The Deprogram Episode 17 - American Innocence (Ft. Danny Haiphong)
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- čas přidán 5. 03. 2022
- Today we're joined by the fantastic Danny Haiphong to discuss the many aspects of western internalized exceptionalism (among other things).
Please check out his work and consider supporting him here:
Patreon: / dannyhaiphong
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CZcams: / @geopoliticshaiphong
Twitter: @spiritofho
The Deprogram Episode 18 - No one wants to work anymore is already available 1 week early for Patrons over at: / thedeprogram
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The intro music is such a bop
/watch?v=9czRP9MWjAQ
here you go
Yeesss, i'm working and holding a deprogram marathon, now 1 week in hahaha, just vibing to the intro
So while I was watching this I got an ad for "Shen Yun" which is a show about "China before Communism." The ad showed a lot of women dancing and surprisingly few peasants addicted to British opium. I do not believe I will be purchasing a ticket.
Or peasants eating tree bark or european-trained Qing soldiers firing on unarmed and unarmored peasant rebels unhappy with their shitty government
Historical revisionism of the east by the west at its finest. I don't know the show, but that ad is VERY sus.
@@pashico7082 It's actually a propaganda show for a fascist religious cult which originated in China in the 90s but was kicked out by the CCP and is now headquartered in New York
Yeah, some douchebag ended up posting a big poster for it in my local donut shop. Planning on taking it down.
That moment when the series/podcast you’re watching posts a new episode as you’re trying to catch up on it
Mashallah daddy The Deprogram has uploaded
You can't criticize the system because you need to be grateful for what this country gives you, but you also get no healthcare or public services because you need to pull yourself up by your bootstraps nobody gets anything for free. Be grateful for the nothing they're giving you.
How could you not be grateful that we have 7 different version of Cocoa Pebbles?!
"Americans are so... innocent."
-James Baldwin.
(He was being sarcastic.)
Yea, most of them are innocent, jackass. Just people trying to live their lives, fuckhead. Nothing to do with politics.
Hopefully people would know Baldwin was being sarcastic... He's a decent midpoint between MLK and Malcom X
@@hoagielamp6543 MLK and Malcom were more similar then you think
It's Called The American Dream, Because You Have To be Asleep to Believe it. -George Carlin
11:33 I grew up in a poor rural area in South Carolina and I had a similar experience as Danny. It’s crazy to hear that other lower class kids also noticed the class divide in Honors and AP courses. In my area for example, our AP Calculus course had around 20 students and 2 or 3 of us were lower class.
Loved JT and Yugopnik's takes
I loved Hakim's takes especially worshiping the US state by Americans
Tracking also happens in the UK, it's called streaming. Kids are 'streamed' into different 'sets' (1-4, sometimes 1-8 in big schools) depending on assessed academic ability. It's not as bad here as it is in the US, but there is a pattern of working class and ethnic minority kids in lower sets, and middle class students in higher sets, achieving better results. We also have grammar schools, where this model is how they admit kids into the school.
holy shit I’d never heard of the word “tracking” and that kind of class-based segregation in public schools until now, even as someone who just finished the US public school system a couple years ago. I went to a high school in a poorer rural/suburban community so the class differences within the school were not very big (it was more apparent across high schools throughout the city). Even still, most of my classmates in honors/AP lived in suburban or single-family households with at least 1 post-HS-educated parent. It makes total sense though and fits perfectly with the descriptions I’ve heard from friends who went to other schools across the country
He said Oman. Someone acknowledged our existence 🇴🇲🇴🇲🇴🇲
What's an Oman
@@lukatosic09It's what ya say when ya drop yer bud light at the party, "Oman, that one was still cold!"
You could just maybe do an episode with TheFinnishBolchevik, I have no idea if he wants or is available or not but he's a communist youtuber too and makes great videos and also has done some livestreams and such. Hakim has comments on some of his videos from like 5 years ago and more recent videos, that's how I first found Hakim's awesome channel.
Lol that's how I found Hakim too :)
They would be a great guest
I first found out about Hakim through leftypol 😂 So it was cool they shouted that board out recently on a later podcast. No one seems to ever talk about leftypol at all, which is crazy to me lol
Also I remember Finbol(didn't he post there?) from there, too. But his stuff was too advanced for me at the time 😅
You reminded me of americans saying I can do whatever I want because I am american when they are out of the country.
And then act surprised when they get kidnapped lmfao
@@ericktellez7632 *surprised pikachu face*
Who says that, idiot? Ive never met an American who was that cartoonishly obnoxious. Maybe you just need to hate someone, gets your little dick hard.
The most obnoxious tourists have always been the chinese. Clearly you’ve never left your mom’s basement.
Anyone else been getting a lot of prager ads since starting this podcast?
