How to Stop Missing Skillshots in League of Legends
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
- additionally, if you want a free 1 hour coaching session sign up here: www.soloqsolution.com/free-co... (it's seriously free, their business model is basically to find the most dedicated players that would become a repeat customer after giving away a free high-quality session). don't sign up if you're not actually looking to improve - it's a waste of both side's time, seriously.
00:00 Intro/Explanation
00:29 Rule 1
00:58 Rule 2
05:46 Rule 3
08:15 Rule 4 - Hry
Edit: I’m starting to notice a trend here. You guys LOVE inserting your own opinions in the format of “you forgot x” etcetc. You’re not necessarily wrong but you guys forget that I have to think about video runtime plus I write out a narrative and sometimes adding random shit disrupts it. If you want, you can make your own video about Skillshots and add every detail in. Until then stop doing this on every video lmao it’s not constructive criticism it’s nitpicking.
I worked hard, enjoy. i will highlight these things with some gameplay videos in the future. im trying to focus on quality over quantity until arena comes back
Sick content man keept it up!
Ty bro.
Btw can you make video about how to click efficiently? When I click too close to my character I tend to tunnel vision and when I click too far I can't dodge shit, so it would be nice if you could give tip or two.
this was a sick vid, very high quality lol
@@walkelftexasrangerlower that dpi and do aim training in fps games. Bring that accuracy to league and set up simulated fights in practice tool with dummies at various distances. Play out pretend fights with this setup until you don’t have to think about where your mouse is consciously. Don’t play ranked until you can do that perfectly I suppose.
@@KingNidhogg Thank you, really appreciate it.
When you're both emerald and support so the jokes hit hard
_plays Sona support_
god this makes me mad
;-;@@joaquincaceresguibovich3182
3:00 this sounds like how Catholics explain sin. “The difference is in the intent.”
League is wild, dude
that's actually not how we explain sin but great comment
@@viola308 He's half right.
And on the Seventh Day, Jesus called to do Baron.
But his teammates went to take bot wave instead so he decided maybe a flood was in order
Report Judas, plays Shaco and Backstabs all the time.@@ZeekarPRIME
According to some study I heard about, people usually run this "dodge or not dodge" loop two to three times in their head (if they have enough time to think), so you were corect in your video
Yes people swap it up in Rock Paper Scissors at around 3 repetitions. If they win they tend to do the same shit again until they expect you to catch on. That's why I either insta mix-up or hold that shit 5 turns in a row.
@@KingNidhogg How much rock-paper-scisors do you even have to play to figure it out lol
@@KingNidhogg Rock paper scissors guide when? I recently lost while playing for who starts with pool.
@@ricudi9392there was a study introduced to me by Annie bot like 8 years ago that helped shape some of my tactics in games. It was about people’s habits in rps. Might be outdated but some recent stuff sort of backs it up with the general idea of win = hold.
@@gillesdejong8863I would go with some pop psychology bullshit about how dudes tend to start with rock. Send that shit straight into paper because most dudes favor clenching a fist as a natural movement and if u lose skill issue I suppose.
hearing something thats done subconsciously by me broken down in words was a treat to watch. Thanks!
Its that one ahri main :0
I was thinking the exact same while watching the first minutes :D
Here's something I saw on a different video, years ago, that really stepped up my hit rate on dash+skillshot champs (i.e. Nid and Lee):
When you're chasing someone fairly far away, don't dash straight at them... Dash diagonally towards them and immediately Q towards the opposite dodge direction.
So if you're chasing someone north of you, dash right, Q left.
Most(!!) players will instinctively try to create distance from where you're dashing.
Funny enough I was going to do a section about angle of approach but I reaaally didn’t want to get into the weeds about perpendicular/45 degree tactics. Put it simply - approaching from 45 degrees relative to their path allows most Skillshots to collide heavier with peoples hitboxes and forces them to dodge backwards instead of forwards as they would have to do a counterintuitive movement to dodge forward. If you are shooting straight up perpendicular to your targets path they have two equally easy options for dodging.
