The Good, The Bad and The Ugly Blu-ray 4K review and version history
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2024
- #TheGoodTheBadAndTheUgly #SergioLeone #KinoLorber
This is my in-depth review of the new 2021 Kino Lorber second go round with Sergio Leone's iconic THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY (1966). There is so much to ground to cover in explaining the history of this film over the decades and its video history that I decided to try and do a complete run through of all issues. I have made many timestamps so you may skip just to the 2021 review if you wish but it is essential to understand how we got here.
00:00:00 Introduction
00:05:31 Explaining International and Italian release versions, 1998 and 2003 MGM cuts
00:11:04 Video History-1990 Laserdisc/1993 Trilogy boxset/1993 Japanese
00:15:32 1998 cut Laserdisc and DVD
00:19:52 2003 MGM extended English version DVD
00:26:12 2009 MGM extended English Blu-ray
00:27:18 2014 MGM BLu-ray Ritrovata transfer
00:33:24 2017 Kino Lorber Blu-ray
00:41:16 2021 Kino Lorber BLu-ray 4K review
00:45:10 2021 Extras
00:47:23 2021 Picture
00:49:35 The question of HDR
00:52:52 Italian scenes included as extras
00:53:57 Transfer notes-hairs in gate
00:55:09 Transfer graininess and explanation of Techniscope process
01:00:19 2021 Sound
01:01:32 1990 Laserdisc English mono PCM
01:06:42 New 5.1 remix
01:11:06 Importance of the 2021 Kino release
01:14:15 Why the 2021 Kino is essential
01:16:02 Thanks to Kino
01:18:29 My personal history with the film and research of Leone titles
01:25:00 Thanks to tireless fan preservationists Benji and Jordan
01:29:53 Final summary - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Now THAT'S a thumbnail
Thank you for this, I've always been huge fan of this movie but never understood why the different cuts and audio mixes are the way they are. Very good explanations!
Kino should pay you for this. Amazing insight! Now I'm so excited to receive my copy (will be my fourth time buying this title)!
Fantastic video sir! Great job and very informative; I immensely enjoyed it.
I'm so grateful to have and to be able to watch the superior theatrical cut again. So sick of the extended cut, with the extraneous scenes badly re-dubbed. I miss this cut of the masterpiece so much. The transfer looks so much better than all previous editions.
This is pretty awesome. Back in 2015, I did a color-corrected version of the MGM 4K master for the Ultraflix streaming service. But I guess that is unfortunately lost now. They tended to degrain their masters pretty heavily, so that they would compress better, so it wouldn't have been a great version to watch anyway.
Thank you! Coming from you that is high praise indeed!
Wow, I had no idea you had tried to tackle the Ritrovata master yourself before. I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on kino’s new disc then if you get their new version.
We were in touch briefly at the time. Always wondered what became of this. Thanks for chiming in.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Looking at caps-a-holic, I think my favorite, colour-wise, is still the Italian BD. But this new one is probably my second favorite and is probably more accurate. Speaking from experience, there are probably artists working for the studio, who are constantly fighting an uphill battle to convince the higher-ups, who don't care or understand, that this kind of thing is worthwhile, so it is absolutely amazing to see fans being listened to and fan-preservation efforts, both video and audio, being used to improve an official release.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Also, loved the feature-length video 🙂 Very informative and fun to listen to. Would have loved to see some screenshot comparisons sprinkled in though.
@@HarmyDespecialized In hindsight I should have probably mentioned the Mondo release. I never got to purchase it before it went OOP and to be quite honest totally forgot to include it with the others!!
Screen caps are a good idea. I did think about adding some but the capsaholic page is pretty much complete with every version now which is why I included it in the links. Still it might be helpful next time to include some just for visual references.
I wish I had added a little bit about mgm because everyone thinks and I did for a while that they caused many problems without caring-but no one really meant to cause them. Reading the Savant articles show that the people in charge did mean well even if they caused several films to have issues for years afterwards and even the GBU 5.1 new remix was forced upon them by financiers of the extension project.
Thanks for that great video of my favorite movie. My friendship with GBU started in July 1989 when seen the movie in a butchered tv version. In the meantime I have seen the movie at least more than 100 times. I am looking forward for my 4K copy from Kino Lorber. Hope to get it the next days. Greetings from Germany
Hey Spencer thanks for this level of detail in this review you cleared up alot of complications in terms of version's and brought out alot of things I wouldn't have known about, The mono track being a highlight I ve been watching GBU and the other movies for the last 40 plus years and have a fair few copies of the movie myself..keep up the good work!!
