@@adamfrey4920 Many atheists would argue (quite rightly) that the thing in the Bible (especially the Old Testament) is a monster, not something be worshipped. And given the Spectre's actions taken in its name and with its tacit approval, they'd be correct.
I love how someone REALLY wanted to revisit the story of a not very prominent character, to was screwed over by a villain who isn't even associated with the hero anymore. That's dedication.
I would love to have seen a story where Dolores’ daughter became a hero in her own right, but instead of stealing a body, she got a robot body of her own, denouncing her mother and Ultra-Humanite’s body-stealing legacy.
So she would be a spirit possessing a mechanical body? That would be really interesting particularly if one leans into the otherworldly nature of her vessel being just as much spiritual as it is mechanical. A vessel made with interdimensional construction, you don't see that too often.
Brain swapping is pretty gruesome. Kind of reminds me of Dr. Cyber, a Wonder Woman villain who kept trying to steal Diana's FACE. That's kind of creepy when you're a little kid at the time.
I remember how creepy Dr. Poison was in the 90s, when she was drawn with a permenant rictus grin like a female Joker, only laser focused on toxins of course (not deadly pranks).
Endless Winter reminds me of the Victim Syndicate, normal civilians who got so screwed over by villains they became villains. The problem is she's so evil here that she doesn't come off as tragic or damaged. Hell, she's proud of killing her daughter. Where do you go from that?
@@phantom_blade555 They're Batman villains who came out at the start of ReBirth. Each were regular people who were utterly ruined by Gotham's villains. Great story.
Its interesting how the Ultra-Humanite predated the brain- swap sub-genre of the 1940s. In 1940, there was "Black Friday" with Boris Karloff and Bela Lugosi, about a gangster's brain being transplanted into a meek bookworm. In 1941, "The Monster & the Girl" featured a murder victim having his brain transferred into a Gorilla to take revenge. In 1942 was "the Ghost of Frankenstein" where Igor ( Bela Lugosi) has his brain transferred into the Frankenstein Monster, (Lon Chaney.) "Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein" in 1948 was about Dracula (Lugosi) wanting to transplant Lou's brain into the Monster. Ultra Humanite was there first. Good on him.
Goes much farther back than the 1940s. Frankenstein (1818) kind of loosely inspired the idea in the first place, and there's a number of bad and mostly-forgotten Victorian scifi stories that include brain swaps, with the idea recurring on and off ever since. Lot of it in the pulp mags of the 1920s and '30s, which is part of why you got all those films a bit later on.
I would of liked to have had Delores to encounter the Ultra-Humanite. To either get revenge on him for not only stealing her body, but also discarding it for a gorilla body, maybe involve a Superhero like Green Arrow or someone to stop both. Or we can go for a twistier choice and have her team up with Ultra instead, saying that she being with him makes her feel more complete, because he was in her body, he would know what made her tick, or at least that's what she'll think.
When did they officially stop doing the "Batman is an urban legend" thing? Not only because it feels goofy for people to not believe the JLA member with no actual powers is real, but Batman has sidekicks? Archenemies? Just every day Gotham citizens have to feel gaslit as Hell.
The ice villain default thing got me thinking of Ultra leveraging his body-swapping techniques over Mr. Freeze, both for himself and Nora. That had me wondering what kind of deals Ultra could make with other villains that dislike their bodies, particularly those metas who are deformed as part of their origin. Easy to imagine Ultra giving them the attractive normal body of their choice in exchange for their super-powered body.
I feel like All For One is similar only his power deals with taking quirks who were being discriminated by non-quirk user and giving quirks to those who were feeling powerless against those with criminal with powers. I mean that how he rose to prominence in MY HERO ACADEMIA.
Her tracking down her abandoned baby as an adult and taking her body was so unexpectedly dark. I kinda loved it and would be interested to see her make a return
To quote someone else, "That's a hell of a mystery no one thought was a mystery and didn't even really need solving, but damn if it didn't just get solved so nice work." Oh hey, it's Argus. I know him from when I read through the Mark Waid Flash run. I like his design, it's 90s as hell but not in a bad way, and most importantly, it's very purple.
I, too, found Dr. Midnight’s assessment of Dolores/Delores Winters’ career at 06:20- “a merely moderately famous Hollywood starlet”- rather harsh. In the “Stargirl” (TV show) version of her backstory, Delores even won an Oscar! (Though the implication that Ms. Winters needed a literal brain transplant to give an award-worthy performance doesn’t say much for her acting skills, pre-body swap.)
The question of what happened to Delores' brain isn't one I had but it's nice to have an answer. With that said if there's anything that'll make me squirm it's skin stealing and skinsuits. It just doesn't sit right with me but I guess it's kinda interesting that a skin transplant can lead to powers, you'd think there would be some sort of ice generating organ. As for Delores' villainous turn I can totally see how what she went through would cause one to snap but stealing your own child's body is cold.
