I Was Born in a Country That Doesnât Feel Like Home - Bartholomew Joyce |
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 10. 02. 2023
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âYou are only free when you realize you belong no place-you belong every place-no place at all. The price is high. The reward is great,â Maya Angelou
I said these words to myself in the morning w/o knowing itâs an actual quote. Thank you for putting it out here. Made me feel better. Hugs đŒđ»đžđđ§ž
The feeling of not belonging where I was born is exactly how I feel. I was born in Sao Paulo and lived 25 years in a favela, when I was 15yo I decided to start working and studying english on my own to be able to immigrate to Europe, I never built any roots in my country because my focus was always to leave it behind. Only when I was 27yo I had the opportunity to work for a french startUp and I moved to France, the day that I got my visa, it felt like my life was starting at this point. Every time I travel to neighbor countries in Europe, I feel "Home sick", not from Brazil but from France. That's the first time I feel home in my life, it's such a great feeling to be able to not feel invisible in my own place.
OMg
. that is just my story as well... I was 20 when I came.to the Netherlands and I felt home from the first second I arrived here ..but yet..I will never be Dutch..even after 27 years..living here . And I don't feel like a Brazilian even tho I lived there the first 20years of my live...
As an Argentinean immigrant living in Spain since 2001 (22 years), I can relate SO MUCH with everything you both said. This year I went back to Argentina after 22 years and it was such a psychological and emotional shock. Nobody here or there understood why I never went back. I steel think a lot about that. The thing is that I don't feel fully Argentinean, but also not Spaniard and I have already spend more time here than in Argentina. This topic was so personal to me that I wrote a thesis about identity and language accommodation, I interviewed 102 Argentinean immigrants here in Spain and let me tell you that your troubles are their/our troubles... So interesting that these are "common human conflicts" regarding identity and sense of belonging. Thank you for sharing such a wonderful conversation, what a start to the podcast!
Dame 3 años y estoy alla!
HĂĄ uma mĂșsica de uma banda brasileira que diz assim:
"NĂŁo sou brasileiro, nĂŁo sou estrangeiro
NĂŁo sou de nenhum lugar
Sou de lugar nenhum."
Ăs vezes, me sinto assim.
you should call yourself an ARGENTINIAN EXPAT ?? estos inmigrantes supremacistas ( British & American ) usar el termino expat para evitar referirte a inmigrante Americano o Britånico es patético !! y no se dice Spaniard, es Spanish .. spaniard es el peyorativo que se utiliza para Spanish (sufijo -ARD = bastARD, ) parte de la hispanofobia Inglesa ... Malvinas Argentinas !! que pena que los Argentinos hayais perdido la identidad, todo gracias a Inglaterra y a USA !!
â@@temkoxtranqui, asĂ como te vas, vas a querer volver. Te lo garanto ya mismo, por mĂĄs que ahora ni se te cruce por la cabeza y pienses que estoy loco. Simplemente acordate de este comentario, abrazo!
@@FrancoAlvarez-cp3ko xd, sin ofensa. Pero no todos son como vos y no sabes cĂłmo es la vida de los demĂĄs. Ya he emigrado una vez, se lo que es y lo que conlleva. Saludos!
It's actually something I've spent a lot of time thinking about as well. It's hard to put my whole life in several sentences, but I'll try to keep it short.
I was born in Siberia, and later on, at the age of 13 (~ end of 2002), moved with my family to another region of Russia. That was the moment when I lost the feeling of being at home. I had changed a few cities since then, but never got that feeling back until one day I had a short trip to Austria (Vienna), where I just left a train and immediately felt at home. - I didn't know the people around me, I saw the surroundings for the very first time, yet there was something so special about the place that it all just clicked.
And even though I'd dreamt of moving to New Zealand and had the at home feeling in Austria, when the time came to emigrate, different circumstances led me to Belgium (Brussels). If I had the "right" passport (from any EU country), I would have probably still be living there. Though, overly stressed work with no prospects made me decide to finally quit my previous career, and it meant that my work/residence permit was going to end and I'd need to go back to Russia for a couple of years. During my last day at the office, one of my Flemish colleagues, who was of strong principles, loved Belgium with his whole heart, and didn't like how immigration was handled there (e.g. "parallel society" and other things Belgium currently suffers from), he told me something along the lines of: "I'm sure Beligum would have benefited if you were to stay". - Wow. I wasn't a Belgian by any standards, didn't speak any of the local languages, nor wasn't super-aware of local customs, but still that Flemish guy thought that I belong there. It almost made me cry on my way back from the office...
Throughout the next ~2 years in Russia, I had a chance to reassure myself that my mentality didn't match the place I was born in. Eventually, I emigrated to the Netherlands and has been happy about my surroundings since then. Literally, there had been no day for the last 18+ months when I wouldn't think about how happy I am to be in the NL. I even like the local weather a lot :) I didn't learn to love Amsterdam, though found several other cities within the country where I thought "oh wow, I want to live here". It's still too early to say how Dutch I can become, but I feel like I belong here, and I'm ready to melt in :)
Every country has its ups & downs. Some more than others! Iâm born & raised in the Netherlands but Iâve never really felt 100% that I belonged there though.
Born in Miami (it should not be considered part of the US), moving as a child to Colombia, and moving back and forth from the US to Colombia several times, along with moving homes at least 20 times in my lifetime, def made me grow up with a sense of not having a place to call home and never felt purely American nor purely Colombian. You guys are on a boat that is incredibly huge with a whole lot of people that is just as lost as you guys. It is awesome to have seen/heard this podcast. Another great one from you brotha Drew. Keep it going.
I was born and raised in Brasil and never felt quite at home, also probably the least Brazilian person I knew. I always had this urge to move away and for some reason I had Germany in mind. After living 6 months in Portugal, and then moving to Germany and being here for two years by now, I've never felt more Brazilian and more proud, even if I am "less" Brazilian every day. I consider the marriage between my German and my Brazilian part to be the best it could have been for me, as if it compliments me somehow. I resonate with the idea that Bartholomew shared of people having the same struggles even in completely different situations. I mostly think that the biggest gain we have as an "outcast" in our own nationality and/or environment is that we are less attached to our Ego per se, and with that we are much more open to shaping ourselves to what fits us and to what life brings to us. We realize it sooner in life, which doesn't mean that others don't have to go through the same thing.
