4 TIPS - ONE DAY: Probing, Wrenching, and Chamfering - Haas Automation Tip of the Day
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- čas přidán 5. 03. 2020
- Mark digs into his junk drawer to bring you four great tips in this episode of Tip of the Day, and the tips are anything but junk! We're sure one or all parts of this video will be useful for everyone.
Mark shows a great trick for how to probe 2nd Ops, how to spruce up your parts with a cool chamfering technique, and he solidifies his position as a hex key power user.
Check out the Bonus Content for this video here:
www.haascnc.com/video/Video-B...
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We’ve added some more examples of fancy chamfers, and posted the CAD files to go along with the examples. Be sure to check them out here: www.haascnc.com/video/Video-Bonus-Content.html - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day
Ive had those same colored allens for at least 4 years now. Ive had several people make typical machine shop jokes about them. Now, to my knowledge they all have the same set. Haha, go figure, right? Hey, Canon, aren't those the ones you said you wanted? Uhh. Umm. Uhh.
My best friend is high-end in the mountain bike industry. He's been trying to talk me into some wihi, wera, or pb swiss allens, maybe one day. Every single last one of mine is slightly bent in the high torque direction, but... i know what the pink one fits and the red one... and...
Wiha also does colored btw, as do all brands i mentioned. First world problems, i know...
Well, the diameter of the ball is 5 mm, if I touch the stop from right to left and write X +2.5 in the notation, then I do not need the participation of blanks with ideal parameters. In addition, when the part is clamped, I can zero along two walls along the Y coordinate and indicate the coordinate. At the same time, indicate an offset towards Y- or Y +
Oll
Next time I bury the chamfer tool into the part I’ll remember to say it’s a feature not a fault.
This is what i like about Haas. The interaction with social media and the community they have created.Another reason to buy a Haas.
A dovetail type vice with talon grip vice jaws, a write on anything marker from the dollar store (works on oily surfaces), a 6 inch piece of bent steel strapping as a parallel keeper, ***venturi type coolant mixer!!***, a telescopic magnet, a rolling oil tray under my chip container to catch coolant and a boss that’s away on vacation. These are a few of my favourite things. Oh, and we must not forget the Kureg.
Have to agree with everyone else with a good set of calipers. Since I purchased my first set of digitals it has been a life changer.
Shars has a good caliper and water resistant for a good price I paid 120 for 12" caliber
something I bought that I really appreciate is a holster for my calipers. I cant tell you how much hassle this has saved me.
czcams.com/video/1tpyf5o9H20/video.html I used to my caliper holster every day on the shop floor :)
You can talk about anything at all. Just keep the tips coming.
Bill Kellogg I agree!
A few things I've picked up:
First is get yourself a solid 123 block, one without holes in it.
Second is to have a 3/8 Allen socket, the shallower the better to use your fingers to remove/install screws and then the Allen wrench to tighten
Third, I recommend you to get yourself a drill and socket for opening/closing the vise, super helpful during set-up when you may be opening/closing it a few times to remove jaws or align soft jaws.
Fourth is a total nicetie but it's to get an electric ratchet, this is what I use to install/remove the bolts on vice jaws and things because it's just much faster.
Hopefully this helps someone out there! Great video as always
Hi Mark,
Great video, as always.
Items I keep very close to the machine: Sharpie, a toolholder with a tenth indicator (for sweeping bores or lining up the vise), a tape measure, a ⅞” combo wrench for clamps or vise hold-downs, a 3” “ThinBit” scale I grabbed from their booth at a trade show, an electronic calculator with basic functions, and a 1” gage block, and of course a 1-2-3 block.
If I flip a part that is too thick to fully profile from one side and left-over material is going to interfere with probing, I just hold the 1” gage block up against the side of the machined surface and probe the gage block, then add or subtract the 1” from the offset.
Keep up the great work, and see you at IMTS!
Great video Mark.
The Wiha Ergostars are also available in a coloured version as well as the silver - they even glow under UV light to make them easier to find. Best of all worlds. They have a MagicRing option too to hold onto the head of a screw so it can't fall off. I should be on commission ! Your channel is superb.
