John McWhorter: ‘Woke Racism’ Has Betrayed Black America
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- čas přidán 18. 11. 2021
- Forget Robin DiAngelo, Ibram X. Kendi, and The 1619 Project. Start with ending the drug war, says the Columbia University linguist.
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"The people who are calling themselves black people saviors don't understand this, but they're hurting black people because what they're caught up in is more about virtue signaling to one another than helping people who actually need help."
That's New York Times columnist and Columbia University linguist John McWhorter talking about his best-selling new book Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America. He argues that the ideas of Robin DiAngelo, Ibram X. Kendi, and The 1619 Project undermine the success of black people by sharpening racial divides and distracting from actual obstacles to real progress.
His shortlist for what would most help black America? "There should be no war on drugs; society should get behind teaching everybody to read the right way; and we should make solid vocational training as easy to obtain as a college education."
Reason's Nick Gillespie spoke with the 56-year-old McWhorter about what white people get out of cooperating with an ideological agenda that casts them as devils, what black people gain by "performing" victimhood, and what needs to change so that all Americans can get on with creating a more perfect union.
Photo credits: Photo by BP Miller on Unsplash; Tim Evans/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom; Eddie Moore/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom; Photo by Devin Berko on Unsplash; Photo by Matheus Viana on Unsplash; Jacquie Boyd IKON Images/Newscom; John Marshall Mantel/ZUMA Press/Newscom
Music credit: "Seductive," by Evgeny Bardyuzha via Artlist.io
Audio production by by Ian Keyser, intro by Regan Taylor
![Cancel Culture and Wokeness [engl.]](/img/n.gif)
What strikes me about this man is that he answers every question directly and concisely. He has clearly thought through everything that he says and is honest about his conclusions. Very admirable.
I prefer shrieking banshees, but to each their own. /s
he is also a linguist
he is making his money by reading things, and finding ways to phrase them more concise, direct and elegant.
Some of that is the format, the interviewer is clearly letting him answer prepared questions as opposed to trying to pin him to a difficult question. That said, it's a format I prefer. I think the whole concept of 'hard hitting interviews' is fundamentally disingenuous and bankrupt. It only drives the interviewee to cough up guarded, mush-mouthed answers, or canned responses to a question the interviewer didn't ask in the first place.
yep ... We need more people with this kind of clarity.
The tragedy is that he is a such a very rare exception for his demographic. His positions and rhetoric stand alone on their own merit regardless of race, but what truly makes people want to listen to him (much like Sowell, Coleman, Owens, etc.) is that he is Black but speaking against the orthodox narrative to which we're so accustomed to seeing Blacks subscribe. The truth is that 90-95% of American Blacks think the exact opposite of what he thinks, and that makes the prospect of a truly functional multiracial society almost impossible.
When McWhorter talks about the issues with reading, it reminds me of when I was teaching remedial algebra while in graduate school. I had a lot of inner city kids in there, most of whom were in a special program and had zero interest in actually learning anything. One young man that was interested would come by my office hours to get help. After a little while, I realized that once we got past the reading of the information and he could see the math problem, he could solve it very quickly. I told him that we needed to find him help with his reading since he had good math skills. A year and a half later, I was in the education building where I was then teaching geometry for elementary school teachers and ran into this young man. He said that he was going to become a teacher because he had seen what a difference a single person can make if they pay attention and care about a student. It always showed me how very important reading was and how much it can hold back kids when they do not learn how to read.
]
One only learns if one wants to. It's a whole bunch of things that make the school sistem a failure in changing people lives, one of them is the students, another the teachers, another the rules and curriculum, etc etc.
Mr. Flusek, the point is that you are a real teacher, and dedicated teachers can make a world of difference in students' lives. Yes, teaching reading as part of teaching literacy is essential, crucial, basic. However, you were also able to zero in on that student's needs and helped him fill the gaps in his knowledge and skills. You also demonstrated genuine interest in this student's education and personal growth. This is true empowerment!
@@puraLusa Don't forget parents. If the parents don't demand academic excellence, it simply won't happen. **That** is why we can continue to throw millions at education programs and it never seems to make any difference.
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017 everyone has a role, it takes a vilage.
While I may not always agree with John McWhorter, this man is the quintessential gentleman. What a class act.
Agreed
I think the only time I didn't was when he gave the thumbs down to Glenn Lowry interviewing Charles Murray and I'm not sure but I think I was right! I love when they do disagree, that does teach us so much. Anyway, I agree and I won't try to put it better.
I’m guy who has feelings for other men. I’m very open of being bisexual 🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
He makes right-wingers feel good too so I guess that's a virtue
@@kh9242 I have difficulty imagining that :D
Wokeism has adopted many aspects of the church of Scientology in the ways that they deal with what is called SP’s .
It's scary to see a cult that America has yet to recognize "as a cult."
WOW! Interesting comment!😮😲
Oh geez. Was this a psyop?
explain SP
@@gwho Suppressive person , you know how to use Google?
Mcwhorter's skill is that he's very polite. He's a good mediator between people who are irritated with PC culture and people who believe in it.
Not only is he polite, but most importantly he knows how to articulate his points in a concise and Calm manner.
you see what we got here is the first mainstream african american thats bright, articulate and clean.
- joe biden
Mr. Resident, might i introduce you to john here? or thomas sowell? or malcom x?or an effing plethora of other bright articulate clean men that have existed since basically forever?
@@SubieNinja Biden is a real racist. Kamala was actually right about that, but because she's an empty careerist she didn't mind running on the same ticket with one.
Yeah he's one of the few people you can send links to wokies and they might actually be able to hear what he's saying.
By the same token, he's a little too polite. He should have called out that fraud Nikole Hannah Jones at the end but he was too afraid of losing his new gig at the NYT (which is a fucking joke of a paper now).
"PC culture" as it thought of today is a myth. Across the political spectrum, opposing views about terminology and right thinking are espoused. I'm reminded of a piece by Thomas Sowell in which he insisted that the homeless should be called bums and wetlands should be called swamps. Some feel that language or behavior that can be seen as excluding, marginalizing, or insulting to groups of people is incorrect. Others feel no compunction to avoid such language and behavior. Each and every one involved in the resultant disputes feel that their opinion is correct. The rignt-wing pot is calling the left-wing kettle black. "Cancel culture" is general across the totality of political thought.
