Baldur's Gate 3 STRONGEST SUBCLASS Tier List
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- Today I am ranking the Strongest Subclass in Baldur's Gate 3 on a tier list! There are a lot of really great classes in this game, and I wanted to rank them based on how effective they are at dealing damage alongside other things like their tankiness and crowd control. This is mostly based on how much offensive power that they have per turn. And some of these sub classes just outrank others in a lot of ways. I want to cover this topic and give my thoughts on what some of the strongest subclasses are in Baldur's Gate 3, as I make a ton of build guides and want to share my experience. BG3 is an incredible game, I love it.
Let me know what you would like to see next for Baldur's Gate 3 content / tier lists
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Glad to see Spore Druid getting love! Definitely my favorite class to play, and ridiculously strong early game. You can dual wield torches with shillelagh, boost your damage further with symbiotic entity, and use the most powerful early CC spell in Spike Growth. Offers a lot of chances for creativity too, like getting a heal every turn by dropping a potion on the ground and breaking it with Halo of Spores, the only reaction in the game usable on your turn. Best summoner and necromancer too. Just a lot of fun and can fill just about any role in the party.
They’re so tanky too! I love the haste spores from the spore keeper armor because you can apply it to everyone super easily!
Spore Druid is incredible.
I love multiclassing 6 levels of it and necromancer wizard. Necro gives healing from spells and double summons. Learn the danse macabre and you got a ton of summons.
Staff of cherished necromancy lets you cast circle of death endlessly and heal 18hp from it each time you eliminate a target. Crazyyy
I’m so glad I read this! I really prefer fun roleplay/theme builds over OP min/max. I love the Druid lore and there’s a lot of fun necromancer ways to play even early game options like the bitter divorce for necromancers. I have a sorc now I keep going between storm sorc/tempest clericand ice sorc this run but because of this I think I’m gonna try a spore Druid necromancer next because that just sounds like a blast
Give me an idea of a build. A friend of mine thinks is only strong in act 3
Swords bard is so busted lmao S tier damage S tier control S tier party face S tier utility.
That and the sorcerer are my two favorites by far! Charisma, huge damage and crowd control. So much fun
Sword bard with arcane acuity helmet and band of the mystic scoundrel is so good
Even being mainly melee sword bard was really good, great for roleplaying an Eilistraee follower too.
@@brian.phillips1985 sword bard is just straight up amazing at everything. I love bard 10 paladin 2 because you can smite with your flourishes. So crazy!
I know everyone is all about that cold/lightning damage builds for Sorcerers for that double damage when cold, but I have a spot in my heart for scorching ray fire builds. If you can get ethels hair for charisma and put your sorcerer at 17 charisma, boost it to 18, add 2 from ASI and wear the birthright and manage to get the +2 from the mirror of loss that gives you 24 Charisma, and take alert and elemental adapt fire? Markoheshkir and spellmight gloves? An upcasted level 5 Scorching Ray is now doing 77 + 12d6 + 6d8 damage. 25.8 average damage per ray, for 6 rays. That with metamagic you can cast twice in a turn. Anything that isn't strictly immune to fire is getting brutally nuked. I think people overestimate how common fire immunity is. Fire RESISTANCE is common, but immunity the only real problems are Raphael and the Red Dragon. Seriously if you ever get tired of ice/lightning sorcs, try a scorching ray build sometimes.
Scorching ray magic missile build are actually so fun. Throw in the artistry of war as well for extra damage and you got a consistent cover for first resistances/immunity
Scorching Ray are cool but I found myself always having to bring some Chain Lightning scrolls in act 3 just in case those fire immune enemies appear lol.
I think the reason druids get dumped on, specifically moon, is because 99% of the games progression systems are null while wildshaped. All that sweet gear you find, the powerful tadpole powers you acquire, or the powerful buff spells you learn. 99% of it is useless the second you transform, and that can quickly become very boring.
@@gigaburgerer yeah true there’s only a few items that persist. The armor of moonbasking gives that extra health which is nice. The only things that really persist in wildshape is initiative since it’s rolled at the start of combat, the strength potion from act 2, and some other random buffs but you’re right a lot of stuff just doesn’t persist in wildshape
@@JasonDunna Would be great if the Barkskin armor from act 2 worked in wildshape, or if there were just a few items scattered around the game. Armour of moonbasking is act 3, and its hard to not get burnt out before then after dozens of hours of not being excited for gear.
But honestly, I'd be happy if every wildshape had the same level of quality as Owlbear/myrimidons. Panther pounce being a dexterity saving throw that scales with your wisdom is pretty rough on a wildshape-focused build. It also doesnt trigger wildstrikes, so you will never be able to follow up your own pounce with a jugular strike.
Badger forms burrow is a flat DC 13 save, and that sucks. Its also a full action, unlike earth myrmidon who can do the same thing as a bonus action.
Bear form is just atrocious, in my opinion. Crap damage, nothing to do but attack with that base 2d4+4. Goading roar is useless because AI will already be incentivized to attack you and your 12 AC. Halsins bear form is much much better. His base claw damage is 2d6+5, and he gets the once-per-battle multiattack. I would really like the Tav polar bear to have these, so it doesnt feel so weak.
Just some minor changes to the other forms so you have a reason to not just press owlbear all the time since it has insane mobility, great aoe and single target damage options, light crowd control, great action economy, and immense health pool.
@@gigaburgerer Something fun to note is that barb rage persists when you wildshape. This eventually led to one of my favourite builds, THE OWLBEARBARIAN! 5/barbarian, 7/druid. The important thing is that you make sure you take 5 levels of barbarian before taking 5 levels in druid. If you do then wild strike will stack with extra attack, allowing you to have 3 attacks per turn. Unfortunately that means you can only get the Owlbear at lvl 11, but the regular bear form works great in the meantime. I took the wildheart barbarian sub so my Owlbear was resistant to almost all damage. Super tanky and dishes out good damage. Would recommend.
@@V1rtualFlod ya I'm aware of it. But it's clunky since you lose concentration (if you use concentration) and requires 2 turns to set up. Also, bear is one of the absolute worst wildshapes, imo. You're doing 2d4+4 damage, twice per turn, from character level 7 -> 9, where you'll do 3d4+4.
I'd certainly use wolf over bear but that's my own opinion.
Have you ever played abjuration wizard? I've beaten 4 honor modes and I've never seen anything like it, you can't die, its impossible, the day starts, you cast armor of agathys at the highest level you can, and all you do is trigger opportunity attacks and kill enemies, you have max arcane wards all the time so you just aren't taking damage while out damaging almost every class in the game, and you just put it in B tier without saying anything? So I'm really curious if you have played it and if yes to what extent, cause if the answer is yes then you either played it wrong or didn't like it so you didn't give it a try.
Also I don't see a world in which Sorc is comparable to swords bard at any level, but it is your favorite class, so I understand.
Other than that nice tier list, keep it up man!
Although it does take a bit of time to really come online, the Abjuration Wizard is very strong.
The ability to learn any scroll is so underrated! No wizard in S tier? Abjuration wizard is so good in honour mode. Arcane ward!
