Renowned Marxist Economist Prabhat Patnaik: Capitalism Cannot Exist without Imperialism
Vložit
- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
- What is imperialism? Is it a stage of capitalism, as Lenin described it, or was it always essential to capitalism? Can capitalism exist without imperialism?
Prahbat Patnaik, professor emeritus at JNU, joins Rania Khalek on her program Dispatches to discuss the argument he lays out in his book A Theory of Imperialism, which argues that capitalism was always a function of imperialism. But today’s imperialism takes a subtler less visible form than during colonialism , keeping large parts of the world in poverty through mechanisms like income deflation so that the wealthy nations can maintain access to the cheap commodities only tropical regions can produce. Imperialism also requires an army of unemployed people in the third world that are even more essential to capitalism than the army of reserve labor in the global north.
Patnaik also addresses the democratic socialist ideal of turning America into Denmark but that too cannot happen without imperialism. The Scandinavian countries, he says, need imperialism to thrive because they are not self-sufficient and owe their prosperity to the imperialist system created and maintained by western colonialist powers.
Also, is China imperialist? How do sanctions and war fit into this? Is this system planned or is it spontaneous and on autopilot? Are we forever doomed to this system? How do we resist?
Timestamps:
0:50 What is imperialism?
28:06 Can we be like Denmark without imperialism?
31:39 India, neoliberalism, Modi, rising fascism and the farmers strike
48:07 Is China imperialist?
51:04 Sanctions and regime change wars
1:01:44 Class politics vs identity politics
1:19:23 Not all third world nationalism is bad
1:23:43 Capitalism is the biggest ally of covid’s killing spree
» Become a patron: / breakthroughnews
--------------------------------
» Like us on Facebook: / btnewsroom
» Tweet us on Twitter: / btnewsroom
» Follow us on Instagram: / btnewsroom
At Breakthrough News we believe in the power of independent media. Five mega-corporations dominate the media landscape - controlling 90% of what we read, watch and listen to. They control the news cycle, to which social media and even most “alternative” media is forced to respond. We are breaking through that cycle.
We tell the untold stories of resistance from poor and working-class communities - because out of these stories we will construct a different narrative of the world, as it is and in real time.
People’s movements in every corner of the globe are changing history and shifting consciousness. But these movements barely receive any coverage from the corporate media. They need visibility. They need amplification. They need a media arm to break through.
We can be that media arm, but only with your help. Become a Patron and join us on the front lines in the battle of ideas.
Subscribe and follow us! / breakthroughnews @BTNewsroom
#Marxisteconomics #capitalism #imperialismexplained #imperialism #socialisteconomics #BreakThroughNews #BTnews #socialistnews #socialist #raniakhalek #eugenepuryear
Rania is doing some of the smartest, most educational, must-watch interviews. Thanks.
Agreed 👍🏼
Yes, she is. Katie Halper, too.
But not a single critical question!
The Patanaiks are amazing!!! Theory of Imperialism changed my life. Thank you Rania, you’re the best!
In what way did it change your life?
The absolutely insane idea of constructing a major military defense along all of your OWN borders to keep your people IN was something that began with Communism. Only the left has to kill its people to keep millions of them from running away as soon as they possibly can.
It's absolutely mindblowing how Prof. Patnaik explains such complex things into this much clarity. David Hervey should listen to this chat to understand better what imperialism actually means rather than only reading Marx without actually extrapolating it. Prof. Richard Wolff should invite Prabhat and Utsa Patnaik for 2 hour-long discussions to let the western audience know how this imperialism actually works in the real world!
that is past. done and dusted.. Now in this whole free trade thingy how to be more effective. This country to country handshake is not working well given the wars etc going on..I think hub and spoke is better option than individual country to county hand shake for trade. moreover usa has a say on how India purchases oil from Russia. Pak PM Imran apparently was outset just because he went and met Russians I think on the day war was declared on ukraine. we need more dialogues on innovative ways to trade..
The acid test of a country is whether people want to live there. Communist countries all had to have walls and millions of men to keep their people IN. America needs walls to keep people OUT.
