The Rise of Skywalker... 3 Years Later
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
- The Rise of Skywalker, the 9th Episode of the Star Wars Saga was released 3 years and now it's time to do a video essay! Star Wars fans as a whole were already split on the Star Wars sequel trilogy after the last jedi, so when the rise of skywalker came out that only made things worse. JJ Abrams had a lot on his plate with the final installment of the Star Wars Saga, and the rise of skywalker definitely didn't deliver for most. What went wrong for some and what went right for others. In this video essay, we discuss Star Wars Episode 9 The Rise of Skywalker... 3 Years Later!
_CHAPTERS___
00:00 - The Rise of Skywalker... 3 Years Later
1:46 - The Dead Speak
9:37 - Rey From Somewhere
18:55 - The Rise of Solo
27:48 - The Friends of Skykwalker
34:41 - A Rushed Finale
43:03 - We Need A Plan!
50:23 - Duel of the Fates
54:41 - Unite The Klaud Squad
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#StarWars #theriseofskywalker #videoessay
Star Wars episode 9 the rise of skywalker is the final chapter of the almost universally loved Star Wars sequel trilogy. After the divisive nature of Star Wars The Last Jedi, there was a lot of pressure on writer and director JJ Abrams to deliver something special. Could he please the fans that felt disenfranchised by the last jedi? Could he please fans that loved the first two sequel films passionately? Would this movie wrap up the sequel trilogy while as the marketing suggested serve as a conclusion to a 9 movie saga? Hello Everybody and welcome to another video, my name is the gold man and today we’re going to talk about Star Wars Episode 9 the rise of skywalker all these years later.
To begin this video, it’s only fair that we talk about the most controversial aspect of this movie, and that is Palpatine’s return. Franky one's enjoyment of this movie almost entirely depends on whether or not Palpatine’s return works for you. Almost everything that happens in this movie stems in some way from Palpatine coming back to life. There are a large contingent of people that love Palpatine’s return, and I’m genuinely happy for you. But the execution of his return arguably derailed the entire trilogy for most people. The Rise of Skywalker as a whole is a prime example of how a cool concept can’t overpower execution. But before I talk about the execution of his return, I want to discuss the most disliked part of Palpatine’s return, how it retroactively affects Return of the Jedi. At the end of that movie, Darth Vader sacrificed his life to murder the emperor and save his son. With the context of the prequels we now know that Anakin fulfilled his chosen one prophecy and brought balance to the force. People love to point out that with the return of Palpatine, it has nullified the fulfillment of the chosen one prophecy. And this is kinda true but also kinda false. One could look at the prophecy and say that Anakin still did fulfill the prophecy, he did bring balance to the force just not forever. The prophecy never said that he would bring balance to the force forever. This is a valid interpretation, but is it really satisfying? - Zábava
The sequels will be forever studied on how important it is to actually plan out your trilogy, not just make it an awkward tug of war from different directors
There are many things to learn from this trilogy, both good and bad!
Those dang mystery boxes
@@gamestation2690 That’s not really the same though. However, I’m not entirely sure the trilogy being better planned would have fixed everything given what happened to the recent Jurassic World and Halloween trilogies.
Honestly I don’t even find this trilogy to be bad in any interesting way, and I’m convinced that 80% of the hate it gets online is varying degrees of bigoted.
@@gamestation2690 The Post Credit scene in Iron Man 1 had Nick Fury introducing The Avengers. Seeds were planted in every movie. The Infinity Stones/seeds were planted. Yes, the journey was not set, but it’s the finale that was set. The Endgame. Marvel/Disney did not follow every seed, take Avengers 1 Thanos stinger. It was hinted at Thanos was going to court his one love, Death. Marvel/Disney did not go this way, but a vague seed was planted for Infinity War/Endgame.
Even just a simple “this character and this character should have this ending, get us there.” I think we were close to seeing it work, but they..went with the wrong director/writer and I don’t think there was as much time to put into it, was there?
I took a screenwriting 101 class in college and on the very first day on of the first things we learned was to always know how your story would end, otherwise you work towards nothing. The sequel trilogy is a case study in what happens when you are working toward nothing
Look at The Adventure Zone... episode 69.1 but only after you have heard all the balance ark. DM is talking about when he knew where the story is going, and it was not in the beginning ;) 7,8,9 was shit btw ;)
Crazy tht u learn tht on the first day, yet billion dollar companies still do the opposite
Isn't that just fiction 101? You write your ending first, then your beginning and then figure out how the two connect? I'm sure some writers can write chronologically and put out great stuff but I've definitely heard the "write the ending first" rule a bunch even before the sequels
Not sure about that, didn't Casablanca have different endings and they only decided it at the last minute? But it's clear that you don't want two different directors who make it their job to piss on each other!
That's not true. Whilst it's a great strategy to know your ending it isn't the only way to write, having a solid grasp on the themes you're exploring, the concept/structure and the arcs of the characters is more than enough to guide the way forward.
Individual movies typically benefit much more from knowing the ending, series/novels are different in that regard as they can constrain creativity and box you in.
Plus first drafts are typically terrible and by you'll understand your piece more by then.
Finn had so much potential, I hate what they did to him. The moment he gets up off the table, spraying water from a wacky bubble suit, clearly for comedic effect, I distinctly remember thinking "oh no..."
As for Palpatine's return, I have less problem with the mechanics, and more with the meta implications.
We all know why they didn't want a black Jedi training under luke😅😂 let's not beat around the bush here
@@trebrown8144 cause China wouldn’t like that and they sell the most tickets
Nobody had any potential in this so called trilogy.
@@kmm3458 in retrospect, I agree: it was doomed from the start because of their creative practices. But at the time, Finn was the character that interested me the most.
@kmm3458 nah. Finn had potential. The idea of a clone trooper being force sensitive, leaving the dark side, and becoming a Jedi is solid.
I'd argue that Finn could've been one of the most popular characters in StarWars if this trilogy was well written.
Plus, John Boyega is well liked and actually cares about StarWars. He gave a similar level of care as the OG cast.
“Do you feel like that trilogy would’ve benefited from planning out a very strict three movie story from the very beginning?”
JJ - “A good question… for another time.”
"'From a certain point of view!?'"
Marcia Lucas (George's Ex wife) - “It seems to me that Kathy Kennedy and J.J. Abrams DON'T HAVE A CLUE about Star Wars. THEY DON'T GET IT. They don’t get the Jedi story. They DON'T GET the magic of Star Wars.’”
'Disney Starwars' is counterfeit sellout corporate trash.
George Lucas - "Betrayed"
I always thought about that like they could have broken that itw Nat a SET format by George. It could’ve been a 5 movie or 6…but no one said it HAD to be 3
How do you know? "A feeling"
From all we know he did, but the next director chose to ignore it.
When it comes to Luke defeating Vader in "Return of the Jedi," I always thought he won because Vader was conflicted, which causes a disconnect between the force user and the force, and that Luke tapped into the dark side when he got really angry.
correct. That's why he won, but actually lost. It was enough to realize that he was so close to his father. He had to realize that he was ultimately flawed, just like his father, but needed to prevail. That's why he chose not to fight the emperor. It was a victory of character growth in the end. You know, as I write this, I really feel that RoTJ was a much better movie...
Correct, Lucas explained that Vader became unstable, he wouldn't allow Luke to turn to the Dark Side, but didn't have it in him to kill Luke.