For me itâs the opposite! I grew up in Germany and since Iâve been to Brazil once I go there as often as I can. I hope that one day I can live there! But itâs tough to find a job in which you get paid well đ
Letâs see where life takes me :)
@@ruth7152 That's so sweet! It is indeed hard to find a job that gives as much security and comfort as here in Germany, but I also know so many people working in IT making so much money haha I wish you all the best in your search :) And in learning Portuguese!
I'm so happy that Bartholomew also mentioned people who grow up in one culture/country, with parents coming from this very culture/country, without any family backstories of international migration, and yet they still feel they don't belong there and wish to move somewhere else.
It's exactly my case, I was born in Poland to both fully Polish parents, but I've never felt Polish at all. Most of the time when I listen to conversations on multiculturalism, I feel excluded, since the multicultural people who talk about this issue all have family backstories of migration and seem to treat them as a requirement for others to be able to identify as 'those who don't belong where they were born and raised', which of course "disqualifies" individuals like me.
Anyway, this topic is extremely interesting and thank you for such a great conversation that we were able to listen to!
Great point! I never intended to be exclusive in how I spoke about this but can totally see how that could accidentally happen. Really glad to hear you could connect with the message regardless.
Really enjoyed this conversation. I had lived in 5 countries by the the age of 17 (I'm now 25 like both of you haha) and the most 'at home' I felt was one year in an international school where every other kid had the same background as me. I definitely seek out or connect more with people with similar backgrounds or people who have travelled extensively. I have accepted that I'm always the outsider/visitor no matter how long I stay in a place and I really value the sense of freedom it brings me :)
This concept is enlightening to me. Before I begin, have you ever heard of past lives? I think this may be the reason why people have a connection with a certain culture when they grow up. Like me, as an black American growing up in NYC, Iâve always had a DEEP connection with Latin culture. Iâve learned Spanish since I was a kid since I love the language, some of my closest friends are Spanish, i love dancing bachata and salsa, I even love the women lmao. Speaking of which, as I got older I really realized how close I vibe with certain cultures. Mexico is a perfect example. As i was an adult trying to improve my Spanish to fluency in 2020(since the USA system of learning a language is ehh) I really connected with Mexicans, as their free, caring personalities really matched mines! I have a lot of good friends there, and even crushes lol. My first love was from there as well believe it or not! Anyways, I always enjoyed being who I am and the black culture, whether itâs music, tv, food and more. But unfortunately you can be demonized as a black person if you date outside your race by other blacks(not all are the same, of course.) or do things that arenât conventionally. But ehh I donât follow that rule lol. Asit can get very tiring being black(not that I regret it) since you have all this pressure on what you SHOULD do. I get that it can be out of love to care for the culture since blacks have had a hard time loving themselves(other times are more spiteful) And I say you can do both, love your culture and love others. Weâre more then just the âcultureâ we are. Cultures shift and change, and the bloodlines wonât always be pure forever. Humans just arenât built like that. a powerful thing I like to say is that we are universal, and we embody every culture and human being. Just a matter of realization. And lastly of past lives, I did a meditation on that and I found out-not sure if it was true, but an intuitive feeling that I was a Mexican woman living in the 1960âs. I was an excitable, passionate, and a free soul. Just like I am now. Some things are just meant to be:) so I embrace all parts of who I am. itâs all love anyways:)
That you so much for this comment! Itâs truly connecting to me and I am honestly thinking of making a video about slightly this similar topic!
I loved Bartholomewâs clarity. I could relate to that so so much. Great topic!
Internal Displacement is a real thing for bicultural/multicultural people for sure. Struggled with this as well being first generation âAmericanâ. However, I am grateful for it because it fueled my curiosity for the world and prevented me from identifying with being from one place just because I was born there. Thank you for opening this conversation!
Ok I didn't know this term I'll have to look into it a bit more!
@@nobackupplan Not sure if itâs a real term but we could make it one! Lol
Internal displacement is a migration-related term, but itâs actually not about identity. Much like a refugee, it describes a person whoâs been forced to leave their home because of things like war, famine, political persecution, or natural disaster. Unlike a refugee, this person remains in their country of normal residence, internally displaced, not seeking asylum in another county. While this conversation resonates with me as someone who lives also outside my country of birth, and someone working as a migration researcher, I would discourage using a term like âinternal displacementâ in the context of this conversation
@@ZacharyStrain Interesting, glad I learned this today!
I learned an archetypal paradigm in grad school that changed my way of looking at life and every individual....archetypes explained as universally present energy patterns within the psyche, manifesting in life, and molding all human experience. For instance, one of the archetypes I have strongly is the Teacher/Traveler. I would guess this one is also strong in both of you, along with many other strong ones. But we are never just one archetype; we have all of them though some will be very weak (not in a negative way). Understanding this helped me accept and work with myself as well as helped me recognize my gifts and learn how to share and serve with these energies. Here are the 12 archetypes in the system I was taught. Teacher/Traveler, Warrior (pioneers of change), Mystic, Nourishing Mother, Spiritual Mother, Artist, Communicator, Elder Leader, Dark Mother, Golden Child, Idealist, Lover. My prof told me he had never seen anyone with so many strong ones (I had something like 7 or 8 strong ones) while most people have 1 or 2 strong ones. This brought the realization that I would never be able to fully develop all the strong ones (I was already 50 when I learned this) but would need to express them all to some extent, when they came forth, in order to have any contentment in life and to reduce tension between the strong energies. I'm 71 now and still don't know where I belong on the planet! But I do still have high hopes of finding like-minded people one day.
I find your talk with Bartholomew so interesting. After my first 18 years growing up in the Midwest, I traveled for one year with an international group. That experience touched my soul. I didn't recognize it then. But 8 years later I met my Mexican husband in California. My life blossomed when we went back to his home in Mexico City for a short visit and stayed 11 years! I had found my place.
