Great video, very informative! I'm sure many people who didn't watch this video will ask on the forums why their tank lights are on, or why the totalizer keeps going up and down :)
Jeez I love how complicated DCS is :D It's so fun and satisfying to learn all the systems of these amazing jets. The F-4E is such a rewarding craft so far! The wait was so worth it. Thank you for your guides and for sharing your intimate knowledge of this beast.
Was in the DCS Phantom the other day an took a round to one of the rearmost tanks. Ditched stores and turned for home, and it was cool to see the gauge stop dropping once that tank emptied. Didn't know about the tape. Glad I watched this detailed tour - thanks!
Thank you, excellent in depth fuel tutorial, I’m going to go back over this a few times for it to sink in, I’m old, and always been thick,lol. But it amazes me that aircrew flew this successfully in combat ,as well as operating the various systems. You see why pilots only fly one aircraft in a tour, you’re have to be able to do all this with your up eyes closed…mind boggling.
Nice job DT. I’m glad they let you preview the Phantom. It’s looks like it will be a great learning experience. The Phantom was what I wanted to fly when I was a kid. I remember seeing the Blue Angels flying Phantoms. They were so cool, big and powerful.
tx so much for this, at the moment i really think this is the best looking Jet ever produced in Virtual aircraft Simulators, including All, i never seen nothing like it, and i have it all, from DCS , Xplane or MSFS, Heatblur just have done in my opinion the most realistic Cockpit i ever seen, im loving to fly it, feels like a big heavy Cadillac, you can feel it some how while flying it. Now my "problem" is to find and map the most needed stitches to my warhog, this plane have literally thousands of them.
With your in depth background knowledge of the Phantom, guess your in your element with this new DCS release 😎 Looks a bit complex for my simple brain 🤣
Ok NOW I understand how external tanks work. Reading the manual, it wasn't making sense to me. I learn better when I see it done. (I don't understand why I have that issue but I have to watch and do it myself before the manual makes sense to me. Same issue when I was learning to fly for real. None of the books made sense until i did it, observed it, then went back to read it it made sense. Dunno.) Also I now know how to jettison fuel tanks LOL. Same issue, read it and didn't understand what I did wrong but watching it now, it all makes sense. Thanks for the video! Learned A LOT!
Glad you enjoyed it! For the afterburn fuel consumption not being shown of the fuel flow gauges, it's not unusual. The Tomcat didn't either, as well as the Hornet.
Thanks for the video, you were very good at explaining and clarified many doubts for me. I hope you do more tutorials on the various systems, congratulations!!
Well done! clear concise and in depth just to what you should need and remember. I am realizing that this is a handful and if you can master this, you can master them all, lol!
Easy peasy. Both engines feed from # 1-and EVERYTHING else transfers to it. Hence the reason #1 is AKA the feeder tank. Let's see if I can remember the sequence : ya burned the wings first-to make room for the externals-then ya moved the externals to the wings. Then everything moved to the fuselage tanks. System was pressurized with-if I recall again correctly-8th. stage customer service air. #1 had both electric & hydraulic pumps to move the jet juice to the J-79's-the hyd. actuated pumps were there in case of total electrical failure-which was not that uncommon in the Phantom. They were powered by the Utility system. Memories................
I get that the back seat is busy but I never understood why they wouldn't give the WSO a fuel gauge. It seems like it would have been a quite simple thing and would help the crew stay on top of it.
so might it be a good idea to bring either just a centerline external tank or just the wing external tanks so you dont have to use the triangle switch multiple times to start the feed? so you can just flick the switch at the start of your sortie and let it feed the fuselage tanks until the external tanks are empty and then you can drop em (or bring em home ;D)
Did the US ever get an improved centerline tank? The Japanese Phantoms got what they called a "high-G tank" which they flew with the majority of the time, instead of using two wing tanks.
Yes, there were several centerline tanks used. The one made by Royal Jet (600 gallons) was not good and you couldn’t pull more than 3 G’s with it loaded. The high performance tank was 610 gallons and also used on the F-15
First all thanks for this great video. Second a question: external tanks will refuel while AAR indipendend which setting the external fuel tank switch has? So eather set to off, centerline or wing tank, all will get fueled up?
