Is Chief O’Brien Actually Star Trek’s Most Suffering Character?
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
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▶Chapters:
0:00 - Intro
01:50 - The Sufferings of Miles O’Brien
05:30 - The Sufferings of James T. Kirk
10:30 - The Sufferings of Jean-Luc Picard
14:47 - The Sufferings of Christopher Pike
16:38 - The Sufferings of Rok-Tahk
20:00 - The Sufferings of Harry Kim
27:52 - The Sufferings of Worf (and also Andy Sipowicz, a little)
36:04 - Conclusion
39:20 - Shoutouts, Plugs, and Announcements
#startrek #videoessay #startrek #startrekvoyager #startrekpicard #startrektng #startrekdeepspacenine - Zábava
O'Brien not being able to win a suffering competition seems to be the ultimate sign that he is the most suffering character
Classic comment..!!!
Perfect
Instant classic
Worf wins and receives the O'Brien Suffering Award.
He was already a much greater engineer than Scotty or Geordi while pretending to be a transporter chief. Does he need another reason to feel superior?
I think at least an honorable mention should go to Tasha Yar. Raised on the streets of a barbaric colony avoiding rape gangs and escaping only by tossing her sister aside. Dies pointlessly on a away mission, killed by a oil slick. Only to be resurrected in an alternate timline. Having to choose to knowingly sacrifice her life to correct the timeline. Only to then be captured by Romulans, forced to become a sexslave, have a daughter, and ultimately be killed by her abuser while trying to escape!
Considering how comparatively few eppisodes Tasha appears in, I'd say pound for pound She truly is a top ranking contender for "most suffering Trek character".
considering all the people in the Star Trek universe that are not main characters, she still had it good.
the nameless people or the people in the DMZ getting raided out of their homes, or the Bajorans living under a nazi regime for generations.
yes, if we only look at main characters, I agree, she got a bad ticket here.
Except Miles is likeable and Tasha is insufferable.
Takes Data's virginity?
And the only fun time she got was with a robot for which she gets mercilessly MEMEd on Facebook!
The part where she escapes the rape gangs only to get raped to produce an alien baby, that just makes me so mad at the writers.
I'm going to give a nod to Kira Nerys.
1: Grew up under a brutal occupation.
2: Parents died when she was young under said occupation.
3: Most of her resistance cell members who were her surrogate family were murdered.
4: Found out her deceased mother had been a comfort woman to her worst enemy.
5: Protege Ziyal was killed as was her best friend Jadzia.
6: One great love dies another is forced to leave and possible never return to her.
My one critique of Steve's video is that it (IMO) undervalues female suffering, as evidenced by the lack of T'Pol, Kira, Troi, Torres or Rand.
Uff… yeah… missed because much of it is off screen and before the events of the story, but, especially given the metaphor, hers is the worst
Space palestinians are too controversial for top 10 tragedy lists
@@s0ulshotIf you think Steve would shy away from talking about the genocide in Gaza, you haven't been watching very long.
@@GSBarlev yeah, I was honestly expecting Worf to be Torres from the silhouette.
Poor Harry. Dude died FOUR TIMES on the show and still couldn't get promoted.
Maybe because most of Voyager he was a replacement? .... I guess it still doesn't make sense 😒
Not only did he not get a promotion, he never even got a character arc.
@@gohawks3571Tom was demoted and later promoted back, and he violated the damn prime directive
Not counting anything set in some alternate future timeline the one time he did command a ship the crew mutinied. And there were only four of them. And one of the four was Seven. Not exactly impressive leadership skills there.
@@Tuskin38 That's no big deal... as far as Voyager is concerned, violating the Prime Directive is called "Thursday"
how did you forget troi, a character constantly being mentally attacked, physically assaulted, and also has to deal with her mother
And has to feel everyone else’s bad days and hookups. That has to be awkward at best.
Don't forget that she lost a son and then had to face not only _her own_ grief, but _her husband's._
To be fair, everybody had to deal with her mother
I thought of her the moment I saw the video title!
Being her mother’s daughter clearly makes Diana the most suffering character
I think Picard's experience in The Inner Light should be considered as a part of his suffering. In no way does it bring him up to O'Brien's or Worf's level, but he lived an entire life, had a family, and lost all of that, with only a shitty flute as a keepsake.
I was also going to add the fire on board his first command, the Stargazer.
I really wanted that episode to end with Picard screaming, "You a$$hole$ took over my mind without my consent, gaslit me into believing I was someone else, made me think I had a family and lost friends and family, all of which wasn't even the life of someone else but a fantasy of your long dead civilization, in the hope that I might tell someone your mundane society actually existed... and that's assuming you're even being truthful about it considering the lies you've fed to me?
FU people!
Yeah, I thought The Inner Light deserved mention too, just for the profound impact it had on Picard, and for the struggles and suffering he went through in his alternate life on a dying planet. That stuff's not easy!