Clearest thinking and most reasonable man in America. "I have a nostalgia for a time I never knew."
That's a great line
The feeling is called, 'Anemoia'.
I get struck by it when viewing art (I like historical and realism) or listening to music that connects with me.
Clearly, this is true. I'm a little older than he is. A Black woman who was raised on Doris Day and Audrey Hepburn as role models. I didn't know that there were Black people in movies until I was an adult. I'm very happy that things are better now.
Poetic
Literally everything else aside, John has probably one of my favorite voices. I dunno what it is, but I love listening to him talk.
He has more speaking charisma than most people I've ever heard speak publicly.
Anti-woke ASMR
He has what I call an "NPR Voice" (which can be BOTH a compliment and an insult). I say that because many "NPR Voices" kind of have a calming/hypnotic effect on not just me, but I suspect many others, and I suspect that is NOT an accident.
I would highly recommend his (non-political) linguistics podcast Lexicon Valley.
@@razzle_dazzle This man's voice + linguistics?? Hell yes! Thank you!
I always breath a sigh of relief when I see this man on the News or a Podcast.... We are all not Crazy! Social Justice is about rights for ALL! Not division of ALL! I know he is a linguist by study, and his language choices are very obvious to me to counter the "woke" or the "extremism" other intellects or media saturated language that is being used. It is like the Media gets together and says "these words are all you can say". And really that is exactly what they do. Every GOOD Fiction Novel needs a verbal narrative! They have written this verbal narrative...Without ANY objection allowed!
John McWhorter: ‘ Has Betrayed Black America
While we strive for social justice for all, we must remember to triage because some groups experiencing social injustice may die from the hemorrhage while we attempt to bandage everyone equally at the same rate and time.
Quite right....but there is a long history that has led up to this point.....and these political and cultural attempts to control how people think, via what language they use....these various "narratives" are actually well thought out methods of both Marxism and post modernism, which have been around for well over 100 years....and which have been employed by both Stalin and Mao and other totalitarians to control nations....
New Discourses podcasts by James Lindsay covers all this....4000 hours worth.....a bit about him....Lindsay is a PhD in Math who was also a new atheist, attacking religion along with Dawkins et al. However, around early 2010s....the new atheists started to be attacked by the radical left....and they were caught off guard, since they thought of themselves a leftists. At this point, they stopped attacking religion(primarily Christianity), and began to read the literature of the Grievance studies departments,(Women's studies, Black studies, Gender studies, Fat studies, etc.). They were horrified. Lindsay has spent the last 7 years trying to get the information about just how bad these departments are, and the danger their religious zeal for the destruction of western civilization represents, and how the 1%er globalists are funding a lot of this stuff.
@@mackmckinney5206 Nobody claiming to be fighting for social justice is striving for social justice for all. "Social justice for all" is just a catchphrase and a dog whistle; it really means "let's punish white people for being born white, punish men for being born male, and punish rich people for being prosperous."
That's not justice, and it's not for all.
You reveal yourself by talking about identity groups experiencing injustice; that's the nonsensical approach that Marxists always take, and it's what leads people into hypocritical idiocy that is blatantly racist and sexist in the name of combating racism and sexism.
Fuck Marxism.
@@motisbeard yawn,
I learned at age 11 in school about the ancient Kingdoms of Africa and never felt my history was not something to be proud of.
That is tragic, but don't despair. Do NOT hesitate to watch "Africa's Greatest Civilizations" by Henry Louis Gates Jr, if you have not seen it already. His documentary "Being Black in Latin America" is eye opening as well. You wanna try wearing a "tin-foil-hat"??? Do some inquiry into the possibility of the Olmecs in Mexico and RUMORED connections to Africans! Interesting to say the least, but don't bring such a subject up at a University Faculty Cocktail Party because you might cause the entire room to go quiet at once.😂😂
Think also "Kon Tiki" by Thor Heyrdahl??
Also you might want to watch The Great Courses "From Lucy to Mandela" to learn more about "Africanism" (If I may coin a term). It is taught by a white man, and may lack "pizzazz" but it IS very informative.
Perhaps not Kon Tiki but I think Thor Heyrdahl had some kind of expedition from the continent of Africa in a "primitive" floating craft to perhaps demonstrate that it IS or WAS possible that Africans crossed the Atlantic to the "New World" LOOOONG before Columbus or even The Vikings of Northern Europe?? (He may have been talking about ancient Egyptians?? Been decades since I looked at the book "The Ra Expeditions"??)
What makes you think that’s “your” history…??? Africa is a continent and not a country.
I have moved from Uk to rural Kenya - Yes it is 'backward' - BUT i feel at home and i love it.. Who cares about history anyway.. i love the african default of living in the present - the west feels dead, empty by comparison - actually thats not true - well sort of and to be honest i have no idea how to express.- but i know i will never go back
It depends!
Great conversation. It's no wonder the legacy media is on its knees when it won't allow for nuance and discussion on these important issues. Keep the conversation going.
Rubbish!
Look up the book woke ink
Do you ever watch PBS? Lots of nuance and discussion.
@@t.j.mccarthy3517 This video here is so inferior to the Racism-Coverge and 1 Jim-Crow-Video of
'Some More News', its unbelievable.
I have been a huge fan of McWhorter for over a decade, I remember listening to his "great courses: language/linguists something something" It was engaging enough that a couple homework assignments suffered. His current philosophical courage is crucial for modern society. He has always been brilliant, but his mindset is not soaked in victimhood, and I've yet to meet someone who's intelligence thrives under such victim animosity. He is a great role model and seems like a great person to have a beer with. I have a couple questions I would love to ask him one of these days...
Yes, I have a couple of his Great Courses. And at least two of his books.
That course was my first experience with him too!
Yup...That is how I "met" him too.
My biggest problem with him and of social media in general is that people are mistaking themselves and others that they agree with for the Einstein's of social media.
For instance, between him, Peterson, Shapiro, Jon Stewart, etc. They're all saying things that anyone with common sense can objectively agree or disagree with.
Social media is full of ignorance, and they seem to only combat those voices with common sense.