That is correct. Opening the refuel door will depressurize the tanks and open the transfer valves so that all tanks can get filled. The one exception to this is if you open the red guarded refuel select switch on the fuel panel and set that to internal only.
I would say that you don't know how lucky you are to have a Phantom in your garage, but I think you do. If someone showed you a Lamborghini in their garage, you have every amount of clout to say "mine can go faster" 😅
so the tape is cells 1-6 in the fuse ONLY. and the number is the total fuse and internal wing tanks. external tanks have no gauges so keep an eye on the totalizer. also the external tanks feed the internal fuse NOT internal wing. so basically the engines are fed from int fuse 1, the other fuse tanks feed tank 1. the internal wing and external wing tanks feed fuse tanks only and dont interact with each other, is that correct? sounds more complicated than it is if thats correct
You just summed it up perfectly! One thing I did not mention is that the fuel in cell 7 does not transfer until the automatic fuel transfer system activates when you get low on fuel.
Yes, that is how both DCS and the real aircraft work. Only one source can feed up to the fuselage tanks at a time, selected by the External Transfer switch. You'll see both the totalizer and the fuselage tank tape on the gauge move up as the tanks transfer fuel up, but only until the fuselage tanks are full (about 7.3 on the tape).
can you clarify the stores and jettison deal? No matter what stations I have selected, jettisoning stores jettisons absolutely everything except for the Sparrows. How do you only drop the center tank or only drop the wing tanks?
Sounds like you are using the Emergency Stores Jettison button over on the left vertical panel. That button will drop everything that isn't a Sparrow or Sidewinder. Selective jettison is done with the knob just below the missile status panel. Select the stations you want to jettison on the pylon selector, rotate the knob to the STORES position (4 clicks in either direction from OFF), then push the red button located in the middle of that same knob. After the store is gone, rotate the knob back to off and deselect the pylon. This process is near identical to that in the Hornet, both aircraft being McDonnell Douglas products.
@@DieselThunderAviation no, that's not what I'm doing. I eventually found the issue. The explanation in your video (and here), including the online manual, both skip an important step: The weapon select also has to be set to C, otherwise, regardless of what pylons are selected, if the weapons select is turned to TV for example, all Mavs or TV guided bombs will be jettisoned as well. This is what the manual says for dropping the wing tanks: "As example, to jettison the right and left external fuel tanks, the pilot must select STORES on the knob, press the corresponding station select buttons LO, RO and then push the jettison button." It is wrong.
Not recommended for that at all. The autopilot won't account for speed, and it would have to keep up with thrust inputs, if it would at all. Also lacks the precision needed to stay in position .
The ball is a tricky one too, happy they added the overlay for that. Depending on what I’m flying I tend to ignore the lights and focus more on maintaining the visual picture for position. All I can do in the A-10 since you can’t even see the lights 😁
I am a boom operator on the 135. The lights are hard to see, especially when sunny. Often times the receivers will even ask if they are on because they can’t seem them.
If I may, are these wet tanks or dry? I understand the external fuel tanks, but most military jets Ive worked on were wet, but I cant imagine putting a rubber lining in these fuel cells...pain in the dick doing that in a King Air, but if I had to do it in an F-4 Id probably want to unalive myself first.
The fuel indicating system on the F-4 is... garbage. Not sorry. I am surprised it was not upgraded over the years. The fuel distribution system is logical and nothing out of the ordinary. I hate the boom. The basket gives me no problem, but that boom, man.
Yeah, kinda surprising they never improved the fuel gauge, or even added a totalizer in the backseat. Boom is harder, I agree. Nice thing is you don’t have to spend as much time on it as the transfer rate is higher.
@@DieselThunderAviation I thought I misheard when he said there was no totalizer in the back and I didn’t check before I commented. I thought there was no way this could be, since fuel is one of the most important factor. Oh well now I know why he’s asking once in a while.
