Repacking Makita 18v Lithium battery with New Cells (Save $$$'s)
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- čas přidán 9. 04. 2020
- Using salvaged cells this only cost me $16USD in components to repack my old batteries.
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Both lights flash for error, yours were solid meaning the battery was over 80%, look upon the legend. ))
Good catch - exactly the comment I was going to make.
I know im asking the wrong place but does anyone know a tool to log back into an Instagram account?
I stupidly forgot the account password. I love any help you can offer me!
@Emilio Angelo thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and I'm waiting for the hacking stuff atm.
Takes quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
@Emilio Angelo it did the trick and I finally got access to my account again. I'm so happy:D
Thanks so much, you saved my ass!
@Abdullah Daniel you are welcome :D
Thanks for the video!
Battery companies: "damn they are helping each other! Seal the batteries!"
Nice job - very professionally rebuilt. That spot welder really is a must for this type of thing. Cheers.
I've built plenty of packs with a 150W soldering iron, works just fine.
@@axiom1650 How did you do that, I thought it was dangerous using an soldering iron on batteries.
@@brianbecking1 Quick in and out with a beefy soldering iron, the heat doesn't have time to spread.
@@axiom1650 You are not the only one. But it's not recomentded.
How does it make financial to fix ~40€ pack with a 150€ spotwelder? Some BMSes needs continious power to work otherwise it counts as a fault, some are even programmed for limited charge cycles.
The initial check showed ~500mv discrepancies -- which would force than balance themselves - e.g there was 3.6V and 4.1V cells, setting them in parallel is just dumb as it will cause the 4.1V to charge the 3.6V at very high current. This the likely reason for the error. The correct way was charging (or discharging) each cell individually to the same voltage with some 18650 charger that are extra cheap.
Great video no one else that I’ve seen explained how the older style makita circuit manages cell balancing.
That's because the Makita pack doesn't do any balancing. It cannot even check individual cell voltages.
Safer to balance charge the pack for the first time. If you don't have a balance charger, fully charge each cell to 4.2V. It's way better to start with a balanced pack because in time it's more likely that the pack will get even more unbalanced.
Great video btw, I enjoyed watching! I've done the same operation a few years ago.
Alternatively, -since I'm concerned about soldering on fully-energized cells,- if you have a charger that has a voltage readout, just charge each cell to the same level as highest-voltage cell.
Yes, I noticed he didn't match voltages as well but a safer option would be to charge to storage or nominal voltage prior to working on the pack. Avoid working w fully charged liion wherever possible.
All the cells must be at the SAME voltage before starting the build. With no balance cirquit, with inbuilt imbalance you will always be overcharging some cells to start with.
ideally you should use a hobby charger. let's you know if you have a bad cell, and charges or discharges the cells for you, balanced
@@HobbyFinn2 hobby charger
You make properly well communicated, and helpful videos.
Thank you!
Never realised I was missing a spot welder in my kit. Will have to grab one now
That spot welder looks like a heart starter or other fun depending where you poke it. If I was doing this a few photos at the pull down stage tends to really help at the rebuild. But that's just the way I work, especially when I'm ripping apart something new and different
defibrillators fix heart rhythm, they don't restart hearts. CPR restarts the heart. Movies lies.
watched this video knowing i wasn't going to do this ever..great vid tho :)
bloody comedian.....🤣
lol
I watched this video knowing I was going to do this but knowing it probably wouldn’t work loolollllllolo
You are not alone.
So did I !!!
Awesome work, well done, but that spot welder costs more than a new Makita battery. It's only worth doing this if you already own a spot welder or you're planning to use one for future projects as well.
Consider it an investment. With the spot welder, you never have to buy another tool battery, just replace the cells. Over the last 15 years of doing various types of construction, I've gone through easily more than a dozen 18v tool batteries. At this point, I'm ready to start looking at ways to stop spending $100/battery every few years. Plus, there's the fact that he not only swapped cells but gave it an Ah boost in the process. Over time, the spot welder will definitely pay for itself - even without the fact that every new tool opens up new possibilities for other projects. I guarantee I won't be stopping at tool batteries once I pick up a spot welder.
