What are "Language Flags?" (And Should They Exist?)
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- čas přidán 5. 05. 2024
- Languages are often portrayed with flags, but often, there seems to be no reason or rime for why one flag is chosen over another. English can be represented with a British flag (correct) or an American flag (incorrect) or some kind of combination of the two. Portuguese is most often portrayed not with the flag of Portugal but that of Brazil. And then when we get to Arabic we have a whole different kettle of fish. Chinese is most often split between Simplified and Traditional Chinese with a variety of flags being used from the People's Republic of China (Mainland) and the Republic of China (Taiwan) as well as the flag of Hong Kong.
Timestamps:
00:00-00:25 Intro
00:25-02:17 English
02:17-03:49 Portuguese
03:49-05:02 Arabic
05:02-06:42 Hindi/Urdu/Hindustani
06:42-07:20 Korean
07:20-10:10 Chinese (Mandarin, Cantonese, Simple, Traditional)
10:10-13:53 Afrikaans
13:53-15:44 Frisian
15:44-16:20 Outro
Music Used:
Eine Kleine Nachtmusik - Mozart
Midsummer Night's Dream - Mendelssohn
Egmont Overture - Beethoven
Sunday Dub - Kevin MacLeod
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This is a poorly, seriously poorly researched video. With a clear agenda
for instance?
why
the dutch agenda of course
what's the agenda
Also Hilbert, I wouldn't pin that guy and give him more attention.
I have have a simple solution:
English 🇿🇦
French 🇨🇦
Spanish 🇭🇳
Portugese 🇲🇿
Chinese 🇸🇬
Hindi 🇫🇯
Korean 🇰🇵
Dutch 🇦🇼
Russian 🇺🇿
Afrikaans 🇳🇦
German 🇧🇪
Arabic 🇧🇭
Swedish 🇫🇮
Take my upvote and leave 😠
Why not French QC and French FR
@@Game_Hero French is an official language of Canada.
Absolutely cursed and I love it
As a South African English speaker, this is a win.
> which flag should be used to represent the language of england
> doesnt show the flag of england
that was also my first thought
>which flag should be used to represent the language of america
>doesnt show the flag of america
4:58 Correction: That's actually the flag of the Arab League. (Sometimes used as the flag of the Arabic Language.)
I think he should have included the flag of the Arab Revolt since it is sometimes used to represent Arabic, I personally think it is the best option, because it is a pan-Arab flag.
I will never stop using the American flag to represent the American language
0 likes and no replies? Let me fix that
good on you, Simp
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And what about "EL CATALA"?...😑😑🤔...
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The Arabic flag on Duolingo is the Arab League flag. Yiddish is a language on Duolingo which has a unique non-national flag which showcases the writing script.
I suppose having the German flag for Yiddish would be a big confusing
Languages do not always correspond with nationality. For example here in Switzerland showing foreign flags to symbolise national languages would feel a bit weird. We solve it with acronyms. DE=Deutsch (German), FR=Français (French) IT=Italiano (Italian) and RM=Rumantsch (Romansh)
That has always been the way in English and I’m guessing most languages, the flag thing is just modern “fashion” or whatever
That makes complete sense, not least because those acronyms are standardized in ISO 639, so people don't need to come up with their own solutions to a problem that was solved years ago.
@@rahjah6958 Fashion since 1990's at least as it most likely originates from computer systems and possibly packaging of products made in places with cheap labour and often alphabets that are quite different from Latin. So it!s with us for some 25-35 years.
@@passantNL But the question is, as I have pointed out in my other comment whether it is solution that can is universally applicable, especially in case of digital media. For example in case of dubbing or language selection in computer games. Especially in case of media intended for kids and for media that are intended to be sold in countries with low literacy rates. In those cases use of ISO codes would most likely fail or would make it harder for people to use given media. Another problem could be with devices set in language in totally different alphabets, if they would use, for whatever reason, transcription of the code to their native alphabet, anybody outside area of use of given alphabet would have it hard to set it in language that is at least using Latin alphabet.
@@MrToradragon No solution is "universally applicable". A child might not recognize a flag unless it was the flag of their own country. And those hybrid designs, that are never used in the real world at all, can be confusing to anyone. I don't think there exists a "universally applicable" solution.
new bottle deposit machines in ireland have English represented with the flag of the republic of ireland, and the irish language represented with a traditional flag of a gold harp on a dark green background
Ooh, fancy 👌
Cute :)
Go to an Iarnród Éireann station and Irish is represented with 🇮🇪, and English is represented with 🏴.
Sad to see that machine saying that Irish are English
@@Aresydatch The Irish are English, with a rather large chip on their collective shoulders.
English and American English have different pronunciation, different words and different spelling.
Same with Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese.
So to me the correct approach (if you absolutely have to have a flag) appears to offering both dialects in such language-selectors.
No. English is from England. Portuguese is from Portugal. End of. Both languages should be represented by their country of origin.
The Portuguese language is not such a dual language, it is quite complex.
There are so many varieties of the language, that to follow your logic it was necessary to have a flag for each of these varieties.
You might even say "Ah, but as Brazil and Portugal are different countries and have different and distant accents, it makes sense to use separate flags". The problem is that the concept of Brazilian Portuguese is generalized, because there are accents in Brazil with a correspondence in Portugal, not the same but with mutual origins, inheritances in this case.
In the Minas Gerais region in Brazil, you will find a set of similar phonetics that exist in the Beiras region in Portugal, with in many cases words and phrases sounding the same and the difference not being noticeable.
Furthermore, accents in the South of Brazil even have a lot of similarity to neutral Portuguese in Portugal, such a closeness that in many cases it is not noticeable to a Portuguese listener that it is an accent from a foreign country and not from the country itself.
@@noahbrock349 That's not what the post you're replying to is saying at all. They appear to be saying that for languages with significant differences between the dialects (such as the spelling differences between British and American english) the language should be split into two options, each represented by the relevant flag if one must use a flag at all.
