wedding client refused to pay me for photos. so I sued her.
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- čas přidán 25. 09. 2018
- A situation that happened nearly 10 years ago caused me to learn a valuable lesson, which I wanted to share with you guys.
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Hi! You guys have asked me a few questions about this video, so I thought I'd answer them here :)
1. "Did she ever respond to your video?" No, she has not.
2. "Do your families still speak?" No. Our families do not speak, we have not had any contact after this situation. My Mom and her Mom are also no longer friends.
3. "Did you appeal the verdict?" No. I gave up after I lost the first time.
4. "But you said it was a gift, you shouldn't have been expecting anything." I was being polite by offering as a gift, she declined and insisted on paying me. The final agreement between both parties was that I was to be paid. Initially the agreement was just wedding photography, but then she started adding on extra things. Because I was under the impression I would be paid, it wasn't a huge deal to me. I was wrong for making that assumption.
5. "Do you have any idea if they still use your pics today?" Ah, I really don't know. Maybe?
6. "Would you sue someone again if need be?" Yeah, I would.
7. "Do you have any idea if they see your work now?" No idea.
8. "Who paid for the court hearing?" I did. It was about $85 to file.
9. "How did your experience effect taking pictures for family + friends?" I tend to avoid photography for close friends/relatives at all costs. Personal decision of mine. It has saved me a lot of relationships.
10. "Where did this happen? Lebanon?" This took place in Michigan. I made a mistake editing out a small snippet of my video where I mention I came back from vacation in Lebanon (sorry guys I edited this at 2am and watched it 50,000 times so I missed that).
The purpose was just to share my story as a learning experience. Nothing else.
Thank you for all the comments and for watching this video. Love you all. AND GET A CONTRACT! :P
Jessica Kobeissi plus you also got the photos printed for the trial. Damn m relating sooooo much with your case, just that it happened to me just couple months ago. I wanted to take them to court, but I backed out. It was a graphic designing work for a cafe walls designing. They exactly did the same thing. When the work happened in phases, they appreciated every bit of it, but when ‘they’ asked for the estimate, my whole work was crap ‘and copied’ for them. That hurt, real bad. Had literal depression through it. Learning though helps. Wanna give u a high five for this!
Agree with everyone else. You own the photos. She can ask you to not post them publicly, but she can't force you not to. If I were you, I'd be posting them :-)
I have don't one wedding for a family member and I will never do any family pictures for anyone. Expect my sister, bc I know she will pay me.
I came up with good ideas and no one! NO ONE wanted to do it. I had people say take this picture. Touching my camera.
Also. I stay a night with the person. (Family member ) We got up early. She was getting ready for her wedding. Remind you. We just got up. The first thing I was doing was. Getting out of the bed and brushing my teeth.. someone ask her who taking her pictures and she pointed to me and said her. Like she was annoyed or something. I'm the type of person to say something, but I was being nice. For once. In my life.
When I told her to breath bc it look like she was nervous and she got mad saying that stuff is pissing me off. And I said nothing. ( i said stuff in my head tho)
I Had other people not getting out of the away when taking pictures and I was so tired of people. And regret doing it.
I should have gotten paid. For the way she was. But she was late to her own wedding.
The wedding started at 5 i think. We didn't start till 7 or 8
Didnt you say that those conversations all took place in email?like the agreement to do pics, then her ansisting you be paid? Did you not bring those emails to court? Because that right there can be used as a contract.
@@stutiarya always set up a schedule of payments to be made throughout the designing process and put it in the contract. If they don't approve the work each step by making a payment you don't do anything more on the project. Never work on spec, having the confidence it takes to demand payments in a written contract let's them know you're a professional and expect to be treated as one. There are many groups on Facebook that target various entrepreneur industries, find one and ask for guidance and support. You'll find people who will be more than happy to advise you.
I hate when people say "money is not an issue." Then pay up lol
I guess it isn't an issue when u don't plan on paying lol
YESSSSS!!!!!
@@ashdeeble6546 🤣
Tbh she kinda played herself by taking her word for it and letting her family member convince her to sue without any proof that they agreed on a payment
My psycho ex roommate is one of those people. She yelled at an electric company over the phone about when she’s going to pay for the electricity to her shop, which was only around 9 bucks a month. “I can pay it, it’s not that much” okay then pay it. Stop fighting them over 45 dollars. Pay them their damn money before they shut off your electricity and your shop gets closed down. 🤦🏼
She skipped out on paying you *$300* dollars????
What did she serve at her wedding? Lunchables with a side of stolen ketchup packets from McDonalds?
Jesus.
My exact thoughts when I saw that estimate. Even $300 is damn near free for the amount of work she did!
I’ve had clients skip out on $100 lol
she is middle easter client i guess the family will do the feeding work lol :)
You animal! Who puts ketchup on Lunchables! Lunchables are to be served as charcuterie with 2 Buck Chuck and stolen honey from KFC.
Hahahahaha i just imagined all of the story
this is the type of person who will eat whole meal at a restaurant and then will call a waiter to say they didn't like it and refuse to pay for it.
yes!! perfect analogy
No it's not like at all. It's more like somebody calling Staples and ordering a pizza, being told they don't serve pizza, replying that they can make a great pizza and this is their time to get some great experience making pizza, the Staples staff then saying "We'll do our best," and then having a box of paper show up with some pepperoni on it. Then a few weeks later Staples realizes they just lost a bunch of time and money doing that and sues the guy who ordered a pizza from them they told him they couldn't make, but did their best anyway.
Amazing analogy! Those are the worst ppl!!!
“I mean.. lets ask the audience 🍽”
I dont get this kind of people if i order something and i didnt like it its my taste buds fault😂 i tried, didn't like thats fine i still have to pay for it
As a musician, this has almost happened to me. Why do people think things like photography, art, music, etc...should be free?
I'm a seamstress and I have been taken advantage of more times than I care to admit
@@dindog22 that is so frustrating! The work you do is valuable and has monetary worth.
It’s like people forget that what you’re doing takes time, training, supplies...and costs money. Sorry that happened to you.
Sometimes people think artists, photographers, musicians were born with the talent and drew like Picasso, played the piano like Mozart and took Photographs like Professionals when they were 2 years old and it doesn’t even take time or effort so why should they pay?
