"Bro do u need a relay on the remote for runnin 4 amps"
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
- I got tired of getting shot down by experts on audio groups claiming that running multiple amplifiers on the same head unit remote output would be a bad idea, stress the head unit, cause issues, etc. So check out the info here and stay well informed about the workings of car audio electronics.
- Zábava
I've been trying to explain this to people for years. A basic multimeter could have told them what they needed to know, but no - "You're going to burn your amps up, idiot" is what I'd get when I gave them advice.
Thank you for proving this! 👍🏻
And naturally these "experts" use a cheap relay without protection diode and inductive kickback blows up the remote circuit of the headunit.
listening to experts is a lot like listening to the mainstream media that the same damn people
*Sam, you're going to piss off all of the "experts" on the Facebook audio pages like I Just Wanna Bang. How dare you set the record straight*
And if it was just amps this would be fine ....
@@scarr3ll haha, fans and lights lots of lights bud 😊
Boy, you've outsmarted us all. What numpties we are comparatively speaking.
@@brian69frmovale76 anyone who turns all their fans and LED strips on using the head unit remote should stop working on car audio immediately.
Ahahahahahah
Thank you for making this video. I have been a car audio enthusiast since 1986 and I started my first build in 1987 and I have never used a relay before. I have to admit though that I am currently working on my newest project vehicle and after seeing a few videos on CZcams I was going to add one to this project. After seeing the data from this video I must thank you for making me feel better about my past decisions and for helping me to make better choices in the future.
That makes 2 of us, I was about to give it a try until this Vid 😂🙌🏽🙌🏽
I love your explanation of everything in your videos easy to understand and very knowledgeable. Keep up the great vids.
Watch all your videos. And must have missed this one, as I built a relay harness yesterday for this specifically. 🤦🏻♂️ wow… as always, thank you for your knowledge and dedication to sharing it.
Brilliant! That was always a question in the back of my head. The test you did is what I was thinking would need to be done to answer it. More real world knowledge from Sam. Thanks!
I've never used a relay for multiple amps, but the numbers dont lie! Thanks for taking the time for this!
Hey Sam, seriously appreciate all the videos you're putting out at the moment. Love your work!
Thanks buddy! I have a huge tank of motivation at the moment and will be busting them out a fair bit!
@@barevids You really sound like you know your stuff. Would you mind helping me out with an issue I have? I've purchased and installed a Sony XAV-AX8050D Head Unit, Alpine R-D65C.2 Component Speakers, and a Pioneer PRS/D800 Amp. The sounds is great, however im getting a Pop Noise on turn off. I've tested it by removing the Remote On wire from the Amp when the engine is running and music is playing and don't get the noise when the amp goes off (whilst radio on) therefore must be the radio causing it by turning off before the Amp? I've spoken with the company I purchased the gear from and they've told me to wire directly to the ignition live instead of Remote on, and this may help it, but they said they sometimes get it and can't resolve it..... Do you think the ignition live idea will sort the pop instead of remote live?
Been daisy chaining remote turn ons for years and have never had a problem. Thank you for addressing this!
Need to keep this video alive and well. Good one Sam! Share this one across the board.
I’ve been saying this to my buddies for years!!!! Thanks for the video my man
Thank you so much Sam. I love these shorter educational vids
Great info man. I've wondered about several facts you've mentioned in this video. I do use a relay in my system, and I only have 3 amplifiers. But I use the relay to turn on a few more things besides the amps. I have a couple sets of lights, and a couple fans. I also have each of my amplifiers on a rocker switch so I can shut them off individually if I need to. Great informative video about some info that matters. Thanks for sharing the content!
Great video, and short enough for me to watch. Back in the day used an automotive relay that the coil draw was 30ma.
Excellent video! Love these quick nuggets of knowledge based in fact!
I have two amplifiers with a relay on each but after watching this I will be removing at least one of them. Very educational.