I bought a li-ion based spot welder for 69USD, it works well . Similar to the one reviewed here czcams.com/video/mt0229lU9sU/video.html
@@TheCharleseye i really doibt the economics. Both time and the money for the cells themselves also need to be taken into account
@@MartiniPinball That's a false premise. I never get paid for my down time. If I choose to use my _literal_ free time to do something that is beneficial to me, that's me compensating myself during the time I'm not earning money. If that benefit helps me to keep earning money (I use my tools for work) then that's a bonus. The fact that I enjoy tinkering with this stuff means I'm "paying" myself to play with things that I enjoy and will make me money. The downside is what, exactly?
As for the cost of cells, they're not that expensive. $5 a piece, new, if you're not buying in bulk and that's for higher capacity, high draw cells. You can use the same kind as what came in the pack for about $3/cell.
Some people get pretty good results from cheap 20 dollar spot welder kits. Not as robust but maybe worth the try. I'm about to try one myself.
Best video ever on CZcams for replacing new cells in a makita battery. Thanks a lot dude.
That was the best demonstration I’ve seen yet, very good job. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
I'm appreciated that you've made this tutorial as clear as possible, I finally had a full picture about this stuff. Thank you and great job!!
It was a lot of fun and fulfillment to try to retool, and the factory price was cheap. Brand new and original. Quality is guaranteed. contact us
It was a lot of fun and fulfillment to try to retool, and the factory price was cheap. Brand new and original. Quality is guaranteed. contact us
It was a lot of fun and fulfillment to try to retool, and the factory price was cheap. Brand new and original. Quality is guaranteed. contact us
this is ingenious!!! i may be upgrading my drill soon the same way. 🤙 you, sir, have earned a new sub👍
Thnx for the tutorial ! It was well done, and you a beautiful clear voice , which was a pleasure to listen to !
I just got myself a Kweld a few weeks ago. I love it!
Brilliant learning opportunity for all of us. Please keep posting. I run a Repair Cafe and what you do really helps us reduce waste, thanks Christopher...
I’m with you on that, I help with the Kenilworthone.
ayyyy im looking at sometime in the future starting a repair cafe
Useful repair, great vlog.
Thanks for sharing and stay safe all.
Great video! It was enjoyable watching you put this together. I did learn however that it's definitely not worth for me to fix the battery myself since I do not have the materials and tools necessary haha.
agreed. great video but unless I'm making a lot of these to sell, I'd be ahead buying a new one.
You work is very clean and professional, thank you
Not really, he should have replace damaged cell covers, it is high risk of shortage and fire :) Also should have used plastic ruller to masure.
Great video! Just a note: you didn't get a "battery error." The battery error is signaled by FLASHING red and green lights. When they're solid, it simply means the battery is more than 80% full. It happens during every charge cycle. Thanks for sharing!
Right, battery was OK in the first place, didn't need to drill few hundred holes :)
Exactly
Yea, tbh the lights aren't the most straightforward. Thought I had 2 faulty batteries myself when I first got mine. And mine has lines connecting the bottom lights directly to the battery fault row, as if that's only what they're for... -___-
Took more than a few minutes of staring at it before it clicked that the other dots aren't even lights, they all have to use the bottom.
@@drankydrank1 yep. Thats mukeeta...
Yep I was going to say that as well, spot on.
Very nice video tutorial. Learned a lot by watching it.
I'm currently learning how to remove the dead 18650's from cordless appliances and replace them with good ones that test okay. Amazing how many cordless appliances with non-user serviceable battery banks inside are headed to a landfill when all they need is fresh batteries. (Manufacturers are deliberately making cordless appliance Li-ion battery banks inaccessible so that consumers have to buy whole new appliances when the batteries can no longer hold sufficient charge. What a waste!)
Agree. Its a disgrace that companies make ewaste like that to gain profit and it should be illegal
Just took apart a Victa battery pack. They made it super hard to take apart. I don't have a spot welder so my plan might fall apart. It seems like the cheap batteries come from China but if anyone knows of a good Aus source let me know. (I kind of need to get my weed wacker running in the next 2-3 weeks and can not wait for the China shipping...)
@@IronMan-jv6md You might be able to throw a spot welder togethr from an old, discarded microwave oven. There are some good YT videos on how to do that. Hope you get your pack back up & running.
It would help if the general populous weren't so deeply stupid. The fact is, user-replaceable cells open companies up to all manner of liability.
Look at what happened when vaping went mainstream. Clueless people with unregulated mods, using the cheapest 18650s they could get their hands on, combined with sub-ohm coils. Those of us who know better saw the writing on the wall. Did the news outlets blame the idiots who were doing stupid things with their tubes of electricity and setting themselves on fire? Nope. They blamed vape product manufacturers. There is no way any tool company is going to risk the bad press and possible lawsuits that would stem from letting people mix cells, reverse polarities, run garbage cells, etc.