The experiences from The Inner Light were profound, but also wholesome and _complete._ The amount of suffering he experienced was relatively minor and came with a lifetime of on average positive and uplifting memories. If this counts as loss, it's very much the "better to have loved and lost" kind. If it counts as suffering, it's pretty comparable to the average 21st century human.
I don't think living a life that people would choose to live - with mostly healthy, loving family and friends - belongs in the same conversation as torture, false convictions and imprisonment, physical mutilation, being severely disabled, repeatedly witnessing your own gruesome death, or having the lives of everyone you love cut short.
And during this life, he saw life getting more difficult on his planet, and at the end being told: This planet is going to die soon, with everybody you love on it, and only your memory and your flute will survive. Or something like that. Must rewatch.
That Picard-stabbing-joke was heartless.
I see what you did there.
It really broke my heart to hear Steve say it.
I dunno. I found it rather... artificial.
He had a good point though.
It was at least helped to illustrate a fairly sharp point.
The worst thing for Kirk was his brother being stung to death by a flying pizza.
What about Seven of Nine? After twenty years as a Borg drone, she's liberated but has to live with medical problems, psychological trauma, and discrimination.
Edit: Also, Seven lost her family, too.
Not to mention that damn catsuit! Give the woman a proper uniform!
@@thing_under_the_stairs Whatever one's opinions of the Picard series are, I'm glad they put Jeri Ryan in much more tasteful outfits.
There is a hilarious interview with Patrick Stewart and Jeri Ryan doing promos for the Picard Series and she mentions how much more do you prefer is the costume for 7 of 9 (not just for comfort but also character) an Patrick is a bit confused and so she explains that she wore a type of catsuit on Voyager; he immediately looks away from the interviewer and to her - "a catsuit?!"
(He is very clearly shocked and kind of offended on her behalf regarding that earlier decision.)
You can't call worf getting beat up suffering, he loves that shit
He loves the pain, but hates being known as the guy who lost to a container.
Worf, "THAT WHICH DOES NOT DESTROY ME MAKES ME STRONGER!"
Universe, "Shut up, and take your licks."
It's delicious
“He had not one, but *two* children…”
I was waiting for something to come after that, then started cackling. Well played, sir.
I nearly spit at the "argument over lighting fixtures that got out of hand" line🤣🤣
💡💡💡💡
Unfortunately her suffering is mitigated by the fact that she has material proof that her religion is true and her gods are real. She literally basked in the love of the Prophits.
I feel like Kira should be on this list. Her backstory alone puts her there but she ends off bidding goodbye, probably forever, to the love of her life. Everything she goes through inbetween (and there is fair amount there) is just icing.
Yes! Totally agree with all of this. Kira has suffered much pain and loss.
I feel like the 20 years of prison that Obrien lived wasn't factored in nearly enough. He endured a significant amount of isolation, which does a ton of damage to the mind. Let alone that he was forced into such extreme starvation and neglect that he lost his mind and killed his cell-mate. He had to live with that agony
O'Brian putting the phaser to his head trumped Whorf's pain, for me.
Also, Klingons like pain.
Exactly, Klingons love suffering
"O'Brien experiences pain, Worf experiences loss."
Holy shit, dude. That one hit me. Your analyses of episodes I've seen dozens of times point out to me things I've never caught. This is the content I'm here for!
Also, I cannot state how much I appreciate the proper pronunciation of my surname in the shout-outs!
Also, that maybe dating Worf really was already a death sentence even before Jadzia. Since Troi didn't make it to "All Good Things", in a timeline where she never rekindled her relationship with Riker.
"The argument with David Warner over lighting fixtures that got out of hand" - you're on fire today
What makes O'Brien special is a) he's not a lead character and b) it's never O'Brien's fault or something he pushed into motion; he's just a really put upon everyman ^^
Plus, he's played by Colm Freakin' Meaney! I guess that actually counts as a tick in the positive column of O'Brien's ledger of woe.
well, he was in DS9 a main character.
but he never was in command, thats true.
but if you know a bit about enlisted crew, you know that a chief petty officer, even though not technically outranking any officer, still pulls way more weight than a lieutenant.
especially if he is Chief of Operations.
COO is basically the 3rd-4th-5th officer, if not by rank, at least in practice, and especially on a stationary post like a space station here.
definitely senior staff with commander, second commander, chief medical doctor, and chief of operations, those are the most powerful people on a base basically.
O'Brien is a better engineer than Geordi la Forge. .. running for my life now ... 😂 Seriously, O'Brien was the Engineer of the Defiant and DS9 during a massive war. Guy is more of a legend than Geordi.
@@scrypher
I'll concede that O'Brien faced more technical challenges, such as repurposing the tech and software of a Cardassian space station to be compatible with Federation systems, and keeping a Romulan cloaking device operating on an overpowered gunship that was trying to shake itself apart; as opposed to Geordie running Federation stuff on the most Federation ship in the fleet.
