DCS: F-16C Viper | HARM Targeting Update with TDOA
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2023
- NOTE 1. A TDOA member can only contribute if they are not already tracking an emitter with the HTS.
NOTE 2. This works for both single player and multiplayer. When in multiplayer and a Slave, you will get an audio DATA alert.
NOTE 3. Due to complications stemming from our other businesses, we had to adjust datalink terms. In this case, Tactical Net Datalink (TNDL).
NOTE 4. As always, these videos provide a preview of an upcoming feature to assist you in understanding a new feature. Later, it is quite possible that the feature will change, and the feature functionality has changed. As much as I’d like to, I lack the time re-record these videos.
Hey everyone, Wags here from Eagle Dynamics. In this DCS: F-16C Viper video, we’ll build upon the previous video about new datalink features. Namely, the ability to use participating data linked Team members more accurately and quickly pinpoint a threat radar emitter, like a SAM site. This is termed Time Difference of Arrival, or TDOA, and it is only available when each Team member is loaded with a HARM Targeting System, or HTS, pod. There must also be a minimum of three Team members in a TDOA team.
We’re here over the Persian Gulf map in a four-ship, with each member assigned an HTS POD and two AGM-88 HARMS. This is a common Viper SEAD flight in which both elements support each other. Let’s first bring up the Data Link page by selecting LIST from the ICP, then Enter to select Data Link, and Dobber right twice to display the data link assignments of Team members. For a Team member to participate in the TDOA team but must have the “T” enabled next to it. This can be toggled by Dobber up and down to select the Team member and then selecting any keypad 1 to 9 keys to toggle the TDOA selection. All eight Team members can participate in a TDOA network.
From the HAD page, select TM for Team members or AL for all to have all selected TDOA members to participate. If you wish to disable then, select NO.
After designated an emitter by pressing Target Management Switch, or TMS, up while the cursor is over a target, you can then press TMS left for greater than one second to display TDOA on the HUD and command TDOA participant members to designate the same target with their HTS and provide multiple triangulation angles. Note that the target will need to be within the Team member’s HTS field of view.
To provide optimal triangulation, the other element will attempt to approach the target from a different angle than yours.
When TDOA designated, TD-M is indicating that the target has been designated and you are the Master. If in multiplayer and receiving a designation as the Slave, you get a TDOA HUD message and DATA voice message, and once you designate, you’ll see a TD-S on the HAD for Target Designated Slave.
When a TDOA Team member participant is also tracking the target and contributing, it will have a segmented, white line between it and the target. You notice that the Position Quality, PGM, value will attain a high precision, 1 value much faster.
To exit TDOA tracking, press TMS down.
Happy weaseling! - Hry
Finally unlocked the holy pgm1
Now the HARMs won’t precisely hit right next to where the radar is and damage it 15%
NOTE 1. A TDOA member can only contribute if they are not already tracking an emitter with the HTS.
NOTE 2. This works for both single player and multiplayer. When in multiplayer and a Slave, you will get an audio DATA alert.
NOTE 3. Due to complications stemming from our other businesses, we had to adjust datalink terms. In this case, Tactical Net Datalink (TNDL). This is all I will say on the matter.
NOTE 4. As always, these videos provide a preview of an upcoming feature to assist you in understanding a new feature. Later, it is quite possible that the feature will change, and the feature functionality has changed. As much as I’d like to, I lack the time re-record these videos.
NOTE 5. Mission creators should place STN lists in their briefings. We will later add to knee boards.
NOTE 6. Next two videos: F/A-18C Datalink Update and then AH-64D Datalink.
That's strange phrasing with the NOTE 2...
@@pd28cat Why?
@@NotKalashnikovIt’s not strange but it’s very ‘I know what this should be like but it would be very naughty to include it’
Does wingman in multiplayer have to have the harm targeting pod on the mfd to contribute to the solution or can they just accept the DL data alert and contribute whilst say using air to air stores management page and a radar page?
Of course we are assuming the pod is on.
Can C2 contribute towards triangulation?