Truly a professional level super intricate and informative analysis on this subject matter.
Excellent review
Great stuff, thank you so much!!
The Ultimate review! ~ I luvd it! Sube'd and looking forward to more of the best reviews on YT.. Thanks
Excellent review, captainsolo! Refreshing to hear thoughts, facts, and opinions from a well-informed reviewer and die hard fan. Keeping spreading the word, my friend.
There are two kinds of people in this world my friend. Those who aren’t yet aware of this stuff and those who really know. Your efforts are still astounding so hearing such great feedback means the world. Thank you!!!!
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader I second the motion that this is a great vid. Thanks for explaining it all so well. It's a lot to discuss and you were very adept at it throughout, you even brought up some stuff on earlier releases that I had forgotten. One tiny correction, the small bits of ib tech prints provided for this release were from original 1967 U.S. prints, not Italian prints. Thanks for the cool shout out at the end!
Best,
Jordan
@@murch13 thank you! I’m so glad you liked it. Here I had been afraid it was too rambling.
I had forgotten I said Italian IB print and really wasn’t sure if it was Italian or US IB so that clarifies that bit.
I’m always happy to applaud your efforts and you both deserve it!
Spencer- thank you and this was a great review. I will be rewatching your review again over the weekend, because I love hearing about the details of all of the previous home media releases & comparing them with the new. Hoping Amazon restocks this Kino release soon so I can get it. Lastly, I will also be cracking open my factory sealed 1998 MGM DVD to see if my copy has the supplemental booklet inside : )
Thank you! You might get lucky. My FAFDM had the booklet still.
Glad that your able to talk and provide a wealth of raw info about ALL parts about films and their quality and not just trying to “sell” the film or disc like every other channel. Sucks that people are probably scared of the long videos that you produce but their very much worth it. Your timestamps will definitely help though and thanks for that. Grateful for your info on the forums too.
As an aside, I always wanted to know if you have any recs of other DEFINITIVE blu-rays/4ks that match or surpass their respective laserdisc/dvd releases in terms of audio?
Thank you! I’ve been thinking of doing a video on this subject or simply just a LDs that sound better than later releases video.
Off the top of my head some that come to mind-Die Hard 1-3 use the thx ac3 5.1 (and presumably LD dts was the same) on all later releases so the Blu-ray’s had it lossless.
Superman the Movie 4k restores the 70mm audio mix in discrete 5.1 where it was only matrix on LD.
Goldeneye and Tomorrow Never Dies Blu-ray hdma is very close to their LD dts.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader sounds great! I think a video like that would definitely do numbers and open more people into the world of laserdisc. I want to get into the og audio of laserdisc and might get into buying disc just to rip and sync (huge learning curve).
Thank you brother. You just confirmed my decision for making this purchase. I'm expecting it in the mail today. Great review! 😎👍
Links to articles, forums, reference pieces and screencap comparisons:
Film formally podcast with Benji and Jordan: sadhillmedia.com/filmformally/s3e10-gbu
Editroomfloor blog: theeditroomfloor.blogspot.com/
DVD Savant's articles on the film's MGM versions: www.dvdtalk.com/dvdsavant/s1139gbu.html
www.dvdtalk.com/dvdsavant/s2907gbu.html
trailersfromhell.com/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-50th-anniversary/
Capsaholic comparison with 2021 4K shots: caps-a-holic.com/c_list.php?c=1687
Bluray.com 4K thread: forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=335417
Sergio Leone Web Board: fistful-of-leone.com
My own Leone livestream: czcams.com/video/WnlFlIYkrL4/video.html
This is the stuff of film buffs. On top of your delightfully thorough breakdown of the new 4K UHD release of GBU, it's gonna be a blast going through all these links. Thanks, Spencer. It is always a pleasure to listen to your thoughts on any Leone-related stuff. I just wish I was 4K capable, or had a Region Free Bluray player to be able to enjoy this Kino Lorber release (as an LD collector, the fact that they used the PCM Mono from the first 1990 Letterbox release of the movie, really got me excited, and validates those of us, who still to this day, collect LDs). The mention of them using this release as a template to test out the waters on whether the fan community and general public alike might be interested on them properly restoring FOD and AFDM is encouraging indeed.
