6 Levels of MICROTONES (in Video Game Music)
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- čas přidán 8. 05. 2024
- Patreon: / cadencehiramusictheory
Let's talk about Microtonality, and the different interesting ways it has appeared in video game music! MUSIC THEORY
00:00-00:35 Intro
00:35-04:39 What is Microtonality?
04:39-07:24 Level 1
07:24-09:31 Level 2
09:31-13:05 Level 3
13:05-16:16 Level 4
16:16-22:19 Level 5
22:19-25:44 Level 6
25:44-26:07 ANNOUNCEMENT!
26:07-27:03 Outro
HUGE MEGA THANKS to Alpha Something for the mini interview, go play Venba!
Special thanks to mtt59 for Red Dead Redemption footage and June Lee for video brainstorming help in 2021.
Also if you're here about the * in the Just Intonation section, technically the 7:4 dominant 7 only appears in "7-limit" Just Intonation, whereas the most common version that is used is "5-limit". 5-limit refers to the fact that all of the ratios have only factors less than 5, which is why the dominant 7 chord in 5-limit just intonation is 9(3x3):5. The 7:4 dominant 7 chord sounds so cool because of the mathematically clean oscillations between the 4:5:6:7 and the precedent in the harmonic series; you can hear the ringing of the higher overtones. As for why 5-limit is common and not 7-limit, it's probably because the cleaner factors creates cleaner nodes and avoids weird prime numbers. I have no idea to be honest, this stuff is getting to be way over my head. Anyways, it's possible that Shoptimus Prime (the barbershop quartet) was not intending to hit the 4:5:6:7, but do take a listen to how flat the 7th in the "for" chord is, it's almost D at that point. Just some cool tuning. Obviously not perfectly perfectly in tune even if they were consciously trying to hit the 4:5:6:7, but still cool. Also fun fact that I didn't have a chance to include in the video, the entire tune is ~40 cents flat from A=440! Try playing piano to the tune :) Also to the 14 people who read this gigantic nerd ahh paragraph, comment "yippee just intonation" or something
Tunes used:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Bandcamp: cadencehira.bandcamp.com
Soundcloud: / cadence-hira
Clarifications:
1. As a few people have pointed out, alternate 12-TET tunings (i.e. A=432) are NOT commonly considered to be microtonal! I included it in this video for 3 main reasons: a) In the context of Bloodstained, where some of tracks are in 440 and some are in 432, it is possible to hear the microtonal discrepancy in the tuning between tracks that crossfade into each other. I would consider this usage microtonal! b) People with absolute pitch are able to hear the difference between different tunings out of context, and that is at least worth addressing as the weakest example of "microtonality" (432 relative to internal sense of 440). and c) culturally in the "west", 440 is ubiquitous and is ALMOST ALWAYS bundled with 12-TET. the most common exceptions include: orchestra tunings, i.e. Japanese orchestras tune to 442 iirc, and the 432 tuning in things like Bloodstained, as well as sample rate differences for the sake of timbre (as was the case for Redbone). I felt that talking about non-440 tunings as "Level 1" was important to the context of microtonality in a cultural sense, as common western workspaces don't provide intuitive, robust ways of breaking out of the 440 12-TET frequencies. If you still disagree with 440/432/tuning being discussed in a microtonality video, that is completely ok! Discourse and discussion is music theory is GOOD and is what drives the development of the ever-changing definitions of concepts, as it's only retrospective analysis of ever-changing music and cultural contexts.
2. Arthur Morgan was NOT building that house with his buddies, it was actually John Marston. I didn't play RDR2 and instead read a brief synopsis on that part of the game, that is my bad lol.
a. I would not consider that usage microtonal!
@@made.online2149 totally fine :D
I'm a bit sad you didn't talk about 31EDO
@@familiarstranger9617 couldn't find any 31-EDO tunes D:
@@CadenceHira Zheanna Erose and Levi McClain have some videos talking about it but I've not found anything about peices of music in 31EDO present throughout modren or ancient history
All music is microtonal if you don't tune your instrument like a nerd
my favorite type of comment
ye
Ah yes, the classic all _ is _ if you're not a nerd joke
The sound of middle school band class. Brings a tear to my wincing eyes
it's still going to be microtonal, u can't tune it to exactly 440, it will always be smth like 440.07 or 439.88
actually, it isn't just k.k. cruising! all of k.k.'s whistling is sharp, in all of his songs. they changed it in new horizons to be the same as his singing and guitar, so it isn't clear if the microtonal whistling was by design, or a mistake that they corrected.
