A36 Bonanza Engine Failure on Takeoff
Vložit
- čas přidán 3. 11. 2019
- FlyWire takes a look at Engine Failure on Takeoff in Part 3 of the Engine Failure series. We try out Vx and Cruise Climb speeds and set a TurnBack altitude. Check it out and see what happens when we simulate the engine failure!
FlyWire is about exploring flight and the freedom this incredible experience brings us on a personal level. Flying has always captured the imagination and excitement of living life to its fullest. Hi, I'm Scott Perdue. In a former life I flew the F-4 and F-15E, more recently I retired from a major airline. I've written for several aviation magazines over the years, was a consultant for RAND, the USAF, Navy, NASA as well as few others, wrote a military thriller- 'Pale Moon Rising' (still on Kindle). But mostly I like flying, or teaching flying. Some of the most fun I had was with Tom Gresham on a TV show called 'Wings to Adventure". We flew lots of different airplanes all over the country. Now with FlyWire I want to showcase the fun in flying, share the joy and freedom of flight and explore the world with you. Make sure you subscribe if you want to go along for the ride!
#Pilot #Fly #Flying #Fly yourself #aviation #Flying Training #Learn to Fly #adventure
Subscribe to keep up to date with new videos on CZcams:
/ scottperdue476
Follow me on Twitter: @FlyWireO
/ flywire.online
Follow me on Facebook:
/ flywireonline
Website: www.flywire.online
T-Shirts: www.flywire.online/merch
Exactly what I teach as a result of teaching hundreds of Bonanza pilots over four years in the simulator at Beech Field: it takes 1000 to 1200 AGL to realign with the runway, IF pilot knows when the failure will occur AND he/she has (unsuccessfully) practiced it once or twice immediately beforehand. Like you, I present the option of getting to the flat airport if not the runway itself, above about 700 AGL. And also, as you say, you have to PUSH. Another good video, Scott.
Where is your video showing it takes up to 1,200 feet agl to Turnback To Opposite?? Was that at full gross on a hot day or not??
“You’ve got to be aggressive. You’ve got to push NOW.” I have been very strongly influenced by this concept as demonstrated by you, by Flight Chops, and Aviation101 CZcamsrs. Giving up 3 seconds after an engine failure on takeoff is a potentially lethal mistake. I have changed my takeoff SOP to making the assumption that I WILL have an engine failure on every single takeoff, so I 1) accelerate to Vy ASAP; 2) watch my engine instruments and listen to my engine in order to be able to recognize a failure ASAP; and if I do that I have a chance to try to shave that 3 seconds down to 1.0-1.5 seconds. Your demonstration of a 45 degree bank being the best option is really interesting!
Excellent James, I'm glad you're thinking about these videos and how it might apply to you!
Scott, as a CFIG who taught low-altitude rope breaks as part of the private pilot syllabus, I once did the math to answer this question: What is the optimum bank angle for reversing course 180º with the minimum altitude loss? Answer: 42º of bank. That's a lot of bank for a private pilot close to the ground at min sink speed, but that's what the math says. Two things to note: 1) the much tighter *radius of turn* in a 42º bank leaves you much closer to the runway centerline than the more leisurely, 20º bank you used in the first couple of scenarios; 2) the minimum sink speed in a 42º bank is no longer Vx, but is slightly higher. The last scenario you flew came very close to that ideal: just about 45º of bank, with the stall warning horn warbling but not on solid. Final observation: if there's a crosswind on takeoff, it's much better to turn *into* the crosswind than downwind: the crosswind helps keep you closer to the centerline throughout the turn back to the runway.
Thanks Steve! Great comments!
You didn't mention it, but the prop control has a big influence on glide ratio. If you have prop control, pulling the prop rpm all the way back can make a big difference. It might make an interesting video to explore. thanks
I did a series on engine failures inflight and I did look at pulling the prop back, the hit was 50% if you don't. But what I was trying to do here was look at a situation I think is far more likely... either you don't have the oil pressure to change the prop itch, or the brain bytes to pull the prop back. In the worst case how does this "turnback' maneuver really work for someone unprepared. The result was very interesting. I did another Turnback/Impossible turn video solo from the ground-- watch that.
Nose down to Vglide position, Keep 45 degrees nose down and dont pull for under Vglide. Push if speed going to under Vglide. Why?? Because At low altitude you tend to pull
more than you wanted, specially in a real engine out.