I haven’t had the chance to buy this disc for a while, but when I finally had some spare cash on hand, I had to pick up yet another copy of my favorite movie ever
Wow! Outside of completely starting from scratch, I fail to see how this master could be improved. Both in the video and audio. Even on my extremely scrappy system the difference is night and day
Looks like I’m going to get a massive chunk of shelf space selling off my other copies! I can’t justify any reason to hold onto them anymore (besides the 2003 dvd; it was my first ever copy of the movie and I’ll never get rid of it. I’ll be missing the Frayling commentary, but I tend to listen to commentaries only once or rarely twice, even if they’re very well done like his)
I’ve become a recent blu ray collector and bough the 2011 release of the trilogy, not even knowing about the 4K version. I recently ordered it and am very excited, especially because I had to buy it at resale price.
I’m also happy that Kino has decided to do the first 2 films in the trilogy, it’s a great time to be a collector.
Absolutely!
I'm so happy that we finally got a proper home video release after so many years of imperfections. Aside from the 1998 DVD which I still own, I never consirdered getting another release due to the numerous transfer and audio issues of future releases. Now, I can thankfully reconsider that with this new 4K.
It’s pretty close though there still needs to be a new master from scratch to escape all color issues 100% and we need a proper restoration of the Italian release version. But this is the one Leone modern release I can wholeheartedly recommend which is saying something.
Thank you for this insightful review. I'd intended to visit the locations this year, but Covid has delayed the pilgrimage to 2022.
I would love to do that someday. I hope your trip goes well whenever you get the chance to go.
I remember seeing the 2014 Blu-Ray screen shots pictures of that film. Ugly colors those were. The 2009 Blu-Ray wasn't the best either. I'm glad Kino Lorber fixed so many things with this movie's transfer. I'll be picking this up one day this year.
Amazingly informative and contains all the hard to find information I could want in one place. Thanks so much. Surprisingly, I’ve never seen the film before, so I’ll definitely pick up this release. My one question as someone who’s never seen any version, in porting the audio track from the Laserdisc to this new, completely restored edit, does that cause any sync issues, audio drop out, etc.? Did they splice in extra audio or cut out some to match the new edit? Thanks in advance.
Thank you!!
There are no issues thankfully. It can be incredibly difficult to capture and sync LD audio to a modern master and get everything just right. The LD misses a shot so that complicates it further.
The capture and sync was done by fans who provided the track to Kino for the release. If you listen very, very closely there are two extremely minor spots where you will hear a slight whir for less than a second, which was necessary to maintain the sync and was unavoidable. No one besides me and the fans who did the work noticed that.
The Kino GBU UHD is easily recommendable. Unfortunately I can’t say the same for their UHDs of Fistful or FAFDM.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusaderGreat to hear. And you provided an almost instant response! I just recently found your channel and have been using your reviews extensively to find the best releases of classic films. You’ve definitely gone above and beyond for people like me. I greatly appreciate it!
About the extended cut: When releasing the two first Dollar movies next year I guess Kino will also issue the extended cut of GBU. I don't know how long Kino will have the rights on GBU. It's probably a limited time so they should take the chance to bring us the extended cut..Today I got my 4K copy of the Italian Version of GBU from Eagle Pictures. That movie has a different cut comparing to the Kino Version (175 min.). I think it's the original Italian cut from 1966. For example the Tortur of Tuco has a different cut. The master they used for the 4K is the same of Ritrovato with the known color problem. On first sight it seems to me that Eagles Pictures has weakened the yellowish of the color. But it is still existing. When you see the battle between blu and gray, the running-around of Tuco and the triell in the end the sky is not really blue. It's a mixture of yellow, brown, green and blue. So for me the Kino is still a Juwel. I guess we will never see a better version
I am hearing tons of great news about this new 4K of GBU from the forums. The fact that Kino ACTUALLY mentions that they used a 1967 IB print as the color reference on the actual 4K case was enough to put a smile on my face, just as i knew that it would put a smile on yours.
I can't believe that they not only actually used a brand new mono track that is much more like the 1990 LD Mono (which is more important by far, but they made a brand new 5.1 remix with the original sound effects, i mean i don't think that's ever happened to a movie where they ditch the original sound effects when making a 5.1 remix, only 20 years later to ditch the revisionist sound effects in favor of the original effects again. Mr Cameron, forget about your blue aliens, give T1 and T2 a good release for gods sake.
Very happy to hear that the U.S cut is now finally being restored to its original 1967 glory, glad to hear that the color is correct not just for the accuracy and archival sake but also because color from original prints can be absolutely gorgeous and i am also glad to hear that i will be able to watch the film with the best audio quality possible without going to a LD.
