The Thorpe Railway Disaster
Vložit
- čas přidán 26. 06. 2021
- The tragic true story of how a terrible miscommunication sent 2 trains into a head on crash just outside of Norwich in 1874 costing over 20 lives and changing rail safety forever.
Sources/ pictures
East Anglian Disasters, Glenda Goulden, pages 62-65
www.broadlandmemories.co.uk/blog/2014/09/the-thorpe-railway-disaster-1874/
norfolktalesmyths.com/categor...
joemasonspage.wordpress.com/2...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorpe_...
www.edp24.co.uk/lifestyle/heritage/140-years-since-thorpe-st-andrew-s-night-of-rail-698956
www.greatyarmouthmercury.co.uk/lifestyle/heritage/the-filthy-night-when-two-trains-collided-1889678
www.familyhistoryresearchengland.co.uk/blog/the-thorpe-st-andrew-rail-crash
virtualglobetrotting.com/map/...
www.flickr.com/photos/lwr/33295957272
www.mtholyoke.edu/courses/rschwart/ind_rev/iln/accident.htm#norwich
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyer%27...
Pictures
www.pacificng.com/template.php?page=/ref/locobuilders/blw/style/baldwinstyles.htm
www.edp24.co.uk/news/when-were-the-bootlace-murders-in-great-yarmouth-7822686
www.nottinghampost.com/news/history/gallery/see-photos-golden-age-steam-1509992
www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/features/lookingback/15553260.discovered-victorian-love-letter-addressed-to-miller-richard-luckham/
www.wikiwand.com/en/Norfolk_Railway
www.eastanglianrailwayarchive.co.uk/Railways/Abandoned-Lines-and-Stations/
www.pinterest.com.au/pin/371687775470060322/
pennyspoetry.fandom.com/wiki/...
www.pinterest.co.uk/mrvictorian1900/heritage-railway-station-interiors/
www.postcardfinder.co.uk/thorpe-train-station-norwich-vintage-postcard-60316-p.asp
www.bathintime.co.uk/catalog/product/view/id/41721
ukmedals.com/product/board-tr...
www.windsor-berkshire.co.uk/jack-the-ripper-has-a-windsor-connection/victorian-court/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_E...
thegreatthorperailwaydisaster...
victorian-era.org/victorian-me...
www.itv.com/news/anglia/update/2013-05-02/anniversary-of-the-1845-suspension-bridge-disaster/
www.coldstreammilitaryantiques.com/en-GB/badges/west-norfolk-militia-victorian-officer-s-shako-plate/prod_20732#.YNiygOhKg2w
www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/481111172668232673/
www.dreamstime.com/photos-images/huge-bonfire.html
Great vlog and Great story. In Norway there was a coastal express ship that ran aground in oct 1962. The helmsman going off duty told the to go on duty to stear a heading of 15. He did not look at the compass. Back then it was normal to drop the first digit when saying a course. So the on duty helmsman steared a heading of 015. When they hit rocks a few hours later the two helmsmen met again and then it became clear that the heading should have been 315, not 015! That is Norways Titanic. Over 40 people died. The name of the ship was «St. Svithun» that is saint of the city of Stavanger. Now you know!
I have just returned home from a walk passing the accident site on the other side of the river, there is an information board telling the story
Yes, I've seen that by Whitlingham Broad too.
“Has it ever struck you that life is all memory, except for the one present moment that goes by you so quick you hardly catch it going?”― Tennessee Williams.
So never miss an opportunity to make a memory!
Hmmm, 🤔
@@James-ko1bl A good memory I hope!!!🙏🥰
I'd certainly never heard this tale before despite traveling over that line dozens of times, and hiring a boat from the yard nearest the bridge on a couple of occasions too. Nicely told well done Sir
Hello there. I've stumbled across your channel by sheer accident today. A little bit of luck to have happened upon "A Little Bit of History". Congratulations on producing such well researched and magnetically entertaining episodes. Subscribed
Thank you so much or subscribing, I hope you enjoy the future content.
