Every Time People Used Low Level Pokémon Competitively
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- Sometimes... it pays to be underlevelled B)
0:00 Introduction
0:37 Slowking and Slowbro
1:28 Cofagrigus
2:28 Exeggecutor-Alola
2:49 Slurpuff
4:13 Wishiwashi
4:59 Chansey
6:15 Pyukumuku
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Level 100 Pokemon "Who are you?"
Level 99 Pokemon "I'm you, but slower."
Yes
Haha
(which means faster with Trick Room)
Imagine level 95
Ditto: I'm you but faster
I've seen people use level 99 Aegislash in 1v1s to underspeed opposing Aegislash and therefore win the ditto thanks to the ability.
I use it to trigger the weakness policy before the opposing Aegislash, everytime it works like a charm
Please refer to it as "mirror" ditto is literally another pokemon
@@cooperm4185 ditto
@@cooperm4185 but he already said it was aegislash v aegislash
@@cooperm4185 can also win against a ditto for the same reason tho
Average Showdown Player: "So, what do you do?"
Level 97 Slurpuff and Level 96 Pyukumuku: "We die."
Aegislash in Gen6 OU was another one that comes to mind. With the goal being to outslow the enemy Aegislash, making them change into the significantly less bulky blade form first.
I thought it was the opposite, to get into the offensive stance last so it can take the hit with high defe ses and then attack, and since king's shield is a priority move you can make it so the opponent always hits your aegislash in defensive stance.
@@crashsparrow6943 you're both right. You can't have one without the other. You get higher defenses when hit and get to hit their frail form. I'd say the higher defense is the more important part of that, otherwise you'd just die when hit.
@@llamaryder1 bbbnmmmmmmmmnbmm bmmmmmMBCm
nmmmnmm2.bb.4not443333333333333;3233 a.w
I remember VGC using lvl 49 groudon or kyogre’s to be slower than the other respectively to get weather up
Yeah, that’s become way less common in today’s metagame because most people would be afraid to run a -speed nature let alone under level their Groudon/Kyogre as their strength is extremely vital and their speed makes tailwind matchups better
@@KindaKaon I believe all your pokemon are automatically rounded to level 50 in vgc now. The underlevelling strategy was prevalent in gen6 only
@@KindaKaon it happened in gen 6 because of primal weather. Groudon always negated it’s water type weakness (outside of airlock and cloud nine) and Kyogre always had rain boost and fire negation as long as they were the slower pokemon. Forcing the other primal out to come back in if they wanted their respective weather.
UNfortunately modern VGC rules force your level, so this strategy is no longer possible. From the rules:
"All Pokémon will be automatically on Level 50 regardless of their actual in-game level."
@@MD-vs9ff I wouldn’t do it without primal anyways. Base kyogre and groudon have drizzle and drought respectively. So any weather setter can switch and disrupt weather
5:35 “there’s actually a bug in generation one” wow what a surprise!
at this point i’m just fascinated by all the bugs in gen 1
@@clarkkent1616 pinsir, parasect, beedrill, scyther, etc :)
People really hate bugs maybe if people didn't hate them so much it would still be good against poison
I'll never be able to forget about leel 85 chansey just because of the thumbnail on big yellows video about niche strats
edit: you know what im just gonna keep it as leel
Zamn!
I also remembered that!
Zamn! She’s level 85?!
Not important, but level is mispelt, which is funny since it’s like girafarig, but can be confusing
One of the better thumbnails ever
Theres a rare strategy in singles called “playing lc” in which the optimal way to build your team is to make all your pokemon level five.
Technically speaking that's just the standard way to play LC, the optimal way is to use level 100 mons and clown on your opponents
The optimal way to build your team is to lose
@@bigchungus7870 Suicide Cup:
"Perhaps I could be of some assistance."
Level 99 is quite common in Hackmons formats as well, on account of the many speed ties found in the format. Base 90s in particular do this a lot, to underspeed the numerous other base 90s with your own pivoting.
idk about other formats, but in Gen 6 Pure Hackmons, nothing really uses level 99.
I believe another reason why they use level 99 is to avoid Core Enforcer’s side effect
And that's why, in SM, Game Freak changed the rules of VGC so that every Pokémon is at level 50 regardless of its level
I used to run a draft league (think NBA style drafting but Pokemon) and a massive meme among my friends was lvl 99 Haunter. I don't know why it was Haunter specifically, but it was nicknamed Spooky lvl 99. Good times.