Ok so I don’t wanna act like I jerk but while that scenario is well known by the fandom, it’s not true, I’ll explain. (And btw I’m not defending the sequels, just clarifying this particular thing)
First of all the fact that Luke was just as strong as Vader is confirmed in multiple cannon books from before and after Disney bought Star Wars (Jedi vs Sith been one of them), also, Vader never became any stronger since Mustafar, he was more dangerous but his force power was the same. Luke did grow that strong in 5 years, this isn’t something weird since Anakin did the same, surpassing Dooku, who had more than 5 decades of experience in around 12 years of training and 3 of experience, that’s just in their blood, Luke’s training was even harder than regular Padawansc and as Yoda and Vader said he finished it.
Now with all that said, Rey’s growth is still extremely inconsistent, she was doing stuff with the force since the first and second movie without any sort of training (Anakin and Luke grew fast but at least they did train) and in ROS, she was trained 1 year by someone who never finish her won training.
Why is everyone in this comment section wrong. Luke won because Darth Vader was conflicted and he had hesitation behind his actions. Luke did not tap in to the Darkside he tapped into his anger which thus boosted his force ability allowing him to overwhelm a conflicted Vader. Come on now you guys are acting ultra retarded and I’m going to call you out on it
@@raes704 exactly! Rey was doing things with literally no training that already made her seem as powerful as Obi-Wan Kenobi! At least Luke did have some actual training, even if it was only a few weeks or months. He also was in communication with at least one force ghost, and may have had access to Jedi scrolls from Yoda. Additionally, at no point in any of the older movies did Like ever display the same power that Rey did in the sequels! Yes, Luke, defeated Darth Vader, but Darth Vader clearly was conflicted and wasn’t fighting at top level, plus he was old. Also, it’s already been accepted that Luke Skywalker is among, if not the most powerful Jedi to ever exist, so it’s not out of the ordinary he could at least defeat Darth Vader, while Darth Vader is in a weakened mental state. Now somehow Rey is the most powerful Jedi? So, every new character we get is going to be the new official most powerful Jedi? No! We accept Luke Skywalker as being able to gain great power with minimal training because he’s Luke Skywalker and the most powerful Jedi ever. That is accepted by the fans. Everyone else needs to go thru their proper training because everyone else is not the most powerful Jedi ever!
22:59. This hit hard for me. I struggled with my relationship with my dad like any son. However my last conversation ended with both of us saying I love you. I'm forever grateful that we made amends before he passed away. I'm sorry for anyone who wasn't able to get that chance.
The Clone Wars season 3 episode 8 opening quote said it best: "A failure in planning is a plan for failure"
Great video! Will definitely be going back to watch your other star wars essays :)
Hard disagree, the power dynamic between Vader and the Emperor is one of the most compelling parts of their relationship. He *does* hate him, but he hates himself more for allowing any of this to happen in the first place. His suit is vulnerable to force lightning as a deliberate design flaw that sabotages the rule of two in Palpatine's favor. Him accepting the mortal wound from attacking his former master in order to save his son is just as climactic as his decision to save his son, since he discards his fear and self loathing if even for a moment. I'm only 5 minutes and 40 seconds in but if you think that a hypothetical recontextualization or re-writing of the prequels could have made the abomination of a sequel trilogy any better I don't know what to tell you.
Actually… none of this was stated in the films. Not that it needs to be but just goes to show you that fans do not understand star wars films. You still have people making sequel film sucks youtube vids after all this time 😂 i dunno i just cant take people serious who claim rey is a mary sue yet hate watch these films to nit pick them apart. I am sorry. I want to look at things from their perspective but its always like a contest. Like yeah star wars movies are flawed. Each of them uniquely flawed. Trying to say the prequels are better than the sequels is big damn red flag that the person is just talking through nostalgia and was never going to like these movies.
@@Heathboy420you're not a just clown, you're the whole damn circus.
@@Heathboy420 The prequels are super flawed but at least they were made by the creator of this franchise who had a cool story in mind, with unique concepts and ideas that were even better than the OG trilogy but in many cases the execution was brutally bad so yeah they're not good enjoyable movies. But the sequels were created by some of the most pretentious directors of this generation working for a propagandist company with no soul, they have just bad unauthentic ideas and all the original scenes they came up with revolved in a direct assassination of the OG characters. So don't blame people if they enjoyed the prequels more than this clusterfuck of shit that happens to be called Star Wars
@@comealsolito804 amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.
@@Heathboy420 Wow, what a productive response!
Honestly, Disney didn't need to make Rey a Palatine to explain why she was powerful. The Dyad was enough of an explanation itself as to why she is powerful unfortunately Disney didn't take the time to explain the Bond.
Agreed!
Yes, and there was some conscious (or unconscious) hints on her becoming stronger because of the bond as well. Pretty much all the time Rey used the force (without training) was when Kylo Ren was close by. Even in the first movie this was a trend. You could easily just explained her powers by saying that she is using Kylo Ren's knowledge. This could have worked for other skills as well such as Rey flying.
It could have been better set up though by we seeing Kylo Ren using some of Rey's skills and knowledges, but it could have been an interesting force power to add to the universe. If you add that the dyad has to be light and dark, something that seem to be hinted at as Rey seemed to turn to the dark side the moment Kylo Ren went light, then you will have an interesting condundrum as one will always have to fall to the dark side to ensure that the other stays in the light. It could have been an interesting alternative to sacrifice outside death.
I really dislike how the Star Wars fanbase claims Rey is ridiculously overpowered, but at the same time, claims she would lose against all other Jedi.
@@matthewk4912 okay who’s saying that exactly? Haven’t seen a single one. Or are you just reconstructing the argument in question?
@@J1O2C3K4E5S
He's making it up.
Rey is overpowered for a character with one week's experience of the Force, or even one week's experience of the Force plus a year's training under Leia. She might well lose in combat against a trained Jedi.
‘Almost universally loved sequel trilogy’ said no one ever
My thought instantly when he said that ridiculous quote
Rei feels like a Mary Sue because they broke existing rules about the force to give her solutions to all her problems. Even with offscreen training, Luke beat Vader because the dark side anger gave him a power up that caught Vader off guard. The Dark Side making you more powerful was set up in every movie, so he doesn't feel like a Gary Stu. On the other hand, Rei knows how to move larger objects than Yoda, how to heal wounds, how to fly, how to deflect laser fire, and how to do mind tricks with 0 training or *practice.*
Even without teachers, Luke could learn from Obi-Wan's force ghost and practice his fencing. Rei got all her power from nowhere because the writers wanted cool pay offs with no setup. That helmet training you brought up in Ep 4 pays off in Ep 6 when Luke deflects Boba Fetts attacks. All Rei's abilities aren't explained by balancing on logs and climbing trees. That's why she stayed a Mary Sue the entire trilogy.
Rey does say she's "never flown off-planet before" to Finn.
But still, the manouvres she puts the falcon through seem a much
The Chosen One prophecy is nullified not because the force was balanced forever, but because Palpatine never stopped pulling the strings, or even died. If he hadn't died, I'd honestly be fine with new dark side force users. It's also the fact that literally nothing accomplished in the first six movies mattered at all. Palpatine only became stronger after Anakin's sacrifice is proof of that.
It's why only TLJ and TROS matter in the saga now, you don't need to watch the others.
