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Planning the Harley Flathead Engine
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- čas přidán 17. 08. 2024
- We're at it again! We'll get this Big Flathead 80 engine built and ready for the "Project Bike." Old technology, but , it was built over eighty years ago. Come along as I plan this out.
Mike, I don't think I ever watched any of your videos and not learned something. What a gift finding your channel.
And, what a wonderful compliment. Thank You.
Mike, don't worry about the interruptions; we all know they are going to happen. We're grateful that you're out there, and showing all of us what you're up to. Man, I love this stuff!
Thank You. Me too.
That puppy gonna "pull like a freight train".
Here's hopin'
I built a 45 flathead in 85,& relieved the cylinders dropping the compression, so I switched from composite head gaskets for aluminum heads to the thinner copper head gaskets for iron heads,& it was still running in 2016 when I sold it. Folks told me that I couldn't run aluminum heads with the stamped copper gaskets, but I did. I also bored my own cylinders in my home garage with an Ammaco model 500 adjustable hone. Ah the good old days...
You bet. We made do and took our time. Flatheads were good industrial strength machines. I knew a guy who kept them running in the military during WWII overseas. The stories he told me were awesome. Like Teddy Roosevelt said, "Do what you can, where you're at, with what you got."
favourite beverage, favourite chair now fingers X'd life doesn't get too much in the way of this build.
It'll take a while, but it WILL happen.
I’m sure your patient and quiet approach to bringing a little more pop in that old tractor is going to achieve a wonderful bike to ride. I love the lessons. Keep on schooling us. 👍
Thank You. And, of course.
I have been keeping an eye out for another video on the flathead.. It was better than ever. I'll bet that even the experts enjoyed it.
The experts might have done better, but I tried.
Always love stopping by the garage have a blessed week my friend.
Thanks, you too!
Awesome to hear you mention Truett and Osbourne. I am from the Wichita area and have enjoyed the bikes drags they have sponsored for years.
Cool. I've done business with them for many years, and they've been an absolute pleasure.
It's nice to hear another old timer talk about old bikes.
Thank You
You said something very important… about your “machinist”… we need those folks to make these bikes happen… even us shade tree mechanics NEED a good machinist as we simply don’t have the skill or knowledge or equipment to do these projects on our own… and it’s ok to lean on someone else for assistance… to make our dreams come true! Thanx Mike!! YOU ROCK!! 👍👍
Thank You. Well said. I'm a mechanic, not a machinist, not a welder. I can do certain operations because I've done them a lot. Then there are some that I leave to the people who specialize in those things. And those relationships are priceless.
I can’t begin to tell you how much I enjoy your videos Thanks to you and your camera man keep them coming
Thanks for watching
🙂
Gonna be coolest flathead on youtube.
Thank You
Hey brother. Plans are meant to simply not go according to plan. Sometimes we gotta put the beans on the back burner because cookin a steak may be in order. I admire your positive attitude In all things brother. I am so stoked to see what you put together here.
Thank You
How about a video explaining your timeline. Acquiring knowledge, tools, bikes etc. I really enjoy your videos because I always take knowledge from it. I'm 67. Started playing with Harleys in 77. The day at least I don't learn it will be time for yard sales. LOL. Keep up the great videos.
I tell bits and pieces from time to time. But it's not about me, it's about the bikes.
Very interesting video. I never worked on a flathead. Just rode old three wheelers. Thank you for explaining the engine.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for the education Mike. I enjoy all your videos and appreciate your shared wisdom on these old bikes.
More to come! Thank You.
Looking good Mike
Thank You
One of my favorite episodes you've done
Cool. Thank You
Mike, thanks again for the valuable information.
Our pleasure!
Hoped up motor is the only way to go!
'fraid so.
Ty Mike learning a lot looking forward to your project. Kenny
Thank You
I'm sure this will be an awesome powerplant...😎 Glad you're back on this build!
Me too. Thank You
glad to see your BTSV back in the news again! My favorite HD Motor(engine) hands down! Built a few myself. The 84" is a real sweet spot, I've built several with T&O and the standard vtwin 80 pistons. This gives just a slight amount of popup, which helps performance. The increase in oil is a good choice for sure. Lots of avenues to explore in building 80's vis a vis heads, pumps, cylinders, etc.Love the polished aluminum on your motor, that's class. Have fun!! Dick Linn aka "Frankenstein"
Thank You
This is fun! You are fun! Keep having fun! You're a special man. 4 cams!? Who knew? Not I! Let's discuss stroke-Increase the stroke. :) more is 👍. Hope you're having a blast dear Mike!