I think wizard got the short end of the stick since it was at the end and I was talking for 30 min. Wizard is a very defensive and utility based class so I didn’t feel right putting it up with the strength of a sorcerer in terms of the damage output. But overall the wizard is very good
Wizard is the OG spellcaster and the foundation for a super versatile party. Abjurer wizard is my personal favorite because of the boost in survivability compared to other wizards. BG3 version of arcane ward is riduculously more powerful than the tabletop version which mostly treats it like an extra set of temp HP that stacks on top of temp HP.
@@JasonDunna If someone decides to cheese Arcane Ward, it is extremely hard for enemies to punch through 12 stacks in one encounter, and since a Warlock dip can cast Mage Armor for free, you can start every fight with max ward stacks. It's especially stupid when you get Project Ward.
Especially since cantrip scrolls are a thing. Wizards can easily have every damage type
@@LunarEntity It also synergizes nicely with armor of agathys. I dont think it activates the cold damage when the ward is active but it lets you recover ward hit points when cast.
Mixing spore druid (7) and either gloom stalker ranger or hunter ranger (5) is a really funny combination.
Spore Druid is awesome with the extra necrotic damage! I haven’t tried it with gloomstalker yet so I’ll give that a try!
Thanks for acknowledging the OH monk. If you dump STR and abuse cloud/hill giant elixirs, this thing becomes simply grotesque, Oh and as an added bonus - there's tons of monk specific gear which means you don't have to weaken your other party members by sharing weapons/armor. If you're trying to do tactician or even honor mode - I definitely recommend adding one to your party.
I actually think open hand monk is the best single target damage. Monk 9 rogue thief 3 can obliterate anything in combat
My God mannn, I come from the weekend and there are pure gold tier lists from this great channel, niiice 🙌🙌🙏
Thanks so much Felipe I really appreciate the kind words! I hope you enjoy 🤝
Have a blessed day
crazy awesome how many classes are deserving of the S tier. larian did a great job fleshing out classes despite differing playstyles
Couldn’t agree more! They’re all so unique and fun to experiment with, there’s only a few classes that are just not great (arcane trickster rogue translates rough from tabletop) but even then you can beat the game with any class combination
I did Honor run with Oath of vengeance paladin/storm sorcerer-was a true hoot!
Shadowheart was Tempest Cleric, Gale was Tempest Cleric/wizard/Storm Sorcerer. Astarion was OH monk. Makes an honor run easy.
Yesssss that’s awesome!!! Love those classes. The tempest cleric wizard storm sorcerer is crazy with the tempest’s channel divinity on the wizard’s chain lightning. Huge damage
Abjuration can become nearly invincible if built right. Definitely at least A tier , but otherwise I think you nailed it
Most defensive class but lacks offensive power! I’ll do a best defensive subclass tier at some point and they are easily at the top
Recently I finally got a chance to play BG3 and finished my first run.
My team was Storm Sorcerer, Battlemaster Figher, Life Cleric, 4Thief/8Gloomstalker.
By the time I reached lvl 5 I decided to switch from balanced to tactician since the game became too easy but even then in act 3 the game still became too easy. The combos that Sorcerer brings with twin-haste as well as create water and ligthning spells were too strong.
With that experience, I'm not sure if I would recommend running too many strong builds within a single party.
With that being said, I did love my main Storm Sorcerer and I feel like the ability of bonus action flight is far too underestimated. It is just so cool to be able to do that starting from the very beginning.
Maybe because the game already been out for almost a year, I feel like most people (including this video) always talk about the builds from the perspective of level 12 (sometimes even with having perfect gear for it). But I feel whats far more important (especially as a guide to new players) is how a build would perform early on and how fun it is in each act and especially early game.
Getting a good/cool feature early on and having it for the entirety of the game is far better that whatever class has to offer late game.
(Gaining flight at level 11 is better than having bonus action fly at level one and playing with it entire game? WHAT!)
Yeah there are a lot of things to cover! The Draconic sorcerer gets the built in mage armor and extra health so it can have the survivability the storm sorc has too! I’m a huge fan of both. Really like call lightning if you don’t have a concentration up !
This list is very fair. I do think you should try giving Abjuration another go. It can kind of be complex, but when casting 6th level armour of agathys when subclassed, the class is pretty much invincible
Yeah you’re right I’ve experimented since then, and I just ranked it S tier for honor mode in my video yesterday. It’s really strong I just don’t enjoy the build that much
@@JasonDunna Yeah neither do I lol. It's very strong but not much room for creativity. Hope you don't mind the nitpick, the vast majority of what I've seen from you has been much more solid than a good majority of bg3 creators. Glad to hear back from you tho and keep up the good work
I was kinda expecting the evocation wizard to be s tier because of being a super reliable damage dealer by being a magic missile machine gun. Also, the ability to learn from scrolls is neat.
Yeah the evocation wizard is really powerful! Compared to sorcerer it does come a bit short in raw offensive strength. However adding a level of wizard to a sorcerer and learning globe of invulnerability, conjure elementals and artistry of war.. unstoppable !
@@JasonDunna Really wish there was a force damage draconic blood sorcerer. I would choose that over an evocation wizard.
I love the content.
My top 3 would be Draconic Sorcerer (first playthrough tactician/HM), Spore Druid (2nd playthrough HM) Swords Bard and Open hand monk as an honorable mention
Spore is amazing... You want a Necromancer... Spore Druid, You want a high-tier summoner.... Spore Druid, You want to add solid damage riders (1d6 to every attack) to Unarmed Monk/Dual wielding hand crossbow Bard.... Spore druid. (I can do 11 attacks a turn with a dual handcrossbow for + 11-66 per turn).... Do you want a decent tank with up to 48 temp HP + 2 wildhapes..... Spore Druid.
Hand Crossbow Swords Bard is IMO the best class in the game, because you can deal the most possible damage in a turn solo... I've only got to 11, but apparently you can get to 16 attacks a turn, You want CC... Bard, you want damage.... Bard, You want dialogue.... Bard
And Draconic Sorcerer is just crazy strong and fun. My only real issue with it is that its really all about the lightning/Cold damage (a lot of other amazing builds, but nothing comes close), on its own its not amazing. You really need to build a party around that one aspect, which I found to be a bit linear, where as the other two can slot into any party and any comp and still do their thing. For me it kinda turned Honor Mode into Standard Mode.
But man do I love the DC
I agree! Sorcerer is best caster, spore Druid is best summoner, great damage and crowd control from dryad’s spike growth. The sword bard however, is just the best class straight up.
Helmet of arcane acuity and arrow of many targets to stack +10 spell save DC. Then band of the mystic scoundrel upcasted command, hold person, confusion, or great invisibility. Soooo good.
Looking at the ranking is so fun, as a long time D&D player its so intresting to see how faithful the game is to original 5e but still enhancing some things for video game purposes.
5e in a video game format is really interesting! Movement and utility are a bit different in the game vs tabletop so it makes some classes a lot stronger
You show a lot of knowledge in this, my first time watching your content and won't be the last. I hope your build videos are direct and to the point, thank you.
Oh yeah my build guides are extremely to the point! I’ve never promoted anything in my videos and try to be as concise as possible!
