If somebody makes a comment about you being "nit-picky" , then they can go watch somebody else. Your experience with design, modification and repair shows thru on each video you post to CZcams. Thank you for all that you do. 🙂
Hope Tone King gets a chance to see your video and considers your suggestions. Their Amps have a good reputation, and making some small improvements to make a big increase in their reliability and repairability seems worthwhile.
For a tube amp,in this price range,these designing "flaws" shouldn't happen at all.PCB design,instead of hand and hardwire electronics,10 watt grid resisters,that were blown ,a build in powersoak and powertubesockets mounted on the PCB board,to me ,that are all red flags.This reminds me to Lyle's video on Morgan Amps(build by the same company as Tone King,if i remember this correctly).Chinese tubes and capaciters, that's a low end choice,to the best possible parts in a "Boutique Tubeamp".
@@jochemjonker3362 Tone King's amps, back when Mark Bartel owned the company and was designing the boards, were really stable and well-built. I suspect the new company is trying to save dollars, to the detriment of the amps. Bartel is very detail oriented; Check out his new line, Bartel Amplifiers, and how he builds them for examples of how amps should be created.
@@8sigreg A Sky King was on my short list until I found Bartel's current amps. They are amazingly well thought out and built. I have a Roseland and it is an amazing amp.
Another detailed explanation that was very educational. Fabulous video. I salute you for your refusal to just say I’m just going to replace the same parts and out the door. Improvement for longevity is the goal. Great job.
I appreciate your recommendations for Tone King Lyle. I would would have to say, it appears Friedman is the main brand that had taken these considerations for future repair/maintenance as opposed to the other B.A.D. brands. Though they all use great components and assembly, design is even more crucial with all of that considered. Great to see inside one of these with there pedigree and looking forward to the end repair video. Cheers!
My bet was on wrong tap, bias drift. As others have said, the bear trap on the tube never even registered. I've had the thermal problem before, it's a big problem . First time it happened, I really did damage. Keep up the good work. PS the cornbread came out well. Was pretty different to what I thought. 👍
$$$ ... but for good quality work I'm willing to accept suggestions & pay. Thanks again Lyle for helping this amp be the best it can be. *Edit (I also noticed you cleaned up all that Memphis dust for me, thanks man)
Nice tones from the "Tone King", I would be severally disappointed as the owner to see how this amp is built inside. You said it best when mentioning the PCB layout program faults. I see this as a good design and well thought-out amp circuit handed off to a second party for manufacture. They in turn "made it work" in the space given. No thought given for future service or repair. Typical throw away electronics when it breaks mentality of the industry today. Well done pointing these issues out to future buyers.
Glad you made this video. I was watching a video on a Skyking service and it is very different in lay-out from this one in your video. I think it was built in 2013/4 and every valve has a descreet sub-assembly that has all 5he resistors and caps mounted on a board that looks like it was built to withstand a fall of 100 feet , built like a Tank! Just wondered why (apart from cost) they veered away from that earlier sturdy design? I have a feeling a preamp valve base needs resoldering or just cleaning. More bells and whistles = more to go wrong. The Tremolo is excellent.
It's a shame that the amp blew, and it appears that BAD isn't maintaining the quality of Bartel's work when he owned Tone King. I had a Sky King that he made, and it was an awesome amp with a sound that I loved. Mine came with a Creamback and the 6L6 had regular bases. I never changed the speaker impedance setting or used a different attenuator, only the built-in Ironman attenuators, which worked really well. I ended up selling it because it's pretty heavy and I wasn't playing it enough but kept my Imperial Mk. II Anniversary model, which is a sweetheart amp.
5:22 Lyle, I watch a CZcams channel called Northridge Fix. He does SMD PCB repairs. He has a “low-melt” solder that he adds to the unleaded solder that mixes and makes clean up easier.
Thanks for another of these interesting videos. This time it confirms my mixed feelings on this brand‘s amps. I had their Imperial MKII model here the other day and it was the noisiest amp in my little studio. Similar to what I heard here towards the end of the videos. I sent it back to the dealer. Tone Kings are sold as top notch, highest quality build tone machines for a lot of money. For some owners such a damage will end up in a complete loss of their investment. All depending to which amp tech they will bring it (and it is becoming harder to find good amp techs these days). This is very disappointing and it makes for me another example of companies thinking about their marketing first by neglecting engineering and quality. Not for me.