We no longer live in a world of personal responsibility. Society chose to "protect" the stupid by blaming every company that doesn't make their products idiot-proof. If I ran a consumer products company, I wouldn't make batteries with user-replaceable cells, either.
@@TheCharleseye True, but some lithium battery standardization would solve that problem. It makes no sense to have an infinite variety of lithium batteries when alkaline batteries are reliably standardized and easy to shop for.
An intelligent sentient species wouldn't power its tech with non-replaceable power modules that fail years before the devices they power.
What we are doing is stupid & wasteful. And polluting of our environment.
Thank you. There aren’t too many channels that have actual real world usefulness, so when I find one, I subscribe and share. Cheers!
Oh thanks! I strive to put as much use into each of my videos as possible. Glad you found my channel :)
Really love your spot welder so convenient and simple
I refreshed my old Bosch drill from ancient dead NiCad cells to 4S2P 18650s a few months ago and its been great. An active balancer keeps the cells bang on. Had to design and 3D print a new case as the cells wouldn't fit the standard case. Fits great and looks the business in bright red PETG. A very worthwhile mod.
I replaced more ni-cads with lithium than the other way around.!
BOSCH
not
Bosch
Pay attention to detail
Make sure the brain sees exactly what the eyes are looking at
Also - learn that all CORPORATE {Legal} names are ALWAYS in the ALL CAPS ITERATION
The reason for it is above your level of present knowledge.
You would have to understand Law and Latin as well as the CORP'SES in the cemetery
** That is your clue **
@@andrew_koala2974 many thanks for you're comments.
Just one question if I may. Are you referring to my level of present knowledge in law and Latin? If so, then you are correct. It is above my level of present knowledge in those two subjects, but if you are going to write patronising replies then please try to be specific.
@@andrew_koala2974
Is VANKER a German Co ?
We'd love to dyno test the power (impact wrench torque) difference from a custom pack like this and new!
That would be nice to see the difference 👍🏼
It's the same..he actually Downgraded...The Pack he has is rated for 3.0 AH....the pack he replaced it with is 2.6AH ...both 18Volts but the time maybe he lost about 5 minutes worth and little less power too.
@@paperlessdigs6169 that is incorrect. The cells he used are 2.6Ah, that is correct. But, you must remember that this is a 10 cell pack that is 5s2p. The lower row of cells are added in parallel to double the capacity, making it 5.2Ah.
AH ratings only generally reflect run times and not amperage output, and typically speaking lower capacity cells are rated for higher amperage, as long as they are not super cheap knock offs.
Exactly, that original pack had 1500mAh cells. 2 in parallel = 3Ah. He used 2600mAh. Double that= 5.2Ah...
That was really good, thrown out a battery recently but will give this a go next time.
I love this video. You took the time to explain everything. Thanks!
I just did a similar thing with my father on an 18V Ozito battery, ( Bunnings brand), we knew about the spot weld method but only had a soldering iron, & yes we knew about the heat problem so were very sparing when using it as we had to use what we had. It was a bit of a frankenstein job but it did work in the end for a bit, a tip i'm not sure if you mentioned, but when a battery reads dead, only a few of the cells may be gone, we only had to replace 2, wish I had seen this video 1st, at least I know what to get the old man for christmas, cheers.
Soldering is OK(but not great) to connect cells together as long as you are experienced with soldering and have a high wattage soldering iron (100w+) so you can melt the soldering fast and remove the iron. Most likely the worst that can happen is you will lose some of the cells capacity if you heat it up to much.
Dont forget to charge each cell to the same voltage first. If i remember it right some were 4.1V and some 3.6V
To me it looked like he balanced them. Maybe he forgot to mention it🤔.
He didn't balance them. Also, his Makita pack is an old one that doesn't have a Balance function, and doesn't even have individual cell voltage monitoring. So starting off with a unbalanced pack is just a disaster waiting to happen.
You are absolutely right, that's why the charger went in faulty situation, he should have balanced the cells first. Moreover, first time I see such a BMS, normally should have 0-4-8-12-16-20V connection points....
Thanks for the great video. I love how everything is done so cleanly. A lot of videos are soldering hacks with massive dirty soldering tips etc... ewwww
I was going to ask you a question but you answered it already.
Good video.
Really nice job mate - well explained - such neat work & love that spot welder
you can buy 7 new Makita batteries for the price of 1 welder!