Great video, very informative! I'm sure many people who didn't watch this video will ask on the forums why their tank lights are on, or why the totalizer keeps going up and down :)
Thank you! Doing what I can to help everyone have an enjoyable launch day and take some of the mystery out of this aircraft’s systems. 🙂
Really cool to learn details about how fuel runs in these things, never knew how it exactly worked and now I've learned some. Nice video!
You just saved me hours of reading and understanding the manual
My pleasure, glad it helped!
Jeez I love how complicated DCS is :D It's so fun and satisfying to learn all the systems of these amazing jets. The F-4E is such a rewarding craft so far! The wait was so worth it. Thank you for your guides and for sharing your intimate knowledge of this beast.
Was in the DCS Phantom the other day an took a round to one of the rearmost tanks. Ditched stores and turned for home, and it was cool to see the gauge stop dropping once that tank emptied. Didn't know about the tape. Glad I watched this detailed tour - thanks!
Awesome seeing how the fuel boost pumps don't just both have the same exact perfect value.
And it can vary as well from flight to flight!
Thank you, excellent in depth fuel tutorial, I’m going to go back over this a few times for it to sink in, I’m old, and always been thick,lol. But it amazes me that aircrew flew this successfully in combat ,as well as operating the various systems. You see why pilots only fly one aircraft in a tour, you’re have to be able to do all this with your up eyes closed…mind boggling.
Thank you for the very detailed look at the F-4 fuel systems. Very interesting to hear about the lack of fuel flow indication for afterburner ops.
My pleasure, glad you found it helpful! Not showing burner flow isn’t uncommon unfortunately, both the Tomcat and Hornet don’t meter it either.
Nice job DT. I’m glad they let you preview the Phantom. It’s looks like it will be a great learning experience. The Phantom was what I wanted to fly when I was a kid. I remember seeing the Blue Angels flying Phantoms. They were so cool, big and powerful.
tx so much for this, at the moment i really think this is the best looking Jet ever produced in Virtual aircraft Simulators, including All, i never seen nothing like it, and i have it all, from DCS , Xplane or MSFS, Heatblur just have done in my opinion the most realistic Cockpit i ever seen, im loving to fly it, feels like a big heavy Cadillac, you can feel it some how while flying it. Now my "problem" is to find and map the most needed stitches to my warhog, this plane have literally thousands of them.
Just an excellent guide!!! Thank you so much!
With your in depth background knowledge of the Phantom, guess your in your element with this new DCS release 😎
Looks a bit complex for my simple brain 🤣
Ok NOW I understand how external tanks work. Reading the manual, it wasn't making sense to me. I learn better when I see it done. (I don't understand why I have that issue but I have to watch and do it myself before the manual makes sense to me. Same issue when I was learning to fly for real. None of the books made sense until i did it, observed it, then went back to read it it made sense. Dunno.)
Also I now know how to jettison fuel tanks LOL. Same issue, read it and didn't understand what I did wrong but watching it now, it all makes sense. Thanks for the video! Learned A LOT!
Really great instruction, you made the fuel system very easy to understand, thanks for the hard work!
That is more interesting than I thought! I bet people will report the lack of increase of fuel flow in afterburner as a bug :D
Glad you enjoyed it! For the afterburn fuel consumption not being shown of the fuel flow gauges, it's not unusual. The Tomcat didn't either, as well as the Hornet.
Thanks for the video, you were very good at explaining and clarified many doubts for me. I hope you do more tutorials on the various systems, congratulations!!
Thank you, glad you found it helpful! Certainly do plan on making more of these!
Thanks man! This information will certainly be useful when simmers get to fly this beast! Nicely explained.
Well done! clear concise and in depth just to what you should need and remember.
I am realizing that this is a handful and if you can master this, you can master them all, lol!
Thank you for your work, very interesting!
Awesome! Very interesting stuff. I envy you for knowing this beast so well. Hope to see more content like this.
Great video, well presented, and very clear instructions 👍
Easy peasy. Both engines feed from # 1-and EVERYTHING else transfers to it. Hence the reason #1 is AKA the feeder tank.
Let's see if I can remember the sequence : ya burned the wings first-to make room for the externals-then ya moved the externals to the wings. Then everything moved to the fuselage tanks. System was pressurized with-if I recall again correctly-8th. stage customer service air.
