High-End SQ System Walk Around After Tuning Session - Dynaudio Esotar, Audison Thesis, Helix
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- čas přidán 16. 07. 2021
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The American people need peter here in the states. Why because it’s extremely difficult to find someone that truly cares about his craft. He cares so much that even though he didn’t do the install, he wants to make sure that you are getting the best out of your equipment when he is the one doing the tune. Can tell that he’s not just about taking your money and sending you on your way with a tune. His passion bleeds from him so much.
Your right it’s hard to find an installer with passion. I’m in Los Angeles and got a 1st build sql system and the guys talked me out of installing a dsp. How I regret that I let those guys do the install.
@@charleshamilton6177 damn. There are 1-2 good installers in the SoCal area. Audio Systems while out in Montclair is extremely good as their master installer competes and wins in IASCA/MECA stuff often
I'm actually really lucky that here in the Pacific Northwest we have at least five people here that actually do this kind of stuff and I think a few up in Seattle as well.
while in San Francisco there were a few and I mean very few car audio places that actually had a long waiting list for clients to have their vehicles front end but again most of the time the clients were only interested in the output and installing high-ticket items in their vehicle as Automotive jewelry not actual sound quality.
sadly, you make a lot more money flipping out systems than you do doing quality installs.
@@MickeyMishra I understand we have good installers and tuners here in the states. But like I stated, the greater majority of them are good at maybe two different brands of DSP’s. So many of them blow you off cause they don’t have any knowledge on your Choice of equipment. They don’t wanna do it cause they feel it’s not going to be a money maker. Too much time involved with learning a new software.
I’m a automotive tech of almost 19 years. I see so many different makes and models. They all have different engineering electrical and mechanical. Reading data from the scan tool is not always the same. We use three different brands of scanners. If I want to be on top of my field I have to take the time to learn about whatever comes my way.
If a customer ask me about a particular component or system, I always try my best to make sure they understand what’s going on with their vehicle and why it’s doing what it’s doing. The response I get from them afterwards is very rewarding.
@@myboy051 I'm still on the fence about getting Chrysler's drb software to tune and work on my Chrysler vehicles.
it would be neat to see what I could do with the OEM body control module and see if I can make it do some pretty neat things on food up or when starting vehicle.
both of my cars are from 2000 and 2001 so they're PRE canbus. (Thankfully)
I can completely understand the sentiment about learning the different operating systems of the DSP software packages.
I'm still amazed you can get a proper tune in less than a day.
once you get into a workflow that works for you it's not easy to deviate from it.
it's similar to the controversy of people switching operating systems for their personal computers.
it seems strange to me that people prefer not to use a computer these days and would rather do things on their tablet or their phone .
that is completely alien to me.
but you know what they say, with enough money anything's possible.
Man I love my Dynaudio’s. After my purchase I went to a sq show and all I say was focal, morel and other brands. I was like wow I made the wrong purchase. But once installed I’m a happy camper.
Wow the person with passion can talk this deep money aside see his dedication for the craft end result.
If I'm going to UK anytime soon with my transporter I definitly need to stop by:)
Bloody hell that man is a hero 🤣🤣❤
5:00 I dig the anti-rattle ladder
Crazy!
Thanks Peter. I have a T5 and the drivers side null is a pig. Thought it was my tuning as the doors are well deadend and sealed. Cannot tune it out. Feel better knowing it’s the car’s limitations and not my tuning 👍
100% the car and the environment. Check out the previous electric van system i shared, that was awesome!
Hi Peter, we already had a little chat about Dynaudio Esotars 1200 versus Mac Audio Aliante 12 black Ltd. / Phase Linear (Evolution) as a trunk Subwoofer in a long stationwagen in sealed enclosures. I can’t compare these two because no one sells the Esotars in the Netherlands. But you’ve heard and know both off them. The Macs are beautiful and a legend as a sound quality subwoofers. But looking at the Esotars they look on the specs as even better except the Sd as minus an x Max as pro, more linear excursion with less power requirements. Which would you prefer in your trunk if you had an BMW 5 series? I don’t want to make the mistake I made in the past by buying gear which I didn’t heard beforehand. I know you are not keen on questions like this but I would deeply appreciate it if you answered.
I didn’t understand what’s the www site of the owner who makes rails
What about building a box between the two front seats to put mid bass in? Would that be a solution? I was thinking to put my Morels MW9 in the center in F150 instead of the doors.