Thank you very much for making this review Spencer, i hope that this review can take off as much as it can on CZcams so some people at least can finally get the message that there are way too many great movies from the past that have been criminally mishandled on Video and they really need to be treated like the works of art that they are.
Thanks for the kind words Pete. Just to clarify the mono on the new Kino is the LD mono directly captured and synced. The 5.1 is a new upmix of the LD mono as well.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader And that is all the better good sir. Just didn't present myself properly. I got too excited.
@@Pete-eb3vo No problem. I was the same way trust me. This video was originally much longer with my excited babbling and such.
Hi Pete, where does that say that on the case? I'm fairly certain they did not use that print as a colour reference.
@@willarossfilm It says so on the back of the case. And it's proudly mentioned everywhere that it is. It is also the same print that fans of the film were able to find themselves.
I can't believe I watched an hour and a half YT video of a review about ONE film. Kudos for making it though. I would have stuck with my MWNN trilogy BD, eschewing the 4K. I have since ordered it.
Thank you! I never intended it to be so long but felt it was necessary since there was so much ground to cover. It was also frustrating that every other video on the same subject was very light on details.
This was the first longer disc review I did and I let the material dictate the length. I do all my other reviews in a similar method but they only have this type of runtime if there’s more to cover.
While I wish it was a completely new non-Ritrovata master the improvements and strides made are really worthy of everyone interested purchasing the Kino release. Not only is it finally a recommendable version but its theatrical accuracy and proper mono is fantastic after all the years of video issues. Plus it shows we support proper treatment and presentation of films when actually done.
Thanks for this video, definetly shows your expertise in the field and I almost made the mistake of buying the 2017 version from Amazon. I just hope that Kino Lorber gets stock of this film as soon as possible so I can get it. One question, is the regular Blu-ray disc just a downsample in resolution of the 4K disc or is it a repackaged 2017 blu ray?
Thanks!!
The new Blu-ray disc is also the new version with LD mono so you don’t have to worry about it being the 2017 disc. Kino is printing more discs so it should be back in stock soon.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader I just got my copy today (had to use Amazon to ship it to my country). Absolutely blown away by this release.
Nice LD sets! Wow.
This movie, along with Star Wars ( episode IV ) are my favourite films.
I bought the Kino Lorber 4 k as well, but it hasn’t arrived yet. I ordered direct from KL.
I am hanging onto my 2009 MGM blu ray as well. Colour is decent and it has the extended scenes.
After watching this phenomenal review I brought it tonight off eBay. I have NEVER seen a review so in depth as this in my life. You must know every frame and every word off by heart. Amazing. I am subscribing too. Thanks a lot
Thank you!!! I really try to make every video I do as comprehensive as possible...and when it's a particular film that I have a long history with and has a history of video and technical problems then it becomes one of these video epics. This was the first one I did where I went full tilt because these details hadn't been gone over by the vast majority of others.
Sadly the later Kino UHD releases of Fistful and FAFDM were much more problematic and not like this GBU UHD release.
From watching your channel I know, like Tarantino, you are a fan of novelizations. In ’67 as a 10 year old I loved these movies and wanted to "own them." The only way to keep ‘em was the novelizations done by Joe Millard. And I memorized them. But they are different. And in GBU the changes between film and movie are massive. I knew you'd be the guy to ask.
would love to know if Millard worked from an English translation of the script- (which I’ve never been able to find) or did he just make up what he didn’t understand to fill holes. I know this kind of detective work has been done for novelizations for other material,(Star Wars) but do wish we knew more about the Leone novelizations. They were as important to me back in the day, as the movie since it was the only way I could "rewatch" until the next "re-release". (And boy were the Leone movies butchered when they came to network tv. I mean butchered! Before Cable my only memory were the novels.)
For the longest time I had no idea there were Leone novelizations. Ever since then I’ve kept an eye on eBay and scoured used bookshops hoping to come across some that weren’t super expensive. I’ve read on some of the few blogs that have talked about them that they are substantially different. My guess would be either thing you mention. Whether it was working from a translated script and/or just making up new material I don’t know.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Somewhere buried in boxes I've got em, at least two. The novelizations of FFDM and GBU. If I can dig em up I'll send 'em up to you. I'm almost dead, and if I did die, nobody else would see em as anything but tired and used paperbacks from back in the day. Sometime I'll find em.
Let’s hope Kino Lorber uses the uncut German Blu-ray as a reference for their upcoming 4K version of "For a few Dollars more".
Kino is supposed to be working with everyone again in order to ensure the edit is finally correct.