The gravestones of the engine drivers can be found in Rosary Road Cemetery a short walk from the crash site. Paid for by public subscription.
Hi - I am Phyllida Scrivens, Biographer from Norwich, and author of the book mentioned at the very end of this film about the Great Thorpe Railway Disaster. Firstly, may I thank the presenter (do we know each other?) for not only posting up this film but also for the final plug! Indeed, I have spent the past two years researching and writing my third biographical book The Great Thorpe Railway Disaster 1874: Heroes, Victims, Survivors, which is to be published by Pen and Sword Books in September. It is already appearing as a 'forthcoming title' on many bookshop sites, including Amazon. We hope to launch in Jarrold in Norwich on the evening of 30th September. I am lucky that local writer and broadcaster Pete Goodrum agreed to write the foreword and he will be joining me at the launch. If I may point out to viewers that the photographs of Thorpe Station are actually of the more modern building, opened some 12 years after the Disaster, but images of the original station appear amongst my 30 plates. However, the commentary on this film is entirely accurate, and many of the people and events appear in my book. I have focussed on the 28 people who died (I have uncovered a 28th), giving readers an insight into their past lives, as well as looking at some who survived. I was amazed to discover that there were in fact 2 future Lord Mayors of Norwich aboard the train from Brundall that evening! I also have a blog at www.thegreatthorperailwaydisaster.com to which I will be adding references and new discoveries as my journey continues. I will also be taking my illustrated talk on tour around Norfolk with bookings for 2022 coming in fast! Thanks again to A Little Bit of History for covering this fascinating story, an event that took place only a quarter of a mile from my home in Thorpe St Andrew, Norwich.
Cheers mate, that was another interesting bit of local history. I did wonder a while back if you'd cover this one.
I lived on Thorpe Island just down from the crash site as a kid, and believe me, i used to get pretty spooked out by it on a dark and blustery night!
If memory serves me right the Rushcutters had photos from the accident as it served as a mortuary.
Thanks again and all the best.
I didn't not know the Rushcutters had pictures of the crash, then again it has been years since I have been in there so don't remember much about the place.
@@alittlebitofhistoryI'm sure i remember hearing of such being found - it's an old building in itself. Whether they stayed with the premises or found a private collector i couldn't say, but then I'm going back twenty/thirty years!
@@squidgeyblack80 Fair enough be interesting if they are still out there somewhere, as much as I respect private collections it is a bit of a shame how much gets locked away to never be seen again.
Another excellent episode of a little bit of history, kudos Sir!!!🙏😢🚂❣️
Very interesting and nicely spoken. Thank you
I used to live down that way and have fond memories. I wasn't aware of the disaster, though.
13:23 Dr. Raspberry Francis, local botany scientist RIP
Thanks for the info, a tragic but interesting story.
I love these English history programmes, more please.
My grandad's dad was a witness to this crass. He was working at the station when he saw it happen, the sounds, all of it. Must have been horrific.
I am delighted to have discovered this Channel, with videos of interest to me as a fellow East Anglian. Brilliant work, thank you so much.
I am so glad to have found your channel as there are so few about the history of our county. I am making my way through all of your videos with great interest. Keep up the good work and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your good work!
You are absolutely fabulous.
Thank you for sharing these bits of history. Truly excellent.
Horrific! Very well researched and presented, thank you
Well done! Thanks for bringing this incident to life!
New subscriber now.
Very good. Thanks for your work.
Yet another great video. Thank you 😊
Ken Nunn, the railway photographer took a dramatic photo of a train picking its way through the wreckage the day after. The driver of the express had been well-known to Mr. Nunn.
Learning so much that I never would’ve known otherwise about my local area and its surroundings. Thanks!
Very well presented. An excellent documentary.
Another great video my man, very much enjoying your content. Keep it up!
Thanks for an interesting, but very tragic, video.
Thank you for this piece of history
Fascinating presentation thanks xxx
I'm going to treat myself to another fascinating presentation while I have my dinner.