@@virgogaming6488 Exactly. It just causes too many problems
@BK Beatty Yes, that is my point
@BK Beatty I know that you were agreeing with me
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT
I will forever be baffled by the spectacular manner in which they screwed this up
Just to be clear I think a lot of people love to see Ian McDermond return as Palpatine and enjoy his performance one last time. But from a story perspective it is a train wreck
Ian McDermond is always a joy to watch on screen, especially when he’s being as deliciously hammy as he is with Papa Palpatine, but not even he can save this godforsaken trilogy, much less this movie
Not at all his return is fine
If Palpatine could be brought back, why not Snoke? Both clearly died, but I think the real reason they brought back Palpatine was Carrie Fisher's passing. They wanted a legacy actor to market their new Star Wars movie
As if Haden Christian isn’t right there, and Mark Hamil. Sucks he never really got the chance to play anakin again on the big screen, enjoyed him alot in ep 3.
Because it looks good in Fortnite
That's honestly something I never even realized
@@Flat_top_king12 Literally. Rian Johnson did not "force" Palpatine to come back. I don't like TLJ either by any means, but this film is not his fault. Palpatine should have stayed dead. And Gold Man's point about it not invalidating Vader's sacrifice doesn't work either. Vader was saving his son, FROM THE EMPEROR. Saving him, so that the Emperor would never hurt Luke again. Except now, everything Anakin did caused Luke to be destroyed in a far worse way, by taking his nephew and turning him into a near-murderer, with Palpatine becoming more powerful than ever. It's all a mess...
I laughed so hard at “somehow palpatine returned.” Honestly, I thought that was straight up the writers saying “we know this is bullshit. The mouse made us do it.”
Palpatine’s return made sense to me, but that’s because I’ve read the old books and seen Clone Wars so I know how bonkers the lore can be. But for a general audience, that needs set-up. But it shouldn’t have happened at all because it’s just cheap nostalgia-bait.
Palpatine's return was done, in Fortnite
@@hellacoorinna9995 how embarrassing for the writers. 🤣😂
I don't know enough of the lore. I've only watched the 9 movies, didn't see any of the TV shows, read book, comics or played games. So, maybe the answer to my question was already provided, but! Why on Tattooine did the bad guys stop making Bobba Fett fast-growing clones and chose to build their Trooper army by kidnapping small children and investing 20 years just to raise and train 1 generation? That always felt like unprofitable way to build your manpower.
My beef with the Sequel Trilogy is one simple question: What was the overarching theme, arc or point to 7,8,9 as it relates to 1-6? We all have beefs with certain plot points, but I can look past that if 7-9 worked as a true extension of 1-6. That’s where Disney missed the boat, they never developed any arc/theme that made 7-9 worthy to sit next to 1-6.
There are hints of an overall arc/theme: Balance of the force and the dyad between Rey and Kylo. Luke taking about the Jedi ending. Even The Last Jedi throwing out that the war machine is from the good guys and bad guys. Or Finn leaving as a Stormtrooper. Anyone of them could have been a constant theme through 7,8,9 but they never developed any of them. That to me is why the movies individually still hold up, but the Sequel Trilogy as part of the Saga doesn’t.
czcams.com/video/hY34NUVyFuc/video.htmlsi=dcammXKpbgbxqsNq
Check out my version of the sequels
They fly now? They fly now” has gotta be worst quote 😂
It’s not that bad
Maybe just most cringeworthy then . I can remember a collective audible groan seeing this in theaters
Nonetheless, great video 😃
Not only was it necessary that Ben was redeemed so Han's sacrifice meant something. But in a way all 3 of our OG mains sacrificed themselves for his redemption. Luke force projecting acted as a distraction sure but also was a last attempt to reason with Kylo "strike me down in anger and I will always be with you". And Leia using her last bit of stregth to contact her son killed her. Our OG mains all died to save Ben so it narratively does not make any sense to then kill him too. It was all for nothing!
As Vader showed, in SW, returning to the light, even at the end, is worthwhile (I’ve never liked that Vader got to live in as a Force-Ghost, while his victims didn’t, but it seems his deathbed conversion was enough for The Force!)
I used to be the only person in the room who said ‘The Force Awakens is just a worse version of A New Hope. The rest of the trilogy is going to be a mess’
I hate being right sometimes…
You're not alone, I knew the trilogy was screwed back in 2015 after seeing TFA.
They bring this sort of thing up in the books and stuff, but I think it would have been neat to see on screen;
Kylo turns good again, and 'heals' his lightsaber. So his crossguard saber with the fiery red blades turns into a crossguard lightsaber with still white blades.
Which books? I’d love to read that!!
@@sarahgs_ I'm not really sure, sorry. I know that healing kyber crystals is something that's in the expanded media but I'm not sure which.
That was in the Ahsoka novel.
Before rise released i was kinda thinking mabye Rey would turn to the dark side while Ben solo would return to the light
That’s incredibly stupid. It’s just a weapon. Red isn’t “evil”. It is a color.
Your argument for Luke being a Gary Stue is inconsistent with your defense of Rey. You point out how the reason Rey wins the first time is because Kyle was emotionally unstable. Yet don’t take into account that the only reason Luke beats Vader is because he is conflicted about killing his son. Plus it even took a moment of giving into his fear and rage to beat Vader.
The Chosen One prophecy is not dumb. The jedi had their messiah and accidentally handed him over to the devil. Thats a great story. Plus, the prophecy itself is pretty shady even within universe. I think it works well with the mystic order of the Jedi, especially the overly dogmatic jedi of the late Republic.
Yeah, but all this says is that Jedi made up the prophecy. The Force didn't send them Metatron or Gabriel to tell Yoda Jesus is coming. Jedi believed there was a prophecy is not the same as prophecy being factually true.
I always thought of it as a comment on the Jedi’s hubris; they just assumed ‘bring balance’ meant destroy the sith, when it actually meant reducing the number of Jedi down to one or two
@@MegaMilenche almost likes it's ambiguous 😮
@@joshman35 Yes, so why exactly everybody who hates sequels can't stop yapping that they undo Anakin fulfilling the prophecy.
@@MegaMilenche in the clone wars there is an arc for Anakin entirely around being the Chosen one and with individuals who aren't even Jedi or Sith. It wasn't made by the Jedi, and it wasn't made by the Sith either.
The idea of balancing the force is ensuring neither light or dark become the oppressive force, the Republic for the Light and the Empire for the dark represent these sides being too strong at some point. Palpatine returning and basically doing the same thing but behind the scenes completely undermines the action of the prophecy, as opposed to what the comics based around the future of Star Wars which show both light and dark being strong but not more than the other. Instead, they made Rey incredibly strong in the span of a few weeks/months and undermined Kylo's arc a lot instead of improving on other characters like Finn or making them Grey Jedi
"Somehow palpatine has returned" is one of the greatest quotes in all cinema history I get chills every time
hardest line in cinema history. when i heard it in the theaters i started crying. such an amazingly well thought out line that leaves a massive impact on your psyche
@@Fridgemasters I'm glad there's someone who shares my passion for such genius writing
That was one of the most legendary lines in the history of film. So layered and complex.
and the way he says it is just...legendary, the feeling he put into it.
I didn't find it nearly as impactful as you guys but I liked it too.
Worst takes on Rey I’ve ever heard 💀
Don’t talk with that pic lol
What amazing editing and points. Very entertaining. Can wait for more from you.
Thank you so much!
You're completely wrong about the Mary Sue bits. She is a lame self insert, and the three supposed goalposts are just symptoms of that. Luke isn't that kind of writer self insert, he is a better written audience stand-in, which is an important difference.
