Compressor vs Turbine Spray Guns for Woodworking Finish Application Which Provides the Best Results?
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- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
- Comparing Fuji compressor based HVLP spray guns to turbine systems with a detailed look at the features of each for woodworking spray finish application. Models compared include the LX-20 HVLP spray gun, the T70 bottom feed pressurized spray gun, and the T75G gravity feed pressurized model. Follow along as Willie Sandry the Thoughtful Woodworker takes you on a guided tour of compressor spray guns vs. their turbine powered counterparts.
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Pressure pots were briefly mentioned in the video, and I wanted to clarify that a 4 or 5 stage turbine unit is required to use a 2qt. pressure pot.
Also, while a 2-1/2 gallon pressure pot can be used with a turbine system, it would require a small air compressor. Fuji generously provided some of the equipment for this review, however opinions on products are my own. The Thoughtful Woodworker appreciates your patronage and viewers make this free content possible.
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#woodworking - Jak na to + styl
I ended up going for the compressor set up.
The main reason being is I already have an 18 ga nailer, 18 ga stapler, 16 ga nailer, 23 ga nailer
And the cost of battery versions of those are $200-300 each
So I bought an ultra quiet 26g air compressor from HF and HVLP with 4 tips for the same price as a Fuji Semi-Pro
So far I've been pretty happy with it. the compressor fits in the corner of my garage between the garage rail and the wall.
I thought the 5min to get up to pressure would be annoying, but the time it takes me to grab the gun and strain the material for the gun is about 5 min.
Sounds like you found a good solution. Thanks
I’m glad to put this out. Answered several questions I had.
Hi Rod, glad some info in the video was helpful. Thanks for the positive comment.
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Ive been researching spray equipment for days. This has been one of the most informative videos. Well done.
Hey thanks Dan! Good luck with your decision.
Two days in a row I found videos you did that pertain to my searches, and they were great! You have a nice, clear way of explaining these topics. Thanks and +1 Subscriber.
Wow, such a nice comment. Made my day. Thanks!
Thank you for posting. Very helpful.
I have the Q5 system. I love it. I use it on very expensive racecars that demand perfection. Primer/base/clear. The large tips work well for high build primers. A lot of the paint I spray can run $600/gal. Not wasting it on overspray is huge. I live in a humid climate. You didn't mention the cost of getting the shop air clean and dry. With the turbine I get clean dry air with no consumables. Thank you for your time.
Wow, $600 per gallon. I'll bet you're happy to not waste it to over spray!
@@TheThoughtfulWoodworker The low air pressure also helps not to blow crap out of nooks and crannies or the floor.
Excellent comparison. Thank you.
Thanks for checking out the video!
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Appreciate the great video, first one of yours I’ve seen, looking forward to exploring your channel.
Thanks for letting me know! Love the Seldom Rest name.
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Great video! Incredibly informative. Not sure many people would compare 'normal conversation' and 'a drill press' though, some people talk more loudly than others I guess ;)
Thanks great video with good information
Thanks Matthew!
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Thanks for
great video
My pleasure! Thanks for checking it out.
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Thank you!! Subscribed!
That's great, Welcome!
Great information, well presented, thanks.
Thanks for checking out the video!
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I just did my first spray job with my fugi turbine a 47 foot yaht 2 coats of primer and 3 coats of paint and it turned out perfect outside in 10 mph winds
Wow! That sounds like a big job! Glad it came out well.
@@TheThoughtfulWoodworker first time I ever sprayed anything but rattle cans the fugi is a great sprayer I bought it for spraying classic cars I restore but this yaht came along and the fugi saved me, if you've ever sprayed agree epoxy primer and paint you will understand.
Super helpful. Thank you!
You bet. Thanks for letting me know.
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As a viewer from the UK, can I just say I thought a 'turban system' was something a sikh gentleman wears to control his hair. 😉
Great video 👍
Yes, I have heard that some people find my pronunciation of turbine comical. I love a good UK accent though.