Thank you for these little bits of old world Norfolk from and old world Norfolkman
I lived in Thorpe St Andrew for a few years, still live in Norfolk - NNR Wymondham. I go t married in the church and frequented the Rushcutters many times. I heard about this many years ago, and was surprised it isn’t more widely known. I volunteer on the North Norfolk Railway, which is single track operation of course. Every time I am open the train and see the token being swapped or collected I remember this tragedy.
Invariably when on duty a passenger will come up and ask “what’s that leather bag that the driver and signalman swap?” After explaining the system and how it works, I always mention the Thorpe Railway Disaster. May all their souls rest in peace.
First time viewer. What an excellent video, great presentation and content
Interesting stuff mate…
Another accidental viewer, and local to Norfolk.
Subscribed!
Thank you and welcome.
Thanks for an interesting but sad video.
I was trawling through You Tube when I saw Thorpe which rang a bell in my memory.
In 1989 we hired a cruiser on the Broads, not sure if it was Blake’s or Hoseasons, which we picked up in Thorpe.
We stopped at a large supermarket to buy supplies and then drove down a long dirt road and halfway down at a railway crossing had to ring to see if there were any trains due.
We parked the car on a slipway and had a wonderful weeks holiday as I knew we would , I had been on the broads aged 18 in the early 1960’s, although this time there was not as much alcohol cosummed.
Thanks to Google Earth I have found what I think looks like the boatyard.
The supermarket is now Sainsbury’s on Pound Lane, we drove on the A1242 then turned left onto Bungalow Lane to the yard at the bottom.
Mike Swift
Well prepared and presented. It is also mentioned in a book called Red For Danger.
Not heard of that one will have to check it out, thank you.
Interesting story. The photos of Norwich Thorpe station are fascinating but why do some of the photos show American locos instead of great eastern ones?
Easy of finding them more than anything else, trying to find more time when I can look for the correct pictures but hard to find ones that aren't part of pvt collects you have to pay for the use of.
The first photo, that of a Double Header, is, as "steam driver" below mentions, a Victorian Railways train headed by a then new AA Class (in service 1900-1932) Followed by an older B class (1862-1917). The title shown on this page en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Railways_B_class states "Sydney Express 1900" but those don't look like long distance carriages to me. In fact they look a lot like the carriages converted to electric traction between 1917 and 1924 to become Melbourne Swing-door electric suburban trains. They were withdrawn by 1974.
The B class loco in that photo would be contemporary with the Thorpe Disaster but not the carriages or the AA Class.
Funny that you should pick a photo of an AA Class for this story as three of them were involved in Victoria's worst rail collision in the Sunshine rail disaster of 1908, a rear ender resulting in the deaths of 44 people and the injury of over 400.
Victorian Railways tended to withdraw their locos after 30-40 years but not the New South Wales Railways which had 1870's vintage 19 class still on some local freight trains in Newcastle up to 1970!
Because nobody cares any more; that's why.
@@ktipuss A class were numbered in 200s, like the photographed engine. And they had a 3 axle tender. AA class were numbered in 500s, and had a bogie tender.
Thank you for another well researched story with great illustrations. My dad in England would have loved this site and especially as it involved trains. I get my love of history and of maps from him. My best friend in America loved British and would have loved this site too.
So sad. And so very interesting.
I've read your description of the mix up three times and it's as clear as mud, it needs re-writing!
Tyer's Electric Train Tablet system wasn't perfect as the Abermule crash would show, but it was better than what went before.
True - but Abermule was essentially down to total incompetence and negligence - sadly proof that you can make a fool-proof device - but not, alas, idiot proof
A complete and utter cockup of the British railway system, things are a lot better today but are still overcrowded, far to expensive, uncomfortable and invariably LATE. I feel sorry for the young telegraph operator, he carried out the instructions given to him despite knowing that he was not complying with the regulations and laws of the time, to me it was definitely the fault of the station master and his superior, especially the station master for not clarifying his bosses instructions, his instructions were to ambiguous. It was obviously to easy to pass the buck to the telegraph operator, he would be able to defend his actions in anyway, especially if the station master lied about his actions.