I think this is a first - I liked this advert purely because I liked the adverts in it. I didn't know about the PCB company, nor the tiny spot welder!
thank you really helped me a lot you are very good at your job and this video is wonderful I recommend it
Really impressed! Thank you.
Excellent video. Really give me a clear picture of how to do it and what tools are needed. Thanks!
This is a good tutorial but one thing I would say is make sure all cells are at the same voltage or as close as you can reasonably get.
Just get a simple single cell 18650 charger and charge them all to the same voltage first, that gives you the best chance of getting a good pack and is far less confusing for the BMS.
If you don't then the cells may never get to equilibrium.
Agreed. Especially since this BMS doesn’t have cell balancing.
before building a bat pack I always charge the cells individually for them to have the exact same voltage... if the BMS don't a balancer function you will always have unbalanced cell on your pack and that will shorten its life.
An excellent tutorial... WELL DONE!!! 10/10
Thanks mate! I appreciate the high ratings ;)
Well explained in a patient manner. Thumbs up
Your charger just said your batteries were at 80%+ charged. They have to blink if your charger thinks your battery is broken.
I was confused too🤷🏻♂️, I was like.. am I missing something? he said the charger thinks the batteries faulty! cuz I have tested new in package Makita batteries, good used ones and an old faulty one on my charger, so I know what the lights means. Lol
lol, those battery indicator keys take a bit of study to read sometimes. I totally missed it the first watch through that the rays off the lights mean flashing and that there was even an 80% charged light combination which I guess is useful if you need the battery now and don't want to wait for the final '20%' but that's absent in most other brands I think (I'm most familiar with Ryobi)
@@TwoTall1988 80%-100% takes as much time as 20%-80%, so it's very useful indeed. I now have over 30 18V Makita batteries which I take to the job, so I rarely even take my charger anymore, but I used this feature a lot when I only had a few batteries;
@@Tools-awesomeness You got it, like many guys say, read the manual. So many things you can learn there.
I like how you can change the tune on the charger, so it plays a different song/ notification. The chargers can be hard, I remember making a similar mistake as in the video and almost got rid of a good battery.
The battery charger didnt show a battery error, it showed it was higher than 80% charge =) The LEDs didnt blink
Great repair good video as always
Absolutely Spectacular demonstration.
I processed an incredible amount of easily digestible information in a miniscule amount of time.
You are a Boss!
Effing awesome. Now I'm off to invest in a tack welder
I think you mean a spot welding machine. Tack welding is the temporary welding for non-electronic parts. Since I was misled so I hope you don't mind me pointing that out.
Spot welder* kweld to be exact
Thanks for the video. In order to avoid the problem with the charger, you could have charged also the cells individualy before constituting the cell pack.
That's such a great idea mate, awesome vid, thanks!
Why has it taken the algorithm so long to bring this channel to view? What an awesome video, tutorial, instructional etc. And, for about the first time ever, I watched the sponsor ad. Likely because you did such a creative job of presenting it. Normally, the creator just throws the sponsor ad in as a chore, but you brought some good humor into it, and I watched. Not only watched, but now I am going to the sponsor's site to see what else I've been missing out on.
I'm going to check out more of your videos and likely will subscribe. Thank you for your time and efforts.
Gotta repair a lot of batterypacks for that €159 spotwelder to pay itself back..... 😬I mean for own use..
Great video otherwise! 👍
right now, in USA at my Local home depot, it would only take about 3 bad battery packs of 4.0 amps to justify the spot welder for fixing my old packs instead... But sadly time is too precious and I probly will not get around to it
But once you get the spotwelder, you can build other battery backs too. I don't think that it's a waste, more like investment.
@@innocentidiot9521 I agree, but the initial investment is pretty steep if your'e not gonna keep making packs... luckily a collegue has invested in one...👍 will probably try it when I'll try and swap cells in my daughters airboard...
I own a kweld because I build battery packs for electric skateboards and large power wall type battery packs. I also rebuild power tool packs.
Whistles hey daisy free circuit boards lmfao love it
Wow awesome
I should try this with my 20v DeWalt, very cool, thanks.
Not likely to do that soon but I sure learned a few things... bms, spot welder, faults etc... thanks. 😊
You should have pre-charged each and every cell to a common voltage, as close as possible to avoid those errors. Other than that awesome job.
Could you discharge the ones that measure at a higher voltage, so they all end up the same?
