'Oliver Cromwell: hero or villain?' by Dr David Smith, Fellow, Selwyn College
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- čas přidán 28. 06. 2024
- Talk by Dr David Smith, Fellow in History - 'Oliver Cromwell: hero or villain?'
The name Oliver Cromwell is synonymous with England's failed Republican experiment. But the man himself continues to fascinate us. In this illustrated talk, Dr David Smith explores Cromwell's life and career through a selection of his letters and speeches, and considers why opinion is still so divided over whether he was a hero or a villain.
Dr Smith is Director of Studies in History at Selwyn College, Cambridge.
He specialises in British political, constitutional and legal history in the seventeenth century.
The talk is introduced by the Master, Roger Mosey and includes a Q&A session.
I think you should have talked more about his reasoning for fighting and his attitude towards his family and soldiers. It paints a different picture. He mainly retaliated to catholic violence. He didn't just kill Catholics for being Catholics. He fought for religious liberty.
He was genocidal butcher. And an average cavalry commander.
Ehmmmm.... Greetings from wexford , you're full of sh1t
Oh, for gods sake!!
A complex man who cannot be assessed fairly by the values of today. Subsequent monarchs (even in other countries apart from France) behaved differently as a result of his deeds and some of his actions dragged Britain into a better place from where it was, Also the lessons leaned from the failed English republic were taken on board by the fledgling American nation so his actions had many far reaching effects. Part of Cromwell's prayer on his deathbed " Teach those who look too much on thy instruments, to depend more upon thyself. Pardon such as desire to trample upon the dust of a poor worm, for they are thy People too". Certainly in my view too, a flawed hero.
I think the English Republican period had promise. If the Parlimentarians would have given it more time the process would have succeeded.
Oliver Cromwell's body should have never been desecrated like it was. That is never to be tolerated or condoned.
I have done a bit of study on this subject since the early 2000s. I had 1/2 of a broken molar and went to a dentist in S/W Mt. The dentist's last name is Cromwell. As He was arranging His tools I mumbled "Cromwell - Cromwell wasn't there someone famous with that name"? He answered, " Yes I'm a distant relative of that line of people but I don't like to admit it ". He was ready to work so later I used Wikipedia at home and found ( Oliver Cromwell ) 🤠 Yup❕ G~G.
ts ok to criticise Cromwell for the invasion of Ireland but the wrongs were done already by King Henry 8th in Ireland.He sent a lot of Protestants from Scotland and England who couldnt afford their own land to Ireland to kick them off theirs and steal their land.Then to add insult to injury started the plantation and charged the native Irish keep to work off what originally was their land.
Thanks for sharing this on youtube, where we can all enjoy it and get some of that good info
Much enjoyed Dr Smith's talk - thank you very much. Sorry that I couldn't join live.
“Oliver Cromwell: Hero or Villain?” Yes.
Yes? As in « Yes, we have no bananas? » (hic😇!)
Still in the area, surname went back to Williams - was a bit of a shock when my aunt did all the geneology... I have an ancestor whose head went on a spike after he had been a king (of sorts). Williamses carried on doing some interesting things, my father was editor of hansard in the old rhodesian parliament ..
Grandfather had 12 sons, 11 of whom went off to Australia.
Interestingly the cromwell face definitely came through the dna.
Excellently done ✔
Enjoyed that! Sadly I couldn’t join live via Zoom as I had to read a Local Authority Bundle on some Care Proceedings. Cromwell - as divisive a character as exists in British history?
I am a direct descendant of Oliver Cromwell through his son Henry Cromwell. I would like to believe he was a hero.
He was indeed!
If only he had been there for his Father’s eyes to rest upon him to choose him for his succession instead of what’s ´is name! ( But he certainly lived to a good age for the period…and witnessed the Glorious Revolution after the horrors of James II and his Judge Jeffries.)
He committed Genocide in my country killing women and Children at will so if that's a hero to you then that says a lot.
You might have been King if Cromwell had accepted kingship and started a new dynasty.
@@flyshacker : Queen, I think with respect to Renée…
Cromwell is so interesting from an American 🇺🇸.
Something to note, is that under the Commonwealth witchcraft executions decreased in Scotland. Professional, circuit court judges were introduced and English Common Law was introduced to Scotland. The Scottish Privacy Council was also dissolved. Scottish prisons were bursting with people accused of witchcraft and the Scottish were complaining that under the Commonwealth the issue of witchcraft was not being addressed. Once the Scottish were given authority to govern once more and allowed to hold their own courts the witch-hunts started again. Cromwell brought order, his style may not have been ideal, but the alternative is often forgotten about.