Thanks for watching, happy to have you on board!
played a draconic bloodline sorcerer in one playthrough and then immediately started a new playthrough as a draconic bloodline sorcerer upon completion, its that good
I know mods are coming so realistically speaking that’s how every subclass will end up in bg3, but I really hope larian adds some more subclasses from D&D especially stuff like aberrant mind cause it’s so on theme and bladesinger and some other stuff just cause there’s so many fun subclasses that didn’t make it in
I know right? I am sure that mods being added to console will remedy this a bit at least
trickery domain is my favorite type of cleric, when you multiclass it into rogue it's hyper strong!
Trickery cleric's invoke duplicity giving you advantage for sneak attacks is awesome! If you take trickery cleric to level 12, you're better off playing a different cleric or multiclassing with something like rogue or gloomstalker!
@JasonDunna I have tried trickery/ thief/battlemaster as well! with knife of the undermountain king it was ripping stuff apart in darkness, but I feel there are better gear you can use with the eversight ring and darkness advantage if you're drow or invoke duplicity if you want to buff your allies advantage, or your spirit guardian plus bonus action dash for AOE or melt with multi attacks and use superiority die to trip enemies and get higher chances to crit. I'd love to see a build like this on your channel!
I like using 2 trick clerics with rogue multi class. Greater invisibility with one with shadows alongside other items means almost guaranteed 10 sneaks, idk if assassin applies, i usually use their cause ba. If it does it would be nuts and thematic. Imagine being stabbed from the front for crits and not knowing why.
My rogue invokes duplicity IF he fails to stealth somehow.
Of course dual crossbows for rogue are meta but that’s boring.
wizard is another great 1 level dip on any caster build, it lets you learn any spell you want through scrolls.
Totally true!! I actually made a build of a ice sorcerer + wizard last night doing that
I would put Life domain one tier higher just because of heavy armor. It lets you take advantage of some really powerful armor pieces aimed at paladins
Overall life cleric is like A tier, but in terms of strength the Tempest outclasses it big time. The healing is nice but the tempest's damage output is wild and makes it look less strong
Life domain definitely deserves an S tier rank. Best healer in the game. Heavy armor is great and I think their divine strike (radiant) damage is the best because radiant damage is rarely resisted.
Finally their domain spells are basically the cleric tax spells that most clerics have to prep for! By having all these essential spells always prepared this really frees up your choices for preparing spells.
My first character was a Beastmaster Ranger at launch. In playing DND irl, Ranger was always the class I stayed away from because I didn't like it mechanically, as opposed to thematically.
In Baldurs Gate however I decided to say "Screw it, let's choose Beastmaster cuz it's the worst and see how it goes". Oh boy. Took Speak with Animals as my first spell and from then on it was the most enjoyable video game playthrough I have had in years. The fact that the pets HP and attacks scale with your own growth is HUGE.
Like it cannot be understated how busted having additional bodies on the field to soak damage is. Furthermore, they made Killer arrows so abundant, that I just felt incredibly versatile in every situation. Loved this game so much!
Storm Sorcerer is secretly better than the Draconic Sorcerer. Getting Fly at 11 level is weak as you have it from Illithid powers already. Also Draconic Bloodline forces you to wear robes to get their bonus to AC.
You can go for Wood Half-Elf Storm Sorcerer 11/Tempest Cleric 1 and run around in full plate armor and with a shield and cast spells and when someone tries to hit you they get hit by Wrath of the Storm and if they in fact are able to hit you instead of missing they get hit by Storm's Fury after that. And if you have War Caster and they just try to run past you to get to someone with worse AC you just hit them with Shocking Grasp. You also get +5 (Sorcerer Level/2) to damage to all spells dealing lightning and thunder damage (all the spells you will pick and use anyway) while Draconic Sorcerer can get max to +7 but only to one element that means much less spells.
Now you can equip Armour of Persistence and Adamantine Shield or Ketheric's Shield or Viconia's Walking Fortress on top of your standard sorcerer items and be a sorcerer destroying wet targets with lightning spells and a tank in one.
And the best thing is you just pick 1 level of Tempest Cleric at level 2 and never worry again about it and just focus on Sorcerer for the rest of the game. Make Talos proud.
24:59 i think you may have forgot to clarify for those unaware. Pact of blade (level 5 i think?) extra attack stacks with martial extra attack. This is not a bug btw, the devs know and intend this. So getting three attacks is great. Of course a 5 level dip is hefty but for three attacks with great weapon master or sharpshooter ranger can do nutty amounts of dmg without long resting. Now add in haste and action surge? 9 attacks without dual wielding anything. 10 if so.
Yo that’s busted
Life Cleric is underrated in my opinion, but B tier is still solid. ABJURATION. I can see why it's B tier, but hear me out. Regular Wizard, but not squishy.
OH DUDE, in one of my games, the one with my mage/thief, (courtesy of your guide), only needs to roll a 16 to hit. I have two weapons, knife under the mountain king, and orin's blade, and I have the cape that reduces the number for crits, and i have the bow that does the same thing! It says the effect can stack, and I crit *all* the time with her! If I remember the names of the items i'll put them here but i cant remember for the life of me.
This tier list was based on strength and not overall utility, kinda a tricky tier list to make since I have to rank normally S or A classes lower since they don't contribute as much offense
Yooooo that's awesome I had the knife of the undermountain king but didn't think about it. I have an idea for a wizard build but I will need a bit more testing because it just doesn't have the oopmh I want it to yet
@@JasonDunna I definitely understand, man. Sometimes the build doesn't have that nice zing that brings it all together! You'll get there soon, no worries
Nature Domain Cleric only in C list? 🤨
Already at the early stages of the game you can use Spike Growth while a teammate casts Darkness and then sit back, with nothing else to do, while the enemies consume themselves on the thorns; further on Plant Growth associated with Hunger Of Hadar achieves the same result.. it's not like Shillelagh is its only feature.
Nature cleric is good but at higher levels it dips off. I realized I should have put it in Roleplay, because its not bad, but the other clerics are just a lot better damage output into the higher levels. I also think the druid does the job a bit better too, but the Nature cleric is a cool subclass for roleplay purposes
Did an honour mode run with Swords Bard Tav, OH Monk Astarion, Throwzerker Karlach and Life Cleric Shadowheart as support, and it was too easy by the end. There was nothing those 4 couldn't handle.
That’s unreal! I love sword bard and OH monk. So powerful
seems like you don't played enough with Wizard subclasses, i won't judge, it's too much things to talk about and tierlists are not 100% correct if made by just one person.
Divination Wizard is definitely S tier: you can long rest until you get good Portent Dices and manipulate your results in important checks (like guarante Sword of Astral Plane in act I with that invisible bear strategy, or overprepare against a strong boss), this is perfect for Honour Mode since technically you can't reload the game.
Abjuration Wizard is better than you think: it's one of the tankiest builds and have all the utility that a wizard has. Glyph of Warding, Counterspell and Globe of Invulnerability are all abjuration spells (also Banishment is kinda decent too if you have high spell save DC or the enemy doesn't have high charisma saving throw), so you restore your ward on casting these spells. This is the type of mage that you can stand in front of a boss, and take all hits as if was nothing.