Thank You and You to, Charlotte.
Glad to see you again love you sharing your work Gods blessings for you Sir keep up the great work Sir
Thank You. Always wishing you the best.
I'm currently piecing together a 46 knuckle motor and using 80" flathead flywheels. It's great seeing your breakdowns and gives me some motivation!
That is awesome! Be sure and do all your research. The diameter of those wheels becomes super critical in relation to the scraper plates in that application. You probably knew that, but if not, be sure and get it checked out. You're gonna have something superb when you're done.
A very interesting project,I will be happy to watch it.You have a lot of interesting ideas,I'm glad that I'm watching your channel.
I'm glad to hear it and glad to see you show up. Thank You
A beautiful engine Mike, thanks for the info. 😃👍
Glad you enjoyed it.
Hello. That was very interesting lesson on the "flathead" 👍. Nice to see something else beside Olympic games in Tokyo. Kjell Blomstrand"the swede"🇸🇪
Thank You
Thanks Mike, I didn't know what relieved meant. Keep up the good work!
Cool. Thank You.
Very kool Mike, I will be following this!!
Thank You
Man I love your pod. It's like hanging out with your buddy's dad that doesn't mind teaching you things that are awesome. 80 cubes of flat head goodness. I'm going thru a 97 evo. Keep up the good work Sir. Mike you rock.
Glad you enjoy it!
Awesome mike love your plans cant wait change is good
Thank You
When I got my first Harley 1200 Sportster back in 95' I met a few old-school Harley guys that talked about some of the exact things you were describing about stroker motors and such. I found it very interesting then and now you have re-sparked those memories which I thank you for Mike, My 1999 the FXSTC last year 1340 Evo Motor has some new things I'll be doing to it just because it should be a lot of fun doing. Thanks for all the great videos you've posted. { Keep the shiny side up }
That's great. Thank you and you too.
Really enjoyed that video, I learned more from you in 12 minutes than a couple of hours someone else trying to explain how a flathead works and tactics for hopping it up. Thank you!
Glad you liked it.
Thanks Mike and Mike for explaining in a way we all could understand how the internals work together. You would a great shop teacher Mike. Thank you! 👍 🇨🇦
Thank you. But the school system just didn't have much love for this teenage "biker/hotrodder." How about we all just appreciate each other?
@@pacificmike9501
Yes agreed sir! ☮ 🇨🇦
Flatties are hard to build because every hot rodder stole the flywheels to make Knucks, Pans and Shovels go fast!!! Esthetically speaking , my favorite motor!!!
Yah. That's why I had it polished years ago. Yep, those flywheels got used (4 9/32" stock stroke).
Very interesting ! Thanks Mike.
Glad you enjoyed it
HOWDY Mike,
Fascinating explanation of the FLAT-HEAD "engine"
Thanks
COOP
...............................................
Glad you liked it!
Can't wait to see the build. Thanks.
You and me both!
Thank you
You're welcome
That's pretty polished !! That's exactly what I would start with. Looking forward to the build !
Thank You
Thanks Mike that was a great insight into the big flathead . Cheers Richie UK
Thank You
Hi mike enjoyed your vidio like always. Thanks from Mt.Carroll Illinois.
Thank You
She's going to be a beautiful motor. Can't wait to watch this build continue taking shape.
Me too. First things first though.
Thank you for sharing. Fantastic review and some really nice-looking engine components.
Glad you enjoyed it
Side valve engine we call them but I think flathead sounds better great video Mike🇬🇧👍👍
Flathead, Side valve, L head. I had to add that. Thank You.
very well explained .....you da GURU !
Wow. Thank You
Love it. I so want to try and assemble an engine. Havent gotten the courage yet
A lot of stuff to think about. You do what you can and you have what you can't do done by someone who can. Most people don't do it all. Most people don't have all of the necessary equipment. There are a few that do. They're the ones you have do what you can't.
Thanks Mike for the great information and explained in a way even I can understand. Sure this will turn out great.
Thank You
Can't wait! Good on you.
Thank You. It's gonna take a while.
Run the vid at 1.25 and Pacific Mike sounds like Mike Rowe.
Okay
Thanks Mike.
Thank You
Thanks professor Mike! Enjoyed the lesson. I learned a lot on this one. Didn't know it had two oil pumps. My Super Vee motor has two oil pumps also. The build on it is slow too due to life. Keep up the great work, and I'll see you on the road some day.
Thank You. I'll look forward to it.