@@scrypher Is this a controversial statement? Look-I love Geordi, but in the canon of Miracle Workers, he's mid-tier at best. My top five is probably:
5. Scotty-I don't think he was actually a better engineer than LaForge, but he knew how to pad his estimates, and that means a lot in the field
4. Torres-getting what was essentially a scout ship home from the Delta Quadrant _and_ building the Warp 10 engine _and_ retrofitting a quantum slipstream drive and a bunch of Borg tech
3. Trip-getting a Warp 5 engine to, on occasion, push Warp 7 is impressive enough, _before_ you learn no one else in Starfleet could even get the Columbia *out of space dock*
2. Reno-kept her entire crew alive for months with nothing but some DOTs and some body horror
1. O'Brien
I think " O'brien must suffer" is a thing because it represents a pretty big percentage of his total storylines. Sure, other characters suffer, but we also see them have a good time. Also, because he's married, O'Brien misses out on one of the other big sources of Star Trek drama -- space fucking.
We need Steve to do a video ranking all the most notorious space fuckers in star trek. I'd say Riker gets my top vote In terms of space fuckery.
Wow! Now that is insightful and true. 😝
Gotta feel sorry for Tuvok sometimes, for having to live on the same ship as Nelix. The dude literally made a holodeck simulation to murder Nelix. We only see him use it that one time, but it's fun to imagine that every time Nelix annoys him, he goes back to the holodeck to murder him again.
For most concentrated suffering, Tasha gets an honorable mention. Backstory alone puts her in the top 5
You left out Harry being tricked into thinking he's not actually human but some alien species of hot women who actually feast on the men they so trick (Favorite Son).
But then he hooked up with Musseta Vander; worth it.
The light bondage in that episode is pretty funny (now). Ooh, a ribbon - how exotic!
He also didn't talk about the events of "The Chute" where he almost kills his best friend after being neurochemically agitated and tortured.
He finally gets a chance to feel special, only to find out it was all a lie.
That same episode has a guest appearance from Patrick Fabian (Howard Hamlin from Better Call Saul)
Most cruelly, O'Brien had to endure the admiration and EXTREMELY one-sided friendship of Season One Bashir
*_shudder_*
Doesn't bear thinking about...
Do I... annoy you?
Damn, that one hit me right in the autism!
@@willvgo2950 I've been watching it with the Japanese dub (for language practice) and that scene was even better in the Japanese translation tbh
But it does evolve into:
"People either love you or hate you. I used to hate you..."
"And now...?"
"Now... I don't."
@@kaitlyn__L Having watched parts of Backstroke of the West, I believe you.
I'd like to offer Charles Tucker as another contender, he went through it in Enterprise.
I’m surprised you didn’t mention the Picard flute episode where he gets his mind trapped in a memory of a dead civilization.
Might not qualify as suffering since picard remembers the experience fondly.
@@scottcamuto8410Never being able to see your kids and grandkids again definitely qualifies as suffering.
Honestly I think I became a meme because *everyone* who watches Star Trek *loves* O'Brian. This is thanks to him being really well-written, and the everyman charm of Colm Meaney. His suffering is *our* suffering, because he's "us." He's got a wife and kids, he plays video games with his best friend, he geeked out as hard as the rest of us when he talked to Kirk... he's our man. And that's why we love him.
I think the reason that we REALLY think about O'Brien as the most suffering character isnt just the sheer volume of O'Brien suffering episodes, but also the fact that EVERY O'Brien episide is about suffering. If you get a Worf episode in DS9 you might get an episode about how his son is a dissapointment or how Klingons don't respect him, but you're more likely to get an episode about him falling in love with Jadzia, rescuing Klingon artifacts, or restoring honor to old Klingon traditions. But an O'Brien episode? Misery guaranteed. O'Brien knows only suffering. The writers didn't know what to do with this man besides make him suffer, and it's incredible to see them coming back to the well of torturing this man over and over again for seemingly no reason. Also, fifteen years of mind-prison might be the single worst punishment in the series. Fifteen years of psychological prison torture, and then being told that it wasn't real, it doesn't matter, and you have to go back to your job like it never happened. Whoever cooked up that idea in the writer's room was straight up evil.
Oh, and how about Geordi for being basically a nice guy, who the writers decided would inexplicably act like a creepy sex-pest from time to time?
Not deleting his browser history before Leah Brahms showed up was his own damn fault.
I wouldn't call it inexplicable. Geordi was a nice guy both with and without quotes. The trick is that "nice guy" plus shyness and minus power presents externally as just a genuinely nice guy. But the inner motivation was also there: "I'm lonely and deserve love. I'm too respectable (and timid) to visibly project responsibility for fixing that onto women, but I'll still view every woman as a chance for the universe to _meet my needs_ rather than a person with their own needs." For all his outward discipline and desire to behave honorably, sometimes emotional desperation and the conditioning of his inner perspectives breaks through as "creepy sex-pest."
