I feel this. My husband is a big law attorney. Most days he’s going to bed between 4-6am and up at 8:30am. And then there will be like one day where he can get 7hours of sleep. Our lives don’t feel normal. He works most evenings. Even though we both wfh it feels like we will never be able to have a routine because a partner will shoot an email at 8pm and need it done before the other time zone wakes up or want it done by morning. I’m worried about the long term affects of his health and if it’s always going to be like this. It just doesn’t seem sustainable.
What’s the point? He could die tomorrow and he will have spent day in and day out just working. What a waste of a life. Never enjoying nature. Friends. Family. Movies. Food. All the money in the world isn’t worth it. How are you supposed to have a fulfilling relationship if he’s always just working himself to exhaustion. For what? For a partner? For a boss?
You sound smart. Because you actually see what it is. Either your husband will stay mentally centered, and avoid this toxic stuff (toxic for himself and ultimately his work quality, and probably also for home life) or he will never figure it out. The smart ones are able to get out of it. The slightly less smart ones never stop overworking, and ultimately they are either fired or they die. Best wishes to you both.
@@DancingDeity in a nutshell they are a method of using a search engine effectively by using keywords and speech marks and other markers to narrow down search results to exactly what you are looking for. The associate should have used Google to look up how to do search terms. Instead she kept asking her colleague, like she didn't have a job of her own to do!
I used to intern at a biglaw, the junior asso part freaked me out tho. I was the terrible junior person. Sincere apologies to my supervising attorneys for depriving them of sleep they were entitled to.
i just started working in a business role for big law.... the junior associates can really get unbelievable at times. glad you're freee! i'm counting the days till i am free toooo.
@@user-ug5xq7tx3g I'm assuming that they aren't a lawyer as they mentioned they work in a business role. Maybe an office manager or something of the sort.
I’m currently in a smaller firm. Sometimes I tell myself I need to give big Law a try. Every time I see your videos I’m like NOPE! We’re good in a smaller firm forever lol
Well you have to put your time in to be successful, you can’t be rich without working hard, doesn’t matter what occupation or pathway. Everything requires hard work
@@Aditya-wg3lp being rich means different things for different ppl. 8 would k!LL myself if I had to live like this. Having money is useless if u don’t have any time to use it
@@ReviewMMA710 of course, people can have different monetary goals but there’s no such thing as easy money unless you are breaking the law(even that is not so easy). Im not saying that you should work you life off but you shouldn’t expect to be a millionaire or even have 6 figure income if you are not willing to work for it
nah i wanna become one still :/ I kinda like the struggle and pain im still in school but love to do homework till late at night despite not enjoying it. the flex feels cool , the pay is gud, and ugh the job seems fun
Remember this comment when you look back on the lack on accomplishments or bills are due or a emergency expense and remember it was no one’s fault but your own that you weren’t in the financial position
Completely feel this. As a banker have had many 3-5am nights cranking out some inane ask from a senior. Worst thing is he often won’t read it until the next evening even though he asked for it that morning…
When I graduated from Columbia Law in 1991 I strongly considered going to a big corporate law firm. Instead I went to The Legal Aid Society, and after 7 years, went solo. I mostly represent poor people and children as assigned counsel in Family Court. I've made probably millions less than I would have made. But I've done something I believe in, and I've controlled my own life (to a degree). Yes, I do emails and work on payment vouchers late at night sometimes, but it doesn't feel like work because I decide when to do it.
I'm starting the 7 year journey to becoming a lawyer soon; I just got accepted into uni and am starting in a couple months but I'm still trying to decide what area to specialize in. Do you mind describing what public interest law entails? Like what sector is that specifically/are you working as a DA or prosecutor??
I'm commenting super late here but I can totally understand why you left. There's no way you could ever live a happy and fulfilling life this way. Also, every time I watch your videos I'm reminded why law school and being an attorney just isn't meant for me. Not that I necessarily could have even made it to a "big law" firm but regardless I think my path is elsewhere. Glad you've moved on and decided to pursue what you truly want out of life! 💚
Don’t be so mean to the junior associate! He’s trying! Trying teaching him how to do it right instead of telling him he did wrong, so he knows what to do next time and which is beneficial for the both of you!