None of them however are innovative enough to mold consensus. They're no Hitler(in rhetoric) or even MLK of the current social landscape. They bring up reality to combat ignorance. But true innovative rhetoric bridges reality to a shared vision of the future.
They state the obvious, yet they're celebrated as if they're geniuses.
@@dodgermartin4895 This video here is so inferior to the Racism-Coverge and 1 Jim-Crow-Video of
'Some More News', its unbelievable.
'Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket'. Eric Hoffer, The Temper of Our Time
Every fake cause. I don’t know about any abolitionist business (other then possibly US and British navy’s hunting slave traders for a couple decades). If a cause correctly identified a problem it tends to just get fixed. If you need a business to continuously address the issue then you haven’t addressed the actual problem. If the answer isn’t more liberty then you probably haven’t identified the actual problem.
As a bald person, I feel discriminated by Nick's hair. I want reparations.
DON'T BE A SIMPLETON. ANY RACE OF PEOPLE CAN BE BALD.
YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM.
@@pdcdesign9632 Nick's hair is fake BTW.
He does have a beautiful rug.
@@MrGuzmanra Okay I was wondering.....that is a beautiful head of hair!
Stop it... don't do this. It doesn't help advance the conversation on race. Bald people have not experienced discrimination, racism, slavery etc as a function of their baldness. Your statement is just devoid of any understanding of history, race etc. You can critique the reparations movement without making these kinds of unintelligent comparisons ( it just makes you look like a bad faith actor).
Can we get John McWhorter and Dave Chappelle together for a conversation? That would be interesting.
They would agree on very little except for free speech. Chappelle is very woke on every issue other than that
Chapelle is a preacher. McWhorter is a thinker
"Interesting"? Perhaps. Though I suspect someone like John might be a little too smart and/or cautious, and I dare say, "classy," to want to engage in a broadcast public conversation with Mr. Chappelle. (But who knows? In private they could be best friends and actually attend Monster Truck shows together???)
@@jebidiahnewkedkracker1025 Chappelle was raised in an upper middle class family by a father who was a college professor. He can talk just like JMW when he wants to (that's why he does funny "white people" voices so well). His ghetto speak is more of an act than his regular speaking voice.
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017 I did not know that, thank you for the info. I just thought of Mr. Chappelle that he was a comic genius, and may have grown up in "Rough Country", and comedy was a ticket out of it for him. Consider me "schooled".
"People that saw Sideways kind of people"
hilarious
He cringed at the idea of his kids being a mechanic or AC repairman. That was funny and a little cringe in itself.
Thought it was funny to belong to a demographic I was unaware of.
I have no political affiliation ...was I not supposed to see "Sideways"? Oops.
How wonderful to listen to someone with a truly informed and thoroughly thought through opinion who can express themselves so clearly.
Academic Trash Talk
the very opposite of woke SJW BLM
Nick Gillespie is an excellent interviewer. Can't wait to read John's book.
I do give Nick a lot of credit for the tone of this interview. So calm, no invective nonsense.
I especially like his suggestion at about the 1 hour mark, that we’re all mutts, which is true, at least genetically.
I just wish he would let the guy talk without constantly interrupting. Nick asks good questions, but then stops the man in the middle of his answers.
Without a doubt one of the best things to happen to me in the last ten years was discovering RedEye on Fox News. I might have never known of these two gentlemen if not for that show. Not to mention so many other people, I’m forever grateful. I might not agree with John on everything but I know he’s open minded enough to engage in conversations on any topic, love Nick also. Last time I saw someone wear so much black clothing was The Ramones, I often think of him as the fifth Ramone. An excellent conversation.
Enjoyed this dialogue. As a 67 year old educated black grandmother, I appreciate your deep thought on wokeism. I am one of thise folks that say "NO" often to family, fruends, church members. I have been an active Republican for 30 years and an admirer of Thomas Sowell's writings
Readers are leaders!!
A problem is, not enough black MEN readers..
Hopefully I'm seeing rap music go down, at least the anti BW kind
@@kathleenking47 I don't see rap music going away anytime soon. People need to stop listening to and purchasing rap music. That would help it go away.
Sending love and gratitude to you
Let’s not focus on getting rid of rap music but making a good alternative to rap music. Like christian rap or kanye west tryna do some good or other rappers that actually rap about themes that matter
@@veronicahaney6005 This video here is so inferior to the Racism-Coverge and 1 Jim-Crow-Video of
'Some More News', its unbelievable.
John once again proves why he is such a needed voice of reason in these times
He's shouting into the void for the most part. He and Glen Loury aren't even making a dent.
White Mainstream racist academic crap in Black
Is she helping, though? Is he actually doing what he is preaching. A lo of young black men need his mentorship. Is he just touring for book deals and money and then leaving it at that? I hope he is instilling structures to help on the ground rather than just talking because I am done with "talkers".
(Probably overly simplistic) It sounds like in the 1960's "Black Activism" was "active" while post 1970's "activism" has become passive as "victimization"
Woke used to mean alert/informed when I learned the word back 2010 just from context, then it was coopted smh
Sure, but it always meant being alert/informed against the common narrative, to see root problems that escaped those who were still asleep in the comfort of the "common knowledge."
@@homewall744 better def
Woke was a term only black people used. Then it got jacked and turned out.
@@anonymousperson1092 The republicans were socialist before Trump as well.
@@f__kyoudegenerates Statist but it’s the same thing in the end.
J Mcwhorter " I am here to make white folks comfortable"
Yeah, he and Voddie Buncham!😙
Ivory tower nerds dictating the rules of social engagement hasn't been cool since ever lolz.
It's like a religion because it relies on and lives outside of objective truth, and subscribing to it is an act of faith.
"I'm not saying we need family values." You should...you should say that.
The question becomes what family values are those values
i miss liberals like john mcwhortor - people who are reasonable and have common sense.
They are few and far between these days.
Guys, i was born in 1976. I grew up with black men I idolized and posted on my walls. Micheal Jackson. Tony Dorsett. Micheal Jordan. I loved rap and wanted to be cool and wear black dress styles. I envied the black kids on the playground.
I knew one black kid that was teased because he was a quiet nerd. Not because he was black.