People say that Necromancy Wizard is bad because the minions are bad (Conjure Elemental and Planar Ally are way better than any necromancy summons, they can't fly and you need a bunch of corpses every long rest, which is annoying). It only gets really good once you get that Staff and start spamming necromancy spells.
I put Divination A tier, but it definitely could go S! Spamming long rest to get good dice isn't something I enjoy doing, but on Honor mode S+
Abjuration wizard tank builds are pretty cool agreed! I made this tier list on strength / offense and while they are crazy defensive they don't have the damage output that other tanks have. But on a defense tier list they're S too
Necromancer 6/ Spore Druid 6 with both the fungal zombies and necro's double summons. Balthazar's circlet gives them resistance and you can do a team huddle upcasted Aid to make them tanky. Then you can learn conjure elemental and the deva spell as a wizard and have those too! Its a LOT of set up but the damage can be a lot of fun! Bonus points if you have the Danse Macabre, or the gloves that give summons resistance to everything but psychic
@@JasonDunna Yeah, Sorcerer and Cleric have more offensive power than Wizard. That's why Wizards need to focus more on disabling / incapacitating / utility spells than damage itself. High Spell Save DC does the magic here, it's so satisfying using spells and see all working (like using Mind Blast and getting all enemies stunned, Hold Person on multiple targets, etc). The most overpowered thing is when i am about to use Hold Monster on a boss like Raphael, Orin, and see that the chance is 100% (it's free real estate), then my party crushes a lot of critical strikes.
@@carlosleite7011 On Honor mode it definitely is powerful. The average player will find that the sorcerer and cleric are stronger for them so that's why I ranked them a tier higher, but I totally see your point of view! I like arcane acuity helm + band of the mystic scoundrel sword bard doing arrow of many targets to get +10 spell save DC then bonus action hold person! Hold Person is one of the best spells in the game by far, and if you can give target disadvantage on wisdom throws too its icing on the cake
Its free real estate hahahaha.
So I'm doing an Honor mode run of a full Fiend Pact of the Blade Warlock and I don't think it falls off at all at higher levels. At level 10 you can pick any damage type to gain resistance to it once per short rest (on a second playthrough when you know what type of damage each boss does going into the fight it's really good). At level 12 you get an invocation that lets you add your Charisma modifier to your pact weapon damage for a second time, and the temporary hit points you get for kills increase with each level, getting up to 20-25hp per kill at max level. While I'm sure there are Paladin or Fighter multiclass options that are stronger for whatever reasons, Fiend Warlock with Pact of the Blade is honestly a great subclass to crank all the way up to level 12.
Yeah you make some great points! In non-honor mode the warlock extra attack is so awesome on another class it’s hard to go full in on warlock. My first playthrough was Paladin 5 Warlock 7 with 3 attacks, fireball and wall of fire. It was a lot of fun for a first playthrough but yeah getting Lifedrinker is pretty cool. Just wish that necrotic damage was a little better
I went eldritch knight with lae zel during her origin on honor mode. Shield and blur plus haste from Gale made me untouchable
Eldritch knight is crazy strong in a number of builds. I love it, it had to go S tier
@@JasonDunna People sleep on how nice it is to have a self-sufficient frontliner in Honor.
My buddy and I are playing through together right now and he’s playing a spore Druid it’s literally so good. He gets temp hit points and has more hp than Karlach! Also it’s so funny to pull up somewhere with our party of 8
Spore Druid is seriously so powerful! One of my favourites in the game
I'm actually running a halfling Wild Magic sorcerer for my honor mode campaign. I don't think Wild Magic is the strongest of the three but it does have Tides of Chaos: Free advantage on any important conversation check or saving throw once per short rest, on a halfling that virtually cannot roll a Nat 1? It is so safe. Because of that I can deal with the occasionally annoying (and occasionally baller) wild magic surges during combat
Bro so much respect for running honor mode with wild magic!! As I say it’s still a sorcerer so very powerful class but the wild magic is soooo trippy to deal with hahahaha. Good on you that’s awesome
Wizards are still better than Sorcerers and Warlocks because they can get any of those spell scrolls you find and write them into their spell books and learn those spells.
Warlocks are great with Eldritch Blast and casting a leveled spell as a control or holding up counterspells per encounter.
Sorcerers are great because of metamagic allowing them to do some fun stuff but they still are limited with what spells they know. They are versatile in either getting back spell slots or getting back sorcery points.
When it comes right down to it, I'll take most any wizard over a sorcerer just so I can have a wide variety of spells in my arsenal.
“Wizards are better than sorcerers” kinda a wild take but the wizard utility is nice. You can also wear the int circlet and take a single level of wizard to take spells like globe of invulnerability, conjure elementals, the deva and artistry of war
Sorcerers can drop two chain lightnings in a turn which will out damage a wizard, which is why I put it above wizard in this strongest tier list. Not saying wizard is bad but the sorcerer will always out damage a wizard
Knowledge Domain, Arcane Trickster, Lore Bard, and Enchanter feel more like subclasses you pick simply for the roleplaying aspect. If you're playing on higher difficulty though, the other party members will have to pick up your slack!
Dude, I'm thinking about doing a tierlist myself for which classes I find the most fun? Or maybe the ones with the most roleplaying potential. You could make that tierlist actually! I still haven't revealed my voice and am still a little on the fence about it.
Role play classes are the coolest to beat the game as. I just love the medieval power fantasy so I play Sorcerer, Paladin or Bard mostly hahaha
Yes dude definitely make a tier list! Its a bit difficult to speak to an audience, but its worth it. I went to university for business and I did a lot of presentations but honestly doing CZcams has improved my public speaking skills a lot more. I totally get not wanting to do a voice reveal though. Maybe you could add text talking like you're skull kid from LoZ?? Could be cool if you're tech savvy
@@JasonDunna Ohhh dude, that's actually a good idea! I wanna make a tierlist, so maybe making my skullkid drawing into sort of a persona could be a great idea! I have no experience talking to an audience, and unfortunately I have a little stutter, which is unfortunate and only adds to why i dont voice reveal yet. But, that text thing sounds like a perfect solution!
Roleplay classes are my favourite as well! I liike the more enchant-y types, thus wizards and sorcerers etc are often my favourite!
@@MulderHiggins You could even just practice filming videos with no intent to upload. I did that when starting and it took pressure off the creative process.
Although these 30 minute videos I do are hard!! Theres 46 subclasses so its hard to rank everyone's favorite accordingly
Role play would be interesting though I will put thought into it and maybe it'll be next weekend's tier list release
@@JasonDunna Practice videos without uploading? alright, that sounds like a good idea. It'll be a while before I upload anything then, but ya know, it'll be a bit anyways. Thanks man! Your videos are great and the tierlist ones especially fun to watch
No way lore bard is a RP tier subclass
Feels like ancients paladin is seriously underrated, that level 1 aoe heal is amazing and they also get the aura that halves spell damage and some decent spell list
Yeah ancients Paladin is really good, just not as strong as vengeance and oathbreaker offensively! I totally see your position and overall I’d rank them S to A tier
I think trip attack is my favorite BM maneuver. Mixes really well with Great Weapon Master and is excellent if you can trip an enemy then reduce their speed to 0.
