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- čas přidán 19. 08. 2024
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The reason I love Santana so much is very different from the reason I love other guitar players. And this can really make a difference when you play.
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To me Carlos' playing sounds like premium quality chocolate.
There's something classy behind the simplicity
Santana's "Samba Pa Ti" and "Europa" are masterpieces of sentences that build into paragraphs, culminating in controlled chaos. The melodies are extra plain; no over-decorating with extraneous frills. I'm surprised you chose your Strat-type single coil over that wood-finish humbucker guitar for this. But the lesson was still relevant. Thanks for this.
@@richardlaiche8303 Nothing like being in love with a piece of music you’re trying to learn how to play. What a gorgeous feeling of being moved by piece of music. Santana knows that simplicity is the key to art
Santana has used single coils. He’s used everything under the sun at this point. He still sounds like Santana. There’s actually footage of him playing a prototype Yamaha Pacifica with a Floyd rose bridge.
@@moustachio334 Absolutely, he would sound like himself no matter what on anything. All distinctive guitar players do. I guess I have never heard a single coil sound come from him. But now I know
First songs I learned to memorize Major scale good stuff WINNING
Add Fleur de Lune (Moonflower) and you have a exquisite Trilogy of Carlos' best.
Carlos is one of the best at translating his own internal voice through his guitar. It doesn't matter that it's a guitar. It could be anything. He is a master sculptor of sound.
I’ve loved Carlos since the mid 70s. His connection with john Mclaughlin has deepened my love of his playing. He’s a spiritually oriented person, like John.
I always noticed how Carlos made me FEEL. it didn’t really matter what technique he was using. Flame Sky from the Welcome album, 1973 was stunning. Blues for Salvador 1984 has amazing sound on it. Abraxas 1970 is brilliant. Moon Flower live is amazing.
The difference is his CONSCIOUSNESS. It percolates through his music. As you say it’s his purpose his will his intent is what makes his playing great. His intention is to bring Light and Awakening in the human race.
That’s what I feel.
Nearly wept when you crossed off tone!! Definitely one of the stand out features of Santana. Like you I grew up on all the speed players from the 80's but I've got to say Santana always stood out for me. His phrasing is absolutely incredible, love Schenker for exactly the same reasons. Full Moon and Blues for Salvador are personal favourites but there's an incredible amount of amazing material to choose from.
LOL yes I agree. Santana had a tone I'd not experienced before. It was the first time I heard a guitarist using a very high output amp like a Mesa Boogie but WITHOUT just turning everything up to 11. Aside from tone, Santana is one of my guitar heroes because he conveys an emotion, he tells a story. The best guitar soloists are the ones who use their guitars to really express their feelings. BB King was not a "technical player" in the sense that he couldn't possibly do what the shredders do, but he told a story, he drew his audience into his world, and people loved him for it. Abother example would be Louis Armstrong. Was he the greatest trumpet player ever? I doubt it, but he sure knew how to touch the heart...
Playing from the head vs playing from the heart or soul. You can hear the difference. You did a good job explaining this. It's definitely something worth considering.
Tone is the one thing that always stood out to me in Santana's playing.
Jingo and Soul Sacrifice are constant replays for me in the car
& FEELING & MELODY
Santana also has this unique kind of short separated licks in his solos that almost sound like percussion, almost agressive.
Hello David,
You are absolutely right about Carlos. He puts his heart and SOUL into every note he plays. He once said “never play a note you do not mean from the bottom of your heart“.
Even though I am older than he is, he has influenced me more than anyone else.
Thank you for your wonderful site and the outstanding content and teaching you put in there.
Keep up the good work young man.
Thank you.
David Fortune
Been listening to Carlos since the early/mid 70s but only ever as background soundtrack to whatever else I was doing. My wife came home with SuperNatural and it changed how I heard Santana. Now I appreciate much more his old stuff.
Watched a clip from his Master Class… The thing that I remember the most was him saying “ if you don’t stand like this, look like this ( guitar face ) it won’t sound like this!
Another thing that a lot of people don't realize aobut Santana is that he borrowed a lot of his Dorian style from Peter Green, the original guitarist for Fleetwood Mac. Check out the original recording of Black Magic Woman and The Supernatural by Peter Green
Another guitar player whose spirituality is deeply ingrained in his playing in my opinion would be Stevie Ray Vaughan. You see a natural level of virtuosity that also has a human element to it. I see players on CZcams that show such extreme precision that's almost machine like yet they lack any human feeling or personal reflection of themselves in their music that it's mind dulling. My main point here is that virtuosity is cool to a point until it's a machine like and not human like..