Like the mask being rebuilt, lightsaber, lack of Rose, her training is partially Abrams doing a 180. Luckily to improve the character and not to flip off Rian
I think that they could have brought back Palpatine as a ghost. In the "Legends" books there were Sith Lords who did "haunt" different locations. I believe there was a Sith Lord which haunted the ruins at the Rebel base on Yavin from one of the "Jedi Academy" books. They could have used the wreckage of the 2nd death star for Palpatine's haunt. I think there would have been intact wreckage of the 2nd DeathStar, it was larger and was not completed, so the explosion would have more likely broken the station to large separate pieces rather than vaporize everything.
Maybe Palpatine could have taken control of Rey’s mind as a force ghost and Finn world save her.
The Sith lord you're talking about was Exar Kun; a very powerful and ancient Sith Lord.
All they did was copy Dark Empire, where Ghost Palpatine came back by possessing a clone, but then had to keep body hopping because clone bodies are terrible when it comes to the force because of their artificial nature and the force not liking people artificially making life. Which is why there was a chosen one to defeat Palpatine as he and his master had figured out how to control midichlorians directly to bring back the dead and artificially make strong force users, unlike every other Sith Lord issue throughout history.
Except in Dark Empire Palpatine did finally die when he ran out of clone bodies to hop into and got stuck as a ghost for long enough for the force to finish disassembling him.
Cool, and they could release the Star Wars movie on Halloween… because GHOSTS.
@@TankHunter678 counterpoint, it was stupid when they did in dark empire, too
Duel of the Fates would've been so good :(
Very difficult to accept that we got TROS over that movie
Well to be fair, Darth Vader didn't fight Luke with murderous intent. The Emperor and Darth Vader both wanted him to turn to the Dark Side and both wanted to him to succumb to the Dark Side. That's why Luke managed to "hold his own" during the fight with against Vader and eventually managed to disarm him because he got caught by surprise.
Also Luke may have only trained for one year but he had one of the greatest Jedi of all time to train him.
Meanwhile Rey learns Force Healing out of nowhere from no one, a skill that would've been pretty good to have when Qui Gon died... but I suppose Rey was just stronger than Obi-Wan... yep... not Mary Sue at all
Luke also spent 3 years honing the few lessons he got from Obi-Wan as well.
In all fairness, I’m pretty sure force healing is in the expanded universe.
Rey reminds me of a video game character.
Or maybe she just has a different skillset. Healing is a feminine trait.
@@richardcahill1234 wtf hahaha
I think Rey is called a Mary Sue most of the time because of a combination of factors.
1) She is overly powerful without much justification.
2) As you pointed out, she doesn't face any consequences for her actions. Ever.
3) It feels like the entire galaxy revolves around her. Sure, Luke was the hero of the rebellion, and Anakin was the chosen one, but it always felt like they were just playing their part. Instead, with Rey you get the feeling that everything revolves around her. Not in a protagonist sense of the word, but more in a reality warping type of thing.
I am really sad how the sequels turned out because they had so much potential. Daisy Ridley is a great actress, and I feel like she got the short end of the stick at the end of the day. Still got a better deal than Boyega though.
Perhaps with the new announced movie with Rey we will be able to get some needed character development for Rey. Personally, I am excited to see what happens (although I acknowledge I am in the minority perspective).
@@BBROSNANN Do you dare hope they try to bring Adam Driver back as Ben? Even if he's just a force ghost?
@@MegaMilenche I’d be intrigued. I loved Adam Driver’s performance, and I think try could do it in a way that isn’t gimmicky or cringe.
@@BBROSNANN I love Ben/Kylo as a character first and foremost because he was played by Adam Driver. Cynics hate the character since they can't see past the whole "Vader wannabe". But, knowing how Driver operates as an actor, you can tell that he put a lot of thought and empathy into portraying this person on screen. Doing justice to Ben/Kylo meant something to him, he did his best to do it justice with what the script gave him. Just because of that, I'd wish for him to be back, provided the-powers-that-be want Ben/Kylo back on screen. If they want that going forward, I'd fear that Driver might refuse (it'd be understandable following all the Reylo toxicity that spilled over into his personal life). This leaves two possibilities:
1. They fail to convince him to come back and leave it that - no Ben/Kylo in the new movie
2. They force him to be back using some contractual whatever, like they did with Harrison Ford for Han, and due to pressure, Driver is not able to put his heart and soul into his acting and it comes out as greater disappointment that 1st point.
I may be critical of this movie but I will always praise that shot of the X-Wing and the Tie Fighter parked next to each other
The best thing about this movie I can say is this: considering the limited amount of time JJ got to make it, the fact that the script was being written as the movie was being produced and the precedence of editing on the movie set... it is a miracle this movie is as watchable as it is.
Good point!
But it’s sad that’s the best thing bc they rushed it so much.
@@thegoldman25 have you any videos about Andor?
Honestly,the first time i watched it i was bored.When the movie ended i literally said to myself "finally it's over"
I wish they’d just taken a year or two. Just said, “with Carrie’s passing we want to take the time we need to make something that honors her legacy,” and spent that time figuring out what to do. Last Jedi just didn’t give them any place to go.
3 years later and Star Wars feels like an ex girlfriend, who I dated for many years and loved dearly, but who I’m very much almost completely over at this point. It’s just sad
“I grow tired of your defense of Ray, you may fire when ready.”
John Boyega in episode 7: A stormtrooper who leaves the first order in hopes of finding something worth fighting for.
John Boyega in episode 8: A bumbling clown who gets sent off on a pointless errand for 3/4s or the movie.
John Boyega in episode 9: “so one of the actors accidentally left the script under his bed at his hotel although it was printed on paper that can’t be copied…annnnnd we were able to get it back…..”
Disney has some real morons working for them.
If Luke was as much a Gary Stu as Rey is a Mary Sue, the orignal trilogy would have gone like this:
Ep. 4: After Vader kills Obiwan, Luke defeats Vader in a duel.
Ep. 5: Luke learns that Vader is his father. He then kills the Emporer, and saves his friends from Vader ane Boba Fett.
Ep. 6: Some new threat appears. Vader sacrifices himself to save Luke, and Luke defeats the new threat.
Also consider these factors:
Ep. 4: Luke is saved by Han to finish the bombing run.
Ep. 5: Luke struggles to train under Yoda. He let’s emotion get the best of him, so he faces Vader and loses.
Ep. 6: Luke beats Vader, but only after Vader causes him to hate. Vader is trying to lose, and turn Luke to the dark side. Luke realises this, and tosses his sword.
I think the payoff of Palpatine’s return and to close all three trilogies could have been if Ghost Luke and Ghost Anakin had to join forces to pull Palpatine into the afterlife. Literally having the two protagonists of the first trilogies end this galaxy level threat.
I always wanted to hear Ghost Luke ask Ghost Anakin about Padme like he asked Leia in ROTJ; just before one or both of them sacrificed themselves for Rey.
Even just a few small changes could have made a big difference, imo.
This sounds a lot like the Lucas Cut, a rumored original version of The Rise of Skywalker before Kathleen Kennedy forced changes. She didn't want all the heroes fighting Palpatine together because it would have taken some of the spotlight away from Rey.
@@bchristian85 and nobody likes Rey, such a shame that’s the way they chose to go.
@@sobergnostic2222 It's impossible to make sense of the story of the sequels. They break the rest of canon in so many ways.
That would have been an amazing moment, and would’ve gone a long way to validate his return.
