Tariq Ramadan seems to have gain a fresh and respectfully status in UK and USA Is not like that we knew him In France. He's a radical Islamist with a double language depend of the audience he has... He's push a moderate Islam In front of western audience and a strong conservative Islam when he's with his fellows Muslims Caroline Fourest, a journalist confronted him, on many shows with his double language.
French BS. How do you interpret the difference between his statut, not only in UK and USA but in each and every country he's visiting, and his statut in France? It has been quite a while since I asked anybody to show me ONE evidence of this double language. Still waiting. Seems to me that this is just the way some french people find to discredit him, qu'en penses-tu?
hussainzakir1 instead of condemning the Bataclan terror attack and the killing spree across Paris, i've only hear him blaming my beloved country laicity...
Tariq Ramadan, thank you for arranging for these videos to posted here and regardless of what ignorant, fools may say in some comments here, there are many who would thank you for making the effort to help us all understand the issues better.
Two brilliant men. I wish the debate had been free flow (though the moderator did a fine job). Too often they seemed on different wavelengths and went off on their own tangents which was slightly annoying. On the whole it was great debate.
Thank you very much for uploading this video. I'm always looking for more Hitchens debates :) On an entirely different note, I can't help but notice that almost all comments on this video are horribly misspelled and grammatically incorrect. If you are going to defend your point of view, at least do so in an eloquent and proper manner. I am quite sure that Mister Hitchens would agree with me, were he alive today. Or maybe I am being presumptuous? :)
After growing up homeless,hungrey and traveling like a nomadic gypsy with my dad and brothers in a 66 cadillac fleetwood.I seen many different cultures ,langauges,and have lived in 22 states and all that outward living taught me something very important. There are three things in life that will always surely separate friends,brothers and whole families.money,women and religion.
Christopher Hitchens. Thank you. Only wish you had been around longer. That doesn't change the impact you had while you were here. Again, thank you. Proud Atheist. Good demonstration of why one should only be so. Even when debating the best of what the religious have to offer, which, in fact, is not a particuarly grand compliment.
I was just thinking the same thing, was about to post the same thing. Wish i could have had the chance to hear him in person. One could only imagine how many more Hitch slaps there could have been in the next 10 years.
The "verse of the sword" which is 9:5 which many people quote as kill em. If you read the VERY NEXT verse it says not only give peace back to those unbelievers who give you peace but to also protect them.
the example i can give is as simple as this. if in our life, we are perfectly FREE to do WHATEVER we wanna do, regardless whether it is right or wrong, whether it will harm us or others, it will turn out that every single person on this earth will simply do wtv they please, wthout thinking that their actions will affect others..
If only our presidential debates could be this interesting! Hitchens is, as always, brilliant as a rhetorician for secular western thought. Ramadan, however, makes a great point when he objects to Hitchens' oversimplification of the worlds complexities and his tone when speaking to matters concerning real war and death. It's an accurate observation that with Hitchens the debate "is over before it has begun," because Hitchens is, however nobly, radicalized against religion as a whole.
The fact that you referred to it as ancient just highlights how truly preposterous the presentation of your original notion was. Lol not really offended, just realize the impossibility of engaging in a meaningful debate with someone who presents his or her opinion as fact. If not being able to engage in said debate is what I deserve then I am certainly counting my blessings.
Please tell me the meaning of 4:89 then. Lets not forget that the Quran is a self-proclaimed "perfect book," meaning that the verses are not subject to interpretation but are meant literally.
Another interesting quote is, "...whoever kills an innocent soul; it is as if he has killed all of humanity together, and to whosoever saves an innocent; it is as if he has saved the lives of all humanity together."