"...you'd think there would be some sort of ice generating organ." Your skin is an organ. Largest one in (or on) your body, and very complex. With ice powers it would have to interact with them somehow anyway or you'd be giving yourself frostbite from your own powers all the time. She says she can't control them as well as she'd like followed by freezing the tissues of her own arm solid enough to shatter the brittle flesh and bone. That suggests that while the skin might generate the effect, the original owner Ice Maiden had further biological adaptations that prevented subcutaneous freezing from happening - in other words, her powers were more than skin deep, unlike Endless Winter's pirated version.
It was mentioned that that Dolores still had both arms in Cry Justice, but remember, She dealt in the organ and limb trade, so whos to say that she didn't just get a new arm at sometime. To get back to the Ultra Humanite; I would love a review of the Elsworld story JSA The Golden Age.
I actually don't think she ever really lost that arm. I think she was acting when she said she couldn't control the powers, and that was just an ice statue arm. That's my headcanon anyway lol
The only thing superhero comic writers love more than resurrecting under preposterous circumstances characters they've brutally killed off is torturing/mutilating them. And the cherry on top for poor Icemaiden is that while someone's ripping their fellow metas apart, the JLA/JSA are like, "Meh, let third-generation Dr. Midnite look into it, he's a detective like Batman, right?"
I confess, it never occurred to me for a moment to think that the brain of Dolores (or Delores) Winter might have survived the hijacking of her body, but I find I do like the idea.
@@nicknevco215 Arguably worse, since the victims in *_Get Out_* were at least still trapped inside, and had some small hope of regaining their own bodies, while a victim of the Ultra-Humanite had none at all.
The psychology of the body swap is an interesting one, even if the story didn't do much with her. Another one that could have been touched upon before modern incarnations would be Giganta, who one version had Doris swap minds with a circus strong woman who had the growing powers apparently.
14:10 Much as I really hate to suggest anything about Cry For Justice wasn't phenomenally stupid, her having both arms doesn't seem like a stretch. She's already wearing someone else's skin at that point, has body-hopped and taken other organs as well. Getting a new forearm grafted on is just a matter of finding a good fit - which, knowing her, probably took several tries and resulted in a number of involuntary southpaws wandering around. You could probably explain away her not being permanently dead if you really wanted to bring her back. She was getting weird power interactions from Ice Maiden's skin already, maybe she also harvested parts from someone with serious regeneration abilities that could resurrect her after her apparent death, maybe in conjunction with some kind of reflexive cryogenic self-freeze preserving her vital organs until the rest of the damage was patched up.
I actually liked the idea of Endless Winter and her motives behind it all. Her possible hatred for Ultra would've been great to see. As to my seasonal hero/villain how about Summer Love? A hippie woman who uses her powers to create psychedelic hallucinations?
I think she has potential, maybe tweak the story so she’s trying to get revenge against the Ultra-Humanite and will do whatever it takes to get it, a sort of body hopping Andrea Beaumont, that could be interesting
TY for this Background story Sasha, voices great, lol, I think the transfer as depicted in All Star Squadron is “Cannon” to me, JSA Classified is just a “Elseworlds” story. Lol, BTW The Daily Star was cannon through COIE and the original destruction of E2.
You weren't far wrong. Endless Winter is a 1995 ski movie by Warren Miller. Warren Miller did a new ski movie every year for decades. Great athletes skiing in beautiful, sometimes crazy terrain.
That reminds me of a thing that never happened in a movie called Face/off by john woo. Where nobody woke up with Travolta's face, and the only person close to that was awake for the procedure, having woken with no face.
I remember being really pissed off with all the mutilations to other superheroes, especially Icemaiden since I enjoyed all of the Global Guardians characters a lot, going back to the days of the Superfriends comic when they were just the "international heroes" and had not yet formed into a group. These heroes were so significant that they (and Dr. Mist who went on to lead the Global Guardians, though he had been sort of an antagonist to the Superfriends in an unrelated story) were the ONLY things from the Superfriends comic that really became canon. Things like Sinestro reforming and becoming a good guy happened in the Superfriends comic but was never referenced in main continuity. I think the character of "Kitten" is one of the few other things that have escaped the Superfriends comic to have a life beyond the comic, if only as a character on the Teen Titans Go show.
Geoff Johns-era DC is oft-criticized for being so retro and so grimdark at the same time, but this shows that this approach does fit Golden Age revivalism, because yeah, Golden Age superhero comics got pretty messed up.
I remember reading this story simply because it acknowledged the existence of Ice Maiden. With that era of the Justice League, references like that are few and far between.
It seems like Endless Winter was a writers attempt at a deep cut stab at creating a new villain. During this time period, there were plenty of digs in Bro Comics Golden Age for new material. Starman was particularly well known for this.
Forgotten storyline: that time Alpha Flight's Sasquatch died, and Snowbird gave him her body. He could still become a Sasquatch, but he was otherwise now a woman. Oddly, nobody talks about this one anymore.
I think about that story a lot, especially now that I recently finished the Immortal Hulk trade paperbacks. Langkowski pulls the same stunt wth Samson's body and is a green Sasquatch. And it was interesting that when in Narya's body, who was a natural shapeshifter, that she (Wanda Langkowski) could only transform into the white Sasquatch.