I also saw Lincoln as a hero for "freeing" the slaves. This is my generation.
Folks, it means something SIGNIFICANT. A white supremacist culture does not raise its white kids admiring black people and black influences.
Because we don’t have a white supremacist culture.
@@hsmd4533 sure
thats why you don't see a lot of admiration of blacks in the more conservative areas of the country. My friend used to listen to hip hop, then he started hanging around conservatives and he only listens to country.
Lol please 😒
I already loved his book "The language hoax", at least someone who has an understanding for how liberal societies should function.
McWorter is a liberal. He said it in this interview he said it in his book. 15% of the Democratic Party is peddling this woke nonsense. On the right some percentage is peddling Q and the big Lie. Crazy is crazy no matter where you are politically
@@belisarius2776 People act as if you are _either_ a full liberal _or_ a full conservative. It's like they forgot that there are people very much in between the two.
@@Finkelfunk yeah im one of them
@@belisarius2776 Different sides of the SAME coin.
@@belisarius2776 15%? Nope. It's more. At the very, very least it's twice that.
He's right about teaching reading; whole language theory was a dismal failure at teaching kids to read.
Amen!
You sound like a disgruntled ex teacher . If you are , rightfully so. These schools are failing our kids
I wish more people would listen to this guy. It would make this world a much better place.
I don't generally like or trust the NYTs based on its history but John McWhorter is a treasure, an honest academic. I Love him.
John hit a home run when he said "teach children (Black and White) how to read! Don't underestimate that recommendation!!!
And teach them right!
He speaks the truth.
As a white person I am okay with him speaking towards me about this too! It calls out quite alot of this amazing game that keeps the system churning forward!
John's a great guy, intelligent, articulate, thoughtful. But there's one criticism of him that I have, and it's that he refuses to blame anyone for anything. The buck doesn't seem to stop anywhere, and that's actually a big problem when it comes to taking action. Though he would disagree with the idea when put to him like this, John's manner of speaking around these issues seems to imply that individuals aren't really responsible for their actions in the final analysis because they grow up around what they know and they know what they grow up around, and so they behave the only way they know how.
The absurdity of this reduction becomes clear when you think of it this way: How did anyone ever make anything better? How did anyone ever get their act together and do better? How does one improve themselves? The answer to all these things is that they make a decision to do it and they commit to that decision. Where do they get the notion to do such a thing? Well they have a role model right? And where do we get role models from? We get them from people who decide to be better without a prior example to follow. From people who are not simply mindless sheep enslaved by their environments. If some human beings are capable of this, then we all are in theory.
John's sympathies / disposition / politics turn him away from making bottom line analyses like this. His interlocutor over on Bloggingheads.tv, Glenn Loury, makes them frequently and I admire him for it. But John does not. There's an old Stoic idea that in terms of judgement, you should be tolerant with others but strict with yourself. Right now people are being extremely tolerant of their own flaws, even going so far as to twist them into positives, claiming they're somehow more authentic. We need to teach people to be strict with themselves and stop excusing themselves from self-improvement.
I agree completely. I constantly get the sense he doesn't want to upset his betters. Glen Loury is more direct and will let rip when needed, like when he wrote that letter to Brown University tearing them a new one about their Antiracist manifesto.
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017 Gotta blame people for their mistakes. It’s very intellectual to remind people of context and circumstances, but such things should never be used as an excuse for wilful bad behaviour.
@@patrickkilroy6512 _"seems to imply that individuals aren't really responsible for their actions in the final analysis because they grow up around what they know and they know what they grow up around, and so they behave the only way they know how"_
Welcome to determinism, my friend. Or, if you don't like philosophy, welcome to the conclusion of every sociologist since Durkheim onward.
_"How did anyone ever make anything better?"_
Why were so few people abolitionists at the height of slavery? It's the same answer to why so few people leave a religion to which their whole community belongs. Only 1 in 100 people can do such a thing, and you're asking the other 99 to also do it.
_" We get them from people who decide to be better without a prior example to follow. From people who are not simply mindless sheep enslaved by their environments."_
Tell me, can you think of more than a few times when you consciously decided to be better than your peers, based on careful consideration of sound argumentation? And if you can, how many of those choices did you make without a prior example to follow? If the answer is none, would you say you're a mindless sheep enslaved by your environment? Or simply a human with predictable responses to social stimuli?
Overall, for someone who seems to know something of Stoic philosophy, your attitude isn't very Stoic - even though you're aware of that fact.
@@razzle_dazzle (If the response is too long we can have a discussion about each point in its own if you prefer).
I like philosophy just fine. And I take great issue with determinism, as you might imagine. I believe in scientific cause and effect in the natural world, and I believe that human psychology is susceptible to manipulation by external forces / stimuli, but I do not believe that humans have no free will. We possess a consciousness and we possess rational faculties. There would be no evolutionary purpose to our possession of consciousness if it did not permit us to make ad hoc decisions. That is will enough to make determinism a radical proposition. It’s more of a thought experiment than an empirical observation, that’s for sure.
And it’s for that reason that I also take issue with so much of modern sociology. I’m a big believer in quantitative analysis of social issues for the purposes of understanding how people act in crowds, but I abhor the notion that human beings can be calculated as though they were a physical force or quantity. It’s quite silly. Durkheim is a very influential sociologist, but he’s not the full picture. Though I haven’t done a thorough study of him, Max Weber appeals to me far more.
There’s a core philosophical flaw in John McWhorter’s apparent attitude to blame, as there is in the concept of determinism. An unmoved mover problem. An uncaused cause. That was the main point I was trying to make with the question of where role models come from. Obviously it would be quite naïve to expect all people to become Nietzschean supermen. It’s not going to happen. But you bring up the abolitionist movement. Who drove that movement? That 1% of educated elites who were able to persuade the general public of their cause. In the modern day, that analogous educated elite is the very group that pushes the “you have no moral power and you’re at the mercy of social systems” narrative. So we don’t even have that 1%. This is a travesty. It has to stop. People need to stop relinquishing their free will and start training themselves in it.