@@abdulal-shaikh648 my first year I got the worst manager in the firm and it hurt my performance even though I had a stellar reputation before hand and placed on the best clients because of that - don’t get in your head and focus. Know your self worth.
@@kevinzhang6623 I was unfortunately thrown to the wolves with no guidance whatsoever, just basically “do the work”. Literally no one reviewed my work, it was just sent to the clients. So yes, it’s a pain to babysit the juniors but I did it probably way too much anyway (I’m solo now and don’t have any) because I didn’t want anyone feeling as overwhelmed and anxious as I did 😅…still…when a junior asks you how to turn a word document into a pdf you do tend to wonder…
This is what I don't get. The memo was already late. Why rush and sacrifice your sleep to try and send it at 5am? It's still late. You could have scheduled to finish it in the morning the next day and notify recipients it wont be ready until then. You also made the choice of doing the job for him instead of taking this as a learning opportunity for him. Why hire juniors then? Doing this imo does not make you a good employee.
it wasn’t late to the client yet. it was late getting to me. i sacrificed sleep so that we could get the draft to the client in time. juniors are there to help but when they don’t deliver, it’s up to the seniors to fix things and for the clients for never know that anything went amiss
I’m not a big law attorney. But even in my company, we can’t simply tell clients we’re late or can’t deliver it on-time etc. Even with management, they don’t care who does the job as long as they get completed on time and without errors. Whoever gets assigned the intern/junior associate needs to take responsibility for him/her.
@@CeceXie when I worked in Big Law, which was many moons ago, you had ZERO time to yourself, so consider yourself lucky that you can take an hour or two break to workout.
Seems like everyone I see from New York is an anxious wreck, which helps them be productive, selfish, and not have to be part of a community where they might have to face what they really are.
She gives me vibes of someone U wud never want as Ur boss she wud be rude demanding and nothing wud ever be good enough for her. She wud be nice to senior staff and ppl who can help her step up but to ppl junior to her she wudnt give them the time of day
@@CeceXie actually it’s uncommon. I’m in big law too. A lot partners don’t do it because they actually sleep too. I’ve noticed that it really happens when a US-based partner has a lot of international clients or you’re in the middle of trial or a massive fire drill
i’ve known some partners who wake up extremely early and shoot off emails or work really late. i’m not saying it’s common, but i do think it’s not uncommon
@@CeceXie but that’s the nature of being a lawyer. This isn’t just a “big law” issue. It’s misleading and unfair to our colleagues at mid size firms. Our days can be long and sometimes you work late, wake up early because something time sensitive has arisen or you’re on a short deadline - whether you’re at a big firm or small. If a MSJ gets filed and you need to respond, then that means you’re engaging in extensively looking at facts, calling the client, doing research and drafting it quick enough for a client to review and give feedback and that’s on top of all the things you anticipated to get done that day, or that week. Whether you went to an Ivy League school or work “BiG law”, everyone is in the same boat. Let’s stop minimizing our other hardworking and accomplished colleagues. ✌🏼
I wonder if she could check in with the junior associate about the work he has done @ 7 - that way you can redirect and make sure what he did was usable. It is wasting his and your time to have him produce something unusable.
I’m sorry but as a person who asks why for everything, I’d be one of the ones to ask exactly what you didn’t like about what the assistant did and how did you improve on it…Lol
Late to the chat , but really wanted to know how does Biglaw approach/treat leaves/vacation that associates take in their first year of joining the firm ?
@@vittuilutili24 As medical professionals we have our own struggles and actual lives are on the line - quite literally . It can be very stressful. No doubt that “having to get up in the middle of the night to produce 30 page memos of the highest standards after your work day” is challenging and exhausting but how about being on call for days on top of your regular hours and having to think clearly when they wake you up at 2am and you have to make critical decisions that directly impact someone’s life ? Its not like we can make a typo and can say “ups…”. It’s tough and very stressful . Every profession has its own challenges.
Right. Im a business owner with just a bachelors degree, no student loan debt from a full ride, and I touch six figures without having to live like this. This just makes me sad.