Tariq was very knowledgeable & structured in his talks, open & progressive in his idea. While hitch was always try to close the discussion by playing words, make humor & attacking sarcastically on isolated issues as if the issues define islam.
is credited with identifying the foundations of algebraic geometry and found the general geometric solution of the cubic equation. Another Persian mathematician, Sharaf al-Dīn al-Tūsī, found algebraic and numerical solutions to various cases of cubic equations. He also developed the concept of a function. The Indian mathematicians Mahavira and Bhaskara II, the Persian mathematician Al-Karaji, Shijie, solved various cases and higher-order polynomial equations using numerical methods.
i would just like to say that i think what Tariq was trying to get at is that: its easy to understand what it right because its just there, we can accept it for what it is and there really isn't much debate in these areas. however, when it come to "if u see anything bad in islam or quran, it's because u don't..." i believe its because there is so much more room for differentiating ideas that need to be further explained, analysed and contextualised, then again, thats just my opinion.
Well, you are correct; my use of "haha" was indeed a way to indicate that I am not interested in engaging in a serious discussion with you. The fact that you had no problem speaking about another individual's so called "agenda" as a matter of fact rather than as your opinion or perception of that individual made serious discourse on the topic virtually impossible to begin with--hence the introductory chuckle.
I wonder if people are slowly starting to notice, after having listened to such debates, that any discussion on Islam is actually a discussion about politics and international conflict and not one of religious ideology.
Someone's gotta ask this from the so-called moderate muslims: Considering the number of different interpretations of islam, what's the point of even having the holy book in the first place then?
It's good to see another Muslim breaking down the stereotypes Christopher is exemplifying here. Pat you and your religion on the back for your comments below. well done you!! Are you a Sunni???
What would make it legal to kill another person in the Islamic faith? Asking out of curiosity. **And I apologize if the question itself is worded wrong, if I'm taking what you're saying out of context.
so if you think about it , Christopher Hitchens doesnt care for the idea of religion watsoever .Makes you wonder if he was the right guest for this specific debate ?
2.[9.50] If good befalls you, it grieves them, and if hardship afflicts you, they say: Indeed we had taken care of our affair before; and they turn back and are glad. 3.[9.51] Say: Nothing will afflict us save what Allah has ordained for us; He is our.Patron; and on Allah let the believers rely.
As for the comparison to Obsessive-compulsive disorder. People with OCD feel irrational compulsion to engage in unnecessary and routine acts, with an arbitrary number of repetitions, often focusing on washing of hands, and cannot feel at rest until they have been completed. The comparison of OCD to ablutions and prayer is glaring. Again what is more likely, a divine being requires a nominal number of hand-washes and rakaats or the whole process was devised by someone with a neurological disorder
any religion can be for good or bad its all about how its interpreted by the person/group that are following it and then the actions they take due to that.
Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift. Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison.
That's sort of simplifying the issue here. The fact is many violent verses in the Qur'an have been misinterpreted, and misquoted and this idea that Islam is a totalitarian religion is unfounded and something Muslim scholars have emphatically refuted.
"If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astonishing results are the three criteria of a human genius, who could dare compare any great man in history with Muhammad? "Philosopher, Orator, Apostle, Legislator, Conqueror of Ideas, Restorer of Rational beliefs..The founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?" Alphonse de LaMartaine
Hitchens has a mastery grasp of debate. The honourable Pr. Ramadan quite frankly rebuked nothing and in fact seemed to fall into the net that Hitchens cast when debunking the so called peacefulness of religion, an idea, take notice, Ramadan instantly dashed and failed to to maintain while making dramatic claims that things are being over simplified. I will never be as great as Hitchens, but thank goodness he was born.
It is He who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth in order that He shows its superiority over all other religion, even if the idolaters detest it. [Al-Qur’an 9:33, 61:9]
Mr Ramadan, needs to read up a little more on ancient greek philosophy, "know thyself " is an ancient greek aphorism found written in the ancient temple of Appolo at Delphi
Even then, if the family of the victim forgives, the accused may be granted some lighter punishment. And as for Adultery, that's really considered a major offense, because it upsets societal order, destroys families, lives, and can lead to other unpleasant circumstances. Divorce can be considered instead. And even then, one needs atleast 4 witnesses to testify to the adultery, in order to ensure its veracity.
I don't know, did you answer? All you did was asked questions. Do you know what this "?" is? It's called a question mark. You only use it when asking a question. Learn to use it. The same goes for the exclamation mark [ ! ]; learn to use it.