I am Irish and writing presently from Ireland. One thing that was not expanded on was that those in C17 didn't think as we do. Cromwell was a man of his time and his views towards Catholics and Catholic Irish were of his age. The Reformation failed in Ireland and had a Catholic population that was considered to be heretical, superstitious and uncivilised. Many believed that they were living in the "Last Days". There was a min iceage, famine and waves of epidemics. The Pope was thought to be the Antichrist mentioned in the Bible. I believe that Cromwell thought he was on a holy campaign to cleanse Ireland of Catholicism and impose a Godly state upon Ireland based on the Protestant faith. He also wanted vengeance for the 1641, rebellion and the fact that Charles had previously turned for assistance to Irish armies may have highlighted that Ireland was a security risk to the Commonwealth. Cromwell fought under the rules of C17 warfare. In war, atrocities are common, they are not right, but it is a fact.
I am not trying to defend Cromwell, or the thinking of the time in England, but present a rational argument as to why Cromwell did what he did.
We Irish also have a long memory and many in Ireland choose to blame the English for everything terrible that ever happened here. Irish History is full of Irish perpetrated atrocities. The victim card is often played in our country. Perhaps, it is time for the Irish to move on and work together towards a shared future and peace. An Island where we think as people liberated and enlightened by knowledge, modern morals and thinking not still stuck in the C17.
Incredible comment. Thankyou for your time & patience in writing this. 🙏🏻
@@DC_92 thanks for your kind message
The "victim card" would you make the same comment remark about Jewish people. Why should Irish people move on?
@@dowdallerno1 l am not a Zionist, but I disagree. The Jewish people have moved on while remembering the Holocaust and the terrible atrocious carried out against them in Europe throughout Europe. While, their tactics are sometimes questionable, they are surrounded by hostile nation states that would wipe them off the face of the Earth.
The Irish on the other hand blame the English for everything bad that ever happened to them. Yet, during their recent economic crisis when the Irish State clung on the brink of bankruptcy Britain was the first to come to their aid. If it hadn't been for Britain and the EU, Ireland would have been on her knees.
In the South, some individuals are still hung up on the Anglo-Irish War. They still recout stories of some Black and Tan kicking down their great grannies door, In the North some people will never be happy with everything they have achieved. They don't want a shared peace, they want everything, the whole cake and then some.
Perhaps, peace will never win because the Irish Free State was born out of terrorism. Its first leaders like Michael Collins were nothing more than terrorists in suites with blood on their hands.
Ahh yes, the ancient town of Wexford destroyed and its inhabitants raped and murdered....
But we Irish need to get over playing the victim?
I'd put money on you being a dub and a west brit one at that .
Cromwell was a beast and we Irish will NEVER forget what he did under the English flag.
Atrocities not even matched in wexford in 1798 when the English again went on a rampage
Hero....
Cromwell is a hero to all men. He knows what "Parliament" is and what it takes to run it. However, those that have fought with him for the same cause never understood the true meaning of Cromwell's intention. King Charles I should never have sought foreign interventions to save his crown. King Charles was never for his nation, but himself. King Charles I said, "It was God that crowned him as King and that he answers to no one but God." In this statement alone is and will always be a false statement. Before the Parliament asks King Charles I to make a response to the Court, King Charles replied, "Sir, I answer to no one because it is the duty of a King to dissolved the Parliament; You, Sir, is not a Parliament for it has been dissolved by me, the King of England." Hence, he was sent to be beheaded the same day.
Every leader despotic or elected facing revolution has sought foreign intervention to save their rule: Charles I, George III, Louis XVI, Jefferson Davis, Nicholas II, every South Vietnamese head of state.
@@BolshevikCarpetbagger1917 Blood must be shed in order to be cleansed of filthy rulers.
Starts 5:15
After former colonies declared independence many of those republics continuted a series of monarchist traditions. That's why a lot of countries have Presidential Palace's for example. It doesn't surprise me at all how he found it hard to move away from certain attributes of kingship.
My question is, if the military strongly opposed Cromwell becoming king and reestablishing the monarchy, then how did the military react to the monarchy actually getting restored after Cromwell? Were they strongly opposed?
There is no black or white answer to any history question . The answer always comes with nuance.
Doug sees title of video, says "Cool, I've always wondered this myself."
First minute: Two guys exchanging pleasantries.
Second minute: Guy talking about the effects of the CCP virus on Cambridge. Doug wonders when they'll start talking about Cromwell.
Third minute: Guy talking about the effects of the CCP virus on Cambridge. Doug wonders when they'll start talking about Cromwell.
