Just finished novel 2 days ago, Lily is still fresh in my mind. You summed her up well to me; she did not have it in her to weaponize the letters. Yes she felt herself to be above many things but not all of them were vanity and survival oriented. Maybe because she did see herself so far above others, she also took the high road in her behavior. Like you said, "her DNA." Ultimately she demostrated that she, "was a good person." No dirty black mail for her. She needed to exited her scene earlier if she wanted to survive or marry Selden. She was killed by her lack of practicality. Wharton certainly made the reader care for Lily.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I always thought the reason Lily didn't use Bertha's letters to Seldon to redeem herself was because she loved Seldon--and Gertie, his cousin. She couldn't bring herself to buy success at the expense of breaching the trust of the only people in her life who loved her unconditionally. Lily had many flaws but she also had her own set of moral standards; there were lines she couldn't cross and still maintain a clear conscience. Wharton was absolutely brilliant at creating these moral dilemmas and she created them more often than not, I think.
I've never been able to get thru House of Mirth because it's so painful to read, like watching someone total a car in slow motion. I really appreciate your review because it gives this poor character her due and articulates feelings I couldn't examine.
Very impressive analysis! What struck me about this book is that not only is Lily a complex character, but so is Selden and Gerty Farish. What am incredible novel .
Ever since I read this article in The Awl, I've been thinking more about Seldon than I am about Lily. I know CZcams doesn't like links in comments sometimes, so you can google it if you like, it's called "Men Like Him" and I wouldn't say I agree with it 100% but I am questioning my thoughts about this book, and can't wait to reread it with it in mind. My thoughts on Lily are that she is a tragic figure in that *nothing* would have made her satisfied. She would have been just as unhappy married to Seldon as she would have been married to Percy or anyone else. She would have (was) unhappy being single. Unhappy striving, unhappy not striving. One of the saddest books I've ever read.
I always wished she would have taken Rosedale up on his proposal. There were no illusions there, it would have been a business deal of sorts, but I think she would have come to truly appreciate him in time and to find him fascinating. Okay, come at me! LOL!
THAT'S the kinda booktube content we need! Fantastic video. You've encouraged me to bump this up my classics tbr. What a complex protagonist! An excellent delve into social expectations. Cheers ✌
Oh gosh, please do a part 2! You are so eloquent when you discuss books - and this is one that has been stuck on my mind since I finished it a couple of days ago. I agree with everything you said, she is such a well-written character! I can see why she does the things she does and it’s magical that Wharton was able to write a character so frustrating but one that readers can completely understand. When I started the book, I had no idea how tragic it would be. I’m tempted to even start making my own videos because I just want to discuss this book so much! I’ll eventually at least make an Instagram post haha but my thoughts are all scrambled!
This comment made me so happy, you have no idea lol. I hope you will make a video about it - I would absolutely love to watch it! I may do a part two of this at some point. Maybe after a reread? There is another topic about it I know I could discuss at length but for now I'll probably move onto diving into the psychology of other literary heroines since apparently I'm obsessed with doing that, haha!
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I feel a lot of opportunities present now ate so taken for granted it's difficult for some people to read old books and understand the fear even. Women were considered property under the law until 1917. Lily was equivalent to a wardrobe in her time. Sad, but undeniable.
For me it was like reading/watching a train wreck in slow motion. Lily has to be one of the most tragic characters in American literature. Even more than Warton's Newland Archer in The Age of Innocence. Loved listening to this video. You untangled all of my spaghetti noodles of thought about the book perfectly!
This is one of my favorite novels, one I've read several times, and you've given me some new things to think about. The letter burning scene stunned me the first time I read it, and I think you're absolutely right: that's the moment you realize she's not going to make it. Fantastic analysis, Olive, as always! So glad you liked this one.
And just how *subtle* Wharton makes that scene where she's burning them. You can feel she's totally at the end of her rope, frazzled and defeated. This very well may develop into a favorite. It's been camping out in my thoughts on a daily basis. I thought making this video would help. Like screaming my impressions out into universe would settle me down about it, but nope. I'm now more obsessed and want to do a part 2. Why am I like this?
Laurence Selden did not love Lily for who she was, on the contrary, he is full of criticism for her and her choices. Not only that, but, being an adulterer himself, he condemns her when he has reason to suspect her of adultery, and deserts her when she needs him most.
very spot on. when you grew up easy, you get attention and attract people effortlessly you never learn certain skills, you are not used to tricks, fights, you are not used to sacrifice things to get what u want. and when you lose your parents early in such calculating and competitive bubble, nobody teach you, guide you, you are on your own, vulnerable young unassuming pretty thing. an easy prey who thought she could catch her game just like being herself, not realizing the game changes the moment you lose one father. not having a mother with good value also matters.