Tariq Ramadan seems to have gain
a fresh and respectfully status
in UK and USA
Is not like that we knew him
In France. He's a radical Islamist
with a double language depend of the audience he has...
He's push a moderate Islam
In front of western audience
and a strong conservative Islam
when he's with his fellows Muslims
Caroline Fourest, a journalist confronted him, on many shows
with his double language.
French BS.
How do you interpret the difference between his statut, not only in UK and USA but in each and every country he's visiting, and his statut in France?
It has been quite a while since I asked anybody to show me ONE evidence of this double language.
Still waiting.
Seems to me that this is just the way some french people find to discredit him,
qu'en penses-tu?
+Ary Rosh Double language?? could you give examples please.
hussainzakir1 he is the radical muslim horse trajan in Europe...what example do you need? check all his take in french medias..
hussainzakir1 instead of condemning the Bataclan terror attack and the killing spree across Paris, i've only hear him blaming my beloved country laicity...
Could it be that both are wrong. And maybe thts what he was going on about
is conflict the way to solve the worlds problems?
I really must ad how much I appreciate the poster of this video left comments open enabling an exchange! BRAVO:)
Tariq Ramadan, thank you for arranging for these videos to posted here and regardless of what ignorant, fools may say in some comments here, there are many who would thank you for making the effort to help us all understand the issues better.
“Intellect is a part of a good faith.
Intellect is the light,
the heart is the direction.”
― Tariq Ramadan
Thank you, brother. That means a lot. Indeed, spread the peace. :)
nice debate ... thanks
what is that flag that Christopher Hitchins is wearing on his blazer? Does anybody know?
If I think of putting work off till later but end up doing it rightaway, does this count as procrastinating too?
Two brilliant men. I wish the debate had been free flow (though the moderator did a fine job). Too often they seemed on different wavelengths and went off on their own tangents which was slightly annoying. On the whole it was great debate.
I love your comment so much!
Thank you very much for uploading this video. I'm always looking for more Hitchens debates :)
On an entirely different note, I can't help but notice that almost all comments on this video are horribly misspelled and grammatically incorrect. If you are going to defend your point of view, at least do so in an eloquent and proper manner. I am quite sure that Mister Hitchens would agree with me, were he alive today. Or maybe I am being presumptuous? :)
Before the crusades or after?
yes , one of my favourites are "watermusic" and "kitchen confidential".
not much reading though, had to work for the living.
After growing up homeless,hungrey and traveling like a nomadic gypsy with my dad and brothers in a 66 cadillac fleetwood.I seen many different cultures ,langauges,and have lived in 22 states and all that outward living taught me something very important.
There are three things in life that will always surely separate friends,brothers and whole families.money,women and religion.
Christopher Hitchens. Thank you. Only wish you had been around longer. That doesn't change the impact you had while you were here. Again, thank you. Proud Atheist. Good demonstration of why one should only be so. Even when debating the best of what the religious have to offer, which, in fact, is not a particuarly grand compliment.
Please indicate what "statements" you wish an assertion of?
I was just thinking the same thing, was about to post the same thing. Wish i could have had the chance to hear him in person. One could only imagine how many more Hitch slaps there could have been in the next 10 years.
How can you follow a book without reading it?
Is Tereq Ramadan French?
woaaah! couldn't say it better!
The "verse of the sword" which is 9:5 which many people quote as kill em. If you read the VERY NEXT verse it says not only give peace back to those unbelievers who give you peace but to also protect them.
the example i can give is as simple as this. if in our life, we are perfectly FREE to do WHATEVER we wanna do, regardless whether it is right or wrong, whether it will harm us or others, it will turn out that every single person on this earth will simply do wtv they please, wthout thinking that their actions will affect others..
does he have a french accent?? Im stupid
If only our presidential debates could be this interesting! Hitchens is, as always, brilliant as a rhetorician for secular western thought. Ramadan, however, makes a great point when he objects to Hitchens' oversimplification of the worlds complexities and his tone when speaking to matters concerning real war and death. It's an accurate observation that with Hitchens the debate "is over before it has begun," because Hitchens is, however nobly, radicalized against religion as a whole.