Peter Green is another example of a player saturated with soul. He played with immense economy, focus, and feel, though he could shred if it was the right thing to do. He wrote Black Magic Woman that Santana covered so successfully. Linked below is his fantastic cover of B.B. King's 'I have a good mind to give up living.'
czcams.com/video/IxgY9eEFiYM/video.html
@@Ubu987 absolutely.. I recently came upon them about 2 or 3 years ago never realizing that he was actually Fleetwood Mac and wrote back magic woman among many other great tunes. He out classed Clapton in every way but I guess he just wasn't in the right place at the right time to be that guy. His voice is and timing are absolutely one of the best.
Ray Vaughan is a Hendrix derivative. Allan holdsworth is the most original guitarist since hendrix to the extent he's redefined how to play the guitar
@@pobinr Alan Holdsworth is magic! But you could see Pat Martino as a precedent for his style.
How about David Gilmour or Rory Gallagher or even Robin Ford!
Most of my Friends are Rockers. They never understood My Love for Carlos, Jimi, and SRV. You just put it into Words. These guys sustained notes that literally resonated in my soul, their depth spoke to the serious Listener. These are "Smooth Operators". They Owned their Craft. I pray Carlos stays with us for years to come. Definitely one of a Kind!❤
I grew up listening to Carlos Santana, my dad has the complete albums of Santana every time we go on vacation while driving he would put the Santana songs on the radio and for me as a young kid (I was 10yrs old) it was amazing man..I mean he was amazing on his music..Right now I'm a china base filipino musician and I still listen to him and adore him still.
Beautiful dedicated work behind this video... great stuff... Santana was involved with coltrane ideas... and spiritual connection through music... the intention is part of believing in something
Yes, Santana has a recognizable style. He is one of my favorite guitarists, and he makes his guitar sing. Other guitarists who have a distinctive and recognizable style include David Gilmour, Steve Vai and BB King, among others.
I really appreciate this vid and explanation as it seems to put into words how I feel about my current favorite musician and songwriter, Kanami Tono of Band-Maid. And in particular why I prefer to listen to her songwriting, guitar composition and playing, over the more "pyrotechnic" metal shredders out there. What first caught my attention was how you decribed the "intentional" guitar playing of Santana. This seems very similar to how Ms. Tono describes Santana influence on her playing early on. It really made me wonder whether Ms. Tono had a similar epiphony with Santana as you did. Ms. Tono's compositions and guitar solos have this Santana-like "intent" and purpose to them that for me sets her apart from other songwriters of her generation.
Kanami rules!
Santana and Supernatural came to me whan I was 28. I was into heavy, prog, hard rock stuff and it changed me as a musician and in some ways, as a person. I lowered the distortion to half and I started to play Santana Moonflower, Europe earth is crying, El Farol, and many more, with incense and candles haha was really a mágical time, that made me love fusion and jazz more and more. Gracias mil gracias Carlos !
Welcome to the world of feeling and making the guitar talk , instead of playing what I call running notes , you made it , hats off to you , Alfred NYC / PR
I've seen Santana several times,in 80s and 90s. Always tripping on acid. He and his band are fantastic! It's not flash,it's deeper. ☘️🥂🚬🖤
I never DIDN'T love Santana! I grew up during the time that most of their hits were coming out, and I loved every one of them. I have enjoyed every Santana song that I ever heard, including the more obscure ones. Nobody has ever made a guitar sound sexier than Carlos did in "Samba Pa Ti."
santana is one of my favorite guitarists... his heart and soul come out through his playing...
Great video and so true !
Of course there's only one Carlos Santana, but in my Santana tribute band I try to sound as close as possible to him.
For me he sounded at his best mid 70's on the Moonflower album so I got a Yamaha Sg 2000 and a Boogie Mk1 with the secret tone ingredient, an Altec 417-8h series 2 speaker in it. But although the gear helps a lot....to really sound like Carlos you have to do exactly what you described which is not just play the notes but also FEEL the notes and become one with them by connecting with your heart. And you are right, this works with any kind of music, not just Santana.
