Cheap VS Expensive Solar Panels | 12v Touring | Project Cyan
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- Looking after your deep cycles batteries that you spent so much money on is important to ensure a good life span, solar panels allow you to keep them constantly at full charge while your touring.
Are expensive solar panels worth it? is there anything wrong with using cheap solar panels?
In this video I test a cheap solar panel from Sunyee and a expensive panel from a local store called Itechworld. Also in this test we see if having an MPPT solar regulator is really does give your more amps over a PWM regulator.
Sunyee 100w Solar Panel
www.sunyee.com...
Itechworld 100w Solar Panel
itechworld.com...
This panel can put out close to 100 watts czcams.com/users/postUgkxOqI2yqX0XVrhR2BMJciTWrHJpG8FhJyg when positioned in the appropriate southernly direction, tilted to the optimal angle for your latitude/date, and connected to a higher capacity device than a 500. The built in kickstand angle is a fixed at 50 degrees. Up to 20% more power can be output by selecting the actual date and latitude optimal angle.The 500 will only input 3.5A maximum at 18 volts for 63 watts. Some of the excess power from the panel can be fed into a USB battery bank, charged directly from the panel while also charging a 500. This will allow you to harvest as much as 63 + 15 = 78 watts.If this panel is used to charge a larger device, such as the power station, then its full output potential can be realized.
Never seen this fella before, but apparently his hobby is smiling. :)
Drake Steele 😂😂😂😂
My thumb hurts
Yes! Never seen anyone smile while speaking thru whole video before!
that's just being an Ozzy bloke
It's far better than giving you a nasty look!
the trick is to bend your new sunyee panel to the point that you hear it begin to snap. Thats how he unlocked the power
Hahaha
You gotta free those electrons from their bondage!
So what you’re saying is it works like a glow stick?
Gotta crack it and shake it real good to activate the magic stuff inside lmao
I learned that from glow sticks.
Please do a follow up on this video. The real question is whether the $100 panel is still working 12 months later
Seconded
Gratitude is the Prelude to any Optimism
Agreed.
Yes.. Is it still operating at the same 6 amps - 9 months later?
They are quite proud of there 300 dollar 4 amp panel. Maybe bending it destroyed part of the panel.
The problem is not that the "cheap panels" are always nasty - you proved some are not - but the expensive panels can be just really cheap panels with a brand name attached and huge mark up. It's not that I don't trust the cheapies - you get what you get, but I don't trust the pricey ones - maybe it is a good one, maybe its not, yet you pay through the nose - *you can't judge by the price.*
What a great review Michael! Please keep them coming. Your enthusiasm and fun spirit is such a change from the others (not saying others aren't good, just not as good as yours!)
So many things are like this. I'm into indoor gardening now, and led grow lights are the same way! A sucker is born every minute
@@SeekAdventure I have a classic example of this. I advertised my old car to sell. I was asking $500 and couldn't sell it for 2 weeks. Then someone said to raise it to $1500 and I sold it 2 days later for $1200. Just shows if something has a big price tag on it, people think it's better.
The best, and simple way to check the best Solar Panels is to measure the Open Circuit Voltage and the Short Circuit Current. Now take 80% of the Open Circuit Voltage multiplied by 90% of the Short Circuit Current, to give you the POWER
The Open circuit Voltage should be fairly consistent regardless of how much sun or cloud there is. It is the Short Circuit Current that is the all important one that varies with how bright the Sun is. Good panels will give you more Short Circuit Current under identical conditions. Divide your power by the surface area of your solar panel in square meters, to get the Power per sq.meter. These should be around 16% to 18% efficiency from the actual Sun's energy on your panel. Full Sun on a cloud free dark blue sky around midday should deliver about 1,000W. So at 17% efficient, you could get 170W. Quality may then simply come down to how long they will last. Solar Panels can last 50 years or more, if looked after and protected from damage.
You should generally not trust companies that can't give you product specifications. It is 101 of buying anything on the internet or real life.
@@Helveteshit That is likely true, but the companies that do give out specifications may also be fabricating or exaggerating those specifications. Now if you've paid top dollar for the fabricated specification product....
Right everytime you forget the heat shrink tubing your soldering is always the best I totaly agree
sunyee 100W panels are now out of stock thanks to this video XD
There 100W are totally sold out everywhere. They still got 200W in stock.
@@animewatch4213 Amazon
Yes but do they degrade quicker or... slower?
@@Mathijs303 slower ofc. surface ratio is higher. degrade slower. :)
I have noticed that 100 watt panels are good but not anymore cheap panels with wattage ratings of over 200 watts are available for about the same price
This was worth watching just to hear that you were "gob smacked".
@Chris Duane
You got it in one mate, a gob is your mouth by the way and it's never really okay to smack someone in the gob.
@Chris Duane Have you forgotten about the 'everlasting gobstopper'?
@Chris Duane a Gob- Stopper is a piece of candy. From a movie called, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. What's so scary?
@Chris Duane well what can I say, you boys, and thinking? I bet you're a handful around the house Hahaha. That is if, they let you in?
Or if you have one at all?
@Chris Duane oh you have a river view! Beats my view. I live in a tree house with no floor.
I have several questions:
1) Why am I watching this?
2) Is his tire flat?
3) Does math work differently down-under?
We don't have math downunder we have maths, which is way above the heads of most Americans.
Im an American and i dont know how to maths.
@@grimwolverine1 Yeah, exactly.
@@vtbn53 But one day i will learn.
