Copper Annealing
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- čas přidán 25. 10. 2007
- Copper Annealing. When copper is worked, meaning bending, folding, hammering, etc., the copper becomes more and more rigid. Continued work will cause the copper to fracture. To avoid this, it is time to anneal the copper.
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thank you for this clear example of cold work and annealing. This is very helpful for my material exam.
I'm just embarking on repousse and this is great info, thank you!!
Great video! I liked that you take time to explain the reason why metal becomes harder and brittle. ☺️
Excellent video. This was better than anything I would have understood by reading.
thanks for the help, your video helped alot to pass my metal work exam
Love ALL your videos. Thank you!
George, I love your videos and have learned so much. I am lucky to have access to all the roofing copper I need to play with. I need more hours in the day!
Thank you for the information, it is appreciated. I'm making a "Thermette" out of copper pipe and sheet stock. I'm forming caps from the sheet copper. Finished one with lots of hammering & no annealing. I'm definitely going to anneal the 2nd piece & hopefully make it easier on myself. Thanks again.
Thank you for this. Excellent explanation.
Very helpful video for my copper project. Thank you!!!
Glad that you like the videos. I'm with you, I like clear cut explanations without a lot verbiage.
Very good and informative as usual thanks a lot.
Nice video, thanks so very much for sharing. I appreciate it.
great video. i am going A2 level product design and this video has helped me alot!
this guy is great. great video.
VERY informative, thank you!
wow... the coloration of the copper, the second time you heated it up.. real nice.. thnx for the upload :)
Glad that the video was informative.
Thanks for the comment. I too am finding that viewing is my preferred way to get information. I like to read but sometimes it is more understandable when I can watch someone do something.
Appreciate the comment. Yes, annealing is key, when working with copper.
You are absolutely right. Copper is copper whether it is sheet, tube or plate.
I understand now .. thank you
How would you use this to make a round table top where the copper comes down the side of the top and maybe part of the way on the bottom of the top?
Glad that you are enjoying the videos. Will have another one up early next week.
Well it definitely got softer, so I think it kinda worked. Thanks!
Love your videos! So helpful...Are you still currently working and filming?
I agree, copper is an amazing metal. Thanks for watching.
George
Great! Sounds like you are your way to copper annealing.
Copper 0,5 mm?
great animation of the hands, and you have a great voice for video :)
Very good explanation; thank you very much! I am using brass photo etch for a 1:35 model, where I am also replacing "tubing" with copper wire. There are lines molded, but I like adding the tactile copper. Looks good after. Thanks!
+Jaroslav J. Peterka Good to hear that you liked the video. Sounds like you are doing some intricate work.
+George Goehl Hi! It is quite detailed. I don't know how to send you pictures, but would invite you to find me on Flickr, where you could see my photos under name "Crumb & Crust", or BR 86. Thanks again. I am annealing now every piece of brass or copper. Amazed how easy it is to bend!
thanks, great video! I plan to anneal a small copper head gasket. Is this do-able with a propane torch?
After you Annealing do you pickle it ?
Yes, about that. 24 to 26 gauge. Also listed as 16 oz. per sq foot.
what surface is that you're working on, with the torch? Thanks.
that is very informative..thanks ..:)
can i forge weld copper wire into a copper sheet buy weaving it the wire like thread into a sheet, heating it in a forge, and hammering it flat?
@RowanTaylor You're right. Many people do quench in water. I prefer air cooling but it's just a personal preference.
The flame looked like it was carburizing because of the large inner envelope. I tried it today, with oxy/propane and found that the neutral flame seemed too hot, I did it again with a slightly carburiing flame and it seemed to work better. Either way, it worked very well. Thanks
@coma22309 if you work with copper, such as hammering or bending, copper becomes more rigid. If you heat copper it becomes softer, more malleable.
Either way you are changing the internal structure of the metal.
Look up Annealing (metallurgy) in wikipedia
My table top is a 3 ft. x 4 ft. 1/2" mild steel.