WELL NEWS FLASH BABY, THIS PEOPLE TRAIN AND LEARN FOR YEARS AND EVEN IF IT’S A DRAWING MADE IN 5 MINUTES THERE’S STILL YEARS OF BLOOD, SWEAT AND TEARS BEHIND IT
It’s like not paying a carpenter for doing your bathroom’s sliding doors, but everyone would be in the carpenter’s side so why can’t it be the same with photography, art, music, etc?
@@izzysmoonstones2086 what gets me is even prodigies had to practice and learn. They learn quickly, and they struggled like everyone, too!
I’ve learned from my husband, if you have a skill, people will try to screw you over. My husband has computer and mechanical skills, and I can’t tell you how many ‘friends’ wanted him to work on their cars for free. It’s one thing if a person offers, it’s another to expect it. Very frustrating!
because they are seen as desperate "hungry artists" and therefore people see an opportunity to take advantage of them.
The real loser in this story is the husband. Can you imagine being married to a woman like that?
And he can not even opt out of the marriage without having to fear something like this to happen. Poor guy...
aawww ikr. I feel SO bad for him, he must feel so trapped
I really feel that this came from him. He didn't liked the pictures and refused to pay for them. So, even if she liked, she tried to be on his side and did what he wanted.
100% agree
Best comment!
And now look at you, just photographed Felix and Marzia's wedding..beautiful pictures.
Did she really?
123 ABC yes!
WOWW
@@ABC-pj8ly yes, and look Maria's Instagram her weddings photos and she did tagged to Jessica
... i am crying
I'm watching this 2 years after the video and over 10 years since the incident, and I'm still livid on your behalf.
Nostalgia Nerd truly a Nostalgic Nerd but not as much as me 😎
Saaame! Especially that email! Uuughgghhh!
Same!
same
Funny seeing you here. Love your stuff. But this story really shows the dark side of being young and naive. How even people you trust can take you for a ride depending on the situation. Sad really.
Nah, after losing, just expose them. They seem like the people who care about their reputation. Making an idiot of them would kill them.
True true!! That’s a win in itself
that would result in a lawsuit, this is not a criminal offense, therefore, publishing the names would break several laws....
@@xxes11xx it wouldn't be defamation tho..
@@xxes11xx The offense doesn't need to be criminal to be exposed and there's nothing to sue if it's the truth. She isn't contesting the legality of what she did, but the moral.
Doing dirty to people in front of public worldwide audience isn't a very mature thing to do. OK the situation was unfair ect but nobody died to go such extent. This is the kind of thing toxic ppl would do.
moral of this story: Never mix personal friends and family with business
never, ever!
amen
Not true...those people are just shitty. My cousin's mom got remarried. Told her $75 to take pictures outside of the courthouse and inside the courthouse. Paid me as soon as I finished.
Yeah I agree. Neveer
Yep....
$300? she couldn't afford to pay $300 for a wedding? After engagement photos and prewedding -_- What a cheapskate...
Winston Sirajuddin “i had to pay this man $400 to retake my photos.” well she just lost $100 more, pff what a loser.
And invitations
When I first got a digital 35 mm someone at my wife’s job hired me to photograph her wedding. It was her second marriage so it wasn’t very fancy. It was around a 4 or 5 hour shoot. I charged $300. Put all the images on a disc and I was done.
@@gallenofwater more than 100. she had to get hair and make up. but for all we know that guy wasnt really a photographer.
sad world a'int it? I was on the verge of working for a Rap artist and I was ONLY charging $300...Mind you I'm going to them, Shoot the video, AND EDIT...and $300 was too much for them...
$300 for that amount of wedding photography and custom invitations is nothing. NOTHING.
No legal expert here, but the fact that she asked for an estimate proves that she was supposed to pay you. I don't know why the judge would have disagreed with that.
The problem is that she took her word for it and didn't have it in writing so the other lady could've easily deny it
@@stansmith5610 but the email IS in writing, and the person’s point is that it’s hard to understand why a judge would not see that it proves the other party had originally intended to pay.
@@lindsaybusks6011 the asking for the estimate was over the phone. The lying girl probably said she didn't ask for it.
I think the issue is that her lawyer advised her to ask for $1500 in court, instead of the original $300. With the facts of the case (she was a family friend doing a favor, wasn't expecting to be paid as much as a professional, asked for $300 originally), that $1500 doesn't make sense, and lost her the case because it came across as greedy within the context of the case. Had she stuck to the $300 estimate she would have won hands down.
@@cleo5892 Also if she admitted like she did in this video that she made it clear she wanted no official payment, and the only thing offered to her at any point was a tip (which is conditional on how much you like the product), then she would not have got the $300.
Hires a *NON* professional
“yOuR wOrK wAs nOt VeRy pRofEsSiOnAl”
Whenever a non-professional photographer says that... I question their knowledge and point out that they are not knowledgeable enough to judge me. End of story. I prefer to be nice but there are occasions where I am as nice as the other person lets me be. I take no prisoners.
I’m Greek to
EXACTLY!!!!!
The Bride sounds like the kind of person who frequently says "I want to speak to the Manager !!"
Yep basically the brightest red flag to spot a full blown narcissist. The whole story is so textbook 📚
OMG I LOVE THIS COMMENT SO MUCH cause I work at McDonald's & know those customers so I know how much weight it holds 😂
😂😂😂
Yep. A typical Karen narcissist move. She probably never planned on paying you.
Karen
$300 for wedding photos 😭 I’m planning mine for next year and I can’t find anyone cheaper than $3,000 😭😭😭
It's weird right? The only inquiries I've gotten for weddings were where people would even think $600 is too much yet when you look for a photographer, they're expensive.
@@shadowyzman7078 my school hired a photographer for $2000.. and the pictures were, LITRALLY horrible
The angles weren't straight, nothing was centered very over exposed and the editing, God the editing.. my man went crazy with the blur brush..
@@Ruzovy_ damn...I keep hearing such horror stories. The clients that I've had reach out to me have always complained that $600 is a bit too much for one event.
I paid $1300 for my wedding photos and they turned out great. 300 is still pennies in comparison
@@shadowyzman7078 $600 is so good for photography.. if they say that price is too much tell them to just do it them selves lol...