Highly absorbing -a mix of romance,scandal, misfortune - Lilly lost in two worlds, wanted the best in both, but lost out ....well written - I loved it.
Hi Olive - I read The House of Mirth a couple of years ago, so my memory of it is blurred - I just remember Lily as a character I pitied. I don't remember disliking her, just that I thought she was delusional on her expectations and basically remember the downfall. But you've made me want to re-read it to catch all - or at least to go back to Edith Wharton. I know The Age of Innocence is her most well-considered book, but I'd recommend her short fiction - her Ghost Stories make a great Halloween read.
I finished this book last night and I absolutely loved it. Such a prescient and eerily relevant tale. The writing was absolutely enthralling, cutting and savage at certain points! Can't wait to re-read The Age of Innocence. P.S., I LOVE listening to you discuss books, you're wonderful! 🌹
idk if it's bc of my age but this book was painful to read. after this review i know how to channel my frustration better! i dont feel changed after reading the book but i guess it's a good representation of how some people lived at the time
You are brilliant and perfectly articulate what Edith was thinking about when she wrote House. I read House many years ago and still tremble inside when I come across any mention of this book. All is Vanity is the undercurrent of the book’s title and its content.
I loved this amazing analysis! thank you for sharing. particularly enjoyed what you said about lily being blinded by her own shine/brilliance. lovely! just subscribed
Your review is wonderfully incisive for focusing in on Lily’s possible psychology as well as the social commentary of this novel. Edith Wharton is one of my favorite authors and I am glad you enjoyed reading this book. Even though she won the Pulitzer for The Age of Innocence, I think The House of Mirth is the more interesting novel. Wharton deftly depicts the nuances of each descending social strata in which Lily finds herself. [The Pulitzer Prize didn’t exist at the time THM was published.]
I see Lily being torn between what her mother taught her to want (beauty and money) and what Lily truly wants, Love. She never married the men with ,money because she didn't Love them ~
Thanks very much for your elaborate explanation, saw the movie and a lot of questions remained..., should have read the book, but your explanation clarifies a lot.
Excellent analysis of Lily. My cousin, Edith Wharton, was chronicling the cut-throat, gilded, hypocritical, female constraining world she was born into and had to contend with. She does it brilliantly and devastatingly in HOM.
Lily overplayed her hand repeatedly. She lived beyond her means. She mingled with society far above her station. And like her mother, Lily was incapable of furthering her position through hard work. She wanted it handed to her instead.
Thanks for this post. I haven’t read the book but the movie was so memorable. Now I understand her character much better as it was frustrating to see her make so many mistakes. This is one of those movies one never sees televised or streaming so I may purchase to rewatch given this new information. Cheers!
Thank you so much for the summary. Being born abroad, I missed a lot of high school type required reading, and in college, I didn't have the time to catch up.
Some excellent observations about Lily's mother-- I agree.Of course, she was not unique at the time. Later in the book it Wharton says it was way before women were painting apple blossoms and roses on blotting paper and decorating fans; small ways in which "respectable" women could made some money. Lily lacked education and was brought up to be decorative-- like the girls in "society" in her time. 2. I don't agree that Lily gave up a life with Selden. He was extremely wishy washy . He didn't declare love for Lily. He knew well when he showed up at Bellmont that both Lily (whom he met at the station and invited to tea at the Benedic) was going to be there as well as Bertha Dorset, whom he knew was not over him. Meanwhile Lily "blew" her chances of going to church etc. precisely because Seldon was there. 3. Lily does not borrow money from Trenner. He invests for her and he gives her money without her knowing it. This is her undoing. She is hellbent on paying him back, which she does the night of her death when she gets the early check for ten thousand USD-- Even after he tricked her to coming to his house when Judy was away, Lily still has her self-respect and would never consider living a week on her inheritance, but makes out the check to him. That same self-respect, after Selden admits to no longer loving her, drives her to throw the letters into his fireplace. She's done with society... she doesn't want to be friends with Judy or Bertha-- the condition Rosedale makes on marrying her. Seldonis a block of ice and judged her when she came out of Trenner's house-- She's had it. BTW.. sleeping pills? Did you really just read the book... I find it fascinating that she's taking Chlorol (hydrate) -- and she's warned by the chemist that it's a "queer drug".... one or two extra drops and you go right off.....She dies a virgin, with uncompomised standards, which, I believe are hers... I doubt her mother would have allowed her to stick to her morals. When Seldon rises and runs to her to say "the word"--- I'm assuming he's finaly going to say he loves her, he's too late... Hope your read more Wharton,! I adore her work.