If u are SOOOOOO busy, how do u have time to make these TikToks full of disinformation, making yourself look like a victim. If big law associate is sooooo difficult, perhaps you should quit and become a teacher. Teachers, according to lawyers, doctors, etc, are grossly overpaid and underworked...NOT by a long shot! Consider yourself fortunate, that what u inacted are only some of your worst day. Teachers have very bad days EVERYDAY!
You obviously havent worked big law 😂 lets see you starting and finishing a 30-page memo of the highest caliber in the middle of the night, after you work all day
@@lisafiore7081 teaching can be horrendous but not comparable to BL where clients are large corporations and very wealthy individuals, theres a lot of money and prestige at stake and its on you if you blow it. Its a different level of hard than your average hard job.. and you have the best law students (often all-around best students) competing for those positions so even landing a job like that is elusive. Despite the increase in compensation and bonuses the associate turnover rate rose to 23% last year, that should tell you something about how hard that shit is
Wow, as an Attorney myself, that is an unsustainable lifestyle.
I’d be really interested to know what your routine looks like
Please share your routine!
That is not bad tho.
@@birdtj82 ?? 2 hours of sleep is atrocious
@@birdtj82 you've got to be joking?
I feel this. My husband is a big law attorney. Most days he’s going to bed between 4-6am and up at 8:30am. And then there will be like one day where he can get 7hours of sleep. Our lives don’t feel normal. He works most evenings. Even though we both wfh it feels like we will never be able to have a routine because a partner will shoot an email at 8pm and need it done before the other time zone wakes up or want it done by morning. I’m worried about the long term affects of his health and if it’s always going to be like this. It just doesn’t seem sustainable.
My ex husband quit his big law job after a year. Many people leave within 5 years.
In Japan they work like that and die from heart attacks. They basically work themselves to death.
What’s the point? He could die tomorrow and he will have spent day in and day out just working. What a waste of a life. Never enjoying nature. Friends. Family. Movies. Food. All the money in the world isn’t worth it. How are you supposed to have a fulfilling relationship if he’s always just working himself to exhaustion. For what? For a partner? For a boss?
You sound smart. Because you actually see what it is. Either your husband will stay mentally centered, and avoid this toxic stuff (toxic for himself and ultimately his work quality, and probably also for home life) or he will never figure it out. The smart ones are able to get out of it. The slightly less smart ones never stop overworking, and ultimately they are either fired or they die. Best wishes to you both.
Ngl but your husband will literally work himself to an early grave unless you guys firmly search elsewhere or have better work boundaries
That cashier was solid, women helping women in a respectful discreet way
The junior associate needs to find another job. And be assertive with the colleague who keeps asking about search terms. You are not Google.
Yep I learnt this the hard way too
What are search terms?
@@DancingDeity in a nutshell they are a method of using a search engine effectively by using keywords and speech marks and other markers to narrow down search results to exactly what you are looking for.
The associate should have used Google to look up how to do search terms. Instead she kept asking her colleague, like she didn't have a job of her own to do!
Most junior associates are probably like that 😂
@@DancingDeity Boolean terms, generally used for research i.e. CCH, Lexis, Austlii in Aus :)
I used to intern at a biglaw, the junior asso part freaked me out tho. I was the terrible junior person. Sincere apologies to my supervising attorneys for depriving them of sleep they were entitled to.
Did you choose other legal jobs outside of big law?
i just started working in a business role for big law.... the junior associates can really get unbelievable at times. glad you're freee! i'm counting the days till i am free toooo.
@@user-ug5xq7tx3g I'm assuming that they aren't a lawyer as they mentioned they work in a business role. Maybe an office manager or something of the sort.
@@themind.ofaaron they said ‘another associate’, maybe they’re not a junior associate
I’m currently in a smaller firm. Sometimes I tell myself I need to give big Law a try. Every time I see your videos I’m like NOPE! We’re good in a smaller firm forever lol
Its nice bc of the prestige in theory but is it worth the decay of every other enjoyable aspect of our lives?
This is why I refuse to be a lawyer. My parents work like 70hrs a week. It’s sounds like a horrible life.