Even in his relationships with men, Geordi spends way more time looking for emotional support than providing it. The one person he supports and with whom he really does connect is Data, who presents not as needing emotional support, but rather as being an engineering puzzle to solve. Geordi consistently connects with and understands machines by graciously accepting them as they are and devising practical, realistic improvement strategies. (It probably helps that machines are tools and exist to serve.) Then he turns around and cannot understand people because he views them through a lens of personal needs and desires.
I'm not trying to paint Geordi as a bad guy. He's _way_ too relatable for me to comfortably do so. Beyond that, I don't think how he acts out (usually) warrants that label. Rather, he's just plagued with minor character flaws rooted in emotional immaturity and insecurity. Having a visor that let his gaze linger where it please without generating negative feedback probably didn't help positively condition his attitude either. But those occasional negative behaviors are wholly consistent with who he was overall. And for what it's worth, I don't recall any evidence of him failing to eventually mature out of that mindset - as I like to think I've also done.
@@HonoredMule at least he learned his lesson and didn't try to make up some random excuse with that late-show woman whose logs he went through. Just "sorry, I was ordered to look through them cos we thought you were dead". It's briefly awkward with, her (Ariel? Aquiel?), but then they move past that.
I'm not thrilled about how he tried to Do Her A Favour about getting her on his staff at the very end, with hints he might've tried to pull some kind of "dating the boss" situation later, but at least she turned it down.
Making up excuses about just happening to love all the same food, and coming up with all the same engineering improvements, with Leah just set off 100x more alarm bells for her about being a subspace-stalker than what the actual truth was. If he'd told her about the holodeck right away, she might not even have assumed the worst. But she'd already been low-level catastrophising for a day and a bit by the time she saw it.
Geordi would have been sacked
Okay, so I agree Harry's suffering is not as great as Worf or O'Brien, but I'm glad he got a nod.
A few notable trauma's to add to those herein:
In Heroes and Demons, he gets transferred into energy and held hostage; in The Chute, he gets his brain clamped, causing him agitation that almost got him to kill his best friend, in Non Sequitur he slips into an alternate universe, causing him to voluntarily leave his beloved girlfriend...
But the most traumatic thing that happened, was he turned down sex with Seven of Nine, in Revulsion.
Oh yeah, and he falls for a hologram, twice.
AND.... he gets duplicated by the silver goo, (somehow the OG copy of Harry survives without oxygen for hours in the most inhospitable planet ever) and then the goo Harry who forgot he was goo, and disintegrated in space.
Trip doesn't even get an honorable mention. I'm not even sure I'm mad about it, but damn bro that's cold.
Tuvix: "What am I, chopped leola root? I didn't ask to be created! What did I do to deserve this?"
Don’t worry Tuvix, you won’t be around to find out.
"He had not one, but two... children" 🤣
Parents everywhere really felt that one! 😂
I Stan Rok-Tahk, and "Time Amok" and its aftermath broke my heart, but she had a functional holodeck throughout. To talk about her and not mention Sukal, who spent *100 years* (including his entire adolescence) alone with a *degrading* holodeck, having witnessed his mother's brutal death, and then having to deal with the guilt from The Burn... seems a little strange.
Also: I'm not sure how you skipped over T'Pol, who suffered from addiction; repeated (S) assaults and kidnappings; the loss of a child that she didn't even consent to having; and enduring *two years* of intense prejudice and mistrust...
Oh, and the smell. I don't think it's really something you "get used to."
I'm surprised The Inner Light didn't show up in Picard's suffering section. He had a long life, made friends, had a wife and children and grandchildren and suddenly he wakes up and that world is gone and all those people long dead. All he's left with is a flute he can only play with another man's hands.
Do you realize that you mentioned an episode with "light" in the title to claim that were 5 traumas when there were in fact only 4?
All of the captains had something that O'Brien didn't: command-level plot armor. O'Brien was a lower decker in TNG and a high-ranking lower deck (yeah, it's a thing!) on DS9. The captains had a full ship crew supporting their misadventures, O'Brien was often alone. That makes a huge difference in the suffering. O'Brien must suffer, don't take that from him.
I think what elevates O'Brien's suffering the most to me is that most of his are just random acts from the universe. Your other primary contender's suffering is often a result of his own actions or the culture he belongs to. It is generally something that can be foreseen and anticipated, something that, one could argue, he signed up for. It's rare that O'Brien's suffering is the sort of thing a chief of operations would reasonably expect to endure.
I also think you may have undersold O'Brien's virtual imprisonment just a smidge. 20 years of torturous confinement culminating in killing the only person you had contact with is arguably the worst and longest suffering any person on this list had to endure. To us it may have only been 1 episode worth of suffering, but to him, it was 3 full series worth of nonstop suffering, and I think that alone is more than any other contender can claim.