As for when I’ve consciously decided to be better than my peers: I do it all the time. Regularly. I make a point of it. Not out of arrogance, but as a commitment to be better. For my own sake. I’ve been told I’m unusual in that respect, but shouldn’t everyone? Because this is what it’s a question of: “should”. That’s a moral question. That’s a choice. Why are we encouraging people not to make the right choice? We already struggle with our irrational impulses. Why are educated people telling us resist them even less? I’m not saying we should expect everyone to be perfect. But it’s perfectly reasonable to expect people to try and be better. That’s the most basic moral request there is. If we can’t ask for even that, then we’re declaring that there is no morality at all.
The question of role models simply isn’t an excuse anymore. History is replete with them. All cultures have past paragons to make appeal to. There is always an example of better behaviour to follow. (Though I maintain that this is not where betterment begins or ends. There has to be those few who push the envelope in their exemplary behaviour, going above and beyond to live their principles).
I don’t believe morality is something to be preserved for the elites of the world. I think all people benefit from it, and all people should be expected to at least value it in theory even if they have to frequently make compromises in its practice. (That’s life, I know). To expect less is indeed to declare the masses mindless sheep enslaved by their environment.
I’m not sure what your remark about my Stoic credentials is about. I don’t see any contradiction in my statements. I can be personally stoic, but that doesn’t mean I should never advocate for others to change their behaviour. That would be a radical suggestion.
@@patrickkilroy6512 Long replies are fine by me :)
_"I believe in scientific cause and effect in the natural world"_
You believe that the mind arises from the brain's activity, right? And that our brains are part of the natural world? So how can that chain of cause and effect be interrupted? By a soul?
_"There would be no evolutionary purpose to our possession of consciousness if it did not permit us to make ad hoc decisions."_
The evolutionary advantage of consciousness is still not clear. An AI can make ad hoc decisions, but it is not conscious. "What can we do now that we couldn't do if we were p-zombies?" is a surprisingly difficult question to answer.
_"I abhor the notion that human beings can be calculated as though they were a physical force or quantity"_
That doesn't make it false, though, does it?
_"Why are we encouraging people not to make the right choice?"_
This is actually one of the paradoxes of sociology: "Don't have children until you're married" is undoubtedly great advice on an individual level, but we can't craft policy assuming everyone will do that.
_"But it’s perfectly reasonable to expect people to try and be better."_
I'm in agreement here. In particular, praise and blame are amazingly effective tools that people respond predictably to (which makes them consistent with determinism).
_"So we don’t even have that 1%"_
Don't be so pessimistic! They aren't traditional elites, but they are people like John McWhorter who are brave enough to speak up to injustice when they see it, in an elegant and persuasive way that appeals to almost everyone. And yes, there are ordinary people who push the envelope in their exemplary behavior, much like abolitionists did. I happen to think vegans are a modern-day example of this. So morality isn't preserved for the elites, but at the same time, not everyone's equipped to think of abstract moral concepts and apply them consistently. Think of your peers - do they really have the ability to make choices as good as you, all things considered?
The Stoic comment was just a reference to the principle that you should be tolerant of others' actions that you can't change, which would include actions that are heavily socially conditioned.
Refreshing to listen to a black professor speak without anger and emotion on a touchy subject as race. McWhorter speaks for a silent majority of we blacks. He is well thought out and self aware. I enjoy listening to him, though not always agreeing, he challenges my premises by presenting his own. Great interview BTW.
Black people don't need your approval to be angry at the USA's racism.
Exactly 💯 signed proud black woman
Same, I don't agree with some of what he says, I feel he glosses over certain subjects like the kilings of Trayvon Martin and Mike Brown, but overall I agree with his premise. I love his pragmatic and sensible approach to systemic racism, the "woke" approach is just WRONG on so many levels.
Reading is important because it gives us access to CZcams comments.
OMG, this guy is great. It takes a linguist to really tease out the problems in wokeness
I feel like I was in class; ‘what an education. Thank you.
Thank God, we still have intelligent people in the US. God bless John McWhorter.
Its so weird to me that people seem to think social science issues (such as racism in America) are univariate and can be explained by one factor , when in reality almost any social issue is multivariate. I say this as a Dutch person.
Take a set of behaviors you'd like to extinguish, reinforce the notion that those behaviors are motivated by a single variable connoting great controversies throughout history, define that variable nebulously enough that you can find evidence of it damn near anywhere and you have a recipe for what we're seeing with the way in which _racism_ and its current accompanying terms are used today.
Isn't amazing when an interviewer and an interview subject have intellects and eloquence & the interview isn' t put out there to shove an agenda down the viewing public's throat? This was great.
Great discussion guys, thank you. After listening to Professor McWhorter in many, many podcasts it struck me here that the power of language spoken properly is very powerful. I've overlooked this in the past or was not thinking carefully about the importance language plays in life success but this discussion really illuminated this point. Perhaps one pragmatic step we could take is a reinforced and focused effort in poor communities to teach proper english. Professor McWhorter is a living example of how powerful and influential well spoken ideas can be.
John McWhorter:Has Betrayed Black America
I'm in total agreement. In addition, more attention should be given to the teaching of literature, especially the great classics, so that students can learn from the greatest minds of the past, learn to appreciate the beauty of the language, and develop critical thinking skills. Incidentally, John McWhorter also teaches comparative literature at Columbia University.
I bought the book. Thanks, Dr. McWhorter for writing it!
John McWhorter: ’ Has Betrayed Black America
@@thinkdoctorpublications3113 NO! YOU are betraying not just Black America, YOU are betraying all of America. There is not a single thing BLM has down for Black America except to sow the seeds of division, and enrich their "founders". Lets see their IRS 990 Report!!!!!
John is so genuine. he never dances around interview questions. I really enjoy listening to his perspective.
John McWhorter is more of a libertarian than he thinks he is.
Probably. In terms of social policy, there is very little difference between libertarians and 1960's liberals such as him.
@@chaoticoli09 That is what I suspect.
John McWhorter was a featured speaker at the Liberty Festival in late July 2021 in Rapid City, SD. FYI.
He doesn't touch kids so he inherently can't be a libertarian.
@@tigeroix9759 That isn't very bright.
“Systemic Racism” is merely used for double talk. They like to say the system is racist and then conflate that with the classic definition of racism to stir up a mob of rage.