@@TitularHeroine if I remember right, his original body was possessed by one of the great beasts snowbird was to kill. When Walter was reanimated in her body, his spirit inhabitant it as it was. Still his becoming a female had a lot of potential, but marvel didn't seem to care about alpha flight at that point. Plus snowbird could only turn into animals native to the canadan teratory. With Walter it could be because of his sasquatch persona. Being that was what he was used to being.
I quite like the idea of Dolores Winters here tho I don't particularly like the "ah i just decided to have an organ business, considering I'm already doing it" thing. It's pretty interesting to have a villain going after heroes bc they want their bodies in order to live forever/take revenge on the villain who did it to them in the first place. I really like when villains have beef with each other tho haha
I remember reading those first few scenes of that story. It made me flash my mind to Grant Morrison’s New Xmen. I did not read on, but after seeing this, maybe I should have given it a try.
I forgot which one, but there's a DC animated movie, or tv show, in which they showed a prison for Meta Humans, and they had a whole wing, a whole cell block, just for frost powered villains. A whole cell block! That's how many ice villains there are on DC, enough to fill their own cell block, plus the ones that were still at large. That's a lot indeed.
I always love seeing side characters come back, it makes the world feel more alive. Anyone hit by a stray bolt or kidnapped could become a new hero or villain in and of themselves.
Athena is a notable example. One of the least awful of Greek gods, although even she fell for that golden apple BS. Darn you, Eris, why do you have to be such a troublemaker? Oh right, literally your whole divine portfolio. Well, go ahead then. Okay, now you're overdoing it, lady.
@@nctpti2073 Heh. Might need scuba gear soon. Then again, they've been saying the Big Quake is overdue for most of my lifetime, and I imagine Poseidon would have something to say about dumping an entire state full of crap in his oceans anyway. Too much pollution already. Mixing my metaphors, let sleeping world serpents lie, right? It's likely going to be human politics that cause the real problems in 2024 anyway.
When the ultra humanite switched with Dolores, I always wondered what happened to her. Did he simply discard her or did they switch bodies? And if so, what machine be going through? Apparently
As I recall at one point Vandal Savage had to get new body parts because he would out live them. It was hinted he either got them off a black market or the person was kidnapped.
@@Hanmerhack I think so, yeah. Which should be basically every human on the planet if it isn't a matter of direct descent. He's Genghis Khan on steroids when it comes to being everyone's ancestor. In fact, I think he might canonically be Genghis Khan. Guy's had a lot of identities.
Forget ghosts and aliens: the DCU is full of cyborgs living without massive parts of their bodies. Cyborg, Cyborg Superman, Robotman 1, Robotman 2, Metallo, The Brain, the cyborgs that worked for the terrorist organization Cerberus...
A thought: Endless Winter shows up again post-Rebirth, gathering together various people who were screwed over by the Ultra-Humanite, or have other reasons to hate him - because really, it shouldn't be just the heroes who get that kind of treatment.
I wasn't aware they brought her back, but kinda fascinating--it might be interesting to play her up not just for the attraction angle but the powers angle, sort of like old Marvel's Power Broker, except more monstrous. She could show up empowering villains in the background for a while then lead to her clashing with Ultra-Humanite.
This is fascinating to me. I didn't even think about what happened to Dolores/Delores after watching the previous video, so I think it's pretty cool that someone at DC decided to revisit that so many years later.
3:00 I can donate my body parts after I die, I can even donate one of my kidneys while I still live...so why couldn't a supervillain steal them while I am still alive?
I love being subscribed to both this channel and Comic Pop, it's like the yin and yang of comic book critique on CZcams. You dive into the interesting themes and concepts an admittedly bad comic might still have and why they interest you, and then I go over and watch Sal, Ethan, Ben, and Tiffany rip it to shreds on Back Issues
The only thing I remember about "Cry for Justice" was the font made the C look like a G and the R look like an A. I can't be the only one who thought it was "Gay for Justice"
Thank you for this video. I only "met" Ultra thru the Justice Leage Animated show. I didn't know his history or why he was an ape. I really appreciate this and yesterday's video.
6:09 I assume that the writers and editors of JSA: Classified added the ape part for the Ultra-Humanite to show the readers that it is him and not a regular person.
Nice video! Love that you show love to obscure and not very popular characters! Now i hope you do a video of Icemaiden/Glaciar/Sigrid Nansen and then maybe of the Global Guardians ;)
Sasha, you sent me down an Icemaiden rabbit hole! JLI #12 was the only comic I owned of the Giffen-DeMatteis run back in the day, and I didn't realize that was also the first appearance of Fire & Ice. I always thought they were preexisting characters.
I'm pretty sure if I woke up in a different body, I'd be STOKED. Almost guaranteed they have less debt, a working set of lungs, and a knee that doesn't feel like you're being stabbed every step. I'd just sit back and laugh at their misfortune.