Good stuff Mike. Really enjoying your videos. Got a little shop of my own that got started late in life and I'm learning tons of stuff from you. Keep up the good work. You're a good mentor brother. Looking forward to next video whatever it may be.
Thank You
Will be good to see that motor working! Thanks for the video!
You bet
Love ya videos Mike, cheers mate. Keep up the great work 👍
🏍💨💨💨💨💨
Thank You.
That was really interesting on how they increase the stroke on that flywheel. Sorry you lost your friend a few years back. The old guys had so much knowledge. Did you know or hear of Ron Trock? I could listen to him for hours. He took a ton of knowledge with him when he passed. Anyway, great video.
I never had the pleasure of meeting him, but we all used his products and all thought of him as one of the "Greats."
At last; the old flathead? Good common sense and lots of grunt.
Those are awesome characteristics. You bet. Now, if I can get caught up on everything else, I can build it.
“Hopped up motors are more fun”, ha ha, like you, ha ha 😂 sound like your hopped up too, On Life. 👍 Keep up the good work 👍
Thanks, you too!
'The time has come', the Master said, 'to torque of many things' . . .
'of longer rods with bigger blobs & fitting them with rings'.
Rolled pig iron stores their motion, fly capacitance of torque,
sends grunt to spinning clutch plates, as they bite down on the cork.
A thousand well timed levers, their radii assuaged,
by pushing around their neighbours, & others so engaged.
As they spin in low stressed harmony, sat trundling in their lubes,
they all prove again, that for low down power, you really can't beat 'cubes'.
(Actually, a couple of pounds boost from a tastefully clutched-in blower will also straighten out one's pubes. Y'all : )
And, once more, The Dude Does it! I so enjoy your writing. Thank You
🙂
@@cameramanmike2072 - Drag him over Mike, I'll make fresh tea : )
This is going to be great !
Thank You
I guess stroking a flathead is the only significant way of getting more power with such low compression 👍
No, there's always more. Porting, relieving, camming, bigger valves, ignition, carburetion.
What a great educational video on the Flathead 80 engine. It seems that in someways the Flathead engine is more complex than todays modern engines. Who in the world makes a high-performance oil pump for a Flathead, or are they the existing pump just modified? Here in Florida you don't see many Flatheads, or Panheads on the road anymore. Thanks Mike and looking forward to more great videos on the Flathead build.
Thank You. I believe V-Twin carries that pump for W and U models.
Dude, grind down the casting marks in the exhaust side with a harbor freight Dremel. Take the casting off the wide side of the intake, and measure on a Dyno.
That's right.
"...Talking to a lot of guys older than me . " You're lucky you know guys older than you :)
So are they. Pretty funny, huh?
Mike, Tatro Machine in San Diego CA. He knows flatheads. In fact he has quite a few world records on a flathead.
Yes he does.
@@pacificmike9501 I was thinking he could help you with your flathead?
Great video mike love them all very inspiring to build an older bike I’d definitely like to build a knuckle. Right now I’m running a 11 dyna but definitely would like an older project
Go for it!
Good evening Mike . How are you ?
Good. And you?
I am well , thank you . Glad to see a flathead project.
Flatheads indeed did have the longest stroke. The K Series model in '54 to '56 had the longest at 4 and 9/16" from the factory. The same conundrum. You can't make a lot of horsepower from stroking you make more torque which makes a bike fun to ride but piston speed is your enemy. Horsepower is an element of time and the faster you spin the engine, the more horsepower you can make. That's why Harley came out with the Sportster after the KH, Overhead valves and back to a 3 13/16" stroke. Ran a lot higher compression which raised the torque and shorter stroke to spin the engine faster. Great video and this info is more for your subscribers than you because you know all this.
It's great for me to go back and visit the old stuff. I''m getting to live and relive it. That was a superb bit of writing you just sent in. Thank You. By the way, about all I care about is more torque and taller gears. Nothing like a real road bike.
@@pacificmike9501 I am all about a long stroke and low end torque also. The girls just seem to love it. Just sayin'.
Love it
Cool. Me too.
Fascinating things you explain to us as you go along, I like that a lot and appreciate all of it.
You spoke of potentially putting a magneto on this puppy, in curious and wonder if you have a preference of magneto over electronic ignition or if you think one performs better than the other? I run electronic ignition on my '75 FXE shovel, but I've considered going magneto just to change it up more old school and eliminate the battery and excess wiring.
Do you have any words of wisdom for a guy with little understanding of this stuff?
Can't wait for the next one, man.
Keep it up!
Louis
Magnetos are the old way of doing it. I'll probably do it for fun. Not the easy or inexpensive way to go, but I have one.