I also remember lvl 49 Groudon being a niche pick for Trick Room teams in VGC a couple years back, so this isnt limited to Showdown, these kinds of strats have actually seen official competitive use.
Hold up very important note: there were a couple of moments where low level Pokemon were actually viable in Ubers, like i think cotonee was in the viability ranks or something. They were never truly good but they went beyond gimmicks
the beginning of the video mentions level 1 pokemons, because of the fear strategies.
I think Cotonee caused a stack overflow error with Mega Ray or something so it didn't die
@@some_hippies If it caused a *stack* overflow, it would (probably) crash the game. If it caused an overflow of any kind, it was probably an *integer* overflow, where a positive integer becomes so large it wraps around and continues counting from the smallest possible value (i.e. zero, in the case of an unsigned integer).
Yes, being level 1 and use leech seed + protect with prankster, but ruins that strategy with a grass type or simply swapping
Sometimes having weaker stats can be a good thing... the Chansey strategy was really unexpected, and very situational but also really interesting.
especially considering a level 99 essentially has level 100 stats (~0-5 difference in any one stat value). Honestly there's probably a ton of situations where a level 99 vs 100 is no difference (same 2HKO chance on key targets for example), but why be level 99 when you could just be level 100... aside from the reasons mentioned in the video obviously
I've never heard of the Chansey one until this video! Fascinating.
Chansey using Heal Block before it was cool.
Kind of interesting how they're almost all pivot/momentum related
I love Level 85 Chansey because it exemplifies what makes RBY OU so fun and funny:
Elevating Gen I glitches (of which there is *a ton*, like I almost wanna bet a new one is being found right now while I'm typing this) to the status of meta-defining gameplay mechanics.
Hyper Beam, the RBY finishing move par excellence because of its skipped-cooldown glitch. Normal-types accidentally being immune to Paralysis from Body Slam. And the 85 damage Seismic Toss shenanigans.
It's what makes RBY so hilarious yet also weirdly respectable of a metagame.
Crit chance being based on speed is a pretty weird one too, it makes setting up more of a risk because getting a crit ignores your stat boosts as well and not just the enemies.
Hyper beam was intentional, they must’ve changed their minds, honestly Hyper beam would’ve been an incredibly well designed move if it stayed the same
@@XxDannySniperZXxGOB Absolutely. Hyper Beam was perfect as is, it had a purpose. And it was very risky to use, too, adding spice to it. Heck, they should bring RBY Hyper Beam mechanics back in Gen IX, and not just for it but also Frenzy Plant, Roar of Time and so on. That'd rule so much.
Btw., I'm pretty sure it's a glitch considering it was fixed as early as Pokémon Stadium.
@@travisteatime oh, I probably assumed it wasn’t a glitch because it’s like the least glitchiest-glitch in RBY
Pretty sure Normal types being immune to Body Slam paralysis was intentional. It's the same mechanic as to why Poison types can't be poisoned by Sludge, and Fire types can't be burned by fire moves.
I don't know too many examples but how about a list of Pokemon who used the "worse" ability from their available options? e.g. Flame Body Heatran, Light Metal Scizor, Analytic Magnezone?
One i find very interesting is Sylveon opting for Cute Charm in Gen 8 NU because some pokémons use Throat Chop (so moonblast would be prefered to hyper voice) and because it can be decent to proc Cute charm being a switch-in to fighting type moves
I would also mention Sap Sipper Azumarill (back in Gen 7) and maybe Anger Point Krookodile (which was very niche in DLC1 as a counterplay to Urshifu-Dark)
Oooh interesting! Freezai does have a video on why BDSP uses Unaware Clefable instead of Magic Guard, but I’d love to see more examples
Flame Body Heatran is used sometimes to switch into Weavile Triple Axel and try to get a burn.