Thanks Wags. I can see the ground-work the team is laying here for the DCS core. Also appreciate the follow up clarifications. Neat stuff.
Two more datalink videos coming.
This is some sci-fi stuff, that's awesome. I thought it was only available in 2020s equipment, I'm pleasantly surprised our F-16 supports it.
It's literally a software update in real life. No hardware mods required.
@@bronco5334 Alright, then I'm stupid.
OUR F-16 ?
_USSR ANTHEM starts playing_
Truly awesome. Well done to the team, keep it up!
Omfg thank you Wags and Team for finally getting this into DCS! Super excited to really go hardcore on some SAMs
Wow ! Looks so crisp and clear on this old 14 year old laptop, incredible realism. Gonna be an awesome Viper update.
Liking the new stuff the F-16 is getting , keep it up with your team Wags :)
Super cool, nicely done ED
I don't want to read between the lines too much, here, but it always seems like ED is continually setting up to knock out multiple birds with a single stone, so to speak. As always, impressive! Very nice!
God I adore every single aspect of the datalink system. It's legit the coolest part of every jet. Shame it'll take decades to figure out what all it can do thanks to it being so important and classified.
This is awesome. Thanks 👍
Loving the f16 updates.
That's cool as heck !
Thanks for the F-16 updates.
So happy to see viper updates!!!
Oh man this is gonna be a game changer O_O
Great F16 videos and workings, now let's give hornet more loves :D
Please wait for the next video.
@@MattWagner Ah yeah I will, love the hornets and the vipers, state of the art :D thanks to you and ED for bringing them to life (by the way, when will rayt racing become available?)
Showing the new 3d pilot model as well ? 😅
@@justduff634 the new pilot model will be amazing, super bugs will be even more amazing :D
No, that is the existing one.
I'm loving the Datalink videos, I wonder what will follow down the road!
F/A-18C datalink video and then AH-64D datalink video.
@@MattWagnerthis is going to make cooperative squadron missions freaking awesome! Thanks for all the hard work you guys put into your work!
@@MattWagneryour killing me Wags. Now I gotta park the Strike Eagle and pull the Viper back out. On the good side I spend most of my time in those 3 aircraft anyway.
@@MattWagnerThank you. Just, THANK YOU. I have been wanting such an update forever, thank you for your great work!
Just downloaded the game since I got the stecs and gunfighter. This is alien asf
Sniper pod next year? Nice video update, thank you!
After early access. There is no specific date.
If we were to assign our flight members in a multiplayer server, let’s say I plug 204 for the guy to my right on the ramp to be added to my flight - would that player have to accept it? Or does it just happen?
If you understand the server settings well enough from a mission editor point of view, could you theoretically assign anyone you encounter to your flight on the fly?
What if they’re already assigned to someone else’s flight? Would they somehow be in two, or would one overwrite the other?
Curious that two team members doesn’t work, simply using angles much as one plane only does. I suppose this is a completely different method, more like GPS. I also wonder if three provides three coordinates with time being taken from GPS or datalink, or if there is actually giving time and the altitude is inferred from a map.
Wags convincing me to come back to DCS after purchasing every module available 2 years ago 😢
Come back to us
I just got the m2000, the only module im missing now is the harrier. Is it over for me too?
👌
Super cool Wags. Thanks.
forum.dcs.world/topic/278635-dcs-f-16c-viper-roadmap/
My dream comes true !
Its kinda crazy how fast that got to PGM1. usualy takes a while to even get PGM2.
couple questions:
1: you say that this system works best with 3-4 other allies, does it still work with just one? i ask because thats all ive got for consistent flight members
2: more of a hts question, if i undesignate a target, and designate it again later, will it still have the same accuracy, or does it need to recalculate?
3: is there any way that the hts is able work as a slave after getting its position accurate? that is to say do i have to undesignate to act as a slave, or are we able to have multiple flight members take advantage of the datalink without issue?
Thanks Wags :)
Will EW on datalink be simulated? And if so, will it affected the TDOA function?
Has anyone noticed the fps on top left corner?