We returned to the US in 2000 for family for almost 20 years always with the idea to return to Mexico. My happy place!
We are now back in Mexico permanently, living a more peaceful and joyful life. We found our perfect spot in a small and delightfully slow town. From my very first experience in Mexico so many years ago I realized "soy Mexicana en mi corizon". I am (and have always been) Mexican in my heart!
Thanks for sharing your many thoughts on the subject. Keep doing what you're doing!
The podcast is really great. I'm excited for what to come next. Nailed it.
Thank you Zac!
I'm from New Mexico, and I very much feel connected to my heritage there. When I would travel to other states I'd realize my state was unique in landscapes, history, and cultural heritage
but It's something I've slowly observed that's being lost due to the expansion of what I call "Wal-Mart" culture or just the modern post-industrial culture of the USA that consumes all in its path.
I ended up leaving at 21 to Paris, moved around to Italy, Spain and now I'm a Spanish citizen at 28 and honestly, I do feel accepted by the people here, But I'll never lose my accent, and I'll never be a Spanish person in the same way somebody that grew up here.
I don't want to, I'm not ashamed to say where I'm from.
Where in New Mexico I live in Santa Fe.
I have lived in Santa Fe for 31 years. I love living in New Mexico, I feel very at home here
I relate to your feelings on not belong in America & the strange defensiveness from loved ones when I express that. I come from parents who are rural Americans, & it deeply disturbs them that I don't consider myself to be patriotic. But we all deserve to live in a place where you feel welcomed by the community & where those around you share the same values & lifestyle choices as you.
I think you summed up this conversation very well; it is just being human :) We all share this sturggles and difficulties, even though we may come from different backgrounds. I've spent a lot of my time wondering about the same concepts; sense of belonging and feeling the urge to finally feel that I belong but to this day I wasn't able to feel it. I was born in Poland but my parents come from different countries; my dad is Ukrainian and my mom is Polish. I grew up in both cultures, we lived in Poland but I was visiting my family over in Ukraine every year since I was born. We stayed there for a month or two, which gave me the ability to assimilate more and make friends. I learned to speak 3 languages at once thanks to that: Polish, Ukrainian and Russian. I never felt fully at home anywhere, living in Poland I felt like I'm Ukrainian and being in Ukraine people would refer to me as "this girl from Poland". When I was in school, around 9-10 years old, I was asked to write a paper on what "being at home" means to me. So I wrote I have two homelands :D I feel this to this day, and at the same time, I guess I developed lack of a sense of belonging to my hometown in Poland because of that. I saw how people would treat my dad, even though he speaks Polish and is now living there for almost 30 years, they would still refer to him as an "outsider", I never felt connected there and from as long as I can remember, I wanted to leave my hometown and never return again. I lived in different cities from the time I turned 18. I'm 27 now and I live in Krakow, Poland. I love it here but it's still not "my" place. I guess I will never be able to feel at home anywhere but I grew to accept that. I could be going on and on and on about this but wanted to keep this short haha
Thanks for this Nathan. Iâm in a bicultural marriage (US and Spain) raising a trilingual daughter with two passports. When I hear this conversation, I think about what she might say in 25 years.
Also, your mother is very correct about young mothersâ vocabulary shrinking. I hope it doesnât last forever! đ
I relate to so much of this. I didn't have a sense of belonging in the states and had a desire for something different but it took me much longer to act on it due to a variety of life situations and experiences- Now I am living in the Netherlands and couldn't be happier. It's so cool to hear you perspectives. I also have shifted so much even in 7 months. I truly loved everything about this, and it was such a joy to listen to. Thanks for having this discussion and posting it here.
I believe that one's sense of familiarity, whether with the known or the unknown, is shaped by the influence of parents and relatives. Growing up in a family that frequently migrated, particularly on my mother's side, I witnessed relatives coming and going from a very young age. While my father's side remained rooted in the country and seldom discussed other nations, my stronger connection with my mother's relatives normalized the concept of immigration for me. I distinctly recall contemplating the idea of moving to another country from a young age. Even though I have lived in another country, my sense of identity is not exclusively tied to my country of birth or the current country I live in now but is deeply rooted in my family. Some of my family members have also immigrated, and I find my identity most closely aligned with theirs when I am with them. I vividly remember my mother visiting me and my sister, and in that moment, I felt a reconnection with my identity through the bonds of family.
Iâm so excited to see what conversations are to come on your podcast. As someone in their late 20s that relocated during the start of the pandemic, this has only exaggerated my feelings of searching for belonging. Iâve been feeling so disconnected from the city I live in. I cannot begin to express how helpful this podcast episode was. This truly came at a time I needed to hear it. Itâs reassuring seeing others navigate these same thoughts/feelings, as I lack a support system still. Looking forward to seeing whatâs to come. Thank you for sharing as always.
Super, super real. I was born in Milan, Italy and moved to the US at the age of 8 and my parents are Filipino. I've never felt Filipino American, or American, or Italian, or Filipino enough. Being a child of so many diasporas can make "home" a really arbitrary concept.
This was such a relevant conversation to my life, which is probably why I've gravitated towards your work for all this time. Undeniably, your decision to start a podcast was a brilliant move. Thanks, as always!
agreed!!!!!
I agree with Bartholomew that people who grows upp in different places can become more individualistic. For good or for bad ! Greetings from Sweden !
This was a really cool conversation. Culture has always been a difficult and confusing idea for me. I'm born and raised in the U.S. and so are both of my parents, but I am mixed race. My mother is Black and Latina, my dad is of Irish and German descent. They grew up in wildly different Americas, born just at the time when the U.S. began to racially integrate. I can't name one food that represents "my culture," or a song or a dance. I don't really know what "an American" is supposed to be--I always knew that I was part of a small minority and always had to explain my race/ethnicity to others. Although I am an American, it's never meant anything to me, and when I leave the country I really don't miss it.
This is my favorite podcast now. I am a 14-year-old Portuguese kid and for 5 years now I have known that I don't belong in Portugal.