Just want to thank Rania for asking great questions, and letting Prof Patnaik speak in sufficient detail
When Lenin’s Bolsheviks took over Russia, they did exactly the same basic thing as the cargo culters in New Guinea: they set up offices and sent people out to redistribute the cargo, which we call production. And they were astonished to find that there wasn’t any production.
Great interview very informative thank you 🙏 I’m from Ethiopia 🇪🇹 they are destroying my country
Solidarity from the working class of the US.
To loot all your natural resources. meanwhile, Black people are being slaughtered in every street of usa and europe.
*When socialists will come, they will do the same.*
During the Ethiopian civil war the involvement of the imperialist powers was evident.i will go as far as saying that it was the conspiring of the imperialist west with the Arab fanatics that made the most populous nation in east Africa a landlocked nation
but worse.@@noize2sound
The Netherlands had colonies all over the place. Indonesia comes to mind. Also, New York used to be New Amsterdam before the British defeated the Dutch and took over the city.
Netherlands is not Scandinavian
This blew my mind. Didn't know this.
I'm descendent of the Dutch Imperialistic Apartheid colonialists. They say the first multi national was the Dutch VOC (EastIndiaCompany). They were really state pirates in Indonesia/Maluku Islands/Papoea. Also Surinam (SouthAmerica) was until the late 1970s Dutch colony (slave plantations - bauxiet), The Dutch Antilles: Curacao, Aruba Bonaire they have until special status under the Kingdom of the Netherlands 🤮 The Dutch were also in SouthAfrica (APARTHEID is a Dutch word) en de Boere (Euro coloniser and Apartheid regime creators) and ofcourse NewYork (being swapped for Suriname). The Dutch were AND STILL ARE VERY POWERFUL (also in geo politics). The creators of the BILDERBERG meetings. The Dutch king and his wife are the speaking tube for UN & WEF (world economic forum aka Whealthy Demonic fascists😉).
I assumed this would be informative, but it was far more enlightening than I expected and in ways I hadn't anticipated. Great interview! The Patnaiks' book moved up to the top of my must-get list.
Love this interview, Rania. Great job-this is public service.
Re🎉r🎉🎉really 8🎉🎉
First time that I've heard of Professor Pataik. Fantastic guest.👍
Look up Utsa Patnaik on trade on CZcams. Also a genius.
Chernobyl occurred in Mommy Professor’s heaven.
1st one watching from Pakistan. Laal Salam Comrades. Brilliant work.
Lal salaam comrade. Faiz ka mission hum karenge pura ✊
Revolutionary greetings Comrade
Lal salam from Kerala ✊🏽
Lal salaam from British Columbia, Canada
Laal Salam to all of you Comrades.
Long Live Resistance!
Best crossover of all time
found you 🤧
@@avanish9261 uwu
Extraordinary analysis. I have studies in environmental science, but over time I have focused my attention on economics and the functioning of the global economy because I really don't see a way in which we as humanity could stop the imminent climate catastrophe that is already underway without pushing a radical shift in the whole world economic system. All the environmental initiatives popping up here and there seem like applying band aids on a patient with 3rd degree burns. It is daunting task to even try to comprehend, let alone fix the current system, because I'm afraid it is resilient AF, very much operating in auto-pilot! Most people have grown up in this self-replicating system, with trends and aspirations rooted in our collective consciousness that are very hard to stir in a different direction. I honestly don't know how or where to begin untangling this mess we're in!
All social systems are on auto-pilot to certain extent, but that's also why they inevitably must change at some point. If growing up in a feudal society meant that people couldn't quite imagine another kind of society, it didn't stop feudalism from collapsing. However, you make a good point about the economy and the environment. I recommend you to check out the latest addition in my blog (you'll find the link in my profile). That probably gives you a clearer view on the issue.
Ready for the Meteor
Miguel has it right where will it all end. It's been a nice journey the last few centuries,but something biiigggg is going to happen in the next few decades or less.
The climate disaster is due to leftists and greens refusing nuclear power. If the climate matters so much, perhaps start by fixing that? Sadly, lots of leftists just want to use the climate as a battering ram against the miracle that is democratic-capitalist institutions and their wealth generation. They don't really want to fix anything, just tear down.
@@Eric-is1jt people said that a few decades ago too.