@@Mickparrysstepdad yes you can. The thing is each and every cell should have similar MAh and similar charge level. They can be all full, half or even without charge. As long as capacity and charge in each and every cell is same you should be fine.
As someone who has spot-welded battery packs professionally I have to say welding multiple lithium cells together is extremely dangerous. If you were to rupture or short one of those cells, which can happen with an arc welder and a lack of experience, you could be seriously injured.
So what is your suggestion? Is there a safer way?
and?
@@Nikolasz1173 And so it shouldn't be done by people who don't know exactly what they're doing. I also have professionaly rebuilt Ni-Mh and Ni-CD packs and even though I'm professionally trained there's a damn good reason they don't let us rebuild lithium, and that is because one tiny mistake or short and you can lose your fucking hand. The creator of this video acts wayyyyy to cavalier regarding how dangerous this can be, and gives few too many warnings.
@SuddenPaintball I think anybody attempting to do this (myself included) knows the dangers of this already.
That's why you do it in your neighbors garage, duh.
Many thanks... fantastic, I've a bunch of Makita batteries showing error, waiting for a answer to fix... great and super useful video
Cheers
Nice and complete tutorial ! Thank you !
JLCPCB have a branch in 'Uddersfield in West Yorkshire funnily enough.
They won't be making PCB's there I guess. Too much pollution.
Uddersfield sounds best with a "brummy" accent Ary....
Thats near cleckUDDERSfact
Replacing them is the easy bit but where did you get the salvaged cells from ?
Laptop batteries usually, but that's disappearing fast
@@TheGuruStud My guess is ebikes or escooters since you can't find laptops with cells like these anymore.
18650 batteries are extremely popular in the vaping community
like the spot welder,out his ass. like,,$16,, joke..
Ioy goin ta try this on ma batrees. Thanks from midwest America. 😉
My fav part is that you didn’t edit out the failure and solution. Awesome.
I was opening the battery 2 days ago and your board look very simple comparing to mine, same capacity. Previous battery that had a faulty cell was refusing to work, even with different cells. Reason for opening was my intention to balance the cells of the battery, that I found perfectly balanced without me.
I have bought several old Makita packs with dead cells and replaced the batteries for a nice cheap pack with a large capacity.
That's what I do too. Way cheap
@@randybobandy9828 on doing yrs do you have to weld the nickel strips or can they be soldered.
@@6lr6ak6 - if you don't rip off the old nickel strips, then you can certainly solder those strips together. In fact, that makes a better connection AND there is less risk of damaging the cells by tearing/breaking the old welds then grinding them flat!
Very well done. It was a little confusing seeing you strap the 4 batteries together. That seemed wrong but I guess not. I have the same one that has one bad cell. . Maybe I’ll give it a shot.
Dont !!! If you dont understand basic battery layouts then id advise you stay well clear until you have a solid understanding of whats going on..
Great video thankyou now I completely understand how I can fix my old battery
As a best practice building battery packs it's a good idea to either top or bottom balance the cells. You'll pull more capacity and extend cycle life especially when using a bms without any form of balancing. Your highest voltage cells are going to consistently overcharge and the lowest voltage may over discharge.
all bms have internal balancing circuit
@@yolandfathe2863 you just watched a video featuring a bms that doesn't have a balancing circuit.
The only management it's doing is disabling charging due to split pack voltage variance and temperature protection along with under volt protection.
We've found a few tools struggle with 0.2mm (pure nickle) strip. Some of them are seriously high drain (the impact wrenches etc). I've yet to measure Makita's original thickness though. But for comparison Ryobi uses 0.3mm and Hitachi uses 0.35mm, I even found an aftermarket Ryobi that used 0.35 but may not have been nickle, couldn't try at the time. Spot welding 0.3mm+ becomes a little harder, even the kWeld says that is their top end with the ultra caps. I've contacted the "chinese" bench spot welders to see what they claim on theirs and its often tops at .2 .25 etc (which surprised me really) - yet to try one for myself though. I had missed it was 8mm, our problems were on 6mm, ended up doubling up with 5mm.
It seems like the highest resistance in the circuit would be the narrow point of connection at the spotwelds rather than the conductors. If I was running into current problems, my first reaction would be to add another weld or suspect that my welder wasn't working well. (I agree that if you're finding manufacturers use thicker strips, that must be the "real world" answer... just thinking out loud & wondering if someone can explain why the weld isn't the bottleneck.)