@@KingNidhogg now you gotta do a part 2 man I don't make the rules
idk if people want to watch like 20 minutes of this shit@@cahallo5964
Yes we do @@KingNidhogg
second that
I am addicted to educational Erick
that was a good video. the clips add so much to clarity, so thanks for what must have been ages to edit all that.
took a whole day
adding to the layers:
often people in midlane stand diagonally to each other, so they are the furthest apart.
a habit of many people is that when they are on the left side, they always dodge to the left. same for the right.
always opposite of the minion wave / into the river.
they stop doing that in higher elos
Yep!! This definitely also applies to bot lane. If you are to the right of your opponent, they will generally tend to dodge "down" (backstep) or left (side step furthest away from your champion).
If you are to the left of them then they will do the opposite and tend to dodge using a right side step.
8:52 NAHH I WAS NOT READY FOR THAT
This is so cool. I'm fgc player never seen anybody contextualize this concept to leuge so coherently.
awesome, glad to see an fgc player that isnt being condescending in the comments haha
the high effort content is really paying off, we can see the time these videos took and we all appreciate it. I don't know your analytics but I hope you're profiting from these, I would love to see more, regardless of the topic. Thanks Nidhogg.
As someone who played xerath for 4 seasons this hits close, i've been doing this stuff subconciously for a while but having it generalized actually helps a lot, thanks!
2 cool meta game ideas are:
1: against champs that want to keep distance (enchanter, mage, marksman), you can move one direction, and the enemy will tend to dodge in the opposite (For example, move right as you shoot a skillshot and to maximize distance, those champs will tend to dodge left subconsciously)
2: At least against players who don't think, you can force them into higher stress situations (For example, a thresh flash hooking), surprising them and making it more likely for them to go into layer 1 dodge, where it might be easier to predict it. In other words, literally scare them into dodging by doing something sudden (like flash)
point 2 reminds me of the funny malphite tech, where you flash and do nothing to bait enemy flash, then ult them. similarly into fiora you can flash and make her panic parry, and get a free ult off
Real Gs just flash an unexpected emote to scare the opponent into reacting. You'd be surprised how often people fall for it.
Funny you mentioned that last part, because I'm trying to improve at fighting games and this video actually gave me a lot of insight into how to run mixups on my opponent. Great video, maybe i'll finally be able to run basic strike throw
Hey man, I saw a few videos from you a like 3 or 4 years ago and the content didn't really resonate enough with me because they were just stream cuts, but these last vids have been just pure gold. The WASD camera movement video served almost no purpose to me as a player cause I'm old and resistant to change, but damn was it interesting and I'm certain it helped a lot of people out there. On the other hand I really loved this one because you've put into words what I feel I've been doing instinctively for a long time, but couldn't really think about it in an organized way like you did, so it was hard to improve.
If it matters, I just want to say you've been putting out pretty good content lately and you got yourself an old viewer as a new subscriber today. Keep it up king 👊
the editing is soooooo smooth with this one, youve really upped the anti i love it
Loved this video Eric! I’ve gleaned a few of these from your content, but it’s really cool to see it all in one place in an easy to comprehend way. Been loving the informational/educational content, keep the good stuff coming :)
aye bud Erick*
@@KingNidhogg o my bad
as a filthy pyke one trick who finally finished masters last season after years of grinding, can confirm this video's discussion of the layers to skillshots and fighting game-type mixups in league is so valid. so annoying when you get accustomed to the 'always predict' layer and you run into players who you can't tell are either not dodging because they're bad or actually outsmarting you and getting accustomed to your predictions. my emerald friends would probably react to a failed pyke q prediction on a straight line dodge as just a bad play on my part, rather than a big brain play on the enemy's, nice to encounter someone who actually gets this kind of nuance completely, you are challenger tho so makes sense 😂
Or you can just have some knowledge in any fighting game to get the point about 50 50 and conditionning
aint no way we got fighting game elitism out here@@yann5546
this video deserves to blow up fr. very entertaining and actual good advice
Thank you for a very insightful video. It's good to keep these in mind both with other players and towards myself.