With history, you can justify EVERYTHING, whether it's religion's righteousness or secularism's attaining peace
The fact that you referred to it as ancient just highlights how truly preposterous the presentation of your original notion was. Lol not really offended, just realize the impossibility of engaging in a meaningful debate with someone who presents his or her opinion as fact. If not being able to engage in said debate is what I deserve then I am certainly counting my blessings.
And here I thought I was the only one to notice that Mr. Ramadan had dodged every question by either denying it or not allowing Mr. Hitchens to speak.
Please tell me the meaning of 4:89 then. Lets not forget that the Quran is a self-proclaimed "perfect book," meaning that the verses are not subject to interpretation but are meant literally.
Not sure what you're getting at. It's coming across a bit vague.
What is the point you are trying to make?
Thanks
Anyone else getting freaked-out (read: very fast-forwarded) audio?
Well said brother. The Muslim communities need more people with this ideology.
Peace from Manchester/Gaza
Agreed. I have never in my life heard someone say so much, and yet so little.
Just wanted to peruse Reddit....stuck here for over an hour
Prof. Tariq is an incredible intellegent professor. Well prepared, well educated, and well clear in his speech
Another interesting quote is, "...whoever kills an innocent soul; it is as if he has killed all of humanity together, and to whosoever saves an innocent; it is as if he has saved the lives of all humanity together."
Really? Please quote your source. Tia
Tariq was very knowledgeable & structured in his talks, open & progressive in his idea. While hitch was always try to close the discussion by playing words, make humor & attacking sarcastically on isolated issues as if the issues define islam.
Is Ramadan French?
I have yet to watch a Hitchens debate where I didn't scrub through the speeches of his opponents
is credited with identifying the foundations of algebraic geometry and found the general geometric solution of the cubic equation. Another Persian mathematician, Sharaf al-Dīn al-Tūsī, found algebraic and numerical solutions to various cases of cubic equations. He also developed the concept of a function. The Indian mathematicians Mahavira and Bhaskara II, the Persian mathematician Al-Karaji, Shijie, solved various cases and higher-order polynomial equations using numerical methods.
i would just like to say that i think what Tariq was trying to get at is that:
its easy to understand what it right because its just there, we can accept it for what it is and there really isn't much debate in these areas. however, when it come to "if u see anything bad in islam or quran, it's because u don't..." i believe its because there is so much more room for differentiating ideas that need to be further explained, analysed and contextualised, then again, thats just my opinion.
was a gooooooood debate
Nice... ; )
Context is important to understand accurately what was meant by the author. Take anything out of context you can interpret to mean whatever you want.
True....Me too...
Well, you are correct; my use of "haha" was indeed a way to indicate that I am not interested in engaging in a serious discussion with you. The fact that you had no problem speaking about another individual's so called "agenda" as a matter of fact rather than as your opinion or perception of that individual made serious discourse on the topic virtually impossible to begin with--hence the introductory chuckle.
True or False are they connected to each other
I wonder if people are slowly starting to notice, after having listened to such debates, that any discussion on Islam is actually a discussion about politics and international conflict and not one of religious ideology.
I love how Hitchens can't hold a laugh in while the opening remarks are conducted by the moderator.
“No man ever believes that his holy book means what it says: He is always convinced that it says what he means” G B Shaw
Someone's gotta ask this from the so-called moderate muslims: Considering the number of different interpretations of islam, what's the point of even having the holy book in the first place then?
Whenever someone says "this is the wrong question" or "speaking as a . . ." there is a very high chance that the next comments are garbage,
dude that whole verse is describing a battlefield not telling to attack
Explain!
ارجوكم احد العرب يترجمه
It's good to see another Muslim breaking down the stereotypes Christopher is exemplifying here. Pat you and your religion on the back for your comments below. well done you!!
Are you a Sunni???
where did you run away to?
@sleepibeauti there is a religion of peace; can you name it?
its amazing that Tariq can claim what he says at 32:20 when stuff like that is written in the book
0:29:02 debate over before it started it seems
What would make it legal to kill another person in the Islamic faith? Asking out of curiosity. **And I apologize if the question itself is worded wrong, if I'm taking what you're saying out of context.