Some Milwaukee use nickel plated copper. It's far thinner than straight nickel.
I've seen a video where the guy welded multiple strips on top of the other, so you could use the thinnest (0,2 or even lower) and weld two of them in succession?
Yes, my spot welder us good to .12mm. I double it if needed. The Chinese knockoffs use nickel plated steel alot. It is junk. Carries ½ the amps of pure nickel
Thanks for your great information and Professionalism from Thailand.
Super cool video, great job man :)
When you factor the cost of a new battery pack, it’s a good investment to repack. 👍 so where do you get these salvaged packs like this? I wanna repack 1 but also wanna make some 3 & 4s packs for other stuff!
Old laptop battery.
Dunno where you live but no it's not. New circuit board 20€, salvaged cells 20€ and time used 2 hour let say 40 € so all total 80€ and i can buy new battery cheaper.
@@dare2dare No, laptop cells are low current drain. Definitely not suitable for the high current demand of a powertool battery.
Laptop battery, phone modems, etc.
@@mr.wizeguy8995 I don't think it would take 2 hours especially after a couple of goes.
If you did multiple at a time you'd probably be more efficient. Also I struggle to justify putting at $ value at time used unless you were seriously going to use that time productively.
I'm a salaried employee so it's not like every time I watch a show it's costing me $50 an hour because It's not like I could do extra work to earn more money than say if I was a a trademen =_=. Even then you would have unproductive hours in the evenings when you couldn't work anyway.
Would I rather spend a $1000+ on 10 batteries or $160 repacking 10 on the weekend instead of playing games or watching Netflix. For those who are a bit thrifty and like to tinker I can't say it's a bad idea.
I do this all the time & use a soldering iron , high heat setting & a quick dab to reduce heat transfer into the battery , they've never been a problem
I soldered 2 cells using a shitty iron, they work fine, it is def. possible but... Let's keep this as secret knowledge. Someone might have a more susceptible cell, they could get the solder between + and - parts, people are dumb and many bad things can happen so it's best to say not to do it. I definitely won't redo that process.
Nice. You show a properly done repair of something that's not ordinarily repairable. I thought about doing the same fror my old makita battery, but I ended up getting an after-market battery with Samsung cells, which costs about the same as just buying the cells. But if you can source good high-drain used cells, that makes it worthwhile to do this repair, provided you already have a spot-welder, which is the main challenge.
I have done a similar repair to a B&D Dustbuster mini-vacuum, and I bought 4 high-drain cells, and replaced them in the battery pack. I found the $30 paid for cells barely made it worthwhile, compared with a new $50 vacuum. When faced with another such repair, I decided to toss the Dustbuster in the rubbish, and instead buy a Makita mini vacuum, and use my existing Makita battery to run the vacuum. Interestingly, the Dustbuster cells were good, and the BMS had failed, refusing to charge it.
Now I'm convinced that the Makita battery is a massively useful thing, which is worth repairing.
Sweet build. Well done.
I would have re-wrapped those cells. Perhaps rotating them so the torn sections of the wrap are only touching the plastic divider is okay, but I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that.
You never had an issue at all 🤣🤣
Great video. Many thanks from Southampton, UK
What a super informative and to the point video
I'm really surprised that the BMS only monitors one extra wire instead of all 3... Seems dangerous.
Also Make sure to only put batteries in parallel if they are within amor 0.2v of each other. Otherwise you get huge amounts of current moving between them which could either explode the battery or shorten its life.
for sure the bms monitors the pack voltage as well. the lxt platform does not allow for deep discharge and this is controlled both on battery level and the tool level. the tool will give a little sign of power reduction and then shortly it will completely stop. it will not crawl to stop, discharging the pack to unhealthy levels.
i'm not a specialist in electronics but i think they can spot easily faults by knowing both full voltage and 4 out of 10 voltage. So they can calculate the other 6 cells voltage. It's a rougher estimate but enough to detect single bad cells and not have extra wires and more complex bms.
Makita is famous for using only of the cells (or 2 here) to feed the BMS, effectively wearing the cell unevenly, and disbalancing in general, esp. with longer dormant time. It's probably one of the worst BMS I've seen - virtually all ICs nowadays incl. monitoring on each cell.
@@hhcosminnet this particular pack cannot be controlled on the battery level, it'd require at least 2 (likely 4) very beefy MOSFETS.
I notice that one of your batt had a lower voltage, it' probably better to equalize them before mounting the pack
The charger does that itself
The bms will balance the cells when the pack is fully charged.