@@camberlubos3995 23.7+7.3×3=45.6 guess it's not wayyyy easier for you. Inch and foot system has nothing to do with fractions, also knowing both, I agree metric definitely easier and more logical.
By the way learn order of operations😉
i had a mate who likes his solar panels too, and he was always doing tests on his camp gear to get the best out of cheap stuff. he also had expensive panels that were outperformed by some cheaper ones. one of his under performing panels was also a gloss coating resin and very shiny. we brainstormed all we knew about solar panel function (this took all of 5 minutes) and decided we were going to modify the expensive dud panel as it was worthless due to cheaper better lighter panels. SO, we made a wood block as wide as a sheet of wet and dry 1200 grit. we dragged the block and wet and dry in straight lines up and down, very evenly over the entire panel (just enough to see light scratch marks in the gloss, then same again cross ways and more difficulty, both diagonals also. it looked dull and matt finish and the resin coating was quite white in appearance as the scratches would look. we then re polished the panel with car polish to smooth it back a bit and noticed the car polish also made their own scratching and visible swirls. then it looked just old and worn and scratched....BUT, when we tested it a few weeks later against another identical panel that was still high gloss finish, the scratched resin panel was more efficient than the same one without the scratching. turns out that the scratches allowed light to be amplified by the mirco scratches (possibly somewhat like very small magnifying glass) and we think this has increased the actual surface area of the glass coating while not disrupting the actual size of the cell and thus more light reflected and refracted thru the glass resin gloss coat at surface level. we werent sure if this was an anomaly so he spent a night scratching up his other identical panel and again when we tested them together, they result was the newly scratched panel also increased its amp rate to almost the same as the first scratched panel. he has told all his camping mates and he was shouted down. til one of them did it and improved his old heavy gloss panel. id love to know if anyone else has had similar results
I'm not an electrical engineer, but this makes sense to me. A glossy surface would reflect the light away from the panel. Where as a matte finish wood absorb ions more efficiently.
@@rastanot yep, i think if the panels are too scratched then you lose performance, but there definitely is some gains with the correct grit scratching. im sure if somebody tested different grit such as 600 grit or as fine as 1800 grit, there will be an optimum grit that actually goes closest to optimum without going over and degregating the performance. but for sure, light scrapes evenly with 1200 improved the performance. i spoke to him last night, he has solar panels on his home and although he wont scratch them due to warranty, he said he does use cut and polish to clean them. he said there are visual swirlmarks on his rooftop panels but you cant see them unless your looking for them. i think there is definitely something to this for extra efficiency.
As soon as I saw the reflectiveness of the $300 panel compared to the $100 panel I immediately thought, as long as there is nothing wrong with the cheap one, it will work much better.
Great video !!! I went with the less expensive solar panels and charge controller, coincidentally the same ones you tested and I've been getting excellent results from them for the past 4 years !!! Thanks for your awesome video !!!
Box states "fragile" in all bold red print. Commences to throw them around like they are flapjacks on a griddle.
Ever seen couriers in action?
🤣😁😄👍🏻🇦🇺
Pan Cakes on in a frying pan...
Australia mate we rough with things
Guess what those panels will be going through on the roof of that fourby ;-)
Please post follow up after a year or so of usage... curious if they keep performing over the long run!
Solar panels don't depreciate in one year, even the cheapest ones like I have will run for years, my $65 315watt panels have been going for over 3 yrs. without even cleaning them, the only issues I have had was a bad Schottky diode and the edges of the panels are yellowing/browning. (Albuquerque has a way of doing that to everything)
That is a good question. Many of the flexible or semi-flex panels degrade after six months or a year. The power output can drop fifteen to twenty percent on the cheap ones.
@@kenbarnett9415 link, brand to that panel you bought??
I dont remember, the guy buys truck loads of panels, probably a defunct US solar company.
I bought them about 5 years ago, but if you look for santan solar on ebay, he's in Gilbert AZ.
Thankyou for taking time to share your experience with us. But PLEASE don't wish the rain away EVER. NEVER wish rain away. Living in DE right now and even here one can't take rain for granted.
HUGE
Thanks again for vid. 🤗
Yep. Every time I forget heat shrink the solder is perfect!
That's why I use liquid electrical tape and then use the self healing silicone tape to cover and protect it
what i get from this is that, the expensive one is just branding... it doesn't even come with proper label, or even comes well packaged, i'm glad you didn't buy two expensive ones
Edit,
You got a new subscriber ;)
A follow up would be nice! Thanks!
Solar is the way to go! Great job!!!
Like to see how the cheapie held up over the year.
Carl here USA. I run solar panels for years. Love the heck out of it. One thing you must do for your battery care, never running them below 10.6 DOD. Example. Two 6 volt batteries at 225 amps each to make one 12 volt battery. One 6 volt battery or half. 22.5 amps to work with only. Battery should be at 10.6. After use.
You know your stuff,the same as i do, but the way you presented it was absolutely amazing. Basic tech, basically explained and easy to follow.! You deserve a 12 out of 10 on this one ;)
Except for arithmetics at the end...
Stumbled on your videos yesterday. Now I've binged (did I spell that right) for the last 24 hrs. Love your work young man. Keep it up.
You're one of those folks who always looks like they're smiling.......
*they’re
@Charlie Kelley it's like seeing "looser" when supposed to be "loser".