I'm going to practice spinning my allen wrenches now to impress my students.
I fly cut my part to the finish thickness about an inch wide path that gives me room to measure with mic on the X side of the work stop. Then without taking part out of vise since I've established my Z on size and I know the perimeter of the part is square. Then I probe the X position for the new X work coordinate. This method also allows me to check and or re-establish Y if needed. Offset all my tools, run part, check it and make any adjustment as needed.
I always learn something from your channel Mark, you make it fun!
Thank you, Mark,Your tips make my life easier
The last trick you showed us at end of the video, made me the day😂 . I did the trick long, long time ago. Now, I am your fan.👏👏👏👏
Spinning an Allen wrench on your finger, tip that's worth the cost of the subscription right there!!!
Great tip with the chamfers.
Hello Mark ! Thank You for Polish subtitles ! You are awesome !
i what like a video about making a chamfer. And also more tips and tricks. Love the contents.
4:54 Is the best Tip of the day so far :)
I really like the Allen sockets with a long flex head ratchet.
Great video as always, may I suggest a video about the G10 code and its advantages, we use it all the time is a great time saver.
Thank you!
Keep an air / electric ratchet with a 3/8 Allen head driver. Makes quick work of changing vise jaws. However, I use a ton of soft jaws in the Kurts. Great vid as usual. Thanks
Terry, you will end with a an oscar 😀 ! Well let's go out try some spinning 😀😀😀
We've ground the ball end of the allen wrench we use for the vise jaw screws down to be quite thin, makes the angles we can get on it greater when using tall or odd shaped jaws.
Also, if you want a cheater bar that's secure, grab a long 3/8" or 1/2" extension from a socket set and deep well socket that's the same size as your allen wrench, and bam, instant cheater bar that won't slip or slide on your wrench.
Top used tools (besides Allen keys and calipers of course) would be my flexhead ratchet with a 10mm hex bit. For swapping tool blocks and jaws out. The flex head is nice because you can break the bolts loose and then use the handle as a speedhandle spin'em out real quick
Always keep a 6" steel scale in my pocket.
Erik A always. :)
And a spare few in the toolbox
Have a coworker that has a small cart of random useful widgets that really help in a pinch.
One of the most used I would have to say is the Craftsman Robogrip pliers/wrench. Handy for when I need to make a quick adjustment on my bar feeder without having to spin the worm gear on regular adjustable wrenches
I love my Robogrip pliers! I have to say that these days I reach for my Knipex adjustable pliers for those kinds of jobs. The right tools really help.
I love using a ratchet and Hex Drive sockets. Though I’m a machinist, a ratchet is probably my most used tool. When it comes too cheater bars, I use a breaker bar and my hex drive attachments. I’ve tried using cheater bars, but for me personally, it’s more of a pain than it’s worth. There are some occasions where I need too use a cheater bar, but if I have an option, I will choose my ratchet and breaker bar.
Tape measure and marker. I work in the tool room of my plant and were always cutting different stock sizes for every part that goes into our machines.
Also we have custom buildup tables on our machines that allow us operators to more quickly set work offsets without using a probe. It’s a table with reamed holes 1” apart from each other in a grid, and we put bolt holes on the back side of our parts in a pre op, so all we do is measure from the machine home to the center of our part while it’s bolted from the underside of the table.
I forgot about a marker! For decades now I’ve carried around a sharpie. So very handy.
Thanks
For probing the unprobable you could also drill a hole close to the contour of OP 1 or mill a slot close to it while still in OP 1. This way you can reach the contour of the part through the hole.
face then probe also an option. Just make sure no burs or chips first
Mark can you make a video about how we can extend our vmc,s preciseness and accuracy over time, how we should use them to have Long productive life for our haas?How long a haas can produce very precise parts and how we can prolong its accurate life like new, I am using a vf4 and very happy with it but the only question I have is this
measure the unmeasureable, probe the unprobeable, row row fight the powah
We have many issues probing up parts due to the shapes of them. So we press slip guages up against and probe against the slip and input the datum minus the slips dimension.
muy bueno. !!!