Like if you want something to remember a special day like a wedding you would want some good ads photos
So when she asked for an estimate, she expected you to say, “No, it’s okay. It’s free.” So frustrating.
Oh I hadn't even thought of that.
Oh true, I didn't even think about it
My guess is that she was expect >$100 and/or when she asked her husband about it her husband had assumed it would be free all along, and started pointing out problems with the photos.
I am a graphic designer and photographer. I have had 34 small claims cases over 33 years. I won 33. Not because I am so brilliant but because I prepare. I get deposits, estimates signed and agreements made via email. Then I keep all communications back and forth and watermark all proofs to the client. Then I prepare a brief for the judge so he/she can follow easily. In court, I keep it simple, to the point and emotionless. The judge doesn't care how I feel. Even with high priced lawyers on the other team, they have had a very hard time defending. Remember, a lawyer has a thousand cases. You have one. Study yours. Make it solid. Then go to court and get your money. Feels great and on occasion you can get triple damages if you can show the other party had no intention of payment.
It makes me sad that we ( I am also a graphic designer) have to go through all this trouble to get paid.
This is why I gave up working with individual people and only freelance with companies. At least companies have a reputation to uphold. Pathetic that people can't pay so little for something they're gonna use over and over again, smh.
this is so off topic but what zodiac sign are u
@@agustinamartinez7560 this is such a me thing to ask looooool
I'm going to write these words on the wall as a future reminder on how to get it going. Thank you for sharing your wisdom kind sir!
That lady and her husband were such cheapskates!
I'm Syrian and trust me many Arabs are cheeeeeap as allll HELL. LOL..
It wasn't an Arab person and no Zekidance not all are also im Syrian as well
Oh I see. And I said "many"
Oh my apologies i haven't read it well then sorry about that
100% agree !
The MOMENT someone you know in your personal life uses the phrase ‘but you’re so artistic!!!’ while asking you to do something art-related, it translates to ‘you do this for fun and I’m so kind for thinking of how much fun you’ll have doing this for me for free.’
Don’t trust it. Get a deposit and a contract signed for EVERY commission you do. Doesn’t matter if it’s your auntie, and you’re doing it cheaper than usual, make them sign.
Ouch, the truth hurts 😭
YUP. Makes it all the better when a talented friend/relative legit GIFTS their work. My parents' friend gave them homemade crafted and painted pottery set for their wedding and they still keep it in a nice cabinet. They have since paid her for other work, but that original set was an unprompted gift of her talents.
I love she included: "I will no longer need your services."
Girl, she already gave you a service.
Even if she didn't wish to purchase further photos, she still would have been charged for basic expenses.
RIGHT. She says this after she is DONE providing all of those FREE SERVICES!!!
As a freelance makeup artist i can say- brides are the worst. Thanks for reminding me that i need to be diligent with contracts
People try to say that it's okay for her to be rude to everyone around her because she's nervous.... I am a very nervous person and I am not rude often. No excuse for acting like that to people who don't have to be there.
lucy lu Exactly.
Exactly. My mom owns a wedding venue, and I've always admired ver for being so, SO nice and patient to those brides that want nothing but sink her. They're always looking for something wrong, and won't notice the little details. Because of this, if I ever get married, I'll be the nicest bride there's ever been.
Meldoesmakeup you are all brides??
@@pleaseenteryournamehere9593 not everyone gets married and not everyone gets married with a venue. My wedding was in the court house and my reception was a small party at my house. I did everything but take the photos myself and I didn't even have a photographer on site. We had a photographer take photos in like a sears photo center kind of place and then at the place we met. (I love everything 80's and what is more 80's then a sears photo center.)
I AM FURIOUS FOR YOU! 😡
10 years later...
i love ur videos!
omg i love you
?
Yay! Holly!
they should be on that show on TLC! Couple using people to save some coin
That judge was absolutely horrible. He should have made them pay at least the 300 for what they STOLE from her
Honestly wasn't surprised when she said all she had was a verbal contract.
@@Sisabella666 But she would've had the email from the girl asking for a $ estimate. I'm confused.
@@serenacelestine it all needs to be in writing though. That's just how court is.
@@Sisabella666 verbal contract is valid, I don't think that's the reason, there might be other things that make it fail, I think it's the fact that she agreed to "just a tip"?
I'm not saying she's lying but sometimes it's better if we see story from both side before judging so we can know each's defenses and arguments
A verbal contract is valid as long as you can prove it ,but the email asking for an estimate should have somehow proved that
Honestly it sounds like she was ok with everything then told her husband she needed $300 to pay you, then he got mad and she decided to blame you instead of working it out with her husband
Maybe, but the friend should have found a way to get the $300 to pay. It isn't a lot of money honestly. Is she that dependent on her husband that she doesn't have $300 of her own money?
Oh so she wanted to use all her husbands money lol that’s sad specially if he’s already broke and can’t pay $300.
@@blacklight310 u should plan that before u hire someone thi
@@blacklight310 How do you know that he's broke? And you know it's his wedding too and he probably wants the photos too he just doesn't want to pay for it
Yepppp
You won because everytime she'll look at her wedding pictures she'll think about you
Naashira A+ response 👏
No she won't. I can guarantee you that she won't.
Assholes like her won’t learn a lesson
Serah Olivia you cant guarantee anything unless you ARE her lol. Come on girl.
Guus if interested in traveling visit our travel Channel and subscribe. Thank you💚
Never trust anyone when they say " Just a Tip" lol
I'm dying! 😂😂😂
Hahhahhahahaaah
hahahaha truuuuu
Or “just the tip”
Facts
That wasn’t even payment, like 300, it’s basically just you being compensated. Like even when I do things for “free”, they always compensate, transport, any products I have to buy for the shoot etc etc
I cant believe the judge ruled against you. If you had receipts for the gas costs and camera rental costs I hope they were submitted because its ludicrous that they didnt even compensate you for those costs.
"We understand that you feel this pictures are your property"
That's also how the courts feel dingus. The photos are the photographers property unless they sign them over to you.
I know, and so condescending
*You legally own the photos, even if no contract was signed. For a small 300$, she wants to jeopardize her relationship with you and your family. It's easy to include 300$ in a wedding budget. She is just trying to take advantage of you. She's a bad person and so is her family. At least this video talking about it got you the 300$ and much more, just by the youtube ads!* 😎 👍
You do legally own the photos.