New Viper Update ❤
In the video you said that in the future we'd have the ability to designate specific air targets to specific flight members. This applies to ground targets as well, correct?
No, that is not correct for the FCR flight member target assignment function.
@@MattWagner So there will be no way to datalink ground targets to specific flight members? They will always go to all members of the flight?
@@55th-Mirage Not at this time. You can order individual flight members, not just the entire flight, via the radio commands.
@51stvfw-mirage22 @@MattWagner I remember we can designate flight members a specific ground target via IFF-IN isn't that correct?
this is currently possible and was added long ago.
@@cipher8048 I didn't know that. I'll give it a try. How do you specify a specific flight member?
Sweet update, never seen PGM1. And I wonder what is OFF on the DED, the radios?
And why fuss over the word slave? It is such a common term when it comes to sensors. "A device, or part of one, directly controlled by another." But no people are hurt by words now. Words are violence. Must pander to the weak masses.
OFF on the radios just means he's turned the volume knobs all the way down, turning the radios off.
Ipeople being hurt by words isnt a new thing in America if you say anything objectively negative about America they'll flip their shouldn't tell you to go move to a different country. do you feel the same way about those people as you do the "weak masses"
Oh, joy...this is how you dismantle complex air defense systems...
What are the OFF indications on the DED under the COM1 and COM2 entries? MIDS voice?
It just means he's turned the volume knobs all the way down on both radios which turns them off. It's most likely so Wags can avoid having his AI flight members speaking over him in the video.
Haha awesome strategy.
Then send one low to deliver a cbu 105 while the rest distract sa10 with harms
lovely update for F-16
How do you find out an aircraft's TNDL number? Is there a way to do that in-cockpit, or is it only possible in the mission editor?
See pinned comment.
I'll just use HRM, designate the exact area, and then tell the coords to a hornet or viper with jdams.
Is there a minimum separation between flight members for TDOA to be useful, or does even a tight formation work?
No min separating, but the greater the azimuth separating between TDOA team members the better.
Nice !!!
Cool stuff! realy hyped for this one. May I ask why there is a minimum for 3 TDOA members? And correct me if im wrong so this won't be possible on a 2 ship flight?
Reference materials are clear that three aircraft are needed as a minimum. Please see earlier post on this below.
@@MattWagner copy, thanks for the reply.
Simply put when you are TRI-angulating something you need at minimum 3 data points. The more you have the better the triangulation will be.
@@ImpendingJokerthanks !
wow
impressive technology
DCS is some of the greatest sims out there, but MAN do I want to do USNF 97 vietnam again v.v
so this does what exactly? for the Slave-aircraft getting the TDOA point, what changes where? or is it a simple "I'm showing you my target, please lock it up and link me the info aswell" or what? Might be a stupid question on my part, but show off both sides when showing off something team based plz ^^ gotta have someone you can make the vid with :P my dumb brain needs a bit more detail atleast xD
Very exaustive video. I have two questions:
- SLAVE TDOA members are receiving the DATA notification, so only the "T" marked/activated in DLNK Page3, are receiving the alert, and not the other aircrafts partecipating the TNDL Fighter Channel. Correct?
- Speaking about DATA notification, in the past all the TNDL members receive the SPI/mark through the IFF command. With this TNDL major refactoring, are we going to expect a different behaviour?
Thanks!
1. Yes, only STNs marked with T will join the TDOA network.
2. TDOA is initiated using TMS Left Long instead of using the comms switch, so it doesn't affect current datalink behaviour HOTAS wise.
Hey wagssss
Hi question is which manual reference did you find the label for LINK 16 TNDL ? Since all manuals i have read the P3 label is LINK 16 and not TNDL
Manuals are being updated to reflect name changes.
@@MattWagner so due complications stemming from your other businesses the LINK 16 page renamed into TNDL ? if yes why ? is it something classified ? it is just a label LINK 16 and IDM pages
@@achristodoulidisyou are not going to get more details on stuff like this, I wouldn’t bother asking - although thanks for clearing up what he was talking about!
Are TD-S members forced to contribute the TD-M designated target until TD-M undesignates it?