Excellent episode, thanks for your hard work in bringing it to us viewers. 😀👍🇬🇧🏴
I agree, Cooper was fully the one to blame and deserved the prison sentence he got, sadly although I couldn't really find a place for in in the video young Robson was still being blamed by friends of Cooper well into the 1930s.
A detailed account of this accident in far greater detail as to the cause can be found in "Red For Danger" by L.T.C. Rolt.
I will have to have a look for it, thank you.
I loved the Michael Portillo series. Beautiful.
Absolutely amazing videos, so well narrated and documented. Congratulations!!! LOVE this channel!! 🤎💪🥇👏👍👌
That Australian(?) double header is beautiful, but why include so many irrelevant photographs?
I use pictures as more illustration than anything, finding correct period trains on track that makes scenes and looks right and having them facing the right directions would take far more time than I have sadly.
@@alittlebitofhistory Do it properly, or don't do it all all?
@steam driver This page includes that photo and refers to it as "The Sydney Express", although those carriages don't look like long distance carriages to me. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Railways_B_class I mention this photo also further up.
Correct. It is a Victorian Railways, Australia train. Lead loco an A class 4-4-0, and second engine is B class 2-4-0. Both engines would have been manufactured by Beyer, Peacock & Co. The cow catchers would have not been commonly fitted to British locos. The carriages are V class clerestory roofed bogie rollingstock. V class is their last coding type. They underwent many different designations from A, AA, AB, ABAB etc as the carriage bodies rebuilt, seating configurations changed.
NICE.. 👍🐸.
Norwich - Great Yarmouth. I've been out that way. I've never stayed at Norwich, but I did one night at a B @ B in Great Yarmouth. 15 pounds, not too bad, not much more than hostel rates, and better in some instances. Spent the early morning strolling around the nearby cemetary of weathered and moss-covered gravestones going back to the 1800s. Then five star breakfast. They didn't hold back or skimp on the servings. All train travel. I wanted Norwich for its Liverpool line. Went Norwich straight on diagonally up to Liverpool.
How have I not found this channel sooner?! Looking forward too binge watching 😊😊😊😊
Welcome aboard!
Our 19th (Victorian) century ancestors endured a lot in the era of constant innovation. As much as the 19th century aesthetic appeals to me, I'm glad to be living instead, now in a time when collectors can find 19th century artifacts and enjoy them in largely safer times. RIP to our ancestors who died in such tragic circumstances - just going about their daily lives, subject to the vagaries of carelessness and negligence. Victorian was anything but romantic, but crowded, toxic and unsafe.
It happens all times end up being Romanised at some point and in some ways there is nothing wrong with that but it is important to see the real side as well.
Nice to hear these provincial stories. Much appreciated, M
Me, too. Subscribed
poor mule.
A video on the rosary cemetery would be good, used to do a bit of work up there, very interesting place
I am thinking about visiting some of the graves mentioned in videos plus other interesting ones in the local area when I have a decent camera
@@alittlebitofhistory there’s a few boards there that highlights the significant graves and it’s worth a walk around just for the quality of stonemasonry that’s gone into the memorials,
I have heard of The Staplehurst Rail Crash.
June 19th 1865.
Mr Charles Dickens was involved in the accident!
Ten people died in the accident.
I wonder why the Mail Train could not have been stopped at Whitlingham Station. An order from Norwich Signal Box could have sent a message to Whitlingham Box at the Junction of the East Norfolk Branch. We will never know now.
Is it possible that the Whitlingham box was either not on the telegraph or, perhaps more likely, was what is known in railway parlance as 'locked out'? That is, only manned during, say daylight hours, or at certain times when it was needed?
I have a Hardback Book called The Railway Policeman.
The Story of the Constable on the Track.
By J. R. WHITBREAD.
❤️
Law Enforcement Officers of the Victorians.