Smiley get a bike and smiley gets a gun. Two treat Ozzie movies
Yeah, there's a woman that works at the local grocery store she, has a permanent stuck on smile. :-))
@@SeekAdventure he stop smiling for a split second when he bent the cheap one till it made a cracking sound. Momentarily he had a terrified look on his face
If both panels are of the same quality, then for the same $300 price, three $100 Sunyee panels will put out 6.19 amps X 3 panels = 18.57 total amps compared to the Itechworld $300 single panel of 4.71 amps. Interesting review Michael....
Space, efficiency, heat, shading, equipment costs.
On their web page it says to not connect them in parallel or series that it would damage them?
@@SeekAdventure, Try those test again, One panel put out 18 volts, the other 22 volts.. *Amp x Volts = Watts* .. Watts is the real power calculation.. Amps are useless with out voltage.. Buy a multi-meter, $5 on ebay..
@@THOMASTHESAILOR Except the charge controller converts them to the same voltage, likely 14.something depending on the battery chemistry. So checking the amperage there is the same, though there may be a bit more loss going from 22 than from 18.
@@lloydprunier4415 wierd huh! But it's good to know that one other commenter read that!
Just so that everyone knows A and B class panels are able to perform the rated amount that is stickered, comparable to other panels, C class will have faults and won't live up to it's name but can be broken down to multiple cells, D class is basically worth as much as toilet paper...
B class will have visible markings but A class will be flawless and perfect, best you view ratings of the panels and see the difference between PV panels, there are 2 major types of panels such as mono or poly but there are many others as well, such as panels on the ISS aren't even manufactured with the same chemicals, they have a golden brown tinge because they are designed to work in space and the stresses that it holds... those cost around $150 per cell... and they are about 1/4 the size of those cells, to put it in perspective... it turns his $99 panel with free delivery into about $2,000-$3,000 per panel... and that's cheap, the same performance though... why pay that much? well, when was the last time that people wanted to service their satellite on an annual basis? a satellite can last up to 25 years the cost of going up and down costs $20,000 per KG so you start to see that those panels that are much more expensive work out to be so much cheaper than slapping on some Chinese end of run crap on.
But for things that are on your car, look at reviews and work out what is best for your situation, if you see a panel that is $12,000 stand alone, it's probably not for you try something around $200-$400 per panel, you probably would save more over 25 years... unless you're launching a multi million dollar satellite, don't be stingy, charge it to the corporate card.
Someone asked about solar panel output in reduced light. On a rainy day, a 250 watt Jinko panel puts out about 20 watts. These are panels that produce a measured 235 watts in full sun. Low light performance doesn't track between different panel sizes or manufacturers. On the same rainy day, a 30 watt Aleko panel produced just over 1 watt.
The Jinko panels keep my "Wait until daylight" solar generator charged so we'll have limited power when commercial AC is out (several times each year). Depending on the season, we have 10 to 24 hours of limited power with no trip out in a thunderstorm to set up a small gasoline generator. The most recent use of the solar gen was having 7 inches of "1/2 to 1 inch of snow on grassy areas" and the power out for 12 hours. We had furnace, fridge and some lights after a quick trip to the basement to operate a few breakers.
Followup - on a series of very dark and dreary days, the output of two 250 watt panels was 5 watts or about 1% of their rated power. Solar power does require solar input ;-) For my application - keeping a battery bank charged for use as a solar generator when commercial power is out several times a year, but usually for just a few hours - days like this are not a problem unless they're accompanied by ice or winds that can bring down power lines. The solar generator provides 10 to 24 hours of limited power, depending on the season - obviously there will be fewer hours of power if the central heat is running ;-) However, the solar gen does provide "Wait until daylight" power so I'm not out in the dark or a thunderstorm getting a gasoline generator going. I've done that - in the dark, in 7" of snow at 30F - so I prefer even limited power (fridge, furnace, a few LED lights, charging cell phones) that doesn't require a trip outside.
No, I'm not rich. Just an old guy living on a fixed income and trying to make things easier on myself. The solar generator was financed by proceeds from my first novel, available on Kindle for just $2.99: www.amazon.com/dp/B01LVU5ILA
This is a man that really enjoys what he's doing. Great video.
Definitely should have tested them BEFORE you bent/cracked them!
Note, flexible panels are fine for temporary use or in cold climates. If you leave them out in the hot sun, they will fry in about a year (speaking from experience).
Fast paced, concise, real world results, I like your style. Never heard or saw the ABC ratings, I will look at that from here on out.
Different panels run at different amps. You could have a panel run at 6 amps and 30 volts and give you 180 watts. If it runs at 5 amps and 36 volts still 180 watts. You need voltage and amperage to determine panel efficiency.
When charging a battery, you just need amps. So finding a panel that gives the most amps is important. Charging your 12V battery at 5A/15V is quicker than charging at 4A/25V
Had a flexi on our bus for 3 years . They do the job . You cant go past a 36 volt house panel with a victron smartsolar mppt. Solar controller . Victron have a excellent app. Ve. Direct smart . This links by bluetooth to your device and in my mind wipes the need for battery monitors as long as you understand your system. You get a display stating charge state , voltage in and out current in and out , a 30 day history stating min. Max. And time for states of charge. Streetlight function is a function allowing you to turn your power on and off with your tablet and much much much more . Its also cheap . Is that what you were looking at on your phone . Nice video mate.