@@mattchase3153 With no Guitar plugged in it was quiet. With a guitar it got extremely noisy - more than the usual single coil noise. I have other amps and those were quiet. Once I got told that often the quality of the output transformer decides whether an amp is noisy or not. There are pictures in the web where you see ‘Made in China’ sticker on amp parts of the MKII. Why not a high quality US made transformers? As I said, in my view not the best build for the money but wrapped into a nice (candy color) case.
I have an Imperial Mk II Anniversary model, and it's very quiet, even on the lead channel with the guitar plugged in. I suspect the boards have been revised, or the components are not the same quality as when Bartel was running things. 😞
If that amp was mine, I'd probably try to bolt as high as possible L-shaped aluminium profile into the PCB as a heatsink and replace those two resistors with one 25W aluminium housed power resistor and attach it into the heatsink using two bolts.
BAD would do well to employ you as a consultant at the design stage looking for problems certain choices are storing up for the future, thinking of that Morgan particularly
New Sky King today and same buzz! On both channels and on reverb. Hmmm so chassis possibly? I noticed when guitar wasn’t plugged in and I touched the top panel switch and light it made a loud hum. The light did the same thing. But guitar plugged in if I touch it brings it down a good bit. Maybe my chassis is not touching right and weighted down. Like you showed the buzz was coming from it not aligned correctly. I could fit a penny between the outer and chassis…you may be on to something, with realigning the chassis to ground properly. And either they didn’t check during assembly, or it comes lose in shipping being heavy. I may have to ask about this, as the outer screws were lose by 3-4 turns and it had a small gap🤔 Either way I’m severely disappointed right now with two Sky Kings sitting at my home, with massive buzz on the channels, and a buzzing reverb even with the volume off. Just loathing two 68lb box returns, and fitting that into my day 🤦♂️ I hope I can at least simply fix one, because I love the sound! But if it’s too major…I guess back they go unfortunately. Unless they have a local tech they actually pay under warranty to take a look, ad it’s something rather simple. I’m not the only one given what I just saw on a ZZsouunds review. Current batches have been pretty bad it seems on returns.
I didn't know these amps were made with a circuit board. At the price they are I assumed they were point to point. After seeing this video I would be reluctantant to purchase one. I know some amps on boards can be just fine...
I enjoy watching your channel mostly to learn more about repairing amplifiers, and consider you extremely knowledgeable and I also get a glimpse of many type of amps and how they sound/assembled. I just don’t understand why you wouldn’t use a decade box if you didn’t trust the factory cathode bias resistor? Why tack in different values to get the numbers you want? Am I missing something? Thanks
When you say “ultra linear” in this case, are you referring to just the output xfrmr taps or do they relate to the pentode/triode switch for the 6L6’s?How do you like the effect?
Maybe buy a good quality used programmable computer UPS true sine wave power conditioner & battery backup/inverter so you can always have exactly 120 VAC on hand. A used one will be much much cheaper than a new unit but it will also have dead sealed lead acid flood batteries which are very easily replaced for $120 or so. A big enough unit will keep the whole bench alive for 30-45 minutes or so during an outage, which can get you all the way through a job or at least to a good stopping point.
Love these videos I have a couple amps for you to check A 50"s Supro Chicago 51 and a Zinky designed Fender Tonemaster How do I find your contact info Thanks man
What ohm should you run this amp? I reached out to Tone King regarding load boxes and it was weird. So now they run a 16ohm speaker…so makes sense to run it at 16ohm if it’s that speaker…and if possible on load box stick to 16ohm…but when I contacted them they gave me the response below…I’m about to return a Imperial for this amp, and had to ask as I was going to switch to a 16ohm load box from an 8…this was the response given. “I talked to my techs about this, The Sky King has a Special Transformer unlike the Imp mk II or the Falcon Grande. The amplifier can truly be 8 or 16 ohms depending where the attenuation is set, since the transformer is after the attenuator circuit wise. I haven't tried with a load box, so I can't answer that question. You are correct though, The SK has 35w and 2 attenuators. Hope that Helps” I didn’t ask the former…just what way it should be run given the speaker. And if there was any advantage or disadvantages to running a 16ohm vs 8ohm…and possible issues. Most have told me to just stick to 16ohm everything. And it’s odd in demos I see some with I guess is a safe miss match at 8ohm and some running 16ohm. From what I gather for full spectrum response and the speaker…the 16ohm should be run, as should load box…unless you have a external speaker configuration that you need that. I’ve heard 8ohm is less power and more mid focused, as the 16ohm is more highs and bass and overall less cycles to run through and the proper choice for stock. Very much trying to understand this amp. As many don’t have answers and I’m paying good money here to use it at home, in studio and live safely. Great video!