Lily views herself as a product (beauty, grace, intelligence) that must find the perfect place on the perfect shelf of life. I don't think entitlement is quite the word (because of its meaning in today's world). Beauty and appreciation for beauty are real. Lily loves, thrills to beauty. Her very high standards and expectations, on top of her need to be loaded (thank you, Olive) jest done her in. Alas, no one was quite good enough. I noticed that there is no reference to Lily and a need for love in her marriage. No talk about children. Lily's "making herself necessary" to those who paid her way: seems a lowly, dependent way to create "friendships".
This is my first video of yours, but the way you dissect the book, the characters and the way you interpret: made me subscribe to your channel. This the kind of booktubers we want
Miss Olive it's wonderful listening to you (it makes your beauty shine). Almost finished with the audiobook. What do think of the film adaptation with Gillian Anderson?
I didn't think she turned down all those guys because they weren't good enough. I thought she knew her role was to prostitute herself, but couldn't do it. She has integrity. She's a good person. Same for the letters. She wasn't "too good" for those guys, she was genuinely too good.
I hated Lily as a person. She had no grit, no stamina, no ability to fend for herself. She was a hypocrite, vain, stupid and weak. She expected to have her cake and eat it too, for everything to drop into her lap perfectly. She was given SO MANY opportunities to wisen up, change her life, get revenge on others and mature/GTFU but chose stupidity and imbelicility every time. She intentionally threw hurdles in her way as she was so pompous, but was too inept and weak-willed to have any real character or wisdom. She wanted a tragic end and I think even if her parents had lived and she didnt owe 10K she would have had the same fate as she was unable to capitalize on ANYTHING she had going for her. She is the epitome of a foregone conclusion/Greek tragedy!!
Hi Olive, I agree that Lily was too nice for the high society of New York. I always wondered if this was her way of rebelling against her mother. She ran after the rich husband but she would always find a reason not to marry the person. Even the person she truly loves and I thought she knew he loved her. Yet she continued to be evade marriage. But I was frustrated that she never going to become truly free.
I think it's all the more heartbreaking that she's never going to find freedom because she knows even early on what she *could* do to make herself happy. Leave this crowd behind, marry Selden, live a more modest life with a dedicated, intellectually stimulating partner. Perhaps you're on to something there - her rejection of everyone is her form of rebellion. I took her shirking away from all these men as a clear sign that she doesn't actually want to be part of this world. It's rubbing her the wrong way even when she's merely talking to a man who's interested in her. And then when Selden is around? She wants him MILES away from her when she's putting on a show trying to win this life she doesn't want. She knows it's all fake and contrary to her actual desires yet just won't wake up. I just wanna be her older sister and slap some sense into her lol
abookolive; Lolololol slap some sense into Lily. I love your perspective. I mean that and wish I could have done that for my brother. My brother lived a life of make believe until reality caught up with him. Like Lily he took his own life. Very sad.
I still don’t love the book but I love this analysis. Your insights were fantastic and I now know it was my frustrations with her actions that held me back from loving it more. I will reread one day with a different mindset. More reviews like this pretty please. Have you read Vanity Fair? Another great, frustrating woman. xx
I have a question. Did Seldon find out later that Lily had burned the letters? According to the novel "he hardly noticed the gesture at the time" suggesting that maybe he found some remnant of them later...is that possible? Thoughts anyone? Great review and loved this book which I finished minutes ago.
In the movie, he does see the smouldering letters in the fire, pulls them out & realizes what they were. He runs out to Lily's place, and finds her dead. I can't remember how close to the book this was, or was is a Hollywood Ending?
Great critique. Seldon also needs castigating, as he knew the social scene and the way he plays with then drops then plays with Lily is outrageous. He seems to be a covert misogynist. She was in love with him, and he saw that an played with it to her detriment. If he did not want to marry, then why tarry and play with her feelings. Sexual repressed attraction to a younger good looking man vs older rich tycoons also plays a part in her unconscious actions. Sexual repression in those times was common and also is a factor in Lily making such disastrous personal decisions.
I listened to Mirth last year and was so excited when I saw you were reading it because I wanted to hear your thoughts. You hit the nail on the head. I remember being so frustrated but also being aware at how tragic Bart is as a character. Thanks for this video!