Don’t be too quick to ditch the MC4 PV connectors. Unlike Anderson plugs MC4’s were specifically designed for solar panels. They have the advantage of being sealed and completely water and dust proof. I run MC4’s on my portable panels and also on my panel extension cables. I have a short MC4 to Anderson plug adapter lead which I use to connect to the solar regulator which is located back at the battery. If you are using a MPPT regulator you can gain some additional efficiency by connecting two panels or more in series which is easy to do if using MC4’s. (NOTE: Providing the solar regulator can accept these higher input voltages) Series connecting panels reduces voltage drop over a long cable run and works best with a MPPT regulator. As for the difference in performance using the PWM controller, the PWM will not convert excess voltage into additional current like an MPPT controller will so a panel with a higher output voltage won’t work as well with a PWM controller as it will with a MPPT.
Roland Matters good advice but Sunyee website says not to wire in series or parallel in case of damage.
Moorabinda That’s a downside of many flexible panels. The internal conductors and connections are often thinner to allow the flexibility, are prone to fatigue and less likely to reliably cope with higher voltages and currents than solid panels.
Makes sense. Thanks for explaining.
Michael Sanders You can get rubber covers for Anderson connectors which stops them filling up with mud and dirt etc.
MC4 are not waterproof they are water resistant.
Haha perfect solder joints every time you forget the shrink wrap! So true
I bought 2 flex panels off eBay back in 2012 because I didn’t want to screw my panels in to my rv roof… I used that heat/tar tape (for the lack of the right word) that is meant to to be used to fix leaks on rubber type roofs. You peal the back off and on one side it’s white on other side it’s the sticky side like black tar and after it’s on you roll it with a rolling pin.. the longer it’s in the sun the more it melts into the roof. So I over lapped half on the roof half on the solar panel..This worked great until 2020 when they finally came loose. But before that could happen the flexible solar panels (that worked great for a long time) the plastic film covering the panels turned yellow and a aprox year later the plastic film pealed off… but for what it’s worth they worked great and on the cheap.. since then I have sold the truck camper it was on. But 2 panels had no trouble charging the battery to full when it was first installed ..Here is a hint I bought a used commercial back up battery from the fire department since they are required to change out every year or 5 idk. But for $60 that battery is still going strong and it’s like 15 or more years old! Crazy I know.. only prob the battery weighs a ton!
Highly reflective panels do not absorb as much light so Sunyee with its matt finish probably absorbed more light and produced more power.
The reflective layer should protect the PV surface and provide a longer life span. How much longer than the matt is the question.
Hi Josi, I believe that in the case of solar panels it is the uv coating that is most important for panel protection and not the type of finish as they have a stated lifetime. Hopefully all panels should have equal uv protection to last their estimated lifetime so that the panels will not fog up from plastic coating degradation.
I do not know what type of finish each panel has, but from the results, it seems that the cheap panel does not have as much coating (finish), if any, as the expensive one, therefore absorbing more light and generating more power. There are many other variables to be taken into consideration for a complete evaluation.
Hi all, it is definitively the particular type of Photovoltaics(PV)-technology in detail used that makes the difference in power. The surface finish respectively any anti-reflecting coating only adds 2-3% in power-output.
The better performing panel uses SunPower silicon technology solar cells - the best performing technology in the mass market available, but a very fragile interconnection technology that is not at all designed for flexible application! By the way, the previous module is of the same technology and should perform in the same range if all is ok. If used in glass-backfoil panels with frame the technology is performing excellent.
The weaker module uses standard Silicon technology.
If you want flexible PV-Pamala you have to go for thin-film Technologies as Flisom for example - CIGS technology - that can be rolled.
As long as you have the quasi-square solar cells that are typical for silicon technology inside a panel, do never bend it and neither drop anything on it. The cells will break as you heared by the krackling noise ... - invisible for our sight- and the power performance drops as the connection of the ribbons degrades and will break at the end.
Wish you lot of fun with your outback trips.
Kind regards from the alps
Urs
A matte surface reflects lights in random directions as opposed to a glossy surface, which reflects light in the same angle. This doesn't say anything about how much light is reflected.
I had one of the sunyee flexible panels. It was great at first. But after about 12-18 months, the surface was cracked and discoloured from the sun / elements.
I've gone back to the traditional glass top, aluminium frame style. Though it's still just a cheap ebay one, it's still going strong after a year.
The trick is to do a flex test first and almost break the thing. That's called "breaking it in". That's why it works better.
I noticed that attempts to break them first. LOL. His intelligence is amazing. He cuts off the waterproof connectors then mounts connectors in a splash prone area. Does test without mentioning watts & on a battery that's already over 90% state of charge and probably in absorb mode.
You are bad😂😂
Love the energy you show making the video. You make it look like so much fun I wish I could be there.
Would be keen to see how they are going say 12 months going strong in the Aussie sun.
You need to come back!!!!
We really miss and appreciate your hard work.
Michael Sanders I really enjoyed this video! Pacing and content both delivered very well! Nicely done!
This is a nice video. There is one test you need to do. Degradation with time. In my experience the cheap panels just stop working in a as little as a year.
Also with that vibration as you drive those little cracks you heard will cause permanent failure. For this reason I think glass panels all the way. Particularly on a van.
People who are worried about degradation would do well to steer clear of flex panels in general.
So here’s the thing about value of solar panels; we aren’t just talking about initial production. We have to remember durability and longevity can be major factors. One less expensive company’s panels might produce more energy then a more expensive company’s panel; but that more expensive panel might last significantly longer then the cheaper one as well
The more expensive ones could also just trimmed to be a better all rounder performing also fairly good in less ideal situations
love his attitude, got ripped-off and yet still looks happy :)
It's all about perspective. You say he got ripped off. I say he found a great bargain.
What’s really sad is he cut off the end, essentially rendering the panel unreturnable.
Test them on a cloudy day to see which one is more efficient when the sun is not out.