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Hi, i was searching for information and you nailed it, im getting alot of tub/ shower glazing jobs and love it, would also like to spray cabinets as well, its seems to me stage 3 would be awesome for what i need, thank you. I definitely have some questions if you can answer them , Patrick 😊
Hi Patrick, I'm happy to answer any questions I can. Thanks.
When I was doing my research on what route to go, I noticed the compressor side of the market had different guns that were specific to clear coats or primers, tho I'm not sure why. These guns were nearly $1000 each.
The automotive market has some products that don't apply to the woodworking market. One that is good for woodworking is the LX20. Fuji has it on their automotive page. As long as you can switch air cap sets, you should be able to spray just about any coating.
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Many thanks. Great info. Can we try a pancake compressor with the spray gun for a diy project
I've done it, but only for very small spraying projects.
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Thank you so much for an awesome video.
Could I please ask for some much needed help.
We are in Australia and unfortunately we don't have access to the Fuji system.
We did however find a similar brand the qtech 3 silver pro 2 sprayer system.
My daughter is starting her first business doing furniture upcycling and we really are struggling to decide in going with either compressor and gun or a hvlp turbine sprayer system.
What would you suggest for a beginner to intermediate user. What is best.
Thank you in advance for your assistance
Hi Rob, a compressor spray gun can do a pretty good job but generates a lot of over spray. If over spray is a concern, you might like a turbine system. The only thing I didn't like about my turbine is you can't disconnect the gun unless you turn off the machine. I solved that with a remote control to turn the turbine on. Good luck!
Pressure fed pneumatic hvlp conversion gun has the best transfer efficiency out of everything I’ve tried (airless, gravity fed lvlp and siphon fed hvlp turbine, still haven’t tried air assist airless) and can shoot high viscosity coatings. 1.3 needle seems to be the best all around for me for a fine finish for what I use even with thicker latex based coatings, pressure fed is the key. Also having a good filtration system for pneumatic is key as well since there is a lot of moisture and oil that can get pumped into the hose especially with a small capacity tank. There are ways to get a 2HP 4 gallon compressor to work with hvlp you just need to know what equipment to pair it with.
The biggest difference I noticed when switching from compressor driven to turbine systems is the overspray is greatly reduced. Thanks for your comments and insight. Best to you.
@@TheThoughtfulWoodworker depends on the air cap you’re using. I use a Max inlet 15 psi cap with a pressure fed cup. Mileage may vary with your skill to dial in the gun and material but I get the best transfer with that over everything else I’ve tried which has been many.
Hi, if finish quality is the only rquirement, what gives better finish, compressor or turbine? Cant find the answer to that anywhere.
I used to spray newly build fitted furniture in work with good compressor and devilbiss guns (spray booth setup with drying room) and used to get impecable results, factory finish.
Starting on my own now and interested in turbines cos of low overspray and portability. I know they give good quality finish on trim, doors etc, but what is the finish like on say kitchen and wardrobe doors and similar?
Any advice?
Thanks
Both can give a great finish, and both are miles ahead of a brush or wipe-on finish. Turbines win in my shop because of less over spray. You can work on large projects with components everywhere and still not get much over spray.
Thanks
Whats the strainer you used? Im having troubles only finding elastic mesh bag style, that lookes like a nice plastic funnel.
Yeah those plastic strainers are nice. I got a couple of those from Fuji with some accessories I bought. Usually I just use the paper cone strainers from Woodcraft. Best to you.
I’m an intermediate level finisher who’s trying to stick with waterborne finishes, but I still find them more challenging to spray than traditional lacquer or poly, especially on vertical surfaces. It’s a challenge for me to apply enough material to lay down flat without running. I’ve mostly used gravity feed compressed air HVLP, but recently acquired an unused, out of the box Turbinaire 1235 bought in 2003 (don’t make them anymore, but I think they’re compatible with Apollo?). I’ve only dabbled with it so far, but think I may make the switch as my primary spray set up. The “old” 3 stage Turbinaire and gun are bleeder style though, which I’m not used to and find annoying. I’m currently looking into setting up for non-bleeder (probably need a new gun, I’m thinking Apollo Atomizer if necessary). I’m looking for ANY knowledgeable insight into spraying waterborne/oil modified wood finishes and paints (products, techniques, tip sizes, equipment, etc). Thanks.