I can totally relate to this topic. It breaks my heart because I live in a country that I don't consider home but I can't leave. I'm stuck. I feel incredibly unhappy even though I live in my motherland. I don't feel like I belong.
love this conversation! my wife, toddler & i are moving to Italy next month for Italian citizenship so itâs cool to see how beneficial it can be to grow up in multiple places/different countries!
Culture is only one part of who we are, and it does not fully define our identity or sense of belonging. Your geographical environment, internal thoughts, what we learn throughout life and your personal relationships are the other ingredients in the recipe. And those ingredients also change in proportions/importance as time goes on. Each human being will decide for himself which part of them is most important at each moment, sometimes without realizing it. "With the same ingredients you can produce different recipes, and the same recipe will never taste exactly the same" ....... Thanks for the video and your new "youtuber" approach.
Amazing comment!
As someone from south America I completely agree, I think it's a bit exclusive saying "America" for just one continent
Yeah! love this new format of content here. i'm looking forward to the next conversations!
I'm so excited about this podcast! It is always a pleasure to listen to what you have to say, Nathan
Having moved cities many times and having lived in 3 countries, I resonate with your struggle. When I moved to France, the 'belonging' question was often on my mind, I felt like I would be an outsider forever. Moving to the Netherlands, I didn't want to 'belong' or 'become Dutch', I simply see the country as a season in life. Belonging to me has been forming connections to others, building a community and re-thinking what I define as beloning. The questions I've had, have led me to be able to construct a sense of belonging within myself regardless of the country I'm living in. However, I've never moved to a place that I was fully in love with. I hope to, one day, and wonder how that will change my perspectives. I agree with Bartholomew in the sense that I believe I will never fully be of the specific culture I'm moving to, but I see the beauty in that as well.
So glad you started a podcast. Iâm sure this will end up being one of my go-tos
40:05 I'm from Brazil. My parents are from Brazil. My grandparents are from Brazil. And in many ways, I don't feel connected with the country. I love some aspects of the culture. But not others. I love the ground in which I stand, but there are so many wrongs written in it...
I never left the country, but I will. Some years from now, let's if this perspective changes. I know it will, but how is what I don't know.
First thought. Bartholomew most definitely underestimates how articulate he actually is, and to some extent itâs true for both of you, guys. He just emphasized this feeling more, this is why Iâm mentioning him. I really enjoyed the way your ideas unfold in this conversation, and how you were able to bounce them off of each other. I totally get the fear of sounding dumb. As a non-native speaker of English myself I get that pretty often. I also have experienced being recorded for a podcast, which felt so awful and awkward. As soon as you turn the recording device on, everything changes in the room. So, I hear you! However, as a self-proclaimed lover of deep talk and language enthusiast, I swear you both are FINE †More than just fine, youâre excellent at communicating your thoughts in a way that makes sense to me as a listener. Would love to hear/see another episode featuring you two.
It's Saturday night here in India. I am about to have dinner and then head to bed because I had a tiring day today.
But first, I'll like this video as I know it will be amazing! And second, I'll spend my Sunday morning coffee with the video and then report back here with my thoughts. đđ
Second Comment -
Finally saw the episode and boy do I relate to it.
The problem Bartholomew and you are facing about not relating to one country, I am facing that problem being in the same country but not relating to any one state. Let me explain.
I am from India. And you cannot even imagine the diversity of this country. Even I donât get it sometimes. Every state has its own culture, language, food, and lifestyle. And I donât feel like I belong anywhere.
My origins are from West Bengal state, that makes me a Bengali. But here's the catch - I can't read or write Bangla, and when I interact with native Bengalis they understand I am not actually from their community.
I am born and brought in New Delhi city, which is cosmopolitan so you'd think that you'd find your circle, but no, too much diversity led to not relating to anyone.
Now I am living in Ahmedabad city of Gujarat state. I can't read, write, or speak Gujarati. My food habits are different. I find no like-minded people here. And though people are friendly when they realise there's nothing that connects us together, they slide away from you and into their familiar.
Plus, I have noticed religion also plays a major factor. I am not super religious but I can't deny its impact in my upbringing.
In New Delhi, I easily found Roman Catholics and we enjoyed ourselves in Christmas. In Ahmedabad, Christmas is the most painful time for me because there's no other celebration (or even enthusiasm) to do anything else other than attend the mass.
Earlier I thought that I wasn't getting comfortable to Ahmedabad because I was still a "Delhiite." Last December I visited Delhi and I realised that I don't even relate to New Delhi anymore.
So when it comes to belonging to a place, I am in No Man's Land.đ
BRAAAAAVOOOOO!!!!!!! AMAZING. You're a natural. Amazing interview and such fascinating points. Watch out world, this is going to be one amazing podcast. It already is. Lemme just say amazing one more time!
I'm from the US - I grew up there as did my parents and grandparents, etc. And yet, since my teen years I've felt a gnawing at the back of my mind. I thought I just didn't fit in with my peers (which in a sense is true), but really, I wasn't living some place that best alligned with my interests and values. (I've since moved to Europe.) At one point Nathaniel, you say something about feeling like something is wrong with you. I say it's the opposite; you're fine, you're just in the wrong environment. And as humans, we want to adapt and we defintiely are good at it. But like a how a dog may enjoy swimming and being in water, in the end he's a land animal and will feel best living not in the water but on land. So you don't have to force yourself to adapt to a paradigm that doesn't fit you. Change what and who is around you and find those people who resonate on your frequency.
This video sums up what I've felt my whole life! Thank you for making me feel less alone! I really resonated with the bit where you said that we felt some kind of rejection from our "home" country and not finding the connections we seek. I think that definitely has shaped my identity, not resonating with my home culture and also feeling rejected by it. I too continue to seek a place where I feel I belong. I just moved and will be looking to move again, perhaps this curiosity is not a bad thing. Thanks for making me feel seen and understood.
Beautiful honest conversation. To me THIS is what it takes to feel connected and belonging to a place! Well done, more podcasts please!
8:01 love this point, I strongly relate! I struggle to articulate myself quite often in regular conversation. Abstract musical expression feels so much better for me đ
Really enjoyed the pace and flow of the conversation. You can really tell you are good friends (it was a good idea to start with those đ). Looking forward for future episodes!