Thanks again for another educational video have you ever stroked a twin cam if so would love to see a video of it sometime Thanks again Mike
Yes, you just change the whole flywheel assembly for a longer stroke. However, on the Twin Cams, I send the whole assembly out for balancing and welding that I have to farm out.
Mike,to get more flow of fuel to the piston ....could you also shave the intake exhaust side more than just the edge you showed and set the valves deeper..with shorter valve shaft lenght?.....or does that really screw up the balance?
You can have more flow or more compression. You don't get both. So, you get "a little" of both.
Hey Mike, a few weeks ago i had a bit of a talk with the owner of a local shop here in rural japan. So as we talked about old Harleys and how expensive it is to buy them or get parts for them he pointed to an old bike in his front window of the small showroom he has. It was in no running shape and more of a decorational piece and i saw it before he mentioned it. It was a Flathead, well at least i thought it was one after all i know how the engine looks like and with the hardtail frame and everything. But on further inspection the Tank said something a bit different, Rikuo or RQ how the brand was nicknamed by him. I was a bit perplexed and he told me how they actually built Bikes in license for Harley Davidson before and after the war and while harley wanted them to build Knuckleheads at some point they declined and build those Flathead Motorcycles all the way into the early 1960s. They updated the sheet metal and even updated the forks to the Teleglide on the 750 models later on.
I am still totally fascinated by this part of Harley Davidson History. Have you ever heard of it or seen one of those bikes, those are really pretty machines but they are getting more and more rear and as many Japanese people, even in rural areas dont have garages the Rusty enemy gets a hold on them.
Ps: i enjoy this build series very very much, it is juat beautiful to see all those pieces coming together 😁👍
I am aware of Rikuo as a brand and basically a "Japanese manufactured" motorcycle. I've seen pictures of those bikes over the years but don't know many of the particulars. I always thought that they are an "almost identical" version of a "U.S. Military" forty-five (750). That's fun stuff. I don't know how many were produced. I do remember a red one that used to show up in magazines. Thank You.
@@pacificmike9501 yes i think they produced a lot over That timespan but many are lost to Mother Nature by now. After I looked them up a bit more I saw that they also produced the bigger one, was it 1200cc/74cui. By the way, thank you very much for your answer, it is very nice of you to go through so many comments and replying to all of them. Please keep up the wonderful work (BTW, that also includes the awesome camera man)
Thank You. We try. And, I answer as many as I can.
hey mike, nice flathead, got a question? if you increase by say .500 " , when it comes to TDC, it will be .500" above deck height, ..do you have custom made pistons that have higher wrist pin holes?
just curious, I never got involved with a stroker. thanks.🙂
It depends on what's available. I'm not a big fan of "stroker plates" and having pistons made is really not out of the question.
cool stuff :)
Thank You.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with calling it a motor. It's a motorcyle, not an enginecycle. It's the department of motor vehicles, etc. etc. Motor is just the broader of the 2 terms, while engine is the more specific.
Well said. Just trying to please the "wordsmiths" out there.
Mike --- what is the process by which you get the cylinder heads & timing cover so polished?
Cheers tim from downunder
I had this all polished by a professional "metal polishing shop" several years ago. I doubt I could have done it as well myself. I've polished a lot of aluminum by hand. These are big pieces and I was pleased with what they did.
So do you index your spark plugs,by that I mean the open side or gap opens directly into the combustion chamber thereby giving a better burn.
Sometimes I do. However, not very often. On my Shovelhead, dual sparkplugs seems to do the trick. I tried it, but it didn't seem to phase it.
Mike, if you want to increase compression on that 80 do you mill the cap down or change piston ...or both?
Either or both. But, you better be careful or no room for flow.
Changing the stroke will raise the compression ratio a little too.
Are you considering increasing the combustion area in the heads Mike? I have a friend who relieved his out a fair amount and it's made his 80CuI flatty very interesting.
It's called "flow." We'll see.
@@pacificmike9501 My apologies. He took them out to 125cc or something of the like. Very preppy, he's also stroked his similar to what you're doing!
Hey mike are you able to answer some questions. I seen you replied to the questions I asked about my 06 chopper
If I can, of course.
So it’s a 103cc evo twin cam. Delkron case 650 lift cams about 6200 miles on it. And every time I ride the next morning there is oil under the bike.
I'm afraid you gotta look and see where it's coming from. Wipe it off so you can see where it's coming from when it's clean. Look at the highest point there's oil on it at the most forward location. Then, we'll talk about it.