Freezai made a vid on flame body heatran
I have another example. I used to play gen 7 anything goes, and in there giratina is a common wall to stop primal groudon. The thing is that both giratina and groudon have the same speed, so in some situations groudon can spam stealth rocks until it loses the speed tie (giratina would be spamming defog after using toxic) and get the rocks up, which is super detrimental for stall teams. Because of that, some people started running lvl 99 giratina and ho-oh in order to be able to spam defog after poisoning groudon and always move last, so that groudon would never get the rocks up. I've seen lvl 98 groudons lol
This may be niche but sometimes for 1v1 I would use -99 mons just to get the slight damage roll for a boosted attack that otherwise wouldn't of happened before if I used a 100 mon
A boosted attack for like blaze or overgrow?
What
@@MeNowDealWIthIt pretty much that at times for specific mons but also used it with other high damage one turn set up mons like sylveon where instead of using a more traditional yawn endure set I used a more direct fake tears,hyper beam, hyper voice set with its lower defenses meaning I can get off a fake tears while having low enough hp to use my custap to hyper beam instead of trying to rely on shaky sleep turns. I had a some other sets that also liked to under cut certain mons (Think lvl 99 dragons with haban or aegislash to make sure I let them take a hit first before hitting back.)
The Pyukumuku is really cool in Ubers as well because there you don't have to run lower levels to get the same effectiveness due to the higher power level making it not as telegraphed
Do a list of all the times Pokemon used their less dominant attacking stat. Things like Band Alakazam and Spec Machamp.
Your profile picture makes me think you’re a SomeCallmeJohnny fan.
@@jebronlames987 I actually screenshot a frame of his Cory in the House video and used it for my profile for several years.
Band Zam was a thing in Gen 3 since it also had Trick and Choice Band was the only Choice item back then.
I've done specchamp before. no guard is one hell of a drug.
Pretty sure Nidoking with Sheer Force opts to use Special moves over Physical moves because Earth Power does slightly more damage than Earthquake and Ice Beam does slightly more damage than Ice Punch, and it can bait out Burns.
Great video! Perhaps another interesting idea would be when neutral natures are used in competitive
That's almost never though. There was a bulky av kyurem-b icy wind supporter set in doubles ou that put av in every single stat and even that one got more out of a regular nature than out of a neutral one.
Recently, in the semifinals of the AAA money tour, we got to see level 98 corviknight to, as you might guess, outslow opposing level 99 corviknights, which have become extremely ubiquitous in the meta due to not having many other slow pivots
level 21 FEAR pikachu was really cool. it got endeavour and feint which had higher priority than even extremespeed and went through protect. really sick FEAR strat.
You know the trickroom is bad when people use level *96* pokemon to underspeed opposing pokemon
Now I have a feeling game freak might implement a Pokemon that actively gets lower speed as it levels up, like a negative base speed stat.
Amazingly informative video! It was easy to follow along despite not knowing a ton.
Also, I saw lvl 85 Chansey in gen 1 and _knew_ some bug was afoot. I didn't actually know about the recovery bug specifically, so that's new to me... but I knew there was _a_ bug sneaking around there xD
I think there was an instance in vgc where sometimes someone would use level 49 kyogre/groudon to win the weather war by being slower and thus setting the weather last, I think it was in 2016. There was the same idea in vgc20 betwenn Indedee-f and Rillaboom, both wanting to be slower in order for their terrain to go up. However, nowadays the game autosets the pokemons' levels to 50, so going under for speed purposes is not a possibility anymore.
4:04 lol "sweet spot"
Because it's Slurpuff
Love your vids man, keep up the good work
0:45 The 0 speed slowking still has 31 speed IVs. If they’re trying to outslow other slowking, why wouldn’t they also drop the IVs?
That was just an example, actual slowking would run 0 speed IV
They also drop the ivs
@@hellothere2570 that’s what I figured but I didn’t wanna “Um akshuakly” so I figured I’d ask lol
5:34 "there's actually a bug in generation 1" in a surprised tone is unreasonably funny to me
When it comes to videos we wanna see next, I personally want to see theorymon Thursday return, and my question for it would be what if Paralysis functioned like Frostbite and Burn
I want to see a list of unique Pokémon used in top tier play at tournaments, even if they didn’t win it. And how the competitor used that Pokémon in their matches to their advantage
The variety and quality of your content is very impressive. Keep it up!
If I recall correctly some people used level 49 primal groudon in VGC 2016, so they could underspeed a min speed kyogre and set up their weather.
Remember seeing a level 89 Slowking when the underspeed wars were at their peak.