Well you have to put your time in to be successful, you can’t be rich without working hard, doesn’t matter what occupation or pathway. Everything requires hard work
@@Aditya-wg3lp being rich means different things for different ppl. 8 would k!LL myself if I had to live like this. Having money is useless if u don’t have any time to use it
@@Aditya-wg3lp Work smarter not harder
@@ReviewMMA710 of course, people can have different monetary goals but there’s no such thing as easy money unless you are breaking the law(even that is not so easy). Im not saying that you should work you life off but you shouldn’t expect to be a millionaire or even have 6 figure income if you are not willing to work for it
@@colbyharley9975 you make no sense
I'd rather have an average income and not have to live this lifestyle which neglects your basic needs of sleep... peace... and down time 😭
nah i wanna become one still :/ I kinda like the struggle and pain im still in school but love to do homework till late at night despite not enjoying it. the flex feels cool , the pay is gud, and ugh the job seems fun
Nothing wrong with mediocrity. You could just be more than that.
I’d rather have money
Remember this comment when you look back on the lack on accomplishments or bills are due or a emergency expense and remember it was no one’s fault but your own that you weren’t in the financial position
@@nimanixoreal
Me watching these who wants to go into big law: 👁👄👁
This lifestyle is not sustainable, at least not for me😂
Lol the junior associate thing is relatable in every industry
Sounds awful- no wonder so many people quit biglaw!
We only got one life, don’t forget to live 😊
Completely feel this. As a banker have had many 3-5am nights cranking out some inane ask from a senior. Worst thing is he often won’t read it until the next evening even though he asked for it that morning…
When I graduated from Columbia Law in 1991 I strongly considered going to a big corporate law firm. Instead I went to The Legal Aid Society, and after 7 years, went solo. I mostly represent poor people and children as assigned counsel in Family Court. I've made probably millions less than I would have made. But I've done something I believe in, and I've controlled my own life (to a degree). Yes, I do emails and work on payment vouchers late at night sometimes, but it doesn't feel like work because I decide when to do it.
Yea, I’ve never regretted choosing public interest law. Those golden handcuffs are something serious.
I'm starting the 7 year journey to becoming a lawyer soon; I just got accepted into uni and am starting in a couple months but I'm still trying to decide what area to specialize in. Do you mind describing what public interest law entails? Like what sector is that specifically/are you working as a DA or prosecutor??
Your a natural! I see an academy award in your future! Take Care
I'm commenting super late here but I can totally understand why you left. There's no way you could ever live a happy and fulfilling life this way. Also, every time I watch your videos I'm reminded why law school and being an attorney just isn't meant for me. Not that I necessarily could have even made it to a "big law" firm but regardless I think my path is elsewhere. Glad you've moved on and decided to pursue what you truly want out of life! 💚
I think partners and senior associates forget that they were once the junior associate…
And that the point of their position is that they are supposed to be better and more knowledgeable than the jrs
It's called pay your dues. Then, start your own firm.
I feel like starting your own firm is not the easier route for sure. That’s a lot of work as well
@@K-wx6ki nothing is ez in life. Once it's running well, you make money by making other associates do the work for you.
@@fookbia8875 well hopefully runs well like you said!
Wow you just made me feel a lot better about my upcoming Monday 😎💭☘️💖
Don’t be so mean to the junior associate! He’s trying! Trying teaching him how to do it right instead of telling him he did wrong, so he knows what to do next time and which is beneficial for the both of you!
i met with him afterwards to discuss the changes. i was never mean to him about it
@@CeceXie I’m starting my internship in June and I’m really nervous! I hope my supervisor is really nice and informative!
i hope so too, but there are also a lot of terrible managers out there in the world, so don't let it shake you too much if they're not great!
@@abdulal-shaikh648 my first year I got the worst manager in the firm and it hurt my performance even though I had a stellar reputation before hand and placed on the best clients because of that - don’t get in your head and focus. Know your self worth.
Theres not always time to babysit, Abdul
seen a lot of these types die young with little to no family visiting them on their deathbed because they were so disconnected
I hope you got the the following day off.