But if the subject matter is private you need written consent if you wish to use those subjects in marketing material
deep mystic Well I'm in Canada and if you take the photos, than they belong to you by default. By law you can use them for Marketing if you choose to. No contract needed. I suggest you check your law on the subject in America, because I'm pretty sure it's the same.
@@thehenryrobot I am from the U.K and am sure Canada is written under common law jurisdiction
In the U.K you own the photos.
But you can't use photos of other people without written consent
Its that simple
Its against the law and if a photographer used a photo of me in their promotional campaigns I would sue for compensation
You need to have your clients sign a agreement to state they are happy.
If the photo is of nature of course you do not need consent because there is no one to consent to it
deep mystic in America if you take the photo and it does not portray the subject in a negative manner or contain children in the images, you can use them any way you’d like.
Deep mystic is right for the UK at least. If it's a private event or on private land or the subject is a person, you must have consent. you still own the photo, but use of it is limited to personal. It's to do with a law that means you can only use photos that you could take from a public place, or a space you own and without using someone (as a subject) without consent.
Most people don't value the work of creatives, especially freelance creatives. She sounds like a crappy person.
Come to Nepal you will see worst case scenario
🤕
she sounds like the type of person that would ask her artistic friend for a free drawing, and then get upset because she expected it for free.
They just want to squeeze every ounce out of photographers
A lot of people take advantage of creative people because of how humble they can be. Know your worth ppl.
When you said $300 I almost passed out. That’s so cheap and she couldn’t pay you that?! Smh
To make up for your wasted time and money I’m letting the ad play all the way through without skipping
Right!!
You got 1.1M subscribers, I think you won.
lorin a in this case it was
@@lorinna2198 i was also kinda a joke..cuz like with how much she earns with the subs..
$$$$$$$$. Unless she's not monetized, I think she ended up with a lot more money. But, yea, she was being taken advantage of and she was right to fight it.
@@House2017
The youtuber's story was 10 years ago. Even before monetizing in youtube
AND now she's a professional photographer.
next 3-photographer photo challenge: everyone has to use a point & shoot camera from 2009
I use a camera from 2007... 😂
BTW it's a fujifilm S5 Pro. It's not killing anymore nowadays but it still does its job. But I should say about my lens. It's a Nikkor 17-55 f/2.8, but cause camera is crop the lens comes like 26-83. I'm full of happiness about that.
Ilya I was thinking more about the point & shoot cameras from back then, where 4MP was considered good, and your controls pretty much just consisted of shutter, zoom, and flash on/off. That is what would really make for an interesting challenge. My daily walkaround camera is my 2006-built Canon 5D, and despite it being old, it's fantastic. I can definitely appreciate your feelings for your camera.
Matt Hooker uhh, now i see what you had meant. Little missunderstanding cause i'm little bit young :P
I still use a point and shoot from 2014, its amazing!
If you're good at something, never do it for free. Even if you know the client.
Omg this is so triggering for me. I've had verrrry similar experiences that it made me stop wedding photography altogether. About 10yrs ago, (I had already completed my photography/arts degree, and worked professionally for different studios and occasionally would freelance) one of my best friends was a bridesmaid for a friend of hers, who I also kind of knew through her. This bride and I had worked together a few times as she was a make-up artist, so she knew my work and style already.
She reached out to me and asked me to shoot her wedding but she was on a tight budget. I gave her "mates rates" (I think I charged about $1200, but was giving her a full package with prints and album included)..
She lived in a different city from me so I had to travel 4 hours the night before, it was midnight by the time I got there, and suddenly came down with a case of food poisoning. I was up all night throwing up, I didn't know if I would be OK to work the next day. Somehow after barely any sleep I managed to get myself together.
The day of the wedding the bride was a total bridezilla. She was running around angry, screaming at everyone including me and the bridesmaids.. the whole day her face had the worst, angriest expression. It was so difficult to get any shots of her looking normal - not even happy. I had to wrangle and herd all her family and friends for photos, since she didn't tell me who was important and who wasn't so I photographed EVERYONE and everything.
A few days after the wedding she was demanding the photos from me, though I had told her the general turnaround time was 6-8weeks, I decided to be nice and would prioritize her to the top of my list to try get them done in a week or two since she was wanting them before Christmas. I sent her a few to keep her happy so she could use as gifts for her family and then eventually had the album done and all photos on a disk sent to her. Bare in mind I had an actual full time job and was working hours into the night every night to get this done for her.
After she recieved everything she and her husband said they hate the photos, hate my style and demanded a refund (lucky I had gotten her to pay upfront). They said my work was "amature" and didn't think I was worth paying anything. I even did an email similar to yours breaking down the cost of hours spent shooting and editing so they could understand.
They began harassing me daily with phone calls and emails threatening legal action if I didn't refund them the money, so I called their bluff and said go ahead. Lol they didn't go through with it,I think cause they knew they didn't have an actual case. Apparently they tried to do the same thing on their honeymoon and demanded a refund from their resort 🤣 lol some people will try get away with scamming anyone. Anyway that's why I stick to shooting travel and fashion. No more weddings or family photography.. 🤪
@Maggie W thanks so much girl 💕 really appreciate your kind words
Weddings are okay. Family photography is okay too. But photography for YOUR family or YOUR friends is a different story. I really hate that because you are related or you are their friend they don't see you as a business owner. They see you as someone who will provide a free service just because they have a relationship with you.
Why are some people just so nasty?? They sure are a match made in heaven.
300 bucks wouldn’t even be enough for the invitations alone. Contracts contracts contracts. Anyone watching learn from this. Get it in writing.
You actually owned the photos since you don't have any contracts signed. You took the photos, so it's yours.
Nope, you have to get contract stating you are infact allowed to use them not the other way around.
@@fluffer7832 Hmmm....maybe it's different in every country. 'Cause I know a photographer here in our country and as long as he takes the photos even without a contract, it's his. They sometimes even used the photos for competition or portfolios. I don't know any specific law about photos though as long as it doesn't affect any privacy? Like when they're in a public setting or something.