Summoning salts does timeline videos on speed run scores, and I think it would be interesting to see a similar theme for a competitive cycle of a generation.
I now like your channel even more 👌 Golden nicknames
Id be interested in a video on every viable set that used 252 Atk and 252 Sp Atk on the same set; its such a rare sight that seems scrubby but ive heard its actually been good before like on Dragonite in gen 4
I don't think such an EV spread has ever viably existed as mixed attackers are already quite rare and they wouldn't want to completely gut their speed or bulk when are you're looking for is specific KO ranges.
I tried to look one up on smogon but nothing came up.
I also think that if a Pokémon where the best EV spread is 252 Atk/252 Sp. Atk, that Pokémon would be banned in that tier. If the Pokémon could just invest in attack and special attack, that either means nothing outspeeds it, or it is so bulky or could put up trick room that lack of speed does not matter. It also implies that it has just as good moves that use attack and moves that use special attack, and is versatile to cover whatever.
It also means that for some reason, the Pokémon it is trying to take down are just outside of their range, and could also imply the Pokémon is too weak for that tier as well.
Either way, a Pokémon would not run 252 Atk/252 Sp. Atk, but the reasons would vary.
@@iantaakalla8180I believe abomasnow and volcanion are pretty close
5:43 Lol, what a strategy.
Anyway, neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
Makes sense that a lot of these occurred in Gen 7 where Z-Moves could more than make up for the slight power decrease of a lower level
First time I came across this was definitely vgc. I remember seeing some Groudon run level 49 to guaranteed underspeed Kyogre to make sure Primordial Sun was set, not to mention the benefits in Trick Roomwhich I remember being pretty common. It just seemed so big brained lol.
We take levels for granted since they’re maxed by default but finding ways to game the system and get an edge by underleveling is really cool.
Pretty common in other metas like balanced hackmons. In BH level 98 giratina with core enforcer is used to out slow and apply the ability nullification.
Leave nothing to chance
Use level 1 cofagrigus and always win the speed tie.
Another banger video
Amazing video
Really cool video
I’ve personally used lvl 99 torkaol eruption trick room + orangeru instruct team - thus giving me a huge advantage over other torkoal teams (It was very worth it)!
I know the person is a trusted player when they write off the ratata strategy. It’s never been good
To be fair, there are far better pokemon to run level 1 on than rattata, even then it's really dependant on the matchup, probably the best level 1 is Togedemaru with sturdy + shell bell and
1. Endeavor
2. Spiky Shield
3. Fake Out
4. Toxic/Nuzzle
Endeavor is self-explanatory , Spiky Shield finishes off pokemon that only have contacting moves for damage, Fake out with shell bell heals off the 1 HP of stealth rock damage so you can be at full for sturdy and toxic/nuzzle is to cripple ghost types on the switch
The issue with this and all level 1s is that you can't switch them into anything (unless leech seed is up and no hazards on your side) and even once they're in, it's often a 50/50 between endeavoring what they have out and statusing the incoming ghost type
The weather legends are good examples from doubles. You want your weather ability to trigger after your opponent's so it overwrites your opponent's weather. Granted I've only heard of groudon doing it but I imagine people experimented with kyogre.
It was thing in vgc,not in singles
The two standard use cases seem to be screwing with speed (particularly with switch moves and Trick Room) and screwing with the HP bar (things like Pyukumuku and Gen 1 Chansey). Anything that's weirder than that?
even the FEAR strat is just that idea taken to the extreme
Could we get a list of times when the lowest tier of pokemon (PU, NU, RU depending on the generation) contained pokemon with a niche in OU? Like how Gastrodon could occasionally be seen despite being a lower tier mon.
It usually is there to check/counter a water type (usually special attackerk like kyogre
Creative topic!
Gen 7 Level 1 Mimikyu for trick room in doubles, potential sash for near guaranteed Trick Rooms or Ghostium Z for Z-Destiny Bond which redirected attacks
one cool one is level 99 trick room Dialga in DPP Ubers
normally Dialga is outsped by Scizor under trick room, even with Quiet and 0 speed IVs, but level 99 is just enough to get it to underspeed Scizor and smack it with a fire move
shoutouts FEAR, gotta be one of my favorite gimmicks
For a while in XY I ran Large Gourgeist instead of Supersize because of the bit of extra speed, playing slightly off meta earned me a fair bit of cheese
Take a shot every time Freez says Cofagrigus.