#1 had both electric & hydraulic pumps to move the jet juice to the J-79's-the hyd. actuated pumps were there in case of total electrical failure-which was not that uncommon in the Phantom. They were powered by the Utility system.
Memories................
Thanks a lot... Very well explaned , love learning all those details about the Phantom . 😊❤
Awesome lecture! Can’t wait for more.
Glad you enjoyed it! Working on both the electrical system and the hydraulic/pneumatic system next.
Great explanation of the system, thanks
I get that the back seat is busy but I never understood why they wouldn't give the WSO a fuel gauge. It seems like it would have been a quite simple thing and would help the crew stay on top of it.
I agree! I’d like to think that it wouldn’t have been hard to add. At least a totalizer like the Tomcat has.
Great video, thanks for your insights, really interesting to hear. Were you sat there with a screwdriver and multimeter just in case? 😉
Great guide! Can't wait for the rest :D
so might it be a good idea to bring either just a centerline external tank or just the wing external tanks so you dont have to use the triangle switch multiple times to start the feed?
so you can just flick the switch at the start of your sortie and let it feed the fuselage tanks until the external tanks are empty and then you can drop em (or bring em home ;D)
Awesome video! Thanks for the explanation!
Great vid man! Thanks!
Excellent video!
Did the US ever get an improved centerline tank? The Japanese Phantoms got what they called a "high-G tank" which they flew with the majority of the time, instead of using two wing tanks.
Yes, there were several centerline tanks used. The one made by Royal Jet (600 gallons) was not good and you couldn’t pull more than 3 G’s with it loaded. The high performance tank was 610 gallons and also used on the F-15
Amazing, thank you.
My pleasure, glad you enjoyed it!
Very interesting, thank you.
First all thanks for this great video. Second a question: external tanks will refuel while AAR indipendend which setting the external fuel tank switch has? So eather set to off, centerline or wing tank, all will get fueled up?
That is correct. Opening the refuel door will depressurize the tanks and open the transfer valves so that all tanks can get filled. The one exception to this is if you open the red guarded refuel select switch on the fuel panel and set that to internal only.
@@DieselThunderAviation thanks for your reply ❤
thanks buddy huge help !
Glad it helped!
Really interesting stuff
For me aerial refueling became a lot easier once I got VR
I haven't tried that in VR (don't have it) but can see how the significantly improved depth perception and 1:1 head movement helps!
Jester wheel with track ir is amazing
With a name like diesel i cant think of anybody better to talk about the fuel
10:36 even the chin strap to ur helmet is slightly swaying back and forth. Talk about detail
Best channel obviously :)
Love me a Dash - 60 ❤
I would say that you don't know how lucky you are to have a Phantom in your garage, but I think you do. If someone showed you a Lamborghini in their garage, you have every amount of clout to say "mine can go faster" 😅
That was awesome, thank you
this is going to be so useful!
Awesome!
Thanks that helps alot :)
this is great content, thanks for making it
Thank you.
so the tape is cells 1-6 in the fuse ONLY. and the number is the total fuse and internal wing tanks. external tanks have no gauges so keep an eye on the totalizer.
also the external tanks feed the internal fuse NOT internal wing.
so basically the engines are fed from int fuse 1, the other fuse tanks feed tank 1. the internal wing and external wing tanks feed fuse tanks only and dont interact with each other, is that correct?
sounds more complicated than it is if thats correct
You just summed it up perfectly!
One thing I did not mention is that the fuel in cell 7 does not transfer until the automatic fuel transfer system activates when you get low on fuel.
Great Video!
Hello, what is the function of the AAR button on the Stick? Besides Sidewinder and Mavericks uncage? Is called AAR but seems to do nothing during AAR?
When you are connected on the boom and taking fuel, pushing that button will immediately stop the fuel transfer and disconnect you from the boom.
@@DieselThunderAviation Thanks, makes sense now as it's called "AAR Disengage" actually.
12:15, is that modelled in game? I’m not sure I’m getting it to work that way if it is.