@@noahbrock349 Portuguese is 1. Not originally from Portugal, 2. Not spoken mostly by Portuguese even in its European standard and 3. Not in any relevant way more Portuguese than anyone else's
@@RicardoBaptista33 Brazilian portuguese exists as a different variety than European Portuguese, that's why translations, dubs etc are all différente between them. They at much more separated than British and American English, for example. Phonetically it's not true that Brazilian portuguese of any region is that close to the European variety of the south, which experienced the great vowel shift much after Brazilian Portuguese had already detached itself from Portugal.
Hilbert conveniently forgets that 1/3 of speakers of his beloved Dutch come from Flanders 🇧🇪
Put the Flemish lion on the Dutch flag and we should be set
@@jeannebouwman1970and maybe a golden star (Suriname) inside of the lion.
Flinders? Like the Simpsons? You just made that place up
@@GeraldEatsSoup in Flanders Fields the poppies blow Between the crosses, row on row, That mark our place; and in the sky The larks, still bravely singing, fly Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow, Loved, and were loved, and now we lie In Flanders fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe To you from failing hands we throw The torch, be yours to hold it high If ye break faith with us who die We shall not sleep, though poppies grow In Flanders fields.
_Belgium is not a real nation._ - Nigel Farage, European Parliament
South Africa has 12 official languages. It recently adopted South African Sign Language as an official language.
Hopefully the right one this time. Not the one of the guy signing at Mandela's funeral...
Yes, but most of the time when people talk about “languages” they are talking about verbal ones.
@@snomcultist189 You're ignoring how the rest of the 12 languages, ARE verbal ones ...and how/why don't sign languages count? They are separate languages.
@@snomcultist189 Huh? What are you talking about? What is a sign language if not a language? It's literally in the name.
@@tonydai782 The video is about a VISUAL representation of a language that is written. One can't read sign language in a medium that would use a flag representation.
8:44. Hong Kong has a majority of Cantonese speakers, but that is not where the majority of them live. It'd be kind of like saying the majority of English-speakers lives in London.
88.2% of Hong Kong speak Cantonese as a native language: ~6,479,172
which is eclipsed by the 82 million native speakers of Cantonese worldwide, many of them in Guangdong or Guangxi province.
At the start of the video, there is a *_mention_* of the question of whether language flags should exist ...and it then proceeds to *_completely ignore that question,_* and just talk about which ones we should use, with the firm implicit assumption, that we of course should use them.
Literally so true. I think using flags for languages at all is stupid.
@@philswiftreligioussect9619 I love flags, it's nice
@@peterii3512 Sure, but that doesn't mean you should use them for _languages._
I think we should use language flags, because you can identify a flag much faster than a word. But i dont think these flags should have anything to do with country flags. Just my oppinion
@@idk-wy3pk that's why there are words for languages. What you just said makes no sense. Japanese is Japanese, and Japanese in Japanese is 日本語. Humans are not children, you don't need added graphics to represent languages, and using flags poses more inconveniences than what they're worth.
There's a big difference between native and second language speakers. Personally I don't think I would represent second language speakers on a flag
This is language flag lol for the majority of the world English is second or third language.
Spanish should be Ñ in red and white background
💀💀💀💀💀
Oh, like the flag for Yiddish in Duolingo.
Why? What does the "Ñ" stand for?
@@noahbrock349 spaniards go 0.00001 seconds without being racist challenge (IMPOSSIBLE!)
@@just_some_guy_innit What?
English language flag should be English flag. Simple
Hmm. You sure bout that? I mean the prestige dialect is Standard North American. Ask your pop singers, lol. Now we should have the maple leaf in the canton. Canada might get mad and send the geese after us if we don't include them.
Came here to say this.
What about the australians?@@Jesus_equals_LOVEnForgviness
@@Jesus_equals_LOVEnForgvinessPop singers don't sing in General American, but a modified, often non-rhotic form.
I'm American and I support this. I'm 🇺🇸 and I speak 🏴.
Why did you skip French and Spanish? The 2nd and 4th most spoken languages?
I'm an Australian, the Union Jack makes more sense to me to represent English than the stars and stripes.
Exactly.
For English I'd like the English (not British) better. The other countries in the UK did not originally speak English
Scotland?
@@peterii3512 Spoke Gaelic and Scots
@@peterii3512You do understand why it is called "English"? It is not native to Scotland.
Fair, but I don't think most people would recognize the flag of England if they saw it, even if the would absolutely recognize the US and British flags.
personally I like his 1st flag (American and British flags cut diagonally down the middle) with the Canton on his 2nd (the one that represents Canada and Scotland). thereby representing all countries where the majority of the population speaks English as their 1st language (to my knowledge)
@@adamcollins1551 Scots is a dialect of English
For English I think you should use a Union Flag (or St. George's Cross) if its in British English spellings, and a US flag if it's in American English spellings.
I don't think it's good to use any of the complicated hybrids or new designs (like options 3 and 4 for Portuguese) because the point of a flag is to be recognisable.
Just use a picture of the Queen, if you want to refer to the Queen's English.
@@MatthiasGorgens No Keith from the pub would be more recognisable
That "English" hybrid one certainly shouldn't exist.
It's truly hideous.
Use the cross of St George
Saying this as an American, a large swath of the population would not immediately recognize the British flag represents English. You gotta spell it out for them. When you go thru Canadian customs there's a little American flag on the line for foreigners lol
@@t_ylr Well, that's your education system's fault.
@@t_ylr They should do.
Isn't Duolingo's Arabic flag the flag of the Arab League?
It is.
Here in Ireland we mostly use 🇮🇪 for Irish/Gaeilge and 🇬🇧 for English. But sometimes English is represented with the flag of England (🏴) and sometimes Irish is represented by a traditional symbol of Ireland: gold harp on blue background. Sometimes there's this awful half Irish tricolour, half GB flag used. It's a mess. Flags ≠ languages!!