Thanks for the video! I always suspected that the amplifiers themselves didn't draw very much current for the turn on circuitry but it's cool to see it actually measured. I've always used a turn-on relay when a build is using other accessory power components like fans for an amp rack, LEDs stuff like that. The fans I like to use (the BeQuite PC fans) are rated between .14 - .3 amps each and the super bright SMD LED strips are 2 amps at 16 feet I believe. The last build I did used a relay that switched 2 amps, 4 fans and a fair amount of LED lighting, I fused the relay at 5a. Next build I do, I'll see if I can clamp for accessory lead current just out of curiosity!
Well said, great demo! Thanks for sharing your expertise, much appreciated!
This myth comes from the early days of car audio when amplifiers didn’t have remote turn on inputs. I’m talking the late 1970s. Some amps used relays to turn themselves on.
Those days have been over for 35 years.
I've NEVER run a relay on my remote wire when running multiple amp. It's NEVER given me a problem, EVER. I'm currently running 4 amps. All run directly off the remote. Everything turns off and on just like it's supposed to. For whatever that's worth.
Cheap headunits are the only ones I have ever had problems with
Word..truth..that transistor looks about the size of a sugar ant.
You are fantastic and scientifically fit. Thanks for being generous and to the point.
Great demonstration.. always wondered if it was necessary..
I’ve been questioning this for the past few days as I completely upgrade my car audio for the first time. I’ve been told max 2 wires daisy-chained & find another location for my third. While I’m not very experienced with car audio, this makes perfect sense. I was wondering why there was a “max number of lines” for a remount on lol. It’s not like it’s powering the amp on.. even though who I spoke to were acting as if it was lmao. Thank you, sir! Well said & much appreciated.
yeah the idea is not so much just the relay its think about the multiple points of failure you have.
with a relay you got a single voltage input. you got a single switch wire and then you have your output.
so when something goes wrong you simply trouble shoot : am i getting power to where?
or the old Christmas light hours of fun which lights burnt out???
.with a coble of splices, and bad crimp connectors and fighting with solder and shrink wrap... ,
yeah ill get a good ole bosch relay and a inexpensive terminal block and keep from pulling my hair out
Thank you for this. Always wondered if it was beneficial.
I've had plenty of people mention relays should be used in the hundreds of installs I've done. Not once have I ever used one, and not once have I ever burned out the remote out an any stereo. Never a problem with paralleling the remote. Never have hooked up 20 amps, bit now I know for fact I can.
Imagine all the wasted man hours wiring up and making a spaghetti mess of jobs that absolutely didn't need it. Glad I've never contributed to the waste.
Good subject, nice to see someone make sense of it for the masses.
I love videos like this. The only time I've ever considered a relay is when the remote wire is a 6 volt line. This is usually a stock ford amp thing IDK, but I ended up finding an empty fuse location that activates with the ACC key position n tapped my power from it. I've always wondered about daisy chain but never hook up more than 3 amps n always daisy chained n figured if it didn't work then relay.
Great video brother!!! Thanks for sharing! 👏🏼👊🏼👍🏼🥰
All comments are about the relay in the amps pulling power, but nobody mentioned the headunits. Back in the day, there was the misconception that the "remote power wire" did not have enough amperage to turn on the amps relays in multi amp systems. Hence the addition of the extra relay. With all this new techno advances, us old schoolers, as I am, just played it safe. And EXCELLENT VIDEO WITH THIS TEST. Next test the headunit!!!!
Not sure if misinformation somewhere you've read, but the remote wire has never powered the internal relay in car amps. The relay inside is fed by a PNP transistor grounding the 12v VCC feed that supplies things like TL494, NPN Drivers, fans etc. A little timer circuit supplies currently slowly to the PNP and it eventually conducts, giving the relay coil a path to ground from 12v VCC.
Awesome video keep up the good work 👍
Many old school amps drew more current. I had 5 amps that kept burning up the remote output on my decks. I measured their collective draw at a little over 2.5A. In that case the relay made more sense. That’s not to say there may have been some other underlying issue.
Super vid man, Great information.
Thanks for the Tips bro✌️
I've only had issues two times when I daisy chained the remote wire to a subwoofer amp and to the factory amplifier. In those cases I went the old school route and wired the subwoofer amplifier to a toggle switch.