As an Irishman myself, I love the character of Myles O'brien he may have suffered a lot, but he never lost his soul 😊Good man, Steve, another fantastic video sir thanks 😊
Saw the title of the video and my immediate thought was Harry Kim saying “Hold my beer”
"ends up having to adopt a cat"
[Insert Kirk I need my pain meme gif]
"parenting seems like a lot y'all" - got me with that one lol
Don't forget that there is stuff that we haven't seen. In episode 3 season 2 of DS9, he remarks that the replicated emergency rations during the Cardassian War is the only thing about it that he misses.
Speaking of Kirk, you forgot about his terror at 20,000 feet.
See people want to reference Thanos when talking about killing half of a population in response to a resource shortage, but we really should be referring to the OG Kodos
I'm a little surprised you didn't mention Sisko who lost his wife within minutes of his introduction. He may not have suffered as much as Worf or O'Brien but he did lose a spouse, which is more than most Star Trek regulars can say.
Depending on your definition of "spouse," Worf could be said to have lost two spouses.
Made a reluctant messiah to an alien species he barely knows. Becomes unstuck in time and has to watch his son kill himself to get back. Becomes a leader and figurehead in a brutal war. Sacrifices his ethics to turn the tide of that war. Sees his oldest friend murdered by his worst enemy. Says goodbye to his wife, son, and unborn child with no guarantee of when (or if) he'll return.
@@WFierce The Dax symbiote survived. He knew Jadzia for 6 years. But you did leave out Far Beyond the Stars, Sisko experiencing racism in the 1950's because the prophets are jerks.
Dusty Rhodes introducing Worf is something I didn't know I needed.
"I'll even be Alexander's Dad!" is the new "Do it to Julia!"
great vid, on the Picard list of sufferings I would actually add his experience in the Inner Light. Although not personally traumatic per say, as in physical or torturous pain, he did live a full life with a wife and then children on a world that is doomed as the years pass, only for him to wake up back on the Enterprise and only 20 minutes pass. Imagine having a full life of friends, family loved ones that you lived, especially having children something he could never have in his real life, only to have that robbed away just because it was an dead alien civilization's way of being remembered. I know now he has a son with Beverly, but they weren't really in each other's life till the Picard's senior years. Him receiving the flute he had played through his experience at the end of the episode, you could feel that sadness of loss of a life, that wasn't even his, but he lived nonetheless.
That's my favourite episode because of that last scene where he's playing the flute alone in his room. It's beautiful.
i'd add that the time picard had to mind meld with sarek counts as pretty traumatic too.
Getting to experience 150 years of emotional suppression in the course of an afternoon from somebody dying of dementia. That's definitely something in the O'Brien-like column.
Miles O'Brien is a good example of how the "luck o' Irish" doesn't always apply.
Second exampe: All of Irish history 😂
In my family, it's "Luck of the Irish: all bad".
I hope the moral of the story in this video is that trauma isn't a competition. What may scar one person for life may be a bad day at the office for another. There is no need to compare traumas in the real world. If it affects you, there's no changing that, you don't need an excuse to feel.
I feel if pre-show backstory is allowed, then Major Kira would win hands down across all shows.
O’Brien’s family can comfort him, but I think it also amplifies his suffering. For one, the idea of not being with them and there for them again adds to every suffering.
But, even more, even getting through the suffering separates him from them. My understanding, and it is only from a great distance, is that one of the struggles of PTSD, especially from the military, is not being able to share the full horror of what caused it.
And perhaps that is why we perceive O’Brien to suffer more: we are given glimpses of him dealing with that side of things.
So true. It was a very important part of the character as you mentioned. And it does add that extra layer of realism.
I always considered Picard's life in The Inner Light to be a trauma, they convinced him he wasn't who he thought he was and forced him to endure a lifetime in that 25 minutes which I think would be unsettling to most people.
In the Inner Light, Picard was gaslit into believing his entire life as Jean-Luc Picard was a lie. He holds out for two years before finally giving up and accepts having a wife and family. Over time he has to watch all his new friends and family die. And while that part isn't any more traumatic than what many older folks experience as they get into the later years of their lives and see people they care about pass on, his children and grandchildren whom he loves are still very much alive and are ripped away from him in an instant at the end. He doesn't just have to contend with the sudden death of all his children and grandchildren.....he has one instant to come to terms with the fact that they never existed. It took Picard TWO YEARS to eventually let go of his life aboard the Enterprise and accept his new life as Kamin on Kataan.....Kamin had about 5 minutes to process letting go of his life and entire family and the death of everybody on his entire planet and suddenly reintegrate into life on the Enterprise. What a mind fuck!