Thanks for the 411! Do equally good releases of the other dollar films exist? Or not yet?
Sadly not yet. They all have their own issues. Fistful was first restored in 2007 in Italy and looks quite nice. This restoration is on a pricey Italian bd release or the much cheaper region free German Blu-ray with English mono (best disc overall for price and ease). The later restoration got an awful Ritrovata color grading which is what Kino released. The original USA mgm release is okay but suffers from a number of issues like their FAFDM.
FAFDM is a bit more complicated. The mgm master had lots of DNR and edge enhancement baked in. The new restoration looks pretty good released via Kino but has some issues. Neither has the missing footage or a properly synchronized English mono which has been screwed up since the dvd. Only the German Blu-ray is fully uncut as they located and reinstated the missing footage. However they had to use the mgm master but were able to roll back some of the DNR. Thus you get some dirt and speckling and German opening bounty killers text-but it is region free, has English mono and is the only uncut release. Sadly the mono still isn’t synced but it’s a must.
Both German discs come in a handy double feature set which when import rates aren’t crazy can be had for just a few...dollars.
I’m really hoping Kino follows suit on a similar release of Fistful and FAFDM that corrects as many issues as possible. It would be amazing to get one for DYS but it really needs a new transfer.
After months of not touching my copy and watching other movies I thought were more interesting to me like Dr. Strangelove, Citizen Kane and Mulholland Drive, I finally saw The Good, The Bad and The Ugly and wow, that was a gorgeous looking film, one of the best uses of the art of cinematography. This 4K release just looks outstanding and I don’t regret blind buying this
Thankfully, this 4K master has been tweaked and modified to be as best an effort as possible, given the 4K source master. It was entirely due to Kino actually working with fan historians and using their materials this time. Unfortunately, they did not do so again, and their other releases have major compromises and issues.
Do keep in mind that if the film could get a brand new 4K master done from scratch without any of the Ritrovata color timing issues the presentation could be even better. There also should be a proper restored version of the actual Italian release version which Kino refused to do on this release.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader It is a shame Kino Lorber can be hit or miss a lot of times where they have excellent releases such as this and there’s those ones like The Silence of the Lambs where the Dolby Stereo track is a fold down of the 5.1 track unlike the Criterion and they never fixed the first 20 minutes of the movie
@@pepsiforbread1416 it’s entirely dependent on the master they were given because they just slap it on a disc. It’s very rare for them to pay attention to something or perform their own work on it. They have zero quality control.
i have the 2014 blu ray (european realese) and what i noticed was that every time english text is written on screen ("the good", "the bad", "the ugly", "the end") the quality for that shot is a lot worse than the rest of the film. so the restauration is from the original italian negative but those scenes with the english texts probably come from a bad US-Print, right? is it like that in all versions?
All the text shots are opticals so they had to be done back in the day and then printed onto the film. For the non-Italian ones they were likely a few generations from the negative and so the quality difference would be even greater than the Italian captions.
Every version will be like this and some try to hide it more than others.
I wish you would refer to the running times of the different edits, so that we can more easily understand the differences.
Are you going to review FAFDM 4K release?
Absolutely. Just waiting for my copies in the mail.
Hi is the extended cut color corrected in the 2017 Kino Lober Bluray?
Both cuts are from the same first poor attempt at regrading the Ritrovata master. I'd advise to just completely avoid the MGM Blu-rays and the first Kino 2017 BD. Unless you like MGM's 2003 extended English version and want a version in HD.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader I know the theatrical versions are the originals. But I've seen the extended version so often in the past that for me it's the complete cut. The Italian theatrical version would be perfect.
For some strange reason this is not available in the UK ...so I have imported it to play on my multi region BluRay player ...and the 4K disc is region free but BluRay is region A
Kino doesn’t usually sell discs outside of the US and their Blu-ray discs are region A. However if I understand it correctly all UHDs are region free as the format doesn’t have the region locking implemented.
Classic ;)
I got some good news Kino is doing a 4K Blu ray of Duck, You Sucker!/ A Fistful of Dynamite. The bad news... It's probably going to be done by the same Italian restoration house.
Very interesting. Didn’t watch it all but I am very respectful on ho much you know about the movies and tech. A lot of mis used terms and whatnot in reviews of other people not knowing audio or video. Either way cool they that used a laserdisc for audio. Don’t know if any movies at 44.1. Usually 48khz
Spencer just got 98 good bad and the ugly still in shrink for 60 dollars missed you on the star wars podcast you should have been on thanks keep up the great video’s
Oh cool glad you got it. The 98 LD is increasingly rare and has really gotten harder to find in the past few years. It almost never pops up.