@@PsionicAudio thanks…Tone King must read these comments. They sent me an email after silence for 2 weeks again today after I posted here. Thanks! Glad I could get that cleared up. I swapped out my Two Note 8ohm for a 16ohm anyway. Just makes it simple to have it always at 16ohm (stock speaker)from studio to home and live. Just match the load gotcha…no effect on sound.
Yer, I'm always a bit confused when someone is doing their best to repair something. Everything gets explained too. I did a lot of work and design on factory power systems. 100% the correct attitude to have. I sorted my blue junior out thanks to the excellent information on this channel. Yer I put a pot on the bias but the principle problem was pointed out. Glass is not cheap and I'm so grateful.
My tech who's been at it probably about as long as you have had said that load boxes are never an acceptable substitute for plugging into an actual speaker. I've never talked to another tech about it but I heard you mention them in a way that suggested you might agree. Is that your experience also? I actually resorted to using a tiny high wattage car speaker on the speaker thru output on my load box just to be safe.
I was askiing because he talked with someone at the factory and the amp owner stated that he has never changed the tubes...and that system is not very 'healthy' to those kinds of tubes...
That's what people use it for but I'm sure it'd be useful for sending to FOH. It also has the ability to use IRs which help in either case. The Ironman attenuators are really good, and all I ever needed when I had my Sky King.
I’ve used a Two Notes on Tone King Amps. Mainly for late night long recording sessions. I use the attenuator to noodle around and practice. I’m not playing one at 4-6 squashed with a mic on it. So for recording yea Load Box IR scratch tracks and live PA stuff. Otherwise when I’m jamming or I know what I’m recording I mic. I see the attenuator as more a practice amp thing. I like it more even DI with IR not attenuated sometimes. Attenuation isn’t horrible. But recording fully open, plus using pedal board if you can go loud for many hours…load box is a great 10pm-3am weekend writing machine! Sometimes my demo tracks off the load box make it to real songs. But for studio players writing, those load boxes help a lot to write privately till you know your parts…then you have wonderful guide tracks! That’s how I use them… and jamming live on ve only use -3db attenuation. After work practice, I take full advantage of that attenuation to practice an hour or two. But those aren’t going to get recorded so squashed. I’ll keep mine middle or second to last. I record synths, drums and a whole studio pretty much. So just depends how you use the load boxes. I wouldn’t use them as glorified headphone amps though. Also note I don’t use attenuation on load boxes…pointless to me with the Sky King. They are just to convert to PA or Studio DI and use IR cabs. No attenuation needed for that.
Improving an amps design, reliability, and sound. Will Supro/tone king admit/reimburse you for your findings/improvements of their faults? Or just include/dismiss them?
Tone kings are a pain in the butt to repair. They are needlessly complicated in their construction. It’s built to last forever but when you need a repair you need to dismantle it all, at least for the imperials
The only thing you have to worry about is if you turn everything up to 10 on your amp and wail away for days on it. Attenuators don't make maps die. Playing them full on does.
It would be great to see you go through a Bartel-era Sky King. The component "cages" mounted above the sockets and the overall chassis design were fantastic.
@@PsionicAudio The only reason my Sky King went into the shop was that the tech had just purchased a big batch of NOS tubes, so he hand-matched the preamp tubes for it. While he had it in there he pulled the board to look at it and was very impressed, but it was from when Bartel still owned the company. He still talks about that amp and the quality of the wiring when I go in.
Man after watching this video if this were my amp I’d sell it. Seems like all the capacitors are too close to resistors and will pop like the ones he already popped!
First time I've seen MOX resistors used throughout an amp, any opinions on that bit of weirdness? Has Tone King unearthed the previously elusive mojo of MOX? No fear your plate resistors will burst into flames.
Probably does not make much difference soundwise whether you use metal oxide or metal film. In case of NOS carbon comp resistors higher temperature and voltage coefficient can make some difference but usually it shows up only in extreme conditions and I myself cannot hear any significant difference if I change between resistor types if resistor value does not change.