Only if they are included in the TDOA net and not already tracking an emitter with the HTS.
On the Roadmap the Air-to-Air datalink assignments is said to be released after the DTC, is that still the plan? Or did you guys decide to release it right after the Upcoming Datalink update. I would really like to see that sooner than later.
The roadmap reflects our current plans.
When is the RWR hand-off feature going to be released?
Once we have delivery of the PRF tones.
Cool update, would appreciate SNIPER pod for F16
Is sniper older than the litening?
@@kolavadae4592 no, it's more modern than litening and more in use on F16s
forum.dcs.world/topic/278635-dcs-f-16c-viper-roadmap/
Yes new HARM content
What do the AL and NO options actually do? I thought only team members could contribute to TDOA.
I mention this in the video and in the video description text.
@@MattWagner You described TM as "all team members", and AL as "All contributors". I guess I'm confused on what is a contributor in this context.
@@wojtek5987 At this time, only Team members can contribute.
@@MattWagner Roger, thanks.
oh wow this is so cool a gang of harms armed f16 most be a nightmare of any radar operator
Why is 3 flight members the minimum? If I try to do this with one other person is it just not going to work or take a longer amount of time?
You'll need to ask the Air Force.
But what happens in DCS?
@@777coletrain Three aircraft minimum, just like the real aircraft.
@@MattWagner But what happens if you don't have 3 aircraft?
@@777coletrain They you get no input from other team members re HTS.
Does this work, if me myself dont have any AMG-88, onboard, but do have HAD?
Yes
Hmm. Doing WW over syria campaing. I can get TDOA text in the hud, but that send to dlink is pretty fuzzy for me. I have my wingman ("bug") as tdoa member in my group (as it is put by default). Fly to the zone-> searching for those Fc radars ok i can use tpod / had no prob, but my wingman just does not split or i cant see any of those lines. Do I have to put the master to me on somehow? It clearly seems that i just somehow are doing the sending to dlink wrong.. hmm. I just press TMS left for long? and btw: what is the meaning of tms left short -> UFC says SEAD and coords. Is it just information from that emitter / coords given of that moment? Do I need to send that or just go straight to TMS left long? I still bet there is something wrong with my DLINK settings, as i dont get that TD-M text to screen...@@MattWagner
quality should be a function of contributions members
AND angular relationship around the surveilled emitter
This is going to help so much. As long as my ai wingmen don’t screwup 😂
Or you! Lol
@@therocinante34432 ejecting
That's amazing! Give it to me now! Lol
And when we get fuses delay options?
Penetrator bombs are useless now..
In what case are they useless, I have not had any issues. Is there a specific target you are having troubles with?
Yes, GBU 12 for example, in hornet they easily destroys ammo depots, in f16 it's impossible due to fuse limits. Could we get placeholder for the time when it is Wip?
Kneeboard on ground would work as well.
Hey thanks for the reply! I think the issue here is the weapon for the job, first the GBU-12 is a little underpowered for an ammo depot, I did test as you said the Hornet will kill an Ammo Depot with one and I did not see this. Both the Hornet and Viper did not destroy the Ammo Depot with one GBU-12.
Preferrable for an Ammo depot or similar hardened bunker a better choice would be the GBU-31(V)3B, in both cases the Hornet and Viper one hit with this bomb will ruin the Ammo Bunker's day.
If you have anymore questions or concerns feel free to reach out to me on the official forums or Discord, hope this helps! Thanks!!@@kamil3358
Yes you are right, I run test myself today and GBU 12 from hornet didn't penetrated.. But im sure some updates ago GBU 12 was able to penetrate warehouses.
It really shouldnt, if it did at anytime it was a bug that was fixed. I do not recall seeing this issue but anything is possible. We try and list if a bomb is a pentrator in the game, so look for that as well when picking the appropriate weapon for the job. Thanks!@@kamil3358
Shouldn't it be "Comms switch left" to sent data over the datalink, instead of "TMS left"? Comms switch left and right is used for all other datalink communication, so it's kind wierd to see it's TMS for the HARM
No, not in this OFP.
