Like you say, if they were of any use, they'd be in every house. They'd also be made by all the board brands like Hager, Schneider, Lewden, MK etc. as a companion for CU upgrades. The fact they're not front and centre at every wholesaler is because they're nonsense.
Good vid Jamie. 👍👍. Trivia time...back in the #80s (cegb time for me) they measured the voltage quality at Redbridge 275 and shit loads of 2nd harmonics were being seen which was traced down to all the "new" TVs with switch mode psus which were coming out at the time. 🥸 Christ knows what it all looks like now. I'm running a pf in my gaff of about 0.55 (single phase domestic) measured on this fancy smartmeter
Well said, you answered all the points that I could think of too. From an electronics POV the SMPS don’t care about the small over voltage nor would it affect its efficiency. Motors maybe, but how many motors do we have in the house that run almost constantly to justify the VO ? As for heating, it will consume more power but for a shorter time so total energy is the same. Good video and rant. All the best mate.
Před 4 měsíci+2
Had this shite years ago when in generator engineering, a particular red coloured hire company sending their sales reps out telling customers that their kit costs less to hire as the voltage is tuned down to “save money” fkn nonsense and did make me chuckle
Well it would cause incandescent bulbs, LED's with simple droppers and universal/brushed motors to use less power, but they'd be dimmer/slower. Anyway on European harmonised power the standard has enough tolerance in it to take in all the previously used voltages anyway. The only time I can see where a voltage "optimiser"/dropper would be usable is for old valve stuff where the input voltage is important not to damage the heaters in the valves and as such one designed for 220V shouldn't necessarily be used on 240V as with a transformer based supply the extra 20V could bring the heater output of the transformer above what the valve heaters are designed for.
Because it takes 4200 joules of energy to heat up 1kg of water by one degree celcius. So one cup of water takes a certain amount of energy to heat it up from tap temperature to boiling. All the different power rating does is determine how quickly the energy is put into the water, it still takes the same total amount, and it is that total amount you are being charged for and which is coming from the power station. Try explaining to a customer? I think most electricians don't understand this.
Would VO make more of a difference in industrial applications where you are charged for apparent power? Although probably better just installing PF correction instead.
The oven, like most heating appliances will have a thermostat-at higher voltage it won't cook faster but the element will cycle off for longer to keep the temp the same. The efficiency difference on a switchmode supply over voltage will me negligible, they are usually designed for 90-260v with no more than a few % difference in efficiency over that range. LED lighting is designed to keep LED current constant so efficiency wont change with voltage.
One thing you should account for is the voltage drop at the end of the circuits. If anything they've made it even worse, and since that one is on a fixed negative ratio, the voltage dropping out of the legal limits would actually damage equipment. Amusing what bs they come up with these days.
Hi Jamie, I've already waffled on about this before somewhere on the WWW ( I can't remember where now) I was told that I was wrong !!! many thanks my young friend for proving me right, I think the term Snake Oil comes to mind. Regards from the old sod etc.
I finally got around to watching the youtube edit, a concerning point to note with these is that they are double enders and will boost the voltage on export. These are sold as add-ons to solar where the generation could take legally the voltage within the home above 252V, if they are installed for the inverter they mask the over-voltage and cock up the type tested overvoltage protection that limits it to about 262V. It's explicitly noted in G98 that they can't be used for solar inverters for this reason yet the ECA released a 'technical document' advising that they are wired up in the very way G98 prohibits and even provides multiple diagrams... And these muppets are allowed on JPEL64...
When you took the cover off the volatge optimisation unit, I went "F---- there's nothing in there" and laughed my head off. I am guessing the yellow wires are an overheat thermostat (TK?) which switches out a small antiphase (which shaves off the 18V by opposing some of the flux from the main coil) when the torroid gets too warm (shares one end of the main coil). Can't believe the 60A goes through the tiny wires of the torroid. The circle image next to the house image on the side is the international symbol for an autotransformer. If you want to save money, link the two line wires at the meter, but put a filament lamp in series in case you put them up the wrong holes (no don't really).
The UK never changed anything to harmonise with the EU because the voltage was already within the +10 -6 range this is now causing issues with car charge points because the voltage runs upto 250v at night and trips them out when people want to use them most most subs I go to kick out about 245 -248v per phase
Not quite correct. The UK didn't change anything on the network, but they changed the specification. They changed the nominal voltage and tolerances. That is how they achieved harmonisation with the EU.