What about Tasha Yar? All the terrible stuff that happened to her before joining Starfleet (certain types of gangs that would chase her down). Then when her alternate timeline version was taken captive by Romulans (with similar intentions as the gangs, apparently), giving birth to and being betrayed by her half-Romulan daughter Sela. Let alone all the other stuff Starfleet tends to cope with in the episodes she was in.
I think of O'Brien as not only one of the characters who's suffered the most throughout the franchise's collective narrative (maybe not THE most, but right up there), but he also lives an otherwise-humble life. Most of the rest of the characters who suffer as much (or more) than O'Brien have incredible highs to match their incredible lows. Glory, fame, incredible professional success, etc. (well, maybe not Harry 😆). When he's not suffering terribly in the service of the Federation, O'Brien crawls into a Jeffries Tube to fix the replicators for the thousandth time, then goes home to his family or to a Holosuite to play games with his bestie. He's a hardworking, humble union man. And that makes him both more identifiable to most of us, and also makes his suffering all the more poignant.
heh on Harry Kim, the game Star Trek Online actually retconned Harry Kim's death in Deadlock. His dead body was picked up by the Komali and he his body was used to become one of their "Newborn"s
The rule is red Shirts die but maybe also yellow shirts suffer?
I think Ash Tyler deserves honorable mention
I will say, surprised there isn't more mention of Keiko's suffering; I get that O'Brien's the one who has to go through the physical and mental anguish directly, but I do think that the community overlooks how it would feel to have to constantly deal with your husband being kidnapped, almost killed, constantly going on dangerous missions, or even just having to raise your kid on the deathtrap that was early seasons DS9. (That, plus getting possessed, losing her kid to the time portal like you mentioned, and even having to transfer her baby over to Kira, which I doubt was a pleasant experience, plus countless other things I'm probably forgetting).
Most suffering character? Maybe not, but I think what she goes through at least deserves a mention. Great video though!
Kurn "survived" Khitomer by not being there. Mogh went on what was supposed to be a short trip with his wife and Worf, maybe still too young to remember he had an infant brother (he was 5 at Khitomer). Kurn was left on Qo'nos, under the care of family friend, Lorgh, who then adopted Kurn after his family's demise, and didn't tell Kurn his true heritage until he had reached the Age of Ascension.
O'Brien's suffering is more impactful to me than anyone else because - as an ordinary guy myself - I relate to him more. He's just a 'go-along to get-along' guy who has to put up with *lots* of
sci-fi Trek crap. More than a 'regular dude's' share, IMHO.
I was thinking the same. Not to diminish what the others went through, but, for example, Kirk signed on for this, and Worf finds comfort in his culture’s approach to honor and death. O’Brien’s just, like, “I wasn’t even supposed to be here today!”
You could actually also make a case for Spock. All of them. I won't belabor the point but both Spocks got to experience their home worlds being destroyed, emotionally compromising them both. The older spock being marooned on a planet to watch and do nothing, meanwhile Kelvin Spock was incapable of saving his Mother. And then of course Kelvin Spock gets to experience the death of his friend. Again, a clearly traumatizing moment.
And then there's SNW Spock. Do I really have to say more about what happened there?
"I'm the X"
You mean the bad Broadway musical episode?
@@KayleighBourquinthe subtitles were brilliant for that song. I think they actually changed from "the x" to "the ex" between verses, as the focus changed
One could make a case for Gul Dukat and any other character that suffers a fate worse than death, like being sealed away in space hell with space devils for all time, while the sweet release of death will eventually come for Miles and Worf. The topic didn't say the suffering couldn't be self inflicted or well deserved!
Steve, don't forget Picard having been mind zapped by a probe and spending decades on a dying planet being gaslit by the people around him that actually belonged there as a ploy 'for them to be remembered', finally believing it, and then being dumped back into his regular life and all he got out of it was the ability to play the flute.
On the Picard roster I would add the Return of the Stargazer and how he was mind controlled into nearly destroying his ship and crew.
You left out one of O'Brien's greatest amount of suffering. Standing in Transporter Room 3, doing nothing, for the length of his shift, until someone comes along and needs to use the transporter. Which doesn't happen all that often.
"And if you're a fan of canon, you have to live with it."
Oh I can live with it. I *can* live with it. 😏
Additional damage for Picard "Inner Light" he got given all those memories by the space probe and had to watch his fake family (including a couple of kids) and civilization face inevitable destruction when the star goes nova. As Alison Pregler argued on this very channel that is kind of messed up.
Also there was the revenge plots against him by that rogue Ferengi Damon. First Picard was made to relive the loss of his 1st ship the Star Gazer and then he was made to attack his new crew in the throws of a memory orb. In the second plot even more horrifying the Ferengi made him think he had a son! "Revenge is a dish best served cold! And it is very cold in space."
"I'll even be Alexander's Dad! Just make it stop!" Ooof. Chills.