Dont stall it by trying to Steep turn under Vglide speed, those guys that say that have no experience at all teaching Turnbacks To Opposite Runway (EFATO Question Mark Turns).
Pretty close, this kind of turn is a descending turn, you trade your altitude for energy and turning room!
A couple comments, if I may.... It's been a long time since I've flown small aircraft, but I used to fly A36s rather frequently in the early to mid-eighties. That said, I'm going on memory, so bear with me. First, is the horn I'm hearing in these exercises the gear unsafe horn, or stall warning? I suspect the former, not the latter. Second, there was no commentary regarding the residual thrust of an idle good engine vs a bonafide engine failure, and how that would change the dynamics of this exercise. Obviously, there would be some difference. Last, I remember doing drills like these in the old days, and the check airman where I worked used to demonstrate that pulling the prop to full decrease made a dramatic difference in glide ratio....and it did. Of course, this was with an engine running at idle. I'm uncertain if that technique would be effective if there was a catastrophic engine failure, as I can't remember if one needs engine pressure to change prop pitch from high RPM to Low RPMs. A teachable moment for me, and I welcome your input. And in closing, the gentleman mentioning that this would be a dangerous maneuver due to the threat of an accelerated stall... I don't believe this would be a factor as long as the load factor was 1G. There are a couple videos out there that seem to show that the steep bank angle is more advantageous (even with the accentuated altitude loss of maintaining 1g) than a shallower turn due to the time involved in turning around. This makes for a good discussion. Thanks for posting, and I look forward to your input.
Gerald, welcome to the forum. You actually hear two horns, they are very nearly the same. There was indeed commentary about the prop pitch... in between takeoff exercises. I explored the impact of the Pitch fine/coarse in the Engine Failure from Cruise video. In this video I wanted to have the impact of the higher drag... for one because in a tight situation like this most folks would NOT pull the prop, plus if the engine truly had a catastrophic failure you might not have enough oil pressure to actually move the prop at all. I felt the setup was more realistic. You are welcome to practice/ demonstrate something different if you like.
I actually like teaching stalls at 1g, I assure you THAT does happen. Plus trying to make a turn burns an enormous amount of energy. I was doing about 45 degrees of bank, which is pretty steep, going with a higher bank is problematic. The descent rate was VERY high at 45 degrees of bank, pitching for airspeed. 60 degrees would probably create a situation where you wouldn't have enough energy to flare even at 81 knots.
Overall, this is a very dangerous maneuver if you are not intimately familiar with how the airplane behaves at the feathered edge of the envelope. Don't expect to get it right the first time. Best to pick some place in front of the wings and land in control.
Great videos Scott. I'm a new pilot, and had a question for you. You've previously stated that you climb out at a higher IAS than best rate of climb because you feel the added speed is helpful (something along those lines). It seems to me that being closer to the airport and having a higher altitude would be preferable in an "engine out" situation, and that could be achieved by climbing closer to Vx. As a new pilot, having an engine out with an airport below me and adequate altitude seems like the best situation, rather than being fast and far from the airport. What are your thoughts?
John-
If you look at the video when we used Vx and failed the engine at 700' with a 3" delay we were very close to stall speed before we started maneuvering, the stall horn even chirped... in this airplane and at the particular load we had. Your total energy is the sum of your altitude and your speed (potential and kinetic). The Kinetic energy of being at Best Glide is greater than the potential of a few feet provided by Vx. I've seen too many folks stall the airplane climbing at Vx with a simulated engine failure. And a little altitude won't do you any good if that happens close to the ground. So, yes I never use Vy. I use Vx to clear an obstacle and then accelerate to my cruise climb speed (which is at least Best Glide). But I want you to try it for yourself. Find an airport, use the runway as a reference, but set your floor about 2000' AGL and practice to see what will happen and set your own Turnback altitude. Set your strategy. It doesn't have to be mine. I want you to fly and find what works for you. I'm trying to give you the tools to figure that out for yourself, rather than listen to the armchair experts. At least that's my nickle.
Scott, great video as usual. One question for both training and real life FO. Pull the prop back to low RPM or leave it maxed?
Nathan- If you have presence of mind... and time... Pull the prop back. All of these training events were done leaving the prop where it was... worst case scenarios.
if you had a loss of oil pressure/a complete engine failure you would not be able to feather the prop in conventional single engine aircraft. The prop would default back to a high rpm blade angle. I always practice emergency procedures with the prop lever maxed or 2500 rpm, or above. You would be surprised how much more drag is created by not feather the prop if you haven't tried already. I personally would leave it where it is because its better to train for the worst. This is just how I practice (not a CFI).