@@PsionicAudio i meant they could choose to designe it ' better', why a single 10 watt is not enough ? it is only dissipating 4.3 watts , less than half
@@PsionicAudio i think the owner might be using the amp always with the attenuator on full volume so the tubes are still running very hard... i may be wrong
Heh. You should hear the amp live, on the lead channel with the gain at 10, and tone and mid-bite at 5, and the attenuators wide open. It's a very loud ~35-watt amp that gets into Marshall territory. I ran mine that way, controlling it from the guitar, so it only opened up to full volume during a solo, but it was glorious! 🙂
A bad load box can present the wrong load to the transformer, even if only at certain frequencies. Or owner can just run amps "on stun" which can exacerbate pre-existing issues. I'm not saying the Ox caused this. It's just a possible contributing factor.
IMO some players used attenuators like the Marshall Power Brake so that they could max out the volumes &/or master volume to get more gain or hear the power section overloading at bearable volumes. Then they complain that the amp is consuming tubes or needs maintenance more often than they are used to. Then they blame the attenuator and not themselves. I know from experience that a JCM800 gigged and abused at high volumes will melt tubes and fail, even with no attenuator in sight, while the same amp in my studio, treated gently, using the master to tame the volume will run fine for years and years. (knock on wood)
@@YeatzeeGuitar unless send 16 ohms into a 4 ohm cab. Just saying user error is very possible. I think a lot of people just don’t know that much about their gear to properly maintaining it. I will probably never work on an amp, but the more I know about possible opportunities for failure, I’m saving myself money and time.
for an amp that retails for $3k, I am unimpressed. Why can't we get an amp manufacturer that makes an amp worth what they ask for it in price? Just garbage quality, it is really disappointing.
If somebody makes a comment about you being "nit-picky" , then they can go watch somebody else. Your experience with design, modification and repair shows thru on each video you post to CZcams. Thank you for all that you do. 🙂
If there's one guy that I want to be "nitpicky" its the guy fixing my electricals.
@@64cousins too right. A that will be ok isn't something you really want is it.
Hope Tone King gets a chance to see your video and considers your suggestions. Their Amps have a good reputation, and making some small improvements to make a big increase in their reliability and repairability seems worthwhile.
Ditto. Cheers! 🤟😎😸
For a tube amp,in this price range,these designing "flaws" shouldn't happen at all.PCB design,instead of hand and hardwire electronics,10 watt grid resisters,that were blown ,a build in powersoak and powertubesockets mounted on the PCB board,to me ,that are all red flags.This reminds me to Lyle's video on Morgan Amps(build by the same company as Tone King,if i remember this correctly).Chinese tubes and capaciters, that's a low end choice,to the best possible parts in a "Boutique Tubeamp".
@@jochemjonker3362 Tone King's amps, back when Mark Bartel owned the company and was designing the boards, were really stable and well-built. I suspect the new company is trying to save dollars, to the detriment of the amps.
Bartel is very detail oriented; Check out his new line, Bartel Amplifiers, and how he builds them for examples of how amps should be created.
@@8sigreg A Sky King was on my short list until I found Bartel's current amps. They are amazingly well thought out and built. I have a Roseland and it is an amazing amp.
Another detailed explanation that was very educational. Fabulous video. I salute you for your refusal to just say I’m just going to replace the same parts and out the door. Improvement for longevity is the goal. Great job.
A keen eye and loads of experience are a winning combination. Great video. Thanks for sharing.
so very interesting! Thanks Lyle ... keep at it, we enjoy your work.
Best amp tech channel on youtube by far. You really know your stuff.
Ahh yes, the King in all his finery. And his hair is not on fire. Win win! Great video as always. Cheers!
Ich habe eins zu Hause und ich bin so begeistert von diesem Verstärker!!! Eben Sky King!!!
Another great video Lyle, should be a great help for Tone King owners.
I appreciate your recommendations for Tone King Lyle. I would would have to say, it appears Friedman is the main brand that had taken these considerations for future repair/maintenance as opposed to the other B.A.D. brands. Though they all use great components and assembly, design is even more crucial with all of that considered. Great to see inside one of these with there pedigree and looking forward to the end repair video. Cheers!