Swords Bard is amazing because it's for players who want to be a full caster, but also want to be a Battle Master Fighter.
I think people dump on druid because the two default druids you get, you get late in act 2. So by then, people kind of have their main team worked out. Also druid is easily the most complicated class in the game.
Thief Rogue mixed with a martial class or a caster with a lot of scrolls can be awesome if you're messing with Mind Sanctuary, where you can use actions and bonus actions interchangeably.
Wild Magic is easily S tier for the dialogue options. "Think about that time you turned yourself into a table. You were very quiet then." :P
Trip attack is awesome to set up your rogue too! Battlemaster fighter is an awesome subclass.
I love the sword bard it is extremely powerful and the crowd control is great. Magical secrets at level 10 gives you some awesome choices for spells too
Yeah I agree the Druid is the most complicated, and all the summons are tricky to navigate
I love Wild Magic sorcerer! I’m doing a Gale origin run with him as one of
I disagree with Vengeance Pal being the strongest. You already have a lot of damage as paladin, no matter what oath you decide to choose, however you and your party become immortal if you choose ancients. That heal is insane, and the aura that reduces spell damage is the best out of all of them. Just play Vengeance and Ancients on honor mode and you will clearly see the difference. It's not even close, to be honest. But mostly I would agree with this tier list.
Overall yeah the ancients healing is pretty crazy! I made this based on strength / damage and the vengeance paladin has a few ways to give themselves extra damage / advantage on attack rolls
I’m actually playing right now as a cleric of Selune (tempest) paired with Oath of Vengence Paladin. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve been hit just to respond back with lightning damage. Super fun and as a Forest Gnome (dark urge, but playing light urge). Feels really powerful, and almost into act 2 and I haven’t broken my oath…. Yet. I really like war cleric, and ironically before watching this video at work, I had dipped a couple levels into war cleric for Lae’zel. I don’t know if it will ultimately affect the story, but I have her as a cleric of Vlaakith. When I was in the arcane tower, I agreed with her orpheus is a traitor so she never read the story. And thank you for your comment a couple days ago!
I do have to defend the Ancients Paladin lol it should be WAY higher. I played an Ancients Paladin in my first playthrough, specifically an 8 Ancients Paladin/4 Wildheart Barbarian. Ancients is honestly very powerful, especially if you hit Level 7, because then you get their exclusive Aura, Aura of Warding. You and close-by allies get resistance to ALL spell damage. That is HUGE
The slander on Abjuration Wizard is wild. In terms of survivability as a wizard it is unmatched. On tactician I went down once. And it was all because I got tossed off a cliff edge. I went to 75% against Raphael, basically soloed Ansur after bad placement one my wife’s end caused her sorcerer, Karlach and Shadowheart to go down in the third round of combat. I walked out with a single hit point missing. I took zero damage from Cazador, Orin and Gortash because Arcane Ward is just that good and so easy to reup.
Div Wiz level 2 dip is really strong for portent die as well
Especially in HM, it gives you another layer of RNG protection if the game tries to throw some bs at you
Yeah that is so true! And you can always scribe scrolls for spells you miss (globe of invulnerability, conjure elemental, deva spell)
Stunning strike scales with your attack modifier, i.e. str or dex (it shouldn't) and you have access to cloud giant elixirs from refreshing vendors (you definitely shouldn't). That means unless the opponent has equally super human con (like a dragon or a slayer), you can stunning strike through legendary res about 50% of the time and you will never miss it in any other case (poor Raph doesn't get legendary res, so he's the biggest joke out of all the act3 bosses, he never gets a turn).
In conclusion, OH monk is about as good as the swords bard as disabling enemies. Luckily, casters get acuity, so they are equally overpowered. Otherwise it would just be embarrassing.
edit: GOO lock is probably the strongest because the best thing you can do with a lock is take 2 levels and then rest as sorc. The interaction of fear and reverberation is too good to pass up. Fiend gets command, so it's not a terrible dip, but it is definitely the best warlock if you don't count dips. Depends on the definition.
edit2: Good list until the very end. Abjuwizard is the best non-sorc caster, no shot it's in B-tier. You can become almost unkillable (just keep away from chasms), and it's not just a lvl 12 gimmick, it works from lvl3-4 all the way to the brain. I've been running it in trials of Tav and it prevented countless wipes.
I love open hand monk 9 / thief 3, tavern brawler and chugging a cloud giant pot. Best single target damage in the game and its fists. Love it
GOO warlock dip is incredible, I was kinda ranking these based on their weight across all levels, and as you said its just better to pair it with sorc/bard
Yeah I didn't give Wizard enough time but the video was running long. My rational for this tier list was strength, and while it is incredible defense, its not as strong offensively. But on an overall class tier list or defensive: S tier.
@@JasonDunna It's a full arcane caster, how can you say it lacks damage? The only thing missing is quicken spell. But you make up for it with being able to click heels and run around triggering opportunity attacks on fire shield + armor of Agathys. It plays like a cleric with guardians, except instead of orbs it stacks chill and encrusted. It can also use CL or CoC at any point. Technically, you could get 3 levels into sorc instead of 1 for quicken, but there is no need.
I agree that other wizards are meh (I guess evo magic missile build is ok, still not top tier), but abjuration is fundamentally different. It's definitely up there with swords bard, life/light cleric, OH monk, savage attacker paladin variants etc. It's not better than storm sorc, but nothing comes close to storm sorc.
Like I said, I'm using it in ToT as my primary arcane caster, and it's actually better than a sorc because of limited scrolls/food/elixirs and random items.
Ok you've sold me on druid. I've only dabbled with Land so far but I'm going to roll with spores druid on my next durge run.
Land is decent if you take cone of cold and utilize the woodland being’s spike growth. The spore Druid just has so many cool interactions and their armor can give haste spore to the entire team! It’s extremely powerful with the right set up
Have you considered a BG3 tier list tier list?
Hahahaha I’ve gotten a few questions asking this and maybe in a month or so I’ll rank my past tier lists on a tier list
I would mostly agree, but Abjuration is high S tier imo. You are still a Wizard with their flexibility but also more tanky than anyone else in your party. With 10 lvls in Abjuration you will never die and can fill any role the party might need, exept Lockpicking or Face
Jay Dizzle!
Hey man thanks for checking the video out! Have a blessed day
The shadow monk I love it's a lot of fun, I always put it on astarian because It feels like it makes sense for a vampire
Yeah that’s a lore accurate build! Love it. I have mine as open hand 9 thief 3
Ty for another BG video! I feel some type of way seeing the immortal Abjuration Wizard so low, but I love that playstyle can determine how strong we see different builds.
When I was doing my first playthrough, you cannot believe how HAPPY I was to see the end of Act 2 and the resulting RP-legitimate class change of Shadowheart, I hate Trickster Cleric If I dont have a DM that can actually give me something to do with it, a combat based Campaign like the BG 3 one is just so bad for Rogues and everything stealth
On another note, I hear people hyping up EK for Throwing setups, because of Bound Weapon, but here is my question: Which weapon do you people use that isnt an inherent Boomerang?