I wish I had been on the SW episode but the taping schedule always conflicts with my work schedule. If I had been on the episode probably would have been twice as long...🤣
What version is the one showing up currently at dollar tree you do not display it in this video it is a DVD Blu-ray combo from MGM appears to have a 2018 copyright
If it looks like this, it might be a reprint of this 2010 combo pack, which includes the Blu-ray disc and Disc 1 of the DVD.
(The mention of a Theatrical and Unrated version is, of course, complete and utter horseshit)
images.static-bluray.com/movies/covers/53912_front.jpg
Kevin is probably right. Mgm has repackaged DVDs and Blu ray discs all over the place with frequent mixing and matching of covers and info with little being correct. After the 2003 version came I it it took me ages to find the 1998 dvd again for sale anywhere as frequently they would have the 2003 disc one inside!
That's exactly how I discovered there was an Extended cut in the first place: MGM/Fox repackaged the 2003 DVD with the runtime/specs for the 1998 DVD on the back!
What about the 3CD soundtrack ?? 😎😎
Currently preparing a review of it as well. It’s absolutely astounding.
1:02:36 I'm glad I saw this, I decided to listen to this track, I'm sure I would have just 5.1'd it otherwise. Thanks, sounded great.
So when I first watched this movie, which is my favorite movie, it was on VHS around 1997. Checked out from the library. The characters were identified on screen in Italian. Very weird. The vhs copy I bought a couple of years later was as it should be.
That’s how the MGM releases were before the 1998 master was done. It first popped up in widescreen on the 1990 Laserdisc that way because they mixed Italian and US print sources.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Watching this again, I see that you explained that. It was very late lol. Awesome video. I guess the version I'm most familiar with is the 1998 vhs version. I still have it somewhere....
This is a masterful film. Ever since I first saw it as a child I've always loved it to death. However I couldn't help but notice immediately that the image of Lee van Cleef on the cover of the 2021 version is from 'A Few Dollars More', not 'The Good, the Bad & the Ugly'.
Yeah it definitely looks a bit weird but that is the original Italian poster one sheet art of the trio and they’ve got Col Mortimer representing Sentenza.
Huge fan of the good bad and the ugly have the widescreen mono laserdisc and the awful 5.1 mix I’ll try the kino oh hey found out of the uk a new copy of the world is not enough Japanese laserdisc brand new for 500 thanks for all your bond history on laserdisc I told Sam hatch he was so happy I could find my bond holy grail thanks for every video you do Jason koestner
Oh awesome you got the Japanese TWINE!
I’m no audiophile but I do remember how much worse the 2014/2017 mono mix was. It was a disappointing release. The 2021 release is fantastic.
I love horror express 1972
Annybody see the 204 mins German tv cut of GBU 1966?
Why do they keep using that picture of Lee Van Cleef on the front cover.. This image wasn't taken from this movie.. This image represents the part of Douglas Mortimer played by Lee taken from a different movie?
They did that on the campaign in some territories. I think it may be a mistake but also it could be to tie into FAFDM especially in Italy as Van Cleef was so well known for Col Mortimer that they dress him identically multiple times in later films.
Many thanks for the info 👍
As fabulous as the 4K looks and sounds, I do find myself watching the 1998 DVD out of nostalgia. That weird screen geometry compared to the HD versions (thanks Caps-a-holic) and hybrid cut represents my first exposure to the film (I was thankfully spared the Extended English Version until 2015). And plus, we're NEVER getting a whopping 62 chapter stops in a film ever again. It's so nice for skimming through the film as I am wont to do.
I know that feeling. The 1998 master is ingrained in my head. The 98 LD is super cool but very tough to find. The audio is pcm there but it is missing a shot that’s on the dvd.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Do you remember which shot off-hand? I don't suppose it's as significant as the exploding wall in the '90 LD
@@KevinStriker if I’m remembering it correctly it’s a shot in the opening of a gun being holstered when angel eyes is at the kitchen. I can’t remember if it’s just that or there’s another tiny shot missing. It’s so minor I never noticed it until starting to get into heavy comparisons with the other Leone experts. I also didn’t notice it because by that point I had only just gotten the 98 LD. It took me years to find at a decent price.
It’s almost time for rounds two and three. I’m hoping it turns out well and of course that means more long videos for me to make. I think I’m going to go ahead and do videos on Leone’s other films too.
