Kirk was born in space in the Kelvin timeline because the stress of the situation sent his mother into early labor. If it wasn't for the arrival of the Narada, the USS Kelvin probably would have returned to Earth in time for him to be born planetside. The appearance of the temporal wormhole is what caused the timelines to split, which preceded Jim's birth.
Thank you! Yes, the temporal wormhole and the arrival of a Romulan ship from several centuries in the relative future and this ship then causing the destruction of Vulcan and near extinction of the Vulcan species, not to mention Spock Prime also coming into the new timelien branch and meeting his younger self is what created a different timeline! I don't know why people get so bizarrely hung up on Kirk's birth (shouldnt the fact his father died too early have far more impact on young Kirk?) that they seem to think if they spin a way to explain Kirk's birth in space away they can "prove" the Kelvinverse is not a different timeline? Huh?
My thoughts on Scotty forgetting Kirk was dead. Kirk’s body was never found at the time of the Enterprise B incident. Perhaps Scotty never gave up hope that Jim Kirk was just missing and would somehow return.
@@emsleywyatt3400 That and also all the alcohol. Its been a while since I've seen this episode but I believe there was a line about him being upset about the future only having synthol.
@@emsleywyatt3400 how does transporter even work? does it kill the original and create a copy? can it clone people? can it be used as a weapon to take apart other spaceships? can it replicate objects? They don't seem to explain any of it. So much for science fiction.
@@CoolGobyFish They do explain it. The transporter deconstructs objects at a subatomic level and analyzes how they go together storing the pattern in a data buffer. The ship has pads on the hull that beam the deconstructed particle data to a point where it is then reconstructed. This is why transporters can't beam through shields and get less effective when certain things are in the way. There is definitely an argument to be made that its killing the original and creating a copy, which is why people like Pulaski and Bones probably don't trust it. And it can definitely be used as a weapon or to make copies, as we've seen both things happen in Star Trek on screen. The ability of a transporter to deconstruct, store, and reconstruct something is limited by its power and buffer size, which is why they have industrial transporters for larger objects. So, it's unlikely they could pick apart a ship since the buffer would be filled and the energy needed would be too high, though with a big enough buffer it would be possible to transport a whole ship (this has also been done on screen).
@@QuintusAntonious They are most definitely kill the original since new atoms are used to reconstruct them. With this tech you can create an entire army of Picards or Kirks.
you forgot about Spot. Data's cat was male, called "he" and "him" up until "Force of Nature", the fist time they say she, and has kittens in "Genesis" (it's hard to even remember this episode...). BUT... in the final season of Picard, when Data is giving his memories to Lore, Data clearly says "he". And yes, I have a cat named Spot
Anyone else wish there was a crossover with this cat's decendants & Cat from Red Dwarf😁 I know, they are going overboard now, but I'd like to see that!
It's not all that surprising that Spock never mentioned Burnham. Spock didn't even bother telling anyone that one of the most well known, influential and well-respected Federation ambassadors was his father until he was standing right in front of him being greeted by Kirk in "Journey to Babel". Spock also never revealed his relation to Sybok until AFTER Kirk and co were captured by him.
To be fair, if my brother founded a cult built on the belief that God was on the other side of the galaxy waiting on an Uber, I wouldn't bring him up much either.
@@ignaciomoreno9655 There was a specific reason they had to erase her from all public records and never mention her. If you didn't see the ending I won't say why - but it was very direct and extreme that telling anyone about her would endanger her and the crew of that whole ship.
@@johnkim163 because how we do things now is exactly how they’ll be done in 400 years, right? I think it’s funny when people want to criticize Star Fleet for not being exactly like today’s militaries. It’s a made-up story, they can have different rules if they want to.
The El-Aurian refugees coming to Earth in the 23rd century undoubtedly brought knowledge of the Borg, I just assumed Starfleet felt the Borg were to remote in the Delta Quadrant to be a threat and back shelved the Borg. But the Hansen's probably thought it was more interesting than Starfleet did.
The thinking at SFHQ was probably something more along the lines of: A hostile species capable of wiping out a warp-capable civilization? Sure. One that could challenge Starfleet fresh off the victory in the war with the Klingons? Surely not. Especially since these traumatized refugees were "undoubtedly" overstating the threat posed. Until Q introduced the Enterprise-D to the Borg, Starfleet was convinced that they were technological peers, with superior capability, to anyone near them. That's why they shifted to fewer, larger ships with greater patrol/exploration regions.