Returning Pike, Dwarven Thrower and the Legendary Trident that does the Thunder explosion on hit are ALL returning weapons, so why bother with EK?
It doesnt turn any weapon into a throwing weapon either, you cant toss a Maul or Greatsword for their weapon damage, but rather for the default 1 without any modifiers besides Tavern Brawler for improvised weapons
In fact, the only thing EK is "good" at is being a Gish build with the stuff you get from the Githyanki creche (Elemental Infusion, Arcane Synergy and Arcane Acuity, cast a cantrip, war magic bonus attack with 1d4 elemental and some boosts from the Arcane Synergy), and thats highly underwhelming on higher Levels, as you are capped to lvl 2 spell slots as well
I did a Fighter only run and at some point just reclassed my Thrower to a Champion and was much happier with it, Tavern Brawler and the gear that boosts throwing weapons is the real carry here, the EK just looks pretty and is made redundant by the best throwing weapons that NOONE else wants anyways
Yeah good point about trickery cleric, in tabletop they can be good with a decent DM but in BG3 that just isn’t the case
I think the biggest benefits to EK are getting the shield spell and being able to give disadvantage on your spells during action surge. So you can hit a hold person and yeet them with criticals.
One of the best weapon bonds is with the lightning jabber which is a throwing weapon but doesn’t return naturally!
You can also bind a weapon and give it to someone else and they can’t be disarmed
You can also bind a weapon, swap weapons, and then throw the bound weapon to have it replace your main hand weapon if you want to use different weapon actions
@@JasonDunna Im not sure if I buy Eldritch strike in honour mode, its supposed to kinda make up for the EKs shitty INT and thus spell dc, but how many enemies are there that are worth doing this whole song and dance against that
a) dont have high enough Wisdom and Saving Throw bonuses to make the advantage not matter
b) Dont have legendary resistances
c) are actually viable targets for hold person/monster (if you splurged on scrolls)
It just seems unecessarily complicated for something that doesnt even have an insane chance of working, but that could just be me, I´ll test it a little in Act 3 I guess
Arcane Trickster is not a bad class at all. I just think people don't understand it. I'd say it's probably one of the strongest early game classes of all. I'll admit it isn't S tier, but I'd probably still put it in B tier. The Mage Hand IS useful. There is an entire video about how you can buff it here: czcams.com/video/2OfTerTSqGA/video.html&lc=UgxW2yOiwJZSgL9DdKh4AaABAg.A6CeA3yKFkqA6QH-YlbFC8
The idea is to sneak attack with your offhand attack, and then cast a spell with your main action. You can drop an item for free and have your mage hand throw it at any point during your turn too, since it can move around freely out of combat. You could actually let anyone drop an item during their turn, since the mage hand is invisible, and it can casually walk up and throw it. You can do this for damage grenades or healing potions for your allies. Or you can use it to throw water on the ground for a follow up lightning attack from you or your sorcerer, so they don't waste their actions to create water. You can also have it drink potions. Hill Giants Strength lets you throw enemies off cliffs with the mage hand. I like to buff it with the Illithid power so when the shield breaks it can stun something.
You kind of have to multiclass a full caster with it though, or it doesn't get level 3 spells. I personally like to go 7AT/4 Wizard/1 Cleric, getting a level 4 spell so I can upcast Hold Person. I've tried Magical Ambush and I really don't like it all that much. Would just prefer a level 4 spell slot TBH. Being able to force crit once a day with renderer of mind and body doubles your sneak attack damage too (and also applies the psychic damage twice!), which is an amazing way to drop a ton of health on a boss right away. Not sure I'd play it on Honor Mode (I'm thinking about giving it a try), but so far it's doing really well on Tactician. Can sling fireballs too if you find a bunch of enemies grouped together. I feel like it's very versatile and people should give it a chance. :D
I really enjoy these ! I tend to watch/listen while playing 😂
Yessss!!! I love to hear that!!
What area are you at right now?
@@JasonDunna I just defeated Myrkul. I’m doing a random wheel spin challenge every time I level up on my channel 🤞so it’s gonna be fun
@@Mrboomboompow Thats awesome dude the conclusion of Act 2 is one of my favorite moments in the game! Good luck with the challenge
@@JasonDunna definitly my favorite boss in the game. and thank you kindly and good luck in the future !'
one thing that can be fun with way of the four elements monk, you can cast your spells while raging
That is so true!! I haven’t done a build on that I’ll have to try it. Since their “spells” are actions
Two-three levels of spore Druid works nicely on a open hand monk. An extra 1d6 to every punch on top of whatever monk gear you’re implementing. 3rd level spore Druid gives you pass without trace.
I agree with most but Divination is an S tier for sure. Being able to change important rolls is more powerful than anything other classes bring to the table. Ally is low and is about to die > nope. Boss just succeeded on an important saving throw > no. You cast banishment but got unlucky and rolled low > actually you succeed. Plus ability to get see invisibility and dark vision for free is useful as well. Plus all the abilities wizards get normally. There are several powerful unique scrolls in act 3 (such as summon Deva or Curriculum of Strategy: Artistry of War) that other casters can only use once but wizards can learn and use every fight.
The only reason it might not be S is because on lower levels they are a bit weaker than other S tier classes but as the game progresses they are the most powerful and versatile subclass by far.
The changing dice rolls is awesome, I just wish it was more than 2, sometimes 3 per long rest. I should’ve clarified more in the video it’s based on offensive strength where the wizard does get a lot of utility, they can’t out damage a sorcerer. But agreed getting the deva summon, Artistry of war and dethrone are all awesome spells. I like sorcerer 11 / wizard 1 to take those
@@JasonDunna you do get 3 at level 6 plus ability to regain the rolls by completing prophecies after each short rest. So in theory you could get 9 per long rest. Some are harder to get complete as conditions for prophecies are variable but on average you get 5-6 dice per long rest.
Aight so seeing Shadow Monk down in "RP Tier" would i say is a bit wrong.
While not as strong when it comes to "up in your face punching" as open hand, does it still offer more variety all around.
Is it more complicated to play? yes. But its not complicated enough for it to be weak like arcane trickster or wild magic.
if you want to push it, Shadow Blade on a Shadow Monk w Resonance Stone in your inventory.
Pick up Savage Attacker and Warcaster along w max dex (12 levels of monk w hag hair).
Then is it mostly a matter of forced crits with your shadow blade.
How good damage are we talking there? We are talking 2d8 (shadow blade) + 3d8 (shadow strike) + 1d4 (Strange Conduit ring) + 5 (dex mod) x2 (crit) x2 (vulnerbility). Can be pushed a bit further w ilithid powers for 1d4 more, but thats more than needed in most cases.
Toss in something like Haste on the monk and you are pumping out some very respectable damage still.
Not to mention the mobility of the class w shadow teleports (which works real well w a lightning team that will use Create Water to douse enemies and put out fires for more shadows).
is this "S tier"? Not at all. But id say C-B at least as a pure class.