Loving the educational videos! Keep them coming. Hope this goes viral for you
Great way to explain tbh, will show this to my friends who are new, you pretty much nailed most, if not all information regarding skillshots
this was all stuff ive always had in the back of my head from playing for years, but watching a video thats verbally saying it out loud really reinforces the ideas. Thanks bro
Really enjoy these educational videos bro! I tried the WASD camera movement and struggled to get rid of 10+ years of muscle memory so after a few games, I chucked a zoomer and gave up, but become way more conscious about camera placement. Hopefully with this video I can hit skillshots too 🤙
One of the most unique and helpful League vids I've seen in a while. Thank you. :)
Thresh is my most played champ so I’ve always done this, but could never figure out consciously what I was doing. Thanks for the vid :)
This video is tight as hell dude, really enjoyable
Very good video explained very well.
I tried to explain this concept about dodges to some friends in the past and they thought I was crazy 😂
yo I love the personality you put into this video thanks for ur effort man please do more videos like these ur wholesome 😘
Love your vids Nidhogg! Love the way you made your own concepts for hitting and dodging skillshots. For your next vid can you go over "tethering/spacing", this is one of those skills that separates good players from the best players. It can decide lanes as well as matchups, but it's a hard skill to implement correctly and consistently.
Deep into future
Great video ! Concise, funny, loved it
Super informative video! Great explanations!
Very good video, this mindgame is how i climbed with thresh to diamond. Its fun because even bad players still use dodges against thresh hook because its so easy to see he is going to throw it.
My favorite part of league was learning how to play. Once I started not getting better the game became a lot more miserable. This has reignited my will to become better at league again.
Lol, I love watching your videos!! keep up the good work. You just earned yourself a subscriber.
Awesome video! Very well thought out! Love then end!
Overall I'm pretty sure I knew all this but I couldn't help but continue watching for your delivery, very well done ❤
The entire concept of "what layer is my opponent starting on" can be applied to many different games. Good concept to be aware of, and good video.
For hooks champions, flashing and delay your hook can also throw mid-low elo opponent (non newbie but not very gud) off-guard. They are likely to panic flash which will you give you a split second to aim directly at them
Fantastic content today mister hogg I learned a lot
As a xerath/zoe main I am very familiar with the probing period of the game ususally at lvl 1
It’s where I see if they default to dodging spells by going above the expected path, or bellow (usually they dodge above because subconsciously it’s more comfortable to get the HEAD of their champion as far from the skillshot as possible) with this in mind, especially on zoe, the laning phase can be over by the arrival of the second wave, you probe with the 2-3 first Qs and bank on what you’ve learned as you level up and unlock E, if you’ve hit 1 or 2 Qs and manage to hit E and play ignite, that’s first blood baby !
I figured when dodging its better to not think about the person firing the projectile but the projectile itself , if im running from pyke upwards toward turret and hes charging up sure i know hes gonna fire his q but i shouldnt "predict" dodge it because i dont know where he will fire it giving me a 50% change of dodging it . on the other hand if you think only about the projectile it has a velocity meaning it cant hit you instaintly even if you go straight and he fires it straight it will land infront of you if you stop moving because he has to accommodate for your movement. making it super easy to see in real time and dodge downward away from where youre running on the other hand if he "predicts" you will dodge you just dont care.
I guess this explains why Im able to dodge/get hit by some skill shots.
My dodge pattern is usually in 2's
Straight straight dodge dodge.
Ill try mixing in the regular pattern if I they start predicting me. Maybe even do some combination of the two.
Also you got me with the josh hutcherson jumpscare.
this is beautiful, philosophical and apathetic. I love it and I'm sending it to all my league friends.
One great environmental factor to add to this is minions. If there are minions close by but not ever impeding the skillshot, players will tend to dodge in the direction that would eventually path them behind a minion. This is effectively a useless dodge, but psychologically it feels intuitive and players will go for it often.
Love these new style videos
Great video! I'm surprised you didn't bring up faking a skillshot, as I think that's a pretty cool concept too. Like when ganking as Viego, press and holding w for the full duration to make the enemy backstep multiple times, allowing you to close distance. Its also doable with fast abilities without charge like blitzcrank. Sometimes just running up and s-keying is enough to make people backstep or burn flash. Think it woulda been a cool thing to touch on, but it is very niche.