I didn't hate the sequel trilogy, but its baffling to me that when an orginal trilogy fan got the possibility to conclude that story that they didn't write the outline for all 3 straight away.. Like I have been ok with Palpatine returning if there was at least a couple of hints in the previous two movies
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I really respect this review and your takes on the sequels in general. I intensely dislike them and think many criticisms lobbed at them are fair, but there are certain things people use to attack them that are just objectively unfair or misguided. I appreciate your balanced and nuanced perspectives. I, like many people, genuinely hoped these movies would be good, and so most of the anger stems from disappointment, or at least it does for me.
Thanks so much 🙏🙏 I have been looking forward for this video for this long
Enjoy!
Can’t believe someone actually rewatches this movie
new subscriber - really enjoy these retrospectives - can't wait to go back and see them all. Fine work!
Awesome, thank you!
i lived for decades believing bobba fett and the emperor died in return of the jedi and i will continue to believe that as disney star wars is non cannon to me
Just found your other reviews/retrospectives two days ago and thought “Man, I can’t wait to hear what he has to say about ROS”. So glad I didn’t have to wait long!
Nice! Thanks for checking out my other videos too!
Rey had all her great victories before she did any training, and it could be argued that she only started to suffer defeats after training. Conclusion, Rey was so powerful that the training she received from Leia actually made her worse.
Going through two movies of constant victory (personal victory) and then falling over her feet means JJ wrote her badly. It doesn't make her less of a Sue.
A definition of a Sue (not the only definition) is one who possesses the power of a paragon with the backstory of a journeyman character. The reverse of many D&D characters. Rey engages in feats that we'd expect from paragons like Qui-Gon and Obi Wan, with no backstory to explain it.
They even had the sequence where Poe and Finn are talking about Rey, about how awesome she is, and wondering where she is, which is one of the traits people attribute to Sues, that other characters only exist to talk about how wonderful they are when they're not onscreen.
And yes, Luke managed to beat down Vader, after Vader provoked him to lose it by threatening Leia, and while Vader and the Emperor still planned to convert him to the Dark Side. As in Empire Vader was more interested in converting him than killing him. Luke was strong in the Force, had a small amount of training by Ben, a larger amount of training by Yoda, and a lot of time to practice what he'd been taught, to the point where Luke in Return of the Jedi had mastered just about everything we'd seen Jedi do in A New Hope. Vader meanwhile was old, heavily cybernetic, and didn't expect Luke to go apeshit on him.
That is still more training, and more training from actual Jedis, than Rey got.
Ben imagines his father forgiving him for the mass slaughter of thousands or millions... gotcha.
If he hadn't died, Ben would have been put on trial by the Republic and probably executed. Han wasn't the only person he murdered. Trying to excuse that because he had a rough childhood, well tough.
i wouldn't classify them as great victories
@@thegoldman25 Beating a weakened Sith lord on your first try with no training is a great victory. And beating trained praetorian guards in the span of that same week.
What victories did she go through? List them please.
@@vittoriacolona She beat Jake Skywalker on the head with a stick and she made him cower like Jar Jar after she pulled out his fathers light saber.
For me at least, over time I’ve come to realize that The Rise of Skywalker was pretty awesome in one way: it made me appreciate The Last Jedi more, and made me wonder what a Rian Johnson trilogy would have been like.
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Love your content man, reminds me to replay and rewatch so many titles
Thanks!
The lack of an overarching plan for the sequels is often used to show why these movies can’t be liked. Even though I already know all of these flaws, I still love these movies and TROS is my favorite of the three.
It's implied in one of the books that Ben was being monitored/manipulated by a sith even in the womb. Leia is meditating while she's pregnant and senses something off surrounding fetusBen and fetusBen's unease with it.
That almost reminds of how The Demon Child was corrupted by Femto's rape of Casca.
Thanks for making this video. You made me appreciate more this film.
Another point about the Father/Son moment:
1. Luke saying "no one is ever really gone" in reference to Han being dead.
2. When Kylo instigates that last fight with Rey he reveals to Rey that he is ashamed to face his mother. He believes that he is such a monster that even his own mother rejects him. However, it is his mother who reaches out to him in the climax of the fight.
3. While Rey heals the lethal wound that she gave Kylo, her act of compassion is a direct result of Leia's intervention in the fight.
4. Han Solo's appearance in that scene is a stand in for Leia. The scene can also be seen as Leia using Kylo's memories to of his last moments with his father to speak to him.
*Abrams said in the lead up to TFA that he envisioned an arc for Kylo that would be the revers of what SW audiences had scene before. There were a few theories as to what this would mean. Clearly in hind sight he meant a mother redeeming her son. The OT had a son bring his father back to the light side and the PT had a son fall because of the loss of his mother. Leia bringing Kylo back from the dark side is a reversal of both of Vader's arcs.
hahaha
I've never met anyone who had a problem with Palpatine's return undoing "the prophecy".
It's because it undid all of the OT character's struggles and achievements
Exactly.
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nah, its the prophecy
Fire video I like how you weren’t bias and didn’t overly nitpick everything but instead showed real issues with with the movie and how they could have fixed it.
Anakin killed the Emperor to save Luke and not to get revenge, yeah. But his killing of the Emperor is still symbolic of him breaking free of the grasp of the dark side, the very schism in his relationship with his son Luke, and overthrowing his corruptor and abuser, and this was true before the prequels too. It's still far more narratively satisfying and thematically compelling to watch a father and son overcome their manipulator through their love for one other, than Rey, who has no relationship with Palpatine, blasting him with lightning because he's the bad guy and she's the good guy.
What if the Ahsoka show comes in with The World Between Worlds and sets up the possibility of Palpatine’s return just being an alternate timeline of events if something had played out differently?
Sure, that has the potential to introduce its own set of problems, but I do feel like it would be much more satisfying overall.
i am so excted to finish this video it gonna be amazing
Enjoy!
This critique feels like Gold Man saw Rise of Skywalker and only read about the other movies. Some very random takes here.
You deserve a bigger audience. I’ve only really watched your Star Wars videos but you are very fair in your critique most people just cry about how awful the sequels were. Thank you. I appreciate you, but yes, the sequels were terrible.
I appreciate the kind words! especially since it appears we disagree strongly on the sequels. thank you!
It isn’t crying. Its frustration that was boiling within serious star wars fans and TROS was the film that finally made us snap. It deserves to be shit on
@@jasonnewbery it is crying just get over it it happened , 99% of the critics couldn’t make a good Star Wars movie even if they moms life depended on it so yes crying
@@NedFlanders1040 What a ridiculous comparison. Would you not complain if the dentist made a mess of your mouth? The sequels were embarrassing.
Lol. I am not crying. The Sequel Trilogy sucks. I will probably watch all of the Star Wars movies minus the sequels and lose no sleep over it.
The "mary sue" segment had some interesting things to chew on. But I wouldn't say I'm convinced just because one of the movies did an okay-ish job giving her flaws. What you describe as "shifting the goal posts" is a wide variety of differing opinions on Rey, not all of which are reasonable or well-informed.
I consider her a mary-sue because of her long and consistent track record of impressive feats and skills that don't feel earned by the plot or justified by her upbringing. Not *everything* she does is unjustified. I personally don't have any issue with her having an innate skill for fighting, since most of her life was spent alone on a dangerous planet. But so many of her skills are just pulled out of nowhere and it strains believability. And while Anakin and Luke aren't *completely* innocent of this either, a tiny handful of poor decisions made about other characters don't cancel out the veritable boatloat that were dumped on Rey.