Wow, I'm surprised the irish have more respect for the english and scottish than the americans!
Really interesting topic, I sometimes wonder if we could get single characters to represent languages like Ñ for Spanish, Ü for German, ã for portuguese and so on.
It could work for majority languages but it would get very confusing with minority languages. Plus Ñ is also used by other languages.
Maybe the solution would be to have only majority languages represented by characters and local languages by their own flag.
(not like this is gonna happen anyways)
Being speaker of a language that uses ñ but it's not Spanish I'm not against this
Ü is also used in many other languages, but for german ẞ could be used, since this letter is unique to german
No. Those letters are not exclusively used in those languages. It is meaningless.
In spanish we use "Ü" too. It's usually when a "U" after a "G" and before an "E" or an "I" o to denote that it's not silent (when in Spanish it would normally be).
"Antigüedad" has an articulated "u" while "Guerra" has a silent "u", both following a soft "G.
@@mst671 Exactly. The letter Ü is present in the Hungarian, Turkish, Uyghur Latin, Estonian, Azeri, Turkmen, German, Crimean Tatar, Kazakh Latin and Tatar Latin alphabets. And in Chinese romanization/Pinyin.
Or you could do it like the language selection on Steam. It has English (Tradtional) with the UK flag and English (Simplified) with the US flag.
Always makes me giggle
For portuguese, the flag usually identifies dialect, that is also why a lot sites separate pt-pt and pt-br, in English the differences between us and uk are barely noticeable like color and colour, but in potuguese even conjugation is different between dialects.
*Nice video! This list actually proves how useless the idea of flag languages becomes:*
🇮🇳 हिन्दी
🇧🇩 বাংলা
🇵🇰 اُردو
🇮🇳 తెలుగు
🇮🇳 தமிழ்
🇹🇭 ภาษาไทย
🇮🇳 ગુજરાતી
🇮🇳 ಕನ್ನಡ
🇲🇲 မြန်မာစကား
🇮🇳 ଓଡ଼ିଆ
🇮🇳 മലയാളം
🇮🇳 ਪੰਜਾਬੀ
🇱🇦 ພາສາລາວ
🇰🇭 ភាសាខ្មែរ
🇱🇰 සිංහල
🇧🇹 ལྷ་སའི་སྐད་
Province flags exist too, btw...
If you want to represent a provincial language (like Punjab or Mahrathi) you can use the flag of the province, if you insist on using flags...
@@adrianblake8876 we don’t really have provincial (or more accurately, state) flags in India 🇮🇳
Urdu and Bengali both are Indian languages made by Indians. More people speak Urdu and Bengali in India than Pakistan and Bangladesh
Actually you can represent Tamil with Singapore 🇸🇬 flag
@@mikhail_verdeeh no, it has originated within India so...
When I saw the video I was like "cool, someone else has done this aswell", and then saw I was part of the inspiration 💪🏼. Thanks for the shout-out and keep creating! ✨😁
Chinese Simplified being PRC and Traditional being HK is on a whole new level
Yeah, ain’t that right? But I think that’s one of the best options out there. Using Taiwanese flag will cause backlash in China, but using HK flag is acceptable for people in Taiwan.
@@sine_nomine_ct "taiwan" not even a country, that's just an island. But anyways, why would you be against using the Chinese flag for Chinese? lol
@@tovarishcheleonora8542 actual ccp bot in the wild holy shit, also the guy never once said he's against using the chinese flag to represent the chinese, the hell are you on about?
shouldn't have expected more from a ccp bot and also Taiwan/ROC by all means IS a country, is just that no one is willing to recognize it due to "economic consequences" and mainland China's hold on international affairs
Cope and seethe tankie@@tovarishcheleonora8542
@@tovarishcheleonora8542 Taiwan also known as Republic of China is a country please do not spread that communist propaganda
- ENGLISH: I'd rather English be represented by the Union Jack (or the flag of England). If it absolutely had to combine other countries where it is spoken natively, then I prefer the 2nd version from all four. I do not think that countries, where it is not spoken natively should be included.
- PORTUGUESE: Again, I prefer that languages be represented by the flag of the country where they originated. Out of the four options, I'd choose number 4.
- ARABIC: I actually don't like using the Saudi Arabia flag for Arabic. I like the Duolingo flag for Arabic, it also makes sense, because Arabs call their language 'lughat al-Dad'.
- HINDI/URDU: Indian flag for Hindi and Pakistani flag for Urdu.
- KOREAN: South Korean flag.
- CHINESE: don't really care/have an opinion but your opinion makes sense to me
- DUTCH: I don't care
I'm Brazilian, and well... Portuguese from Portugal and Brazilian Portuguese are VERY different, we can almost not understand them. It's not like Americans and Britons who can understand each other easily. I would say that there must be a separation of the 2 languages, as there is a lot of difference, even though we have been influenced by them, our language is made up of several others.
@@Seyex But could you read things written in the European Portuguese variety or are the differences more extreme when spoken?
@@samplesample7178 The difference is most noticeable when spoken, accent and the different use of words complicates our communication. Now when it comes to writing, some words are the same as the ones we use. For example... In Portugal, the second form is used a lot: "Tu" and "Vós". This format causes even more strangeness to the ears of Brazilians, who usually use "Você" and "Nós". They may be similar, but the conjugation of verbs makes it difficult to understand in speech, this improves when written.
Lately, the Portuguese are starting to say "Geladeira" which is a word we also use to say "Refrigerator".
Well, I think compression can be even better in writing, we learned some words that are the same as those used in Portugal, but many others are different.
I feel because the whole point of these flags are to communicate to someone what language is represented non-verbally the clearness of the two flags sharing the space is ideal, I like the alternate flags but if I was looking for English I'd check for a british or american flag and the hybrids look more like a unique flag and I might mistake it for liberia or something than option 1 where the two just share the same space with a diagonal slant
The name of the language rendered in said language should be fine.
the use for language flags here is mostly discussed for learning apps -> for people that dont speak the language already. Writing the name of languages is the worst possible solution here. Especially if its in a different script.