I know what you mean about bleeder guns being annoying. I spray mostly pre-cat lacquer because I like the way the second coat melts into the first. Very predictable to spray with. I encourage you to try new waterborne finishes, but test each new product on scraps to see how it sprays. Enjoy the turbine!
Thank you for the quick reply. Others have sworn by pre-cat lacquer as well. I’ll give it a try, instead of the oil modified poly products I’ve been using. Cheers!
I have a mini mite 3 I like it so far but wish I would have just paid the extra 100 for the q4
Yeah, the 4 stage systems are probably the sweet spot for price and performance. I usually run my Q5 turned half way up, so it may be overkill for the clear finishes I normally spray.
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Hi! I have been seeing complaints of the turbines making the air delivered too hot at the point of delivery causing the paints to dry too quickly and even in the cups. One common theme is that additives such as hardeners or thinners are sensitive to temperature. With such a low pressure delivery, do they need to be filtered for moisture?
Thanks for your video! Very informative!
Hi Stan, no moisture traps required with a turbine system. It's really compressed, high pressure air that's prone to have water buildup. I would say the air delivered by the Q5 is warm, but not hot by the time it gets to the gun.
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I have a Titan 115 cap spray which is a 6 stage turbine HVLP and have never experienced any heat issues
I wish I could get a turbine type air machine like the Fuji to run a 3m performer spray gun because the 3m gun is super easy and quick to clean because my projects range in colors and different kinds of clear coats.
The T75G is pretty easy to clean. Otherwise they have PPS cup system for the Fuji guns for super easy cleanup. Best of luck.
@@TheThoughtfulWoodworker Have you seen how easy to clean the 3M performance is? It’s not another level compared to all spray guns. Only problem is it needs a decent sized air compressor to run it.
@@Painfulwhale360 Nice! Quick and easy is always appreciated. Check out my "2 minute 2 oz" gun cleaning video to compare Fuji to the system you use. Thanks.
Hi, im getting in to spray paint wood working and like some mentioned before, i keep getting mix answer on the subject. I do have a big vertical compresor and I need an spray gun that will spray a nice coat without any imperfections. I'll be spraying water base enamel acrilic paint or Urethane. What are my best options?
The LX-20 would be a great choice if you already have a good compressor.
Great video! For a newbie trying to repaint the kitchen cabinets, is a compressor based system good enough? I like that I can use the compressor for multiple purposes. But, for the lack of my painting skill, should I go for the turbine system? I'm sure the turbine system is better, but would it matter to a newbie?
Thanks. I've refinished cabinets with both compressor driven guns and turbine systems. The big difference is over spray. You can get a nice finish with an LX-20 HVLP gun, which might be a good choice if you already have a compressor. If you think a turbine might be a better choice, consider the Semi-pro2 for occasional jobs, or the MiniMite3 for paint and the ability to handle thicker coatings. Keep an eye on my channel, I have a new video coming out on which HVLP gun to choose. Thanks.
@@TheThoughtfulWoodworker Thank you so much for the reply! I hope you will include Dewalt HVLP gun just because I was considering it. I know it only has one nozzle, but I thought it should be ok as the first spray gun. :)
Compressor guns don’t throw heavy paints well. I use airless for latex. But for lacquer or urethane they work fine.
I want a turbine setup with disposable cups next purchase.
@@f.kieranfinney457 Thanks for the reply. I have a Dewalt pancake compressor, so I was thinking of getting a Dewalt compressor spray gun to paint a latex based paint. Guess I need to think twice about it.