My ratcheting deburring tool from Shaviv is a game changer
I keep a 3/8 hex bit on a 3/8 drive ratchet. It really speeds up vise jaw changes.
For my part I use my indicator a lot.
When I got a piece that I can't probe i put my indicator on take a 0 on the side of the clamp and transfer it with a precise measure from my indicator and the cnc monitor
love my wihas
Wiha makes several sets of very tiny screwdriver/hex/torx drivers in a case with 1 handle to hold them..nice tools.
Had to take jaws on and off nonstop, ditched allen wrenchs for harbor freight 3/8 In. Air Ratchet Wrench. makes taking bolts in and out fast and easy, and can still use it as a normal ratchet w/o air. Just make sure bolts and threads are always clean so you dont strip anything
Even better is Milwaukee makes an M12 cordless 3/8 drive ratchet that works awesome for swapping jaws and if you have a 3/4 socket handy it makes running vises open and close a breeze
My Fav. Chamfer is a 3 flut from Dixie ( can really recamend it )
My 2 fav. Tools in my box is foam cheats so I have a soft safe and chip free place to put my parts quicky without scratches and the other one is some thine bend spring steal shims witch is use to keep the parrales in place well changing parts ( works like a charm if you don't open the vise much more then takeing out the part. But give it a good bend and then sques it really well ( so it goes to about 1/6 of it's bend size at minimum or even so it goes flat)
The ultimate set: move the color coded allen keyt to the WIHA holder. 😉
I have the same allen key sets from wiha for years,.. :)
Can you move the color coded allen wrenches into the Wiha case?
Yes
I’m here for the last tip
wiha also has allen wrenches with snap rings on the ball end so it captures the fastener youre tightening.
😂 I always impress ppl at work with spinning my Alan wrenches
The tools I use the most. My calipers and my electric impact gun.
How else do you run the jaws in and out quickly from 2” to 9”
And the last tip is the best tip
Sicktrickintuner thanks. Check out www.haascnc.com/video/Video-Bonus-Content.html. We created some more examples, and tossed in a CAD file - Mark
Lol. I thought you were talking about the chamfers, but now I’m guessing you were talking about the wrench spin..
Ive heard that wasnt a great idea, so i bought a cheapo 3/4" socket, a speed wrench from HF... Works great, and i never have to worry about the batteries..
Machinist 72
Ive got 3 batteries around for all my cordless tools.
Set on a low setting it gets it hand tight, like about 20ft lbs then i can finesse and use a wrench after to get it exactly where i need
I got a pipe for my allen wrenches because one time my wrench slipped and I cut off 3/4 of my knuckle on the corner of a sharp aluminum jaw I just recently milled down.
1 inch gauge block and torex interchangeable tip screw driver
wouldnt it just be easier to program this off the stop and stationary vise jaw from the get go? also, if the next op is to face off the excess, you could just have a bigger tool path to expose your walls, and then probe it.
i used to use a 3/4 wrench as a cheater because i have about a dozen of them for beaters and would usually leave a couple at every machine. lately i've just been using sockets for everything because i've been trying to get in the habit of using a real torque for everything, took me a long time to succumb to the fact its a much better way of doing things for consistency and not stripping things out. most useful tool i have is a 1" square 7" long brass drift. use more than anything.
that chamfer tip is slick, going in my bag of tricks for sure.
I teach the 123 block method for the Op2 - I think I may have to do probe the stock and do some math and probe the "plane" the 123 block and compare accuracy. Op1 is so easy - but now we have to be accurate and repeatable on Op2.
I bought silver for metric and black for inch. common problem mixing up or losing wrenches. I was the only one going around putting every think back in its place. I use 1/2 NPT pipe from plumbing for cheater bars
when we do hand g code I show how to use same contour path for chamfer - with my 50/50 method. Z-.05 and D #-.05 in Radius geo
( we use radius comp). copy tool path and edit as needed.
hey any stats on how many people use D comp as a Diameter or as a radius ? Our 1980's shops all did radius
Ed D
Instead of a cheater bar, I use a 3/8 drive ratchet and a short hex driver.