Anakin blowing up a droid control ship? A bit dumb. Luke pulling out a few neat powers that he learned offscreen? Not the best. Rey having an answer to pretty much EVERY exterior problem she faces? Yeah, no.
“Almost universally loved Sequel Trilogy”… incredible… every single word you just said was wrong
Probably the most underrated film channel. The quality of your script and editing has done nothing but improve. I’m only a few minutes in right now, but I can already see it. Congratulations man, I hope you continue to find success!
I really appreciate this, thank you!
I'll second that. Great videos, you really are top notch.
3 years later and the movie did not get better. It is not like wine.
Knowing how your story is going to go is practically rule #1. How the hell did Disney waste well over 1 billion dollars trying to learn the hard way what I learned in third grade creative writing??
She is a Mary sue. Every single example you gave strengthens that.
Elaborate
@@thegoldman25 she beat Kylo the very first time she picked up a light saber, a guy who has trained since a kid. Brining down a ship from miles away not even yoda could do that. She beats Palpatine without too much of a struggle. She resists the dark side pretty easily. Is there anything she can't do?
Great video there mate. I enjoyed watching it so much that I subscribed to your channel. I personally think that the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy needed to have been properly mapped out from the start. A big part of why I think people dislike this trilogy is because the two directors involved had two completely different visions on what makes a good Star Wars story. J J Abrams made The Force Awakens feel so familiar as a Star Wars story that many see it as a direct copy of A New Hope.
Rian Johnson on the other hand, tried to deconstruct Star Wars mythology like the popular 2004 video game Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords did, but it ultimately didn't resonate with the fans and left them feeling empty after viewing it. Abrams returned for The Rise of Skywalker but by then the story being told over the course of the trilogy had become so convoluted that he was not able to successfully close it out and the resurrection of Emperor Palpatine completely out of nowhere just highlighted how little care they had actually taken with the mythology.
In the Original Trilogy, I believe George Lucas created a self-contained story in A New Hope as he didn't expect the film to become so popular. That popularity led to him creating the remainder of the trilogy, but at least the Emperor had been mentioned during the first film so he couldn't come out of nowhere. There were two major plot twists in the next two films, that Vader was actually Luke Skywalker's father and that Vader was not actually the primary antagonist of the original films, it was Emperor Palpatine.
The prequel trilogy was a well mapped out story and while I think they went way overboard with CGI and a lot of the dialogue was cringeworthy, the overall story was actually pretty good. It was marketed as the story telling the fall of Anakin Skywalker to become Darth Vader but it was also about the rise of Sheev Palpatine (a.k.a. Darth Sidious) to power, as both the seemingly humble Senator from Naboo who went on to become Supreme Chancellor, but also as the sinister Dark Lord of the Sith who manipulated the entire Republic to dismantle it and create the Galactic Empire, with him as Emperor.
I do not know what the future holds for Star Wars. It may lie in TV Series or Video Game content rather than movies. Both TV Series and Video Games have more scope and freedom to map out storylines than films do and I think that the aftermath of the Sequel Trilogy may make people wary of the storytelling efforts of those involved.
So glad I'm already subscribed to you. This video just proved you're one of the most thoughtful Star Wars fans around. Thanks for the amazing video!
I'm glad you mentioned the pacing of this movie. The pace of Rise of Skywalker literally triggered my anxiety. When it sunk in that this movie was going to be 2 and half hours long and like.... THAT... the whole time? I gritted my teeth and never stopped.... it's the only Star Wars movie I never want to watch again. Ever.
This is a very interesting and in depth analysis! Great job!
thanks!
Man yours is probably the best take on the sequel trilogy that I have ever seen on the internet you don't completely hate on the trilogy I mean you do on some parts but in others you make some pretty honest criticisms and You don't seem to hate everything about this trilogy you will also highlight so much of the good of it to it also had me rethink many opinions I had about this trilogy as well
I appreciate that, frankly I love this trilogy way more than most people. But I'm never gonna ignore criticisms I have of this movie or others
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Wow great video and perspective.
Subscribed 👍
"you were the strongest Jedi ever" just doesn't hit as hard as "you were the chosen one"
okay the dialogue could have been changed a bit
On bring balance to the Force: having 0 dark side users isn't balance, it's a total scale tip into the light. For Anakin or Luke to bring balance would be for either the light and dark side users to be equivalent to each other, or to turn all Force users into practitioners of a combination of light and dark. The seemingly overwhelming power of the Jedi during the Republic era lead to stagnation so absolute, they didn't even sense the few Sith pulling the strings to destroy them.
THIS! I've been trying to explain that anakin falling to the dark side and killing so many light side users WAS a part of bringing the balance of the overly light side usage back to its normal even state
@@christianrowe992that’s one valid interpretation. The truth is: no one KNOWS what ‘bring balance to the Force’ actually means. I tend to agree that light-siders should use some Darkside powers. The Jedi we’re pathological in their fear of ‘falling to the Dark Side,’ when we all have darkness within us. Luke used to to defeat Vader, just as Cere in Jedi: Fallen Order uses it several times. Balance’ can be within an individual, as well as the entire galaxy.
The problem is you forget that to be a light side user is to only do what the force wants you to do. Light isn’t a side. It’s doing the forces will. The dark side is doing what YOU want. It sees the force as a tool and not a guide. That’s what people who hate the light side view it as.
Luke didn’t defeat Vader because of skill or power. It was an emotional duel between father and son and Vader, trying hard not to kill Luke, was taken aback by his son’s anger
The way legends did Palpatine's return was so much better, with Luke and Leia uniting to bring him down, honouring and completing their father's sacrifice.
I agree that’s cooler
I think the Mary Sue label mainly comes from her rarely losing fights and having things conveniently work in her favor.
Also them writing in the Reylo crap makes it feel like they only made her lose to Kylo because the internet called them out for making her a Mary Sue.
I heard recently that Rian Johnson considered Episode VIII to be already the trilogy's and saga's closure. That would explain why The Rise of Skywalker feels not like an ending but like a new beginning. The only person who actually got closure was Kylo, whose redemption had already been amply foreshadowed.
On seeing again the final scene of Episode IX where Rey, who now calls herself Skywalker, is on Tatooine watching the twin suns setting while a small droid is rolling beside her, I instinctively thought "This means that the saga is not ending, it's starting anew".
What bothers me most is that the concept of balance was not pursued. In The Last Jedi we saw the Jedi Temple mosaic, we saw Rey and Kylo touching hands, then fighting side by side, then the legacy saber being suspended between them etc. I had concluded that since the first trilogy had seen the Dark Side win and the classic movies the Light Side, the sequels ought to have told how Balance is finally achieved. But that topic wasn't even addressed any more.
I guess that the studios know that with Star Wars they have bought the hen that lays golden eggs and they never intended to finish the story here, the way George Lucas had planned. Instead, they paved a way for lots of more stories to come leaving unanswered questions everywhere. I can understand that, but still... it's frustrating for us fans. 🙄
you know, you actually made me like the movie more and appreciate individual character arcs. I still think the entire trilogy was poorly made, but the characters are actually good
That’s all I can ask for! For you to appreciate this movie just a little bit more. Thanks for watching!
No way. It's all trash
@@thegoldman25why would you want others to appreciate something that deserves absolutely no praise or appreciation?
Great great video!!
Hard to believe this even needed to be said.....that planning is important.