@@patriotsfan1236 Thanks for the input. I agree that train worst case scenario, that way you're ready. Anything better than that is a bonus. One nit though... You can actually feather a twin engine airplane prop (streamlined into the wind) you can only pull a single engine airplane prop to coarse, which is not quite as good as a feather.
@@FlyWirescottperdue I should have specified pulling the prop lever back. Not calling it feathering. I know one of the only single engine planes you can actually feather like a multi is the Mooney rocket and missle conversions. Only ones I know of.
Super cool video. I wonder how many people train like this in their bonanzas?
This would be cool to see using an app like Cloudahoy. It would show lateral and vertical, so you could really pin point where your landing zone would be.
I do use Cloudahoy sometimes, as a matter of fact I used it for a takeoff performance/Rejected takeoff video I just shot-- coming soon!
@@FlyWirescottperdue I can't wait. Your videos are gold...
Nice Video. Got a sub from me.
Nose down to Vglide position, Keep 45 degrees nose down and dont pull for under Vglide. Push if speed going to under Vglide. Why?? Because At low altitude you tend to pull
more than you wanted, specially in a real engine out.
Dont stall it by trying to Steep turn under Vglide speed. Guys that say that have has no experience at all teaching Turnbacks To Opposite Runway (EFATO Question Mark Turns). I taugh hundreds of them since 1992 as CFI.
Pretty much true. I talk about ground rush in the video and getting to 45 degrees of bank and staying close is a hard thing to do for most folks.
@@FlyWirescottperdue They got wimpy training in GRM (Mild GRM). I got used to that as a student due we did GRM at 500 feet, at Vglide and with strong winds too. On the tailwind sections we turned 45 degrees bank that makes you feel going much faster than real. Mild GRM by Mild Maneuvering CFI's can kill you later when having do do Hard GRM..
Can I hear a german accent or am I dreaming? 🤔
Max Michael is German. He is in the Luftwaffe and has been teaching at ENJJPT at Sheppard AFB. He’s headed to Rostock to fly the Eurofighter.
FlyWire- scott perdue Most of us have this accent, just like me so I was pretty sure about that. Even if u speak fluent english, as a german this "hard" pronunciation remains😀 Nice to see two fighter pilots of two generations from completely different parts of the world sharing a Bonanza cockpit! 👍🏼 Only here on ur channel.👌🏼
@@maxhaines3794 Thanks Max!
45+ STEEP TURN @ 81KTS 700 AGL IS AS DEADLY AS IT GETS BASE TO FINAL.. IMPOSSIBLE TURN ! JUST LAND STRAIGHT AHEAD UP TO 30 LEFT/RIGHT!
Respectfully, I don't think so. It may be for you, in your airplane. But you can't make a blanket statement that applies to everyone. I am advocating that you set your parameters, for you and your airplane. I'm not preaching that you do it my way!
FlyWire- scott perdue no Sir I have A36 n I’m just reflecting data provided by FAA : #1 leading cause of fatal accidents in GA is loss of Control and #1 cause of loss of control is stall spin base to final or doing the impossible turn on 700 AGL engine failure on take off!
Can you tell me what your stall speed on77-80kts @steep turn of 45+?
🙏🏻😉
As I said, maybe it doesn't work for you in your airplane, whether it is an A36 or not is immaterial. I know the statistics, why do you think I wanted to do the video? Think about what I'm saying for a second. I AM NOT ADVOCATING A LEVEL TURN. That alone speaks volumes. Have you ever heard of Lift Vectors? The accelerated stall speed with the nose low and with a steep bank is nothing like that for a level turn. Maybe we need to fly together so you can get a little maneuver practice in. Or you can wait until I get to the videos where I talk about turns in the traffic pattern and the dreaded overshooting final turn.
464RJ As long as you keep the nose down and the airspeed up, as demonstrated in this video, the angle of bank will not matter. It’s when you start pulling back on the yoke when the angle of bank starts to cause the stall which ultimately leads to a spin.
@@masterdaddychris5986 Exactly.. Keep 45 degrees, nose down and dont pull for under Vglide. Push if speed going to under Vglide. Why?? Because At low altitude you tend to pull more than you wanted, specially in a real engine out. Dont stall it by trying to Steep turn under Vglide speed. Under the Vglide is better to pop out some flaps, specially if you have some power left on engine.