That's what I usually use too. That and Bondus ball tipped drivers with a screw driver type handle. But I do use cheaters on occasion with standard L wrenches. It's nice to have options.
I use the box end of a smallish wrench.
i have a cheap right angle impact i use to spin vices open and closed, and i also drilled and tapped the cap screws for the vice jaws so i can have smaller fixturing or angle jaws which i can then screw into the screws, that way you never have to worry about them moving like they can with rubber bands or getting chips behind them or whatnot
That's a great idea about tapping the screws, thanks!
@@gmarco98248 no worries. i still keep my best tricks secrets, like how to twirl an allen wrench around your finger the other way.
If you don't have a stop for the part... what we do is probe the hat or stock in the xy and leave like .030 radial. Then we reprobe and this leaves enough clearance to get the part without hitting the hat or stock.
mark is proper old gunslinger
The allen wrench spinning got the like ans sub lol. Just because we use massive and possibly dangerous tools, does not make us adults bahahaha
I'm still waiting for you guys to release that flexing probe tip in the video.
Daniel Machado - Brazil
When is there gunna be a probe program to get us close to getting a vise 90?
3:00 I have one of those in my box but it kind of looks like a ratchet.
I use a magnetic base with an indicator a lot.
Need that red dykem daily 🤣 I don't scrap parts I make set up pieces
Flying Allen wrenches in the workshop later 😂😂😎
On cheater bars - try to get sometging like a piece of 1/2" bore, heavy wall alum tube, becuase you'll damage it more likely than the wrench - mine is cut just a bit shorter than the inside of the drawer it sits in👍😉
Do form taps tip of the day
i just bought a 18in ratchet and a set of hex sockets, instead of using a cheater tube
You could have used the prove by proving the stop also because the surface of the part is gonna be against the stop without the part
The head of most screws is not flat or square, though if it is a precision machined head your idea will work fine.
Personally i rim a gage block up Agenst the side then probe on the gage block and then measure the block and subtrakt the block from the measurement ( normally puts me within +-0.01mm witch is fine for face and chamfer )
If mashining after the set up then i just tell it to leave a little bit of stock and reprobe agen when i know it can touch straight on the first mashined Surface
what a poser.. i tried it once i i failed spectacually^^
i really like the videos with the little tweeks and twists to get better at an cnc.. greetings from germany
Put the colored wrenches into the Wiha holder...
love the \/
Please help. I have a HAAS 30 lathe. I’m running a 13 inch steel rod turning it down to 1.0659 inch OD. I’m having trouble with .0015 runout to OD (egg shaped) I need to hold a .0003 tolerance Please advise. I’m leaving .020 for the finish insert
Goon 88 I would reach out to your local HFO, they can look at the issue from both the Service and Applications side of things and get you up and going quickly.
You probe the X axis , but how to probe the Y (on that part) ?
Boris Laki we can probe the 1-2-3 block in the same way, or just probe the face of the back vise, for this part.
That intro had some TOT vibes
The most valuable tool I use has to be my calipers, mostly because I am reverse-engineering things to fit an existing item.
Calvin Witt and doubles as a wrench in a pinch 😉
Just put the coloured Alan keys in the wiha case??
Dan Hyde Mind. Blown. Thx.
Mark must have been a drummer in an 80's hairband!!
Daniel LaChance No, he wasn’t, but he plays the piano/keyboard, guitar, and harmonica and actually caries a pretty good tune!
Sculele potrivite pentru ce faci
which program do you use im a student and i currently use fusion 360 , is it ok? do you recommend any other cad/cam ?
I'm pretty sure they use Mastercam
The program for this video was Mastercam. We have so many people at the factory, there is a bit of everything.
We have lots of engineers and machinists learning CAM with Fusion 360. And we have quite a few using Mastercam, HSM Works for SolidWorks, Gibbs, Esprit, CamWorks and hyperMILL.
I tend to bounce around a bit between CAM systems, depending on the project - which isn’t the best way to get good at something.