Just saying the setup for Palpatine’s return was in Revenge of the Sith in the scene where he explains to Anakin the Tragedy of Darth Plagues. That gets referenced in TROS when Palpatine says “The Dark Side of the force is a pathway to many abilities, some consider to unnatural.” J.J. Abrams thought that was the greatest setup of all time in Star Wars that wasn’t paid off. So that’s why Palpatine Returned in TROS.
Nah. He returend cause Kylo would not attract the big buck.
Yeah he told Anakin there was a way to cheat death. Yet the so called fans call his return a cop out.
@@vittoriacolona Its a cop out because it isn't explained properly in the film how hes back. Hes just back.
Thanks for saying that, I feel less alone! I really don't understand why many keep criticizing Poe's line ("Somehow Palpatine is back", by the way...I mean...to expect that a pilot, no matter how good, with no connection to the Force, could know that, that's a bit naive! it'd have been much weirder if he had actually given an explanation!) and they don't focus on that self-quotation by Palpatine who basically gives a full explanation on his return. Yet Episode III is among the most popular lately.
@@Omnhio aww you’re welcome bud. Since I watch the behind the scenes I get a much better understanding of what the movie is supposed to be.
Watched your other videos on the newest sequels I enjoyed them too
Thank you!
There's a difference between "potential" and "capability". Luke and Anakin was only shown their "potential", the moment they overstep they pay for their lack of "capability" quickly and harshly.
Rey on the other hand, is just overpowered from the begining. All obstacles are just minor setbacks that never have any long term effects, the training is just a minor improvement she can do without. She will accomplish her goal anyway regardless of any of these factors. She has the absolute "capability" from the begining, and she can escape the rule of cause and effect. Thus Rey is without a doubt a Mary Sue in my opinion.
Of course there can always be reasons why all the villains can be beaten by her, "due to their own circumstances", but art is all about what we feel, not about finding justifications, isn't it?
These videos are so very good. Thank you.
Thank you even more!
Apart from the Rey points you gave, I actually agree with your take and I can finally look at this movie with some positivity
Yeah I too have a very conflicted relationship with this movie. On one hand I loved it the first time I saw it but the more I think about it the less sense it makes, and what infuriates me is that contrary to what a lot of reviewers seem to say it wasn't irredeemable.
Minor changes so easy to make would have been largely enough. Keep Chewbacca dead, keep C-3PO's memory erased, let Ben live and finish the movie with both him and Rey travelling the galaxy trying to fix what the first order has done under the approbation of Luke and Leia's ghost.
It was that easy ! A week of reshoots would have been enough. Sure it wouldn't be perfect, far from it, but it would've made a satisfying ending.
Despite all that I can't hate the movie either because it did a lot of things I liked.
I share a very similar sentiment to you
The prophecy said that Anakin would be the one to destroy the sith and restore the balance of the Force (the natural state of the force is the light side), but he never said that he was meant to destroy the dark side, only the users that exist on that side. particular moment. Even in Legends, after the destruction of the 2 death star, a new darkness appeared, but not with the teachings of the old sith (well, maybe Lumiya, but I think Vader thought of her only as his agent)
Without the prophecy, Anakin would never have been a Jedi since even if Qui Gon knew that Anakin was strong in the Force and presented him to the Jedi Order, because he was already attached to his mother, the council would reject him like they did in the movie. .
The council almost rejected him anyway, they only accepted him cuz of Obi Wans promise
@@thegoldman25 yes exactly. The only thing that made the Jedi to accept Anakin was the last will of Qui Gon "He is the chosen one. He will bring balance. Train him."
3:58 Without the prophecy and IF Qui Gon was willing to free Anakin (because he only does it cause he knew the prophecy and thought that the Force was telling him that the boy was the chosen one), the Jedi may have been moved by his potencial in the Force, but never trained him. Worse: because Anakin was free. And Qui Gon is saying that he found a sith in Tatooine. A sith. After all this year. And you think about taking him back, the being with most miriclorians to that planet knowing that the boy FEELS love and is AFRAID? No. He has to stay.
So Anakin, a free slave, would become a prisoner in the temple: he may never leave, he must never train, he would be an outcast.
@@tomasguzman6631 That's brilliant. Well done.
The Prophecy was an invention by Lucas to get around the other rules he invented for the Jedi. Yoda saying that 20 year old Luke was "too old" didn't mean that Jedi had to be taken from their mother's breast and abducted to the Jedi Temple.
The Jedi Temple being a school for Jedi, like Hogwarts, where children came and went of their own free will would have worked just as well.
Remember that by abducting children Lucus basically has the Jedi creating an army of child soldiers.
@@freman007 *child “peace keepers” ;)
Rey, is not perfect. You pointed out her flaws. And I agree with your points.
Why some people still stink she is a Mary-Sue, is beyond me.
About Rey: you essentially describe her as a shy, insecure emo-kid, who is looking for belonging and love. That might have been a great story, but I don't think it works, because everything that Rey actually does is being this awesome girl-boss, who is better, stronger, and more beautiful than everyone else. All the other characters across three movies shower her with praise and admiration. The audience is constantly told how awesome Rey is. Rey never fails at anything. Other characters fail to please Rey or fail to fulfill Rey's expectations.
That's why any character arc about her being insecure and depressive does not resonate.
Bullspit. Did we watch the same films? Han wanted nothing to do with her in TFA. Luke tried to run her off. She was kicked around and mistreated FOR YEARS by Unkar Plutt. Snoke threw her around like a rag doll, Palpatine told her she was nothing compared to him? Kylo told her she was nothing, even Finn chastised her in TROS for wanting to destroy Palpatine How is that everyone showering her with praise? And she failed to get Kylo to turn and join the rebels as well as Luke. She has trust issues, abandonment issues and looks for approval in others. She's reckless and runs into trouble without thinking and has to depend on others to save her. And throughout the 3 films she keeps on trying to foist the responsibility of being a Jedi off onto others. How exactly is that being a girl boss? A girl boss doesn't care what others think of them and they don't look for the approval of others to tell them who they are and what they should do.. That is not Rey.
@@vittoriacolona Han wanted to offer her a job as a copilot. Luke told her that she had the most awesome power he had only seen once before and that he was scared of her power. Almost all Finn did was run after her and shout "REY".
Even if you consider Rey to be an insecure person with attachment issues who needs attention and affirmation at any cost, where exactly is the character development when, at the end of the trilogy, Rey kisses the bad guy who tried to murder her and takes the surname of the grumpy old man who also treated her badly? Even if you buy into this need-for-belonging topic, where is the development when Rey at the end just does the same pathological thing: just attach herself to someone else? If it's really all about attachment issues, then this girl needs some therapy after ROS, because she really needs to turn her life around.
If you like Rey, that's fine for me. It just doesn't work for me. I think Rey is an empty character. I liked her in the first 10 minutes of TFA, but I really lost interest after that.
@@luna-hw9li Han wanted to offer her a job as a copilot.
---After he saw her skills as a mechanic
Luke told her that she had the most awesome power he had only seen once before and that he was scared of her power.
--He told her that he had only seen that level of power before in Ben Solo. And tells her that she went straight for the dark and did not even try to stop it. That’s hardly fawning over her.
Almost all Finn did was run after her and shout "REY".
--No he didn’t. He went to help her on ONE SCENE OF A 2.5 HOUR FILM.