Another interesting "body swap"story was Malibu Comics' "Mantra". The story was a magical apprentice has swapped from one body to another over the last thousand years. Due to circumstances, there is only one swap left, and that needs to be into a body of incredible magical potential. And that body happens to be a woman's and not a man's. Which provided some interesting stories. As well as exploring what it's like for a manly man to inhabit the body and life of a woman with children. Perhaps you can take a look at that series.
Kinda seems closer to a kind of "Quantum Leap" than a typical "body/mind swap" situation. But yeah it could be an interesting premise to revisit if Marvel ever gives a damm about Ultraverse characters...not bloody likely though.
I have those issues, I read those issues, And yet I somehow missed completely that was Dolores Winters. Thinking about her and Ultra-Humanite interacting, I think it'd be more interesting to see Endless being even more dissociated with whom she was and actually helping him. Possibly even being the one moving his mind from one body to another. For he has the best equipment for her medical performances. As for ice powers being a more villain power. Likely because villains are supposed to be cold to other's emotions and ice powers are just an easy way to express that.
I feel like a there’s potential for a team up between Endless Winter and Mr Freeze but I’m not sure what they’d do, just feels like something that could be a thing. Maybe she could offer to help him cure his wife but then it’ll turn out she intended to steal her body once it was cured.
What would your season themed villain name be?
I'll be spring ....allergies a bitch 😂😂😂
I can’t decide maybe Winter?
What season do you think I am?
Calling Captain Hayfever!
I'll be the Taxman. Because everybody hates tax season!
Autumn Winds 💅🏽
The fact that Dr. Midnight doesn't believe in organ swapping even though we've seen villains body swapping in comics is hilarious.
Its like Mr Terrific being an Atheist while on a team with The Specter.
@@FernandoGonzalez-hu3id exactly.
@@FernandoGonzalez-hu3id The Spectre literally was involved in specific events in the Bible. Mr. Terrific: "Meh."
@@adamfrey4920 Many atheists would argue (quite rightly) that the thing in the Bible (especially the Old Testament) is a monster, not something be worshipped. And given the Spectre's actions taken in its name and with its tacit approval, they'd be correct.
@@adamfrey4920 Mr
Terific: I met god, I was not impressed.
I love how someone REALLY wanted to revisit the story of a not very prominent character, to was screwed over by a villain who isn't even associated with the hero anymore. That's dedication.
I would love to have seen a story where Dolores’ daughter became a hero in her own right, but instead of stealing a body, she got a robot body of her own, denouncing her mother and Ultra-Humanite’s body-stealing legacy.
And then teams up wtih Robotman (of the Doom Patrol)?
@@rmsgrey or Red Tornado/Lois Lane?
I think that'd be pretty cool, a nice breaking of the cycle.
So she would be a spirit possessing a mechanical body? That would be really interesting particularly if one leans into the otherworldly nature of her vessel being just as much spiritual as it is mechanical. A vessel made with interdimensional construction, you don't see that too often.
or a Cloned body, only the procedure didn't work out properly and unlocked latent Meta Abilities
I absolutely love how there was a whole winter event called Endless Winter, and Delores was nowhere to be seen.
I forgot about that event faster than they forgot about Delores lol
@@CasuallyComics Spring came really fast that year. I'm pretty sure I saw the groundhog at a New Year's Eve party in 2020. :)
@@richmcgee434 you were at a new Year's Eve party in 2020?
I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembers that Endless Winter. Turns out, it wasn't that endless after all.
@@gunfighter009 It was just me and the groundhog, and he was a crasher. Wouldn't have let him in but he had his mask on.
Brain swapping is pretty gruesome. Kind of reminds me of Dr. Cyber, a Wonder Woman villain who kept trying to steal Diana's FACE. That's kind of creepy when you're a little kid at the time.
I remember how creepy Dr. Poison was in the 90s, when she was drawn with a permenant rictus grin like a female Joker, only laser focused on toxins of course (not deadly pranks).
To wear it?
Endless Winter reminds me of the Victim Syndicate, normal civilians who got so screwed over by villains they became villains. The problem is she's so evil here that she doesn't come off as tragic or damaged. Hell, she's proud of killing her daughter. Where do you go from that?
Wait, wait wait hold on this victim syndicate was a thing? Please tell me more.
@@phantom_blade555 They're Batman villains who came out at the start of ReBirth. Each were regular people who were utterly ruined by Gotham's villains. Great story.
@@wdcain1 now I have to go look this up
Yeah seems like someone Wonder Woman would knock down and have sent to that "rehab island", but I don't think that's cannon anymore.
Its interesting how the Ultra-Humanite predated the brain- swap sub-genre of the 1940s.
In 1940, there was "Black Friday" with Boris Karloff and Bela Lugosi, about a gangster's brain being transplanted into a meek bookworm. In 1941, "The Monster & the Girl" featured a murder victim having his brain transferred into a Gorilla to take revenge. In 1942 was "the Ghost of Frankenstein" where Igor ( Bela Lugosi) has his brain transferred into the Frankenstein Monster, (Lon Chaney.) "Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein" in 1948 was about Dracula (Lugosi) wanting to transplant Lou's brain into the Monster.