@@klaymoon1 you need a BIG tank to use air to paint. Compressor motors won’t keep up AND can’t run non-stop. Motors have duty cycles. X many minutes on requires X+ off. So run for 20, rest for 40 as an example. Cheap motors have shorter cycles. A big tank allows the motor to rest so you can basically spray non-stop. 40 gallons would be a minimum.
Latex requires big nozzles, which use tons of air. Spot jobs, sure. But spray a kitchen or even a big bookshelf, no fun. I’ve tried it. You have to use top of the top paint and thin it and do multiple coats for any hope of a smooth finish (it raises the grain so you’re best off priming with something oil-based anyhow - latex plus furniture is just not a good solution and isn’t very durable). Pre-cat lacquers are the way to go, especially on mdf and plywood.
Airless for painting exteriors and interior walls and trim. HVLP (either air or turbine) for stains, lacquers, varnish. FWIW you CAN spray latex with a turbine HVLP. I use a lot of air tools for other hobbies so have stuck with air for paint. If I sprayed a lot I’d buy a turbine. Hands down. YMMV.
What if I want it all? Such as, a sprayer that can do great with multiple types of paint, clear coats, finishes, stains etc. Conventional sprayer or HVLP?
I've been researching for some time and I keep running into mixed opinions on the subject. Many saying HVLP are not good for painting, many saying HVLPs are the best for everything besides large scale work, others saying you should own both. What's your advice?
Thanks and keep up the good work. You provide excellent information and good content!
Hey Jordan, I think a 4 or 5 stage turbine unit would do everything. Paint, lacquer, shellac and poly would all spray fine with the right air cap set. You can spray all those things with a compressor driven HVLP conversion gun too, but with a lot more over spray. This week I'm spraying cabinets inside my house, and I'm glad I have a turbine for less over spray. Best of luck with your decision!
I have an older Binks siphon fed gun.... Im interested in having the portability of a turbine, do I have to buy a different gun or do I just need an adapter for the turbine air hose?
100% you could fit two sets of needles/tips into one case and they would be 100% safe. I wonder why so much padding is included other than wasting a lot of valuable space!
At least the needle and nozzle sets are safe. I always appreciate a good case.
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@@TheThoughtfulWoodworker That was exactly my point, safe but taking up way too much space for your precious cargo space! If you appreciate a good case and don't care of space, just buy a large suitcase and line it with padding.
Would a turbine system be considered to be HVLP system? Also, would either the turbine bottom feed or gravity gun shoot latex? Is there a distinct advantage between bottom or gravity feed? Thanks, Garry
All of the Fuji turbine systems are HVLP. Not all brands of compressor driven spray guns are HVLP though. Both bottom feed and gravity feed guns will spray latex and thick coatings. I recommend a stage 4 or higher turbine if you're using paint frequently.
A gravity feed gun is a little smaller and easier to clean. Both work great. Best to you.
@@TheThoughtfulWoodworkerThank you for your response! I’m a retired journeyman electrician (bored) and taking a crack at some cabinets and painting. Have a great New Year!
Ok cool, you might check out this cabinet painting video... czcams.com/video/YYxkdVJdA1c/video.html Thanks @@funnyharleyman
What size compressor should you use. How many gallons?
I use a 26 gallon upright compressor, and it never runs out of air. You could probably get by with a slightly smaller compressor for small jobs. Best.
Ditch all that stuff and go with an Apollo gun. Spray anything and everything. Use an air compressor like i do or use a dedicated turbine. Ypy can use a pressure cup, top.or bottom. You can ise a pressure pot also. I spray fairly often and couldn't imagine anything else at this point.
Pressure pots are for really large projects, and take too much time and thinner to clean. I'll stick with turbines and the occasional conversion gun for small projects.