I'm so glad I wasn't the only who could hear it through all his songs! Yay, I'm not crazy!
bruh
@@BenthovenMusic its always driven me nuts 😅 youre not alone!
I think it’s a very intended effect to make it sound more human (or dog?). To me, something is missing in that example she shows, where everything is in tune; it sounds artificial. Making the whistling sharp all the way through is a simple way to make it sound less perfect, the way people usually whistle. But indeed, it was maybe a bit too much for our tempered ears
i would assume it was accidental, cause soundfonts/ libraries back then would be somewhat out of tune anyways. it's probably just that we're used to whistling not being quite in key
I think the k. K. whistling is a nod to whistlers not being in tune a lot. Like a lot of people whistle when they are at home and it sounds absolutely horrible
I love whistling at home and I hope it sounds good 🥺
The weird thing about whistling is that it doesn't really have any overtones, so it can't ever really be "out of tune" with itself, only relative to some other sound that does have overtones.
It gets even weirder when you consider things like metallophones, which DO have overtones, but don't conform to the harmonic series. This opens the door to all sorts of weird (but consonant) music that you can't play on a piano. (even if you tune it to the same notes)
@@Dayanto I think out-of-tune whistling would mean melodically (one way to be out of tune with yourself) or harmonically like the K. K. example. It does bring up though that equal-tempered instruments, unless they're pure sine waves like whistling is (or nearly), are all timbrally out-of-tune with themselves all the time. That's why the just intonation harmony has that clear "ringing" quality, all the overtones are in tune with the fundamental harmony. I agree, pitched sounds with inharmonic overtones are really interesting. I always think of church bells. I've seen the word "xentimbres" used (by Sevish, anyway).
I didn't know that just intonation was the reason why barbershop sounds the way it does, but it's super cool. One thing I wish you'd touched on in the video was how the historical use of just intonation led to the idea of different keys having their own character and feeling, which was a result of certain keys feeling more or less "in tune" because of the way that just intonation works, which just doesn't exist in the same way with modern equal temperament tunings.
It wasn't necessarily just intonation that led to the idea of key colour - which itself was apparently a somewhat disputed concept in its time - but rather it was meantone tuning principles, where the syntonic comma of 81:80 was split across the 12 keys in various ways, depending on the tuning system. Interestingly enough, in contemporary microtonal theory the varieties of meantone tunings - quarter-comme, third-comma, sixth-comma etc. - have been generalised as a concept known as "diamond tradeoff", as they rightly are a microtonal idea in and of themselves.
I think you're thinking of other tuning systems. Well temperaments (as in The Well-Tempered Clavier), and before that meantone, had that property.
In JI, esp as used in choral music, people do their best to transpose intervals perfectly afaik, but I'm not a professional chorister
14:34 idk why but the single measure of 1/8 had me dying
My headcannon is that the person who made the song added one too many notes by accident, making it a measure of 9/8 instead of 4/4
It is an extra note- the way it's added creates a deceptive cadence- especially with the train beat from the drums, it makes the next few bars sound upbeat until the percussion drops out soon thereafter and we are returned to the loping downbeat phrasing
Thanks for the shout out Cadence! Great video as always 😊
It's him
The man the myth the legend himself
Please make a video of microtones
@@planetoforts he did
the Pikachu exploding jumpscare into microtonal Megalovania around the 16-minute mark is a true combo
pleaseeee help me out here, what was that tune that pikachu was playing?
@@philb2972Pretty sure it was “Under the Sea” from The Little Mermaid
As someone with perfect pitch, I actually love when the tuning of an entire song is off. It makes it sound so alien. Miss me with songs that have been transposed though.
Just saw one of my fav bands on their 20 year tour. All their songs were transposed down to make to singable. It was almost unbearable for me.