Thanks for the knowledge
and my stuff (2 amps Bass and Door speaker amp) uses Kicker's Auto Sense Tech so no remote wires are necessary for my set up. Been working flawlessly for the last 2 years.
That Prime amp in the back is the best one.
Very informative! Thank you!
Test, don't guess.
Thanks for this. I've never used a relay but I've only put up to four amps in one car also
I have had problems hooking amps to the remote on headunits before but usually just find an accessory that shuts off with the key in the off position not add a relay.
Relays are useful in some applications. Like powering up a cooling fan for example(not by remote wire). But for power remote turn on for amps is a "Fad" not a necessity. The amps don't care, they just want to know to be on. It's a trigger, just like the trigger wire on your alternator.
Awesome video....good info
We had different head units with blown remote lines, all caused by an amplifier/s letting the magic smoke out.
Most were flagship models running a few front stage amps and multiple sub amps.
If I'm just running an sq system no relay is fine.
SPL... I would use the relay just in case I create an amp-le-fire.
P.s. don't forget the diode the suppress induced voltage.
I think this myth just goes around because old amps had relays in them to turn on so if you had 4 or more amps you would be looking at 600MA or so pull on the remote line. Some old habits die hard.
Agreed though no need for it on modern amps!
I’m new here and I don’t run a relay and I run (6)pioneer 1200 rms to (6)skar evls and have no problems thanks for the video
Thats very good information so the only reason u will need relays is for lights and fans
Thank you for making this video! I've been daisy chain amps for years and people look at me like I fell off the turnip truck. Maybe people think it takes a lot of power because most amps have a 4 gauge wire input for the remote turn on?
CES makes a nice little package that can turn on multiple amps. Only reason you should run is is because the strain on your headunit imo. less likely to have any weird issues. But like ALOT of amps lol. 10 or more is what I've always said. Interesting it seems to coincide with this :)
Honestly never looked at the amp ratings, kinda just always been a rule of thumb. Cool to see it all broken down!
Sam..easy with the logic brother..definitely leave this video up.
about time some one said it been saying it for years two thumbs up
Thank u for making it clear.. 🙏👌🔉🔉
Thank you for this video...
Now to share this like mad on all the groups like Bassheadlife, I Just Wanna Bang, etc. hahaha. I love coming across your comments on Bassheadlife shutting idiots down with facts.
your the man thank you sir!
Never used a relay and am not going to. I've ran multiple amps using the daisy chain method and never had 1 fail to power on. I've had multiple discussions with people that you don't need a relay.. its just 1 more part to fail.
Thanks for sharing!
Put my mind at ease.....glad I did my homework before I listen to people.
It's amazing how much misinformation is in the car audio hobby. Some of it was carried over from the good ol days back in the 80s and 90s, but is still around somehow.
It’s SO bad.
Pretty much sums up my comment about this.
The "old school" amps used actual electro-mechanical relays that had more current pull than the solid-state transistor (fet) switching of today's amps with is much more efficient.
Back in the 90's I NEVER used a relay. Just ran everything right off the remote wire. I never had any problems with it.
Oh and yeah I been doing car audio since the early 90's and am still doing car audio today. Currently running a four amp system in the truck. Capable of doing 101dbs. Well, at least that's the highest it's hit so far. It's a work in progress. Anyway, I'm pushing 50. It's hilarious seeing kids looks when the wife and I get out of the truck. Down right hilarious!!!
i 2nd this. im active in LOADS of electronics hobbies from home to car to commercial to tube to computers to game console repair and by FAR car audio is always the worst
Keyboard warrior era.
some amps draw more current from remote line than others.
I have seen some cheap amps using the remote line to drive the fan circuit and some flash LED logos.