The dangerous days before Absolute Block signalling... Absolute Block would have prevented this disaster. It's the safest method of signalling, far superior even to Track Circuit Block. As for the single line, the thought of this being operated without a token sends chills down my spine!
It sounds very strange to modern ears to hear of a doctor who, despite his own injuries, goes and tries to help as much as he can. You would never get a doctor nowadays to do that - now it's all just a case of do the absolute minimum, you get paid anyway, and fob patients off with antidepressants regardless of what the health issue is. Doctors now wouldn't lift a finger to help a person who is injured or in distress, let alone in their own time!
Your experiences with the medical profession seem to be very different to mine.
@@richardsinger01 I see you are of the "I haven't seen it happening myself so it doesn't happen" brigade.
@@LittleKitty22 On the contrary, it is you who cannot imagine that everyone’s experience is not the same as your own.
Absolute Block didn't stop the head on collision on the approach to Hull Paragon station in February 1927. Nor the disaster at Quintinshill or several other locations.
And your comments about Doctors just show your ignorance.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 Hull Paragon was an unbelievably unfortunate billion to one chance which found a second or so's 'window' in the interlocking mechanism in the box. Quintinshill, sadly, was sheer, downright negligence on a good many people's parts.
Robson SPRANG into action, please get it right.
Sounds like Thorpe and Morrison were victims of a railway company running its affairs on the cheep.
I just wondered why a double-headed Australian train is portrayed and why an American classic 4-4-0 should suddenly pop up.
Ease of finding pictures I will be totally honest.
Very Good but what have American 4-4-0 locos got to do with it
Very annoying to see the American locomotives, which are nothing to do with this incident. Was the message back not 'Mail Left'?
I do apologise for the pictures not something I would do now that's for sure I just got the first pictures of trains I found.
I have a Hardback DORLING KINDERSLEY DK EYEWITNESS GUIDES Book of TRAIN.
Discover the story of railways - from the days of steam to the high - speed, sophisticated trains of today.
In association with THE NATIONAL RAILWAY MUSEUM.
The human body is very resilient else their would have been many more deaths.
Norfolk Constabulary.
The 1860s were the darkest decade of 19th Century.
More Railways ment more deaths!
The Authorities did very little about safety, really rather until the 1880s.
So we had this decade 1860s where more people died on the railways than Ever, Before or Since.
Poor little Mule
It's the tonne of fish I feel sorry for.
I am in Norwich, NY and we always pronounce the W - why is it that the tea-bags never do ...?
That is how it is pronounced here just how the language are differed between the UK and US, every American I have ever met pronounced the W. It mostly likely comes from the Norfolk accent being a pretty lazy one often dropping letters as they speak.
In his book "Notes from Big Country", the American travel writer Bill Bryson quotes an old New Englander as saying "Norritch". This man said that the name was pronounced 'Norritch' until the 1950s, when outsiders from places like New York and Boston began to move in and ... started to modify the pronunciation.
13:15 - six week year old son???
Brundall station still looks the same today!!!
American photos are mixed into the story.
Dorchester letter??
Only one I could find that wasn't watermarked.
Found your channel by accident. Good story. Thank you. But your recitation is a bit manic. Slower would be better. Sorry. It’s my anxiety speaking.
That is absolutely fine you are not the 1st to bring it to my attention and its something I am now working on
5:06 "Clurk"? Why do so many British CZcams video presenters adopt a pseudo-Merkin pronunication?
Because I have never know how to pronounce that word tbh either way I say it I'm told is wrong by someone so I just went for it.
@@alittlebitofhistory Anyway - it was a great video. I learned something I had never heard of. Keep it up!
@@alittlebitofhistory The English pronunciation is "clarke", "clurke" is American and after all it is our language. I've watched and enjoyed many of your videos but you have a strange US way of pronouncing words (c.f. "Gail" instead of "Gaol" in a previous video). Also, this is not a criticism just an observation, are you dyslexic? You often miss out words or reverse them when reading text.
Crap
Oh dear. Awful narration style. Had to switch off what could have been an interesting video.