@@meaniesing well all i have heard on this topic is that you can't publish photos of other people without their consent (verbal contract works aswell since noone is pressing charges or anything) havent had any contact with it so i only take it at face value. I do give discounts if i can put it in my portfolio tho
Melinda photographers have to get the persons permission first before posting any photos online when I had my photos done I had to give permission for the photographer to post them online otherwise I could have sued her if she done it without my consent
You have to get permission, otherwise it's an invasion of privacy.
I asked my boyfriend how much he’d expect to pay for all of that and he said $5000.
When a friend or family refers to you as artistic, they mean a free worker. I done learned that as well.
Classic
Your "friend" straight up took advantage of a young nieve girl. Shame on her. Period.
I hope her "friend" sees this video and reads all the comments. Only upside is that Jessica has one less toxic person in her life.
Periodt
Naive
@@lanalyamin1199 One less toxic family. Her parents were also friends before this happened. If I were the bride's mom I would have apologized to Jessica and paid her immediately.
It wouldn't be any better If it happened to a thirty year old starting photographer.
Family and friends are the WORST to do business with. I ALWAYS have a contract! Even on a napkin at a restaurant (actually did that), but it MUST be written because a written word is a document.
I made a family member sign a contract with me and he hates me for that for 25 years now. Always brings it up, told everyone I made him sign a contract. Ugly. But I had a contract and he paid! Logic must be placed before emotions.
I took a client to court once. He didn't show up. His father paid the full awarded amount. It was stressful.
Ron Spi happened to me too. We are cool but he "felt some type of way" about it. I told him I follow procedures I have in place for everyone I shoot with. It creates clarity about what you expect and what I'm providing. But people have their own emotions and expectations. To them, its like..I don't trust them and asking them to sign something (which he never did) is an insult.
My advice is NEVER disagree by text. I had a half hour convo and we settled everything. text would have taken hours and had even more hard feelings
That family member sounds like someone you're better off without. I bet he wouldn't have paid if you didn't have the contract. Let him hate as long he can't take advantage of you.
Wow o.o If a family member of mine made me sign a contract for their work, I would gladly sign it if I think it's a good deal. I don't think it's that big of a deal.
Ron Spi m
Ron Spi p
the fact that you sued her is such a POWER move. support our girls who make power moves
the bright side of the story is that you learned your lesson before even starting to purse photography as a career! it was meant to be.
The bride's email sounded like everything was premeditated from the beginning, IMO
You got that right, maybe it was a premeditated thing!
True. After reading that email i realised she is well prepared for it.
Ahn Nhi Yeah probably it was
That’s so sad
She made sure to never mention pay or anything in writing, even though everything else was done over email. Definitely premeditated.
Yes sounded like she was trying her best for her to not be able to sue her. Like she tried to hit all the points and triple checked before sending it. Still sounded stupid though.
"money isn't important to me"
*doesn't pay $300
"we didn't agree to pay you for your services"
*asks for estimate of your services
Right? Lol its so frustrating jt makes me wanna clean the wood floors with her thick face
@@oojj513 😅😭🤣
I just discovered you took Felix and Marzia’s wedding pictures and they are phenomenal 👏😍
WHAT-?!
The weird thing is you had a written agreement. When she wrote you for the estimate, that is a written agreement for payment. She could've fought the amount but she did agree on a payment.
You were robbed.
she asked for the estimate over the phone, so it wasn't a written agreement.
@@gvg2502 She read it out in the text message. A text message is the same thing as writing. It is literal evidence.
@@Metonymy1979 The email she got back "after the estimate" keeps referring to how bad things have gotten and wanting it to end....there is definitely missing details to this story.
@@Metonymy1979 Wouldnt have changed a thing, as far as the story goes she made it clear she wanted no actual pay from the start. Asking for an estimate wouldn't actually change this. The only thing offered was a tip, which is conditional not guaranteed.
I've recently had to learn my lesson twice with family. two separate cousins had me take photos of there family and guess how much they paid me? $00.00 even though we agreed to an an amount and one of them had the nerve to say "oh we took you out to eat after didn't we?" I've never been so disappointed but I learned my lesson. Also recently had a friend ask for photos and since she's a good friend I dropped my rate of $200 to $75!!!! and she just responded "oh okay" and never contacted me again. I don't have words to describe how disappointing this behavior is especially when it comes from friends and family.
Damn, I'm sorry to hear that. It's really hard doing business with friends and family. They always expect you to do things for free. Like, "I have bills to pay, fam..." then they get mad at you for not doing it for free.
FlybyFrancis yea exactly!, I don’t think it ever gets easier lol
Your friend asked you for photos and you charged her for it?!
Roxy do you even know what friendship means?
I have never charged my friends for helping them (pictures, moving out, moving in, crocheting blankets).
I feel sorry for you
Tatiana Andreevna lol ok Tatiana
True friends support their friends buisnesses. The ones that invest in you show they are going to be there for the long run. Those who take and take will never stop and the day you speak up they will feel intitled cause you chose to let them take from you for so long.
Its a case by case thing though cause if a friend was really in need i would offer a free service. I dont even own a buisness btw but have friends who do and would never dream of selling them short thats something you would do to an enemy not your closest friends or family.
If Jessica was able to photograph MY wedding, or event, I'd literally give her every. Cent. I. Had.
cool _beenz cent*
But agreed!
I just bought a Jessica suit. You‘re doomed.
*cent
I would agree but I probably own like 3 cents haha
Then you'd be sued for not paying the rest of your wedding bill 😲
that's insane.. my photographer was 3500 and videographer was 4500.. she was petty af. You were sweet to help her, shame on her.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. This is a perfect example of someone trying to take advantage of an art student because they think they'll get discounted rates, or free service, with the same quality of work.
I had a client like that once, a Lawyer who hired me for his brother's wedding. It was a 3 day shoot. Me and my team of 6 spent 30+ hours shooting photos and videos and after that another 5 hours each processing what we had shot. I delivered in a pend drive as I usually do and 3 high quality pasting albums. The client himself was involved during the video editing and we edited as he said against our good judgement as the customer is always right and it was his wedding after all. We had taken a 2000$ deposit(half of what we had charged) as advance and after the delivery he refused to pay up saying the trailer of the video is not good. We were awestruck. After a few days talking to each other on the phone we decided to take it to court and sent him a formal letter through an attorney and this worked like a charm as we had a contract, cctv footage of him at our office with the editing team. He paid us 300$ more for the hassle we went through and finally said that he actually thought he could get away with it as he was a lawyer and we would be somehow afraid of that. People sometimes can be stupid,cruel and hungry for any opportunity to make an extra dime at any cost.