I don't think it's about the draw but it does help stop the thump you can sometimes get through speakers when running multiple amps
with much respect and love for you , from a fellow MB repair guy- , why get rid of a MAJOR PROTECTION DEVICE that is only 2.50$ USD ...
its more than just running multiple amps, I would install one to run 1 amp , or DSP/EQ/what-ever ... way be at the mercy of sock/headunit failer when you can eliminate a potential problem that can DESTROY amplifiers because of random/various issues beyond your control, (water leaked into your dashboard/kid spilled a soda -that caused the head unit to short-out, and your AMlifer got fried by the .1ms it took to pop the fuse ...
Hey buddy! The circuit in the amplifier that is connected to the remote wire is completely isolated from any power stages or high voltage etc. In my years repairing amps I have never once seen an amplifier kill a head unit down the remote wire, or vice versa. The same cannot be said about the rcas however, ive seen auxiliary supply rails go nuts and generate about 50v potential to the pre-amp OPamps, causing them to short and throw that voltage back at the head unit, but never once has the remote caused anything like that. It's an extremely low current logic level signal that is extremely far removed from any part of the circuit that will fail in a dangerous manner. The worst that could happen is the amp sends 12v back down the remote wire to the head unit, which will result in the head unit seeing 0v potential and near infinite resistance, posing no risk whatsoever.
Yes!! BOOM! Myth blown out of the water! Thats the kind of video we need PROOF! Thanks I could pick your brain all day with questions like that. Can you do something similar on getting the best signal to amp, rca, balanced vs non balance, 1 volt vs 8 volts,mono vs. Stereo vs. L + R, twisted, shielded, tie them in a knot, you get it. Within a noisy environment= cellular, ignition, alternator, gps,tps,abs,(heater fans, mirrors, windows), Ecm, power seats. Bla bla it seams so hard to get clean unaffected signal 12 feet.
At first I was like "They are trying to run 4 amperes through a head unit??" lol
Great damn video!
I’ve now seen 4 people on Facebook hook up sea flow fans to the remote line. One customer is mad because the shop wouldn’t warranty the headunit
this is how this whole thing actually started because way back in the day someone started to put loads on their amp turn on wire.
and the rest is history and that's why people keep spouting this nonsense today.
in the very early days of car audio you could have up to 20 devices on a head unit for turn on because back then you literally had 20 devices in your car audio system and that would include a tape deck a CD player probably a mini disc maybe a DVD player or a few DVD players then you would have all of your monitors you could easily get up to 40 devices in a vehicle fully loaded,
think about those show cars from back in the early 2000s where you had almost a hundred different devices running off of the turn on.
as fun as it was back in those days to wire up all these things it's not really needed today and most people barely have a few devices on their aunt turn on leads.
I relay switch the remote from the head unit simply because I use that feed for fans and lights etc. I then relay off that feed to fans etc to separate unwanted noise down the amp remotes xx
Hell yeah when adding anything current-driven a relay is always the way, and if its already there you may as well tap off it for the amps as well.
you can do this - but only if the coil of the relay has a diode in parallel to kill spikes feedback to the headunit...
My head unit doesn't state the power output in the manual for the remote. But I'm assuming it's upward of 1A like you said (AVH-200Eax) as I run a 140mm fan off my remote wire for one of my two amps.
I should be well under 0.2A with this configuration since the fan states 0.14A at 12v. It's not ideal. But it works. Does add noise similar to alt whine but more of a static sound vs high pitch noise. Only audible when car is idle and my air is off. With my air on low or higher it disappears in the noise. Impossible to hear while moving.
Thanks for the video! Good to know I can add 100+ Amplifiers to my car now using the rem.🤣
A little capacitor across the fan would probably sort that noise
@@fedgeno Probably yeah. I never tested that as I just ran a dedicated Fused 10A line to the back of my car that's for the fan and my backup camera. No more noise and it turns on with the car.
Makes sense, solid state vs mechanical current draw.
I been watching for a while this guy is the guru of electronics a master of electrical art
I was just daisy chaining to avoid spending money on a relay 😂
The only time I use a relay (solid state, 5 mA draw) in my remote turn on is when I have a hidden amp rake with ducted fan cooling. It only turns on the fans not the amplifiers.
gods work
You are adding another device that potentially adds pops to your system due to the relays inductance and sudden energy release!