Reading this book was like...watching a loved one make a choice you KNOW is wrong. You love them, you want them to have what they want, you're heartbroken when they fall BUT THE WHOLE TIME YOU WANT TO SCREAM AT THEM AND TELL THEM WHAT A DUMB THING THEY'RE DOING.
This is one of my favorite books of all time (and where my handle came from 😂) and you’ve made me want to pick it up again since it’s been years. I wonder what you’d think of The Custom of the Country, which features an MC who *does* have those nasty, vicious qualities needed to “succeed” in that social milieu.
I'm a huge Wharton fan, and that was BADASS. I love what you had to say on the subject, and can only pity Edith Wharton (nee Pussy Jones) the society she was forced to keep in the Gilded Age of New York. The nervous breakdowns she had didn't stem purely from sexual ignorance. Like Lily, Wharton was wholly unsuited to the life she was born into. True, she had nothing like Lily Bart's hypnotic good looks. But she had her fundamental decency, and that alone precluded her from ever finding happiness there. Also, Teddy Wharton was an asshole. So there was that, too. You did a great job!
Thank you! So pleased to know a Wharton fan thinks this was a good take! I still think about this book all the time. Can't wait to read her other books.
@@abookolive Promise me you will read SUMMER next. PROMISE ME. Full disclosure: In addition to being a huge rabid Wharton fan, I'm a full-time novelist who has read damn near everything there is to consume under the sun. So when I tell you this, it is no small thing. SUMMER is my favorite novel of all time. I've read it...well, let's see. Thirty times? Thirty-two, maybe? Every single time it gut-punches me right in the feels--not just because it's sad, but because it's beautiful for everything it says and everything it doesn't say. I would be THRILLED to hear your thoughts on it.
I have watched the movie so many times yet never read the book to have gotten the lowdown on Lily's mother and how Lily ended up with that wretched aunt! Looking forward to having a new experience of the movie now.....ha!
I love your analysis, though personally just cannot connect with this book or its characters at all. I do love the classics though, so thanks for this!
Hi! Could you please explain what do you mean when you say that Lily wants a husband that is "not just rich but loaded". I'm a portuguese speaker and I didn't understand the expression. I loved your video and your impressions about the book. Thank you.
@@MoniqueSinha But Lily did have money, there was some left over from her father, which her aunt supplemented with gifts, rather than an actual allowance. She just didn't have the serious money she required to allow her to live in the luxury she grew up with. Lily isn't bound by real poverty, but by her desire for luxury.
If Lily had been more patient, her aunt's death was sure to leave her with a tidy fortune, enough to live a respectable life. She needn't have gambled away her small income, either. Even after learning her aunt had only left her a small amount, Seldon the lawyer informs her he has figured out that she has just enough to live independently. But she insisted on giving the scoundrel Trenner the entire $10,000--a meaningless gesture. Her choices were all very stupid, she just slept-walked from one disaster to another.@@MorganScorpion
I went through a period of reading all of Edith Wharton’s books, she made an impression on me.
True, I did find the Age of innocence equally brave and beautiful! Very powerful author
Just finished novel 2 days ago, Lily is still fresh in my mind. You summed her up well to me; she did not have it in her to weaponize the letters. Yes she felt herself to be above many things but not all of them were vanity and survival oriented. Maybe because she did see herself so far above others, she also took the high road in her behavior. Like you said, "her DNA." Ultimately she demostrated that she, "was a good person." No dirty black mail for her. She needed to exited her scene earlier if she wanted to survive or marry Selden. She was killed by her lack of practicality. Wharton certainly made the reader care for Lily.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I always thought the reason Lily didn't use Bertha's letters to Seldon to redeem herself was because she loved Seldon--and Gertie, his cousin. She couldn't bring herself to buy success at the expense of breaching the trust of the only people in her life who loved her unconditionally. Lily had many flaws but she also had her own set of moral standards; there were lines she couldn't cross and still maintain a clear conscience. Wharton was absolutely brilliant at creating these moral dilemmas and she created them more often than not, I think.
I agree. I think she also thought she wouldn’t need to - like she could find a way out without having to stoop to Bertha’s level.
Excellent review. Thank you.
I've never been able to get thru House of Mirth because it's so painful to read, like watching someone total a car in slow motion. I really appreciate your review because it gives this poor character her due and articulates feelings I couldn't examine.
Very impressive analysis! What struck me about this book is that not only is Lily a complex character, but so is Selden and Gerty Farish. What am incredible novel .
Ever since I read this article in The Awl, I've been thinking more about Seldon than I am about Lily. I know CZcams doesn't like links in comments sometimes, so you can google it if you like, it's called "Men Like Him" and I wouldn't say I agree with it 100% but I am questioning my thoughts about this book, and can't wait to reread it with it in mind.