Didn't Tyler/Voq go through unbelievable physical suffering? One of the grimmest most violent scenes ever in Trek (I'm not saying that's a bad thing but it was pretty fucking visceral!)
Steve, Miles wins. He very clearly suffered being married to Keiko, while being in love with Julian who could never return that love in the same way as Julian only had eyes for Garak.
Clearly, no one suffered more than that.
Oh yeah, he also escaped Worf when leaving the Enterprise and then Worf just follows along.
Yep. Miles wins!
He was also retconned from being an officer into something that hadn't existed in Starfleet for decades, an enlisted man. Where were the time cops to stop that?
Chief O'Brien is the perfect example of a Navy Chief Petty Officer (CPO). A CPO is usually an experienced enlisted Sailor with over 12+ years in the service and is responsible for the leading of junior enlisted Sailors and mentoring of junior Officers. Miles fits that role perfectly and because he leads/mentors most every character he of course has seen some suffering during his long service as the officers will go to the Chief when the junior enlisted fails in some way and the junior enlisted will go to the Chief when the Officers are giving "stupid" orders. Needless to say, all CPOs have thick skin. Many CPOs have to sacrifice time with the family and some even have spouses that make the CPO choose between them or service. Is Miles the most suffering character? Yes, but that perfectly fits what most CPOs go through and therefore I find him the most relatable and favorite individual within the Star Trek universe.
I also think Rok-Tahk’s time as an enslaved arena fighter, before she was forced to mine hazardous materials, would’ve been due a mention in her section. Some of the other gang seem to know what life was like before they got to the Diviner, but she doesn’t seem to have any “before” :(
Sliding into the Dusty impression for Worf was the laugh I needed. Thanks, Steve!
You missed the time where Kim experienced "what if" scenario when he (and Tom Paris) never went on Voyager, and now Kim has a perfect life back on Earth with his girlfriend, but decides to give that up to go back to Voyager
I'm a little surprised that you didn't include the episode of TNG where Picard is hit by a probe's beam and lives a whole life while unconscious, only to find out that everyone he got to know died a long, long time ago, and the probe was just put out there so that somebody, somewhere, would know they existed. I know he got a flute out of the deal, but I can't imagine how traumatic that experience would be.
Let's not forget that near the end of Badda Bing Badda Bang, O'Brien was probably cavity-searched by the casino security.
Tasha Yar's childhood deserves a mention and also in TNG, Deanna Troi being the token 90s 'Oh lets have a woman just so she can be abused each week' female tertiary lead is pretty awful with how often she's assaulted for it to be waved off. Kira Nerys surviving a planet-wide holocaust, her mother being a 'joy division' prisoner to space-hitler, her friends, adoptive family in the resistance being murdered as well as her new found family like Jadzia and Ziyal killed needlessly is...an awful level of suffering. Seven of Nine suffering discrimination and PTSD as a Borg-survivor, I haven't watched much of SNW yet so can't comment much about it but what about Nurse Chapel and Doctor M'Benga's wartime experiences?
I know you haven't really watched the series a lot which is why you didn't bring it up, but I think it's only fair if we get to torture you a little bit Steve so I'm going to talk about Star Trek Lower Decks really quick.
Because I think Beckett Mariner deserves at least an honorable mention here. Because as we learn over the course of the series she went to some trauma of her own very similar to some of the things Chief O'Brien went through.
Underneath her laid back "too cool for school" exterior lies a woman traumatised by her experiences in the Dominion War and by the death of her close personal friend and role model Sito Jaxa.
The latters in her mind avoidable death in service of Starfleet forever crushing her belief in the institution and turning her into a self-sabotaging officer.
The reason O'Brien suffers the most is because if we see him on screen for more than 2 minutes, there's a pretty good chance he's going to suffer. The other mentioned characters actually get some happy times on screen.
Star Trek cast a lot of conventionally attractive actors. Colm Meany always inspired me as a mascot for the actual human population.
He’s just the perfect every-man on a ship full of insane people!
You missed the part of Picard's story where he ends up living an entire alien life in a matter of an hour.
Yeah, but it was also a good life. Probably still worth a mention, though.
Whew! You had me worried for a second there. When I saw the name of this Trek actually broadcast I thought: "oh no, he's stolen my idea for the article I'm going to write for my Trek club!" The article is called, All Engineers Must Suffer; everyone thinks O'Brien is the only Engineer that suffered, but if you look at each show closely, all of them had problems. Scotty, LaForge, B'lanna AND 'Trip' Tucker all suffered, even the first engineer in Strange New Worlds, he died!
I loved this Trek Actually, good job. Feel free to steal my idea anyway, you're worth it.
With Picard, don't forget: Voyager confirms that the process of actually being assimilated and having all those augments installed in your body is apparently extremely painful. And I doubt the Borg care enough to dull the pain for someone they're assimilating.