Get help guys. This is why people say perfect pitch is a mental illness :D
@@asukalangleysoryu6695 i'd like to think anyone would notice their favourite songs being in an entirely different key thooo
@@icespicefanboy2879 yes. i intentionally transpose songs when i get bored, because it gives them new flavor every time i do
@@asukalangleysoryu6695When people are envious of my perfect pitch, I tell them they really shouldn't be. It's way more detrimental than it is helpful.
Re: Help with Microtones
Hi Cadence,
Yes, 22-EDO all day long!
Sincerely,
Wil Wheaton
LOL hi sevish
mwah, i love you sevish
You are my favorite! ❤ love from USA
We love you! Sevish!
Your music is like an exotic beverage that you get addicted to and spend all your cash on /pos
yippe just intonation
Also the microtonal "Sadness and Sorrow" at the end made me laugh so hard 🤣🤣🤣
For anyone curious about those Gizzard Wizards and their microtonality, i'd recommend Honey from their album KG, or Rattlesnake from their Flying Microtonal Banana.
Flying Microtonal Banana is just full of bangers in general.
Im into microtonality but i still want to say 12edo isnt exactly arbitrary, it just achieves one specific goal. When you stack 3/2 and reduce the ratios you get from that to be within 2/1 first you get... well technically first you get a 2:3:4, after that you get something akin to the familiar pentatonic scale, then diatonic(with the major third tuned sharp and minor third flat, and fifth exact), and after that you get a 12 note scale(mind you these are just the sizes at which there are only two step sizes and theres only one unusual fifth[generator more broadly, you could stack anything], its called a MOS but that is a whole bag of worms) this would be pythagorean tuning. If you flatten the fifth you can get the thirds closer to 5/4 and 6/5 and this is generally what various tunings of meantone do. These are systems that were used in western music long before 12edo became standard and the main goal is/was essentially to get 4:5:6, 12edo does this quite well for its size, of course theres issues with the major third being quite sharp but you would have to go up to 19edo to fix that and then the fifth would be flat, 31edo seems to be the most common alternative but now you have 31 notes to deal with compared to 12.
17edo goes the other way and the fifth is even sharper along with the major third which some think of more like a 9/7 or 14/11, but it does give you a neutral third(which may be one of the types of intervals that blue notes are aiming for)
You could also stack alternating 5/4 and 6/5 to get whats called zarlino or ptolemys intense diatonic, this also extends to 17 notes(with 3 step sizes this time) but doesnt have a pentatonic form(though you can find one in it)
Some alternative things you could use that can still reach semi familiar territory in an unfamiliar structures are porcupine in which you stack something in between one third of 4/3 and half of a minor third of your choice such as 6/5 or something nearby which gives you 7 and 8 note scales(and 15), theres also mothra or gorgo(maybe also called slendric) which is basically stacking something like 8/7 or a third of a fifth (im fond of 25/22) to make a 5 note scale and an 11 note scale which can get you close to having 3 4:5:6:7 or in sharper tunings more like a 6:7:9(idk what the seventh would be), both of these coincedentally have nice tunings in 37edo
Also personally i dont think of alternate fundamentals as microtonal, it is something people should take advantage of but it doesnt actually give you any new intervals all the relationships are the same within the tuning.
That all said i don't spend much time with these simpler ratios, ive spent a long time wrestling with 16edo along with mavila/antidiatonic which is shaped kinda like diatonic except the fifth is so flat that it generates a minor third before the major third and so all the major thirds and minor thirds are swapped but if thats all it was it wouldnt be much to wrestle with, the semitones become supermajor wholetones(like 8/7[the inversion of 7/4] but probably something rougher) which means the minor seventh is something like 7/4, and the wholetones become neutral seconds like 12/11 which also means the major seventh is replaced with a neutral seventh and the major ninth is also neutral instead, which certainly takes some getting used to(well some people seem to take to it quicker) i like the seventh and ninth better than the second personally but its growing on me. You can get this by stacking something like 40/27 or 28/19.
exactly. basically its no tuning has better fifths until you get into the 40’s.