I love the thoughtfulness and introspection that you share with your journey as a guitarist
Thank you David for this episode. If you haven't done so, as a Santana fan for 4 decades, please listen (many times over) to the double LP Moonflower and live in South America: Sacred Fire. Moonflower was my spiritual entry into music. Each side took me on a new adventure. Sacred Fire is particularly amazing if you know all the early stuff and you discover this completely new, fresh and energetic vibe. Oh and if you look for a new topic of a video, I think the way how Carlos uses repetition, e.g. on Moonflower's Dance Sister Dance, is something one can learn from and so is the attempt to have a spiritual component in music perhaps started by John Coltrane and picked up by Santana and many others.
I'm also a fan of Moonflower, especially the track Europa. I don't play guitar. I also like a lot of Zappa's instrumental work.
All the devadip stuff
Love devotion surrender
my all time favorite album, and one which stayed in my soul , I started to learn guitar a couple years after I first heard moonflower as a young man and i think it has influenced the way i play, while I will never play like Carlos, I do play like me, as good or bad as it is I play from my soul just like Carlos showed us,,
Awesome David!! Most people don't understand it. But you got it.!!!
I love how you are connecting your videos with your personal history, pretty cool!
Santana got definitely something special, he sings with his fingers!
If discovered Santana back in the early '70s and was hooked straight away. He has hugely influenced my playing since then and and eventually I played lead guitar in a Santana tribute band here in Brisbane, Australia a few years ago. It is very hard to duplicate his style precisely though; he has a curious way of holding the pick and his attack is very non-conventional. One can only try as best as you can and approximate it.
Hi man,
It's 3 AM here in Belgium and what I discovered in your video CZcams suggested to me really makes sense.
For years, I create songs, in French. I bought a lot of top material through the years and, when listening recently to my very old demo tapes, recorded on really basis stuff, I've been impressed by the emotional quality of those simple records.
Thanks to what I just watched, I understand that, when recording/mixing/etc. today, I'm so focused on technical aspects that the emotional intent disappears.
For sure, my next record will be different. Not new, in fact, but back to the emotion.
Many thanks for this!
Great discussion.i m from malaysia.i heard black magic woman when i was 12 in a juke box in a small village in 1971.santana is about feel.the art of sound is all spirit,vibes and frequencies
Carlos at Woodstock is using the first ever Gallien-Krueger Amplifier. Yes, a solid state amplifier!!!
This is probably the most educational guitar lesson ...ever ....but this goes beyond just guitar because you can apply this to any instrument....music is about communicating something..if you have something to say then say it..and if you do you better mean it. THANK YOU
Thanks so much!
Carlos used to cite Dionne Warwick as an influence on his playing; he used to try to replicate her vocals note-for-note on the guitar.
I was 10 in 1973 when my father guided me away from the top 40 songs and gave me Santana's first 3 albums to listen to. With a young musicians mind, I realized right away that Carlos tells stories using the guitar as a tool. I also understood that most of the other guitarists I'd heard were the opposite - they sounded like they were in it just to play guitar. My main instrument today is bass guitar and I make sure that every note I play is performed with 100% intention and emotional conviction.
Probably why the best guitarists that I know suggested that I learn Santana - letting your own soul communicate through the instrument. Thank you & Cheers from Seattle 🍻 Alex
Love you acting out your thoughts like this. I’ve experienced something very similar to what you’re talking about, and I really appreciate your passion mixed with the analytical mind
To me the first time I heard Santana was listening of my mom's old vinyl of Abraxas. That record blew my mind, especially the opening track Singing Winds, Crying Beasts.
It’s great that your musical approach has matured and you’ve come to realize that feel is way more important than technical mastery. Would love to hear your take on one of the ultimate feel players- Jerry Garcia! Have you weaned yourself off of perfection enough to appreciate the subtle genius that is The Grateful Dead?
To me, this “playing from the heart” thing seems more about being in the moment with the emotional connection to give spontaneous intent. I can appreciate what you describe in the video, but think it seems to place emphasis on preparing for a future lick rather than being in the moment “riding the wave” with wide open soul-That is magical, that is what great artists like Carlos Santana seem to be able to do. Try not to overthink it.
there is a difference between pro musicians and amateur when they say playing in the moment. Those greats have study theory into the details so they can forget the rules and play in the moment. Majority, 99% of commenters on youtube guitar comment section who said they play by feels do not. They havent study the rules enough to forget about it.