I think it's a case of both the El-Laurians and a certain mission from Enterprise's second season(which shows Cochrane had knowledge of them after Lily returned)
true and latestly at that moment starfleet intelligence must have put one and one together. but they weren't allowed to go public with it to not disturb the timeline. only certified researchers (like the hansons) knew about it. but the hansons didn't wanted to wait until picard finds the borh officialky, so they went against section 31 and made their rogue attempt to find the borg.
It's also possible Starfleet just thought they were a cultural boogeyman or the El-Aurians were misunderstanding something else while the Hansen's were the equivalent of 24th century Bigfoot hunters.
That is the canon explanation, yeah. Starfleet had heard about the Borg from El-Aurians and other species, but had no solid data. The Hansens got the green light and funding from the Federation Council on Exobiology to try to find and study the Borg, but of course never returned with the information they gathered. So when Q threw the Enterprise D's crew into an encounter with them, it was the first official and recorded encounter Starfleet had with the Borg. There's obviously First Contact and the "Regeneration" episode from Enterprise to consider, but the only records from that time were Zephram Cochrane's drunken ranting, and Archer's crew didn't know what they were encountering.
Regarding Scotty and his thinking that Kirk came to rescue him in the Enterprise - I always loved a line from one of William Shatner's post-Generations novels which was said, I think, by Counselor Troi to Spock which explained it which was something along the lines of - "It wasn't what he knew, it was what he hoped". Now I don't personally consider those novels canon but it is still a valid and quite touching idea I think.
I never assumed that Scotty was being literal. He didn't assume that Kirk came to get him in the original Enterprise - he was just being hyperbolic. It was never a problem for me.
@@vic5015 a decade? lol you must be a zoomer Generations came out 2 years after relics. and at first it was planned that spock and mccoy would be next to kirk in the startup, but kelley was already too ill for filming and nimoy didn't wanted to just have this one scene. so kirk was accomondated by scott and chekov (takei and kirk would have never done it together, they hate each other, and nicchols didn't wanted to do movies anymore)
It never really concerned me. Kirk was famous for suddenly pulling victory from defeat. I think Mr. Scott assuming Kirk's death was suddenly revealed to be a ruse and him returning home victorious again after apparantly dying was equal parts wishful thinking and habit. He'd need assurances before coming to the conclusion that Jim Kirk's luck had finally run out.
My own head cannon is that the Kelvin was headed back to earth so that its first officer's son would be born in Iowa, but the ship got redirected because of the Narada.
When I tell people "Im from X-city." it is because I grew up there. The fact I was born in Y-city, is ignored by me as I have no memory or attachment to it. I think we can understand Kirk's comment in this light.
@@6XGate that’s what I came here to say. I’m guessing they were at a loss for a 10th item and knew that 9 wouldn’t do. “Let’s give the nerds plenty to gripe about…” Me: “You rang?”
My favorite trek fan theory is that all the episodes are holosuite reenactments based on the accounts of crew members. This is often why we hear them recording logs. Because of this, all canon discrepancies are due to misspoken or misremembered details of the logs or different levels of detail resolution on the holosuite program of the reenactment. Some episodes are from bootleg holosuite dealers and dont even recount real events (episodes you hate are no longer canon if it feels better that way).
Or, and hear me out here, it is multiple TV shows & movies made over multiple decades by multiple people with various degrees of talent and dedication. I know, crazy theory but there it is.
Thank you Ellie! As my uncle used to say: "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story". Great countdown and awesome presentation as always! Love you guys! 😊
The Borg changes were explained between First Contact and Enterprise. They sent a message in the 22nd century to the Delta Quadrant allowing earlier incursions and Seven's parents to investigate.
They would have also heard about them from the El Aurians who got saved by the Enterprise B fleeing from them which was released before the VOY episode was released
We never heard of Spock having *any* siblings until it was convenient for him to have a brother for Star Trek V Final Frontier. So having Burnham be his sister wasn’t too big of a deal.
Trek has always had a very flexible attitude to canon. With all the time travel though, I reckon inconsistencies from episode to episode is built right into the premise. I mean, who's to say the Romulans or Klingons aren't changing things all the time? Who's to say we see all the time travel shenanigans anyway? We may only see the times it gets put rights. What about all the other ships having time adventures? Maybe they're not as good as setting everything back on track again.