Midbass has to be stereo, so 1 each side.
I use 1200 esotar in 40l ,with pdx M12
Hello Peter, i bought a Behringer ECM8000 Omnidirectional Measurement Condenser, can you tell me please, what i need to use it with a laptop? Thanks
You’ll definitely need a soundcard to connect it to the laptop, then get the mic calibrated and then learn how to measure. Not a simple path -> 🤞
GREAT INFO!! yet again! excited to get going on my new transit custom DCIV system, similar to this van. Cant decide on Helix dsp or Zappco dsp ?
I currently have the Zapco DSP-Z8IVII installed. I’m about to install the Helix Ultra I purchased about 2 weeks ago. I’m changing out because I need 10 channels and the Zapco DSP-Z8IVII doesn’t have a coax input or a input gain control. I’m not very good at tuning yet. That being said I find that here in the states, it’s very very hard to find someone that will tune the Zapco DSP’s. They all say the software is glitchy and bla bla bla. I just feel they don’t wanna take the time to figure it out. They all know the Mosconi and Helix software, they are all willing to tune them. Peter has been working with the Zapco DSP’s for some time now. He himself said it took some figuring out and what not to work around the quirks of Zapco DSP’s. If I found a good tuner that would work with Zapco, I would have got the Zapco 16ch. Why because I want future proof equipment. Who know if I’m going to use more then 12 channels on my next build. I don’t but I would like to be ready for it.
The Helix software is worth it imo- I was going through a similar decision- I think if you're doing it yourself play with the software in demo mode. If not, whatever your preferred installer prefers
At least i can give online support for the Zapco DSPs, there are already few video on Patreon.
I always say that what matters is the end result. What takes 3hours with Helix may take 5 hours with Zapco, BUT after that you just gotta listen and enjoy, so i can deal with that extra 2 hours.
Center console seems to be perfect spot for a front sub 😄
Not with swivel front seats.
If I'm not wrong thesis are translucent, and it can be backlight it would look amazing. I prefer light in ambience not in front of the dash so if I had thesis Mids on doors. I'd definitely make them lit.
Peter. Do you like the Thesis line from Audison at all or better to go for Acuton? Just need some advice on that aspect before I order one of the two.
1. I don’t really like anything from Audison. You pay high prices cuz of high marketing and there’s just too much issue with their hardware. Speakers are okay, but there are better alternatives for the price.
2. Accuton Automotive is very expensive and it equally requires a installation on the best level. Also, you can’t just buy these speakers and fit them yourself, unless you have proven record of doing it yourself like a competitor and achieving great results or you have to get them installed by an approved shop.
@@pssound9749 thank you!
Audison system, festool tools, this guy got money!😄
The smaller the box is for those subs the more power it will need to drive them. I'd see what it sounds like in a bigger box without having to buy the auddison uno first to save some money. Or buy different subs with different ohm
Those subs are great, very musical and accurate. No point to change them, they just need larger enclosures, there is space for them. Swapping amplifier is way easier.
which one is good for sq and load too. audison thesis vs micro precision z studio
I would worry about the Audison at very very loud levels. The Z Studio can go loud, but it’s not meant to be for mad listening levels.
Any reason why the mid+twt are mounted more to off axis orientation?
I wasn’t the installer, i just tuned it. I even mentioned in the video that i would have selected slightly different aiming, especially for the tweeters, but i could work with it and get good results.
@@pssound9749 oops.. my bad, I didn't pay attention to your speech while watching this video on phone speaker, more over, the speakers, amplifier, DSP are more sexy than your voice. 😁😜
At around 6 minutes you talk about the amps and current draw which you guys measured... Do you have a vid on current draw in amps where it is explained a bit more?
I now just use my ears to set the amp gains preventing clipping and stuff... and on my Zapco mono amp I ran the (12") sub 4 ohm, but its 1 ohm stable so maybe another configuration is better when I am gonna drive my (new to build) 15" IB sub...?
There is one video in the “Secret project” playlist showing system current draw.