My thoughts on Lily are that she is a tragic figure in that *nothing* would have made her satisfied. She would have been just as unhappy married to Seldon as she would have been married to Percy or anyone else. She would have (was) unhappy being single. Unhappy striving, unhappy not striving. One of the saddest books I've ever read.
I always wished she would have taken Rosedale up on his proposal. There were no illusions there, it would have been a business deal of sorts, but I think she would have come to truly appreciate him in time and to find him fascinating.
Okay, come at me! LOL!
THAT'S the kinda booktube content we need! Fantastic video. You've encouraged me to bump this up my classics tbr. What a complex protagonist! An excellent delve into social expectations. Cheers ✌
Why, thank you! It's a really fantastic book.
Oh gosh, please do a part 2! You are so eloquent when you discuss books - and this is one that has been stuck on my mind since I finished it a couple of days ago. I agree with everything you said, she is such a well-written character! I can see why she does the things she does and it’s magical that Wharton was able to write a character so frustrating but one that readers can completely understand. When I started the book, I had no idea how tragic it would be. I’m tempted to even start making my own videos because I just want to discuss this book so much! I’ll eventually at least make an Instagram post haha but my thoughts are all scrambled!
This comment made me so happy, you have no idea lol. I hope you will make a video about it - I would absolutely love to watch it!
I may do a part two of this at some point. Maybe after a reread? There is another topic about it I know I could discuss at length but for now I'll probably move onto diving into the psychology of other literary heroines since apparently I'm obsessed with doing that, haha!
I'm so thankful to have been part of the early women's movement in the 70s. Young women like Lily were never able to develop life skills.
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I somehow lost the password. I would appreciate any help you can give me
I feel a lot of opportunities present now ate so taken for granted it's difficult for some people to read old books and understand the fear even. Women were considered property under the law until 1917. Lily was equivalent to a wardrobe in her time. Sad, but undeniable.
For me it was like reading/watching a train wreck in slow motion. Lily has to be one of the most tragic characters in American literature. Even more than Warton's Newland Archer in The Age of Innocence. Loved listening to this video. You untangled all of my spaghetti noodles of thought about the book perfectly!
This is one of my favorite novels, one I've read several times, and you've given me some new things to think about. The letter burning scene stunned me the first time I read it, and I think you're absolutely right: that's the moment you realize she's not going to make it. Fantastic analysis, Olive, as always! So glad you liked this one.
And just how *subtle* Wharton makes that scene where she's burning them. You can feel she's totally at the end of her rope, frazzled and defeated. This very well may develop into a favorite. It's been camping out in my thoughts on a daily basis. I thought making this video would help. Like screaming my impressions out into universe would settle me down about it, but nope. I'm now more obsessed and want to do a part 2. Why am I like this?
Laurence Selden did not love Lily for who she was, on the contrary, he is full of criticism for her and her choices. Not only that, but, being an adulterer himself, he condemns her when he has reason to suspect her of adultery, and deserts her when she needs him most.
very spot on. when you grew up easy, you get attention and attract people effortlessly you never learn certain skills, you are not used to tricks, fights, you are not used to sacrifice things to get what u want. and when you lose your parents early in such calculating and competitive bubble, nobody teach you, guide you, you are on your own, vulnerable young unassuming pretty thing. an easy prey who thought she could catch her game just like being herself, not realizing the game changes the moment you lose one father. not having a mother with good value also matters.
This video is not too long. In fact, it’s not long enough! Great analysis
Highly absorbing -a mix of romance,scandal, misfortune - Lilly lost in two worlds, wanted the best in both, but lost out ....well written - I loved it.
Hi Olive - I read The House of Mirth a couple of years ago, so my memory of it is blurred - I just remember Lily as a character I pitied. I don't remember disliking her, just that I thought she was delusional on her expectations and basically remember the downfall. But you've made me want to re-read it to catch all - or at least to go back to Edith Wharton. I know The Age of Innocence is her most well-considered book, but I'd recommend her short fiction - her Ghost Stories make a great Halloween read.
Hi! I'm from Hungary and a big fan of Edith Wharton! Thanks for this video. I loved Miss Lily Bart, she is so misunderstood :(
What a great take on this novel's heroine. It's one of my favourite novels.
I finished this book last night and I absolutely loved it. Such a prescient and eerily relevant tale. The writing was absolutely enthralling, cutting and savage at certain points! Can't wait to re-read The Age of Innocence.