By "later model" crank pin do you mean an OHV model pin (knuck?)? Do you then have to use that OHV rod set to keep your crown/deck/squish relationship conforming with reality (lol)?
Yes it is an overhead crank pin, but early knuckle used a step pin. I think I'll use one from the eighties.You just use the flywheels that have been stroked and then deal with the piston height. Use your existing rods, maybe stock pistons and "stroker plates" under the cylinders. These are things the builder picks and chooses.
@@pacificmike9501 ahhh, completely clear now! Thanks for the detailed concise reply. As always, you and "the crew" provide the BEST tech content related to the care, feeding, and custom options for these Milwaukee beasts. Still my fave hog channel!
Just a couple of questions, Mike. First one is what is your vintage? Second, it's interesting to see that it looks like the valves are about the same size! In later 'motors', the intake was always larger than the exhaust. My guess is that was because later on, they were able to utilize a higher compression?
That's all part of it. Exhaust always outflows exhaust. Remember this motor was designed purely as a "workhorse." High compression blocks flow. This thing was just intended to work hard. Massive low end torque. It is a 1940.
i have a 62 Mexican ex cop FL i want to semi restore but make ridable on modern fuel . can you recomend any good resorses . love your chanel thanks
I run my Pan on 91 octane gasoline. It still has its original "cast in" bronze valve seats. I run single points ignitions on Panheads. I don't care what they came with. And I set them up with Linkert M74B carburetors. Cams and pistons and exhaust pipes are "personal choices. The end. Thank You.
Hi Mike, I enjoy your videos. I have a question regarding my WLA HD- When I install the generator, do I need to do it with the timing cover off so I can check the clearance (some people call it lash I think) between the generator pinion and the drive pinion in the c/case? There was a paper "washer/packing/spacer" between the generator and the curved housing it sits in in the c/cases.
The drive gear on the generator and the "idler gear" in the crankcase should line up so the idler gear slides in and out easily when the generator is bolted in and strapped down. So, yes, that is the proper way to install a generator. It seems the last guy did it right. This is according to the HD service manual. It's the way I do it. It's a pain, but well worth it. I generally do it with the cam cover off and a nut on each of the two bolts that hold the generator on, so as to take up the distance to allow for the cover not being there. Then, strap it down and check it. Shim as necessary. Then reassemble the whole thing again. Long winded, but that is the proper way.
🦅🇺🇸🦅 Dude 🤠 🐴 iron horse 🇺🇸❤️🇺🇸‼️
Thank You.
Love your videos. My question is about making the stroke longer do you get a piston with a relocated wrist pin to prevent piston from hitting the head? Or shorter rods? Are their limits to how low into the cylinder the piston can go?
Yes, changing the dimensions of the piston, is the way to go. If the piston has a lower dome, problem solved. Sometimes, depending on the design of the motor, a different pin location is in order. Sometimes the piston skirt has to be shorter to keep from hitting the flywheels. It all depends on the design of the engine and how extreme you want to build.
@@pacificmike9501Thanks for the reply. I am 77 and mechanic always, car dealers, airplanes, tractors, and worked in machine shop when in high school. Every time I made a modification to an engine it would require something I had not planned on.
Yes, it is a sickness.
When somebody gets all technical about Motor vs Engine, just ask them do they ride a MOTORcycle or an ENGINEcycle... That'll shut 'em up! :)
We"re all just havin' fun. But, you're right.
How many of those blue shirts do you have? And how did you get my old drill press?
Both good questions. Don't have an answer for either one.
👍🖖
Thank You
PRAISE JESUS NAME ABOVE ALL MIKE'S GARAGE HD BUILDING
Thank You and the best to you.
mike do you know tatro in san diego? he builds flathead race engines
I am familiar with him, but don't know him personally.
Hows your friends evo running? Was it worth it?
Awesome. You bet.
Hello Mike, where is the event going on this weekend?
I think you're looking at an old video.
You are probably right ✅️
Contact tatro machine in San Diego.
Thank You
@@pacificmike9501 he is a CZcamsr also and works on old bikes. He says 1957 is the last year they made a real Harley Davidson. Haha. He is a master mechanic he does it ALL.
Mike you can't go any faster hell you already have enough wind shear going on up top any faster and you can forget buying anymore shampoo. Keep your feet on the pegs and your wheels on the ground bro .
Thank You
@@pacificmike9501 make sure you got you cap on when going out summer sun can be blistering
C'mon. We only discuss "cylinder" heads, not mine.
@@pacificmike9501 so are you saying your not running pn all 2 cylinders? Lol
Hope you're having a day full of laughs .
I am now. You too.