Trickery js definitely RP tier because it's absolutely GARBAGE
@@MoonlitPhoenix0 yeah its pure trash compared to others. So annoying having a concentration when the cleric gets the best concentration with spirit guardians
I soloed act 2 and 3 on honor with gloomstalker ranger mixed with rogue and fighter
One of the best multiclasses easily
My first playthrought was a White dragon Dragonic white Sorcerer witch was incredibly fun. With shadowheart as as healer apliying bless and massive area create water and me blasting everyone with Cone of cold and Ice Storm twice bc of twin haste getting extra damage on cold type damage and extra dps on ray of frost after lv 6 and 10 wutch can be twin casted. All while Astarion is in the back 4lv Thief and 8 Ranger. And with Laizel and Shadowheart having boots immune to prone and could just bonk ememys till they've gone. 3 attacks on Lazel was amazing. Especially with my twin haste.
Amazing first playthrought😄❤
I loved it the entire game through.
I like spore druid but necromancer’s passives can apply to danse macabre, so, 4 buffed skeletons, scratch, us, shovel, free create undead ring, learned summon deva scroll, myrmidon (fire cause haste and aoe), 5 buffed ghouls (immune to summon buffing gloves debuff, i forget name), 2 mud/ice mephits. With free cast, spellcrux, arcane recovery and arcane battery x2. My Gale had a whole ARMY and 4 lvl 6 spell slots without using angelic reprieve potions. I could add in shadow wraith but i prefer dual wielding staffs. A total of 17 summons and 4 lvl 6spell slots.
Spore druid zombies are great and woodland being is excellent but having 1 less archer and ghoul and not learning spells, without wizard dipping, is quite painful. Still great. I don’t recommend using both, or one actually. Very laggy.
Also watch out for watchers, their aoe slashes are really threatening so always position your army when planning to engage.
Side note, man, conjuration sounds great for summoning but absolutely sucks.
I’d rank assassin and thief a little higher personally. Mixing either of them with a ranger can get you a super powerful archer, either with massive alpha or a huge number of attacks per turn.
Thief and Assassin 3 level dip is incredible but I was trying to weight this if you were to take 12 levels in it a little more. Thief and assassin pair with fighter, ranger, barbarian, monk and make those classes even stronger. Level 12 thief just feels like it needs to have something else multiclassed if you know what I mean. Rogue thief is the best 3 level dip in the game like I said in the video so I definitely agree with ya, 3 rogue with gloom stalker and fighter is better than hunter - but I put it A tier
How powerful a class is depends to some degree on your skill level and play style. For example, if you take long rests after every fight, clerics are much better than warlocks. If you rarely take long rests, warlocks are better.
That’s a great point, I was guilty of never long resting first playthrough but you totally should long rest more!! I ended the game with enough camp supplies to basically camp indefinitely
Circle of the moon. I play druid. Roll with halsin and jaheira as Circle of the moon. We all summon dryads who in turn summon woodwoad, then summon the cambion, shovel, three earth elementals and 6 ice mephits and my dance macob and i habmve an army to take out honor mode
I think circle of the moon is the best tank in the game! So much survivability between all the wild shapes and summons. They also pair well with storm sorc / tempest cleric for lightning damage since water elementals / myrmidons can apply wet
They’re so underrated
@@JasonDunna truer words were never said.
I get a lot of comments saying Druids are the worst class, but those are people who don’t understand the class at all. It’s really good if you spend the time learning its abilities
@JasonDunna for sure man. Even in real life dnd, druid is always my main class. And the combos for multi class. Amazing. Need more spell slots? Druid sorcerer. Want to hit harder?! Druid monk or druid barbarian. Druid bard, druid wizard (mostly wiz couple levels of druid for extra health). Druid is really underestimated.
These tier lists are always so relative. I can see abjuration & life being maybe B tier when you are playing very expertly and kill everything by turn 3. But when you want to have longer fights, or are not experienced with the game, those subclasses are just A or even S tier.
Same happens when you consider the subclasses as "base class" or "dip class".
I would say Shadow Monk for his offensive potential is actually quiiite strong, but only after lvl 11, so you’d have to endure 10 levels of something not as strong as open monk
overall after the 12 levels Shadow Monk would be low A tier for me
I mixed a spore druid and wizard necromancer for Shadowheart on my last game (using the intelligence circlet from the ogre) and it was so so fun and kicked butt!
I love your videos. Do you have a Paladin with Shield guide ?
Thanks so much! Here’s a Paladin with phalar aluve and a shield: czcams.com/video/13ToQfXPo0c/video.htmlsi=AceteM6kjoE9GW1x
Super list, i would only put shadow monk a bit higher. I am using it on my Astarion together with assassin and it feels really easy and op. Ascended Astarion feels like mele character, giving him dual crossbow or ranger feels lacking.
Was inspired by your melee party build the other day since melee is kinda my thing. Will do an evil run later and will not do honor since I wanna finish my last three Durge-related achievements. Hence I thought I might do an more offensive build. What do you think about:
Oathbreaker Paladin/Fighter 8/4 (Tav party face)
War Cleric/Fighter 8/4 (unsure what kinda weapons will be used at this point)
Open hand Monk/Thief 9/3
Wildhearth Wolf Barbarian, your build
Monk and Cleric will use Strength pots. Will also use camp buffers.
Polearm hunter for the win
Polearm master + sentinel and its crazy good crowd control
I like that you were rating classes including different builds you can do with gear in the game. But also noticed that some subclasses you didn't mention any super powerful builds using gear. So if you won't mention gear for all subclasses don't mention for any and increase the rating based on that.
I mean the subclasses that are less powerful can also use that gear too… this tier list was mostly based on the class themself but I can’t ignore that gear can make some a lot better
@JasonDunna oh I agree I think the amount of builds are super fun to explore. But when it comes down to providing information ( I also understand this is your opinion) to others based solely off of one subclasses power. I think using multiclass/gear/feats to say that one subclass is "better" than another without doing that to all of them just makes any statement of power level false. Yes, objectively some subclasses are more powerful. And mention the gear associated. But anything other than the raw subclass itself shouldn't play a factor in the ranking.
I love the draconic sorcerer but the problem I have with it is that before level 11 you have access to fly regardless of class due to the illithid powers, effecively making it a subclass with one less feature compared to the other two
Console players typically don’t go full illithid since you can’t mod the looks away so it can be great for them! The storm sorcerer is also S tier
@@JasonDunna In patch 7 we can on console too! ;)
@@matchboxx-q1z I know I cannot wait for it!
@@JasonDunna Honestly I become half illithid anyway because of the power but I do long for the sweet mods to avoid the dark veins. :)
Ayyy. Sorcerer supremacy! Lets goo!
Sorcerer is just too good, I love that class
my party is all classes in 1 im a bard at hart so what do u expect .:0 this is my team >>>> bard/pal/war drud/barb/rog wiz/clar/fight rangr/munk/sorc .....
Impressive!! You should run all bards, it’s really good surprisingly! Bard 10 Paladin 2 being the best
I love it when you speak nerd to me.