@@IsaacMyers1 29edo has one thats slightly closer but a little sharp, but not closer by much
As some who understands literally NOTHING about music other than on a piano middle C is in the middle, this was delightful to read
Damn, after reading this, I wonder how good your grades in Math are lol (mine aren't 🥲)
Wad this is the part where you realize you just wrote an entire script for a video and should make a video reply instead of leaving an essay in the comments >__
probably my favorite example of level 3 or “micro-polytonality” in vgm is the song “mysterious trap”from kirby triple deluxe, it’s mostly in standard tuning but uses a bunch of detuned instruments to create a really strange and unique atmosphere. awesome video btw!
2:56
I think it's important to mention that a plausible reason why 12-EDO was favored is because it approximates the first few harmonics pretty well. Intervals using the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, and 15th all match pretty closely to 12-EDO, something that not all tuning systems can do. Imo the biggest disadvantage of 12-EDO is that the 7th 11th and 13th harmonics aren't approximated very well so we have some completely valid tonalities missing from our system.
It's worth noting that the 5th harmonic is 15¢ out of tune, which carries over into the 10th and 15th harmonics, and shows up in a number of common intervals such as the major and minor thirds (5/4, and 6/5), major and minor sixths (5/3, 8/5), as well as some more unusual ratios such as 9/5, and 10/9.
All of these are relatively simple 5-limit intervals, so it's not just the higher harmonics that are a problem.
Cadence, your videos are some of the absolute best on this site. Not only are you really great at making these concepts understandable and easy to follow for people with limited knowledge of music theory, your asides and jokes are actually genuinely funny and charming. Such an awesome and underrated channel!
microtonality (especially poly-microtonality) is so cool. I feel like people should experiment much more with these inside more pop-oriented genres. It seems like the majority of it is contained in contemporary classical/experimental music in the west:(
I think modern pop music is even more restrained than classical music. Classical music at least takes full advantage of its tonal system.
@@cosmicspacething3474op is saying the opposite. They agree, just reiterating that they want to hear pop incorporate microtonality. Or, make it less restrained. Op should have said contained instead to be more clear
your feelings are irrational
@@unknown6390 just saw it. That's correct
wake up babe new cadence hira video just dropped
bazinga
Nice video. I kinda wish it also discussed other ways of dividing up the octave, like 19TET or 31TET. Ok it's probably not possible to find examples in game music, but it would be neat to discuss it a little & help dispel the idea that 12TET is anything other than what we've become accustomed to.
trees in the depth of the earth mentioned pog
love your videos! the pacing and lil easter eggs everywhere are a treat for my tiktok brain. yippee just intonation!!
your feelings are irrational
@@Fire_Axusyour ration is overflowing
yippee just intonation (also you wrote perfectly twice in the description lol) (also great video) (also never heard of microtonality before, but it’s super interesting)
when the tones are micro
As usual, such a great video with an awesome overview of the approaches/areas list and enough depth to each of them. Bravo!
I was playing around with the middle eastern VST pack in Kontakt, and one of the scales was Rast, and I immediately went "hey, this is the scale that Trees in the Depths of the Earth uses!". I'm glad to hear you talk about it. It's such a fun scale with that "almost-major 3rd" sound.
Yippeeee just intonation!!! Your videos are amazing, this in particular deserves +1M views, at least I learned a lot! I will definitely support you in Patreon soon
For all you maths nerds out there, N-TET can be defined as 2^(n/m) where n is the note number relative to whatever key centre you've chosen, and m is the number of notes in the octave. 12-TET then is 2^(n/12), and 1¢ is 2^(1/1200). Just to show how this works, assume A=440Hz, moving 12 notes in 12-TET you have a ratio of 2^(12/12):1 which is just 2:1. To get E (the 5th of A), it's 2^(7/12):1 ≈ 1.4983:1, _not quite_ the 3:2 (or ratio/factor of 1.5) of just intonation and results in E ≈ 659.255Hz. You can also calculate the ¢ difference between any 2 notes with 1200*log2(f2/f1), where f is the frequency OR the ratio/factor, so if the 5th in just intonation is 1.5 and a 5th in 12-TET is 1.4983, 1200×log2(1.5/1.4983) ≈ 1.955¢
Disclaimer: This was written at 4am, so pls forgive me if everything is totally wrong and completely unintelligible lmao
Also, I'm leaving out ridiculous amounts of decimal places for obvious reasons 💃🏽
I'm a novice when it comes to music, but my partner played the violin through most of his childhood; so had a strong aversion to microtones.