डोटेली
नेपाल भाषा
नेपाली
पालि
भोजपुरी
मराठी
मैथिली
संस्कृतम्
Just an example
@@konsumkind99 You do both. You show the language in its name in its writing system along with a localized version to the current system language. If you want an additional symbol you can use the ISO codes for languages (albeit these are all in Latin script which is a bias).
You dont need to write the language you want to learn in said language. When will there ever be a native speaker that uses Duolingo to learn their own language via a different one?
But it's not visually appealing
In the case of Spanish, technically most Hispanic countries agreed on a flag in 1933 Montevideo Conference: the Hispanic people's flag. However nowadays barely anyone beyond Honduras actually uses it and most just prefer to use either the mexican flag, the spanish flag or every spanish-speaking flag put together in a flsg to represent the language itself
Lets not forget that languages have alot of internal diversity, so the choice of flag can also provide information. For instance, the stars and stripes would indicate the american flavor of english, whereas the union jack would indicate the british flavour. In either case, outside of a local or academic setting most cases the flag is going to represent some regional standard of the language.
a lot*
There's no single British flavour of English. Talk to a Scouser and someone from Hackney and someone from Glasgow.
@@MatthiasGorgens True, I was mostly refering to the standard form.
This is kind of a false debate in many respects. Most of these languages are pluricentric, with multiple standards, with each standard dictating aspects of spelling and grammar that you have to choose between in formal speech and writing, and the standards in practically every case tied officially or unofficially to specific countries. Even in countries without a government-mandated language authority, the government itself follows certain specific styles, which, combined with recognised thought leaders in the territory define a defacto territorial standard. And you as a content publisher for practical purposes are picking one.😊
So if you're planning to spell colour "color," use an American flag. Otherwise, you're probably planning to adhere to British standards and you should use a British flag.
For entertainment value, however, you should take the Language Simp approach. Ireland for English, Québec for French, Mozambique for Portuguese, Kazakhstan for Russian, and so on.
Exactly. Brazilian and European Portuguese are not only totally different in the streets, but follow different standards, and have different translations of books, dubbing for media, and separate versions of product information as well as of most services (when available in both countries). There's no point in making a one-size-fits-all of what will be a version which *in practice* follows either the Brazilian or the European standard. Instead of "improving" the communication, it would deprive the user of relevant information.
Not to mention there is so much to nitpick. He didn't explain the last 2 options for Portuguese. There is no point in having a shared language flag for Hindi and Urdu, because you would have to have separate language options anyway for the script alone. On the other hand, he acknowledges the different writing systems for Chinese (even though they write mostly the same language). I get why he wants an amalgamation of the 5 flags but that completely ignores a) that in HongKong the common written language is actually a form of written Mandarin, not written Cantonese, so the HongKong flag isn't wrong, but b) that there is so much political baggage that comes with this that makes any discussion/attempt at a crazy flag like that just a fun but pointless and disconnected endeavor. The Korean one also looks mostly like the North Korean flag, and given the political situation, it's ridiculous to assume South Koreans would be okay with their language being represented with what is mostly a North Korean flag. All in all, he doesn't address his own question of whether or not there even should be language flags, nor what the implications are behind them... and it shows when he engages in what just comes off as the pointless musings of some out-of-touch white guy. No offense
@@uamsnof haha yup, right on the money. Overall this is not a really serious video, although it weirdly made some waves with people I know. I think this way of treating the topic might be more interesting if you're not a particularly practically minded person and your focus is more, "Ooh, pretty flags, how can I mash them up!?" If the whole thing is nothing but an excuse to scheme up weird flag mash ups then suddenly it makes way more sense.
@@recurse His mistake was, that he didn't have much of an intro short of "Have you ever installed a software, looked at the language selection with all the little flags, and wondered .... ?" No, I have never had that problem, lol, the premise is already based on an unrelatable (and uncommon?) experience.
And then he jumps right into the decision making... but without establishing any kind of criterion. He toys with the idea of number of speakers, ... but then doesn't follow through or consider the difference between native speakers and 2L speakers, ... and then leaves out some of the most relevant languages for this question: Spanish and French! Hell, if it really was just for the fun of mashing up flags, then at least go into some of the aspects of visual design and symbolism other than "I like this because it looks like a squid..." Or what's the letter that he used for the Arabic flag? Why did you pick that letter? Regardless of the premise, it was an idea with so much potential for stimulating conversation or even just light-hearted fun... but just poorly thought-out and executed... You know a video was just not good when it leaves you annoyed and worse-off for having watched it, rather than engaged and stimulated.
@@uamsnof haha yup, sums it up.
08:44 I doubt we make up the majority of Cantonese speakers. We just happen to speak the best known variety of Cantonese
I’m sure there’re still many in the mainland speaking it to the point it’s 10 times more people than HK, but the language is kinda in danger ☠️
@@jclau3616”In danger” the 📈200million+ speakers:
warning flag gore at 15:55
There already is a unified Korean flag. Its map of the Korean Peninsula in blue on a white background. Its been used in a few international sporting events for join North-South teams
Hot take. Flags should make things less confusing. Not more
I prefer using the most obscure flags a language is spoken in, thanks to Language Simp.
Love the videos, man. Keep it up!!!
east frisians when theres no black in the flag: >:(
English 🍔
Spanish 🌮
French 🥐
Russian 🐻
Chinese 🦇
Turkish 🦃
Arabic 🐷
Italian 🍕
Greek ⚡
Polish 🐄
German 🍺
Portuguese 🐒
Something you missed about the arabic flag with the "ض" letter, is the reasoning behind using this specific letter and not one of the 21 other letters, its because the letter "ض" only exists in the arabic language(or so I'm told), it sound like the "D" letter, but its bolder and lower pitched.
the reason the hong kong flag is sometimes used for cantonese is (im not chinese or anything so correct me if im wrong) but cantonese is considered a spoken language mainly and there is no formal written version of it, so you wouldn't see it on a language selection screen for a piece of softwaire
Your design for all Frysian varites flag is quite pretty, I have to admit.