For the bit where Kirk wasn't born in Iowa any more, we don't even need that. Enterprise was set before TOS, but apparently had technology that didn't exist yet in TOS. TOS, The Journey Home, TNG, Voyager and Picard (that I remember off the top of my head) all had time travel to 20th/21st century Earth. TNG even had time travel to 19th century, and one of the time travel storylines involved a 20th century business person exploiting technology from a future time-travel craft. There's plenty of reason within Star Trek stories themselves to believe there were many timelines in play from the 19th or 20th century onwards, and it presumably wouldn't take that much for Kirks mum to give birth on a starship vs. in Iowa. With appologies to those who believe in fate, if we assume chaos theory applies in the Star Trek universe, it would be surprising any of the major Star Trek characters were even born in most timelines - there's more than enough time for tiny differences to have led to different generations living different lives, having different children etc. For example if the flap of a butterflies wings can affect the path of a storm some time later, the arrival of time-travelling humanoids who just by breathing have a greater effect on the atmosphere would certainly have changed all the major world weather events (while leaving the overall climate unchanged), which would have affected where millions of people go and when, who they meet, who they talk to and what conversations they get inspired by, and yada yada - and that's within the first few years after the time travellers came and went. Still, Star Trek has only observed a few timelines - it can easily be picking and choosing from infinite timeline options due to the feedback effects of past changes affecting the future and then affecting how the past was changed. And this is a great excuse for Strange New Worlds to not treat cannon as dogma.
I always blame it on Q. Who knows what Q, or any of the other Q's, did before Q first appeared on TNG. Any of the Q could've been making changes to the universe and that's how/why it changed. It's also a convenient excuse to not have to follow canon. And why ENT had technology TOS didn't.
In defense of number 10, maybe Kirk's mom didn't give birth in space in the og timeline and the romulans going back made her give birth early, it may be a stretch but it makes as much scense as it making the enterprise go from looking like a play pen, to an apple store
@@Lordoftheapes79 Premature labor caused by stress and (potentially) the Kelvin being delayed from returning to Earth due to an astronomical anomaly are perfectly reasonable consequences of the divergent timeline.
@@griffinsummoner I actually hinted this being the case in the season finale of strange new worlds' first season. As Kirk talks to Pike in that episode he mentions his dad being on the Kelvin before, and then it fades out ashe mentions Tarsus.
@@griffinsummoner that's all well and good, but they people that paid to have the statue built too commemorate "the future birthplace of James T. Kirk" were a bit insulted by their attempt to rewrite the history. It's easy to see it that way now, because they went back to the original timeline, but back then they were actually trying to completely restart the franchise. Needless to say, that didn't go over well.
We shouldn't put too much weight on what Kirk said in Star Trek IV. After all: He was talking to a woman 200 years from his past, trying to get her help him with his mission all while not revealing too much about the future. In this context his best bet was to keep things as simple and believable as possible - even if that meant being less than accurate. With that in mind, the line from "Voyage home" doesn't contradict the idea that James T. Kirk was born on the USS Kelvin, grew up there with his mother while his father was still serving in Starfleet and eventually followed in his father's footsteps.
Kahn was given computer access to the Enterprise's specs In sick bay in The Space Seed & could've recognized Chekov from looking through the crew manifest.
The Enterprise couldn't be practically salvaged to be returned to the fleet, as in return to duty. What Geordi did was over decades, and as mentioned in the 3rd season of Picard, the Enterprise-D was "outdated" by the current Starfleet metrics. As to the "NX-01A", well, the registry in "Enterprise" was for the United Earth ship. As to the line of Scotty saying that Jim Kirk pulled the Enterprise out of mothballs, the actual line was, "I bet Jim Kirk himself hauled the old girl out of mothballs. . ." It's obviously a whimsical statement, as Scotty can clearly see that some time has passed since he stepped into the transporter. Nonetheless, there have been several occasions where Kirk was presumed dead, but miraculously came back from death in Scotty's time.
The Federation literally redesigned their ships to fix the sub space problem. I didn't think I was that knowledgeable in Trek but I thought what culture would know more than me.