Glad u made this video, I noticed as I reached diamond everyone started to juke me more. So I started to aim for their sidestep
Great video. I love the approach to thinking about the concepts at a cognitive level and how it's a very nuanced dance that you and your target play with each skill shot fired. Maybe one day we can get to where the FGC is and cut through so much of the bullshit narratives people use to complain rather than think in this game.
This is a good video that demonstrates game theory in an real scenario
depending on the skillshot hitbox like nidalie spear vs naut hook, you can completly rely on reaction time with nidalie q but for naut hook, dosent matter if you flash you should just take clense or just accept the fact ur getting cced for a little bit lol
Keep it up man, videos like this are great and what are needed to educate future players so this game can stay alive. I've been playing for a while but explaining concepts like this to more casual friends can be difficult, thank you for this.
Small anecdote - As you get to higher rank playing illaoi these fundamentals are imperative to being able to land e and q or your champ is worthless. One game in particular I played against a Vladimir in top lane and we both escalated through the layers constantly adapting and mixing up our dodges and gameplay. It was pretty sick and an extremely rare experience. I have not seen a player like that since and it was years ago.
We were probably around layer 4-5 maybe? It was incredibly satisfying to get the read on him and tbh I can't even remember if I won or lost, it was just fantastic gameplay from him.
One trick that I carry from dota is that when you have a strong lvl 6, is nice to intencionally miss some skill shots in squence, so the enemy create the impression that you are just bad. So when you get your combo if they are good, they will try to bait it knowing they can easly doge your skill shot, but this time you aim right and caught then of guard, getting a easy confirmed kill the snowball you into the game.
Sometimes this will even tilt the guy and he will think that you got lucky and will rush to try to kill you, giving you another kill and to him the confirmation that you was just faking your miss shots. If you hit him too much a good player would react to this just by getting defensive. Some even more good players will get defensive anyways knowing your power spike. Moba is a mental game after all.
Imagine it is like a rock paper scisors game, you can force your enemy to think that you gonna play certain way. If you not predict 5 times they will not be prepared to the prediction in the 6th in the objective fight and will eat your combo like a bot.
loving this type of content
You can sometimes hear poker players talk about "Levels", which is the same concept as your "Layers", but with bluffing in poker, and asking yourself if someone knows that you know that they're bluffing. Similar strategy in rock-paper-scissors too, actually, but gets much more intense when you add in the third option and possibility of a draw.
actually good video, one of the only education league streamers who knows what they’re talking about
I will definitely be rewatching this video to hammer these things into my head lol.
Regarding the last list with the dodging types, I like to look like I am having a seizure with my character and then just dodge once their animation is there. Works 90% of the time since the enemies have no idea what I am doing
that rift herald to top lane was insane
As a Melee Champion, This is super helpful for making my Auto Attacks count and hit the enemy
Common Nidhogg W, thank you GOAT
This helps a ton with understanding how to dodge too
This was extremely useful and I will implement this in my games, are you planning on making a more in depth video on the concept of metagaming in the future?
Maybe
00:00 Intro/Explanation
00:29 Rule 1
00:58 Rule 2
05:46 Rule 3
08:15 Rule 4
Where's niddhog rule 34 then?
Sometimes you can loop enemy's prediction. Like they get back thinking you shot it then you actually dont do it. They start walking again and get back again. It happens so often near the wall when you gank bot lane for example. You can build yourself a time where they go back and forth.
It is similar when I play as Anivia. Usually when i wall them and put R and get close to them, they know I wanna cut them off with my Q. They go back (in my R), and I actually don't Q them. They just waste time sitting in my R while im E'ing them. Before they realise they are so low in hp that no matter what they do they will be dead.
i always did that but never knew it, thanks for explaining it perfectly holy shit that was a good video
Random recommended video on my feed, WP, you played the Algorithm beautifully
Hell yeah, my beloved format of applying fighting game concepts to other competitive genres
I would love a formal and precise write up
yooo who are you, i loved that vid, nice effort you put in there ❤
The lane swap on the herald was sick.
i love this I wish more people talked about the micro game of league bc thats why I even play. Like chess but more interesting. I was lvling this new account and man its rough having understood so much micro game. This one teamate said man this game is hard and it was like a full circle moment for me. This game actually really is hard tbh when you really think about it but its one of the best and most rewarding strategy games ive ever played.