Any Hornet stuff in next update?
Yes, please wait for the next video.
@@MattWagner thank you for your response, I will gladly wait.
when something new to ah64d ?
Soon
I did some tests and it doesn't seem to be working
Seems to be working fine here and with others. Please post a video to our forum, and we can better help determine where you may be going wrong.
I believe it's happening as you said
"NOTE 1: A TDOA member can only contribute if they are not already following a sender with HTS."
I've tried to encourage the AI not to engage the targets, but it seems to be doing it all the time.Yes, I'll post some videos and prints on the forum, thanks for your support 🙂@@MattWagner
*** Link this video to your "War Thunder" buddies :) Awesome details - we in the DCS community appreciate your hard work.
NOTE 3. Due to complications stemming from our other businesses, we had to adjust datalink terms. In this case, Tactical Net Datalink (TNDL).
Sounds not at all suspicious :)
As a person who used to have a government clearance, even if classified information is leaked, you're never supposed to confirm that it is supposed to be classified in unclassified contexts. In truth, the majority of people with clearances, if they saw a document with classified markings, could rarely independently and authoritatively tell you what the actual classification level is. In other words, just because "Billy has a clearance" doesn't mean Billy can tell you that document A, or fact B is classified at all, and to what level.
Frustratingly unclear - what was it before, and what is it now?!
What if i only have 1 friend. Will this still work or is the benefit negligble without a 3rd?
As stated in the video, you must have a minimum of three in a TDOA team.
gotcha thanks for the answer. 👌@@MattWagner
Hornet? Hornet please sir
Please wait for the next video.
I want that ability with just one jet and coordinates !
You don't understand the physics.
I do !@@joeds3775
So can you then tell AI aircraft to Attack My Target?
You could an issue an Attack Air Defenses command and they will still independently conduct a SEAD attack outside of TDOA.
@MattWagner I find the AI a bit hit and miss when issued commands, indicating a specific target would be way more efficient, a more expansive AI command menu would also benefit those who predominantly use the ME and fly in SP.
Also it would be better if you optimize the core of DCS
We made great strides towards this with multithreading earlier this year.
Two videos in a week, feeling a little bit spoilt at the moment. Well if there was any doubt it's now gone that the F16 is the SEAD king of DCS. I wonder if the F18 will be getting like minded enhancements
I don't think the hornet has a similar pod or system. The viper is the SEAD aircraft for the US.
F-18 can already isolate specific locations using its hud, JHMCS, and a harm for range and coarse coordinates. We have been able to do this for over a year. Even better when mixed with a TPOD, as it slaves nearly directly on top of the target. Any minor error is quickly removed with FLIR.
@@Chaos_Rifle If you are close enough to see the SAM on a TPOD the SAM isn't doing its job.
@@OzDeaDMeaT TPODS work from over 60nm away. I wasn't aware every sam was an SA10 and can teleport its missile instantly into you :P
@@Chaos_Rifle 60nm away, holy crap, what graphics settings you got there. Last time I used a TPOD it didn't render objects past 40nm. And even if it did it would probably resemble a nose nugget from that range anyway due to how piss poor the screens on the F18 are. Aren't all SAM's SA10's? :P
hey everyone waggs here from eagle dynamics
When’s the f15e getting new weapons? The TPOD is useless, can’t see anything until your right on top of them.
I do not comment on 3rd party products, please direct your question to RAZBAM.
man that sounds like you suck hard, i have no issues using it. Yes it is worse than litening but it is also older than the litening. Again the pod is fine and when coupled with the A/G Radar it is unbeatable.
It may well be like that in real life. It's just a camera.
lantirn pod is not exacly know for its good resolution. We will eventually get a Lightning pod and further into development, Sniper pod according to razbams roadmap. Both are far into the future though, probably years.
Omg F-16 is racist! Lol jk
master / slave comment 🙄
Huh
Subjectively right that is unfortunate terminology but it is what it is. No doubt the word slave has a negative connotation to the majority of people who speak English.