Thank you for this video, no one I know believes me when I tell them this. Of course I’m no expert, just an average fiddler.
Wealth of knowledge
Great demonstration. I'm a believer in sensing circuits drawing less power.
OK. How about active crossover vs. passive crossover networks? Is it even possible to measure any benefit between the amp to the speakers from one design to the other?
Crossover should be done pre-amp.
I have 3 amps, a dsp and a voltage display on the radio remote turn on and it works without issues.
thank you for this 😂
Using a relay will protect the head units remote output in the case one of the amplifiers shorts out or you are turning on other equipment that pulls higher current than the head unit can supply.
The remote from the head unit has a very high output impedance. You can short it dead to ground and it won't be hurt in the slightest.
Great video. I have one amp for one subwoofer and I get a turn on and off thump. Will a relay help in this situation? Or am I doing something wrong here?
Some head units from 90s and 00s have terrible remote output, not even 10v at 50mA.
Some old amps also pull 50+mA for the remote and needs to be 12v. Not even 11v turns them on.
What's your relay current pull at 10v or 8v?
Can you explain how to get rid of subwoofer pop at turn on. Do I need a delay timer relay??
My Taramps Bass30k wont power up with headunit remote xD. Had to use a relay. I never actually measured how much current did it draw. Now im interested tho.
now i'm interested. let us know.
More than likely a voltage threshold issue rather than current draw. We run into this more than you would think at our shop.
So just an example, if you check a newer Dodge truck (15+) for reverse 12v+ signal it shows 12.5v on the cheap multimeter but wont turn on reverse input for a camera on JVC/Kenwood radios reliably. Put a micro relay or relay on it and it works fine. It is actually pulsing the 12v very fast as seen on a Fluke or scope and the relay being mechanical makes the PWM signal from the BCM analog(ish) enough to work.
Hmm. Just measured. Bass30k that i have draws 860mA from remote wire xD. That is @15.5V
I have never in my life used a relay to turn on a remote, it would seem silly to me to use one seeing the power that runs through that super thin wire.
The remote connection is just a simple signal 0/1, 1 means the amplifier remote is pulled to positive, 0 means is pulled to ground, it's that simple. no need to use a relay that can draw a massive current and also maybe they do not have blocking diode/flyback diode for back-EMF paralled to the relay hahaha, maybe these experts you are referring to are those people that hear stuff hahaha, just because the remote has big terminal does not mean it draws massive current.
WHAT IS A GOOD MOSFETS TO USE 12 VDC AUTOMOTIVE 80 AMP IN PLACE OF RELAY FOR RADIATOR FANS?. NEEDS TO HAVE HIGH INRUSH UP TO 75AMP AND 20-30 AMP CONTINUOUS RATED
okay I got a question then... I wanna put a fuse block in back of my radio to power my accessories (radar, mirror, camera, etc.) because I don't want to just tap power from the same source; BUT I want these ON/OFF with the car. So I have to tap off the ACC wire for that signal but I don't wanna put so much draw on that one ACC wire so can/should I use a relay in this case?
I currently have the problem, that i use a Pioneer TS-WX130DA under my passenger seat and i want to add another one under my driverseat. So on i also run a Spectron SP-N4400 for my ESX QXE speakers in the front and the back.
Following i would have 3 remote + 1 (radio).
Currently they are parallel, and so on my question is, if i somehow can daisy-chain the ts-wx130da's or should i daisy-chain one cable from the back of my car (from the spectron) to the front to the new Ts-wx130da.
I also do have a relay here, but not built in yet: HJR-4102-L-12V
I thought about the relay, because i currently have already some remotes parallel.
What would be the wisest decision in your guys opinion?
And if i should daisy-chain the ts-wx's does someone know if this is actual possible with these active subwoofers?
I'm happy about every answer :D
I tried to turn my taramps bass 30k and it turned on and wouldn't come out of protect. I added a relay it turned on. Other then that never used a relay.