@@ggh_-ts6pn as Lance said above,, dont over think it,, plug in close your eyes and just play, just let your ears and heart be your guide,,
Great video and nice thoughts. Some of the classic Blues players have that same thing that you're speaking of about Santana. Listen to some old Albert Collins, Otis Rush, or Buddy Guy and I can name several others. It's all about the emotion and feeling that they put into every note when they play. Very dynamic and raw and I think that's the essence of what Santana does.
Could one consider Carlos a blues player? Get the feeling he was heavily influenced by the genre. I suspect he too may have had a meeting at the crossroads..
Every electric player needs to hear the classic blues guys. Like you say, raw emotion.
Carlos Santana is a very Spiritual person. It is not just the guitar and the notes, but it is the Soul... Nice vídeo!😉👍
I first listened to Santana in 1981, i had just left school and had started working, a flatmate had moonflower album and it looked interesting, nice peaceful cover,, i put it on late at night as I went to bed my little record player with a speaker either side of my pillow the first time I had ever heard this music, the journey that that music took me on is still deep in my soul, i didnt realise that you could tell a story with a guitar, that it could make you feel like that, that it could be life changing,, I picked up guitar a couple years later and its been a lifetime journey to express myself with it, but Santana and SRV, and BB king and others showed me the way, just play what you feel, and thats what I do,, its taken a long time but i enjoy what I play now, i dont care if its not how some one else thinks the song is supposed to go, its how I feel i want to play,, in fact i have never bothered to even try to learn a note for note cover,,,
i was jamming with a drummer and bassist when all of a sudden i sounded just like Carlos Santana, and although shocked i kept playing through it until the magic passed. We were recording at the time, and even listening back to it there is no doubt. We can play every note like it is the last, but we must find a way to allow our hearts to shine through our fingers.
A lot of the art of guitar is about pulling the right face, at the right time.
Santana: soulful energy, the spirit of his background, the sound of himself, authentic and original.
Should be mentioned that Carlos is a true gentleman and wonderful human🤗🎈
Useful!!!!!! Santa rocks man that woodstock performance man he become the music just a mad performance.
He's been quoted as saying he took acid before that gig and he thought the guitar turned into a snake as he was playing it. Heavy stuff right there
...if it's true.
I have heard Carlos mention that in interviews before. If you watch the Woodstock movie it becomes apparent he is pretty wasted.
i liked santana since the first time i heard that maria song 😊
something else to note here is that when listening to low volume music ur mind makes a scoop filter eliminating bass and treble, ie it mid boosts in the range of human speech @adam neely has a great video on this (in the context of metal)
Peter Green is the key to Santana's sound and tone. He wrote BMW (Black Magic Woman).
Love, Devotion, Surrender. Shredding meets Fusion. Unbelievable! Carlos Santana andJohn Mc Laughlin
When holidaying in Spain I went to some Flamingo Performances, the passion, expression & feel brought the Music alive, I returned home thinking this is how Music should be played. They made the Guitar Talk, Cry & express emotion..
Thank you very much for sharing the mental experience. I realize on why I could not progress with my playing is because I can not submerge my self into the mental experience that I need to be in. Learning notes by notes and tabs, would not help as much as if I can submerge into the unique experience. Cheers from Indonesia.
When you listen to Santana play, you hear/feel him. He makes sense. When you listen to him talk, he’s unintelligible. His guitar is the voice of his mind, he can’t express himself in words.
Congrats on the discovery!
I'm sure you will enjoy trough the time!
So, as you Said imperfection and perfection, you forgot some I think os essential in Santana's music: The rhythm! There are several touchs and expressions in his music that only the Latin roots can explain... And we levar from that... The mix between rhythm and melody...
I'm a super fan of your work.
Not the biggest fan of Carlos music I respect his playing, but I am a big fan of Carlos the rock star.
I’ve never really heard Carlos say anything that was self centered or showed insecurity he was influenced by most of my favorite blues guitarist. He has demonstrated to me that you can be famous dedicated and passionate and still have a great personality
You discovered music had soul
He has a tonal conveyance of his soul, it’s there. Even when he’s not at his best, when he settles on a few notes, you feel it come through. I just love him for that
It's the Soul. Why did it take you a while to recognize that. He does have technique and most beautiful tone in the world and he playing is so melodic. Why did it take you so long to recognize. His playing is spiritual !