That's basically how Trump did business. He stiffed his contractors, then offered pennies on the dollar when threatened. Then bullied said contractors against filing a lawsuit claiming he had a huge legal team that would drag it through the courts for years (probably true).
Guessing your client was a avid reader of his books.
Idk how someone can have the conscience to do something like that 😕
@@mrobinson8686 The sad truth is, people do. Sometimes some people with a bit of influence or people who are working in the law and order department develope a delusional idea that they are above the law or people would simply be afraid of them because of their position.
@@nasidctg Fun fact: I work at a bookstore and our two main groups of "book thiefs" are law students and young teachers.
Also don't ever try to find a book you need in a university library's law section. Books get taken out of the shelf and put in really distant places (like 2 FLOORS down from where they should be). I know not all of them are like this, but I've heard so many times that lots of law students are extreme backstabbers...
@@miristtotallw People who are supposed to be the protectors and upholders of law and justice are mostly the ones taking advantage of it 😟
It's sad how times have changed for the worse.
I paid $3,500 for my engagement and wedding photos. I hated my engagement photos so much i looked through them once and never looked at them again. I had to redo all my hair and makeup to get it redone and pay another photographer to redo it. I never made a fuss about it, I understand that the weather didn't cooperate, or that it just wasn't her best day. I still paid, get over it. That's life sometimes.
Wow that’s a lot.. you should have asked to maybe redo a few shots as you do all your makeup and had the outfit I’m positive ... sorry you went through that!
But you are a reasonable person. The woman was clearly not and many people arent and will fight over the smallest stupidest uncontrollable things because they feel entitled and egoistic.
Wow that's expensive! That's what my car costs lmao. You should've asked her to retake the photos, since you paid $3500!!
That’s a crazy amount. For 3500 it should have been filled with stunning photos. I charge friends like 600 for weddings (and they still complain). For others I charge around 1200 and bring two paid assistants. I walk away with like 600 for a weeks worth of work.
I had my best friend photograph my events (she’s pro) and made sure we signed a contract first. I value my relationship with her too much. People are shitty.
I comissioned art with a friend and I just didn't pay the full price beforehand because she didn't let me! If someone does that [scamming thing] to you you literally cannot convince me they ever considered you anything close to a friend. There's just no way
I'm sooo pissed omfg how could she win she literally got everything for what she did she lowkey deserves to get exposed
Sell her photos as stock photos, imho. Let everyone buy them, she has to pay to use them, and you get paid!
Hey! I think that's a great idea 🤔
BILL_E_MAYS_HERE
She cannot legally do anything with the images outside of her own self promotion without a photo release.
Only photos without people in them
Yes, anything with people in it has to have a release, but she can use the other photos of scenery, setup, etc as part of her professional portfolio or sell them.
@@tamarasmith9060
A release is not required to profit from a photo of someone if it's considered newsworthy.
Yup..reason I Hated doing weddings. I was a three time Emmy Winner.. 20 yrs experience. I insisted on contracts.. clear cut..standard professional contracts,
. Had one bride get Bridezilla on me. Her mother was a friend of my wife’s so I did it..charged a bare minimum ... edited the video..took it to her mum’s.. she asked to see it since she was paying.. 300.00. I normally charged 1500.00 to 3000.00 average. The Bride called her mum and me. Said she would pay nothing. I took her to court.. the mother finally told her to pay..that she would not lie in court. She published in her local paper a nasty letter..so I pushed the civil suit really high. Had my attorney question her mother who totally backed me. The judge ordered the video be played in open court. Now..by this point the local media even covered it..I was quite well known from my work at the White House, Emmy awards etc. the judge blew up..ruled instantly... said he was giving me the full amount and actionable charges for her taking my time by going to court..I had first wanted arbitration. She wanted open court. She paid my court fees.. I had added in slander charge too..he ruled 5,000 extra for that.. I got 7,000.00 out of this... the end. But honestly I didn’t do anymore weddings for pay. Did my usual documentaries for much more money. Good luck..honestly it sounds like the Judge knew the family...Local girl. Sorry
People don't understand that contracts protect EVERYONE!
That's horrible! But I'm glad she paid. Sometimes we think we can trust people that are referred to us but they usually are the ones that disappoint because they're entitled :(
I think sometimes some Judges just lack the expertise in certain areas. For instance, maybe the judge in Jessica's story didn't know how to value and place a fair price tag on the whole wedding memories production. I don't even think that other guy was actually hired for new pictures, maybe he was just playing along for her and she would buy him dinner later in exchange for standing as an alleged hired photographer or something and the judge just bought her version of the story.
Jim Waters wow, same here I hate doing weddings. For some reason the bride always has some unrealistic expectations and thinks they are going to look like the cover of Vogue lol. One question, did they want your video and not pay you for it? Or they didn’t want the video and not pay for it?
Al Nor Video? You mean video from the second photographer?
“I’m 19 years old I was watching Winnie the Pooh “ dead 😂
This kind of reminds me of the time I was repeatedly asked to redesign a website for a friend's church. Like your former friend, I was asked, declined, and asked again. Eventually I spent about a week on the site (this was 2004 and it was a pretty basic site) and they decided they were happy with it, but then refused to pay my already heavily discounted rate. After several emails in which they insisted I donate the work, I gave up and deleted everything. They ended up getting a member's kid to do a new site, and the results were less than stellar.
Ugh this is why you generally should avoid doing favors for family/friends in whatever creative arena you're in. I've found most people just don't understand the value of your talent/skill and it can certainly end in a situation like this one. Appreciate you sharing your story and I'm sorry someone you considered a friend did that to you. When people ask me to sew/make things I usually say no and explain that I just don't have the time.
amen
I sew too! And everyone thinks I’m their personal seamstress. I’m self taught but that’s not saying much. The few times I have sewn something for someone and put a lot of work and time into it, they didn’t even wear it or use it! They wasted my time and now to every single person who asked me to make them something I flat out tell them no, I sew for myself and that’s it. 🤷🏻♀️
@@MermaidInTheWater same lol
"This is like your hobby right? You do it for fun." Every. Single. Time.