Outstanding interview! When talking about cotton and growing crops I was reminded of Winona LaDuke's discussion about growing textile hemp, and why after WWII the U.S. did away with hemp. She had to go to China for equipment to process the hemp she is growing in Minnesota.
Exploitation is a fundamental basis of capitalism.
Well, IS the foundation, essentially
Not just capitalism, my guy. Exploitation is a fundamental basis of humanity. It's a part of human nature, always has been, and like it or not, will always be.
@@orecreeper2128 no, you are dead wrong there, we're social animals, we never could have got where we are if it wasn't for our capacity of empathy and cooperation. Exploitation is an anti social capitalism thing, right up there with feudalism and slavery, it's a way for the few to control the many.
Voluntary exchange on a large scale is the fundamental basis of capitalism. And we've seen that large-scale alternatives are always more coercive and exploitative.
you know nothing about Capitalism, you are brainwashed by the Marxist who will take your last potato and watch you starve. who is doing better? south Korea or north Korea.
Wow! From 🇨🇦! .. I’m speechless. Now, I get it. Everything we have, from free healthcare, to cheap items etc …. We’re still practicing imperialism . Ive known for a little while, 2 years 🤦♀️, but I didn’t truly understand it, until now. Haiti and 🇨🇦, make more sense now. Just bought his book and I’m excited. Thnxxxxx. 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
As far as Marxists can tell, things are produced and they just need to distribute it.
This is insane. It is insane but it is also Marxism.
The Marxism system collapsed because it never learned to produce anything.
Such a refreshing thing to watch amidst all the current Ana Kasparian vs Aaron Mate vs Cenk Uygur vs Jimmy Dore vs Sam Seder vs etc, etc, etc, endlessly until there's no left left drama. Just a conversation actually trying to understand the world, about actual, real things.
The Syrian war, the Douma event and the subsequent bombing were very much part of the world and an actual, real thing, as was the McCarthyist smearing of people who have a different attitude to these things than the Western establishment one. Professor Patnaik is an anti-imperialist. So is Aaron Mate. Kasparian, Uygur and Seder are not.
I want you to end up with a world view that has nothing to say about Communism except that every Red State had - and has - to keep its people prisoners
thanks , rania. best wishes from indonesia for Mr Prabhat, man of enlightenment
Brilliant presentation, great questions. The professor explains complicated concepts in crystal clear language. Capitalism is vile and holds humanity back. I wish this information was more widely available to people.
Perhaps go to Venezuela, Cuba or North Korea and experience not being held back?
capitalism is the only thing that gives the poor a chance. but go with Marxism and stay in poverty.
@@kongvinter33 Capitalism has run its course. It was always meant to be superseded by a form of Socialism (just go back and read some of the classical political economists). The neoliberal-era was a reaction from the western elite and enacted in order to discipline labor in light of all the gains received in the post-war economy (particularly collective-bargaining power). Hence the rise of global finance capital and the offshoring of industrial capital.
Now the West is in a continual economic recession/spiral as a result of neoliberal policy and hegemony. Along with growing levels of inequality and absolutely bankrupt political institutions.
@@loganlowe3731 yeah...go and tell that to Africa and Asia, tell them they have to live in perpetual poverty, because that is what happens when poor countries adopt socialism. it can only work (socialism) if the country is rich, has resources and few people, like Norway. Uganda on the other hand, no chance. But that is what people like you do isnt it, sell socialism to the poor, like a preacher selling a cure to the sick. Capitalism is the only way out of poverty.
The entire economy of the Soviet Union, more than three hundred million white people, never produced ONE SINGLE consumer good anybody outside the USSR could put on the market! Like all leftism, Communism is just silly. No Communist state has ever survived without constant & massive help from non-Communist countries.
I love the Patnaiks!! Can you get Utsa to do a history of India under British rule next?
Indians would come here to study when Indian per capita income was $70 and people were dropping dead in the streets. And they had two topics of conversation: one is how superior India is as a civilization, and the other topic is how they can keep from having to go back.
Wow, what a phenomal and interesting discussion! Thank you so much!
Wow this interview was especially good.