“If racism is so bad today, you don’t need a qualifier- ‘systemic racism, institutional racism, pernicious racism,’ etc.” - Victor Davis Hanson
What’s the classic definition of racism?
@@jollyrancherchick
The classic definition of racism is judging someone by the color of there skin / heritage not the content of there character.
Systemic racism states the group in political power are the only ones who can be racist, and racism manifest itself by being beneficial to the group in power.
The left have twisted this to mean only white people can be racist. And it's not by there individual actions or choices, it's merely "Whiteness" that makes them racist.
The way that the left actually applies "systemic racism" meets the classic definition racism. Because it's genuinely judging white people do to race. I talked to a girl from Philly who is incapable of comprehending That white people in the Appalachian Mountains are the poorest communities in America. She believed that they were privileged merely because they were white. Ironically this was a blonde Italian who was actually engaging in racism against other white people. Not reverse racism but actual racism, Judging somebody by the color of their skin not the content of their character.
Welfare is systematic racism, education and learning business skills and work ethics is liberation!
I've seen John McWhorter debate and talk with Don Lemon on TV and he's able to make his point clearly, precisely and politely,
He's a very smart man, the left would be wise to listen to his warnings about wokeness
I hope he is smart. He does teach at an Ivy League school.
Wokeness doesn't bother me. I prefer it over pre 1960 conservative segregation era of the USA.
There was a time that Don Lemon would agree with McWhorter. That would be unthinkable today
@@AarmOZ84 And a real subject too!
53:00 this part onwards needs to be Heard more often , it's very important
From my POV, I m 50, I saw the tides of turn in the late 70's '80s, many wealthy blacks, and a fusion of music and mainstream. Then in the 90's young contemporary young blacks adopted rap thug culture. we saw an explosion of gang violence. And polarization in the black family. A lot of blacks getting caught up in the law, the police brutality spiked at the same time there we had never been such good race relations. We have seen a lofty convenience of the subculture that looks to a reason for idle mobility and rhythm and reason for a sloppy moral fortitude.. Not even 50 years ago black question their potential for a better and better life. Today you have all the means and no will.
John McWhorter: ‘Has Betrayed Black America
@@thinkdoctorpublications3113 blacks have betrayed blacks just look at who are actually killing blacks in Chicago...yea other blacks.
This is excellent content. Well done. I found the ending particularly disturbing, as it reflects what has become one of the greatest threats to free speech. That his position in society is at risk because he says things that are not inherently hateful or racists but rather that merely differ from what has become the mainstream view is frightening
John McWhorter: ‘Has Betrayed Black America
Hello from Dublin, Ireland 🇮🇪. Just discovered your channel.
McWhorter makes conservatives feel warm and fuzzy, and he does it eloquently. He’s no dummy. He knows what he’s doing. He could’ve titled his book, “Woke Racism: How a New Religion Betrayed Anti-Racism”, and not changed a single word between the covers. But that would’ve attracted a more liberal audience.
Ironically though, he is extremely liberal and he says he has always voted for Democrats.
I recently watched your guest on the View, and I thought his perspective was fascinating, especially on how Wokeism promotes victimization. I have just purchased his book and looking forward to reading it.
I am a linguist, too, and I've always respected Mr. McWhorter's views. Now I see his social views, and I'm in awe of his high intellect and perception. Although his views don't line up with mine (that's quite okay), he's seeing things that I see (so-called "white privilege", "wokeness", retro-segregationists like Kendi) and calling them out. I've had to learn not just to stand up, but to *fight* (verbally) these religious lefties. And I do. Mr. McWhorter is not one of them. May your God bless you and keep you, sir.
How does he know that "Travon Martin was a very different person that you've been led to believe?" It's hard to accept this as just a flat out statement with no substantiation. Very disappointing.
Damn, that was very thoughtful and well spoken. Well done guys.
Great points! I was thinking about my dad who grew up in North Carolina during the Jim Crow era. He was Black/White/Native American and he viewed himself as a Black man because he was told this by his parents and also by the White racist society he grew up in.
He probably LOOKED full black.
Alfonso Ribeiro is biracial and looks full black (carlton on FRESH PRINCE ) Eartga Kitt, Etta James, Bob Marley
I didn't think Ribero, nor Kitt were, until I saw their Children
Thry look WHITE
1969 Gen X here.
We had racism on the ropes. We laughed at racist jokes but regarded racist people as fools stuck in the horrible past we were lucky to be born after. In the 90's if you were against racism it just meant you were a regular person.
Anthrax and Public Enemy on stage collab is all the proof I needed.
In the 90's in south central PA we brought some of the 1st black bouncers across the river from Harrisburg. A lot of us were kickboxers, kung fu guys (remember pre-UFC being legal everywhere), wrestlers, who knew on the mats, in the ring, we all bleed the same color.
And the patrons, the people were different. We didn't cancel people. The dude making the hardcore racist jokes usually got the hint that nobody was laughing. It was a sly accountability, and we had tough conversations without worrying about pissing each other off.
There are always going to be racist individuals. It is already illegal to discriminate against people by Race, Religion, Sex, Disability, and other immutable characteristics. I investigated Federal and State discrimination complaints for 8 years. There are many instances of racism. And it was awesome helping people through it and holding accountable those who are unwilling to provide equal access/opportunity to everyone. There are also many many instances where the human experience of being surrounded by our own misperceptions led to a misunderstanding. Many accusations of racism were when the employer or landlord doesn't give a reason for their actions and the person is left to their assumptions. Those assumptions and feelings for how things are generally going are shaped by information the person gets. If every source of information is telling them white supremacists are lurking everywhere, that no matter how hard they work it will not matter because of racism, it doesn't take a phd to figure out what the majority of humans in that situation would assume.
Often once I had the parties talking and information was shared, they at least understood the other's perspective. I never made them admit the other guy's position was right or that their own was wrong, I just asked that they both just understand it is 100% guaranteed two people experiencing the same thing will each have a different perception of that event.
Too much togetherness isn't good for the ones sticking it to us so Division has become the game once again.