Being portuguese, if you want to represent "the portuguese language" in general just use the CPLP flag. If you want to represent the language used in subtitles/dubbed content, just use the flag associated with the form of portuguese used. I have no problem with seeing the brazilian flag used to represent something subtitled/dubbed using a form of brazilian portuguese. The types of portuguese used in various places are so distinct that the syntax is usually enough to identify the dialect used. I would rather that than seeing the portuguese flag used to represent something using anything other than european portuguese (I would see it as misleading).
Exactly. As a portuguese, I don't mind when I enter a website and the portuguese option has the brazillian flag, and then when I read it its in brazillian portuguese. It just makes sense. Now when you see Portugal's flag and then the text is brazillian portuguese, it feels a bit weird at first xd, because I wasn't expecting it. But in the end portuguese is portuguese. I read my websites in english anyways because usually there's translation errors in both ahah
the reason for the Arabic flag (referring to the flag in the thumbnail) having this particular pattern, is not because the writing scheme being different or that it represents the name of the language but, rather because this particular letter is such a unique trait of the Arabian alphabet. Many other languages have similar writing styles to Arabic such as Farsi, Persian, Kurdish.. etc. Arabic is special because of the sound this letter makes, which is almost entirely exclusive to Arabic, some even call Arabic "the language of Thdat" in reference to this one sound the letter makes.
So impressed that you pronounced Afrikaans correctly, I was bracing myself for “Aefreekanz”.
I love your solution with the orange instead of the red, as a Cape Town person myself I think it’s awesome. Baie dankie boet
The simple answer would be: DON'T USE FLAGS FOR LANGUAGES. EVER.
Flags represent nations or regions. Not languages.
But that would have been a very short video.
But every country has it's own native language, and every language has it's own origin of country. So you technically can use flags for that purpose.
@@tovarishcheleonora8542 You either didn't watch the video or didn't understand it. Many languages don't have a single country of origin (or current speakership), and many countries have more than one official language. It's not unambiguous.
Example: German has originated in the areas of current-day Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Luxemburg, Belgium... So using the flag of Germany for German is disregarding the equally important number of native speakers in other countries.
Switzerland has four official languages. Using the Swiss flag for any of these four languages doesn't tell you much.
So you might as well just not use flags altogether.
The correct answer is that flags should not be used to represent language.
Should we just use words?
I mean yes languages is just words, and to use their names to describe them is all that is needed.
I just think it's fun to have something like Flags or other things to represent something that is otherwise pretty boring.
@@roallposselt4527 Languages are boring? Writing systems are boring?
@@gotoastalI think they meant long lists of names are boring. To which I'd mostly agree, yeah.
Flags shouldn't even exist to be fair. Languages represent the natural mode of communication of people, while flags represent the oppression of the state over those people
Culture flags should absolutely exist though. It'll help show the different peoples who make up a single country. Like in South Africa. I hate how foreigners seem to think everyone here is the same peoples with the exact same culture and cultural practices. The SA flag is just a country flag. Using it as the only flag to represent a language or culture of a people in South Africa just doesn't cut it.
For example, a Zulu would not want his culture and people to be represented by cultural flag that has Xhosa symbolism on it. Because they aren't the same peoples.
So each peoples should have a flag that represents them. The Griekwa Colourds have a flag of their own. The White Boer Afrikaners have a flag of their own. Why does it matter? Because we aren't all the same people. We are all a South African people but we are also each a seperate people from eachother.
this is a super interesting video!! i feel like the most important factor in these language flags is communicating information at a glance; while inclusivity is incredibly important especially in a postcolonial context, these flags are designed to be instantly understood by the largest number of people. you could definitely argue that these flags being changed to more inclusive options would help make the diversity of a language speakers more widely known, there are more factors at play in the choice of these flags. mainly readability on a small screen, small icon or at lower resolutions.
English - 1
Portuguese - 4
T. Chinese - HK flag
S. Chinese - Mainland China
Afrikaans - orange S.Africa
Frisian - 3
The Hindi Urdu section is full of misinformation. All 3 of Hindi, Urdu and Hindustani originated in what today is India. The local languages in Pakistan are Punjabi, Baloch, Pashtun, Saraiki, etc. Urdu was imposed there because before independence, it was supposed to be the language of Muslims in the region, and the person who pushed for it, Jinnah, could not even properly speak it.
Bruh 💀💀💀
I think, when youre choosing a language, they should use the flag that represents the dialect which the thing is actually in.
For example, if i am downloading an app that offers me english, but the english used is American English, then it should have an American flag. If the english used is standard british english, or Australian english, or indian English, it should use those flags.
Do you understand how many resources & how much time it takes to translate & localize all of that content to each of those dialects?
8:43 actually, there are more cantonese speakers who lives in mainland than hong kong. Also all Chinese languages uses the exact same writing, which is why the languages are often just considered dialects
Changing the music to suit each language is a nice touch.
As a Cornishman and a Welsh speaker, I would rather the English flag be used to represent the English language.
It's the Union Flag because it's a Union of distinct nations, it's respectful to us to not assume English is all British people's default or first language.
I completely agree. It is called "English" for a reason.
Agreed. And as a French-speaking Québécois, I would also object to using the maple leaf on some made-up flag representing English.
I'm English and passionate for the English flag to be shown. The UK flag is contextually used wrong a lot of the time unfortuantely.
Interesting video. Why did you exclude Spanish? French?
There is 19 countries besides Spain who speak spanish as a primary language, and since vox and other spain parties have some interestingly diminishing opinion in this, and since latinoamericans dont have a conjoined flag or symbols, i think is for the better.