I got a shitload on Second Thought for a while. Then they just kinda... went away.
This is for the algorithm.
This too
this was a fantastic interview. it didn’t even feel like an interview; danny sounded like a regular guest! thoroughly enjoying these shows!
It was really good to hear about how Danny got into marxism. A lot of time his journalism talks mostly about geo-politics. Hearing more about his own politics is interesting.
Honestly I like that you guys are addressing the nuanced take on the identitarianism in America; for a long time I was firmly against it because by and large I saw it as easy to co-opt by Capitalism, cited by Pop Feminism, LGBT, and what happened to BLM. These movements got picked up by massive corporations and subsequently squashed. I recognized it as important for these groups to receive their equality, but simultaneously didn't think we should allow the narrative to focus _so much_ around them. Not only did it give corporations a free ticket to hop on the bandwagon and always take over these movements, but it served to alienate people who already feel as though they aren't being listened to, to instead focus on _black_ poverty or _black_ healthcare. Of course these things are important, but poor white people are still numerically higher in America and just ignoring them flat-out to give special call-outs to other races turns them away and, exactly like you said, gives credence to the Republican talking points against "Wokeness". You guys have talked before about getting people down the left pipeline, but that's not language that appeals to a normie, regardless of how anyone feels about it.
More importantly I struggled with talking to people from these movements because they oftentimes had zero interest in class consciousness, or if they did it was only to facilitate their own ends. I've spoken to people who proclaim to be "Socialist", only to find out that their Socialism is conditional on minorities getting help first. They didn't give a fuck whether or not we truly changed the system, they only cared if we changed the system _for them_ and would happily drop their flags if they got what they wanted. It made me hate these movements (not the people or groups, just the ideas and movements around them), I viewed them as short-sighted and honestly just self-interested in the fight for long-term equality.
Then later I slowly recognized that, regardless of how I feel, there's nothing I can do to make these people not care about these movements or ideas, even if they were regressive. So now I'm in this weird middling soup of "What the fuck do we do? How do we change the dynamics of this situation? How do we focus the topic on class while still giving fair comment to all these other factors?"
I think you have to do it with a "yes and" attitude. You can give leftist analysis of why the system reinforces many of these systemic racism issues. But at the same time, you also have to acknowledge that not everything will be fixed by switching to socialism. There are still other things which will have to be done to address historical and current influences of racism. So from your side you admit that, and hopefully from their side they see how socialism achieves many of their goals in a sustainable way. Build the coalition through mutual understanding. You have to remember many minority groups are used to grand promises from the left (even if they are not really the left, that is how it looks) and then just being used for votes then tossed away. So they are very skeptical about any of this unless you show you are truly listening. I do agree with you that the left does a lousy job of reaching out to poor white people in general. it is definitely something we need to work on. But I don't think it means sacrificing support for minority movements. It, means finding the right way to frame things for them. "Yes, these minority groups have issues AND so do you, this how we also address your issues".
@@tkdyo So I'm a bit of a history buff, and while it's not a perfect comparison I think about the strategy of Otto Von Bismark to unite Germany as an idea in people's minds. He put soldiers in mixed units, built a sense of community and loyalty to these people under a single identity. He wouldn't call someone Prussian, or anything else; to him, they were German, and it worked to unify them better than anything else.
I think that by partitioning people by race, you necessarily make people feel divided, you pit them in an us vs them mentality. We see it everywhere, regardless if these people are reactionary or not, we know it will happen.
But by that same token, people do identify with their in groups so you can't ignore those groups either. You can't just talk to poor people broadly and expect that to immediately resonate with black people who identify strongly with their race.
But you're then stuck between addressing multiple groups, or individual ones, and trying to strike that balance to build that initial unity.
Not everything will be fixed, no, but I think we also have to make our movement with a very clear goal in mind, instead of constantly trying to list off a dozen caveats and make everyone happy, when we've already been set at each other's throats by Capitalism.
I could probably write a whole book and argue with myself over and over again because I can see both sides and I feel like we're trapped.
This was eye opening to hear from a perspective of growing up in America from an unprivileged background. How they keep the poor as always poor and the rich in their bubbles. You never learn empthy because they divide the class.
This is not a bad little podcast, I’m a pretty secure anarchist but your guy’s stand points are interesting.
😉 Diversity of Tactics
@@TreeHairedGingerAle well, reading Lenin then listening to Leninists at least let’s me know their views
Easier to abolish all unjust hierarchies in a communist society than in a capitalist one.
Anarchists and communists have way more in common than either does to a capitalist/liberal. It may not be apparent in 'online only' circles, and may also not have a particularly great historical record, but we can do better.