Btw, I was born in Portugal from Portuguese parents and never felt Portuguese, so maybe it is something you are born with.
Actually I really enjoyed hearing two young people expressing the need for life experience. Bloody awesome. It's so unusual these days to express that so openly and honestly. As I drove through the city today I bemoaned how with my generation ( I am nearly 70 ) we grew up with the idea that age brought wisdom. But it's not necessarily true! It's just the length and width of life is so full of experience. It's sad too, as we grew with respect for elders and what they have learned and this world today its the young generation acting as though they have the knowledge before they get to the age marker of 'old'. Like a getting a black belt when you have been training for a couple of months. So good to hear your guest expressing his need to know. Bartholomew that's awesome.
Thank you so much for the encouragement!! This was a really lovely comment to resd
Very insightful conversation! It's interesting how you say that it's not just about connecting with a culture, but it's about the environment. I also think it's about what stage you are at in your life, which can influence how content you are in a certain place geographically.
As an Englishman living in Paris (previously Germany), I discovered that moving to a new place actually helped me feel more connected and feel more English. After meeting many international people, it really became a huge part of my identity as an expat and gave me immediate talking points with people. After returning home from my first expat experience, it was a strange feeling that part of your new identity disappeared as you blended back into the crowd.
Itâs amazing listening to this podcast as someone whoâs dealt with this problem from early teenage years. Only recently, when moving back to the country of my birth did I finally realise what you were saying, you begin to give up on belonging to a certain culture and you start to accept that you are different and you always will be no matter your efforts. Iâve found it to be really liberating. Thank you for this conversation itâs made me feel less alone
I was born in Moldova, my ancestors are Ukrainians, Polish and a bit Russians and balkan's Slavics. I moved to Russia as a child and now am living in Serbia because I don't feel like I should live in Russia, if I don't identify myself as Russian and also because of the war with Ukraine, where big part of my family lives. So, I felt it, I was struggling with it whole my life. Thank you, Nate!
feel that frustration as well... So sad!
Great podcast man! I could relate to a lot of things.
I really enjoyed this podcast and related a lot. I was born in the UK to Canadian parents and moved to Canada when I was young, but much of my family remains in England and Iâve always felt a strong connection to the UK.
This conversation was everything! I've wrestled with my own identity as a first-generation Indian-American immigrant for so long and it was so interesting to hear perspectives that I related to but also had never considered. I loved hearing Bartholomew's perspective of being forced to carve out your own path because you don't have a set one and as someone who comes from a community that very much has a path carved out for you - it's suffocating! I wish I came from more of a free background where everyone didn't do a similar thing because it feels like a stroke of luck that I chose to stumble out of it. I also loved hearing your background more in detail Nathaniel because I've always wondered about your disconnect with the Argentine background. One thing I've been thinking about recently is that there are multiple identities that count as "authentic." I don't feel as authentically Indian as people from India, but I'm a classical dancer and that's a heavily Indian experience that "buys" me belonging in that culture way more than people with different experiences. It's true that we may never belong to a place that we're not originally from, but different experiences are different slices of a culture and some of them are hugely rich parts of that culture. Hope that makes some sort of sense - would love more conversations on this topic with more people!
I feel the same. I'm someone who has ties to 3 different countries but also never really felt connected truly to any of those places even though i admire each of their cultures and have parts of them ingrained in me. however, its just difficult to find people with this similar sentiment since many dont open up on being lonely. the one thing that has helped me was to decide to craft my own identity. this is why i love learning languagues and the ability to pick who i want to be. would love to meet similar minded people!
Thank you for sharing this conversation and both of your perspectives on the topic.
I am Greek and I grew up between the US and Greece, but I never really resonated with either culture fully. After years of self reflection I do feel more Greek, but I still donât feel that I can truly express the hole âmeshâ even with my friends. I donât feel that I fully connect with them, even when the conversation is on a completely irrelevant note, because I always think in the back of my head that I grew up torn. Our family memories will never truly align. I have this huge urge to leave and try out new cultures, and itâs stronger than ever.
You mentioned that you needed to surround yourself with other people with the same sense of not-belonging or of multiple cultures. I have always tried to fit into the greek frame, but something is missing. I think I was not allowing myself to recognise this need before.
So thank you again for sharing your story on this đ
One aspect not discussed as much is how this often manifests in countries like the US more than others. While everyone does have their reasons, I do feel a common theme in the US is how many don't have a strong enough cultural pull to feel they completely belong. I grew up as a 5th+ generation American in the US's Midwest and felt this way since I was a teen. I personally believe excessive migration and the US's "growth at all costs" mindset (and now add social media) never really let the social "dust" settle for a stronger social culture to establish itself. The history of California's Gold Rush at Sutter Mills is an amazing example of why the "dust" hasn't settled yet in the US.
Yes, you work your a** off in the US. Yes, you "socialize" a lot in the US. Yes, you can make a sh** tone of money in the US. Yes, there's a very strong sense of consumerism that's hard to find elsewhere. But I don't find that this all equates to a truly strong social culture. And it's not completely the US's fault (though, currently, the US makes it harder for itself). It simply takes a LONG TIME for people (not a person) to develop a strong sense of social cultures and common history in a society. And once you discover individualism won't change nor fix that (maybe even makes it worse)... it sucks.
Take yourself to countries like Europe, Asia, etc. There are SO MANY languages, foods, customs, etc., that took thousands of years to accumulate and shift to what you see now. If you grew up in the US, didn't feel like you had a strong social culture to grab on to, and visit some of these countries, you can catch yourself feeling envious of those who grew up in these countries if you're not careful. And the more we travel, this envy can grow further, which may be warranted and say more about traveling or migration itself. Again, once you discover you can't fix such envy with individualism... it sucks, especially once you're starting a family.
My best advice for those who feel culturally, nationally, or socially lost: It's not where you are, it's who you're with. Please focus on the people in your life.
Source: Came from the US's Midwest, traveled and lived in multiple countries, and married into a family of refugees.