I always bring up the example of Spain and Spanish. Not only is Spanish spoken in many countries other than Spain, Spain itself has many other languages other than Spanish
If there's got to be a symbol instead of just the language name, maybe something relating to its literature. So for Spanish, something representing Don Quijote
Cammon... Portuguese is a Brazilian language at this point 😂,
Even the young in Portugal are learning Brasilian Portuguese because the Games, Movies, CZcamsrs, TV novels, etc all in Brazilian Portuguese 😊
I don’t recommend your approach at all.
1. Chinese born in china , Arabic born in Saudi Arabia. The whole world uses English based on your logic this is should be English’s flag 🌍
2. Most of Your schemes are not thoughtful, for example the English you presented looks like the American flag is eating the British one
3. A country’s population is not the only factor to represent a Language, we got Origin, history, population, Culture …etc
I like your idea but you exscute it badly
I am just saying my opinion, I do apologieses if I sounded harsh
The squid eating flag looks one sided but the worst part of all I found was neither flag represents the English language. It should be this one, this is _the_ flag 🏴
That's just the tip of the iceberg. There are far more problems. Using flags, to represent languages, is a fools game. It makes no sense, and has tons of unsolvable problems.
There are no ways to solve the flag problems. Just don't use flags.
Así es, no todos hablamos inglés, en lo personal NO me interesa aprenderlo, somos 600 millones de Hispanos y eso es suficiente.
Languages should simply be indicated with their name, in those languages themselves. There is no need for flags; if you do not understand what is written, you obviously have no reason to select it.
How does this work on language learning apps then
There actually are some cases, where you have reason to select it, even though you don't know it ...but I wholeheartedly agree.
@@jinjunliu2401 On a language learning app, you use the names, in the language that the app is in. How is that not glaringly obvious?
@@ZarlanTheGreen I guess he meant the course for the language you learn, not the app's usage language. Because there you usually would see flags for quicker navigation instead of just a written name in the usage language.
@@tovarishcheleonora8542 ... Yes, obviously. And that's what my response *_obviously_* responded to. How could it possibly mean anything else? It makes absolutely no kind of sense, unless it was doing so.
I love how the video game Celeste manages this. They simply use the flag of the specific region of the language, which depends often on the translator. As such, as weird as it looks, English is represented by a Canadian flag, because the creators come from here.
I think a flag with all 5 main English countries combined would be good but the one on the vid misses NZ
Brazillians can't understand Portuguese people the same way Americans can understand English people. It is actually much, much harder, and it goes both ways, even though we DO understand each other, it is very unconfortable to, let's say, play a game in Portuguese Portuguese. I would prefer if, in this case, the country flag was used instead of the "language flag", as it already is done.
And what about the Namibian and Botswanan Afrikaans speaking people?
There are probably more Afrikaans-speaking people in Australia than in Botswana.
Dude, there’s like four of them in total. In Botswana at least. Namibia is a different story but it’s already such an unpopulated country.
I know that Aus, NZ, UK all probably have more Afrikaans people in them than Botswana or Zimbabwe but I'm just saying Afrikaans is not only a South African language
I looked it up and it's true. About 50000 vs 8000.
It used to be part of South Africa so not very different as far as I know. Never been to Namibië but almost never seen any Afrikaners from Namibië who is proud of their culture and traditions
That Frisian flag looks realy cool combining all elements of the individual flags
I like the idea of a combined flag but it should be diagonally from top left to bottom right
We shouldn't use any flag for languages as the overlap will be pointless. Also, scripts should be separate with language as we mostly read on websites.
you can't overcome the allure of visual representation
@@FlagAnthem then something representing the script should be used, maybe.
I'm kinda suprised that the Esperanto flag, one of the earliest explicitely language flag, was not here, and that it doesn't generate controversy or division within esperantophones.
The mystery about Esparanto, is that people who claim to like languages, like Esparanto. Anyone who likes Esparanto, hates languages, and they should just be honest about it.
@@ZarlanTheGreen What? That's not true in the slightest. I like Esperanto the same way I like all languages of the world the same, I'm fighting for my minority native tongue just as much. Bad faith, bad faith everywhere on your part.
@@Game_Hero The whole point of Esparanto, is for people to learn Esparanto, so that they don't have to bother learning any other languages. It is simplified to remove all the depth and richness (and I'm not talking about irregular conjugations) of natural languages, it has no culture...
(also, a language made to be the universal language, but it's completely European-based, but that's a different issue)
There is no reason to waste time and resources, on learning Esparanto, rather than learning a real language ...or a funny and quirky conlang, that has unusual and interesting aspects, like Toki Pona. (not a sensible language, to use as a main language, but one that could be interesting, on a hobby level)
@@ZarlanTheGreen "real language" the condescendence is real with this one and with all the artistic content made for it. Of course it has "no culture" that's the whole point : making a neutral international lingua franca without favouring some countries at the expenses of others. South America has european official languages, Africa has european official languages, parts of Asia have european official languages, might as well make one that doesn't favour anglo-centrism and anglo cultural imperialism since everyone is ok with speaking an european language like english. It's to prevent the current anglo-centrism that favours english-speaking countries right now.
@@ZarlanTheGreenalmost none of this is true 🙃 The point of Esperanto is to provide a neutral lingua franca, that is easy to learn and it can also be a starting point of learning the languages it is based on. I'm not sure what richness means to you, but Esperanto does have its particular ways of expression, as any pther language, and it also evolves continually thanks to its community. Esperanto does have a culture, the culture of esperantists and there are original artistic works produced in esperanto, as well as communities of speakers.
The eurocentrism is true though.
I think the only purpose of this “language flag” thing is that it should be convenient for people to recognise the language by the flag.
It’s not about being politically correct or including all the nations speaking a specific language, etc.
Seeing American or British flag representing a language, anyone would straightaway know it’s English. Seeing Portugal or Brazilian flag anyone know it’s Portuguese. And so on. It’s just convenient, simple is that.
I don't think we should even use language flags BUT I have to admit I really liked #3 from the English flag choices. Visually very interesting and I like how it included Canada and the oceanic countries.