Ultra Humanite was there first. Good on him.
Goes much farther back than the 1940s. Frankenstein (1818) kind of loosely inspired the idea in the first place, and there's a number of bad and mostly-forgotten Victorian scifi stories that include brain swaps, with the idea recurring on and off ever since. Lot of it in the pulp mags of the 1920s and '30s, which is part of why you got all those films a bit later on.
@4:23 Doctor Midnite: "Urban myth!"
Inigo: "You keep using those words. I don't they mean what you think they mean." 😉
I would of liked to have had Delores to encounter the Ultra-Humanite. To either get revenge on him for not only stealing her body, but also discarding it for a gorilla body, maybe involve a Superhero like Green Arrow or someone to stop both. Or we can go for a twistier choice and have her team up with Ultra instead, saying that she being with him makes her feel more complete, because he was in her body, he would know what made her tick, or at least that's what she'll think.
When did they officially stop doing the "Batman is an urban legend" thing? Not only because it feels goofy for people to not believe the JLA member with no actual powers is real, but Batman has sidekicks? Archenemies? Just every day Gotham citizens have to feel gaslit as Hell.
seeing both doris/ultrahumanite in stargirl was amazing
That show delivered on the obscure characters.
@@CasuallyComics at it did and still sad at it is over
I really wanted Infinity Inc lol oh well it lives on in my dreams.
Thanks for the spoilers. I haven't seen season 3 of Stargirl yet.
@Casually Comics I wonder if there's an actress who could do the role of Power Girl without prosthetics?
The ice villain default thing got me thinking of Ultra leveraging his body-swapping techniques over Mr. Freeze, both for himself and Nora. That had me wondering what kind of deals Ultra could make with other villains that dislike their bodies, particularly those metas who are deformed as part of their origin. Easy to imagine Ultra giving them the attractive normal body of their choice in exchange for their super-powered body.
I would love that so much
That could be a sort of DC version of the Power Broker. And Ultra-Humanite could have the bodies in cryogenic preservation and swap them out freely.
I feel like All For One is similar only his power deals with taking quirks who were being discriminated by non-quirk user and giving quirks to those who were feeling powerless against those with criminal with powers. I mean that how he rose to prominence in MY HERO ACADEMIA.
It seems like that might be an easier way to raise the five million dollars he needed to take over the world. 😁
@@SuperEasywalker funny sin afo is all mights greatest enemy, who is essentially mha's superman, and ultra-humanite is superman's first arch enemy.
Doctor Midnight is just an urban myth
Urban myths are just an urban myth.
Her tracking down her abandoned baby as an adult and taking her body was so unexpectedly dark. I kinda loved it and would be interested to see her make a return
To quote someone else, "That's a hell of a mystery no one thought was a mystery and didn't even really need solving, but damn if it didn't just get solved so nice work."
Oh hey, it's Argus. I know him from when I read through the Mark Waid Flash run. I like his design, it's 90s as hell but not in a bad way, and most importantly, it's very purple.
I, too, found Dr. Midnight’s assessment of Dolores/Delores Winters’ career at 06:20- “a merely moderately famous Hollywood starlet”- rather harsh. In the “Stargirl” (TV show) version of her backstory, Delores even won an Oscar! (Though the implication that Ms. Winters needed a literal brain transplant to give an award-worthy performance doesn’t say much for her acting skills, pre-body swap.)
Glad Tora got her skin back in time for the new Human Target series.
That's not Ice, though. Icemaiden is a separate character. (And thanks! Nice! Another reason for me to check out the new Human Target!)
@@TitularHeroine true. I forget they were separate. The Human Target series is phenomenal. And I’m not a fan of 90’s Justice League.
Endless Winter sounds like an off boardway play.
The question of what happened to Delores' brain isn't one I had but it's nice to have an answer. With that said if there's anything that'll make me squirm it's skin stealing and skinsuits. It just doesn't sit right with me but I guess it's kinda interesting that a skin transplant can lead to powers, you'd think there would be some sort of ice generating organ. As for Delores' villainous turn I can totally see how what she went through would cause one to snap but stealing your own child's body is cold.
"...you'd think there would be some sort of ice generating organ."
Your skin is an organ. Largest one in (or on) your body, and very complex. With ice powers it would have to interact with them somehow anyway or you'd be giving yourself frostbite from your own powers all the time.
She says she can't control them as well as she'd like followed by freezing the tissues of her own arm solid enough to shatter the brittle flesh and bone. That suggests that while the skin might generate the effect, the original owner Ice Maiden had further biological adaptations that prevented subcutaneous freezing from happening - in other words, her powers were more than skin deep, unlike Endless Winter's pirated version.
@@richmcgee434 3:58 Yes, apparently her autonomic nervous system also has ice-powers, or controls some parts of her body that does.
Taking her daughter's body is extremely dark. I'm surprised she isn't more furious about ultra humanite stealing her body.
It was mentioned that that Dolores still had both arms in Cry Justice, but remember, She dealt in the organ and limb trade, so whos to say that she didn't just get a new arm at sometime.