I connected so much with this conversation. I was born in Brazil but never had the sense of belonging there (even tho my entire family is Brazilian and no one had ever moved abroad). I moved to Canada on my early 20âs, became a Canadian citizen and moved to the Netherlands on my late 20âs. For the past 4 years I moved 2 times back and forth from Netherlands and Canada and vice versa, stuck with the feeling of not finding myself complete. And the journey is still on going. Good luck for us on our findings. đ
Thank you so much for this shared discussion. Iâm really glad I decided to spend this time listening to you two, it was enlightening on many levels!
The part on being a third culture child (a name I learned just now watching your video) and being more individualistic resonated a lot with me. I was born in France, raised by a Taiwanese mum who immigrated to France when she met my Indian father, who himself immigrated to France 25 years before they met. The contrast between a western culture like the French and the Asian culture is such a big mess haha! So itâs definitely nice to hear you guys and read about other people who have lived through this feeling of not belonging to the point of creating our own sense of belonging.
This conversation was great, I struggled with wanting to be part of it! haha or have similar conversations. I'm not a third culture kid but relate to it so much having never really felt connected to British culture or never felt like I fitted. British parents, lived in the UK for 21 years, then moved to France, Spain, Finland, went back to the UK for a couple of months and it just doesnt feel like home. Now travelling with my partner trying to look for somewhere to make our home. I have had momentary feelings of "I could live here for a long time" but starting to think that if no where felt home, no where will ever feel like home, just as you guys discussed.
The part about not picking the conflict and yearning to belong, resonated with me a lot. Questioning where it came from for me, has brought me to one of the answers: people pointing out my difference. Particularly in attending school in Britain after moving from a Caribbean island at the age of 6, teachers made a big show presenting me in front of the class year after year in primary school. It was anything from how different my hair was. Or I pronounced things differently and that trickled down to my peers. Comments like, "She's not from here, so that's why she does/ says/ is like that...' certainly didn't help me feel integrated. And so, it got to a point in my teens where I just thought, 'To hell with this! I'm just going to not belong and do what is good for me!' There are some other factors that definitely played into this feeling of displacement. But that was where it started for me. What compounds it further in my adulthood is the, "Where are you really from?' question.
Well ! I wasnât expecting to come across this video, I was subbed years ago but fell off and came back because one of your videos popped up on my home page.. Iâm a third culture kid, and itâs just been so hard finding my place and feeling confident in myself and who I am. My parents are Jamaican but donât look Jamaican, I was born in the US, and I grew up in Rome, Italy. I am now living in the US but I still havenât gotten over the issue of relating to everyone yet feeling like no one understands me⊠but it teaches you a lot about connection, and spirituality; it teaches you about what really matters in terms of being human.
I needed to hear this podcast. It gave me so much comfort and perspective. I'm actually watching this from Coventry, UK and I have been living in England for one full year now. I'm from Canada, and this is my first full year I've lived abroad. I grew up in Canada and feel Canadian, but always had a yearning for Europe. I always dreamt of moving abroad and finding this other culture. I don't know where that desire came from, and now after doing it for a year, I feel deeply home sick and miss the comforts of home. I don't feel at home in England, but also still want to keep searching to feel that here.
That's really interesting to hear, I was born in and grew up half in Canada and half in Poland. The entire time I was in Canada I felt a longing for Europe, but had something to back it up with because I had experienced that too. Definitely idealised Poland a lot while I was in Canada, and blamed all my problems on being there rather than here. Like Nathaniel, now that I'm here for longer, I can appreciate the things about Canada that are good, and my Canadian qualities that I like... but not enough to want to be there. I'd love to know more about what you didn't like there and what you miss, hit me up.
Fan number 1 of this podcast Nathaniel.
Bartholomew is amazing guest for this experiment. I loved how you discussed the difference of your perseption and experience. And yes, in the end humans need humans. As a mother of a 6yo whom I removed from his native culture and language and as a person who is a part of the most despicale nation in the world now, I felt so much joy and hope while listening to you two talk. Defining one's own identity is so hard and we better do it together and gently!
I was born in Portland, Oregon... Never felt like home! Always traveling and wanting to travel more.... Hawaii felt like a tiny bit of my home... then Mexico... places in France felt like I belonged.... Still looking after all these years.
I was born in Syria and I've never felt that I truely belong there. Eventhough my whole family is there, my friends, I lived there for 25 years but nope I don't belong there. I don't belong to the middle East, I don't belong the islamic world, I don't belong to the arab world. I felt sooo disconnected from the way people think and live in Syria and the war made it even worse for me to try feeling belonged and forget about searching for another place. About 6 months ago I left Syria to search for a place I could belong to. I live in Germany now. I'm still adapting to the new culture, to the new environment but I DEFINITELY feel more belonged here. I still don't know if Germany is the place I fully belong to but I do feel that this may be the place I've been my entire life searching for. I can understand what you had been going tbrough Nathaniel. It really hurts when you were born in a place that you don't feel it's yours.
I love that you did this show! I would love to join in one of your episodes. I got a lot to share.... I remember the past 8 years, I was so broke I couldn't even afford a meal. I had to realize that at that point that no one was going to walk me through things in life and I had to do this on my own and figure out everything alone. I now live in the nordic woods of Sweden and post about self improvement after surviving a great ordeal in life, from the Boston bombing attack to being homeless, depressed struggling with an anxiety disorder and other mental disorders before I studied my pain and got certified in therapy. I used it to heal and run my own business and also move out of Miami where I worked in a corner store overnight in one of the most dangerous hoods in Miami. I am so grateful I got out, because I knew the other route, and it was not going to end well. Now I have a CZcams channel that I am using to help others improve in life and I hope I get to help at least one person reading this đđœđ
Great conversation! I agree with Bartholomew in the part that he wondered about whether this issue with belonging is or not about having been raised in different cultures because I can testify that I had the same issue and I was raised in only one country and always wanted to change and go somewhere else, which I did for one year when I was in my twenties and then I returned back to my country and still I am planning on going somewhere again to a different country....I also love different cultures, but I feel that belonging and connection have to do more so with the people themselves
born in south africa
lived in america
lived in Italy
no place is home!
I really understand your search for home.