@@TheThoughtfulWoodworker not sure if you missed the whole point. Also, when using a larger 2.5 gal pressure pot, put the one gallon can in it, dont pour it in. Work right out of the can. When done, 1. release all pressure, 2. open the pot and leave the lid on 3. Open the top of the gun or disconnect the gun from the hose. 4. Put thinner through the gun or hose to backwash into the gallon (enough to clean but not over dilute the can). 4. Pull the lid and clean the line/gun. If you do this right, it is very little work and no liner is necessary. More work then a top cup and less then a bottom cup. But this is great when shooting doors, trim, cabinets, etc. Its a must for tight areas like built ins and closets or spraying all day. Much less fatigue on the hands. My go to is a 2 quart pot though so a little bit more cleaning but it is easier then the 1 quart because i cant fit my hand in one to wipe it down. It is just faster to move around when doing trim and doors and i dont have a 25 ft hose right now for the 2.5 gallon.
@@nicholasmendoza6159 Even if you work from the can, it wastes a lot more thinner. Like I said, pressure pots for big jobs. I spray custom furniture one piece at a time, so gravity feed guns work best for me. I wouldn't use a 2qt pressure pot.
Kinda feels like you're coming on here saying your way is best. I'm saying there are lots of different options, and we should all choose what's best for our application.
I wish you the best.
@@TheThoughtfulWoodworker what i am saying is their is better options then fuji and "conventional" and much better options and guns just dont fit into that class. You claimed a ton more clean up and i showed you the way to do it with less cleanup. Each cup has its own purpose and most people dont have a clear understanding of the options and best use. I have top cups, pressure cups, and remote setups, and disposable cups. i also have air brushes for fine touch up. There are some things that are "the best way" such as having pressure vs gravity or siphon feed because you have more control. It doesn't matter if its a 1/2 oz top cup or 55 gallon drum. If you really want to avoid clean up and maximize the use of material, use 3m disposable cups and store the left over finish in them. Minimum clean up and just put a cap on the bag and toss it in the fridge and you can sit on it a long time. And yes i am claiming a converterable gun or "hybrid" is far superior because you can spray hvlp off of compressed air or turbine or get into conventional pressures with compressed air.
I have the Fuji Q5. I wish I had done Apollo.
What do you Recomend I don’t know whether to buy a turbine to spray or get a compressor with a hose
A compressor based gun makes sense if you want to spray occasionally and already own a compressor. A turbine system with true HVLP spray gun has a lot less over spray, and is better if you do much spraying. Best of luck to you.
@@TheThoughtfulWoodworker I have a 2.5 air compressor
@@duglasjohel A 2.5hp compressor with at least 20-25 gallon capacity is sufficient for small to medium jobs. Thanks
@@TheThoughtfulWoodworker ok I’d better buy a turbine because all my tools are cordless then
30 psi , what is the stage on hvlp turbine setting?
Turbine based HVLP guns actually run at much lower psi. Usually 5-9.5 psi. A 3 stage might have 6.5 psi while a 4 stage has 9 psi.
What material do you put on wood?
I like lacquer or shellac. Usually I use lacquer. Thanks.
will this gun spray a spatter texture like on computer sheet metal parts?
LOL, a spatter texture is what most woodworkers are trying to avoid. No I don't think this gun can do that. If you reduced your pressure and didn't thin the product, you might be able to produce orange peel texture, but that's about it.
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@@TheThoughtfulWoodworker Well, dare to be different they say :) Anyway, in the past, the base coat would be applied (using poly or waterbournes), let the first coat flash off, then as you say lower the pressure and increase the paint flow to control the tiny droplets coming out from the gun. Since the base coat was already air dried, the spatter would crosslink to the base but not flow outward creating the final texture. That is what I want to do with this, if that helps.
@@markanderson4821 that makes sense. All of the Fuji guns have adjustments for fluid and fan. I adjust air on my Q5 turbine unit. Not all turbines come with variable speed. I'd say the T75G with a Q5 would be a good choice, or an LX20 if you already have a compressor.