@@Tetragrammaton22 I guess in the most reductive sense anarchists, are communists that don’t want to wait
I LOVE THE ANIMATIONS, also great interview!
I donated $100 to your capitalist Patreon account.
Fuck, we might actually be able to win. I think the only way global socialism could work is if the US becomes socialist, or becomes irrelevant, but due to my material conditions being unusually good, I'd assumed the conditions of the average American were better. But it turns out my net worth is somehow higher than average, which is absolutely insane. I've got $2k in the bank, nice clothes, a good computer, a place to live, and semi-wealthy relatives who can pay for college if I pick the local technical college. Everyone should have the equivalent of that.
I guess I've finally realized my own privilege. I'm used to thinking of my family as poor, because we used to always have money-related troubles, but now we have a literal chandelier, and before the pandemic, my parents would have maids come over every week to clean up. I guess that's the power of them being from genX, and having some generational wealth.
Keep the generational wealth. Dump the capitalist blinders. The revolution can use a few -bourgeois parasites- wealthy patrons. :-)
@@fun_ghoul I guess so. And it just makes sense to support it, even from a purely selfish perspective- my parents got lucky, I might not. If we achieve socialism, I'm practically guaranteed healthcare, a job, and a home.
@@henryfleischer404 I'm glad you're starting young, but I wouldn't count on socialism being realized in your lifetime. Hope for the best, plan for the worst...
@@henryfleischer404 The key is that you can be of the owner class and still side against your class interests on the basis of pure morality and long-term thinking. There's nothing wrong with that.
remember engels
Yo you guys need to have viewers call in on the show classic “radio show” type shit and I also have questions and inquiries I would love to call in to ask
Great ep and guest
jt we need more episodes im hooked XD
Can you guys do an episode about your opinion with the war in Ukraine please?
Second thought already made a video on it.
God I remember the first time I got into a political argument with my brother I rebutted the MAGA line with, “But America already is great.” I wasn’t the best at logic back then, seeing as I was deprogramming myself from fundamentalist Christianity after indoctrinating myself via fundamentalist pastors on CZcams. Yeah, nine year old me had the logical capacity of a bloody potato. I also tried to make a socialist argument about class struggle but fell on my face because I didn’t know how to explain what I’d already kinda worked out in my head based on history class and some other observations. Me being scared of him due to his frequent verbal abuse and threats also didn’t help me in articulating that Trump was NOT the lesser evil.
Did JT and Yugopnik not have anything to say or had they just not read the book? This was really more of an interview than anything
Yeah they probably didn't read it.
for the algorithm
For the algorithm
i wish we heard- some more JT and Yugopnik in this episode
Okay my parents being involved in busing thought it in my best interest to get me something called an IEP basically this put me on the lower I was deemed to have a lower capability of reading from adolescence thus given additional funding for the school to help with the wages for the tutors who merely focused on preset out programs for people who were barely able to read / dyslexic. My comprehension is actually pretty high I was just never put in a position where I was expected to actually read more than a chapter.
My younger brother is now taking calculus in Middle School. Which good for him but I was asleep in my 5 years of remedial algebra. I once asked the teacher who got his job because he was a veteran, for help on a math assignment and he told me to figure it out myself. He was too busy trying to recruit the football-playing Meathead and drooling over the fifteen-year-old cheerleader.
Whom only received a 2.0 GPA average to keep them in their extracurricular activities because he gave them a allowed them to copy directly from the book during tests the book in which he pointed out that he doesn't know anyting he just looks at the book. Oh baby I'm bitter.
✌🏼❤️
Im 90% sure Yugopnik was passed out druck for half the episode
Nice
8:55 as an American high school student myself, I have never heard of this. Maybe its just an east coast thing. Sure, there are AP classes and stuff, but I dont see a racial divide in those classes. There could be an economic class one though, but there is no way to tell.
Some cases are more class division than race. I first hand experienced this in Texas
definitely was the case in my school. All the AP courses had just white kids in them. We had a not insignificant amount of black kids (about 30%) who were bussed in from a lower economic area through school of choice, and not a single one were in the AP courses. How much of this was just the general rough home lives experienced in lower income areas and how much were due to selection bias from the school? Who can say. I'm sure it was a mix.
1:02:25 Somebody may have noticed the topics.
comment for the hecking algo
You guys should collaborate with the youtuber the kavernacle
What's the food on the table in front of Yugopnik?
@L what is it made From?
@L yeah I thought it was cigars at first then saw the onions and wondered. Sounds kinda good
Chevap and lepinja. Chevap or Ćevap is ground meat with various seasoning, and lepinja is basically a flatbread. It's eaten with onions, and various other fresh vegetables as well. It's pretty popular in Balkan Slavic countries
For algorithm
Algo
33:40 **cough cough*...* Eileen Gu...