I like to listen to, among other things, contemporary jazz. And one of the first song I sent him was Mr. P by Philipp Gerschlauer. He asked me if it was a cruel joke and couldn't bear listening to it for more than 5 seconds.
I'll have fun pointing this stuff out to him :)
Great videos! Just found your channel not that long ago, it needs to blow up! Really fantastic stuff 🎉
I have watched a couple of your videos already and really enjoyed them! But a little while ago I discovered that you worked on some music for A Dance of Fire and Ice which is one of my favorite games ever!
Me waiting for the section about every toby fox song
ME TOO 😭
How are these videos so high quality without you being wildly popular. You are actually immaculate.
Niche-ass topic
ive been listening to a lot of microtonal music lately so its cool to see this drop! ive found myself a big fan of your videos recently too and this just further solidifies it :)
microtonality, music theory, and video games?! heck yeah sign me up
Last semester I wrote a research paper on the topic of different tuning systems, so while it was neat to be able to understand everything in this video, I really wish this video would have been posted while I was doing my research because of how informative and well researched everything was. Great job at making microtonality easily digestible :)
wow i love this channel and these videos!!! they are so engaging and easy to watch, and i always learn so much!!! please keep making themmm!!!!!!!!
This really shows how much pitch material there is that is overlooked. I would also like another video on different tuning systems in video games for different EDO systems.
I've specifically done level 1 in a type of meme piece. It does the whole "in different composer's styles" thing, and I felt like the key was getting a bit old. So I tuned one of them to be closer to more common tunings at the time of the composer.
your channel is one of my favorites automatically
I love your videos more than any other music theory videos I've seen. The time signature video really helped me understand that subject better for use in my own music.
The combined just intonation and 12-TET is gorgeous. It feels super nostalgic, like an old twangy piano😌
Another banger video tackling complex topics and an informative, fun, and digestible way.
Wheeeewwww you’re back! Great video as always. That microtonal Brazilian Naruto is a vibe🤣
Also hi @Brandon hahaha
You are gifted beyond belief!! I absolutely love the niche of video game music theory. This is one of my favorite videos ever, and your content helps me experience the things I love in a new way
As someone studying ethnomusicology (the study of music as it pertains to culture, particularly music outside of Western classical music), knowing about different ways of tuning or dividing the octave.
I'm a composer for a Skryim mod team that's set in a non-Western region of Nirn, and we're trying to incorporate traditional tunings systems from the real-world cultures being drawn from into our soundtrack. It's a ton of fun! I can't share anything, yet. Hopefully soon.
E half flat minor has such a different character over that standard tuning! It has to be intentional, honestly, it’s just so characterful and human. It makes sound like whistling, actual whistling, instead of what the regular tuning whistling sounds like: a synth.
I remember loving the irregular time signatures video, so seeing this video recommended was a treat, and I've been wholly convinced to subscribe!
GREAT video! If you ever want to notate -TET’s or -EDO’s in sheet music I know the best way to do each one through transcription and ear training practice. Also, you can notate Just Intonation with a system called “HEJI” which is used nowadays all over
that microtonal cheap ass disney plushie but unlocked a memory i didnt know i had. awesome video!!
I appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge with us in ways that are easy to understand and taking the time to provide multiple examples, in a sea of garbage "content" its good to see thoughtful stuff still being made that is a labor of love.
One thing that I really like about microtonal music isn't the "blue notes" that make it sound dissonant, but the way it sounds consonant while subtly using non 12edo notes, so then when there's a large modal change you go from vibing to a soundscape to going "woah wait a second".
I've been looking into microtonality across several genres, such as jazz where the 7th in a dominant chord is lowered significantly and 2-5-1s becomes ii submi7 -> V dom7 -> I ma7 or et cetera, and how the common modal changes become a lot more explicit. What's really suprising is microtonality is actually really common in dubstep... to an extent. Some tracks outright have microtonality like phonon - polyriddim changing tunings or barely alive - wompum being 24edo, but a lot of other songs are more subtle and have pitch bends that may be rhythmically divided, similar to the indian cooking game mentioned.