Thank you for posting this video it's been out over a year and I just found it and I appreciate this I'm starting to get your ideas. Justify my creativity. Thank you
I liked his early stuff with the SG special P90s job. He got more "evolved" as a guitar player and musician as was his right but for me the "fire" was gone from his playing and he became Mr Smooth with the posh quilted guitar and endless sustain. He made something unique and beautiful though - how much more does one ask? The ultra-recognisable signature hammer=ons and pull-offs are a real bitch to try and play.
I saw santana the first time here in belgium in november 1973, just after the "welcome" album came out ( only four years after woodstock). He played for three hours ! So for me, that were his best years : Caravanserai, Welcome, Borboletta,........with caravanserai as top of the bill ( waves within, song of the wind, la fuente del ritmo,every step of the way)
I understand exactly what you mean i only just found this myself feel and intent is everything
Thanks for this one, dudemeister...
☝️😎
Inflection is a very hard thing to learn but even harder to teach... you did a great job
I hope this inspires others to feel their way and find their groove👍😎👍
What do you mean by inflection ?
As a singer songwriter sometimes it’s good to just listen to people in the know. No matter how much we learn there’s always more around the corner when it comes to music (ohh by the way I’m just the little guy in the corner )however the difference is listening to professionals is what it’s all about and trying not to go flying down every rabbit hole that appears. This sites good 👍
As an uneducated, non-playing Santana fan, I quite enjoyed your analysis. Music theory fascinates, but still is way beyond me. Still, comparing before and after it was precisely evident how you brought that piece of yours to life through a small change in approach. It even sounded Santana-esque. Carlos is about as passionate a player as they get, and that's a big attraction to many of us. Was a little dismayed when you stated that you found "Supernatural" so great. Then again, maybe to a musician's ear it IS great. To many long-time fans, the 70's was his purple patch. A great era, where artists were exploring and "stealing" from all genres and resultantly creating memorable material.. Enjoying your channel, keep up the good work...
The beauty of Santana records is also due to how the guitar and the rythmic sessions are articulated to create great dynamics. A few examples: the solo in Guajira, from the album, the intro in Black Magic Woman, Incident in Neshabur, Song of the Wind.
Carlos Santana's playing has been very influential to me as a guitarist. Especially his 60s 70s & 80s eras.
David, you felt it right.
Pure Emotion always Trumps technique. Honestly he is the guitar player I listen the most because he is a Bridge to real Spirituality. The guitar is just a conduit to express something deeper/ I can play a good majority of his music but you can never match the Tone or the intent. I end my set w/ Europa or Samba Pa ti because after all the Heavy Rock it's a great counterbalance. Also Santana can really hang listen to Love devotion surrender or Illumination's where he really hits the Universal Tone. There is more going on then what seems at First much more...
I recognize what you said… fortunately my (Latin) mother was playing Santana 70s albums… thus I grew up with instrumental classics like Europa and the great Samba Pa Ti…
This element is why they are where they are at, Gary Moore DEF comes to mind!
I am very happy to see this piece.
He spoke with pure passion thru his guitar. Transcendence off Moon flower if that isnt one of the best examples of a story spoken musically I dont know what is.
Ive seen santana 5 times over the years he's deffinitley one of my favourites brilliant musician.
What Carlos does for you, (and I love Santana) Duane Allman does for me. He moves me emotionally like no other guitarist.
This puts into words why sometimes I seem to be going through the motions and other times I feel deeper into it. Thanks for the explanation. I foresee listening to some early Santana in my near future.
Love this video. Thank you from Ireland
Every time I play I feel like this. like i can feel what's going to come out of my fingers through my body. I can hear the notes and tone in my head. I can see it like colors.
And then Fllubbb.
I haven't the skill to bring any of it to life.
I play every day in the hopes that one day i will be able to bring to life what i feel.
I feel like intent and feel, the way Carlos manifests it, has to do with his timing. If you listen to the good stuff like Welcome, Caravanserai, Moonflower and albums like Swing of Delight Lotus and Oneness, you hear a certain playfulness in his playing. He can be ahead and behind and then he comes back on the click in one solo. Very intuitive player. All about feel and intent. The purest expression of music without much calculations and overthinking. The recipe for creating music that goes right to the guts and speaks to your instincts.