Yes, that is how both DCS and the real aircraft work. Only one source can feed up to the fuselage tanks at a time, selected by the External Transfer switch. You'll see both the totalizer and the fuselage tank tape on the gauge move up as the tanks transfer fuel up, but only until the fuselage tanks are full (about 7.3 on the tape).
Good luck
Pretty interesting.
can you clarify the stores and jettison deal? No matter what stations I have selected, jettisoning stores jettisons absolutely everything except for the Sparrows. How do you only drop the center tank or only drop the wing tanks?
Sounds like you are using the Emergency Stores Jettison button over on the left vertical panel. That button will drop everything that isn't a Sparrow or Sidewinder. Selective jettison is done with the knob just below the missile status panel. Select the stations you want to jettison on the pylon selector, rotate the knob to the STORES position (4 clicks in either direction from OFF), then push the red button located in the middle of that same knob. After the store is gone, rotate the knob back to off and deselect the pylon. This process is near identical to that in the Hornet, both aircraft being McDonnell Douglas products.
@@DieselThunderAviation no, that's not what I'm doing. I eventually found the issue. The explanation in your video (and here), including the online manual, both skip an important step: The weapon select also has to be set to C, otherwise, regardless of what pylons are selected, if the weapons select is turned to TV for example, all Mavs or TV guided bombs will be jettisoned as well. This is what the manual says for dropping the wing tanks: "As example, to jettison the right and left external fuel tanks, the pilot must select STORES on the knob, press the corresponding station select buttons LO, RO and then push the jettison button." It is wrong.
What step is that?
@@DieselThunderAviation The weapon selector
That’s odd. That knob shouldn’t be involved for jettison.
Thanks!
Wow
Steep learning curve, for sure 😁.
Indeed! She's a very hands on aircraft!
What mod are you using to inspect the aircraft and have a character outside?
Not sure what you mean by character, but for various external shots I just use the camera controls within DCS.
@@DieselThunderAviation i mean in the first seconds of the video… ☠️
Once you've locked on in AAR, could you flip the autopilot switch to maintain the connection?
Not recommended for that at all. The autopilot won't account for speed, and it would have to keep up with thrust inputs, if it would at all. Also lacks the precision needed to stay in position .
@@DieselThunderAviation Ah, thanks for saving me some major hassles by the sound of it! 🙏 Love the channel btw!
amazin!
i hate that tanker in dcs. i cant see the damn lights
Yeah, I’d like for ED to improve the lights on the tanker. I had an easier time seeing them at 1080p than I do now at 4K.
@@DieselThunderAviation i literally cant see them (or the ball) in vr lol
The ball is a tricky one too, happy they added the overlay for that. Depending on what I’m flying I tend to ignore the lights and focus more on maintaining the visual picture for position. All I can do in the A-10 since you can’t even see the lights 😁
@@DieselThunderAviation iv never once seen the ball. i turned the flols off and cant switch it back on lol. i just use the needles in the tomcat now
I am a boom operator on the 135. The lights are hard to see, especially when sunny. Often times the receivers will even ask if they are on because they can’t seem them.
If I may, are these wet tanks or dry? I understand the external fuel tanks, but most military jets Ive worked on were wet, but I cant imagine putting a rubber lining in these fuel cells...pain in the dick doing that in a King Air, but if I had to do it in an F-4 Id probably want to unalive myself first.
That’s a great question. I don’t have the answer, but I can ask Crew Chief Al this weekend about it. 🙂
The fuel indicating system on the F-4 is... garbage. Not sorry. I am surprised it was not upgraded over the years. The fuel distribution system is logical and nothing out of the ordinary. I hate the boom. The basket gives me no problem, but that boom, man.
Yeah, kinda surprising they never improved the fuel gauge, or even added a totalizer in the backseat. Boom is harder, I agree. Nice thing is you don’t have to spend as much time on it as the transfer rate is higher.
@@DieselThunderAviation I thought I misheard when he said there was no totalizer in the back and I didn’t check before I commented. I thought there was no way this could be, since fuel is one of the most important factor. Oh well now I know why he’s asking once in a while.
Thanks!
Thanks!!!