I have been doing this for quite some time in order to shape 12 AWG wire to make shine still drippers for the condenser. Had no idea what it was called. I just tried to "smith" it one day, and realised it was soft after it had cooled and didn't need to be reheated for a while. Had no idea I had rediscovered the wheel. 🤣
Great Video! To anneal steel you must let metal cool very slowly, if you quench it the steel becomes very hard and brittle. However I have seen people quenching hot copper! Is copper different? Thanks!
Congratulations on your supply of roofing copper. It would be easy to spend a lifetime just working with copper.
i noticed this with copper pipes that have bin heated to red heat
You can either let it air cool or quench it in water. I prefer to let it air cool, but that is just a personal preference.
Hardening and tempering is a whole subject in itself. If you are interested there are some good CZcams videos for tempering metals.
unlike ferrous metals, you can anneal copper by quenching as well as air cooling.
I looked at that video again. Why do you think it was a carburrzing flame? For annealing I use a neutral flame.
As for propane, I have never used propane so I am not a good source of information.
Sir, I have no experience with forming copper but was wondering if it can be hammered while it's red hot and if that would help it remain soft (annealed) while it's being shaped - kind of like steel? Also, if a copper plate is folded on itself and hammered would the two layers eventually bind into one or would they just continue to thin out separately?
You are right, it would be more malleable when it is hot, but it will cool down fairly quickly. Eventually you will have to anneal. Also, I find it easier to handle once it has cooled from annealing. Folding sheets of copper is not something that I work with. I am not a coppersmith. You've got some good questions that you might post in a coppersmithing forum.
George Goehl Thank you.
Great
Thanks :)
You’re welcome
Yes, you can quench hot copper in water. I prefer to let the copper air cool. It's just a personal preference.
What is your table made of that you are able to anneal right on it?
1/2" hot rolled steel.
thanx for sharing
*thanks
hello!, i have a question , what happens when you heat cooper and quench it on water? i've seen that done in cooper forming and i can't seem to know if it behaves like steel for example .the faster the cooling the harder the material.. and the same goes to slow coolings and softer materials.. does cooper reacts like that?
sorry if this has already been asked a thousand times,, i just can't find a final answer :p
Franco Buzzetti Franco, Lots of people quench their copper in water. I prefer to let it air cool. It's just a personal preference. I'm sure there is some slight difference. Basically, what you are asking is a metallurgical question. To find a definitive answer to you question I'd suggest checking out some forums on metallurgy. Your question borders on metal tempering. There are lots of sites that may help such as structural engineering and welding engineering.
George Goehl i will look it up, thank you for your guidance sir!
Short answer is that quenching it after getting it red hot will not make copper hard. It will anneal it. Iron/steel gets hard because of the carbon in its structure.
EXACTLY. The only way to harden copper is by cold working it, but not by cooling it faster (it needs tremendously high cooling rates to obtain any effect, not possible to do at home!).
I've never used propane for annealing. Before you start, flex it in your hands to see how stiff it is. After heating it with propane, let it cool and see if it is softer. If it is, then you have annealed it.
How often would you recommend annealing an ingot of copper that would be, say, 1/2" thick, that I am trying to reduce to a sheet? Is there any way to know when you're about to cause fractures and need to anneal?
I've never tried to forge 1/2" copper into a sheet. One rule of thumb that I use, is when the hammer blows are less effective.
+George Goehl Thank you for the quick reply, and for the advise. I melted some scrap copper and the ingots I made are 1" and 1/2". Still trying to work on the basics of forming copper, fractured a few pieces so far. Made a mallet today, we'll see if that and frequent annealing works just as well on thicker pieces.
What kinds of torches can you use to anneal copper and or brass. I do not have a regular jewelry torch but wanted to know if any of the micro butane torches would work.
For sheet copper and brass you should be able to anneal with a micro butane torch. The thicker the copper or brass, the more heat it takes to anneal. If I get time this week I'll do a video on using a small torch for annealing.