I was a feeding noob when I started too. Then I saw some advice on youtube and the idea of avoiding death at all costs unless for xyz opened my brain up. Made me really think about the game in a different way and how I should be playing and more and more strats just naturally came to me.
Such a good video man
Insanely good video. Im a master thresh/blitz player (shit compared to u but good enough to know abt skillshots) and you explained it perfectly. When I watch a league video I always try to "cast the player skillshots myself" so when you did the little game at the beginning I guessed "between A and jarvan" and hit the Q, and did so by using what you would go on to say afterwards (expected value, hitbox at the feet). I would also like to add how I personally condition the enemy to dodge where I want them to when laning, I always throw my first 2 Qs in the same place. That way, out of my first 3 Qs, I will always hit at least one of them, and it goes like this:
If the enemy gets hit by the first one and dodges the second: I will always mix up my Qs and will hit often
If they get hit by the first 2: I will throw them in the same direction again until I miss twice in a row, unless the expected value of a different hook is bigger
If they dodge the first 2: I will always hit the 3rd one. Ive never had anyone dodge the 3rd one unless scripting, and after hitting the 3rd one they will prob get hit by the 4th and 5th as well.
Probably one of my favorite league vids in a while, great video! Would love to hear ur oppinion on my conditionig method lol
Also something else: I play mostly flex queue due to having friends, and all my friends are between diamond and chally, so we always have the highest mmr queues, and usually the enchanter supports are the shit players boosted by their friends and have dog reaction times (though there are some exceptions), so they always get hit by straight line hooks. Last month I had a game where my friends told me in loading screen that the enemy blitz turbo fisted them a few times, so knowing that I assumed that he would do a 1 type skillshot first twice then do a 2, then mixup. By doing that I didnt get hit by a single hook that game (thresh vs blitz matchup). My adc, who is not a skillshot player, got hooked a lot by him, and most of the hooks he got hit by where the most efficient hooks (basically hooks where the only out of not losing the teamfight were to hook a specific way), and my adc is a decent player (diamond) . Just found that pattern interesting and wanted to share
Also cool to add that really often the best predict is to now throw the skillshot, like the lee sin example where he goes back to the tower wall. I know its a big rant but I love using skillshots in this game and this video was so good that I wanted to add a piece of my mind, also since Im a long time viewer (u will always be thr high apm jarvan and on hit nida chally in my heart, not the arena guy though I watch all kinds of your vids) I know you read the comments and wanted to know your opinion om what I had to say
Everything here is fine as an organized plan tends to yield better results than chaos because the thinking is done ahead of time + adjustments tend to be baked into them. The problem is when you go against a good player with fast enough reaction times + thinks ahead. A fast reaction would be something like 200 milliseconds. A fast primed reaction can come out at like 150 because they’re expecting it. Some skillshots are just unhittable when your opponent has those specs. This is why zoning and chaos becomes a lot more important the higher you go up.
Hi Eric! I have been watching your videos for over a year now. Your content is really educational and chill and watching you play is very entertaining. You have a lot of knowledge when it comes to the probability theory behind this, can I ask what you did in college?
Hello, erick*. I dropped out of college after first year and I was majoring in media.
@@KingNidhogg Im glad you doing what you enjoy and are currently sharing your passions educationally
I’m glad to know that I, a player who’s new to both MOBA and LoL, occasionally make my opponent question if I’m the most unaware noob who can’t dodge skill shots or if I’m a smurfing pro player who’s predicting their predictions
Trying to predict predictions ad infinitum is called being stuck in donkey space! This cycle is intriguing because every time you exploit a weakness, it makes you just as exploitable. My hope is that you'll be one of the first LoL players to transcend this cycle and start playing for Nash Equilibrium. With your experience it would be fascinating to see you delve into the game theory optimal aspects for both micro and macro play, assessing the feasibility of pursuing it over the mind-reading approach.