Picard trauma probably occurs in the fifth season episode Inner Light where he is implanted with the memories of Kamin. He outlives his wife and best friend and discovers that his entire planet is doomed to die, including his daughter and grandson. I know it’s all in his head, but it was real enough that he learned how to play an instrument and he says “I find that I’m having to rediscover that this is really my home” at the end of the episode.
I very much think about the fact there's canonically a Harry Kim corpse in deep space that is never mentioned ever again.
How's that picture of Riker holding up after being in your wallet for so many years? 😜
It only looks more distinguished as the creases make the hair turn grey
You forgot about the suffering in "The Inner Light" *shudders* being forced to play the flute. Trauma.
I think that Kira should be in the discussion. A lot more of her suffering is backstory with the Bajoran occupation being direct trauma to her and her losing both parents and presumably others in the occupation. She also fought as a resistance fighter which was certainly filled with a lot of horrors. She later discovered that her mother was living with Dukat, had most of the people who were in her resistance cell killed because of her, was forced to spend more time with Dukat than anyone should have to including working with him and Wayne when the station was captured, was kidnapped multiple times, inducing one while pregnant and finally when the war against the dominion was over the person she was in a relationship with had to join the great link.
Steve, you wouldn’t be the only one having a good time … I pop every time you go full American Dream
Harry Kim wasn't sucked out in "Deadlock" he was blown out.
I'm pretty sure he was sucked out in that alien STD episode tho.
Voyager had docked with Mega Maid
Nah he was sucked
"A great guy, with great hair, and a grim and inescapable fate."
Oh, I thought "The Inner Light" would also be listed among Picard's suffering
I mean, it was more bitter sweet I think, probably still traumatizing in its own way but Picard seems to fondly remember his second life.
Do you realize that you picked an episode with the word "light" in the title to claim that there were 5 of something when there were in fact only 4?
If you mention Garak, then it's only fair to mention he was also one of the top-tier sufferers.
The illegitimate son of the leader of the Obsidian Order, his father never publicly acknowledges him and privately expresses mostly disappointment in him, even saying many times that he should have killed his mother while pregnant with him.
Driven to succeed in the order, he is ultimately exiled. No conclusive account of the reason why is ever given, but two of the explanations given say he was punished for showing mercy to Bajorans.
He deals with his exile with a cranial implant, which manfunctions, causing him severe pain.
His father actually tries to kill him, before instead taking him on a doomed mission where he's forced to torture one of the two people he can call a friend (Odo).
He finds love with Zial, the daughter of Gul Dukat, before she is murdered when the Cardassians flee the station again.
When the Cardassians ally with the Dominion, he is forced to engage in espionage against his own people, despite it causing him severe and repeated anxiety attacks.
And finally he looks on as the Dominion break their accords and murder 2 billion of his fellow Cardassians.
You don't become a Star Trek main character captain for the gig. You do it because you want to be the type of character that will show that no matter how bad life can dish it out, it can be handled while upholding ideals beyond what we currently hold ourselves to.
I have had bosses that really leaned into discussing lighting fixtures, metaphorically speaking.
It is a split between O'Brien, Kira, and Worf. All 3 of those characters have a lot of suffering.
Steve you forgot the time Keiko was age regressed to a teenager, that was horrible in it's own way... damn, how did that marriage survive?
I feel Cheif O'Brian constantly suffering is because he's principaled. We see him confronted with terrible things, but that's because as a chief engineer It Is His Job To Identify And Deal With Problems Before They Can Harm Someone Else. Being that person is really hard, anyone who has worked in quality assurance in a factory can attest. No one likes you, because seeing your face means something needs to be fixed and production will be slowed until it is fixed.
They never thank her for finding the problem, preventing an order from going out with bad parts, because everyone else has been given a different objective. They are all here to Do It Fast, and she's here to see It's Done Right.
People say the stuck up nail gets the hammer, but I've only felt like I've been hit when people decide Oh Its Fine To Be Negligent This One Time, I Got Places To Be! And I tell them No, You Are Being Unsafe And Making The World Less Safe For Those Around You, and then get screamed at.
Chief O Brian suffering because he investigates and discovers problems has always been deeply relatable to me, and makes me want to hug him. I am a curious person from a deeply incurious family. Every time I dare to discuss a problem, solutions are demanded in leiu of discussion. I Found It, So I Must Fix It.
Star Trek lets me fantasize about a world where people at least try to talk about stuff, and where they guy who is always finding problems gets a vacation once in a while.... even if it never works out XDD
What about Kira? She lived through the occupation of Bajor, saw I have no idea how many of her friends killed during and afterwards, kidnapped by lunatic cardassians multiple times, saw her boyfriend nearly killed in an accident only to watch him be pushed to work to death by Kai Winn, and I'm sure there's more.
Sisko suffered for years after the death of his wife trying to get past the events of Wolf 359. Dude built the first Federation warship of the 24th century because of that.