P.S., I LOVE listening to you discuss books, you're wonderful! 🌹
Gorgeous review, Olive! I had the same feelings while reading The House of Mirth and feel delighted that you articulated them to everyone beautifully!
idk if it's bc of my age but this book was painful to read. after this review i know how to channel my frustration better! i dont feel changed after reading the book but i guess it's a good representation of how some people lived at the time
You are brilliant and perfectly articulate what Edith was thinking about when she wrote House. I read House many years ago and still tremble inside when I come across any mention of this book. All is Vanity is the undercurrent of the book’s title and its content.
I loved this amazing analysis! thank you for sharing. particularly enjoyed what you said about lily being blinded by her own shine/brilliance. lovely! just subscribed
I finished this book today and found your channel. I really enjoyed this video!
Thank you for such an articulate literary discussion! 😍
Happy reading! 💕
Your review is wonderfully incisive for focusing in on Lily’s possible psychology as well as the social commentary of this novel. Edith Wharton is one of my favorite authors and I am glad you enjoyed reading this book. Even though she won the Pulitzer for The Age of Innocence, I think The House of Mirth is the more interesting novel. Wharton deftly depicts the nuances of each descending social strata in which Lily finds herself. [The Pulitzer Prize didn’t exist at the time THM was published.]
Totally and completely agree. The Age of Innocence was really good but this is...this is mind blowing.
This book is so heartbreaking.
Olive. OLIVE! This is FANTASTIC. You offer such an interesting conversation into larger issues off of this novel. FANTASTIC.
Thanks Amy! I aim to be really extra in these analysis videos...mission accomplished lol.
I see Lily being torn between what her mother taught her to want (beauty and money) and what Lily truly wants, Love. She never married the men with ,money because she didn't Love them ~
This is one of my favorite books and your commentary was SPOT ON and so enjoyable. Thank you for a perceptive and erudite reading.
Agreed. Thank you for this post.
Wow, what an amazing examination on the novel! Edith Wharton is my favourite writer and you did this book justice!
Thanks very much for your elaborate explanation, saw the movie and a lot of questions remained..., should have read the book, but your explanation clarifies a lot.
Excellent analysis of Lily. My cousin, Edith Wharton, was chronicling the cut-throat, gilded, hypocritical, female constraining world she was born into and had to contend with. She does it brilliantly and devastatingly in HOM.
Lily overplayed her hand repeatedly. She lived beyond her means. She mingled with society far above her station. And like her mother, Lily was incapable of furthering her position through hard work. She wanted it handed to her instead.
Thanks for this post. I haven’t read the book but the movie was so memorable. Now I understand her character much better as it was frustrating to see her make so many mistakes. This is one of those movies one never sees televised or streaming so I may purchase to rewatch given this new information. Cheers!
Thank you so much for the summary. Being born abroad, I missed a lot of high school type required reading, and in college, I didn't have the time to catch up.
I LOVED this! Definitely going to read this soon! Also, your make-up is flawless :)
Thank you! It's that one special day per year when I put on eye makeup lol
She doesn't want to do blackmailing
Love your rendition and your personal analysis. Excellent!!!
Some excellent observations about Lily's mother-- I agree.Of course, she was not unique at the time. Later in the book it Wharton says it was way before women were painting apple blossoms and roses on blotting paper and decorating fans; small ways in which "respectable" women could made some money. Lily lacked education and was brought up to be decorative-- like the girls in "society" in her time. 2. I don't agree that Lily gave up a life with Selden. He was extremely wishy washy . He didn't declare love for Lily. He knew well when he showed up at Bellmont that both Lily (whom he met at the station and invited to tea at the Benedic) was going to be there as well as Bertha Dorset, whom he knew was not over him. Meanwhile Lily "blew" her chances of going to church etc. precisely because Seldon was there. 3. Lily does not borrow money from Trenner. He invests for her and he gives her money without her knowing it. This is her undoing. She is hellbent on paying him back, which she does the night of her death when she gets the early check for ten thousand USD-- Even after he tricked her to coming to his house when Judy was away, Lily still has her self-respect and would never consider living a week on her inheritance, but makes out the check to him. That same self-respect, after Selden admits to no longer loving her, drives her to throw the letters into his fireplace. She's done with society... she doesn't want to be friends with Judy or Bertha-- the condition Rosedale makes on marrying her. Seldonis a block of ice and judged her when she came out of Trenner's house-- She's had it. BTW.. sleeping pills? Did you really just read the book... I find it fascinating that she's taking Chlorol (hydrate) -- and she's warned by the chemist that it's a "queer drug".... one or two extra drops and you go right off.....She dies a virgin, with uncompomised standards, which, I believe are hers... I doubt her mother would have allowed her to stick to her morals. When Seldon rises and runs to her to say "the word"--- I'm assuming he's finaly going to say he loves her, he's too late... Hope your read more Wharton,! I adore her work.