Also I've been listening to what mostly boils down to smart white people (like Wolff) talk to each other or to a camera to get an understanding of socialism and capitalism for years. This was maybe the first eye opening interview where both parties are non white and non Western and it certainly imbues it with a different angle.
I agree it was very refreshing to hear a smart leftist from the Global South, we need more of this. However, I'd say that this is a matter of nationality, not 'race'. An 'Indian American', while having the exact same physical features as Professor Patnaik, wouldn't have his perspectives and insights. Conversely, a leftist from Eastern Europe, while physically 'white', could have a perspective that is no less different from the Western one. Not that even nationality guarantees that the individual hasn't copied too many stereotypical Western perspectives! As for Rania Khalek, my impression is that her outlook in these interviews is primarily that of a Western anti-imperialist leftist (nothing especially 'non-white' about it), although she does maintain a strong connection to the her country of origin and its politics. Even in terms of physical 'whiteness', I am not proficient in the weird US race classificatory system, but I'm fairly sure that, like many people from the Levant, she could easily pass for a Greek, Italian or Spanish woman. I certainly can't imagine her being viewed as anything other than white in South-Eastern Europe.
@@dumupad3-da241Doesn't the Levant have some people that can look south east European or southern spanish but aren't they much darker on the whole? Most wouldn't have been considered "white" in redneck country of "america". I believe places like the Levant and Syria were considered white countries by the American government during its whites only immigration policy though. I suppose there have been links to the rest of Europe because of its sheer proximity
Isn't it more like pseudo-intellectual white people trick pseudo-intellectual non-white people into becoming marxists and start dabbling in nonsense theories that hold them back and perpetuate poverty in their home countries? The road to prosperity is embracing and honing capitalist institutions, not making up conspiracy theory nonsense to be able to refuse them altogether.
No offense to Soapbox but this is soooo much better! Great job Rania!
Just to be clear, the Scandinavian countries were also knee deep in Transatlantic slavery and did also have colonies in Africa and the Americas.
They also sold arms to almost all African right wing sponsored revolutions and coup détats
That's exaggerated, I think. The colonies were very few and small and of negligible economic importance. They did participate in the slave trade, but again, it was hardly enough to affect their economic development significantly.
@@dumupad3-da241 through selling minerals ?
@@dumupad3-da241exaggerations are what grievance-generating leftists live for.
@@raymar091how can you sell arms to revolutions and coup détats? Those are usually sudden and use what's available, presumably bought by the pre-existing leftists regimes then, if the revolutionary events were right-wing.
I will not allow anyone to say Prabhat Patnaik without the title 'Sheikh'.
Sheikh Prabhat Patnaik?
@@death2colonialism yes.
Thanks Rania!
Your questions are pedagogical, and help illuminate the mechanisms of Imperialism
and Capitalism.
If You live in Lebanon at the moment perhaps Your should make a program about the Israeli rogue State?
It's been so many years since I've heard the name Andre Gunder Frank even mentioned.
Interesting how Prabhab Pratnaik say economics is "very ideological" whereas Ben Norton says that it's "very practical" (about profits) from businessmen's and shareholders POV, but yes politicians certainly weaponize economics and it seems the "big scare" or "red scare" is how emerging powers emulate the weaponizating of economics behavior from the West... which will give the East/"global South" more political clout in world politics.
Intelligent, cogent questions/brilliant, clear answers! We need more of both.
Very intellectually stimulating. Professor Patnaik explains complex issues in clear and concise way, and his kind and calm manner is winning. Some further questions that come to mind as a result of this interview: How does he envision the place of the global North in a future non-imperialist world, given its dearth of resources? And how does he view the former northern socialist countries, given that they were operating under the same climatic restrictions as the capitalist West? In general, is there place for a *fair* global division of labour and what would it look like? Should the goal for leftists in the Global South be autarchy? Some recommendations to those of the West would have been useful - what agenda should they pursue and how can they avoid making the pro-people policies that they are pushing for in their own countries rely on anti-people policies in the South? Perhaps his answers can be found in longer interviews and/or in his writings. Finally, as of now, the idea of a major left/social-democratic turn by Biden doesn't seem as plausible as it may have seemed four months ago.