This is therapeutic for you, healing. Work on the trauma
No. It’s hell. Stop pretending this is something you aspire to be
The junior associate thing is spot on 😂😂😂😂 honestly it’s just easier and quicker if I do the work from the start
Lol that junior associate was you at some point.
@@kevinzhang6623 I was unfortunately thrown to the wolves with no guidance whatsoever, just basically “do the work”. Literally no one reviewed my work, it was just sent to the clients. So yes, it’s a pain to babysit the juniors but I did it probably way too much anyway (I’m solo now and don’t have any) because I didn’t want anyone feeling as overwhelmed and anxious as I did 😅…still…when a junior asks you how to turn a word document into a pdf you do tend to wonder…
But then you’re missing the point it’s a test to see how well you can LEAD . That’s why y’all don’t make partner.
I would hate to work more after a full work day😅you must be passionate about your job 🙌🏼
that's insane... poor lady
Thank God I left that world, I'm living a more fulfilling life raising my son❤️
I would only last a few days as an attorney.
This is what I don't get. The memo was already late. Why rush and sacrifice your sleep to try and send it at 5am? It's still late. You could have scheduled to finish it in the morning the next day and notify recipients it wont be ready until then. You also made the choice of doing the job for him instead of taking this as a learning opportunity for him. Why hire juniors then? Doing this imo does not make you a good employee.
it wasn’t late to the client yet. it was late getting to me. i sacrificed sleep so that we could get the draft to the client in time. juniors are there to help but when they don’t deliver, it’s up to the seniors to fix things and for the clients for never know that anything went amiss
I’m not a big law attorney. But even in my company, we can’t simply tell clients we’re late or can’t deliver it on-time etc. Even with management, they don’t care who does the job as long as they get completed on time and without errors. Whoever gets assigned the intern/junior associate needs to take responsibility for him/her.
Yeah this is why lawyers make bank.
Wait, you had time to workout??
i always make time to workout and am a firm advocate that you should always do one thing every day for yourself
Queen!! Love this advice
@@CeceXie when I worked in Big Law, which was many moons ago, you had ZERO time to yourself, so consider yourself lucky that you can take an hour or two break to workout.
@@swisstrader want a cookie?
@@Papageorgeo_ chocolate chip please
Not you slept with laptop. No ma’am! Lol😂
Seems like everyone I see from New York is an anxious wreck, which helps them be productive, selfish, and not have to be part of a community where they might have to face what they really are.
7 is a little late. starting that day at 5 and not doing associates work might help.
Do you call your assistant 20 times a day?
Wondering what you would do if your junior associates (worst case scenario, if there are multiple) keep giving you unusable work products?
after giving multiple rounds of feedback and still no success? escalate the issue with the senior or partner
@@CeceXie Thank you!
She gives me vibes of someone U wud never want as Ur boss she wud be rude demanding and nothing wud ever be good enough for her. She wud be nice to senior staff and ppl who can help her step up but to ppl junior to her she wudnt give them the time of day
HECTICCCCCC.
how common is it to get emails at weird times like 3/4/5am in big law?
totally depends on with whom you work, but it's not uncommon, unfortunately
Open email at 7am
@@CeceXie actually it’s uncommon. I’m in big law too. A lot partners don’t do it because they actually sleep too. I’ve noticed that it really happens when a US-based partner has a lot of international clients or you’re in the middle of trial or a massive fire drill
i’ve known some partners who wake up extremely early and shoot off emails or work really late. i’m not saying it’s common, but i do think it’s not uncommon
@@CeceXie but that’s the nature of being a lawyer. This isn’t just a “big law” issue. It’s misleading and unfair to our colleagues at mid size firms. Our days can be long and sometimes you work late, wake up early because something time sensitive has arisen or you’re on a short deadline - whether you’re at a big firm or small. If a MSJ gets filed and you need to respond, then that means you’re engaging in extensively looking at facts, calling the client, doing research and drafting it quick enough for a client to review and give feedback and that’s on top of all the things you anticipated to get done that day, or that week. Whether you went to an Ivy League school or work “BiG law”, everyone is in the same boat. Let’s stop minimizing our other hardworking and accomplished colleagues. ✌🏼
Thats crazy!!!!