At least they paid something, right?
"Every man should lose a battle in his youth, so he does not lose a war when he is old." --George R. R. Martin
الحمدلله
I love this! quoted!
But a war has two sides, so I’m assuming you just want all old people to win wars against young guys.
She so salty. Makes me angry, she can have a wedding but can’t pay you $300. SMFH
Ten years later, you still have the emails. I love it 😂😂😂😂
In my experience, family and “friends” are usually the ones that take the most advantage when they find out someone they know have these talents. I can honestly say that the only people that have tried to get free pictures or special treatment have been people I know well or people my parents know. Don’t even get me started 😩
Before the video started I was like okay I BET that the person who treated her that way was someone from her family/friends
alejandra castillo right?? i got my beauty license & next thing i knew i was giving all my cousins free hair cuts in the living room
ABSOLUTELY!!! Or be the ones who are the most picky about their photos 🙄 I understand it’s their wedding but when they literally give you no direction especially when editing it’s like 😩😩😩
If this lady reads the comments on this video, that'll be worth the $300 lmfao, I'd share it to her...
yeeeesssssssssssss
Joke's on her you probably made much more from this video than what she owed you. In a way, she did pay.
There's no ads in this video tho
"almost 10 years ago" wait, I thought that you were 20-
She must be 29, she said she was 19 at the time of this experience and , if 10 years ago, she must be 29.
I thought she was around 30
Question: how did your family deal with her? I mean seriously, my mum would be crazy angry.
Yeah, this is what I wanted to know! What did your mom think about her friend taking advantage of her daughter?
I want to know this too. AND if she knows how big the bridge was that she burned by doing this...as I would be bummed to have lost you as a future photographer!
No one cares about your unsubscribing get a life troll
The guy has a point though, not hating, but it sounds a bit unrealistic.
ArmedDreams the woman probably wanted to have her do it because Jessica wasn’t a professional photographer so she thought she’d be able to pay her bare minimum
Post the pictures. Post the pictures. Post the pictures. Post the pictures. Post the pictures.
Yes! Post them - except photoshop pig-heads onto all of them.
Posting pictures without blurred faces would be illegal
@@shambolicrhetoric6143 Yessss! This
Cite the law, please. I assume you're an attorney?@@YandereLife
If she posted them she would have a chance to get sued herself bc the client did not sign a release form so yeah
I was literally shocked to hear that he ruled against you... I was not expecting that!
She still made clear in the email of her intention to pay you.
I'm so confused
Omg! That was your first paid photography experience and you already went in and sued her? That is so brave, congratulations! I had a couple REALLY REALLY BAD jobs that exploited me to the point of complete stress breakdown. But it took me FOREVER to sue them. I kept thinking about suing them for TWO YEARS after I left the job (which is the maximum time you can sue after you left a job in my country). I finally did it. But seeing you sue right after your very first paid gig.. So inspiring and brave!
No its stupid
Should not be burning bridges
My first 3 freelance jobs in my own business I walked with nothing
This has opened up a gateway for me and I live freely
She doesn’t seem to be missing any bridges.
@@fernandocysneiros3743 God stop misdirecting the poor girl
Firstly
She did not make any agreements on payments
Secondly you have been hit by a bridge if you can't see she is at fault.
Great way to start a business
Try and sue and then loose
Your crazy
@@laisaruiz There is a reason some people are more successful than others
First is Grit
Second is communication
Nothing about this was a contract, she agreed to a tip, it was her own bad communication that caused the problem
She should have been clear about the pay and wrote up an invoice
Its that simple
Customers are not mind readers
deep mystic but it wasn’t a customer. it was “a family friend” who cleverly tricked her to do her bridal shower. people are so cheap and tasteless. it’s your wedding for Gods sake
My father is a professional photographer and has been so for 25 years. He shoots weddings often and gets paid at least 1200 per wedding, not including invitations, engagement pictures, editing, etc. Me and him watched this together and we are very upset. However, I plan to be a photographer and this will definitely be helpful in the future.
always have a signed written contract that is very specific. even if for friends and family. be very clear on what each charge includes and any extra agreements. make sure you cover yourself to avoid this girls situation.
@@de5072 where I live, you usually pay first or at least a down payment, i had no idea people had to film first and then get paid, seems like such a risk
1/3 when the contract is signed. 1/3 a month before the wedding. 1/3 BEFORE any wedding photos are shot.
Something similar happened to me. After “loving the pictures” in messages, client started acting weird when the time to pay has come: schedule to meet to pay and never showed up, rescheduled, do not answer her phone etc. After 2 hours of waiting at her building’s lobby and texting that I’m not gonna leave, she did pay me, and right away texted (she couldn’t even tell me in person) how terrible my photos were and that I shouldn’t work as a photographer, because I’m very bad in it. B*ch
Wow I know I’m late but feel that girl was clearly trying to get away with not having to pay a professional photographer at her wedding. That is really crafty of her so glad you did learn from that !
The person who disliked the video was the lady in the story.
And her family members
And her friends
If she has any friends
Grace Stafford lol 😂, I knew someone was gonna comment that
most likely
"I'm a 19yo, i been watching winnie the pooh" this cracked me up lol
Winnie the pooh has no age limit. I'mma be an adult and still watch that
Getting full wedding package for free: 300$ saved!!
Value of a friendship for lifetime: Priceless!!
She definitely lost much more than she ever could have won with those bucks. And you eventually won. Not the money you deserved, but life experience, because you learnt an important lesson (sadly the hard way) and you got rid of a person pretending being your friend, but actually just abusing your valuable friendship.
I just felt a spike in my blood pressure when you said you lost the case.
HOW DID SHE WIN!!! $1,500 is still cheap for wedding photos AND video!
always have a written contract.
my sister was sad because of 250 € , where I paid 1/5 . I did know the photographer, thats why. I just looked at my sister like: what ?!
And invitations
AJ Now: ACT 3 Probably because she initially insisted she'd do it for free.
AJ Now: ACT 3 people win because the law upholds facts and contracts not emotions.
Damn these people are cheapskate, $300 for a whole wedding package is crazy.... U can literally earn more in McDonald's...