They need White Supremacy to be a boogeyman. The big trial that just wrapped up and the response afterwards is proof. Anyone who watched the news and not the trial should feel white supremacist got away with taking a machine gun across state lines and shot 3 black people. NONE OF THAT HAPPENED and it is easily known for the past year. This is no mistake. This is intentional.
The President said I didnt watch the trial but I trust in the jury system. Then puts out a statement saying "The verdict left many Americans angry and concerned, myself included"
He did not watch the trial but is angry at the veridict?? The President is angry about the decision most reasonable people who watched the trial believe is correct. This seems intentional? How can this do anything but divide people?
Don't let the tablet, TV, phone, or teachers make you hate your neighbor. Keep using your heads folks and talk to each other!
Chris Forever Young
I appreciate the thoughtfulness of this post Bro. Big ups on your personal journey to the realization (and actual recognition) that we're all just people trying to make them ends meet.
I had a similar journey. Like most black folks in America my family taught me to mistrust 'The (white) Man'. When I joined the Fire Department most of my co-workers were white and there were some serious racial issues, but over time I recognized our common humanity and goals. As individuals we were actually good people and as a group we came together awesomely to function as a team saving lives and property. I loved that experience, and I love those cats who made that awakening possible. However, there is always a grey lining in every silver cloud.
My individual experience aside, the aggregate evidence points toward ugly facts. Black people, whose families have been in America far longer than many white immigrant families, are still the poorest in America (not counting the actual 'Americans'). We are 2-3X more likely to be jailed for SIMILAR crimes than whites: derailing families and (MOST IMPORTANTLY) intergenerational wealth to this day. And while it's true that the rich prey opportunistically on all races in America, unless someone accepts the premise that black people are ignorant/lazy/inferior; something appears to be amiss w the math over the last 153 years.
This not-so-curious situation is what America should acknowledge and address, all individual experience aside. This is how we end resentment, recriminations, and mistrust between people of good will who share a truly common experience in America. I don't see that specific realization expressed informally in white communities or concretely through national policy (Affirmative Action aside).
Cancelation, white guilt, and wokeness are poor substitutes for honest assessment and action. Sorry for length. Not sorry for the exchange my man.
John, needing to be able to say what you think is the essence of being American. The world is full of Americans who don't live here, yet.
Quick note, Dr. King died in 1968; the reference used at the 14:00 mark, suggests he stopped speaking in the summer of 1963. Dr. King was an advocate for Black Power, he dedicated a major speech to it and a chapter in his final book. He also explained why the slogan was necessary and very healthy in his Massey Lectures. Beyond Dr. King, the transformation he is referencing didn't occur how Mr. McWorton is suggesting; yes Southern Segregation was ripped wide open by 1970 but much of the society wasn't walking towards Black people with Open Arms. By decades end, Dr. King was dead, Nixon and the FBI had declared war on Black activism and the congress seemed incapable of solving ghetto poverty (read the book Rule and Ruin for more on this), something Dr. King lamented about in 1966 and 1967. Interestingly, Mr. McWorton's insistence on defining Black Power Advocates argument as being "we can't do things because you won't let us" is simplistic, but it is also somewhat correct. In Dr. King's Massey Lecture #1 he talks about the limitations placed in the way of ascending Black professionals - was Dr. King mistaken? Was the attempts to gain black studies programs without aggression - mistaken, when they're non-violent systems basic approach was met with disdain, ridicule and dismissal, resulting in sit-ins, marches and capture campaigns to force the universities to acquiesce to student demands?
Yeah, I find that some like to conscript MLK into whatever championship serves their ends. Also, it seems he's somewhat venerated as the foremost authority on race relations in America and, due to this, that some tend to support their views regarding such relations with his words, in a rather _argumentum ad verecundiam_ sorta way. King's claims are as supported by facts, or not, as McWhorter's claims, or those of any other person. The task of demonstrating the efficacy of one form of activism or another is far from complete if all you've done is show that MLK would plausibly have approved of this or that action.
More broadly, I see no reason to assume that only activism within a particular range of behaviors (e.g. variations of violent prostest) will be, or would have been, of instrumental value to the activist. What decides whether or not a person, group, community or culture is _persuaded_ (i.e. made more likely to emit some behavior) is dependent on identifying critical contingencies of reinforcement for those individuals and social environments and arranging environments in ways which supply those contingencies. Positive or negative reinforcements, as well as punishments, may work toward this end.
Mlk did not die,He was killed! HELLO!
Focusing constantly on race/color makes things about race and ruins so much.
Race-craze.
I'm fed up with it.
Do people want or don't want race issues?
Yesn't.
i love this guy. leftists and religious conversatives are virtually identical. they mirror each other in so many ways.
When ever I see Interviews with John, I can't help but think of another man with the same last name, frank. He was a freed slave he worked hard and bought the freedom of him family during slavery. He bought land in Illinois and started a town, New Philadelphia, that was non segregated. The first in America like it founded in the USA by a black man. Sadly the town dies when the railroads came through and skipped the town, this was after Frank's passing.
I live near this town, I always wonder if John is a descendent, that would be a wonderful poetry.
Thank you Nick for bringing John McWhorter to us. I've been following him for more than 10 years, first about linguistics, then about his thinking on race and social issues. What a great talker! - I could listen to him read from the telephone book!
John McWhorter: Has Betrayed Black America
Funny. Me too!
"I would rather sell pencils on the street or have to live on somebody's couch than not say what I have to say". That shows courage and integrity, especially since the pencil market is rapidly drying up.
I am someone from the political right who always is seeking out new sources of information, especially legitimate intellectuals from the political left. I'm very fond of John McWhorter.
I do find it funny though that he dismisses the political rights solutions as "tired", and then at the end of this interview when he gets into his solutions, they are all the solutions of the political right.
Nonetheless I still have a lot of respect for him and find his work very valuable and important.
Glen Loury is even smarter than John and even more well-spoken if you ask me. I think McWhorter is too circumspect and afraid to offend (though Glen is a careful speaker he speaks hard truths much more willingly).
Maybe not what you'd term a "legitimate intellectual", but look up the streamer Destiny, particularly his coverage of the Rittenhouse case and his clashes with other left-leaning people about it. I think you'll find he's very fair-minded (while also being pretty inflammatory, lol).