I love that you and your guest Bartholomew don't have it "figured out". It's okay! That is part of this process.
Enjoy the journey and all the best to you both.
I love this conversation. This makes me want to travel actually. Iâm Korean American, technically (legally) American born abroad. I was raised in the US, but because Iâm of mixed heritage, Iâve always been treated like Iâm not fully American. But my parents were required by the South Korean government to get a visa for me at 3 days old, so I was definitely not treated like someone born in Seoul either. My name means âstrangerâ, and that name was picked for me because of that odd cultural situation I was born into. Iâve often felt ostracized and alienated throughout my childhood, to the point where I considered legally changing my name. After hearing your conversation, perhaps I need to embrace the sense of mystery my name insinuates and visit other lands where I feel more at home as a âstrangerâ.
I feel so validated by this discussion you two had, so thank you very much for your vulnerability and openness in this episode. You guys helped me find a big puzzle piece for my life today. â€
Oh this so resonates - being a Danish non-native English speaking. I grew up abroad from age 0-5 learned speaking with three different languages as toddler (Danish, English, Farsi) I wonder if this has seeded my curiosity on cultural differences and languages... Now as a middleaged empty nester living abroad.
I was living in France for almost 4 years and my English went down the drain. Now I'm in Spain, in the middle of an English expat community... and realized that my mother tongue even got simplified - so now I advance my English (English with Lucy), try staying with my very simple French - and keeping track on my Danish and postponing learning Spanish. My German is quite broad, but really confuses my brain when jumping into... takes me a couple of days to get on track both ways! Travelling to Sweden is easy peacy - OMG if my brain sometimes get foggy I totally get it! Great conversation - you are both awesome! Thank you!
such an amazing podcast so far
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It takes a special person that will leave their culture and language behind and fully experience another. It is not for everyone. The feelings and questions raised here are so good, and they are younger people, and many of the commenters are younger people, but I can tell you those questions do not change with age or experience. I have come to embrace my otherness, foreignness, language errors. I realize that even if I spoke Spanish, French, and Catalan perfectly and understand the nuances of the culture perfectly I will still have an otherness about me.
It is ok, I have come to embrace all of the various parts and that of our friends. Sometimes you are in the tribe and sometimes you create your tribe. Where you are from is where you are from. The real question is what are you doing right now, and where are you content, and where are you going or staying. Moving abroad was the best decision and would not change a thing with something that changed everything.
Nathan. Merci de nouveau pas un autre podcast inspirante. I have the exact sentiments that I've never had a sense of belonging due to the different cultures of where I was born : Honkgong, American educated, english Canada as adult. I thought I was confused and instinctively never have a sense of belonging but your podcast made me realise this lack of identity (or mixed identity) is derived fr my varied upbringing and exposure to so many cultures. We are multi-faceted and it is not necessary to have 1 identity.
100%
This is brilliant! I'm a TCK also and your conversation was so familiar with my own thoughts on the matter. Born in England, but lived in America while young, my accent betrays English and American. In America I was always told 'You're English' and now back in England 'You're American'. As a child I found it very hard to grapple with. I'm very thankful identity isn't founded on what other people say, although both weren't wrong. Thank you for discussing it so well, I felt like I was in the room with you.
That last little bit is a major complement. Thank you for listen and for sharing! I hope you've been able to find solid ground to stand on. :)
I find this conversation intriguing. I was born in the USA. I have very âAmericanâ parents in the general sense. Yet, I think my motherâs disconnect to the world in front of her, shaped my views. Still, I believe that only moved me more firmly in what I was, a nomad at heart. Like you both, I donât have emotions tied to where I grew up. As a child, my family didnât influence my views. Instead, I found other cultures and peoples to be much more interesting and beautiful. In college I went to Costa Rica and felt so much more tied to it. I knew I was not âAmericanâ in my heart of hearts. Nathaniel, I agree, growing up here is a huge benefit. That does not mean I belong.
only 13 min in, but as a native English speaker studying abroad, I definitely relate to changing the way I've spoken English in order to accommodate the people around me, not in a bad way, but just in order to communicate properly, as opposed to the most accurate or eloquent way. I've made a lot of international friends, so it makes me wonder what it would be like to interact with them in their native language. I hope one day I can do that with some of them.
but yes my point is: this idea of feeling like you don't have practice being eloquent is something that I very much relate to!
I am a person from the Netherlands and I have always felt the same way.
I can relate to this so deeply.
The pure honesty of Nathanielâs is so magical and attractive
This is a beautiful conversation. I liked to hear both of you, Bart is a great guest. Globally Coventry is my next door neighbour so, interesting:)
Thank you!!
Hola, soy de Colombia y vivo en Alemania desde el 2017 pues me casĂ© con un chico de aquĂ. De alguna manera me sentĂ identificada con lo que comparten en Ă©ste podcast. Amo mi paĂs y mi familia quienes viven allĂ. Pero siempre quise vivir la experiencia de conocer otras culturas. En los momentos difĂciles, cuando me vi confrontada en mi identidad, la religiĂłn me ayudĂł a encontrar paz y respuestas. "Yo soy quien yo soy" y al final todos estamos de paso por la tierra.
Nicely done! Good topic
Glad you think so! :)
Same for me! I was born in Ukraine but moved to the Netherlands in my 20s and it feels so much more like home!
Very relatable episode, keep going đȘ
Not only do I see myself in this issue, which pains me since I sometimes feel like an outcast in a so self loving country (Greece), but I haven't been so immersed in a podcast since The Ground Up Show from Matt. Can't wait for the next episodes!
Keep them coming! Me encanta :)
Being born and raised 18 years in the US but coming from Latino parents I can relate so much with this episode. I do not connect with American culture and Americans can sense that but also I am not "Latino enough" and I have spent most of my 'adult life' in Spain...sooo it is always hard to answer the question of where I am from. Having a feeling of limbo for most of my life and not belonging lately has dimmed because as I am growing older I find different aspects of all the mixed cultures I embody and find the beauty of being built together by 'different pieces of different puzzles.'