I can’t believe she was willing to pay $400 to a professional photographer, supposedly, but she was unwilling to pay you $300 for all the hard work that you did
This is why I don’t do work for friends/family. I’ve had so many bad experiences that I refuse to do any “favors”.
At that point, maybe it's time to realise there a common link . . . . .
HOLY HELLLLLL that email that she wrote back is so disgusting.. people suck. Sorry this happened to you!
Ok I had to stop at 20:00 just to comment, she won ? No no no, YOU HAVE WON, cause look at you now. People like her get no where in life, and people like you ? .... well, look at you. 💃🏻
Well said 💪
This is the best comment ever.
Joffrey Bieber its not a fantasy world. the success jessica has now makes up for not being paid. obviously she should have been paid and that doesnt happen everytime, but in the end jessica is the real winner.
Da Huumain sorry :( Stay away from comments until the end of the video from now on.
facts
I'm livid. I would love for you to drop names. Let other businesses know not to work with that Karen.
people are disgusting. and they even dare to call themselves “friends” . livid
This just pisses me off!
When I was in college I was working on being a professional makeup artist. A friend of mine asked me to do her wedding makeup and I offered to do HER makeup for a tip since it was her wedding and I wanted to do it as a gift. I ended up getting suckered into doing her makeup and all 5 bridesmaids AND did upkeep on their makeup throughout the night! I also let myself be manipulated into setting up her damn reception and venue despite none of the bridal party helping out. I had felt bad for the mom who got left to do it all while the others were drinking.
I also got myself sexually harassed while I was there too.
After the wedding, my friend handed me $70 and told me I should be thankful I even got that because they weren’t going to be able to pay me at all if they hadn’t played this money game at the reception. That didn’t even cover all the makeup I purchased, much less my time, gas, and help I gave to them. I was also too non confrontational, so I did absolutely nothing.
I had to step away from makeup for a couple years after that experience. I never want to be manipulated again and I don’t let myself now. It’s truly amazing how many “friends” try to get me to do makeup for events for free or super cheap. It’s really disgusting and makes me not enjoy the work anymore unfortunately.
It feels terrible when someone manipulates you. It feels even worse when someone manipulates you and tells you, " You should be grateful".
I hope you pick up your craft again and get a contract.
That's such bullshit. I'm actually so angry for you. I hope karma got her good cause that's a disgusting way to treat anyone, especially a so called 'friend'
That is infuriating. Please tell me you cut off contact after that.
Don't stop doing things that you love and where you are passionate about 💕 it's sad, don't let anything like this destroy your passion.
Some people will admire your work and will give you what you deserve, those friends aren't friends since I don't think a good friend would ever do this. Keep up the work and live your life ❤️
It makes me so sad that people are like this, especially "friends". I'm sorry, but a true friend would support the other friend's craft and career rather than mooch and see what they can get out of it. My cousin owns a grill and deli joint and I worked there as my first job and I constantly had friends and other family member ask if I could get them free food. How is he supposed to make his money to keep his business going if people are always expecting handouts. He would always give free drinks to family members and I think they should be grateful for that. And as a cosmetologist myself, I'd always get roped into doing hair for free, and on my day off nonetheless! I would be happy to give a small family discount, but to pay for the hair products and then do hours of work for free? Pfft.
I THOUGHT THAT YOU WERE GOING TO WIN. Guess who’s livid now.
I don’t understand why she asked you for a freaking estimate then if she refused to pay you only $300! This story is insane
I'm already 2 minutes and 15 seconds in, and I can already tell what happened. Homegirl tried to be cheap and hire you, knowing you weren't a professional at the time, and thought it would be easy to not pay you. Also, even if you were a professional at the time, she still would have tried to not pay you because you two are family friends. A person can be the third cousin twice removed of a well known professional dj, and still not try to pay them. People like that have no respect.
I can’t believe you lost! You had so much proof, contract or not.
Lauren she did and the women was making her look better like isn’t that going to make her lose
She did refuse payment at first. That most likely screwed her over.
Judge most likely used her initial refusal for payment in his ruling.
i think it's the fact that she was getting paid 0 + tip that screwed her over
Really? You can’t believe she lost? I mean I see exactly why she lost. Not that it was right but I mean a lot of it was not asked of her. If someone asked me to do pictures and I said no at first it would literally just be photos nothing extra
Lol, you keep saying "I don't know why I did that" simple, your nice !. Nice people always get stuck in those situations, me included..lbvs
Yeah, nice people always get treated poorly:(
I could feel my blood pressure rising from the first line of her email. Nasty, manipulative person. I'm so sorry you didn't win the case, you definitely should have. She lost a wonderful, generous friend and will live her whole life in that miserable mindset. At least you have integrity and can raise your head high.
"Verbal contract is just as valid as a written contract" 😂. What were they thinking.
It usually is... Idk how but it is what everyone says
A verbal contract is just as binding as a written contract. The problem is that it is harder to prove, and it becomes a 'he said she said' when it goes to court. About the only way to prove that those words were said would be to make an audio recording of the conversation, and for that much effort you might as well get the agreement in writing.
@@keithtextor4892 not to mention you can't prove whether or not the person was "joking".
@@yarbgreat1 Balance of probability, it is generally very obvious to rule on that defence if someone admits to saying it but claims "joke".
@@wyterabitt2149 well, which would you rather have, a verbal agreement or a written contract? If you say the latter, then I think my points made.
she actually says "things have gotten out of hand." okay, what???
This is horrible! I learned it the hard way. When I was still in university a "friend" asked me to mix her video entry for a national competition. I told her that if she wins if I can get compensated $200 for mixing, recording, and composing music for her entry (if she doesn't win- it's fine i'm nice lol). Guess what! she won around $3500-$4000 and never talked to me when I asked her. I sought a lawyer and since the receipts when in Facebook/e-mail, he advised that I push this through in student court(since we're both still studying). Unfortunately I had to withdraw because I was in the middle of doing my thesis.
The good thing now is I'm working with the best clients and I heard her career didn't boom and she hasn't finished her degree.
Proof of bad karma.
Karma
Even among peers people take advantage of one another. The little bit of power a person has they will abuse it! People abuse family power so much!
Jessica: so.. this happened about 10 years ago..
Me: oh okay so you were 10 years old got it