About that Warp 5 speed limit I always explained its absence as misinterpretation of the research data. Initially everybody thought warp drive damages all subspace, but in reallity it may have only damaged the subspace in that specific region (for reasons unknown)
well, they said for movie 8, that starfleet has found new geometries to counter the rippling effects. it seems as if they then didn't needed the tilting nacelles anymore
@@acmenipponair I think that was some background information from the writers. Always sounded like a bad excuse to me. But as long as it isn't said on screen it is not canon and we can make up our own solution. 😁
This reminds me of an answer Babylon 5 creator J. Michael Strasczynski once gave when he was asked how fast ships on that show travel in hyperspace: "They move at the speed of plot."
yes, warp speed is an acronym for we are running plot speed. can be warp 2 or 9 and you sometimes need a week to the next planet or get from the neutral zone to earth in 2h
Although never mentioned by name, weren't the Borg encountered by Captain Archer in Enterprise? I seem to recall that he ascertained they were heading to the Delta quadrant. So it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to think that starfleet knows of a strange bio/mechanical species that has a connection to the Delta quadrant
The Kirk one I figure he was raised in Iowa plenty of people in the military are born in what ever base where ever their parents happen to be but it doesn’t preclude them still being from wherever they are ultimately raised. At least that’s what I figure happened
I seem to recall from VOY "Dark Frontier" that Starfleet had heard whispered rumors of a race called "the Borg" and an admiral hired the Hansens to research it, kind of like in Babylon 5 Earthforce had heard rumors of the Minbari but had never encountered them until they went looking for them, leading to an equally disastrous first contact. The difference between the two was that had someone else made contact with the Minbari it might not have led to a massive war, whereas the Borg are automatically everyone's enemy (unless they decide you're not distinctive enough to bother with).
For the whispers, you also have Guinan's people who fled to the Federation and, probably brought stories of the Borg with them. The Federation just didn't know what the Borg were or where they existed other than in the direction of the El Aurian homeworld. The Hansens were chasing rumors there...
Yeah, they very clearly say that they were chasing rumors, and as they got closer they learned more definitive facts. We are also seeing them after they have been studying the Borg for a whole, and are doing so similarly to how Jane Goodall studied chimps in the wild. It is entirely conceivable that they didn't send any updates or data home, believing they would be able to write some award winning papers about their discoveries once they got back, and not wanting anyone else to scoop their work. And once they followed through the transwarp tunnel, they were out of communication range, any way. This doesn't feel like breaking Canon at all.
@@AndrewD8Red to be fair, the Minbari kinnda brought it on themselves. I'd have to go back and watch that movie again, but I'm fairly certain that the Minbari ship the Prometheus encountered not only had their gun ports open right at the start(syupid thing to do in any encounter), and had their stealth systems activated(again, stupid thing to do). The Promethius, when it couldn't tell if the weapons were activated or not because of the Minbari stealth system, responded by opening fire.
@@GBRyker61 It had worked for a thousand years. It was still a mistake but also most other races were properly deferential. Also it seems it was JMS major stab that Starfleet and Trek were ultimately right. You do first contact, you don't fire first. The ship you are entrusted with, your crew who trusts you with their lives, their loved ones who hope you bring them home safe, none of it matters relative to the mission.
In Enterprise, Dr. Phlox has a tribble and mentions that they breed very rapidly. But in Short Treks, Edward alters tribbles to be born pregnant because they breed very slowly, limiting their use as a food source.
I like to think that since Enterprise was affected by the temporal cold war, any canon discrepancies could be due to time travel. Let's be honest, rapid breeding tribbles spread so quickly that it's no surprise that one of them would somehow end up catching a ride with a time agent.
Khan was reviewing the ships records while in sickbay, he could have seen Chekhov’s profile and remembered his face. Also Chekhov could have been on leave when space seed occurred, and heard about the Botney Bay when he returned.
But that was in respond to "You are from outer space", implying he is born and raised in Iowa but only works in outer space. If they intend him to be born in Outer Space, he should have respond with "yeah but I was raised in Iowa.
For the Dauntless, the thing that makes nothing to do with the normal naming scheme is that it's a NX prototype ship. Expiramental ships seem to use the lettering for major iterations of the design prior to the transition to the standard designs for the ship. Meaning that there is, probably, a Protostar with the A or B letter on it after the first one disappeared on its mission there. Also, there are other examples of ships with the same name and different registries that don't have a letter assigned to them such as the Defiant (The one lost in TOS and discovered by the mirror universe has a registry and Siskos ship has a different registry but the same name and no letter)
My problem is that we know what the NX-01 was not the lettering because frankly MOST ships have had other ship names without any letter added. It was to the credit of the Enterprise crew that they earned what seemed to be a singular honor that no other crew had earned (and frankly feel they've gotten a little generous in modern Trek with handing out). Just would be crazy for a ship to be labeled NX-01-A Dauntless and not more be made of it's naming than that in light of Ent. Obviously didn't exist when the episode featured but it is a little wild they went with that for Enterprise...could have easily named it NX-17 and called it a day. Humans got to the moon on Apollo 11 launched on a Saturn 5. Not exactly some kind of terrible shame that the Enterprise wasn't the very first prototype ship of Starfleet of even her intended class.