I finally read this book and was able to watch this video. It certainly didn’t disappoint! 😍
Aw, thanks!
My favourite book and author
Great review !!!
Lily views herself as a product (beauty, grace, intelligence) that must find the perfect place on the perfect shelf of life. I don't think entitlement is quite the word (because of its meaning in today's world).
Beauty and appreciation for beauty are real. Lily loves, thrills to beauty.
Her very high standards and expectations, on top of her need to be loaded (thank you, Olive) jest done her in. Alas, no one was quite good enough. I noticed that there is no reference to Lily and a need for love in her marriage. No talk about children.
Lily's "making herself necessary" to those who paid her way: seems a lowly, dependent way to create "friendships".
I think Wharton literally lifted this story off of George Eliot’s DANIEL DERONDA and the character of Gwendolyn Harleth
This is my first video of yours, but the way you dissect the book, the characters and the way you interpret: made me subscribe to your channel. This the kind of booktubers we want
Thank you so much! Happy to have you here :)
Miss Olive it's wonderful listening to you (it makes your beauty shine). Almost finished with the audiobook. What do think of the film adaptation with Gillian Anderson?
Good stuff
I didn't think she turned down all those guys because they weren't good enough. I thought she knew her role was to prostitute herself, but couldn't do it. She has integrity. She's a good person. Same for the letters. She wasn't "too good" for those guys, she was genuinely too good.
Great job
I hated Lily as a person. She had no grit, no stamina, no ability to fend for herself. She was a hypocrite, vain, stupid and weak. She expected to have her cake and eat it too, for everything to drop into her lap perfectly. She was given SO MANY opportunities to wisen up, change her life, get revenge on others and mature/GTFU but chose stupidity and imbelicility every time. She intentionally threw hurdles in her way as she was so pompous, but was too inept and weak-willed to have any real character or wisdom. She wanted a tragic end and I think even if her parents had lived and she didnt owe 10K she would have had the same fate as she was unable to capitalize on ANYTHING she had going for her. She is the epitome of a foregone conclusion/Greek tragedy!!
Hi Olive, I agree that Lily was too nice for the high society of New York. I always wondered if this was her way of rebelling against her mother. She ran after the rich husband but she would always find a reason not to marry the person. Even the person she truly loves and I thought she knew he loved her. Yet she continued to be evade marriage. But I was frustrated that she never going to become truly free.
I think it's all the more heartbreaking that she's never going to find freedom because she knows even early on what she *could* do to make herself happy. Leave this crowd behind, marry Selden, live a more modest life with a dedicated, intellectually stimulating partner. Perhaps you're on to something there - her rejection of everyone is her form of rebellion. I took her shirking away from all these men as a clear sign that she doesn't actually want to be part of this world. It's rubbing her the wrong way even when she's merely talking to a man who's interested in her. And then when Selden is around? She wants him MILES away from her when she's putting on a show trying to win this life she doesn't want. She knows it's all fake and contrary to her actual desires yet just won't wake up. I just wanna be her older sister and slap some sense into her lol
abookolive; Lolololol slap some sense into Lily. I love your perspective. I mean that and wish I could have done that for my brother. My brother lived a life of make believe until reality caught up with him. Like Lily he took his own life. Very sad.
I still don’t love the book but I love this analysis. Your insights were fantastic and I now know it was my frustrations with her actions that held me back from loving it more. I will reread one day with a different mindset. More reviews like this pretty please. Have you read Vanity Fair? Another great, frustrating woman. xx
That's actually on my TBR for this month! Apparently I can't get enough frustration 😂
Thank you so much for this video. It was truly enlightening.
I have a question. Did Seldon find out later that Lily had burned the letters? According to the novel "he hardly noticed the gesture at the time" suggesting that maybe he found some remnant of them later...is that possible? Thoughts anyone? Great review and loved this book which I finished minutes ago.
In the movie, he does see the smouldering letters in the fire, pulls them out & realizes what they were. He runs out to Lily's place, and finds her dead. I can't remember how close to the book this was, or was is a Hollywood Ending?
Great critique. Seldon also needs castigating, as he knew the social scene and the way he plays with then drops then plays with Lily is outrageous. He seems to be a covert misogynist.