🤓🤓
Gloom stalker ranger + spore druid is a broken combination. My astarion is killing off 2-3 enemies in his first turn (in the first act itself)
The build I’ve been going with for several playthroughs now has been Oathbreaker Paladin multi classed to Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer. I’ve had two times where I’ve broken my Oath of Vengeance, killing the tieflings to free Lae’zel in Act 1, and killing Nere and taking his head off. I ended up not taking out the tieflings, but I still didn’t know how to kill Nere without breaking Oath of Vengeance. Is there a way around that? And if so, is there any other time where I may break my oath and ways around that as well?
Easy way to break path of vengeance is to let auntie Ethel go free in act one
Are you looking to break it or avoid it? I think you could disengage your character and get your team to do it, but it only costs 1000 gold to get your oath back and gold is plentiful. But for roleplaying reasons you'd have to do a different method
If you want to lose it you can lockpick sazza's cage at the druid grove as a vengeance paladin, and potentially ancients too
@@keandregreen5628 Hag's hair to take charisma up to 18 is always the move
Didn't you do this a month ago? Nevertheless I'll watch lmao
I did best subclasses which covered overall utility, this is based on strength / offensive potential! Life cleric overall is S tier but in strength its not as good as tempest/light/war if that makes sense!
In what world is Shadow Monk in RP tier while the so bad it's actively detrimental to the base class's abilities 4 Elements Monk in B? The fact you have to use a situation that just never comes up in the game to justify it is wild. I mean I know it's no Open Hand but the Shadow Monk isn't that hard to get working.
I probably should have put it higher but any time I praise the shadow monk I get a ton of comments saying it’s a terrible class haha. I think it’s pretty great as I said but the open hand is just by and far the best monk subclass, and you can add rogue thief to get a stealth bonuses
It’s hard to make these lists and please everyone. 4 elements can be fun with water whip and flurry of blows
@@JasonDunna Wow, that's actually a surprise as there's some very powerful Psychic damage based builds for the Shadow Monk, I expect most peoples views are just a little skewed by how powerful the Open Hand is in comparison.
I tend to agree with the majority on 4 Elements, its abilities are far too costly in Ki and it's effectively trying to be a blaster caster while only being a half caster. Especially from Level 5 onwards you'd just end up doing more damage by ignoring the sub class abilities.
Yeah I agree with you on that, maybe I should have put shadow monk A tier because I genuinely think the monk is one of the best damage classes in the game. I think open hand is the best single target damage with tavern brawler and strength pots. It’s so much fun jumping across the battlefield too
You violated shadow monk 😢
It’s a good class!! Just open hand outclasses it. Last time I said shadow monk was good a bunch of people disagreed heavily so I put it there as the Monk 9 / rogue 3 is kinda a shadow monk as well
Nice work!!
Thanks so much!!
Wizard and all its subclasses belongs in rp. Wizard is literally the worst full caster in dnd
Hahahaha I like the sorcerer a LOT more and I agree but people think wizard should be S tier. This was for offensive strength and they’re weaker than sorcerer for sure
@@JasonDunna Only people who think wizard is good are dorks who play D&D for roleplaying and even then the entire class fantasy of sorcerer is that their better then wizard.
"Oh but they can learn more spells through there spell book"
Just pick the most optimal spells for your leveling
"Oh but Int."
Intellgience is the most useless stat in the game
Meta magic makes them better
I agree fully with you, I receive a lot of flack anytime I talk about how much better the sorcerer is, and it simply is just better in 99% of cases. Sorcerer is my favorite class so I’m a bit biased but they’re just that good
Ancients B tier seems a bit low. Auras are the strongest feature exclusive to paladins (smite veey strong ofc but you already have a lot of damage dealer options) but level 7 warding aura is something only ancients paladin gets and procides a ton of defensive value at the opporrunity cost of a bit od damage from vengeance/oathbreaker but thats very easily accounted for with other damage dealers that probably end up being better than a pure damage dealwe smite spam pally
With this tier list I meant strongest as in offensive strength where the vengeance paladin is much stronger. But overall ancients is S tier
@@JasonDunna ah ok, that makes sense
I love druids, but comparing them to 1 turn deletion builds like Tempest, Bow(Swords) or Smite is very much overvaluing them. Looking at your list basically everything could move down save the handful of clear S subclasses and it would fit a lot better imo.
About the only thing I would move up would be Thief Rogue, not because its any good on its own, but on its massive utility in propping up a ton of the best builds.
I think another consideration is what the class itself brings to the party. Despite being in RP pretty much any Cleric or Wizard subclass is going to bring at least B tier utility whereas something like the 1/3rd casters really leaves a lot behind for the gimmick.
Yeah it’s tough to compare across a spectrum of benefits. Druids have much more survivability than most builds due to their high HP making them a great tanky class with summons. You make some great points!
Shadow monk by itself isnt good.shadow monk at level 6 plus rogue at level 4 is broken. Especially if you play durge wnd get rhe mantle that turns tou invisible for twp turns after a kill. You can be invisble fpr rhe entire fight and tlewprot around. Asding sneak attack bonusws to a tavern brawler unarmed attack. Which will be even better if youcadd exlicer of cloud giant strength and gloves of soul catching plua the boots from the gith monk in the astral prison which add wisdom modifier to your attacks too and then two in fighter....i have soloed the game on tactician using that
6Monk/4Rogue/2Fighter is good then, no?
@@Quantum_Bluntz yes that's exactly what I just said
@@MoonlitPhoenix0 I was just asking
If S (Superior!) Tier is where you put most things, you're doing tier lists wrong and your S is actually A.
What do you mean?
@@JasonDunna S Tier, meaning superior, is by definition atop most of the field.
If a significant portion of the field is in said tier, it is not superior to most of the field and thus not an S-Tier in its inherent meaning.
In a ranking of (S)ABC(RP) the bell curve should peak at B, with better than average options being in A tier and vastly superior (read: borderline or fully broken) Options being S tier.
I made a sour face when you started pronouncing that druid skill she lay lay wtf.
Love your vids tho dont get me wrong 😂
This is a funny back and forth I get every time I say it, so now I try to say both pronunciations 😂 I’m part Irish too hahaha
Team shil-lay-lee
Team shi-lay-lagh?
You should make more variations to piss peole off. Sha loo la shey lee leeh
Hey, for dmg sword bard or open hand monk?
Both are extremely strong. Bard has more crowd control and you can flourish to hit two enemies, where the monk is higher single target damage
@@JasonDunna mm i was planning to use bard+ warlock or rogue and a monk+rogue.
One for my tav run and one for dark urge. Wich fit better in your opinion? Thanks
@@marcorossoni7425 bard 7 warlock 5 is awesome because it gets 3 attacks outside of honor mode
Monk 9 rogue thief 3 is also incredibly powerful. Hard to decide between them since they’re both so strong
@@JasonDunna i gonna try honor mode once i finished those normal run ahah.
Do the bard on non-honor mode, and the monk in honor mode!
life domain should be s tier
Overall yes its definitely S tier. I ranked it S tier for beginners before too because its genuinely a good class, just not as strong offensively as tempest, light or war clerics
@@JasonDunna yh. On my honour mode run i have shadowheart as a life domain and she has saved my bacon like crazy
what no intro trivia... bunk
Don't want to waste people's time
@@JasonDunnabased