Video: Running out of time this week, will shoot for next week.
Kendra, I think this new video will help, if the copper is not too thick, you will be able to anneal with a small Butane torch. New CZcams video: czcams.com/video/AIz8EWktS-c/video.html
Mr, Goehl, thank you for your videos. I am new to this and they are very informative. I watched your video about annealing and it left me with a question. My ultimate goal is to have a hammered copper copper clip. I assume I should hammer it the way I want prior to bending it onto itself to form a money clip, correct? Secondly, after I anneal it and get it to the exact bend I want, is there a way to harden it without manipulating it anymore (so that it retains the shape of a money clip as it is used?
It looks as though as I should've watched some of your other videos before posting. I can see that hammering the copper will make it hardened again (I understand the annealing/hardening process), but I am afraid that if I hammer it once I get it bent to the shape I want, I will cause the money clip to not retain the bend I wanted. I guess perhaps I would have to slide something thin, but hard in between the folds before I hammer (?). Or is there a way to harden the copper other than "working" it?
Anneal and form. You may have to anneal several times if the copper gets too hard from hammering. Once you have the shape or form you want the copper should be sufficiently hard. If you want to make it harder, you can do some light taps which will harden the copper even more without damaging your form. BUT, basically, you have to experiment to get the exact results you want. Fortunately copper is very forgiving. If you don't get what you want you can start over.
I don't know if there is any way to harden the copper without working it.
Thank you for the reply! I didn't realize the thread was a couple of years old, but I appreciate your response!
Put it in a tumbler with steel shot. It will harden it and also give it a nice shine for a finished look.
someone told me that annealing copper,nickle quarters is harmful, is that true?
About copper, I've never heard that. People have been annealing copper for hundreds of years. When working with metal proper ventilation is highly suggested. Annealing Nickels and Quarters: I don't know about that. I've never annealed a nickel or quarter..
I noticed you heated the copper with a carburizing flame. Is that important? What happens if you use a neutral flame? Also, how does this work with propane? Thanks for a good video.
With Copper, the nature of the flame is NOT that important as it is with iron or Steel. The only thing that matters is reaching the temperature. Annealing copper can be done with a propane torch, but not all propane torches rise the copper temp enough. Those with a "pencil point flame" only allow to anneal small pieces of copper. Therefore, for annealing say 3/4" copper pipe, you'll need to use a "turbo type" torch together with MAPP gas (MAP-PRO now that original MAPP is no longer available).
I have a couple of questions: for decoration purposes, I'd like to bend a copper stripe around a tree and fixate it there.
1. How do i fixate it the best? Can I nail it into the wood?
2. Will i have to anneal it?
3. Can I prevent it from corroding somehow if it will be outside permanently?
Kind regards, and great video!
Damian, can't answer your question. Too many variables. What kind of tree? What is the size of the tree? What is the thickness of the copper? Putting a nail in a tree will kill some trees. I've never bent a piece of copper around a tree. I am sure there is someone on the internet that can help.
George Goehl Oh sorry :)
It's a debarked plum tree that has been drying for five years, so I don't have to worry about the nails killing it.
My idea was to just hammer it around the tree and then either glue it (found a glue that is suitable for glueing copper and wood outside) ot nail it if I find nails that look good.
The copper is 40x4 cm and 1mm thick.
If the copper is stiff then you will want to anneal so that it is easy to wrap. For outside work I use
VHT SP184 Clear Coat Wheel Paint . Do a Google search. VHT clear wheel paint will protect it from turning green. For a number of years.
is it the same for brass?
Yes. But brass is an alloy. While copper is 99% pure copper, brass is copper with added elements.. Best to test a small piece before going further.
Here is an article on brass: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass
Is it possible (even necessary?) to anneal sheet steel?
I'd suggest looking at Wikipedia under "annealing steel" .
If I knew what you wanted to do with sheet steel I could give you a better answer.
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