Neutral chords are the most fun thing to make your brain pause in confusion for a minute.
very well researched and edited
In Ocarina Of Time/Majoras Mask you can free play the ocarina/other transform mask instruments to play quarter tones as well as bends using the control stick and other buttons.
I'm certain Zelda has more microtonal examples, thinking of Skull Kid's horn from Twilight Princess, and a lot of the Twilight music in general
Super cool video, looking forward to more stuff like this. Keep it up!
Yippe just intonation!
I clicked on your video by mistake while searching for another video and it was the happiest mistake I made this week haha. For the topic of just intonation, you probably never heard of, but there is a brazilian barbershop group called Quarteto em Cy, and they often do make those small corrections that could be consider just intonation. If you are interested, try hearing to their song "Ponto Final/Alguém Como Tu", at around the 2:45 minute mark, lead tenor sings a phrase that got stuck in my head for days. I am really looking forward to watching more content from you!
Microtonality is a very deep rabbit hole and it can be overwhelming to learn about. So, I think this is a good video because is gives the audience a little bit to consider then forget about but to scratch at the back of their mind. This was kind of what happened to me.
really cool video, glad to see wario land 4 get featured. feel the need to mention i listen to all my music shifted up by 40-50 cents and i love it
The 48EDO is in fact well notated. Actually quite a standard way to do it in contemporary classical music.
15:39 My parents had a candle that played happy birthday when you twisted it.
I learned that if you twisted it slightly, it would play flat, and the high notes were even flatter, as if it was struggling to hit the high notes.
So, I tormented my perfect pitch gifted brother with it on his birthday for years, until it inevitably stopped working.
Great video as ever! Just wanted to mention another interesting use of differing tuning systems alongside the usual 12TET in VGM - In Splatoon 3’s Soundtrack, tracks like Anarchy Rainbow, Surprise and Shine, Anarchy Poisons (Snake Mix), and Daybreaker Anthem have sections which use another tuning (though I’m unfortunately not sure of the exact one) to represent Frye’s heritage for a really cool effect.
yes!!! so few people talk about this and almost all transcriptions i see of splatoon 3 music convert the maqam sections into 12TET
THAT IS SO COOL
I haven't played splatoon 3 so i haven't heard much of the soundtrack yet, but now I'm much more motivated to get it
@@CadenceHira IT REALLY IS
I hope you enjoy it when you get to it, the soundtrack of the game takes on so many different styles and genres while still sounding so unified, it’s honestly amazing.
I'm so glad to see other people acknowledging the fun and creative music in Marble Madness! I grew up playing that game with my dad and we both always loved the tracks. We always made jokes that it sounded like sometbing Emerson, Lake, and Palmer would write lol.
This is so helpful for learning double stops on violin. My teacher can never explain why to sometimes play one string a bit flat, it just “sounds better” but this is why. Yippee just intonation!
You make great videos, that are so high quality and so informative, and you deserve so much praise.
HOWEVER
it’s actually john who builds a house with his friends, not arthur
These are some of the most well versed accessible video essays on music theory I've ever seen!
wow yours videos are amazing! This one is one of my favs
yippee just intonation
as a synth plugin developer i like messing around with exact clean ratios for harmony it's great
In level 5, on the comparison between the just intonation and the 12-TET F7, I found quite the opposite, the 12-TET being pretty clean while just intonation being kinda dissonant and "wobbly" as you described, hearing kind of a beating sound. Also yippee just intonation. Loved the content!
This is an incredible video! I have loved game music and microtones for years but could never find examples of the two together. Your explanation of microtonal concepts is spot on and your examples are great. Microtonal "purists" probably wouldn't consider just a deviation from A=440 to be "microtonal" but it is certainly the first step away from western tuning convention. I've been looking at heaps of microtonality in the west and although there are some great examples in pop-music the real MVPs are the modern musicians and theorists in the Microtonal / Xenharmonic communities online, who continuously pump out some incredible microtonal music and concepts! (yippee just intonation!)
your feelings were irrational
@@Fire_Axus Thanks! I hadn't noticed!