*Exactly…how in the world are we going to represent the languages (& scripts!) of 1.4 billion Indians:*
🇮🇳 हिन्दी
🇧🇩 বাংলা
🇵🇰 اُردو
🇮🇳 తెలుగు
🇮🇳 தமிழ்
🇹🇭 ภาษาไทย
🇮🇳 ગુજરાતી
🇮🇳 ಕನ್ನಡ
🇲🇲 မြန်မာစကား
🇮🇳 ଓଡ଼ିଆ
🇮🇳 മലയാളം
🇮🇳 ਪੰਜਾਬੀ
🇱🇦 ພາສາລາວ
🇰🇭 ភាសាខ្មែរ
🇱🇰 සිංහල
🇧🇹 ལྷ་སའི་སྐད་
Just like that, but maybe just drop the flags altogether; they are just distracting from the text.
I cant think of anything where "dad" or ḍ in the arabic flag could stand for so i doubt its an actual flag for arabic.
I think using eyn (ع) is a better option
@@YAWSSSSSS yeah obviously. Like wtf is the other even support to mean. It just reminds me of theف for farsi
لعبة الضاد (lughat al dad) is actually used to refer to the Arabic language.
Bro really forgot about Spanish which would have been way more interesting than the others on the list as it has more countries with actual fluent speakers
I know the combined flag of every English speaking country is completely impractical but it’s also glorious and I love it. Also the Barbados trident in the middle of the Union Jack looks badass.
I f-ing despise language flags, similarly to how I despise the idea of language defining the national identity/affiliation of a person. The same idea makes people believe that Russian speakers in my country-I am from Ukraine-consider themselves Russian.
Wow, you're just one of those who hate the Russian minority. Based on what you said.
For English it should be the flag of England (not the Union flag), for Portugese it should just be Portugal's flag, for Korean it should be South Korea's flag (the flag of united Korea before the war was essentially South Korea's flag today), Spanish should just be Spain's flag.
Why not Castile‘s flag? Spanish is castellano and Spain has several regional languages.
Why should it be Portugal's flag when the content is usually not in the European variety or aimed at them
@@AChildressABright Agreed. Spanish, or Castilian, is native to Castile. I wish the term "Spanish" in reference to the language did not exist. Calling Castlian "Spanish" is like calling English "British", which no one does.
@@FOLIPE Portugese language comes from Portugal that's why. It's widely understood across Brazil, Angola, Mozambique, etc. that the language comes from there so it the flag of Portugal representing the language
As a Brazilian, if I see the Flag of Portugal to select Portuguese language.. I probably will not click 😂, i would think the company translated for Portugal and not for Brazil 😢... Then why they are seling it in Brazil?
Because theres diferences between Brazilian PT and Portugal PT, And yes, we notice it is Portuguese from portual in the first words we read in the product.
So, probably when the person added Brazil flag, it was targeting Brazilian users/ costumers.
And it's normal some companies translate to Portuguese and they intend to sell the product only to costustumers in Portugal, in this case is Ok to put Portugal flag 😊
English 1. PT 2. The proposal for Afrikaans using orange in ZAF flag is awesome. I like the proposal for Frisian. We need some FR, Dutch (with BE), and Spanish.
Here's my thoughts for the English speakers flag, I say the flag of England. It was invented here in England but the Union Jack or the US are the two I see the most often.
I understand using a certain flag if the service offering the language caters heavily into local dialect and terminology from that English speaking country. But if universally speaking, for most commodities the English flag, not the UK flag (not to get confused) should be the flag standard.
Urdu originates in North-Central India so let's use the Indian flag for it. (I'm Pakistani don't hate me)
Nobody should be getting mad at you if anything this is the British’s fault ❤
@@YAWSSSSSSNot really our fault. The solution is as straight forward, use the place of the language origin and it works best for everyone.
We should use Pakistani flag for Punjabi
@@brad5426 it's the fault of the founders of Pakistan who ignored all the indigenous languages of Pakistan and preferred Urdu
@@Moon-initiative agreed and google translate should have Shahmukhi not Gurmukhi, or both!
Representing languages with flags is a symptom of nationalism (in the literal sense, not assaulting immigrants sense). Nations are a fairly recent invention - languages aren't. In order to create a nation you need a set of characteristics, languages being immediately appropriated by nation building efforts when they began. That's why "X-speaking minorities" were and are such a big deal when waging war (whether it's German speakers in Czechia or Russian speakers in Ukraine.)
I think it's in the best interest of everyone to just not use flags for languages - we have a great symbol for every language already: its name in that language. A graphic symbol is cool to have (especially for sign) but all of them usually reference national symbols and it ends up being the same thing as using national flags but with a few extra steps
You're overcomplicating things that not even complicated.
@@tovarishcheleonora8542 If basic political concepts are overcomplicated to you, I'm sorry
@@tovarishcheleonora8542 If you don't think it's complicated, that's because you are completely ignorant.
If you absolutely need a graphical icon to represent a language as a symbol, then the national flag of the nation where the language originated before any empire or diaspora is the obvious choice.
The exception to this is obviously if a language has dialects writen in different alphabets (Serbian vs. Croatian) or if there are multiple dialects with significant enough spelling variations to warrant using a different national flag for each dialect. Since China considers Cantonese a seperate dialect of Chinese from Mandarin, using the Hong Kong flag seems appropriate.
But the reality is that the market will make all of these choices on its own.
English : 2 (but I would edit this so the canadian's leaf is bigger)
Portugese : I would make a design so there's the brazilian flag on the left and the portugese flag on the right, they would be linked by a shade of green
Chinese : Simplified : China, Traditional: Taiwan
Afrikaans : 1 or 4 (but most likly 1)
Frisian : 3
This 🏴 is English flag.