@@randybobandy9828 - The BMS WILL NOT balance anything. That Makita pack doesn't have BMS that balances (most power tools do NOT have balancing). In fact this Makita pack doesn't even monitor the individual cell voltages.... watch the video before commenting!
@@randybobandy9828 it would need more balance leads. It has 1 sense wire.
@@johncoops6897 what? I have rebuilt a dozen ryobi packs and they have bms in them. Each cell has a balance lead.
I love watching videos like this. you do very well
Cool upgrade. Oops, it is not upgrade but changing the bad batteries.
The problem is, most people don't have a spot welder!
Is it possible to install a more high amp battery when replacing the dead cells?
Yes, it is possible, but it must be rated at least for 20 A of continuous current.
Yes he did exactly that in this video. The cells in the original pack where 3ah(2 1.5ah cells in parallel) he replaced them with 5.2ah(2 2.6ah cells). Almost doubling his ah.
Genius. Keep em comming bro.
Very nice and clean explanation, thank you!
Not sure there is any saving going on if you have to buy a spot welder just to be able to repack your battery. You have got to repack an awful lot of batteries to cover the €150 cost of the welder!
There are quite a few around at £30 ish that are quite good these days.
I was thinking that. Not sure I would want to be messing with Li batts hope he had a bucket of sand handy.
Plus the cost of the nickel strip and your time. Your cost savings will start kick in by your third or fourth battery.
People have been known to use the spot welder more than once, for other battery packs for example. Each time you use the tool the base cost seems to diminish.
When both lights on the Makita charger come on, it's not indicating a broken battery, it's showing that it's almost done charging. When both lights *flash* , that is indicating a broken battery.
I was about to make this comment, this is true 👍
Man that was a beautiful job thank you very much from 🇬🇧 uk 👌🏼
You can solder them if a flap is still attached. Use a very hot iron, lots of flux and rough up the surface and *quickly* solder it. Do not loiter around with the iron. 1-2sec max. The cell has enough thermal capacity so it wont heat up enough to get damaged. It is still risky and spot welding is the better alternative.
bro u got me to laugh with that cow ad haha
My understanding is that if your BMS does not support cell voltage equalization it is quite important to equalize individual cells before putting them into such a system. You are here running the risk of overcharging a battery causing a fire as the BMS in theory probably only sees the total voltage, but not the voltage of the one already fully charged cell for example.
Yes, i was thinking the same thing. Just bought a broken bosch battery and it was still charging the Battery but two cells of the 5s2p configuration were at 2,85V and the rest highly charged with 4,23V. Bosch usually only charges to 4.1V per cell pack. You should defiantly match the cells and not just trow them in. Could get dangerous that way. It's probably more dangerous than soldiering the cells in my point of view, even though I spotweld.
so if you just drill a few hundred holes like in the vid would this drain the batteries to a more equal voltage of the individual cells before charging, thanks.
@@eddy3314 not really. The thing is, that the batteries have similar capacity and if you charge them they will all rise in the voltage but the board connected to the batteries does not balance the individual cells. Meaning the will just cycle in the voltages the had between charging and discharging. In many batteries they have bms boards which will balance on a full charge meaning they will all have the same voltage but not in the tool batteries. Maybe in some but not in this one. So you need to balance them individually by yourself. I connect one at the time and charge them so they all end up having the same voltage and then they should cycle in the same voltage range. However if one battery is way lower in the capacity it will drain faster meaning the voltage drops quicker and you have balance them again over time or you could replace the bad cells. That's how I do it and it works for me since a long time. No need to always buy new batteries but don't assume that the manufacturer always has a balancing process. They simply sell more batteries that way and make more money, which is very unfortunate I think
@@jannisalexander1 Thankyou for taking the time to explain, that clears thing up . Have a good day.
@@eddy3314 no worries mate 😊
THIS!
You sir are a life saver!
Thanks for share your important technique.
Remember to balance or charge cells before putting them into pack as bms doesn't have balance function. And even if it has, it would still take quite long to balance cells. It's also safer to work with them when cells are discharged.
To me it looked like like they were somehow balanced in the end but you just didn't mention it clearly enough.
Nice video though 👍
Very professional expert
Very professional expert
Very professional expert
Very professional expert
there was no issue with the battery. the charger lights both green and red when the battery reaches 80%. if the battery is faulty then the red light would flash.
so..... how exactly did you get kWeld for $16?