Solar panels go down to virtually zero on cloudy days, not worth even using them. The ratings are for direct sunlight, panels pointing right at the sun, bright sunny day, in summer, on the equator. More or less. They can be misleading, you'll notice our guy in the video was on a beach on such a bright day you could barely see without sunglasses. Then you get the full rating! Or nearly! 85% will do!
@Thomas Schneider cheers mate!
3/5ths of 5/8th of bugger all. They are still worth putting out, but expect maybe 15-20% of the rated output. Mono or Poly crystaline degrade more than Amorphous panels under these conditions.
@opisex not necessarily. Newer technology and materials on some panels have a much better output in cloudy conditions than older tech and materials...or so I have read.
I've never actually tested the it myself.
@@greenaum >Solar panels go down to virtually zero on cloudy days, not worth even using them.
Not true, as direct observation will show.
> The ratings are for direct sunlight, panels pointing right at the sun, bright sunny day, in summer, on the equator.
The ratings are for 1000w/m^2 at a cell temp of 25C. This would be ambient temps around freezing.
MPPT is actually 1.48 amps difference, not 1.22
just came down to see this comment
And eheapo reg is 5.97 - 5.10 = 0.87 not 0.81. Math err aside, a nice video, thank you!
Was just checking to see if anyone picked up on that aha
He doesnt math well..
quik mafs
Great video! I love your enthusiasm and your solar powered lifestyle. PWM controllers still provide three-stage battery charging for lead acid batteries (bulk, absorb, float). They just operate at the battery voltage rather than the MPPT voltage of the panel. In a hot climate with short wires like you have there will not be a huge difference in the charging performance between the two different controllers. The added benefits of MPPT style controller are most evident where the temperature drops below freezing and/or where you need to make a long distance wire run and connect multiple panels in series for higher voltage and lower current in the overall circuit.
A couple more edge cases where MPPT has an advantage due to the Vbatt = Vpanel issue you correctly mention:
* when the batteries are deeply discharged
* when using relatively low voltage charging setpoints
* when running loads larger than the panels can support at battery voltage
For curious/geeky onlookers, I'll note that even MPPT do not always run the panels at Vmp: they run the panels at the voltage required to [try to] meet demand at the time. Sometimes that's the MPP, sometimes it's not. :-)
Even where MPPT has advantages, the much higher cost of MPPT may not be worth the return for a given scenario. It is commonly said that many folks would be better off with PWM + an extra panel instead of spending that money on MPPT. Horses for courses and all that.
"I wish I could learn to read" love this dude
I wish my daughter would find a man this capable and kind.
One of the question is how dark can there be until they stop working. Maybe the more expensive can produce electricity in dimmer light than the cheaper one.
Also, how long will the cheap panels last compared to the expensive ones. I have no doubt the components inside are less quality, but maybe not.
@@chrisfarley6662 nah, mainly the surface and the structural components. We saw that the cheap one was less flexible and has a mate surface instead of glossy. It might age a lot worse with the weather and sand
Still I doubt the more expensive one lasts 3 times more x'D
True.
Most of the price is in the markups, so there's no reason more expensive panel should perform better. There are certain types of solar panel crystals that have lower yield (you still get a lower grade panel even if a high grade panel manufacturing fails) and they get marked up more. Technically, higher grade crystals have higher power conversion efficiency but the price difference is so huge it's just not worth the money, just buy a bigger panel instead.
Interesting, though I'm not sure it's a fair comparison without looking at the voltage (and therefore power), especially with an MPPT controller.
Great video… The MMPT controller will more than likely out perform the cheap (PWM?) controller in cloudy lower light conditions…
Lol. You are so right. My best soldering is combined with forgetting the shrink wrap.
Every damn time!
Stick some tape on it while no one's looking.
Hey mate, Awesome vid as always.
The flexible solar panels are not designed to be bent into that extreme as you demonstrated. I would guess that the itech panel, some of the solar cells might have been damaged when you bent it. would be interesting to see differences in the itech panel that you have, and one that has not been bent.
Cheers for posting
Agreed. You may have exceeded the bend radius enough to "detach" (2) cells.
@@SeekAdventure Hey mate, you might want to listen to what people are saying, all the spec sheets on the itech panel give an amp rating of 6.24, meaning your panel is dusted. Just because they can be flexed does NOT mean you should be bending them to their max. This is a bad test as you obviously broke that panel considering its operating at about 30% less output that stated by the manufacturer. All told this was a fantastic way to ruin a 300$ solar panel.
@@cylejh It was the less expensive panel that gave a cracking/crackling sound, which may have just been the cover material or internal boards or circuitry. It then still out-performed the more expensive panel that did not give that sound. However, the comments often add a good deal more to the content of the video, and so we are now all aware of the limits of so called "flexible solar panels". I can say that I would not have been aware of the limitations without the video demonstration and the additional comments.
Thanks to Michael Sanders and the other commenters.
@@Peter-nu6ix yeah everyone commenting is an idiot but us
From an 19 year HVAC expert, this is very efficient for the size and noise level
But does the cheap one last as long? You should come back to this in a few months and test again.
Even if it only lasts 1/3 of the time you're still coming out ahead on cost, not even counting the 12-31% better output.
for just $90 its too impressive! imagine having 3 of it.. instead of spending $300 on just 1 useless panel that isn't even %30 as powerful as the cheap ones
There is no reason the cheap panels would not last as long. But they may be more vulnerable to damage. They also, might not come up to the same full specification as the more expensive panels. That is why I suggest start with just one or two of each, then do your own testing for your situation.