To get back to the Ultra Humanite; I would love a review of the Elsworld story JSA The Golden Age.
I actually don't think she ever really lost that arm. I think she was acting when she said she couldn't control the powers, and that was just an ice statue arm. That's my headcanon anyway lol
The only thing superhero comic writers love more than resurrecting under preposterous circumstances characters they've brutally killed off is torturing/mutilating them. And the cherry on top for poor Icemaiden is that while someone's ripping their fellow metas apart, the JLA/JSA are like, "Meh, let third-generation Dr. Midnite look into it, he's a detective like Batman, right?"
I confess, it never occurred to me for a moment to think that the brain of Dolores (or Delores) Winter might have survived the hijacking of her body, but I find I do like the idea.
makes me think of get out movie
@@nicknevco215 Arguably worse, since the victims in *_Get Out_* were at least still trapped inside, and had some small hope of regaining their own bodies, while a victim of the Ultra-Humanite had none at all.
The psychology of the body swap is an interesting one, even if the story didn't do much with her.
Another one that could have been touched upon before modern incarnations would be Giganta, who one version had Doris swap minds with a circus strong woman who had the growing powers apparently.
14:10 Much as I really hate to suggest anything about Cry For Justice wasn't phenomenally stupid, her having both arms doesn't seem like a stretch. She's already wearing someone else's skin at that point, has body-hopped and taken other organs as well. Getting a new forearm grafted on is just a matter of finding a good fit - which, knowing her, probably took several tries and resulted in a number of involuntary southpaws wandering around.
You could probably explain away her not being permanently dead if you really wanted to bring her back. She was getting weird power interactions from Ice Maiden's skin already, maybe she also harvested parts from someone with serious regeneration abilities that could resurrect her after her apparent death, maybe in conjunction with some kind of reflexive cryogenic self-freeze preserving her vital organs until the rest of the damage was patched up.
That's *at least* as good a "comic book death reversal" as we usually get!
I actually liked the idea of Endless Winter and her motives behind it all. Her possible hatred for Ultra would've been great to see. As to my seasonal hero/villain how about Summer Love? A hippie woman who uses her powers to create psychedelic hallucinations?
cool
Owls are always cool but a complete urban myth.
So did Ice maiden ever get her skin back ? I mean it's comics, I would not be surprise if it grew back.
Ice Maiden was an urban myth.
Yes, they did, they’ve since come out as non-binary, and in fact they go by the name Glacier now, (still a superhero)
@@superkid3188 I though Ice Maiden was Ice's original name and she just shortened it?
@@ShadowWingTronix Tora is Ice, and Glacier is Sigrid.
I think she has potential, maybe tweak the story so she’s trying to get revenge against the Ultra-Humanite and will do whatever it takes to get it, a sort of body hopping Andrea Beaumont, that could be interesting
Either drop the daughter killing or have it be a willing thing, right now she just seems insane 😅
@@knightsblight Agreed
That Band-Aid on your thumb… did Delores Winter try to steal your thumb print? 😮
Owls are just an urban legend.
TY for this Background story Sasha, voices great, lol, I think the transfer as depicted in All Star Squadron is “Cannon” to me, JSA Classified is just a “Elseworlds” story. Lol, BTW The Daily Star was cannon through COIE and the original destruction of E2.
You weren't far wrong. Endless Winter is a 1995 ski movie by Warren Miller. Warren Miller did a new ski movie every year for decades. Great athletes skiing in beautiful, sometimes crazy terrain.
I woke up and had John Travolta’s face.
That reminds me of a thing that never happened in a movie called Face/off by john woo. Where nobody woke up with Travolta's face, and the only person close to that was awake for the procedure, having woken with no face.
I remember being really pissed off with all the mutilations to other superheroes, especially Icemaiden since I enjoyed all of the Global Guardians characters a lot, going back to the days of the Superfriends comic when they were just the "international heroes" and had not yet formed into a group. These heroes were so significant that they (and Dr. Mist who went on to lead the Global Guardians, though he had been sort of an antagonist to the Superfriends in an unrelated story) were the ONLY things from the Superfriends comic that really became canon. Things like Sinestro reforming and becoming a good guy happened in the Superfriends comic but was never referenced in main continuity. I think the character of "Kitten" is one of the few other things that have escaped the Superfriends comic to have a life beyond the comic, if only as a character on the Teen Titans Go show.
I absolutely hate it when DC brings back forgotten characters only to brutalize them in some way. Just feels so unnecessarily nasty.
She lost her body and then lost her mind dun dun dun
Geoff Johns-era DC is oft-criticized for being so retro and so grimdark at the same time, but this shows that this approach does fit Golden Age revivalism, because yeah, Golden Age superhero comics got pretty messed up.
I remember reading this story simply because it acknowledged the existence of Ice Maiden. With that era of the Justice League, references like that are few and far between.