My bet was on wrong tap, bias drift. As others have said, the bear trap on the tube never even registered. I've had the thermal problem before, it's a big problem . First time it happened, I really did damage. Keep up the good work. PS the cornbread came out well. Was pretty different to what I thought. 👍
$$$ ... but for good quality work I'm willing to accept suggestions & pay. Thanks again Lyle for helping this amp be the best it can be. *Edit (I also noticed you cleaned up all that Memphis dust for me, thanks man)
Ah Wayne the labor fell in the standard bench fee. Two 6L6s and a few standard components - it will be a small bill for the scary symptoms.
Thank you for part 2 :-) You rock
Such a great video. Love the confidence without arrogance. Very informative even to a caveman like me.
That is because he is really million-aire Bruce Wayne moonlighting. Adam West is a master of polite wit.
@@giulioluzzardi7632 lol nice I didn’t realize. It all makes sense now lol
Nice tones from the "Tone King", I would be severally disappointed as the owner to see how this amp is built inside. You said it best when mentioning the PCB layout program faults. I see this as a good design and well thought-out amp circuit handed off to a second party for manufacture. They in turn "made it work" in the space given. No thought given for future service or repair. Typical throw away electronics when it breaks mentality of the industry today. Well done pointing these issues out to future buyers.
Great video!
Glad you made this video. I was watching a video on a Skyking service and it is very different in lay-out from this one in your video. I think it was built in 2013/4 and every valve has a descreet sub-assembly that has all 5he resistors and caps mounted on a board that looks like it was built to withstand a fall of 100 feet , built like a Tank! Just wondered why (apart from cost) they veered away from that earlier sturdy design? I have a feeling a preamp valve base needs resoldering or just cleaning. More bells and whistles = more to go wrong. The Tremolo is excellent.
That older one was built by hand by Bartel and would cost way more than the new ones.
So.
But then again it was much less likely to catch on fire…
It's a shame that the amp blew, and it appears that BAD isn't maintaining the quality of Bartel's work when he owned Tone King. I had a Sky King that he made, and it was an awesome amp with a sound that I loved. Mine came with a Creamback and the 6L6 had regular bases. I never changed the speaker impedance setting or used a different attenuator, only the built-in Ironman attenuators, which worked really well.
I ended up selling it because it's pretty heavy and I wasn't playing it enough but kept my Imperial Mk. II Anniversary model, which is a sweetheart amp.
Thanks again 👍
5:22 Lyle, I watch a CZcams channel called Northridge Fix. He does SMD PCB repairs. He has a “low-melt” solder that he adds to the unleaded solder that mixes and makes clean up easier.
Thanks for another of these interesting videos. This time it confirms my mixed feelings on this brand‘s amps. I had their Imperial MKII model here the other day and it was the noisiest amp in my little studio. Similar to what I heard here towards the end of the videos. I sent it back to the dealer.
Tone Kings are sold as top notch, highest quality build tone machines for a lot of money. For some owners such a damage will end up in a complete loss of their investment. All depending to which amp tech they will bring it (and it is becoming harder to find good amp techs these days). This is very disappointing and it makes for me another example of companies thinking about their marketing first by neglecting engineering and quality. Not for me.
My Mk ii is so quiet that I regularly leave it on by accident, even at high volume.
@@mattchase3153 With no Guitar plugged in it was quiet. With a guitar it got extremely noisy - more than the usual single coil noise. I have other amps and those were quiet. Once I got told that often the quality of the output transformer decides whether an amp is noisy or not. There are pictures in the web where you see ‘Made in China’ sticker on amp parts of the MKII. Why not a high quality US made transformers? As I said, in my view not the best build for the money but wrapped into a nice (candy color) case.
I have an Imperial Mk II Anniversary model, and it's very quiet, even on the lead channel with the guitar plugged in. I suspect the boards have been revised, or the components are not the same quality as when Bartel was running things. 😞
Happy thoughts.
If that amp was mine, I'd probably try to bolt as high as possible L-shaped aluminium profile into the PCB as a heatsink and replace those two resistors with one 25W aluminium housed power resistor and attach it into the heatsink using two bolts.