In a few years rather, they don't degrade that quickly unless they had major defects from the start.
Solar Panels can work for over 50 years, providing they are not damaged,even cheap ones. That is track broken, which I have seen happen. Even shattered glass does not stop them working, but you need to keep the rain water out of them which could then cause mold. @@MsSomeonenew
This is the happiest man in the world :D
thanks for the comparison!!
You forgot to mention the cheap panel is a lot smaller in size as well, so in other words its performance is amazing ............ Great Review Thank You
Glossy finish is reflecting precious photons
that was my first thought. as soon as he compared them i was like "why on earth would you make a reflective panel. that's the absolute opposite of what you want"
Robbie Callaghan actually, you can get a better output if you put an anti reflective coating above the solar cell. It may look reflective in the visible range but wherever the cell is most effective, it can increase the amount of photons transmitted through the material. Not sure that that’s what’s happening here but definitely not possible to say that it definitely makes it less effective.
There's also the issue of different number of cells and therefore voltage between the panels, but the different voltage shouldn't make up for all the difference in current. Although hard to tell without more information
@@uggima1 who cares about the different voltages and current at that end, it's what goes into the battery for your money that matters.
Not to mention contaminating our precious bodily fluids
$63.69 per amp vs $16.15 per amp! No contest!
american government: CHINA is ILLEGALLY STEALING intellectual property from THE SUN
Bang for buck equation.
@Darth Mercur
Nope.... he is Chinese troll
@@stnln2180 Or maybe he understands the ludicrousness of "intellectual property".
@@fratermus5502
It is immoral to steal somebody's else ideas and financially benefit from it......
Given the expensive panel had no statement on its output suggests they sold a duff panel especially given it has a larger area. If you crank the maths and state performance per unit area you will conclude the marketing charged 4x the price on a normalised performance. You should have swapped cables between the panels to eliminate a resistive loss in one cable under load.
Good demo by an honest man.
Good sound, and lighting, well paced; great explanations without being ponderous or preachy; informative, good scripting providing just enough advance explanation with good follow-up -- all in all WELL DONE.
Your double-connector is clever AF.
Why?
The Steve Irwin of Off-road, not just because of accent, but I enjoy the content because clearly he is enjoying discussing it.
Accent helps though
You might should have tested the output of both panels BEFORE trying to destroy them by folding them over. The idea behind semi-flexible solar panels is to have a way to mount solar panels to an irregular curved surface and to save weight. The manufacturers NEVER intended for you to try to fold them over like you did. There would never be a situation where a solar panel folded over like that would actually produce usable power.
"get the cheap panel and crank the voltage" You're on to something there... The _current_ you observe is at the input of the DC/DC, yes? Which doesn't tell you a thing. What you are actually looking for is power you get out of your panel. If the cheap panel reads double the current (in A) and at the same time its voltage (in V) Drops to half, then the power (in W) going into your DC/DC is exactly the same as with the more expensive panel. And the output to the battery (power-W and current-A will be the same since voltage-V will be the same; about 12-14V).
Sooo, to really compare the two panels, you need to read both current (A) and voltage (V) And multiply the two. For each panel. Then compare that value.
Exactly, you need to get the multiplication of (A) and (V) to get how much watts the solar panels actually charge.
That's precisely what I intended to mention!
Besides, where is that display current being measured? Is that current coming into the controller from the panel, or is that current being fed to the battery for charging?
🤔
Where's that pwm controller being introduced, and aren't we looking at the display of an mppt controller?
🤔
Too many unknowns at this point to be able to draw a meaningful conclusion.
For a true panel comparison, it is necessary to measure the panel current and output voltage simultaneously and compare that product, like you said.
At around 9:00 he says that the battery monitor monitors the current at the battery, implying that the measurement is taken at the output of the DC/DC. So the voltage should be the same for both measurements.
Actually, they load same battery, meaning same voltage - so power is proportional to current (Ampers). So - % difference is applicable also on power obtained from panels.
@@joshicune
🤔
Since when is battery voltage a constant?
I know this is a old vid but I've been using 1 them el cheapo blue solar regulators for 6 or 7 yrs now with 2 cheap 160W panel like on the old maxtrax box n both panels still putting in over 8amps.I did buy 1 panel with the cheapo regulator and the panel didn't work so the ebay seller sent me another panel n regulator, the busted panel wasnt connected properly behind that black box on the back, so scored a free panel and free el cheapo blue regulator, all still working good and still haven't had to use my spare regulator , so 6 or 7 yrs of use and only dropped from 8.9amps to bit under 8.1amps. ps after the recovery tracks review ya done years ago i got 2 sets of xbull for 1/2 the cost of 1 maxtrax n the copped a beating n still using them
14:18 let me check this Aussie math:
6.19- 4.71= 1.22A AUS
6.19- 4.71= 1.48A U.S.
Hmmm....must be the opposite rotation of the earth down under.;)
Granted, at 10:50 you do get it right :)
As a fellow Aussi I can testify Maths works differnet down under
I'm assuming his 1.22a measurement is in US Imperial or something because I got 1.48a
All depends on your elevation (higher the better, less atmosphere for the sun to shine thru), ambient temperature even a bigger issue, the colder the better.
Where did you get your batteries?
I don't know much about electricity, but I'm pretty sure he just did the math quick in his head and got mixed up subtracting his numbers because his greater number is on the bottom, and lesser number on top. But you're right. 6.19 - 4.71=1.48. He didn't specify that his numbers were anything other than amps soooooo I'mma submit that on the test and walk away
The discussion of flex/rigid panels will go on forever, his reason is good enough and zip ties I never thought of but something soft under would be a good idea to stop wear from the rack.