Hello David, just a thought. When you refer to sloppy and imperfect musicality speaking, what would it sound like if you put it through the music washing machine to clean it up, and fixed the other aspects regarding the mode corrections? Can you possibly do such a thing just as the ultimate before and after, perfect vs. desirable imperfection? Sounds like a cool idea. Thanks, Anthony
David gets existential :) If you've taken a look at Santana's Masterclass - playing is "saying something" musically. Not about technique, not about flash, Carlo's is very spiritual. It's one thing to pick up and play - it's another to go "beyond". Not to get too weird, but that's really the only reason I play - to connect to something 'other' than the fretboard, many may think this comment is weird, maybe someday if you think I'm weird... you'l "get it' too :)
If you listen to the late Shawn Lane, you have it all,......technique, feel, choice of notes, importancy of the melody,......
I saw a Santana in the late 90's, changed my life!
Carlos is king of soulful melody. His music breaths. He has a unique voice that is instantly recognizable.
WOW very intense thought. It made me as a beginner to really look into how I was trying to play. Thank you
Intense dynamics is what its called. Drilled into my head from playing trumpet thru school.
Santan's style was 'borrowed' from Peter Green. The Supernatural is a good example. I've been play Santana since 1972, so I know thing about his playing.
Stolen not borrowed
@@toddtuck548 Yep. His entire style is stolen from Peter Green. Even Black Magic Woman was written by Green and yet Santana gets the credit, WTAF?
Song of the Wind (Caravanserai) was Santana and Schon trading solos seamlessly, and yet I doubt that anyone thinks that only Carlos played that guitar.
Ever since his inception in the lineup of the guitar-play crafty names list that participated in Woodstock (Hendrix, Tousend, Fogerty, Lee, etc) and his band's rendition of Soul Sacrifice, Carlos to me was always the rebel guitar player that revolutionized Latin rock from the beginnings, infusing his trademark spiritual flair into his play...
I was 15 when I bought my very first rock LP (vinyl in those days was still the trend 😎) at the local record store, when I went in and asked the clerk if he had Iron Butterfly's In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida...After he pulled it out and played a couple of tracks for me, I said "Perfect, I'll take it".
While he bagged it up for me, he proceeded to suggest something I had never heard before..and pulled this weird looking album with a black & white cover depicting a drawing of the face of this menacing lion showing its wide open jaws... 🙂 you guys know which one I'm talking about....And he said "This is a new one we just got in..I strongly recommend it to you..." 🙂 The rest is history...
That was my second album ever.. And from that moment, I was immersed in the sounds of that guitar playing that you so swiftly and beautifully describe here...Fifty years through this musical roller coaster that's called Carlos Santana...
Awesome video...I never really heard anyone slice Carlos' playing that way... Excellent!
Now, on to enjoy the next one you got lined for us.. 👍
5:02 also where notes/ rhythms are placed in relation to the beat/ tempo😊
Years ago Satriani not only cited Santana has a big influence, but also said he hoped that Santana's influence could be heard in his playing.
Caravanserai is the album
You are definitely on to something here. Good work, grasshopper.
I listened to Santana the other week for the first time in over 15 years and the confidence and like you say intent with which Santa plays is unmistakable. I didn't understand what I was hearing 15 years ago but now it was like 'woah! That guy knows what he's doing..'
It's probably a subliminal thing that attracts many people to various artists. Singing with confidence and intent is what 99% of successful singers do too.
You really must hear *****Gary Moore***** also , another one of my favorites . Alfred NYC / PR
Fantastic! I adore Carlos Santana. 🍻
Once more. With feeling!
you should listen to Santana while swimming (waterproof earbuds or cheek buds). It's perfect!
You need to read his Biography you’ll understand. Always evolving. I’ve been lucky enough to see him four times, starting in 1970. People talk about soul, he’s got it.
when i was young and Santana was being discovered i heard the song ' all i ever wanted was to be with you' and was instantly a fan.. then trying to learn Europa, couldnt do it well.. when supernatural came out i covered the song smooth and tried to nail those solos and wow did that help me hear where i was missing 'feeling'..