@@pssound9749 Thanks Peter, I appreciate it 👌 Greetings from Holland 👍
First question is Current draw from the Amps that is the Commonly referred to as the BIAS of the Amp in the home Audio world. The Amps that RUN in Class A mode are going to have the FETS running at a Much Higher Bias. Therefore since they are always on? They are always drawing power. (Nature of Class A Operation) Class A/B is LOADS much more efficient. As it only works in Class A mode at a VERY low Bias Current therefore you don't have Sonic tradeoffs like you would have with a Class B amp that is never used in Audio Applications anymore unless SPL Amps are considered.
As far as your Gains are concerned? If you want to set them for your Subwoofers?
And you don't have a simple DIY tool (Rockford Fosgate, EMF Audio, Bare Vids, you can always order a SMD DD-1, or get an O scope if you are comfortable with using those .
Look up on CZcams how to set up AMP gains. The ONLY tip I give out is that you do it at BATTERY VOLTAGE. That will give your amps more than enough headroom as most amps have Unregulated power supplies if they have Korean based Boards.
The Better S.Q Amps tend to have Regulated supplies, but not always.
The Simple and CHEAP Piezoelectric speaker trick will work. for 99% of you. I have a DD-1. But I do a bit more than Subwoofers. And I test LOTS of stuff and the ease of use wins out. And I like having a real tool built for the job.
Using a compact O Scope is a great way to see this as well. Its not as great as a Full analog scope, but it works. You can also use your phone with a contraption you can build.
Rule of thumb? HAVE WAY MORE than you need. That way? You don't ever worry about it. I still look at 8 Ohm ratings for these reasons.
@@MickeyMishra Thank you for your extensive answer! I appreciate it. 👍
I know a bit about amps, much more about speakers (I built many for home, including the xo's). I am a pure SQ guy, so I have the right amps and I dont listen very loud. Perhaps the 4 ohm config is still the best at my efficient 15" Sub. But indeed if you want the best out of your system I think its better to see where is the limit. With using my ears and even lower the gains some, I think I was pretty safe before... The SMD is a nice one, but I think I will use a scope now. I know someone who has one or I'll buy a used one. 👌
@@explorinlearnindoing5462 There is NO Better TOOL then an OLD Fully TUBE driven Scope with a CRT. Look up Mr. Carlson Lab. Get a CHEAP Non working unit. Like a Heath Kit. They are DEAD SIMPLE items. If you are an Audiophile? NOTHING will be more useful. They can be had for $20 bucks or less or free.
And an Indians Fav Number is ZERO BTW. (The 7 eleven Kind)
Trust your EARS MAN. There is NO BETTER TOOL.
You want to know my reference? A woman's voice.
Its like DNA man. You KNOW what is sounds like.
Any audible harshness? You can tell even before it shows up on any meter.
Try it. I play a TUBA. Still. the female voice is the most recognizable and easily detectable form of distortion detecting as your ear is literally built for it to tune it out and tune in.
Don't get caught up in all the Wizardry of testing to .001% etc. Trust your ears. Let YOU be the judge.
Till this very day. I can tell what speakers I am listening too. AMps? Not so much. But I do love the Topping AD10 DAC. Man, that thing was a GAME CHANGER! For the First time, I can say without question, THIS IS A REAL CHANGE.
Does not happen often. But when it does?> You are Hooked.
Peter could you please tell me if the Helix Director has the ability to control 2 different amps running subs front and rear.
I have 2 10’s in the back and I am adding a single 10” in the center console/footwell. I currently have a bass knob for the rear subwoofers. I want to be able to control the front and rear subwoofers individually with the turn of a knob. Do I need to run 2 bass knobs or will the Director do it. I’m going from the zapco DSP-Z8IVII to the Helix Ultra.
No, it can only control 1 sub output individually. If you have front sub, then that shouldn’t need adjustment on the go, that should be tuned fix with your midbass & front system and just adjust the rear sub if you want more extension or madness.
If you want more punch with the front sub, then just make a separate preset where the front sub has different settings.
@@pssound9749 thank you so much Peter.😁😊😁😊😁😊😁
@@pssound9749 Again, Thank you Peter. I was looking for a way to send you money but couldn’t find it. So I signed up for the highest tier of your patreon. I have a lot of new videos to watch😁
13:30 I know that feel bro.
15:55 One of the few Car Audio Tuners that understands different DSP presets are crucial for different kinds of music tastes that often have a signature E.Q'ed sound common to the genre.
Gone are the days of a handful of mixing & Mastering / Recording Engineers producing the majority of studio master Tapes is a bygone era.