I am a teacher and burned out now (thankfully it is June now), if I worked like this I would be even more burned out. How do you survive? 🤕🤕🤕
I wonder if she could check in with the junior associate about the work he has done @ 7 - that way you can redirect and make sure what he did was usable. It is wasting his and your time to have him produce something unusable.
Did not realise it could be this bad.
Those hands tho 🙈
Damn bro.
is that considered success?
That memo thing is reeeeaaaal
So realistic
That’s not that bad if that’s your worst day
She worked from 7a until 4a. What does your worst day look like then?
Well, as a doctor, this was not that bad 🤷🏻♀️
True 😂
Nobody asked
@@gballa9559 nobody cares
I bet she destroyed that junior associate
❤
wow that sounds like my medical residency life, only that you guys get paid about 4 times more lmao
If this is your worst day, I'll take it.
This is literally abuse. I don’t care how much they pay you. What type of system are we creating that the way to get out of the rat race is this?!?!?
I’m sorry but as a person who asks why for everything, I’d be one of the ones to ask exactly what you didn’t like about what the assistant did and how did you improve on it…Lol
If you devide 185K by the hours you put in the hourly pay is = ?
less than $100
Late to the chat , but really wanted to know how does Biglaw approach/treat leaves/vacation that associates take in their first year of joining the firm ?
depends on the firm and your group, but generally firms have systems where you request vacations formally or through informal notice 2 months prior
"People are dying, Kim..."
U r fine
When is your book coming out ?
likely spring 2025-publishing is a long process!
Cecilia is Super girl.
I did some magic to control
You also don't complain about being able to afford over $2K in rent not mortgage but rent. Poor you
You know there are labor laws.
they wouldn’t really be applicable here
Imagine telling that to a lawyer 😅
Sounds like you need a new JA
terrible form on the punches
Honestly ? Sounds like working in healthcare 🤷♀️
Do you have to produce 30-page memos of the highest standards in the miedle of the night after your workday? Lets say its a different kind of hard
@@vittuilutili24
As medical professionals we have our own struggles and actual lives are on the line - quite literally . It can be very stressful. No doubt that “having to get up in the middle of the night to produce 30 page memos of the highest standards after your work day” is challenging and exhausting but how about being on call for days on top of your regular hours and having to think clearly when they wake you up at 2am and you have to make critical decisions that directly impact someone’s life ? Its not like we can make a typo and can say “ups…”. It’s tough and very stressful . Every profession has its own challenges.
You have to sleep 8 hours
You took a job as a slave. That's all. Don't over think it.
Slave work is retail sorry
Isnt that everyday?? Lol, jk
I can’t imagine putting yourself in so much debt for law school just to have this kind of lifestyle after. For only $180k a year too :/
Right. Im a business owner with just a bachelors degree, no student loan debt from a full ride, and I touch six figures without having to live like this. This just makes me sad.
No thank you
Rofl, this isnt even that bad. Also you took way too long to do that research.
If u are SOOOOOO busy, how do u have time to make these TikToks full of disinformation, making yourself look like a victim. If big law associate is sooooo difficult, perhaps you should quit and become a teacher. Teachers, according to lawyers, doctors, etc, are grossly overpaid and underworked...NOT by a long shot! Consider yourself fortunate, that what u inacted are only some of your worst day. Teachers have very bad days EVERYDAY!
You seem extremely uninformed, she left big law some time ago lmao
You obviously havent worked big law 😂 lets see you starting and finishing a 30-page memo of the highest caliber in the middle of the night, after you work all day
@@vittuilutili24 Teachers do the same. The difference, only we get paid peanut shells, parents, administration and the public loathe us.
@@lisafiore7081 teaching can be horrendous but not comparable to BL where clients are large corporations and very wealthy individuals, theres a lot of money and prestige at stake and its on you if you blow it. Its a different level of hard than your average hard job.. and you have the best law students (often all-around best students) competing for those positions so even landing a job like that is elusive. Despite the increase in compensation and bonuses the associate turnover rate rose to 23% last year, that should tell you something about how hard that shit is
Worst is over want to be my gf?