I’ve been doing some unrelated work at a hotel that has just fitted VO, and the maintenance guys reckon it would save £30k per year and pay for itself in less than 2years. I’m very sceptical, and suspect this was just the salesman’s quote.
i agree - i cant see the point of them. oh and even plumbers know that tin foil hats don’t work unless grounded with 16mm cable - call yourself a spark…
VO domestically is probably pointless. It can be beneficial in industrial situations, but a power quality check must be performed prior to applying VO. As you’ve said simple things like changing to LED lighting from filament lamps could be more worthwhile. I don’t agree with heating being 100% efficient, there are losses involved in all energy conversion. Heating may be very efficient but not 100%.
@@jamieblatantsparky just if you ever in front of one of them at work. Does not have to be perfect. I follow yourself and mainly electric a lot as it’s real electric content. Your man mainly is really good. You should try get him on your pod. That’s excellent also. Have two Shelly’s now installed with customers, cracked the connection. Great bit of kit.
This is why I almost did not put it out , it’s more in the factual opinion area of my videos not the most fun video I have ever made but keep seeing people pushing this crap
Like you say, if they were of any use, they'd be in every house. They'd also be made by all the board brands like Hager, Schneider, Lewden, MK etc. as a companion for CU upgrades. The fact they're not front and centre at every wholesaler is because they're nonsense.
Bang right Dave.
Good vid Jamie. 👍👍. Trivia time...back in the #80s (cegb time for me) they measured the voltage quality at Redbridge 275 and shit loads of 2nd harmonics were being seen which was traced down to all the "new" TVs with switch mode psus which were coming out at the time. 🥸 Christ knows what it all looks like now. I'm running a pf in my gaff of about 0.55 (single phase domestic) measured on this fancy smartmeter
Thanks dad
Big Clive is a boss! Love his Electrical content!
Well said, you answered all the points that I could think of too. From an electronics POV the SMPS don’t care about the small over voltage nor would it affect its efficiency. Motors maybe, but how many motors do we have in the house that run almost constantly to justify the VO ? As for heating, it will consume more power but for a shorter time so total energy is the same. Good video and rant. All the best mate.
Had this shite years ago when in generator engineering, a particular red coloured hire company sending their sales reps out telling customers that their kit costs less to hire as the voltage is tuned down to “save money” fkn nonsense and did make me chuckle
Well it would cause incandescent bulbs, LED's with simple droppers and universal/brushed motors to use less power, but they'd be dimmer/slower.
Anyway on European harmonised power the standard has enough tolerance in it to take in all the previously used voltages anyway.
The only time I can see where a voltage "optimiser"/dropper would be usable is for old valve stuff where the input voltage is important not to damage the heaters in the valves and as such one designed for 220V shouldn't necessarily be used on 240V as with a transformer based supply the extra 20V could bring the heater output of the transformer above what the valve heaters are designed for.
Reminded me of those 750w "Eco" kettles that did the rounds a few years ago. Try explaing to a customer why it's not "eco" 🤦♂
Because it takes 4200 joules of energy to heat up 1kg of water by one degree celcius.
So one cup of water takes a certain amount of energy to heat it up from tap temperature to boiling.
All the different power rating does is determine how quickly the energy is put into the water, it still takes the same total amount, and it is that total amount you are being charged for and which is coming from the power station.
Try explaining to a customer? I think most electricians don't understand this.
For domestic purposes I would install a hybrid solar inverter, which can also output a constant voltage.
and you can add solar panels and batteries.
Would VO make more of a difference in industrial applications where you are charged for apparent power? Although probably better just installing PF correction instead.
The oven, like most heating appliances will have a thermostat-at higher voltage it won't cook faster but the element will cycle off for longer to keep the temp the same.
The efficiency difference on a switchmode supply over voltage will me negligible, they are usually designed for 90-260v with no more than a few % difference in efficiency over that range.
LED lighting is designed to keep LED current constant so efficiency wont change with voltage.
Very happy whr a pro checks my work and I find out I was mostly correct , cheers Mike
You can get the same effect with tap changing the HV TX
One thing you should account for is the voltage drop at the end of the circuits. If anything they've made it even worse, and since that one is on a fixed negative ratio, the voltage dropping out of the legal limits would actually damage equipment. Amusing what bs they come up with these days.