The joke often repeated in Publications like Mix Magazine (The Mix) was that Sheepfarmer's outnumbered mixing Engineers 10:1. ( _in the United States, Sheep farming is a very Niche occupation with the connotation of Farmers who went right past species & sometimes gender_ )
CDs I like to collect our ones that were actually mastered specifically for the premium car audio system like the Infiniti Q45 (Clarion/McIntosh systems) and of course the Chrysler Infinity systems. (EMIT Tweeters BTW)
The compact discs were purposely mastered for playback in the target vehicle to take advantage of the acoustics essentially mastering for final playback to the cabin space of the car.
there was talks about an automatic DSP system that would calibrate itself to different music environments and situations in the car but I think all that came of it was a loudness circuit that boosted the volume has the speed of the vehicle increased ( _primarily to compensate for the now higher noise floor_)
I remember hearing Mercedes vehicles did this automatically and I think it was available in the Mazda Cosmo. Much later this became a standard feature in most luxury segment vehicles that used *CANBUS* communication protocols ( *Firewire* / _Sony's iLink_ / _IEEE-1394_ -Essentially for automotive/Aerospace applications for serial communications) and Perform This by sensing the speed of the vehicle not the actual noise floor within the cabin / listening area.
when companies were called in to specifically Taylor the stereo systems in manufacturers premium vehicles, companies like BOSE simply opted to use 4-inch drivers inside of large suprisigly rigid GRP plastic enclosures for some Cadillac models simply due to the fact that they could never actually fix any of the problems that were apparent in the automotive environment .
It would have been far too costly to sonically actually address. So using a small driver in a dedicated enclosure albeit, it's limited output with extreme equalisation (something *BOSE* is a Leader in) was the Band-Aid route chosen.
the other being... installing over 25 to 30 speakers *in a vehicle* a strangely common practice not only is marketing effective, but oddly cost effective with some practical acoustical merits.
Quite honestly, it's because it's a lot cheaper to get low powered amplification and decently made mass-market speakers to perform well.
A.K.A. look at Line Arrays.
An old adage of automotive industry is:
"if you can't give them quality , Wow them with quantity!" - (Rumored to be Lee, Iacocca of Chrysler)
mid bass, mid bass, mid bass lol
Question Peter, can you do remote tuning? And do you know/have any recommended installers in Australia?
Remote tuning is tough, so much headache. Not impossible to do improvements, but i can’t see the system, what issues it may have, like in this one: floor noise, gain structure, headroom, rattles, etc.
Unfortunately i don’t know the industry down there and who has all the experience for installation and tuning.
@@pssound9749 All good. Ive heard of a guy down in Sydney (fhrx studios), he appears to be pretty knowledgeable🤔. Another question, do you ship the equipment you sell world wide?
It depends on what it is and if there’s not a distributor of a certain brand you want there already. What are u looking at?
@@pssound9749 A pair of Micro Precsion 5.16 drivers. There is no dealer in Australia afaik.
@@nismofreak33 what SQ brands do you have over there?
👍👍😍❗
Peter why don’t you see Dynaudio any more in sq?
Esotec is used quite a lot, Esotar is difficult to install right in most cars.
@@pssound9749 that’s why I didn’t use Esotar. I would love to use the 110 tweeters and the 430 midrange. Very big tweeters and the mids are highly recommend to be placed in a sealed enclosure.
@@myboy051 mids don’t have to be sealed, midbass has to be.
Very large mid-tweeters, indeed. Most cars have no space for them. It looks like they designed them for home floor standers.
@@pssound9749 I believe in the website it recommends sealing the e430. Says recommend closed box volume of 0,5-4 l. Maybe bookshelf use ? 🤷♂️
Seems that most of my research on the web is saying they are best used in a sealed configuration. Most of the write ups on DIY say sealed also. I bet you seen them used and probably installed a few. You would know much better then I would! Again Peter thank you for all your efforts👍
@@myboy051 you may only want them to be sealed if you want to play them down to silly low, but you don’t need that in a car anyway. Crossing them above 170/200Hz doesn’t need a box, plus usually midrange drivers sound more natural without any compression on the cone, so the more airspace, the better…but what do i know about it vs all the forum members? 🤷🏻♂️😃
Price for 3 way audison speakers
Where do u live?
@@pssound9749 uk
@@ranvijaydhami7246 this 3way is around £2650.