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@@TheThoughtfulWoodworker Thank you sir, that was the confirmation I was looking for prior to pulling the trigger on the Q5.
@@TheThoughtfulWoodworker what gun should be used with a pressure pot?
Can it be used for car painting?
The LX-20 is an automotive style gun. It runs off a compressor.
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I paint high end racecars with mine. I have at least 15 regular cup guns and never use them since I got my Fugi Q5. At $600 a gallon the lack of overspray is huge but for me the perfect clean dry air is the best. A tiny bit of moisture can trash a $10,000 paint job.
How would you compare this to a Graco 9.5?
My experience with Graco is limited to their airless sprayers. The Graco 9.5 hvlp looks like a very similar setup to the Fuji turbines. A little more expensive though. Best to you.
@@TheThoughtfulWoodworker thank you for the quick reply. Fuji should definitely pay you for this video..... You have done a great job explaining their options very clearly...... because of you I'm looking for them online. I am now subscribed
What is the needle for in the cap?
Hmm, needle in the cap. I'm not quite sure what you mean. The turbine based HVLP guns have a pressure tube attached to the cap. That provides continuous positive air pressure for spraying. It makes turbine guns less likely to lose suction or sputter. Thanks.
Or do you mean the fluid needle? That just controls how much fluid is delivered into the airstream.
Ever think make Pen air brush turbine. Challenger
What CFM is your air compressor?
I use a 26 gallon upright compressor with about 2hp and maybe 5cfm. The LX20 would spray with a smaller compressor for smaller projects. Best of luck to you.
@@TheThoughtfulWoodworker Thank you so much. That's not a big compressor. I think sandblasting will be my limiting factor then, not painting. I'm going to call the sandblasting company and ask them what their minimum is!
بكم السعر ومنين تتحصل عليه
Why are they called "conversion guns"?
Hi Stephen, they are called conversion guns because they convert high pressure from an air compressor to low pressure spraying. Whereas a turbine system produces low pressure from the start.
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OK
That gun cost more than a lot of turbine set ups.
The LX-20 gun? It's a little more than the cheapest guns, but well worth the price to me. I wouldn't bother with a cheap one or two stage turbine. A nice finish can make or break a piece of furniture, and we all work too hard to mess up the finish.
Please use whatever you know, like and trust in finishing equipment. I'm seeing great results with the LX-20 and T75G.
Thanks
Keep looking for a middle-eastern man to be supplying air through his head dress. Turbine rhymes with land mine. Like what I just stepped on.
Yeah I've been told I mispronounce the name of this tool.
Any air compressor NEEDS to be oil FREE anytime anybody's painting ANY automobiles NOT ANY paint likes oil or ANY monster such as ANY water
Your statement is true, oil and water in the line are bad for most any spray work. That's one reason the turbine stands out, because the warm low pressure air doesn't cause water to form. Best.
I hate turbines. I use aaa, airless with fflp tips, or gravity feed automotive guns.
Wow, never heard anybody say that. Usually people love turbines for the reduced overspray. I use turbine, gravity feed compressor guns, and airless depending on the job. Best to you.
@@TheThoughtfulWoodworker very slow, they blow hot air, and spray dots of paint until it fills in. No good for solvent based products
Hmm, sorry yours didn't work out. I've never had those problems spraying lacquer or shellac. Thanks for weighing in.
@TheThoughtfulWoodworker no problem. I've been in the finishing business 30 years
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Think hes a salesman,lol,GETS a free complete unit and GU for it!!!!!!!😂😂😂😂😂😂
not allowing ff on a 25 minute vid is idiotic
Not sure what you're referring to. I don't restrict fast forward features. You might soften your approach as well, life is too short to be huffy. All the best to you.
@@TheThoughtfulWoodworker lol sorry you're right. i was in a hurry to make a decision and was looking for fast info and it had no FF. when i tried to manually forward it made me watch the whole thing again. i was aggravated. my apologies
@@seanmichael5751 No worries, have a good one.
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