Great job! đ Been watching for about a year, but never commented⊠sorry. I relate with what you say about not identifying with where you were born. Hope someday I can find where I belong, like how you found your place. đ€đŒđŹđ€đŒ
âHome is where your heart isâ
Hits home with me in a similar way. Born in the Venezuela, raised in the US but never really felt Venezuelan.
Born and grew up in the UK - went to university and began a career thereâŠ.and then got recruited to work for the US government so ended up spending the rest of my career in the US. Still donât feel 100% âat homeâ in the US. Lots of problems here following 4 years of Trumpâs idiocy and his coup dâetat attemptâŠ.but at the core is the almost absence of âplaceâ in the US. Some of the older cities certainly have thisâŠbut the endless, soul-destroying sprawl where there are no choices other than a car to get around; this - as many researchers have observed - plays a pivotal role in US culture and the deadly loneliness that afflicts millions.
SoâŠback to the UK or somewhere else? Its a question my wife and I talk about a great deal - especially these days. Sheâs from Michigan (Detroit) and received her Ph,D. From Edinburgh UniversityâŠa city she misses greatlyâŠ
Great videos BTWâŠtimely and insightful for sureâŠ
Yes yes yes. So get this. Never really thought others felt like this as all my circle of friends and acquaintances assoiate themselves with somewhere called 'home'. Born to dual national parents, I have no association with where I was born. Grew up feeling that. This can give a sense of loneliness at times, as you don't have that sense of belonging to what the world would label you as. But it also gives you a strength and individuality to make your own path. The world in consequence has been my oyster and I have enjoyed living in and travelling in a multitude of countries.
PS. This sense of not belonging to the land or culture you were born in is not a choice. It is something that direct your life. And, as someone decades older than yourselves, it does not change. It is simply, who you are.
I think the idea of making it a "Podcast" is more daunting than having the actual conversation(if that makes sense). I absolutely loved the more casual conversations you had with Johnny harris and Thomas Brag.
Don't worry, I'll work my way back to that :)
as a mixed kid a completely relate with what your saying, it has opened my eyes to peel this feeling of identity and belonging away from race which is what it's always been attached to for me. the race part definitely adds a later to it considering that I become a walking immigrant everywhere I go, and maybe never being accepted by any community. which in some way is a valuable experience never being at home is painful but is a unique experience that I think opens things up for me. idk this conversation was really insightful, thankyou nathaniel and bartholomew
I moved to Europe for school in 2022 from the US at 16 to finish high school. I'm not a third-culture kid. I'm third/fourth generation and feel very connected to my home city (maybe not the US as a whole, but certainly my city). Once I left, I knew I would never come back. It's been like that since I was eight years old. I've certainly been exposed to different cultures and different languages (my cousins moved to the country where I now live when I was small), but it's always felt so strange to try and explain wanting to leave. I explained this to a close friend once (she's Swiss) and she told me that she never saw me as American. I certainly do feel American, but I also feel topics surrounding this to be very relatable.
As a Brit, who has a genuine pride for British culture, I often find myself longing to be more ancestrally and culturally diverse. I think there are two types of people: people who maybe lack a belonging like yourselves, and those who belong too much and want to be different and explore new cultures. I'm personally coming to the end of my degree and trying to work out what my next steps are, starting work, continuing education, etc.
I've always had an attraction to Vienna, or what I remember of it when I visited for three days as a kid. I think I'm somewhat of a reluctant person, who may envision the idea of studying abroad, but the realities of committing to learn a new language, which wasn't one my strengths at school, alongside the bureaucratic uncertainty since Brexit stops me from committing.
39:30 i've lived my whole life in the Venezuela, my mom and dad are totally Venezuelan, I've always even lived in the same house since I was born. And I feel this need to see outside, not exactly that I don't fit in, just that I want to see more and that I'm not like everybody around me. Through youtube I've seen a lot outside Venezuela like many different things so sometimes I have a different perspective than my parents for example. In my opinion there is simply people that like to know what they have on hand, and people that are curious about what's outside or far away
Wow thank you so much for this video, I fully understand your search for a place you really belong to as I struggle with this towards France... being half french half British, I have never felt part of and understood the french culture (sense of humor, culture...) and do not feel aligned at all with it... and oh my I have traveled a lot and this enabled me to know what truly aligns with my personality, unfortunately, it"s not France.
Interesting conversation. My take on the story of feeling home is that I'm from Hungary, a small country in Europe. My parents and grandparents were also born here and so we had a strong sense of family and growing up with my cousins and all. But I always had this conflict of not quite identifying myself with this culture any more. Like it used to be small villages, people living in cohesion with one and other and nature and all, and now with the modern age coming with its individualism (and "we" hungarians blame it on the US and "the west" lol) and the church being led by government and all that stayed is just this nationalism and religion as a must. And it is only for feeling superior in some way or another and hating on everyone else. Also our own people like "are you not proud to be hungarian?!?!" and I'm like "yeah but what for exactly?" Oh and it makes it VERY hard to get out. Because you belong here and you want your future children to have that sense of belonging and having your family close, but then also you don't necessarily want to take part in all that the culture represents or puts on you, like I want true community, not competition and gossip. So yeah the other side of the coin can be challenging as well, if you're not blinded by nationalism. So I guess it does come down to finding belonging from within and in your immediate environment as no country is going to be perfect ever.
I understand this very well. I'm german but my soul is italian :) The first time I visited lago di garda I was like ~ ah finally. It was soooo relieving. Germans are very strict and pretty polite and rather neutral. I'm very passionate, flowy, outspoken, love food, love la dolce vita. A certain excellence and quality of life. It's weird I naturally gravitate towards products and shows and musicians that are italian without even knowing that they are :)
I feel like the thing that's overlooked here is that maybe we place more value in seeing how we are different. People who come from third culture backgrounds tend to value learning about different experiences, etc. in a way that (at least in the U.S.) many people do not (especially younger ppl in my experience). Everything doesn't have to be about sameness or how are we the same. I think that's the missing connection. We have a greater capacity to value diversity and difference.
Commenting again to say that Bartholomew should not be down on himself- he is very articulate and expressive! It may just be that heâs prone to self-critique or overanalyzing his own speech.