1:45. Right but not all those countries have English as their default native tough as in the core Anglosphere countries. Also I would argue that on the map of the Anglosphere to put Ireland in a separate category as English is the dominant language in Ireland but it’s not the language used by the founders of the modern state of Ireland(or at least they would not want to be associated with the English) unlike the US,Canada,Australia, and New Zealand which recognize their English founding roots.
As a non British, non US english speaker, if you go to the effort to include the US and the UK but not the other major english speaking countries like Australia and New Zealand, it is just silly and lazy. I would much rather the english flag than either the UK or the American flag
The best flags for those languages are:
🇸🇸 English
🇲🇴 Portuguese
🇰🇲 Arabic
🇫🇯 Hindustani
🇺🇿 Korean (for the koryo-saram) or 🇰🇵 if you need a country where it's an official language
🇸🇬 Chinese
🇳🇦 Afrikaans
English (traditional) should be represented by the union jack, English (simplified) should be represented by the USA
Except in point of fact, Appalachian English is actually the closest living dialect in terms of phonetics to Elizabethan English, making it more traditional than any living British dialect.
St. George's flag.
@@aidanking4197that is not true, American English in all its forms has retained some old features of the language and lost others for example:
1.Old features retained "Rhoticity" pronouncing the "R" sound in words like "hard, car, farm etc and use of old vocabulary such Fall instead autumn.
2. Features lost the use of words such thou, thee, ye, thy etc and pronunciation of words such as questions as kwe-si-yon instead kwe-shin.
These not all the examples of the features lost and retained just a few of them.
My main point is American and British English have both lost and retained old features of the language just different features.
As for the claim of American English being more traditional the vedios on CZcams talking about original pronunciation from the Elizabethan era using shakespeare's plays, that form English seemed to be more similar to the West country accent in the south-east of England(Hagrid from harry potter's accent or The Pirate accent in pirate movies) and the Irish accent.
@@mzekelosebeni8989 They're saying "Appalachian English", not "Standard American English", which are 2 different dialects. What is true for American English might not be true in Appalachian English.
@@alfaseng I think u should read again what I typed in the first paragraph i typed "American English in all its forms" which means I am not talking exclusively about standard/General American English I was talking about all accents and dialects in America, including the Appalachian.
And could u please read everything I wrote maybe u will understand the point I was making.
My best recommendations on this subject, as over the years I have stumbled upon this problem multiple times.
0. I know colours are nice but do you really want to get into the mud for them?
1. Avoid using national flags at all costs when there are multiple countries involved
2. Use the colors of the original historical flag of the country of origin.
3. Use a simplified structure. I.e. max 3 stripes, no emblems, etc
4. At the center, in a clearly standard background,
the ISO code for those who use latin alphabet or some local equivalent (like the Arabic in this video)
5. Remember that the purpose of the flag or icon is first for the target group to feel identified and second for others to identify them.
Just my two cents
If you went "Full New Zealand" where're the sheep, kiwis and Pākehā?
American flag for English, Brazilian flag for Portuguese, Mexican flag for Spanish.
Europe is a dying old age home. Lets just put it out of its misery.
Cruel. All the flags should be represented by their country or region of origin. The St. George's flag for English, the Portuguese flag for Portugal and the Castilian flag for Castilian (Spanish).
@@noahbrock349 Move out grandpa, the kids have evolved your tired language away from your old, tired dialects
As an American I think English should be represented with the UK flag because that's where it originated.
English existed before the UK
Shouldnt it be the English flag then? white background with red cross
Yeah no it should be the English (England) flag not the United Kingdom flag.
The U.K flags represents for constituent countries in one. Two of which have their own native languages, Scotland with Scottish Gaelic and Wales with Welsh. Arguable even Northern Ireland with Irish Gaelic
@@PlaylistProleteriat I would agree if you want to be specific but if I was just thinking of national flags
No it should be with our flag because we have more speakers and because it’s funny
I don't understand why all the comments are so negative. When I read the title I wondered what the hell it was and why it was necessary, but watching the video, I actually learned quite a few things. Urdu and Hindi being the same - I even checked that when I happened to be in an Indian store. The man said that it's true, they can more or less understand each other. That was news to me. So as for bad research, I really don't get it. I think it was done well. And as for the need for flags, I understand the reasoning. I have to look for the Dutch flag while I live in Flanders, Belgium. Personally I would just do away with country flags and create some symbol that become known over time. EN for English NE for Dutch Du for German ES for Spanish, the shortest version of Arabic in Arabic all in a circle or such. Then there's no need for complicated flags that might leave out some countries, because seriously: what will you do with Spanish? So many countries and thus flags. I understand the idea for this video but flags are too complicated - they should create easier symbols. I know a man from Bosnia and he told me that they all speak the same language, some written differently. I tried to find a Bosnian dictionary but I had to do with a Croatian one. But I could only do that because he told me it's basically the same. It's an interesting idea, but Flags, I think, are not the answer.
Ah ty for including the genius Limmy
Flags are use to more easily identify languages within a list, for that the most importan considerations are to be consistent and to be easily recognizable. Which means that we shouldn't try to change any of the ones that are already widely used.
When used in GUIs, most flags become barely recognisable anyway, especially ones with more finicky details. ISO 639 language codes are probably better, although I think it would be nice to give the letters and/or their backgrounds colours frequently associated with the language (like Arabic green, or Dutch orange). They should still be legible to colour-blind users and so it would be fine for English and French, for example, to share red, white and/or blue in their design.
I remember a few years ago I often saw the flag of the Arab Revolt against the Ottoman Empire as the flag of the Arabic language, this seemed to have been common as a lot of websites and folders used it. A few years later I saw the flag of the Arab League replace it, then the flags of random Arabic speaking countries. I wonder why they stopped using the flag of the Arab Revolt as that was the first pan-Arab flag, or at least pan-Arabian.
Vlag 3 vir Afrikaans is uitstekend mooi. Great vexological job. Baie dankbaar dat iemand deeglik oor Afrikaans op CZcams gesels. Voel sentimenteel om te hoor oorsee se mense is ook deur ons taal geïnteresseerd.