I laughed so hard. Good video Man 👍😊
9:10 obviously the posture thing is bs, but most people tend to dodge in one direction, whatever that might be. So it actually makes sense to look in what direction your opponent dodges the first few times, and sometimes you will see, that they allways dodge into one direction.
Really nice video as always my man, I normally try to react, but I use these concepts you just talked against ezreal and fast skills. I like the mind game of running always from 2-3 enemies and going straight to a wall to sign a flash, but turning to damage one of them before flashing, because they see your intention and either back, contour the wall or go flash with you. m I n D g A m E s
didn't know about the feet thing thanks
very valuable vid
i love rhe mind games of when you read someone successfully but then they know you know how to dodge so they switch it up and it just becomes a guessing game at that point. Like if I stop dodge successfully I try to not do it again.
Great video, subed
Just when I decided to give up and spam lulu/maokai support you upload this, I guess I'm gonna save it for when rito removes the 2% bonus movement speed shard
You didn't mention the middle term, though. Since most skillshots are pretty bulky, you can get away with barely hitting them for the same effect as a bullseye. Therefore you can most often get a hit if you aim your shot so it hits in most cases, rather than having to guess whether or not the target is dodging and to which direction.
the layers are missing a key factor: Being far enough away with good reaction time to see the line its travelling on and dodge reactively to never get hit.
The real way to land skillshots is to not lead with them, but to use them as follow up to something else.
0:50 brah you already solved it for me thx
best way to land skillshots is to not throw skill shot and just waddle in their direction until they simply cannot dodge it, let them play themselves
Amumu player?
so, will we get a textbook for when you deepen this to account for kiting?
where is rule 5 to dodge the singular frame of Josh Hutcherson?
One thing about the layers I have noticed: When people have very very little time to react or the situation is high stakes and already overloading your senses (lategame teamfights for example) 99% of players always go back to muscle memory, which is dodging. So context of the situation is import, not just enemies behavior in the past. (I ended gm euw last season, even in high elo games, I have never seen even chall players break habits in stressful situations)
mental stack yes - i am addressing this in the reaction times video
If your opponent has been playing for over a year, you can adjust for the type of skillshot it is.
For slower ones, aim at diagonals - assume the enemy will track away as they dodge to gain space.
Faster ones, aim at sides - assume the opponent will strafe hard, trying to win the "left or right?" guessing game.
Similarly, if you're dodging faster projectiles, like Ezreal spam, juke straight sideways.
If the shot is slower, move away as you dodge, at a diagonal - this helps create space and gives you more time to fix your dodge.
nice, thx @KingNidhogg. awesome hq content that explains the topic in depth and is entertaining. 10/10
One point that I don't think you covered is "Holding", for the player hitting the skillshot. You don't have to throw skillshots out right away and if you hold and posture like you're looking the throw your skillshots you can trip opponents out to preemptively dodge, so when you actually throw your skillshot you have a better chance of hitting them. This works best when opponents are near terrain and don't have much space to dodge.
Not sure if you saw but there was a clear example in rule 3 with walls where I demonstrate standing still. I don’t think I need to explain the tactic of patience because if I do I would have to explain when not to be patient as well. Takes too long it’s not as simple as throwing it in. Just like how I have to counter my own point about predict to introduce zoning. Video was already getting too long for people’s attention spans.
2:15 There is actually a Layer 3, where u flash on the enemy to get them to flash to a specific direction where u throw ur stuff, Flash into enemy Flash is very common especially when the enemy feels like hes in danger
No it’s a binary system created to explain shit it’s not a real concept
This is everything I did unconciously over the years. Good video though learned me a few extra things.
Sooo... Doodging is basically the same as to grab or not to grab in fighting games. Never thought about it this way, thanks!
What i honestly took from this vid was if im to cover the most bases whilst being lazy i should always aim anticipating no dodge as they either wont dodge, will dodge or neglect to dodge as a dodge so you are left being more likely to hit by probability?
gr8 vid very informative. more of this!