It's not about current, but resistance. I have an old radio that does not provide a convenient remote out as it's designed to block third party devices from connecting to it -- it actually disables the entire infotainement system if it detects an additional unregistered device on the canbus and locks out any other device from accessing MOST. There is a remote on from the HU, but it connects to the audio harness buried deep in the dash in a non-accessible location. So I plan on bypassing system audio entirely and driving the amps from my phone, which means I'll be tapping into some other device that powers on automatically - for example the daytime running light, but this other device may not be designed to handle the extra resistance from three amps, which has to be very high in order to draw only such a small current across system voltage, and I don't want to expose my running light circuitry to this resistance. But I agree that circuits designed to function as a remote on from the OEM should have no problem being daisy chained like this.
Current is directly tied to resistance. Current is a resultant of voltage applied to a given resistance. Current tells you the resistance.
@@barevids Yes, but inversely, R = 14.3/I. Low resistance means high current, obviously. The *only* reason you can get very small currents in a circuit within an automobile is because you have a lot of resistance on that circuit, or you have a transformer upstream that is converting system voltage into something else. There are no transformers sitting in front of remote turn on leads.
@@robertsussland1876 I'm not sure what you are talking about. The remote on an amplifier is triggered by simply charging the base of a tiny transistor, often with further series resistors. The resulting "resistance" measurable across remote-in and ground is extremely high, many hundreds of thousands of ohms, if not in the Mohm range, thus extremely low current. I think you are confused about how this works.
@@barevids You are re-iterating what I just said and agreeing with my point. If you do not have access to a head unit remote on lead, then just grabbing a live low voltage lead that is powered when the car is on and using that to daisy chain is going to mess with the resistance of the circuit. This is why people use relays, to add a smaller resistance load to their circuit. Not sure what is so confusing about this.
a fe years ago i Had an AA 12k (signed by JP before D4S was really a thing lol) burn the PCB when it did it dumped 180v ish on to the remote line and took out my fosgate for my mids and set fire to my pioneer head-unit like actual fire the head unit cost 2x more then the amp. all in all it was my fault it was a 12k on mild electrical stock alt (165A) 3 batteries 80Ah ea and a 65Ah under the hood.
new wall build
4X sundown SFB-8000D's on 4x Avatar STU-1546 15" D2's running inverted in a 2:1 4th order with 14cf total (i know kinda small but it's an 06-XB C-puller wall daily driver)
single 320A ALT with 960Ah's of LiFe Power and 8 banks of Maxwell ultra-caps 1 bank per amp input. have 3 more 270A alt's on a trailer mounted power unit for extended demo power.
trailer is a DIY squaredrop camper and the entire build is getting an itasha Wrap with once the wall is complete. the XB and the Trailer are bother Bagged and Sync'd
here is my input. I run 5 class d amps for subs, 3 amps for mids and highs, a line driver and an led strip driver and volt meter that all run off of the remote wire from my kenwood kdc x998. So no relay needed......
New digs? Looks tidy.
Might be a stupid questiom....but...when you supply a relay it's 12v power supply doesn't that take the stress off of the radio trigger or remote wire? So yes the relay requires more power to work. But that power isn't solely provided by remote wire from radio. That wire just triggers the relay. Maybe I am wrong. Just trying to sort this out in my head.
I need to turn on four computer fans...three 90s amps and led lights. I was planning on using a relay but now wonder what would be best for remote turn on as far as wear and tear on the head unit. Ty for your help
Use a relay for this, because fans draw considerable current ☺
I do hobby electronics and car audio and this always seemed odd to me. I didn't have the stuff to test it though. Need to invest in a Fluke.
Yeah for the .00001 of variation in voltage probably not worth the effort to invest in a fluke.
Unless you find a used one dirt cheap or your an electrician
How do I wire the remote from the head unit to the amp and isolator of a second battery? I'm only getting .7m amps at the amps remote lead.
I have a lithium bank that is isolated from the other batteries it is only in the circuit when the head unit is on. The head unit turn on wire activates it should I use a relay to activate it instead of the head unit turn on wire?
done many systems with many amps and processors and never killed a deck yet