I grew up with this film on TV and then VHS. I purchased the first DVD and now, based on what I hear here, wish I'd kept it. I popped my Blu ray open the other night...and immediately saw the L'Immagine Ritrovata yellow push...turns out it's the 2017 re-tinkered version. It does not look good; there is no true black as the levels are boosted significantly in brightness, and even worse is the greenish tint to the "blacks" (really a charcoal gray). I saw this in 35 mm in the 1990's and it certainly didn't look this version, and I'm going to have to get the 4K disc.
That sums it up pretty well. The Ritrovata grade is utter crap and Kino’s 2017 tweaking made it worse. You’ll immediately note the dramatic difference on the UHD release. The bad color isn’t entirely eradicated but the difference is major.
Does it bother anybody else that it's Lee Van Cleef from the wrong movie on the cover?
It’s an original release poster and they actually used similar looks for Van Cleef in other international posters. His FAFDM look essentially became a trademark of sorts. It’s likely the artist had FAFDM stills for reference too.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Cool. Great rundown. Much appreciated.
Are you possibly thinking about commenting and responding to many mainstream reviewers that claim that it is not a very important disc when it most certainly is?
I hadn’t thought of that specifically but admittedly did make this video partially as a response to the lack of scholarship and background information in the majority of reviews so far.
the 2009 DVD had awful DVNR. And i think the 2014 blu ray was horribly tealed. I will pick up the new release.
Absolutely. Kino has done about they best anybody can do with fixing the 2014 master on color and conforming it to the 1967 international release version plus adding LD mono.
Film historian, eh? What journals have you published in? What is your area of expertise?
HabAnagarek I will tell you Sherlock, watch the actual video, go back to any of his livestreams, or look up his website Hi Fi Celluloid Monster. He damn sure knows how to cover important technical ground for the history of classic movies that no hack journalist even attempts to try. So please, be respectful because no one needs your snobby pretentious elitism. 🙄
@@Pete-eb3vo he called himself a film historian, so I asked.
@@HabAnagarek didn't sound like a proper way to ask. Oh well, at least i gave you the answer. 😜
Oh sorry I thought I said aspiring historian. I’d like to be published someday. I’ve written some articles before but never anything that got published in a journal. I look at doing this sort of work as a kind of history even if it falls outside the typical writing that most do.
Definitely many of the great historians and biographers are inspirations of mine.
You really need to understand color - what Kino did to the Ritrovata scan in their first attempt had nothing with BLUE - NOTHING. They got rid of the yellow and did nothing else, which resulted in not blue but dull, faded BROWN. You also need to understand IB Tech 35mm prints - if you've even seen one. IB prints were always timed for carbon arc projection. When they're projected in revival houses with a Xenon bulb you don't see anything resembling what the film actually looked like. So, if they used those prints for timing (I haven't seen the new version yet, but will), if they didn't adjust for a carbon arc light source, then it wouldn't be accurate at all. I'm hoping they did adjust and that this will finally replicate more closely the IB prints. It's a shame they couldn't get an untimed master from Ritrovata. But the thing is, you're young and have no history with this film other than home video, which is its own problem. But appreciate the video and am looking forward to the new Kino.
I hear what you're saying here, but you're not correct that the 2017 release had nothing to do with blue. To get rid of a colour you either have to desaturate those colours (very obviously not what was done in 2017, since the yellow tint affected the entire image and desaturation would have just resulted in a greyer but still yellow-affected image) or you have to push the image away from those colours. Pushing the colour of an image away from yellow means pushing it towards blue, which is what was done here. I think you might do well to not admonish others for not understanding colour when in certain respects you don't have a thorough handle on it yourself.
Still, you're correct that using different sorts of projection bulbs yields different colour results, and everyone involved in this release (including the owners of the print) is well aware of the importance of using carbon arc projection for optimal results. However, the IB Tech print that was provided to Kino for this release was not used as a reference for colour.
@@willarossfilm I know more about film color than most, friend. I've been in film since I was twenty-two. I had one of the biggest IB collections in the world in 16mm and a smaller but potent 35mm IB collection, including The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly and the other dollars films, Vertigo (best print ever), The Court Jester, all the Bonds, and on and on. I'm glad you think they pushed the blue - I didn't see a jot of any real blue in that pitiful Kino attempt, sorry. I just saw a mundane, brown mess. I've seen every Leone film at the time of its release, multiple times - they all had a very specific look, those IB Techniscope prints when projected with the light source for which they were timed. When Robert Harris tells me I'll be mostly happy with this new attempt, I believe him, and that's exactly what he told me. When the horrendous all yellow transfer of The Searchers came out on Blu-ray everyone said it was perfect and brilliant - I was the ONE person who called it out for what it was, and then Robert took my side, we found out that WB hadn't even used their reference IB as a reference, and NOW everyone understands how wrong that color was.