Cheap versus expensive is also long discussed, but 300$ is a bit much, I have 2 cheapo unbranded 100w (flexy as I need to get under 2m) 2 ½ year in one failed, not the one battered by trees and branches but the unmarked one was down to 15v 1.2A in full sun, both have lost there gloss finish and dull but the surviving panel is still pushing out rated amps 5.4A in full sun I’m at lat 45deg.
Have a Renogy 100w flex on the way €127 about A$ 200, try a hopefully better panel, if no better long term I’ll stick to cheapo and keep a spare as I need 200w as I camp off grid all year.
"I wish I could learn to read", funny, gotto remember that one.
I dont think he can ahaha
His math at the end with comparing the amperage differences per controller were well off both times lol
I'm going to hazard a guess as to why. I believe it's the glossy exterior of the more expensive one is hurting it. The extra polish may be reflecting light that would otherwise be hitting the cells. This could be costing it some performance.
However, the question I have then is, is that glossiness caused by a protective layer that is protecting the cells, thus maybe making it a longer lived product vs the cheap one that is matte because the cells might be directly exposed to the weather?
You should have checked voltage on both. You might have seen a higher v on one compared to the other. Also you need to test them at angles (i.e partial sun, low sun on the horizon, etc). You need a couple of days worth of data using watt hours.
Exactly what I was thinking. It's the total wattage that matters, not the volts or amps (except for wiring and conversion efficiency considerations).
By the end of the video I was almost laughing from watching him talk through hi smile.
Test the Panels at cloudy days and you will See the difference in the effency. And than you will see the advantages of a monocristalline cell. ;-)
Agreed, not a substantial test. Included also should be partial shade tests, and less than ideal angle tests, as the expensive panel likely performs better under less than ideal conditions which occur frequently
@@UmeNNis Assuming the same technology (not comparing standard to bificial, for example) there is no reason why $$$ panels should outperform (or underperform) cheaper panels in less than ideal conditions. The $$$ will likely have higher efficiency (smaller footprint for a given rated), but this does not translate into higher efficiency per panel.
@@fratermus5502 well since the $$$ seems to be bificial, from what I found googling a couple minutes, there still with your reasoning should be reasons why $$$ would outperform the cheaper one in less than ideal conditions.
@@mano9236 I'm explicitly talking about apples to apples.
Seems legit.
You’re the most Australian person I’ve ever seen. Big compliment!
According to the Sunyee website, 6.1 amps means your panel has an electrical short!
@Seek Adventure Thanks for the comparison! Very helpful although there was a critical thing left out that I would love to see a re-do on... While the amperage is what really counts, the voltage the current is delivered at makes a difference also. If the Expensive panel was delivering a higher voltage, that could account for some of the difference although maybe this is accounted for by the battery monitor being on the battery side of the MPPT controller? Also, did the 2 panels have an equal number of cells? Thanks so much again, cool video!
Great video! My only concern would be the real life longevity of the cheapo solar panel compared to the more robustly constructed panel. That would be a 5 year QC test I suppose. He's a great guy; the kind of person you'd want to have a brew and shoot a rack of pool with anytime.
Who cares? At 1 third the cost, you could by one a year for 3 years and still be ahead.
Should have tested the output before you did a flex test. Wouldn't be a fair if one of the cells are damaged
in that case he would not get the voltage or no power at all. in video there is voltage on panel but amps are much less
Except it was the cheap Sunyee panel that made the cracking sound when he flexed it.... and yet it outperformed the panel that cost 3 times as much.
But didnt the cheap panel crack? And that's the one out with the better output right?
maarwopi I’ve broken solar cells, you can snap them in half and they still produce power, but it’s only half, my panels have a couple with snapped cells, so the surface area isn’t as good as unbroken (I made mine from the paper thin rigid cells, and broke half of them with an old soldering gun that absolutely sucked, got a soldering iron and success rate went from 45% to 95%). For fun, I linked lots of the tiny broken shards about the size of coins together just to see what happens, and they worked fine, but if it’s not electrically connected to the rest of the cell (as in cracked), then it doesn’t do you any good.
But if you need a custom sized panel for a specific area, fun fact you can just snap the cell to make it fit, and it still works, lol!
It was the cheap one that made the cracking sound, but I think it was just the cable connector moving. Either way it outproduced the big money panel.
How am I supposed to trust results and testing with that math?! Lmao... thanks for the video though, busting your balls aside it was a decent comparison
I love people who are as happy and smiley as you are!
The outout difference is actually 1.48 amps (4.71 - 6.19 = 1.48)
I was wondering that myself.... Glad I'm not the only one who caught that.... also, ?.81A? It's .87A
This just makes me wonder what else is wrong with this review or setup....
15:38 you and me both, you and me both.
Yes, but how long will these panels last? And straight away I could deduce that the shiny one was likely to underperform because it's reflectiveness.
It will probably last a lot longer.
Really good video! (14:02 The difference is actually 1.48A instead of 1.22A; 14:27, the difference should be 0.87A instead of 0.81A)
I seriously want to hang out with you and buy you a beer mate. Great video
What a rad vid...I hear a lot about buying cheap solar panels and a good DC/DC MPPT charger and you just proved it...Keep doing these reviews as I'm a cheap ass and I need all the info I can get...Better to waste your money than mine...That's rad...👍🍺...