“The n word is said in a lot of communities” exactly the problem mate
15:10 I am someone from Massachusetts, and I am so sick of this type of behavior. Massachusetts, for many people who don’t know, and you will find us a lot in blue states, this isn’t as common in red states because the education in red states is bad, across-the-board, but in many blue states, there is a severe divide in education. We have some of the richest areas in the country, along with having some of the worst cities in the country. I’ll give you an example, Connecticut is probably by far the worst example in New England. You have cities like Bridgeport and Hartford that are severely underfunded and will never get to enjoy the same economic opportunities people in Connecticut suburbs do. I live in a small town, about 8000 people in my town, and it’s outside of Boston by about 60 km on the North Shore. The local tennis court, which is simply just a recreational area that is part of a park for kids, literally has a sign that says non-Georgetown residents are forbidden from using the tennis court. I mean how much more fucking pretentious do you have to get?
15:00 reality often gets lost in these conversations. Like I am fully on this side and everything but the same time we also have to accept reality. Like the fact that the college I went to was perfectly fine before I went there, but the year I go they have to add sports and therefore bring in all of the piece of trash people that couldn't make it at good schools and their inner city black kids because you can't have a white person playing sports apparently. And those kids literally raped people and jumped people and made a huge mess of things. Those people were especially not supposed to be and not type of area. It was more of a hippie type school and they made a lot of those people leave because we aren't going to deal with that crap. It also it just reinforces stereotypes and gives a bad image for them. Especially when they show you that you literally can't trust them and they literally tell you that and they will literally try to jump you just for talking to somebody you know.
This just assumes all people of color cause harm, which is fairly racist
be honest, is this a guest you regret bringing on the pod in hindsight?
I am not sure that the ethnic minorities in China would agree with your views.
Why is that? Are you referring to the Uyghur situation?
The US is the most socialist country in the world it simply isn’t socialist for the majority. If you are born rich in the US and play along you will join the socialist party. The issue is the the ultra wealthy socialize everything and take care of each other while they pay for it with the rest of society. I think all of the bailouts should prove it to all. When we pretend we have to support private or public companies with taxes that’s a form of socialism which benefit the few in the in group at the expense of the many. They sell it to people by telling them how it helps the poor but all these bailouts help the extreme wealthy much more than any of the middle class ever will receive. The majority of people are socialist but don’t actually understand they are because the ultra wealthy make them believe that helping people means helping the helpless while helping corporations is helping the helpful. They are the same thing but the population don’t understand the difference. Boot straps for some and hand ups for others.
That's not socialism. It by definition isn't socialist. You need a different word to describe these things. Usually, it's referred to as welfare like a "welfare state" but in the case of the USA it's a "corporate welfare state", still not socialism.
Somebody needs to go back and listen to the "what is socialism" episode
Surprisingly intellectually lazy. Good to criticize American imperialism, but why then ignore other forms of imperialism? Are you seriously implying that China and Russia are not imperialist entities? I seriously don't get it.
Because they didn't mention they don't believe it or knows it exists?
@@yourdedcat-qr7ln Well I hope and assume they do. I just believe them to be really thoughtful people. And when they (very rightfully) criticize American imperialism, then procede to mention the "new alternatives" in the world order (foremost China, but also Russia) and juxtapose them, but then very much don't mention their imperialist behaviour, that is pretty wrong (or maybe just lazy, thus my comment)
It depends if you're using the real definition of imperialism or not, else it's shaky to say that China and Russia are imperialist by Lenins definition.
You might think that Russia invading Ukraine counts as imperialism cause usually now it is defined very broadly to mean the domination of weaker states by stronger ones. But empire building, colonialism and military competition have existed ever since states have existed.
Lenin's definition of imperialism was historically specific. For Lenin, imperialism was distinct because it represented--and was the product of--a new stage in the development of capitalism.
"The briefest possible definition of imperialism is that imperialism is the monopoly stage of capitalism."
If you want to argue about potential imperialistic actions from Russia and China you'd have to start from there.
China and Russia have not been colonizing, or starting wars to monopolize and get access to resources like oil from Africa. However I'd love to hear from a more knowledgeable comrade express their own opinion on the matter. Hopefully not just another american blindly hating China and Russia.
Those aren't capitalist societies. The entire notion is capitalism pretends its better and all those others are the problem. Imperialism by definition is the dark side of capitalism so mentioning China etc isn't really relevant to the topic.
@@LeviathanLee Russia is definitely a capitalist country, and China is still largely capitalist.
Do not say the n word if you’re not black. You can’t be identifying as afro-Latin but calling someone the harshey r. Love the pod but dudes a little out of touch
😣 【ｐｒｏｍｏｓｍ】