22:08 the only example of just intonation in pop music that comes to mind (and it's a very small one at that) is that the first chord in red hot chili peppers' scar tissue is a major third in just intonation (the b string is tuned down 14 cents to achieve this), so when amateur/hobby guitar players try and play the song on their 12-tet-tuned guitars, it sounds slightly off
very well explained, thank your for showing these examples!
I make microtonal music since 2 years now, it's a really great and informative video, but as you said, all of this isn't even merely scratching the surface of possibilities ;)
Trees in the Depth of the Earth was one of my favorite pieces in all of video games for a long time. I could definitely hear the unison strings parts being played by a 20-piece string section.
On many a retro machine, the synth chips are just dividing down a system clock, so all pitches are approximations, with the notes becoming more and more out of tune as the frequencies go up.
Wow...... its crazy that you notated all of that. I can just imagine myself going insane trying to hear 48TET intervals.......
Much respect for transcribing Trees in the Depths of the Earth. I've been trying to do that for the last couple years and I'm not aware of anyone who's accomplished that yet.
This topic has always been fun to explore, so I really enjoyed this video!
I've noticed microtonality particularly in older Nintendo games. Just a couple I can think of on the spot:
- Kimono Dance Theater theme from Pokemon Gold/Silver
- Overworld theme from Super Mario Bros 2 (the last section before the loop; uses two wave channels to play the same melody but a quarter tone apart, presumably to give it the ragtime piano sound imo)
Really appreciate your channel.
This is a very interesting video and we'll explained! A few more examples at the top of my head would be U.N Owen was her which is tuned to a microtone, or Breakbeat/Jungle music in general.
Thankfully we're seeing lots of microtonal music in the underground scene 😊
Another reason for A 432 is that string instruments in particular sound different when there is less tension on the bridge, giving a warmer sound. Some double bassists actually even do the opposite and tune up to have a brighter and more resonant sound (solo bass tuning)
A=432 is flatearth for physical illiterates
We get all the way through the vid and I'm listening and I'm enjoying being able to understand and hear differences...then the counter point joke comes out and the flashbacks start
props to such a high quality content
A friend introduced me to an artist who goes by "Bent" and released several eclectic albums. As best I recall, his songs are mostly in the key of C, tuned so that C is about half way between B and C with the usual toning. It definitely sounds different to me to hear songs like "Coming Back" and "Silent Life".
So, I am so happy to see you analyze the perspective of the entire WORLD for music theory!!! I agree in the idea that Music Theory is STALE AF
and needs to really let itself become aware of literally anything outside West Europe. Anything... but it is up to us to keep Music Theory alive as a concept despite it's Eurocentric origin and homogeneity. We gotta appreciate everything by adding the ideas of cultures not explored yet and embracing non-traditional music! It is such a beautiful area of basic sound waves that needs to be appreciated so much more and not dismissed as a "primitive, and tribal" kinda thing (blech)
Though I agree with the sentiment, the wording is a bit off, so I interject because that wording is usually what causes endless debates on the internet about the point of music theory.
"Music theory" is just what it says on the label: the practise of studying and describing how a certain music works, in other words building a theory of it.
It cannot be eurocentric because there are as many music theories as there are cultures who practise music. The Natya Shastra from India is music theory, so is the arabic Maqam, etc.
Considering that _music theory_ is a synonym of _classical occidental music theory_ is actually what is eurocentric here.
I really like this. One thing I wanna say tho (probably into the void): the tuning systems that closely approximate the harmonic series have a very deep and intimate relationship with the greatest unsolved problem in mathematics. In summary, there's a million dollars waiting for anyone that can show when zeta(0.5+it)=0, and the tuning systems that are close to the harmonic series are exactly those where |zeta(0.5+ln2/2pi i t)| has a peak
That 'fusion-y composite minor scale' on Trees in the Depths of the Earth that you point out seems reminiscent to me of makam Suznak - consisting of a Rast pentachord underneath a Hicaz tetrachord. Now, in Arabic tuning (which is pretty much just 24-tet, which you seem to prefer here), the Hicaz tetrachord has a major third, not the neutral third that occurs in this song. But in Turkish makam, the Hicaz has a third that is pretty close to a neutral third (though the Rast's third is a little bit brighter, something between a major third and neutral third). Overall I think the song is meant to at least allude to makam Suznak, especially since it is one of the most common modulations when using makam Rast.