We should all learn a lesson here. I think it's clear there's a lot of people who still regard products made in China as inferior, but the reality for most of living in Western countries is that practically everything is manufactured somewhere else, with a major portion of stuff being manufactured in China. For instance, in my part of the USA, it was known world wide for it's fine furniture, but all of that was literally shipped over to China, including training by the wood working shop masters. I saw a video recently of a guy in the USA and he was really racist about Chinese products.. wanted to buy American made so he paid a lot more for solar power equipment from an outfit in the US state of Colorado only later to realize it was the same Chinese product that he had decided against because it was so cheap compared to what he thought was the original product, that he thought it was a knock off. Whether or not you agree with the Chinese political system, it must be admitted that they now produce high quality products at very competitive prices. Sure there are scams but we just saw in this video that buying from your friendly local supplier is no guarantee that you're not getting ripped off.
@@pakde8002 I agree.👍...
@@pakde8002 not ripped off,but rather: supporting your community, and aftercare, convenience, knowledgeability, warranty.
200% mark up is a lot to pay for what you just described. It doesn't have to be this way but I found at least here in Australia that our retailers have no issue at all fleecing the general public to make a buck, especially with relatively niche things like solar for camping. Jump on the Jaycar or BCF websites and compare their prices to eBay for same spec equipment. They deserve to fail charging up to 3 times the price of eBay for the same "made in China" stuff. Also keep it in mind that they get this stuff way cheaper than you or me can get it on eBay as they import it by the container load. I'm happy paying up to 30% more than eBay to have it my hand right now and support local retail but their incessant greed means that more often than not that simply isn't an option .
@@protonpillpopper1 Try running a retail operation before you throw your own prejedices onto a comment board. My guess is you're a wage earner that has no experience at all of paying either staff or commercial rent.
Just wanted to drop in and wish everyone a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
All Australians sound like they are asking a question and always make me think of Anchorman.
"I'm Ron Burgundy?"
Such a cool and funny mate, great vid, subbed when you cut the stock the stock cable ends off hahaha!
Don’t be fooled by the price tag, hahahah. As a solar PV engineer/entrepreneur who has designed millions of panels to the market, i can tell you the cheap one seems to have much better built quality inside out. The IBC cells (full back contact design where you see no wires at the top) are much more efficient than the 2BB cells (with two wires blocking sunlight in front), the packaging is more professional, the matt surface can be more scratch resistant... when you bend the panel you’ll make micro-cracks for sure. That’s why the encapsulants HAS to have some rigidity like the cheap panel design. The expensive one might well have been damaged during shipment. Cheaper one is the winner for me for sure.
So for the same money you have 18.6Amps instead of 4.7...
Man, that's the truth about forgetting the heatshrink
Shame you're not doing this anymore but glad that your videos are still available.
Shouldn't he also measure the voltage and calculate power?
Yeah wattage=voltage*amperage so if the panels are operating at different voltages they could still be outputting the same amount of power.
Everytime logic is used an angel gets it's wings
Well, not really as the controllers will be setting the voltage for the level of charge in the batteries, so as the batteries were the same, and the controllers were the same for each panel test then it is fair to assume that the voltage would of been the same. So simply comparing the amps is valid.
That's precisely what I intended to mention!
Besides, where is that display current being measured? Is that current coming into the controller from the panel, or is that current being fed to the battery for charging?
🤔
Where's that pwm controller being introduced, and aren't we looking at the display of an mppt controller?
🤔
Too many unknowns at this point to be able to draw a meaningful conclusion.
For a true panel comparison, it is necessary to measure the panel current and output voltage simultaneously and compare that product, like you said.
Thank you. He should have been testing wattage.
math is off. sunyi did better than 1.22 A more.
what about lower light performance?
what voltage was the output?
how well do they compare at the end of the charge?
Indeed i mean if One panel was 10 volt the other 20 even if the 20 volt is lower amps its Still more Power... I mean amps isnt everything when it comes to Power...
The regulator will stabilise the voltage, so it might be the same, but a real test would be to measure raw power. And of course in the shade.
I like how he chucks the boxes off camera like he does this every day.
The more expensive panel has a reflective surface that's why it's not producing as much as the cheaper panel.
that and the cheap panel is a better design all round. Its a comparison of high priced gen 2 panels vs low cost gen 3 panels.
Things gen 2 did. over sized tracks between cells. Thick cells, Super glossy/clear coverings.
Things gen 3 panels do. Less cell thickness but may have multiple layers, matte looking cells, normally cant see the tracks as they have many more but much finer.
@Chris Young 4:29 the sunyee (inexpensive one) is the one he may have cracked and it still did better
Seems a bit harsh to call him a moron. I am embarrassed for you and apologize to him on your behalf.
sounds like you were really amped with the results
Powerful comment.
I see that. I see what you did there.
Really electrified!
Wow! Sunyee should send you 2 more panels for free to make up the difference in the cost of the Itechworld. Sunyee is going to gain so much more in sales because of your video. I have been researching panels, on and off and keep putting off purchasing panels because of the great differences in prices and worry about getting the power they actually claim their panel produces. You sold me on this Sunyee panel. Like you, utterly dumbfounded by the difference in price and performance and confirming again that you can't always trust that you will get what you pay for when it comes to solar panels.
It makes sense, the shinyness is light reflecting off of it as opposed to be absorbed by it.
You beat me to it! Exactly right.
I dont think that's how that works. More light being absorbed would mean the solar panels would be darker/black, not have a matte finish. Reflections happen a lot more at sharp angles and are probably pretty negligible if the sun is high in the sky.