HSMWorks is rumored to be discontinued (as a plugin for Solidworks) , so don't too heavily involved with that software. Unless your shop is dedicated to running Fusion360, and be at the mercy of their cloud storage.
We use Solidworks for CAD, and had just started training guys in HSM Works, but now we are trying to get everyone switched over to CAM Works, and it's a mess with all the different CAM files floating around the server. Choose wisely.
Alright thanks guys
sincere question: how repeatable is the position with such a stop in the vice?
SoWeMeetAgain I think a lot of it comes down to the operator. Certainly within .0005”/.013mm, but a solid operator can hold tenths, if he is locating against the datums.
@@markterryberry4477 that's quite a lot imo, btw by tenths you mean tenths of a thousandths of an inch?
@@SoWe1 "tenths" is always .000x
If you aren't slamming parts against the stop or forgetting to wipe your parallels, you can easily hold tenths. The gorillas that try to make everything about speed, ruin parts and waste time.
Some stops are more rigid than others, but bt placing the part flat against the fixed jaw first and gently sliding the part to the stop you should be able to repeat pretty well. The torque on the vise will affect positioning more. If you need the best possible accuracy on every part you might need to probe every one of them.
Indicol and an interapid indicator
MCEngineeringInc I like my indicol and Interapid. Definitely in my top 20.
OP
Its Friday, and now I must w8 until Monday to use the allen trick!
Why wouldn’t you just probe the stop (provided its precision) and the fixed jaw, instead of adding a 123 block?
In this case, the part-stop is the head of a Bolt. We wouldn't be able to probe the exact high-spot on the bolt perfectly, with our round probe tip, so we had to load up a surrogate part, a 1-2-3 block. We could have probed the back jaw (non-movable jaw) though, and picked up our Y-axis just fine that way. - Mark
cool 3d
круто
Sometimes I feel like the best tool I don't have would be a cup holder 😅
6:18 this is a 5 axis part... Lol
Haas has made previous videos about the steps to machine this part, it actually a 3 axis part
This particular part does have a compound angle pocket/hole in the face, but I know that’s not what you’re talking about. I was just thinking about the chamfer itself, making sure that folks realized just what you said, that it was a simple 2d XY chamfer, not some fancy swarf cut. You saw it right away, I was surprised how many folks couldn’t recreate that chamfer, which is why we put it in the video. Thanks for the comment. - Mark
I laughed a little too hard at 0.13 seconds....
heres a life hack, get common ones in t handle form,
Favorite Tool = Renishaw Probe 😂😂😂.....so convenient an Engineer can use it 😂😂😂😂
Why not probe vise? And your block becomes unnecessary.
Владимир Яркин probing the vise works great for the Y-Axis. For the X-Axis stop, you can not accurately probe the head of the bolt we are using as a part stop, so a surrogate part (1-2-3 block) works well.
@@markterryberry4477 But setting up real part after surrogate part will be with some error by X axis. And if I'll probe centre of surrogate part (by Y axis) and centre of bolt head, the errors will be approximately the same.
Color coded Allen Keys? Okay.
I just have to say, the aerospace shop I work for has banned Allen wrenches and cheater bars! It's absolutely ridiculous!
Adal Cardenas we’ve banned all Crescent wrenches. Too likely to strip bolt heads or give uneven torque.
Sounds like some gorillas in the shop grunting everything tight. We have a guy that hammers on vise handles to tighten them, and to tighten ER16/32 collets. I wish they'd doc his pay for everything he breaks, he'd have to get another job right quick.
I hear you guys, shops banning essential tools just because one guy has no clue what he's doing. With me the problem is that we've switched to dedicated fixtures that were designed to work with Allen wrenches. It makes it nearly impossible to do your job right.
Așa că în meseria mea comparativ cu foarte mulți italieni de mine cunoscuți sunt de nivel înalt nu foarte înalt pentru că tot ce am învățat a fost tot timpul în 5 minute.
Sir please tell us about your secret.
You cut da swarf
And these tricks will help you make a crappie living in this under paid trade!