Great interview
Thank you for this conversation. I learned so much. ❤
Colonialism is apparent occupation and subjugation of a country. Dr. Kwame Nkrumah dubbed this current era as neo-colonialism. His book is Neocolonialism, the last stage of Imperialism. Must have
Excellent conversation
Sorry I spelled Imperialism with a 'e'. And to say thank you for this all the way from Australia. Keep strong.
The acid test of a country is whether people want to live there. Communist countries failed that test. Apartheid South Africa passed.
Great interview.
Simply astounding and extraordinary.
wow what a coincidence, im halfway through their new book Capital and Imperialism!
Thank you very much for such a great program and all the knowledge shared!
Lal Salaam from India 🇮🇳 ♥️
I wish more people watched this
It all boils down to get your hands on whatever you can -- from wherever you can -- never mind how you go about it!
Another quality informative program thank you again
Keep up the good work Rania.
Very informative thanks 🙏
Wonderful work, Rania!
There are bits of Marx and Lenin that need a bit of clean-up and resuscitation, Michael Perelman-style. This clip definitely hits that groove.
Tania is a superb interviewer. Her questioning both supports and challenges her guest so that the listeners gain real depth and understanding. Rare skills. Prof Patnaik is, of course a superb guest - erudite, but accessible, clear, but never simplistic. 90 minutes of top quality brain food. Thank you so much.
@@tashi1315 perhaps challenge yourself and read Johan Norberg's: "The Capitalist Manifesto - Why the Global Free Market Will Save the World"?
Very good interview thanks
that is a great avenue to thinking,understand what around here and there..thanks alot for the efforts
Great interview, very informative and educative. An eye opener. Thanks
Rania keep it up very important interview thanks
Love this wise couple: Dr Utsa and Dr Prabhat - thank you so much for sharing your wealth of knowledge
Rania please have Michael Hudson next on your show
This was fire …. Listening to it third time!
The Crusaders created the first banks and cheques. Prior to that it was Jerusalem tax system before the fall of the Temple System in 70 A.D. Then the Roman Empire acquiring the Roman Catholic (Universal) Church, taxes and tithes. Then the Dark Age, The Renaissance, Then came Industrial Revolution, and the individualism of the worker working for the industrialist.
Excellent interview. You should try interviewing Ali Kadri. He's great.
An an informative interview. Thank you.
Because of Imperialism India lost 465 trillions to Britain when it colonized India. It is time Britain pay back to India in this pendemic period.
India’s non alignment also came to a screeching halt when in the late 80s/early 90s they had to airlift gold to the Bank of England to pay spiralling debts and ensure they could continue to purchase essential commodities. Britain is a scoundrel, gangster state.
India is vastly underperforming versus e.g. China due to India's failures and unwillingness to embrace openness and strong capitalist institutions, essentially because its sticking to leftist ideas. Work on that instead of nurturing historical grievances.
Love this! thank you comrades
Good on you , young lady , for your words is what is required in these current times off despair .You are the future .
Brilliant
Would've been nice to included footage from the storming of the knesset, but likely too recent to make it in.. tremendous video and analysis, hoping together we shift the world towards justice and peace
Rania is my new hero
Thanks!
It would be great to have an update on these issues now that 2 years have passed and BRICS is rising.
India gets a lot of sh*t on leftist social media, but you gotta admit some of the best socialist minds come from there.
Brilliant!
well done again. & again
Rania is eye candy
Great interview, I was surprised at the comments about the vaccine, etc. then I realized the video was 2 years old.
I leave on the imperialism so one day i have planing to travel on vacation and i was on a plane to seeing every country of area in Pacific Island so very interesting because I believe i ever seen a little tiny island stay with his self i interested when i traveling in any place iin Pacific Ocean finally i see a blue light flashing from inside the water was very amazing and when i looking around every imperial country around it very interesting
Imperialist rivalry engendered two world wars; the second one with devastating consequences. Is Warfare as well as enormous waste in ever larger expenditure on armaments (investment in deaths and destruction) an inevitable component of present day imperialism?
Yes, but it's Russia and other authoritarian regimes that generates that, not democratic-capitalist countries.
Ask Prabhat Patnaik: Where does he fit China in his Theory of Imperialism.
Great compèring!