Fourth minute: Guy talking about the effects of the CCP virus on Cambridge. Doug wonders when they'll start talking about Cromwell.
Fifth minute: Doug leaves to search for a video about the effects of the CCP virus on Oxford.
31:36
Obviously, I'm not allowed to express an opinion.
Childhood shapes a man 👨
Lord Selwyn Tarth.
Professor John Morril is missed in this exchange. Never forget Morril’s Cromwell talk of decades ago and especially for his praise for the GM,comparing Thornycroft’s statue to Cromwell Bible in one hand sword in t’other that while the statue of Charles 1st in Trafalgar Square was taken away to safety from the bombing of the WW2 blitz declaring he found it worthy and appropriate that Cromwell’s statue remained fast throughout against Nazi tyranny aggression, along with Nelson’s statue too ( altho’ it wouldn’t have been easy to take his away to safety!…Yet the Irish yearh those sods again, blew their statue to the GM up and have never replaced it…why doesn’t that crypto cato’ Irishman Toni Blare fund one with all his millions…? 🙂hic!).
More seriously, these specialists give the impression Cromwell was beyond reason, that other countries remained unimpressed with the turn of events against Charles 1st…But they had just emerged from their Thirty Years’Wars between Protestants and Catholics…England’s Civil Wars were in part what other countries had experienced and were recovering from…Of course Charles should not have been executed…nor Stratford or other friends, but Cromwell would’ve suffered their fate too had they proved stronger to win the day, alas those were the times…But in their empathy for the Irish as innocent victims why no mention at all of the bloody horrors of Mary 1st Henry’s daughter, and of what went on in Charles’s Queen Henrietta-Maria’s country of France with the terrorism of the Dragonnades against the very people of Henrietta’s beloved father Henri IV…even his conversion for the sake of peace had no effect on the sheer wickedness of the Massacre of the Night of Saint Bartholemew…Huguenot Protestants of high and lower ranking were massacred by Catholics in the streets of the capital of France to which the had come as invited guests….
I do wish Dr Morril had been here to give some guts to this talk, more akin to Neville than to Winston RIP
Spam & Misleading
The northern Irish were already loyal to England due to land given when they were sent in the early 1300s. the rebellion from republic and Scotland could have caused trouble itself itself i mean the jacobite wars were the last attempt to renisatte the monarchs of Scotland. That was in 1700s Cromwell didnt start sny trouble Ireland it was already unstable place.
I’m a descendant of his.
Cromwell, a man of very great God given talents who scared the hell out of those that claimed God given rights but to whom God chose to not give any such talent. Cromwell gave the lie to the myth of God given rights to both Monarchy and the Catholic Church. A better place for that statue would be in front of the US Congress.
It would never happen. Most Americans are enchanted with royalty.
As a Christian it seems as though Cromwell desired a righteous government which is a good cause however you cannot legislate the morality of the human heart and Therein lies his great error. A theocracy by any stripe is not Christian and ultimately a practical papal outcome that he purported to stand against. Jesus said “ my kingdom is NOT of this world if it were then would my servants fight”
Drowning in no subject
He let certain people back into Britain!
Never understood why the Mayflower pilgrims were running away from Cromwells Christian government? What the hell was there problem? 😂
Ask the Christians of wexford Town... oh wait , cromwell butchered them all and left the ancient town in ruins
@@boysofwexford
Revisionist nonsense !
I notice you don't mention the Irish massacres of 1641 when thousands of Scots were massacred, or the battle of Benburg in 1646 another 3,000 Scots were also butchered by the Irish.
Better to leave history in the past where it belongs, they did things differently then.
Based on what he did to Ireland alone you're delusional to consider calling him a hero.
This very much a biased video. Why pose a question if your only arguing he is a villian?
Richard Harris is a Hero, saa
Ask the Irish
They’re godless, they wouldn’t understand it.
Really try me open a book to educate yourself about this guy and what he did to people in Ireland you may not look like the fool you do now
Why? They get their knickers in a raging wrap at the very thought of wiping their aRses with Sinn Fein Vote for Noo Loos Mewspipers
@@ProfileP246 Cromwell was a Cowardly low- life.
He kidnapped the Irish Children to place a Ring around himself, so as not to be attacked.
Satan's direct Son, against God's Love.
@@georgebrowne5935 😂
HERO , that was easy .
Beast of English breeding with a place firmly established in hell
Anti-Republican Propaganda
Traitor and villain who sold England for “30 pieces of silver”…
He is no Robespierre for sure but I would't call him a hero. He was neutral in my opinion if not a bit worse.
Satan's Son.