Also, I just got to the part of the interview you mentioned, and I have to say, there is no way that ending the war on drugs is a solution of the political right.
You might be interested in the People's Forum. They stand with Assange. The NYC FJB crowd might be People's Forum members.
John McWhorter: Has Betrayed Black America
One of the most brilliant minds today. Nick is terrific too, a worthy interviewer.
Love John McWhorten. A true voice of reason!
"They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long"
What an enjoyable and informative interview. I'm proud to be a 'mut'.
Wow. My mind is blown. He has clearly articulated a lot of things I have felt or thought.
I love his ttc lectures, what a pleasant surprise it is to
find that I agree with his politics.
Awesome conversation !!! We need a lot more of talks like this !! Thanks.
excellent - nice to have your long form interviews
Just barely started the audiobook, and it is fantastic so far. Great writing and a timely topic
I agree with John's 3 points. I think we need to add one more which is free, readily available birth control and education on how to use it.
Unwanted pregnancy, I think, is one of the core causes of breakdown in the community. A young mother with no financial resources and little family support has a baby she doesn't mean to with a man who isn't committed, her prospects for job training or education drop considerably, the child is raised in a comprised situation, likely in a bad neighborhood himself with little support, and the cycle just repeats itself.
I'm pretty sure teen pregnancy is falling. Not fast enough, but it is.
Very interesting chat. Thanks.
Very eloquent and an important voice right now for sure
Brilliant content!
One of the things I would like to see done is redistributing some funds away from universities that spend hundreds of millions on athletic budgets and put those funds for financial aid scholarships at trade schools and community colleges in more of the poverty stricken areas. Some of the funds could also be used for graduates of these trade schools to relocate out of poverty areas to where there are more jobs available. This will help create a larger middle class from those poor communities.
Fuck redistribution.
@@fredrickmiller6534 I wasn't talking about reparations. I was talking about moving funds from one education system (universities) to another system (trade schools and community colleges). No new taxes or anything and financial aid is given based on finamcial need.
In my state, the big team universities make a profit on their sports programs.
I’ve always advocated for vocational education. It was never suggested to me in my youth. I was a master-truant with high test scores that contributed to school funding and for that was steered towards typically useless collegiate agenda. I had to pursue various apprenticeships independently and , despite any personal talent or general aptitude, found it incredibly challenging to penetrate the working world as a youth. I started my own businesses and was punished by the state for my independence. I live in an ultra-sports college community that attempts to balance esteemed research facilities in an odd combination. People of all colors are strewn about the doorways of my “community” covered by dirty blankets and trash bags for warmth. Many will die of hypothermia this winter. College can funk off for all I care
I got an idea why don't you just stop supporting a criminal organization and prevent them from stealing money in the first place. Nothing stopping you from donating your own money to the causes you mentioned.
amazing conversation. very interesting to see the change in dominant thought from decade to decade in black culture.
Again well spoken. Share this as much as you can. Finally sence out of caouse. Thankyou. I need your book!
I've never read a title that describes the problem so accurately.
@Philonda Johnson how does it feel to play victim?
McWhorter is truly a role model. I’ve read all his books and I can’t recommend them enough.
Brilliant, refreshing commentary from John McWhorter - I'll definitely be buying his book and recommending it.
What the academy fails to acknowledge is that there is a group of African Americans that has not betrayed the aspirations of their people. We cherish G-d, family, free enterprise, education, and the ideals of American democracy/ republic. That group is the African American Muslims. We are working to become independent and contribute positively to the development of the United States and the world. So everything about African American people and leadership is not doom and gloom.
John McWhorter’s courses on the history of human language run deep. His research and new insights add so much to the existing linguistics literature.
John has a proven ability to do great historical research and create a system of rules and understanding as to how language works since the dawn of human history.
It is rewarding to see John aim his formidable talents toward unraveling the history and pathology of wokeness.
Skipping that class!
I love this guy. I'd love to hang out with him over drinks.
Amen Amen. I listened for a half hour while getting ready for work. Then totally enamored with what John was speaking I looked at the screen and low and behold! He is my people. Great man!!
My new favorite study John McWhorter
Virtue signaling is a special case of "be careful what you measure, because that will be what you get".
You take a complex nasty hard problem and identify an easy to track metric that has a strong correlation with the real problem. Now you can use it as a proxy. Then soon after, people find out you are watching that proxy metric; the correlation vanishes. Because people don't know how to address the hard problem, they will substitute improving the proxy, which does nothing (at best) for the real problem.
If you are developing software and track bugs fixed, you get every minor blemish being reported as 2 dozen different bugs that each take 2 minutes to fix and major problems get ignored because "it would take me a week to fix that one bug". If you are tracking the number of widgets each person runs thought the widget press then when he machine starts mangling parts they won't stop and fix it because that would hurt their numbers. If you are tracking the average length of a help-desk call, then you get your operators hanging up on people the instant they can claim they solved "a problem" without even trying to figure out why they called.
Thank you JM for being genuine and honest, resisting the huge opportunity temptation that some find, for someone of your training and ethnicity to exploit this religious trend for personal gain, but rather you are arguably become the tip of the IDW spear against the future danger the Church of Woke poses and this New Book is perfectly titled to target their dishonest mob movement. Thank you!
16:59 Maybe this is what people call "guilt pride". The alcoholic that cleans up his act and becomes a decenr accountant gets way more praise, than the high school footbal jock, who just couldn't make it to pro leagues, but still is a decent accountant.
If someone acknowledges that they are a product of a racist system, that unknowingly and in subtle but powerful ways benefitted them, and they still manage to be a decent person, than they become the recovered, and saved ex-racist
This is a great interview. Very informative. John McWhorter is so on point.
Amen! My late mother shared John's views on this subject. Thanks for this great content.
John McWhorter is a serious voice of reason in an age of insanity.
The right wing black academic with issues regarding self hate
John McWhorter: ‘Woke Racism’ Has Betrayed Black America
@@thinkdoctorpublications3113 you're entitled to your own opinion, but I think your assessment is way off the mark.
Bring America Back Again! 🇺🇸❤️
I wish more people would listen to John McWorter.
So refreshing. John does not act like he has all of the answers to everything.
The grift is too profitable for some to give up...