Just got the best idea for AAA corvnight u-turn
Give me a video documenting uses of a choice item in conjunction with non damaging moves
Ie. Scarf t-wave/rocks/trick or band/specs with trick or whatever else
Por favor
Level 49 Primals cme to mind, since Groudon doesnt lose terribly much in stats from one level, but gains the ability to set weather vs other weather mons easier and is faster than the mirror in trick room
Magic coat + sticky web + sash + endeavor was evil thank you for that information
That Chansey tech is the most outlandish gen 1 nonsense I've heard yet.
Based freezai video
Seeing level 9X exeggutor in gen7 was one of the most clever strategies I've seen in a video game.
Every time Lv 49- Pokémon were used in VGC next?
omg, 7:50 that's from t6t tournament! :-o
I love how most of the list is either being slower or taking more damage, and then there's Gen 1 being a broken glitchy mess that people don't wanna fix "because it's how the cartridge is!"
Imo, the examples like the chansey are so much more interesting. Underspeeding in a mirror to get switch initiative, or outspeed under trick room are far to obvious to actually be interesting
The year is 20XX
Everyone uses level 1 Quiet Cafagrigus with 0 speed IVs...
Lol the footage at the end is from temps 3k tourney
The footballer nicknames will never not be goated
3:40
How Slurpuff used two move in a row without Arceus attacking before? It happened a lot of times in this video with other Pokémon
Unburden. After sash disappeared, it doubled it's speed.
And as expected, half of those were suicide leads and the other half were just abusing Trick Room. And then there's a way to exploit the duct tape spaghetti code that is Pokemon RBY.
How about a list of unevolved pokemon instead of their evolved forms being used?
I mean that would basically be boiled down to "because Eviolite".
While Chansey is blisteringly obvious, there's something interesting to be said about Porygon2 against Porygon-Z
Another Pokemon video, another gen 1 bug I've never heard of.
How about a video on NFEs used that aren't just evolite abusers (or totally different like Scyther/Scizor)?
Or Porygon2, which is both an eviolite abuser AND totally different
Surprised to see no mention of Ditto. In a Ditto ditto, the slower one will transform first, and the other one's transformation will fail, meaning the one who transformed gains 5 PP, while the other one keeps all their Transform PP, meaning the faster one will struggle first and lose
I guessed that chansey was about seismic toss (well I mean it wasn't that hard tbf) but wow that's a weird gen 1 quirk
A little jank if a mon ever takes other damage, just wondering if chansey is the best tosser for the job. Esp since it loses so much
Additionally, people used level 99 (or 49 for the vgc format) amoonguss (haha funny sus imposter) to outspeed in trick room, being 1 point lower
Marcus rashport teleport, i got the reference
Level 96 puyku is a classic
Pokemon swsh vgc 2022 s12 WC is here
Let's goooo😄😄
sonic: why wouldn't you go fast?!
Yay your finally pronouncing cofagrigus' name right so it doesnt sound like a slur!!! Wooot
"Con este dedito"
-Chansilla
Nadie entenderá la referencia xd
the nickname on the Hoop-Unbound...why
I guess this is partly why VGC keeps all Pokemon locked to Lvl 50
I'm gonna use level 80 slowking for laughs
Bro why does the Pokémon on the thumbnail look like its out of bloons tower defense
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ITS PYUKU
Today I learned lvl 85 Chansey is the true pokemon devil lol
Wait for the level 10 meta
I thought VGC for doubles is set at lvl 50 and no way to change it. Am i wrong about this?
Had to leave a like for the Marcus rashort nickname. I assume that’s a man United reference
Rashport*
Ive played hundreds of rby games and have never seen lvl 85 chansey
There is the amoongus in VGC too
You forgot to mention pokeaim's level 83 pyukumuku that was guaranteed to die to scarf lele and not kill it with innards out in return
What about the lagging tail, it makes sure you always move last in your priority bracket
I believe TR doesn’t reverse that, even though it doesn’t change priority brackets.
Join the server its actually a pretty nice place
Moves no longer used in competitive, how scald replaced surf?