Tipping your waiter? Urban legend Batman!? Urban legend I say ‼️‼️
Potential idea for a video - ranking of DC ice villains, or maybe on a similar note black heroes and electricity powers
It seems like Endless Winter was a writers attempt at a deep cut stab at creating a new villain.
During this time period, there were plenty of digs in Bro Comics Golden Age for new material. Starman was particularly well known for this.
Like Black Pirate.
Forgotten storyline: that time Alpha Flight's Sasquatch died, and Snowbird gave him her body.
He could still become a Sasquatch, but he was otherwise now a woman.
Oddly, nobody talks about this one anymore.
That was weird, but they never really went anywhere with that.
I think about that story a lot, especially now that I recently finished the Immortal Hulk trade paperbacks. Langkowski pulls the same stunt wth Samson's body and is a green Sasquatch.
And it was interesting that when in Narya's body, who was a natural shapeshifter, that she (Wanda Langkowski) could only transform into the white Sasquatch.
@@TitularHeroine if I remember right, his original body was possessed by one of the great beasts snowbird was to kill. When Walter was reanimated in her body, his spirit inhabitant it as it was. Still his becoming a female had a lot of potential, but marvel didn't seem to care about alpha flight at that point.
Plus snowbird could only turn into animals native to the canadan teratory. With Walter it could be because of his sasquatch persona. Being that was what he was used to being.
I believe I have that JSA:Classified series. Nice recap. I'm ok with the direction they went.
I quite like the idea of Dolores Winters here tho I don't particularly like the "ah i just decided to have an organ business, considering I'm already doing it" thing. It's pretty interesting to have a villain going after heroes bc they want their bodies in order to live forever/take revenge on the villain who did it to them in the first place. I really like when villains have beef with each other tho haha
I remember reading those first few scenes of that story. It made me flash my mind to Grant Morrison’s New Xmen. I did not read on, but after seeing this, maybe I should have given it a try.
They did this story in Stargirl season 3 and it was amazing!
I forgot which one, but there's a DC animated movie, or tv show, in which they showed a prison for Meta Humans, and they had a whole wing, a whole cell block, just for frost powered villains. A whole cell block! That's how many ice villains there are on DC, enough to fill their own cell block, plus the ones that were still at large. That's a lot indeed.
Tell me they kept the freezers for the prison kitchens in there too.
good bit
@@richmcgee434 it wasn't mentioned, not a bad idea, though.
I always love seeing side characters come back, it makes the world feel more alive. Anyone hit by a stray bolt or kidnapped could become a new hero or villain in and of themselves.
Owls were cool long before. Odin was associated with them and so were many other deities from classical and pre-classical mythology.
Athena is a notable example. One of the least awful of Greek gods, although even she fell for that golden apple BS. Darn you, Eris, why do you have to be such a troublemaker?
Oh right, literally your whole divine portfolio. Well, go ahead then.
Okay, now you're overdoing it, lady.
@@richmcgee434 Eris looks at you with those big brown eyes and says "You ain't seen nothing yet" 🎶
@@nctpti2073 I bet. 2024 is going to be a joy even if California doesn't fall into the sea. :)
@@richmcgee434 So you might not go back to Annandale? Are you ever going back to your old school? 🤣
@@nctpti2073 Heh. Might need scuba gear soon.
Then again, they've been saying the Big Quake is overdue for most of my lifetime, and I imagine Poseidon would have something to say about dumping an entire state full of crap in his oceans anyway. Too much pollution already.
Mixing my metaphors, let sleeping world serpents lie, right? It's likely going to be human politics that cause the real problems in 2024 anyway.
Fitting, it feels like an endless winter in Canada!
Owl sidekicks have always been cool. Just ask Athena.
Nice try, villains. My brain is an urban myth.
When the ultra humanite switched with Dolores, I always wondered what happened to her. Did he simply discard her or did they switch bodies? And if so, what machine be going through? Apparently
As I recall at one point Vandal Savage had to get new body parts because he would out live them. It was hinted he either got them off a black market or the person was kidnapped.
Didn't he get them from people who were descend from him?
@@Hanmerhack Now that you mention it, that sounds about right.
@@Hanmerhack I think so, yeah. Which should be basically every human on the planet if it isn't a matter of direct descent. He's Genghis Khan on steroids when it comes to being everyone's ancestor. In fact, I think he might canonically be Genghis Khan. Guy's had a lot of identities.
Forget ghosts and aliens: the DCU is full of cyborgs living without massive parts of their bodies. Cyborg, Cyborg Superman, Robotman 1, Robotman 2, Metallo, The Brain, the cyborgs that worked for the terrorist organization Cerberus...
A thought: Endless Winter shows up again post-Rebirth, gathering together various people who were screwed over by the Ultra-Humanite, or have other reasons to hate him - because really, it shouldn't be just the heroes who get that kind of treatment.
I wasn't aware they brought her back, but kinda fascinating--it might be interesting to play her up not just for the attraction angle but the powers angle, sort of like old Marvel's Power Broker, except more monstrous. She could show up empowering villains in the background for a while then lead to her clashing with Ultra-Humanite.