BAD would do well to employ you as a consultant at the design stage looking for problems certain choices are storing up for the future, thinking of that Morgan particularly
New Sky King today and same buzz! On both channels and on reverb. Hmmm so chassis possibly? I noticed when guitar wasn’t plugged in and I touched the top panel switch and light it made a loud hum. The light did the same thing. But guitar plugged in if I touch it brings it down a good bit. Maybe my chassis is not touching right and weighted down. Like you showed the buzz was coming from it not aligned correctly. I could fit a penny between the outer and chassis…you may be on to something, with realigning the chassis to ground properly. And either they didn’t check during assembly, or it comes lose in shipping being heavy. I may have to ask about this, as the outer screws were lose by 3-4 turns and it had a small gap🤔
Either way I’m severely disappointed right now with two Sky Kings sitting at my home, with massive buzz on the channels, and a buzzing reverb even with the volume off. Just loathing two 68lb box returns, and fitting that into my day 🤦♂️
I hope I can at least simply fix one, because I love the sound! But if it’s too major…I guess back they go unfortunately. Unless they have a local tech they actually pay under warranty to take a look, ad it’s something rather simple. I’m not the only one given what I just saw on a ZZsouunds review. Current batches have been pretty bad it seems on returns.
I didn't know these amps were made with a circuit board. At the price they are I assumed they were point to point. After seeing this video I would be reluctantant to purchase one. I know some amps on boards can be just fine...
A plus point, those failed resistors didn't damage the board.
Cool amp😃👍
I enjoy watching your channel mostly to learn more about repairing amplifiers, and consider you extremely knowledgeable and I also get a glimpse of many type of amps and how they sound/assembled. I just don’t understand why you wouldn’t use a decade box if you didn’t trust the factory cathode bias resistor? Why tack in different values to get the numbers you want? Am I missing something? Thanks
Faster than making a decade box of 10W resistors.
These amps are $4500-$5000 in my country. I’d want it to be perfect for that much.
I think there are too many components in that amp. I like simple straight forward circuits. A 5E3 is a thing of beauty.
When you say “ultra linear” in this case, are you referring to just the output xfrmr taps or do they relate to the pentode/triode switch for the 6L6’s?How do you like the effect?
Maybe buy a good quality used programmable computer UPS true sine wave power conditioner & battery backup/inverter so you can always have exactly 120 VAC on hand. A used one will be much much cheaper than a new unit but it will also have dead sealed lead acid flood batteries which are very easily replaced for $120 or so. A big enough unit will keep the whole bench alive for 30-45 minutes or so during an outage, which can get you all the way through a job or at least to a good stopping point.
we need to see the other side of the board
Are those Psvane-made TADs any good? I'm just hoping we're going to have more than just JJ.
They are, at least so far.
Did they used thermal relief on that C41 pad connected to the ground plane or not? It's really hard to see something through that black solder mask. 😉
Yes but not enough.
Love these videos I have a couple amps for you to check A 50"s Supro Chicago 51 and a Zinky designed Fender Tonemaster How do I find your contact info Thanks man
What ohm should you run this amp?
I reached out to Tone King regarding load boxes and it was weird. So now they run a 16ohm speaker…so makes sense to run it at 16ohm if it’s that speaker…and if possible on load box stick to 16ohm…but when I contacted them they gave me the response below…I’m about to return a Imperial for this amp, and had to ask as I was going to switch to a 16ohm load box from an 8…this was the response given.
“I talked to my techs about this, The Sky King has a Special Transformer unlike the Imp mk II or the Falcon Grande. The amplifier can truly be 8 or 16 ohms depending where the attenuation is set, since the transformer is after the attenuator circuit wise.
I haven't tried with a load box, so I can't answer that question. You are correct though, The SK has 35w and 2 attenuators.
Hope that Helps”
I didn’t ask the former…just what way it should be run given the speaker. And if there was any advantage or disadvantages to running a 16ohm vs 8ohm…and possible issues. Most have told me to just stick to 16ohm everything. And it’s odd in demos I see some with I guess is a safe miss match at 8ohm and some running 16ohm. From what I gather for full spectrum response and the speaker…the 16ohm should be run, as should load box…unless you have a external speaker configuration that you need that. I’ve heard 8ohm is less power and more mid focused, as the 16ohm is more highs and bass and overall less cycles to run through and the proper choice for stock.
Very much trying to understand this amp. As many don’t have answers and I’m paying good money here to use it at home, in studio and live safely. Great video!
The secondary doesn’t change the sound. Set to 8 ohms with an 8 ohm load, 16 for 16. It’s just that simple.