*sees title* PFFFFFFT
so if you think about it , Christopher Hitchens doesnt care for the idea of religion watsoever .Makes you wonder if he was the right guest for this specific debate ?
2.[9.50] If good befalls you, it grieves them, and if hardship afflicts you, they say: Indeed we had taken care of our affair before; and they turn back and are glad.
3.[9.51] Say: Nothing will afflict us save what Allah has ordained for us; He is our.Patron; and on Allah let the believers rely.
As for the comparison to Obsessive-compulsive disorder. People with OCD feel irrational compulsion to engage in unnecessary and routine acts, with an arbitrary number of repetitions, often focusing on washing of hands, and cannot feel at rest until they have been completed. The comparison of OCD to ablutions and prayer is glaring. Again what is more likely, a divine being requires a nominal number of hand-washes and rakaats or the whole process was devised by someone with a neurological disorder
I agree wholeheartedly. Welcome to debating with the religious ;-)
any religion can be for good or bad its all about how its interpreted by the person/group that are following it and then the actions they take due to that.
Good, I'm glad I made you laugh :]
I agree with you there, also, the chance of life being both created AND sustained without a miracle is not even a little higher than 0%
Exactly.
Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift. Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison.
Christopher Hitchens was such a genius character...
one of hitchens favorite text is "why I am not a muslim" by Ibn Warraq. Read it.
Where have my comments gone
Tariq Ramadan you simply was professional , smart, honest .....and I admire you too much
what am i a muslim?
That's sort of simplifying the issue here. The fact is many violent verses in the Qur'an have been misinterpreted, and misquoted and this idea that Islam is a totalitarian religion is unfounded and something Muslim scholars have emphatically refuted.
It starts at 10:10
Mr.Ramadan is right when he says that no religion is a religion of peace.
"If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astonishing results are the three criteria of a human genius, who could dare compare any great man in history with Muhammad? "Philosopher, Orator, Apostle, Legislator, Conqueror of Ideas, Restorer of Rational beliefs..The founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?"
Alphonse de LaMartaine
I was referencing Tariq Ramadan saying 'British' when listing languages.
Apples and pears.
Who would have though that it would take 1:39:19 to say "No?"
Hitchens has a mastery grasp of debate. The honourable Pr. Ramadan quite frankly rebuked nothing and in fact seemed to fall into the net that Hitchens cast when debunking the so called peacefulness of religion, an idea, take notice, Ramadan instantly dashed and failed to to maintain while making dramatic claims that things are being over simplified. I will never be as great as Hitchens, but thank goodness he was born.
It is He who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth in order that He shows its superiority over all other religion, even if the idolaters detest it. [Al-Qur’an 9:33, 61:9]
2:244 Fight in the way of Allah, and know that Allah is Hearer, Knower.
Aye, Drakes Equation predicts a rough number of 25k currently existing civilizations in the Milky Way, not factoring in extremely improbable events.
Mr Ramadan, needs to read up a little more on ancient greek philosophy, "know thyself " is an ancient greek aphorism found written in the ancient temple of Appolo at Delphi
We all have our different beliefs
Education Education Education
So, is it really a religion of peace?
Tariq Ramadan, peace be upon you, and may God bless you! You have overcome the joker!
Dr Tariq Ramadan was awesome. and also the part that lady said "I dont think you want to support George Bosh"
that is why i travelled half the world.
The best twenty minutes 23:34 To 38:24 Tariq Ramadan
Even then, if the family of the victim forgives, the accused may be granted some lighter punishment. And as for Adultery, that's really considered a major offense, because it upsets societal order, destroys families, lives, and can lead to other unpleasant circumstances. Divorce can be considered instead. And even then, one needs atleast 4 witnesses to testify to the adultery, in order to ensure its veracity.
I don't know, did you answer? All you did was asked questions. Do you know what this "?" is? It's called a question mark. You only use it when asking a question. Learn to use it. The same goes for the exclamation mark [ ! ]; learn to use it.
two very respectable articulate and intellectual speakers,r.i.p hicthens even though ima muslim
What the hell happened @22:08 ????? lol lol lol