@@haineshisway Please don't mistake me, it's clear that you know more about film colour than most, your knowledge about projection bulbs made that clear, but that does not preclude being wrong on this point. I also have a history working in film, and regularly work closely with an accomplished colorist - he made the diagnosis that it had been pushed towards blue before I said anything to him. He even fairly accurately recreated the look of the Kino 2017 edition right in front of me - by shifting the 2014 blu-ray's image away from the yellow side of the colour wheel, towards blue.
It's not even something I have to judge by eyeballing the different editions, which can be an unreliable means of coming to conclusions: I've looked at colour parades for a number of shots in both the 2014 and 2017 discs, and the blue channel is significantly more elevated than the red or the green. It's a disproportionate jump. So the blue push on the 2017 disc is a fact of colour science.
@@haineshisway Oh he has no history with film eh? Did you even watch the video, did you even realize that he did a livestream on Sergio Leone?
@@haineshisway He didn't really get anything wrong on the films history on video with the color timing, and the 2017 disc clearly has plenty of shots that are on the bluer side so I have idea no idea what is up with your condescending tone.
Can someone please help me :)
I want to buy Sergio Leone's spaghetti westerns on blu-ray but just can't decide which one to pick. It's like every version has its ups and downs.
So far I found the following versions. I'm guessing the 20th Century Fox (UK) will be the exact same transfer as the MGM (US)? Are there any other UK/US versions that are the same transfer? Which one of all these versions do you suggest and why?
A FISTFUL OF DOLLARS
-20th Century Fox (UK 2013)
-Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer (US 2011)
-Kino Lorber (US 2018)
-Kino Lorber (US 2022 ''4K'')
FOR A FEW DOLLARS MORE
-20th Century Fox (UK 2013)
-Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer (US 2011)
-Kino Lorber (US 2019)
-Kino Lorber (US 2022 ''4K'')
THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY
-20th Century Fox (UK 2013)
-20th Century Fox (UK 2014 ''Remastered'')
-Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer (US 2009/2011)
-Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer (2014 ''Remastered'')
-Kino Lorber (US 2017)
-Kino Lorber (US 2021 ''4K'')
THE MAN WITH NO NAME TRILOGY
-20th Century Fox (UK 2010/2014)
-Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer (US 2010/2014)
ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST
-Paramount Pictures (UK 2011)
-Paramount Pictures (US 2011/2017)
-Warner Bros. (US 2013)
DUCK, YOU SUCKER!
-Eureka Entertainment (UK 2020)
-Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer (US 2014)
-Kino Lorber (US 2018)
Many thanks!!! :D
It’s still complicated. On GBU you can get the 4k Kino and have a proper recreation of the international cut and proper mono.
Fistful is still problematic, FAFDM is pretty good on the Kino but not perfect, OUATITW is the same Paramount master but doesn’t have any of the slightly extended Italian footage and has errors of its own, DYS is messed up on virtually every release and is in terrible need of a new transfer. OUATIA is best on the 229min Warner BD for proper color timing and Leone’s cut of the film. Unfortunately it and all modern releases only have remix audio. The new extended master has horrible color timing, remixed audio and the added footage was not part of Leone’s release cut of the film.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Thank you for taking the time to help me out!
So you suggest the 4K Kino Lorber for the Dollar trilogy, the regular KL for Duck You Sucker (or the MGM) and the Paramount for OUaTitW? Is there a difference between the Paramount releases though? There is one from 2011 and one from 2017.
@@M_Dutch97 The Paramount releases are the same and so is the version warner distributed for a time. I recommend the 4K Kino for GBU but I don’t really have a clear recommendation for the other two dollars films. The new Kino FAFDM is pretty good but not perfect.
Duck You Sucker is a mess on all releases. There’s the old MGM master with problems that Kino re-used, and the Italian version with problems that was later given a terrible color timing. Eureka made the best package and includes both masters but the film is slightly trimmed for horse falls and has the new color grading on the Italian master.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Sweet, thanks mate😁
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader The old Warner Bluray of Once upon a time in America has part of the image cut off and the color timing isn't really right either. I'm German if my English isn't right