Trees In the Depths of the Earth shoutout!!! Finally someone gets it. Such an incredible piece. No wonder it's so insanely difficult to learn on guitar...
my new favorite channel fr
Yippee, Just Intonation! As well as other tuning systems!
If this was your first foray into microtonality, you did a really good job at gathering and understanding the essential info in a short amount of time.
As for why 7-limit* Just Intonation isn't talked about as much by theorists, but still used by barbershop quartets, my guess is that microtonal tuning theorists are often exploring with just the numbers in mind. Stopping at a lower limit is easier. The higher the limit, the more ways there are to arrive at essentially the same interval, and the harder it becomes to choose the one to use.
Barbershop music builds its whole identity specifically on Just Intonation chords with overlapping overtones. The major chord with a 5/4 third and a 7/4 seventh is a pillar of the style, so much that it is referred to as the "Barbershop 7 chord" in the community. Barbershopper really don's care if the music stays inside 7-limit JI, but they do care that the chords ring as much as possible. Analysis has often found that melodies in barbershop are sung close to 12 EDO, with the harmonies filling in the chord in relative JI.
*There is also some nuance to what someone means when using the the term limit in this context. The Xenharmonic wiki has more info: en.xen.wiki/w/7-limit
id never really realized that tune from kirby superstar is microtonal but that makes SO MUCH SENSE! i always knew something was odd about it, at least to my western-attuned ears, but i think because i heard it long before i started learning music, it just never really hit me, consciously, that its not in the common western 12-tet tuning! even tho it obviously isnt 😂
way cooler knowing that the tuning used in that song actually has real life historical basis! i had no idea it utilized an arabic tuning and thats SO COOL!
i love your take on music theory. i just watched your video on weird time sigs and at the end you said "music theory doesnt have rules" or something similar, and i was like, DAMN. IT DOESNT! i think watching that video was the first time i really realized that music theory doesnt explain how things "should" be done, but rather how they ARE and HAVE BEEN done!! especially with your explanation earlier in that video of how time signatures are often applied retroactively... because theyre used to describe the music, not to define or restrict it! idk if thats making sense, but basically i really like how you perceive and explain music and will be watching more of your videos. thank you ❤
Amazing video this is so interesting
yipee just intonation!
your craft is incredible thank you!!
I recently retuned my electric organ (transistor model with 12 potentiometers or inductors inside for pitch) and decided to try quarter comma meantone. It works surprisingly well and the tuning was done in few minutes; i had my laptop giving me some reference notes with audacity and the beat matching can easily be done by ear. But now i have a wolf between g# and eb and i think i want to move than to c# ab instead, but i see why the well temperted tuning eventually took over... It's just so quick and easy to tune the fifths pure and then match the beating by ear (at least for organs).
For those interested in hearing for music that utilizes Just Intonation I can't recommend La Monte Young's 'Well Tuned Piano' enough. Also, if you're not already familiar, please check out the music of Pauline Oliveros, especially 'The Beauty of sorrow" she's an absolute legend. The music of Harry Partch is a must too simply for the fact of how important he developing music theory around just intonation and building instruments to play the music in a western music context. Ben Johnston's string quartets are arguably masterpieces and definitely worth a listen. For more recent music I'm a big fan of Duane Pitre, especially his album "Feel Free." Great video, Cadence, thanks for posting!
Very interesting stuff!
Also yippe just intonation
such great explanations of such nuanced topics, _amazing_ work, had me at the edge of my seat the whole time :) yippee just intonation!!!!!!!!!!
"yippee just intonation" or something
Nice video!
Hell yeah! Great video on a cool topic.
Pitch-matching to the exact cent!? My ears ache just thinking about it. Thank you for your sacrifice.
I really enjoy this channel :)
cadence hira with another banger
I always knew there was something weird going on with that Kirby tune! I played this game so much as a kid and that track always stood out for some reason.
excellent work, well done
Can't believe that rude buster and other Toby fox music wasn't mentioned on here