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Good talk
👍
Every single ideology is Imperialistic by default.
Without exception.
Every idea what's to spread.
Fully agree.
Capitalism takes from the poor and gives to the rich. Imperialism is how capitalism extends and enlarges itself.
25:00 Reserve army of unemplyed and price takers concept
my actual life goal is to have a wife to co author a book on imperialism with 😭😭 what a legend
29:15 I read/listened to an article a few years back that the American internal war (1861 - 1865) was really a war between the capitalists in the north and the slave owners in the south. It wasn’t done to free the slaves, it was done to give the northern capitalists control of the south. The south at the time was very prosperous, dealt independently with foreign nations and was a source of income for the federal government.
Farmers' strike in India is misrepresented in this video. It was a 'Rich' farmers strike. 85% money was used by the rich farmers doing industrial farming. Importantly, one should read about the ecological impact of such price guarantees for the crops. In particular, it incentivises farmers to harvest water-consuming crops, which has resulted in damaged groundwater levels. Abolishing the price guarantee was disincentivising the 'rich' farmers to farm water-consuming crops. Because the government laws were paying farmers to deplenish groundwater levels. The government had abolished the price guerentees so that the money could be redistributed to the 'true poor' farmers more fairly. In India, the right-left narrative is not analogous and polar as in the West. For example, in this case, the right-wing government taking a decision that has a positive impact on the environment (and also the 'true poor' farmers).
Even though I have been following the quality content by Breakthrough News so far. This misrepresentation makes me question the way it has covered the other stories in a fair and unbiased way.
PS: Ironically, I remember Greta Thurnberg supporting the 'rich' Farmers strike.
Aye aye!
Will cryptocurrencies materially alter capitalism/ appropriation?
Something is rotten in Denmark.
🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Has China shown that the imperialist apple cart can be upturned?
China has shown, again, that leftist ideas hold people back. Relative openness and capitalist institutions create wealth. India sticking to leftist ideas remains weak.
Small scale capitalism with government regulation is not unregulated Big Money Capitalism.
This dialogue ignores the Pact for the Continuation of Colonization in AFRICA
Please distinguish colonialism from imperialism or neo colonialism.
48:36
Speak about british colonialism "bristish imperialism took goods from colonized countries Free..." Basically then who where the Beneficiary of "Free Hands Out?"
🤯
He is talking BS. Empires existed before capitalism, remember Egyptian empire? Switzerland is not an empire but is a strong capitalist country.
He explained that Scandinavian countries relied on Imperialism from Britain. Pay attention, please.
@@binnahgondwe5158there's always excuses for bad theories.
1:24:32 It is my understanding that India could not get the vaccine because they refused to give the pharmaceutical companies immunity from prosecution for vaccine injury.
Some of these arguments and narratives I don’t find compelling.
I can imagine a world where industrialization arises before or without any colonies. That the Industrial Revolution in Britain was at first based specifically on textile is a historical accident due to Britain’s cheap access to cotton due to its colonization of India, which could grow that cotton.
But if there were no other countries besides Britain (or if the world had one government and a global market), there would be no colonization or imperialism.
I don’t know if I’ve ever learned so much and had the paradigm of which I view the world so wholly shifted in an hour and a half. Coming from American “left” independent media to media made outside of our conditioned bubble has connected the dots of what just felt off and missing from the picture. The normative American world view is sooo insanely far from the truth that being on the other side of that now makes me realize I live in a legitimate YA novel worthy dystopia.
13:54 I don’t think actually answered the question of why did the northern countries actually became capitalist?
Denmark wants to consume cocoa and cannot grow it, but that by itself does not require imperialism, colonialism or exploitation of other countries.
30:12 The Scandinavian countries plundered the countries below them for resources (Vikings) in the Middle Ages.
capitalism has, besides all the inner barriers it builts over decades and centuries that show its inner contradiction leading to selfdestruction, one MAJOR drift to exactly trying to avoid this selfdestructions, which is itself a simulated avoidance and it is: CAPITALISM has the tendency to transfer into its full blown SIMULATION of itself. we are already inside the beginning of this process. it also means that thje more it needs to simualte itslef the extremer the fascist parts get while simulating democracy too.