She was in love with him, and he saw that an played with it to her detriment. If he did not want to marry, then why tarry and play with her feelings. Sexual repressed attraction to a younger good looking man vs older rich tycoons also plays a part in her unconscious actions. Sexual repression in those times was common and also is a factor in Lily making such disastrous personal decisions.
Thank you so much, you have no idea how this video helped me
I listened to Mirth last year and was so excited when I saw you were reading it because I wanted to hear your thoughts.
You hit the nail on the head. I remember being so frustrated but also being aware at how tragic Bart is as a character.
Thanks for this video!
Reading this book was like...watching a loved one make a choice you KNOW is wrong. You love them, you want them to have what they want, you're heartbroken when they fall BUT THE WHOLE TIME YOU WANT TO SCREAM AT THEM AND TELL THEM WHAT A DUMB THING THEY'RE DOING.
I’ve been watching this movie over and over I love Lilly’s character
I think Wharton had lily burn the letters because Wharton read Henry Miller
He was her mentor
This is one of my favorite books of all time (and where my handle came from 😂) and you’ve made me want to pick it up again since it’s been years. I wonder what you’d think of The Custom of the Country, which features an MC who *does* have those nasty, vicious qualities needed to “succeed” in that social milieu.
You are Awesome!!!!
Thank you, that's very kind!
@@abookolive I think your analysis of the psychology of Lily was spot-on.
I'm a huge Wharton fan, and that was BADASS. I love what you had to say on the subject, and can only pity Edith Wharton (nee Pussy Jones) the society she was forced to keep in the Gilded Age of New York. The nervous breakdowns she had didn't stem purely from sexual ignorance. Like Lily, Wharton was wholly unsuited to the life she was born into. True, she had nothing like Lily Bart's hypnotic good looks. But she had her fundamental decency, and that alone precluded her from ever finding happiness there. Also, Teddy Wharton was an asshole. So there was that, too.
You did a great job!
Thank you! So pleased to know a Wharton fan thinks this was a good take! I still think about this book all the time. Can't wait to read her other books.
@@abookolive Promise me you will read SUMMER next. PROMISE ME. Full disclosure: In addition to being a huge rabid Wharton fan, I'm a full-time novelist who has read damn near everything there is to consume under the sun. So when I tell you this, it is no small thing. SUMMER is my favorite novel of all time. I've read it...well, let's see. Thirty times? Thirty-two, maybe? Every single time it gut-punches me right in the feels--not just because it's sad, but because it's beautiful for everything it says and everything it doesn't say. I would be THRILLED to hear your thoughts on it.
Excellent review!
Thank you kindly!
Hi I am trying to decide whether toisten to this Audiobook. I know nothing about this book.. So I look forward to listening to you to decide.
I have watched the movie so many times yet never read the book to have gotten the lowdown on Lily's mother and how Lily ended up with that wretched aunt! Looking forward to having a new experience of the movie now.....ha!
I love your analysis, though personally just cannot connect with this book or its characters at all. I do love the classics though, so thanks for this!
Great video! Would love to hear your take on The Fruit of the Tree.
Thanks. I just recently learned what a powerhouse Edith Wharton was...Exhibit A The House of Mirth.
Hi! Could you please explain what do you mean when you say that Lily wants a husband that is "not just rich but loaded". I'm a portuguese speaker and I didn't understand the expression. I loved your video and your impressions about the book. Thank you.
It's an American way of saying he is loaded with money--very wealthy.
Did Edith Wharton use her own mother when writing about Mrs. Bart?
I love this book, I always come back to the last meeting of Lily with Selden. You made some great points for me to think about!
With the title of your video “psychology” I thought you would have used the word narcissism to describe Lily
Read Dostoyevski,if you have not already
The book was written 1905 when women had no freedom and the only way to get some freedom is to marry someone.
But didn't Gertie Farrish have freedom?
@@MorganScorpion there’s no freedom without money and Lily only had her aunt which gives her irregular allowance.
@@MoniqueSinha But Lily did have money, there was some left over from her father, which her aunt supplemented with gifts, rather than an actual allowance. She just didn't have the serious money she required to allow her to live in the luxury she grew up with. Lily isn't bound by real poverty, but by her desire for luxury.
If Lily had been more patient, her aunt's death was sure to leave her with a tidy fortune, enough to live a respectable life. She needn't have gambled away her small income, either. Even after learning her aunt had only left her a small amount, Seldon the lawyer informs her he has figured out that she has just enough to live independently. But she insisted on giving the scoundrel Trenner the entire $10,000--a meaningless gesture. Her choices were all very stupid, she just slept-walked from one disaster to another.@@MorganScorpion