Only 167 euros, that cheap bruh! Just mail 'em to ur dude schematix!
Where was that said?
@@0420Junket look @0:20
@@cthulpiss he must mean the cost of batteries I am guessing
You have to invest in tools to be able to repair and work on things.
very good vid, clean, clear and to the point, thank you
the charger was displaying 80% or more charge state, not faulty battery. the 2 lights will flash if it's faulty. since your cells were at 4 volts and nominal cell rating is 4.2 then they were indeed at 80%+ charge as indicated by the charger. other than that it was a good repack
Realistically most people will not buy a spot welder just for this job .... Soldering is perfectly fine , but a high power iron is best .. I've soldered over a thousand 18650's no damage and they NEVER catch fire or explode ... If you're going to do this it's sensible to by NEW 3500mAHr cells sony or panasonic
Realistically speaking most people don't have clue what they are doing, including the author of this video, and you too. These are high drain cells, that continuously deliver 30 A. And the battery has 2 parallel lines, which means it easily delivers 60 A continuously. Peak current is even higher. For example, cordless rotary hammers easily draw more than 1000 W of power.
And because of all this high current the original tabs are made of Nickel plated Copper and are 0.25 mm thick. The larger tabs, that cover 4 cells, are approximately 40 mm x 40 mm in size. And you have to make 4 solder joints on these. With each consecutive solder joint made, it increases the thermal mass and hence the heat loss... Even 200 W soldering iron doesn't help, the battery overheats and the heatshrink melts...
Ordinary soldering irons are useless here, resistance soldering may or may not help. Google it, see what it is. Than there is no DIY spot welder that can weld thick Copper...
Now compare that, to your usual tiny-winy tabs you use - 0.1 mm thick and 8 mm wide Pure Nickel strip... Yes, these are easy to solder, but they glow red under 60 A of current. So you have no idea how wrong you are... Since Copper is around 4 times more conductive than Nickel, you will need 1 mm of Pure Nickel to replace 0.25 mm of Nickel plated Copper. Try and solder this too...
A picture is worth 1000 words, and here is what happens with a thin non Copper tabs from China under 60 A load:
i.imgur.com/BaohgD4.jpg
www.78294.ru/_fr/3/7115813.jpg
So, you say "NEVER catch fire or explode"?
Trust me, it will, definitely - sooner, or later...
It gets red hot after all...
@@2L40K can you spot weld copper tabs diy or you need a more expensive spot welder.
@@EdgeMasterPro K-Weld is the best DIY spot welder and it can not do it. That's because copper requires at least 10000 to 15000 A of current, while K-Weld can deliver 2000 A max. Cheapest commercial welder ( czcams.com/video/tqhJyy2hUdw/video.html ) is around $25000 new. Used may be less, but still not as cheap as K-Weld.
But there is the "Copper/nickel sandwich" method. Just google it. There is a lot of discussion on the Endless Sphere, for example.
Here you have 0.1 mm copper and 0.2, 0.15, 0.1 mm nickel:
i.imgur.com/TAO8i1E.jpg
The bottom 0.1 mm nickel is rather weak, but the other two are pretty strong. And they are equivalent in conductivity to 0.55 mm and 0.60 mm of pure nickel respectively.
Yes solder is fine IF you have experience and are using a powerful iron. I would never recommend it to other because most people don't have that skill. You will lose a little capacity from heating the cells up but not much.
Also no to the 3500mah panasonic cells. They do not have the power output(amps) required for a power tool. There isn't a 3500mah cell in the market powerful enough for a power tool battery pack. You need 20amps+ and 3500mah cells are 6-10amp depending on brand and model. Imo the best capacity cell with enough power for a tool are sony vtc6 cells. They are rated at 3000mah and output 25amps. A perfect balanced cell.
Hated the quiet “music”in the background. Great content.
Sound fine by me
A marvelous video full of useful information. Thanks for effort.
Nice and clean, thank you!
The BMS is actually in the makita charger. Like most of the power tool chargers. Learned it the hard way, broke a few batteries from a makita batterypack while charging it via a solar charge controler...
Really it's like Makita split up the BMS into 2 components. One in the battery that in my case measures cell voltage, temperature & has must also feature some form of memory storage for the dreaded "bricked battery" error.
Which type of cells you get from makita packs? Sony vtc5?
Sorry but for price of the Makita batteries and chargers that bms looking crappy. Proper bms monitoring each cell not half and half the pack. Also in video its make few mistakes.