Even if you consider Rey to be an insecure person with attachment issues who needs attention and affirmation at any cost, where exactly is the character development when, at the end of the trilogy, Rey kisses the bad guy who tried to murder her and takes the surname of the grumpy old man who also treated her badly?
---LOL. Luke encouraged her to face her demons and told her that her character is more important than her bloodline. And Ren ran to help her and save her life. Did you honestly not see that?
“Even if you buy into this need-for-belonging topic, where is the development when Rey at the end just does the same pathological thing: just attach herself to someone else? If it's really all about attachment issues, then this girl needs some therapy after ROS, because she really needs to turn her life around.
--Where it the character development? Too long to go into. But this essay explains it.
www.reddit.com/r/TrueFilm/comments/n1glor/rey_skywalker_an_arc_of_selfworth/
-- If you like Rey, that's fine for me. It just doesn't work for me. I think Rey is an empty character. I liked her in the first 10 minutes of TFA, but I really lost interest after that
-- And I find your post empty, illogical and hypocritical.
Has everyone forgotten how yoda even admitted a flaw in the jedis prediction of the future? That it's always changing and shifting? Meaning they can only predict for the short term.
It seems people don't understand that the chosen one prophecy wasn't written by the Jedi as far as we can tell the original tale comes from the Celestials who believed the father would be succeeded by one who would bring balance to the force and since Anakin killed almost all light side users and he and only a couple other dark side users existed the balance was fulfilled
Another great video. The prophecy is
A Jedi will come
To destroy the Sith
And bring balance to the Force
according to Wookiepedia, which is how I took it to mean when I heard them talking about balance. I always had it in my head that the sith would be gone (at least for a long while) and other dark force users would rise up, similar to the Nightsisters. I didn't envision the Jedi Order as it once was either, Luke could have changed how they approached the dark users. What could have been is what kills these sequels for me.
Sith is a religion any dark side user could raise to power thats what I wanted to see in the sequel but bringing palps back was a real mistake on JJ's part when ani is supposed to destroy them, and seeing that he failed because palps still alive.
Luke a Gary sue? When did he know how to beat multiple attackers? When did he learn to swim or pilot a boat while growing up on a desert planet? When did Luke instantly known how to fly any ship and how to fox a specific ship better than the guy that's owned it for 50 years? When did Luke just flat out guess how to use force powers? When did Luke pull new powers out of the air?
I think The Rise of Skywalker could have been successful with nearly the same story if Rey had died and Kylo/Ben had lived to have the Tatooine moment. As the finale of the 9-movie arc, Ben reconciling with Luke and Anakin on Tatooine would have provided closure to the Skywalker arc. Especially considering his earlier reconciliation with Han on the Death Star, bringing him back to his Solo identity. It also would have recontextualized Ben as the main character of the trilogy, giving the sequels a rewatchability factor.
that could've been interesting, but i would still want rey to live
@@thegoldman25 Oh Gold Man I love Rey😍. In all ways😄.
Rey and Ben already are the the protagonists of the ST
I agree with your points on Ben, but I do think his redemption is VERY RUSHED
Kylo/Ben as a character makes little sense after TFA, he kind of does things that the plot needs him to do, rather than logical human things, same with Rey. After the first movie they feel like narrative constructs more than people imo.
Plus literally no other character has any development that means much. Finn and Poe become tagalongs in TRoS coz no one knew what else to do with them.
This channel seems to have the best thought out critiques I have seen, rather than gushing praise or scathing attacks and character assassinations etc. There's a lot of room for proper well thought out discussion of Star Wars, even with people who fundamentally disagreee on many points. It doesn't HAVE to devolve into "You aren't a REAL Star Wars fan if you don't hate and like the exact same things I hate and like about Star Wars" or "You must be a drooling moron if you like X".
I'll need to finish watching this video later, but you nailed it right on the head about the chosen story line something that has always botherd me, and really nothing was ruined in Return of the Jedi because Rise of Skywalker, though I do have issue with that film, it does nothing to hurt the original films, Anakin being the chosen one yes, though if George Lucas did his sequel trilogy Liea would of been the chosen one not Anakin, so fans would of been upset regardless, you always make great points Gold Man, thank you for all the great content and May The Force Be With You Always!
Force ghost catching stuff like they didnt die, force teleportations like Rey handing the light saber to Ben across the galaxy, force healing so much more bullshit.
While I disagree with your thesis that Palpatine's return wasn't setup, I will agree that it wasn't sufficiently setup. There are several places that foreshadow and hint towards Palpatine's return, but they take too much fine sifting to sort them out. Another FANTASTIC video Gold Man!!
Good points Santa, thanks for watching and keep up the good work!
Whether it wasn’t set up or it wasn’t sufficiently setup, it sounds like you do agree with the thesis, just not the details. It should’ve been hinted at in the prior films for such a risky change. I’d actually like to hear you expand on where it was hinted at in the prior to films because I didn’t see it and I can’t think of any upon reflection.
How could it be setup when they literally came up with it at the last minute?
@@davidwindell
The setup actually starts in the Aftermath books, where there's quite a bit of foreshadowing of Palpatine's contingency plan and living beyond the Original Trilogy.
Then in TFA, Snoke gives details from the encounter between Palpatine, Vader/Anakin, and Luke that are only known by those who were present in the encounter. This is an example of something that was sprinkled in, but so minute that it takes a very close inspection to pull it out.
In TLJ, the mirror scene gave cloning vibes. At the time, my theory (and still my wish) was that Rey herself was one of many clones, and the only clone that was force sensitive. However, that didn't turn out to be the case, but her father (Palpatine's clone "son") was one of many clones of Palpatine that were made. Another vague and minute hint that wasn't at all sufficient for the ultimate reveal (imo).
Some have also pointed out other things in both movies that give a nod to Palpatine's foreshadowing (like Rey's lightsaber technique being very similar to Palpatine's), but they're just as small, and take a lot of work to flesh out.
Overall, I agree with the bulk of The Gold Man's video. I have different opinions on some of it, and I have some different complaints than detailed here, but overall I still enjoy the movie well enough to rewatch it and have fun.
@@sweetpeach3649 That's not exactly true. While I've also heard this complaint, it isn't entirely accurate.
First of all, the Aftermath Trilogy gives some very strong foreshadowing of Palpatine existing after the Original Trilogy. Chuck Wendig sprinkled the Palpatine stuff in there as a prelude to the Sequel Trilogy.
Secondly, in interviews, Kennedy has said that Palpatine was always part of the plan for the Sequel Trilogy, and this is proven out by several elements that we see throughout the trilogy, and in some of the additional materials written in leadup to the Sequels.
We can all criticize the execution of the plan, and the sufficiency of the plan, but there is plenty of evidence that a plan did indeed exist. A more thoroughly detailed and planned out Sequel trilogy would definitely have benefitted the story as a whole. As we got it, the story seemed more disjointed because the plan just wasn't fully fleshed out.
I honestly don’t care about the Chosen One thing.
I hate Palpatine returning because it ruins whatever was left of Luke and Anakin’s victory in ROTJ.
nah man, the best conclusion for her character would've been Rey Solo.
She loved a solo, her "dad" was a solo and she trained with a solo.
Not only that, but Solo is not a real name, and its the one that changes the galaxy.
Bringing balance to the force doesn’t simply mean killing Darkside users. When Anakin was killing hunting and killing the Jedi, that was also him bringing balance to the force.
Viewed from this perspective I think you’ll find the chosen one plot line a lot more interesting.
Except when he killed Darth Sidious there wasn’t balance because Luke and Leia exist