Hi Jamie, I've already waffled on about this before somewhere on the WWW ( I can't remember where now) I was told that I was wrong !!! many thanks my young friend for proving me right, I think the term Snake Oil comes to mind. Regards from the old sod etc.
In a domestic application all they do is seem to produce heat which basically defeats the object
Our voktage is around 238-242 volts it only dips diwn to 230 at peak times actually 232 measured using a fluke meter
Good video 😅 snake oil salesmen won’t like it
I finally got around to watching the youtube edit, a concerning point to note with these is that they are double enders and will boost the voltage on export. These are sold as add-ons to solar where the generation could take legally the voltage within the home above 252V, if they are installed for the inverter they mask the over-voltage and cock up the type tested overvoltage protection that limits it to about 262V. It's explicitly noted in G98 that they can't be used for solar inverters for this reason yet the ECA released a 'technical document' advising that they are wired up in the very way G98 prohibits and even provides multiple diagrams... And these muppets are allowed on JPEL64...
Do you have a link to that ECA document or video I’ll have to get the g98 documents
When you took the cover off the volatge optimisation unit, I went "F---- there's nothing in there" and laughed my head off. I am guessing the yellow wires are an overheat thermostat (TK?) which switches out a small antiphase (which shaves off the 18V by opposing some of the flux from the main coil) when the torroid gets too warm (shares one end of the main coil). Can't believe the 60A goes through the tiny wires of the torroid. The circle image next to the house image on the side is the international symbol for an autotransformer. If you want to save money, link the two line wires at the meter, but put a filament lamp in series in case you put them up the wrong holes (no don't really).
The UK never changed anything to harmonise with the EU because the voltage was already within the +10 -6 range this is now causing issues with car charge points because the voltage runs upto 250v at night and trips them out when people want to use them most most subs I go to kick out about 245 -248v per phase
I’ve just been having this on a ev charger you may have seen it on my instagram, constantly kicking in the Pen protector as the voltage is too high
Wouldn't a optimiser before a EV charge point help out with this? Its a growing issue
Not quite correct.
The UK didn't change anything on the network, but they changed the specification. They changed the nominal voltage and tolerances.
That is how they achieved harmonisation with the EU.
I’ve been doing some unrelated work at a hotel that has just fitted VO, and the maintenance guys reckon it would save £30k per year and pay for itself in less than 2years. I’m very sceptical, and suspect this was just the salesman’s quote.
i agree - i cant see the point of them.
oh and even plumbers know that tin foil hats don’t work unless grounded with 16mm cable - call yourself a spark…
Good to rip out and scrap the devices though
VO domestically is probably pointless. It can be beneficial in industrial situations, but a power quality check must be performed prior to applying VO. As you’ve said simple things like changing to LED lighting from filament lamps could be more worthwhile.
I don’t agree with heating being 100% efficient, there are losses involved in all energy conversion. Heating may be very efficient but not 100%.
It’s litrally 100% efficient all the electric is turned to heat il
Horses for courses it suits some industries
If it's after the meter it doesn't matter a bollox
This us what i’ve always thought
Switch mode psu's won't consume more or less power
EG TV's
Jamie, can you do one on power factor correction 😅
You know what , probably but I’ll need to get my hands on a Power factor correction unit to show and it will be extremely boring
@@jamieblatantsparky just if you ever in front of one of them at work. Does not have to be perfect. I follow yourself and mainly electric a lot as it’s real electric content. Your man mainly is really good. You should try get him on your pod. That’s excellent also. Have two Shelly’s now installed with customers, cracked the connection. Great bit of kit.
what is idle power consumption from that voltage optimisation device?
Your gonna make me get the power analysis kit on it aren’t you
40mins of facetime with you. Reckon this is a disguise to look at your own grid for hours.
This is why I almost did not put it out , it’s more in the factual opinion area of my videos not the most fun video I have ever made but keep seeing people pushing this crap
It's good mate. Keep at it.
Just maybe a crimestoppers filter next time. And robot voice
Lots of tek is s scam
Could not agree more
Please just do the subject w/o the side trips.
Putting a 10 minute video into 40 minutes is a drag.
Please go watch someone else’s video with out the moaning