Bolts on a trad route?! Between Here and Now, E3 6a, but is it even Trad?!
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
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Reminds me of Austrian trips in my youth with bolted belays only. I quite liked that concept. works well on compact slabby rock
I like it!
I don't think it's an original thought on my part but I've always made the distinction in bolting style between "sport" and "sporting".
My take is that the character of the original ascent should be preserved. So no retro bolting unless to replace original pegs/bolts that are no longer safe. If it is run out it gets a trad grade ie if the climber benefits from the adjectival grading information on risk and character (- bolts or no bolts). If, however, it is a sport route, then it is bolt protected but the adjectival grade adds no relevant information. Therefore all sports routes are given a technical grade and the default adjectival grade (diff) is omitted.
PS just to be clear, I’m joking on the default comment. ;-)
Also to add, I don’t think that if a new climb has natural protection, on rock that can take it, a bolt should ever be placed. Once it is placed then no one can really climb it properly. There is enough rock to climb to fill anyones lifetime. There is no need to steal a bold first ascent from future generations.
I can understand why someone would not want to put bolts in a route and keep it trad, but once you put one bolt in, then just bolt it properly. The spaced bolts is just seem like arbitrary / synthetic danger for dangers sake. Why not just bolt it well and the people that want a “memorable climb” can skip half the bolts.
Spaced out bolts is the norm on ‘sports’ multi pitch alpine routes. I definitely don’t agree with people adding bolts just because they want to make it more accessible. If you don’t want to run the risk of hurting yourself then just stick to the gym and outdoors sports routes where you have a bolt every metre or so. There’s plenty of options for everyone so don’t go destroying historical routes. My one caveat would be adding bolts at belays which would otherwise be very dodgy due to erosion. Making the argument that you don’t have to use all the bolts that are in-situ is nonsensical. More than 50% of the climbing game is about what is going on in your head. If you just want to focus on your athletic/gymnastic prowess, then go for it but don’t destroy existing routes just so you can tick the route.
@@AndyZ-hz7oh I don’t think I suggested I was going out with a drill to add more bolts. As soon as you add 1 bolt, you are acknowledging that you can’t control what is going on in your head to climb the route as is, so you are altering it to a level you can cope with, just so you can use your athletic prowess to climb it. This level is completely arbitrary, based on the person adding the bolts and will be different for different people. I f you actually believe what you said, you would be against bolts completely.
How did the bolts go in? On lead? On lead with a hand drill? Drilling from free stances? Hooking while drilling? Not all routes go in on rappel with a power-drill. Routes that are established on lead often are run-out and put in via a traditional fashion. They don't lack bolts for excitement. They lack bolts because bolting on lead, especially with a hand drill, is hard and often bold work.
I agree. I think if a route is bolted, it is the responsibility of the bolter to make sure that anyone else planning to climb the route, will be safe on said route. Not that Trad is unsafe but the climber has more freedom (in some cases) to control the amount of safety based on how much gear and what not. If someone wants to climb a route that is bolted but it's not bolted safely that leaves two options, people won't climb the route you put up so what's the point of bolting a route if you don't want people climbing it. Or they could get hurt. I'm one for not over bolting but under-bolting is far worse
Maybe, but this was first climbed in 1986, the ethics and climbing in general, were different back then.
Skipping bolts isn't the same, you always know you can clip it if you want. I've skipped plenty of bolts sport climbing when it might save energy and it's safe to do so, but that's a different thing of course.
Mixed trad is quite common in Australia particularly in the Grampians fairly often just one or two bolts for routes 30 or so meters. The ethics around it are a little odd and would probably require someone more versed in the history of it than me if I'm honest
That's interesting, not climbed there sadly!
If it’s loose take care of the dog lying at the bottom. Not the first time I have heard of a dog getting hurt with falling debris lying under routes.
Had him 8 years and he’s my number one concern! Always put him where I think is safe.
Is there any chance you could to a video on trad grades as I can’t seem to get my head around it in comparison to sport grades
Another cracking route
I'll give it some thought 👊
@@JBMountainSkills cheers pal
Do you have a video on placing gear in pockets?
The short ahead answer is, if you don't place any gear it's not a trad route. A line of suspect pegs is another question 🤔
At least not with the spacing on that route
Trad describes a route that went in a traditional fashion. It has nothing to do with placed or fixed gear. How did the route get established? On lead or top down? Chances are if it went in on lead it will be exciting. If it went in top down with a power drill then it will be nice and safe.
Routes like Snake Dike in the US are pretty much fully bolted but is still classified as a trad route, this isn't a UK specific thing.