@@PsionicAudio thanks…Tone King must read these comments. They sent me an email after silence for 2 weeks again today after I posted here.
Thanks! Glad I could get that cleared up. I swapped out my Two Note 8ohm for a 16ohm anyway. Just makes it simple to have it always at 16ohm (stock speaker)from studio to home and live. Just match the load gotcha…no effect on sound.
Do you have any experience with Fuchs amps? If you have I'm curious what you think of them overall.
Yes, they're quite good.
Part 2! Here we go!🇺🇸
I don't think you need to apologize for being nit-picky. Everything you have said seems quite logical to me.
Yer, I'm always a bit confused when someone is doing their best to repair something. Everything gets explained too. I did a lot of work and design on factory power systems. 100% the correct attitude to have. I sorted my blue junior out thanks to the excellent information on this channel. Yer I put a pot on the bias but the principle problem was pointed out. Glass is not cheap and I'm so grateful.
Where are these things made.
My tech who's been at it probably about as long as you have had said that load boxes are never an acceptable substitute for plugging into an actual speaker. I've never talked to another tech about it but I heard you mention them in a way that suggested you might agree. Is that your experience also? I actually resorted to using a tiny high wattage car speaker on the speaker thru output on my load box just to be safe.
I’m wary of them. The cheap ones kill amps. People don’t want to buy the expensive good ones (Suhr, Fryette, others). Guess what happens?
@@PsionicAudio gotcha. I use a two notes captor. Definitely inexpensive. *Edited it originally said "definitely expensive"
soo, were the tubes originaly mounted? did they assembled coin based tubes with 'bear traps'?
Originally, the tubes from the factory were not coin-based, at least on mine they weren't, so the traps actually helped.
I was askiing because he talked with someone at the factory and the amp owner stated that he has never changed the tubes...and that system is not very 'healthy' to those kinds of tubes...
Running an Oxbox when that amp has a built in ironman attenuator?
Silent recording etc
Can you use the OX Box to go out to a DAW? I'm a little ignorant on how it works or why you'd use that instead of the on-board attenuator.
That's what people use it for but I'm sure it'd be useful for sending to FOH. It also has the ability to use IRs which help in either case.
The Ironman attenuators are really good, and all I ever needed when I had my Sky King.
I’ve used a Two Notes on Tone King Amps. Mainly for late night long recording sessions. I use the attenuator to noodle around and practice. I’m not playing one at 4-6 squashed with a mic on it. So for recording yea Load Box IR scratch tracks and live PA stuff. Otherwise when I’m jamming or I know what I’m recording I mic.
I see the attenuator as more a practice amp thing. I like it more even DI with IR not attenuated sometimes. Attenuation isn’t horrible.
But recording fully open, plus using pedal board if you can go loud for many hours…load box is a great 10pm-3am weekend writing machine! Sometimes my demo tracks off the load box make it to real songs. But for studio players writing, those load boxes help a lot to write privately till you know your parts…then you have wonderful guide tracks! That’s how I use them… and jamming live on ve only use -3db attenuation.
After work practice, I take full advantage of that attenuation to practice an hour or two. But those aren’t going to get recorded so squashed. I’ll keep mine middle or second to last. I record synths, drums and a whole studio pretty much. So just depends how you use the load boxes. I wouldn’t use them as glorified headphone amps though.
Also note I don’t use attenuation on load boxes…pointless to me with the Sky King. They are just to convert to PA or Studio DI and use IR cabs. No attenuation needed for that.
those resistors look like a manufacturing error.
Improving an amps design, reliability, and sound. Will Supro/tone king admit/reimburse you for your findings/improvements of their faults? Or just include/dismiss them?
I hope they include them. But I doubt it.
Cold joint on the 10k 5w? Or is it time for me to get some new eyeballs
Nothing wrong with your eyes, mate. It's one of a few I found after recording the vid - having slain all the big dragons I then went lizard hunting.
Good spot 👍
@@PsionicAudio How many lizards does take to create a dragon? Nice work!
Tone kings are a pain in the butt to repair. They are needlessly complicated in their construction. It’s built to last forever but when you need a repair you need to dismantle it all, at least for the imperials
I’m scared to mess around with “Power Soaks” or attenuators. Edit: I should probably have the Volume pots changed one day on my YBA.
that's probably why he cooked those resistors imo , you're right
The only thing you have to worry about is if you turn everything up to 10 on your amp and wail away for days on it. Attenuators don't make maps die. Playing them full on does.