This is fascinating to me. I didn't even think about what happened to Dolores/Delores after watching the previous video, so I think it's pretty cool that someone at DC decided to revisit that so many years later.
3:00 I can donate my body parts after I die, I can even donate one of my kidneys while I still live...so why couldn't a supervillain steal them while I am still alive?
I love being subscribed to both this channel and Comic Pop, it's like the yin and yang of comic book critique on CZcams. You dive into the interesting themes and concepts an admittedly bad comic might still have and why they interest you, and then I go over and watch Sal, Ethan, Ben, and Tiffany rip it to shreds on Back Issues
Ice Maiden got flayed bad
Is there a good way to get flayed?
Well my goal would be I’ll try to get a new body and have new identity.
What can I say? If my life changes, why not my role.
14:31 “also the death of Lain Harper”
REEEE
What I really want to know is how you got the hair strands so perfect with the color pattern!
"The organs are in there. Let's go!" 😂
She looks like Eliza Dushku.
great villain - they could have her chase the Ultrahumanite decade after decade each taking on different bodies.
“This is the story of ___ and what happened to their brain” has been stuck in my head for the past few days so thanks for that 😂
I love this idea SO much and I want such better closure. What a waste of potential. Thank you so much for sharing this.
whoa your hair is pretty colorful.
I thought Psylocke and Kwannon had it bad. Holy hell. I dig the concept thou.
Love the hair!!
Gawdddttttt damn that wig is FABULOUS
I'd want that crossover - Winter & Ultra
Oh my, i didnt realize this was the same woman from Cry for Justice. Love the explanations!
Loved your synopsis of Dolores Winter’s storyline. Yes! A confrontation between Dolores and Ultra is overdue!
The only thing I remember about "Cry for Justice" was the font made the C look like a G and the R look like an A. I can't be the only one who thought it was "Gay for Justice"
Thank you for this video. I only "met" Ultra thru the Justice Leage Animated show. I didn't know his history or why he was an ape. I really appreciate this and yesterday's video.
Bruh really said Batman and organ swapping is a myth. Wild
I read this years ago but had forgotten it. I’m inspired to go read it again.
6:09 I assume that the writers and editors of JSA: Classified added the ape part for the Ultra-Humanite to show the readers that it is him and not a regular person.
as the comic said... very theatrical as a name... but awesome also instead of going for the usual snow/ice tropes that ice characters have as names...
So the Global Guardians all got murdered/mutilated for this story? Did DC hate that team that much?
Nice video! Love that you show love to obscure and not very popular characters! Now i hope you do a video of Icemaiden/Glaciar/Sigrid Nansen and then maybe of the Global Guardians ;)
Holy shit holy shit…… I love your hair 🤩
Robinson's JSA Golden Age leaves a lot of unanswered questions.
Your hair is straight fire, people take notes this is rainbow hair done right.
Everything in Cry for Justice was sad...
Sasha, you sent me down an Icemaiden rabbit hole! JLI #12 was the only comic I owned of the Giffen-DeMatteis run back in the day, and I didn't realize that was also the first appearance of Fire & Ice. I always thought they were preexisting characters.
I'm pretty sure if I woke up in a different body, I'd be STOKED. Almost guaranteed they have less debt, a working set of lungs, and a knee that doesn't feel like you're being stabbed every step. I'd just sit back and laugh at their misfortune.
I love that wig. I need to learn how to wear them, they keep popping off.
Another interesting "body swap"story was Malibu Comics' "Mantra".
The story was a magical apprentice has swapped from one body to another over the last thousand years. Due to circumstances, there is only one swap left, and that needs to be into a body of incredible magical potential. And that body happens to be a woman's and not a man's. Which provided some interesting stories. As well as exploring what it's like for a manly man to inhabit the body and life of a woman with children.
Perhaps you can take a look at that series.
Kinda seems closer to a kind of "Quantum Leap" than a typical "body/mind swap" situation. But yeah it could be an interesting premise to revisit if Marvel ever gives a damm about Ultraverse characters...not bloody likely though.
I have those issues, I read those issues, And yet I somehow missed completely that was Dolores Winters. Thinking about her and Ultra-Humanite interacting, I think it'd be more interesting to see Endless being even more dissociated with whom she was and actually helping him. Possibly even being the one moving his mind from one body to another. For he has the best equipment for her medical performances.
As for ice powers being a more villain power. Likely because villains are supposed to be cold to other's emotions and ice powers are just an easy way to express that.
I feel like a there’s potential for a team up between Endless Winter and Mr Freeze but I’m not sure what they’d do, just feels like something that could be a thing. Maybe she could offer to help him cure his wife but then it’ll turn out she intended to steal her body once it was cured.
Your channel is great
The worst part is I can't call what happened to Ice Maiden or Endless Winter a fridging without it sounding like a pun.
That’s a wild story. Tragic. Love the psychosis of it:
This was very interesting. Thank you for posting.
I liked how they used Delores Winters and Ultra Humanite in the Stargirl tv series.
Man, I had completely forgot about this one. Haven't read it since it came out. Thanks for covering it ^_^