It would be great to see you go through a Bartel-era Sky King. The component "cages" mounted above the sockets and the overall chassis design were fantastic.
If one ever comes in.
@@PsionicAudio Yeah, you have a point.
@@PsionicAudio The only reason my Sky King went into the shop was that the tech had just purchased a big batch of NOS tubes, so he hand-matched the preamp tubes for it. While he had it in there he pulled the board to look at it and was very impressed, but it was from when Bartel still owned the company. He still talks about that amp and the quality of the wiring when I go in.
Agreed, I had never seen one built like that and it was the best amp I’ve ever played through. Still regret selling it. I’ll buy one back one day
@@brianhensien Yeah, if it weren't for my Bartel Roseland, I'd still own mine. Just couldn't justify keeping both at my play grade. ;)
👍🏼
Man after watching this video if this were my amp I’d sell it. Seems like all the capacitors are too close to resistors and will pop like the ones he already popped!
First time I've seen MOX resistors used throughout an amp, any opinions on that bit of weirdness? Has Tone King unearthed the previously elusive mojo of MOX? No fear your plate resistors will burst into flames.
Well they aren’t my preference but they will have very few field failures.
Probably does not make much difference soundwise whether you use metal oxide or metal film. In case of NOS carbon comp resistors higher temperature and voltage coefficient can make some difference but usually it shows up only in extreme conditions and I myself cannot hear any significant difference if I change between resistor types if resistor value does not change.
Mystery solved
The Ox Box is a mediocre load box. It doesn’t have the proper low end resonant peak.
It this the current version?
AFAIK
Not liking the BP Cap up in the air though low mass.
That’s a temped-in 85 degree cap. Permanent 105 degree cap on order, will be secured to the board.
wouldn't be just easier to use just 1 cathode resistor and give more space to the small cap? power tubes are matched so...
A 25W resistor would not fit the space on the board.
@@PsionicAudio i meant they could choose to designe it ' better', why a single 10 watt is not enough ? it is only dissipating 4.3 watts , less than half
Two died. They should have handled 20W. But that assumes no tube would ever fail in just the right way…
@@PsionicAudio i see , thanks for the replies and video 👍🏻
@@PsionicAudio i think the owner might be using the amp always with the attenuator on full volume so the tubes are still running very hard... i may be wrong
It seems ok, but... for 3-grand, USD? The cost cutting components used are weird, in a bizarre, odd way...
Thanks for blowing my ears off at the 18:03 mark...
Sorry.
Heh. You should hear the amp live, on the lead channel with the gain at 10, and tone and mid-bite at 5, and the attenuators wide open. It's a very loud ~35-watt amp that gets into Marshall territory. I ran mine that way, controlling it from the guitar, so it only opened up to full volume during a solo, but it was glorious! 🙂
How does a load box damage an amp?
A bad load box can present the wrong load to the transformer, even if only at certain frequencies. Or owner can just run amps "on stun" which can exacerbate pre-existing issues.
I'm not saying the Ox caused this. It's just a possible contributing factor.
@@PsionicAudio Interesting, most people including me think if has the ohm rating correct, no problem.
IMO some players used attenuators like the Marshall Power Brake so that they could max out the volumes &/or master volume to get more gain or hear the power section overloading at bearable volumes. Then they complain that the amp is consuming tubes or needs maintenance more often than they are used to. Then they blame the attenuator and not themselves.
I know from experience that a JCM800 gigged and abused at high volumes will melt tubes and fail, even with no attenuator in sight, while the same amp in my studio, treated gently, using the master to tame the volume will run fine for years and years. (knock on wood)
An ox box will not damage your amp, there are tens of thousands of them being used by professionals across the country. It's not a thing.
@@YeatzeeGuitar unless send 16 ohms into a 4 ohm cab. Just saying user error is very possible. I think a lot of people just don’t know that much about their gear to properly maintaining it. I will probably never work on an amp, but the more I know about possible opportunities for failure, I’m saving myself money and time.
A lot of money to not have sockets for the tubes. Quite disappointing really.
for an amp that retails for $3k, I am unimpressed. Why can't we get an amp manufacturer that makes an amp worth what they ask for it in price? Just garbage quality, it is really disappointing.
Have Tone king actually taken any of your advice and changed to your suggestions