The same name different registry is a normal process, both in modern navies and in Start Trek. The reuse of a registry number with a letter designation is the exception and is supposed to be fairly rare denoting a particularly storied history or notable contribution.
@@ACtheLegend It was in a book that Roddenberry wrote. It's never been stated onscreen though. Being "from" Iowa doesn't have to mean he was born there - just raised.
absolutely true. we don't know where he was born. most likely his mother settled down with him and his younger brother in iowa and he saw his father in the original timeline on shore visits
The Voyager episode "Flashback" established that Tuvok's very first Starfleet posting was aboard the USS Excelsior under the command of Captain Hikaru Sulu. The episode revolves around Tuvok's experiences during the events of The Undiscovered Country. Yet, in the film, we never see Tuvok, despite the fact that he told Janeway that he was aboard for Khitomer battle.
@@SeekOutWisdom Or he was doing under cover work even then. In the case of the Enterprise B, pretending to be something other than a Vulcan. Edit: Or is Tuvok really of another race and only pretending to be Vulcan?
I think the bigger issue is the death of Dimitri Valtane before the Khitomer battle, despite him being seen alive at the end of the movie. Aldo, there's the condensing of the movie's events into two days rather than the two months stated in the movie. I guess Tuvok is an unreliable narrator. That whole episode reeks of, "Well, I suppose we should do something to mark the 30th", compared to the love and attention to detail of DS9's 'Trials and Tribble-ations'.
With number 9, the Borg, it makes perfect sense. The Enterprise-E destroys a sphere above Earth in the past resulting in Starfleet's first Borg encounter directly on Earth during the Enterprise show era. A little timeline mess never hurt anyone!
#5: Aside from the rec deck images of past Enterprises, the first-season TNG conference room featured gold-painted relief sculptures of the Enterprise aircraft carrier and Enterprise starships A-D. Again, no NX-01.
yes but that can be explained by the fact that its a display of the nc(c)s. not nx. also they already missed out the older enterprise aircrafr carrier from wwii
Also, don't forget that the Scotty error is only due to the bad management of Generations. Scotty's lines in Generations were actually intended for Spock but Leonard Nimoy refused to return. Had Spock been in the movie, the canon would have been fine. It is also why Chekov turned people into nurses and headed for sickbay as his lines were written for McCoy, but again DeForest Kelly also said no to the movie.
kelly is excused for being too ill in 1994 already and Spock didn't wanted to do it without mccoy. takei and kirk hate each other and nichols had retired from film making. so koenig had to take some time off from being bester in b5 for his last pavel chekov impression (in picard he speaks the grandson) and doohan supported him
One theory I read said that Scotty had seen Kirk cheat death so many times, that he didn't assume that the Enterprise B incident had REALLY killed Kirk no matter what the official record said. And as it turned out, he was RIGHT. Scotty's only mistake was assuming that Kirk made it back to life before he did.
You forgot in the classic series episode "Where No Man Has Gone Before", Spock was playing Tridimensional chess with Kirk and was grinning and almost laughing. And later in the episode "The Menagerie" which was re-edited from the unaired pilot "The Cage", Spock and Pike encounter a strange blue leaf plant that sings when the wind blows on its leaves. Spock and Pike hold the plants leaves and Spock breaks out with a huge SMILE. Emotions? Huh?
Kirk was born in Iowa / The (Kelvin) Timeline diverged only when the Narada showed up: Even assuming the Kelvin wasn't diverted to investigate the anomaly (which HAD appeared prior to the Narada, and AFAIK we don't have a canon answer to how much before), stress has been known to induce labor- and I think we can agree the situation with the Narada was stressful for those (originally) on the Kelvin. If Winona was in labor before the attack, methinks Captain Robau would've let (if not insisted) George be by her side instead of on the bridge to sniff around a spatial anomaly. (Then why was she in sickbay? Dude, you think the Federation doesn't have prenatal care?) The question would be, does Kirk have the same birthdate in both timelines?
Now, with the Hansens and the Borg- do we think those El-Aurian refugees didn't mention those weird cyborg things that decimated their civilization? Its possible Starfleet considered it somewhat bunk as they'd never see anything like that, and considered their ramblings some form of PTSD or the like. But it'd be weird if they were debriefed, and even if the information wasn't considered absolute, that it'd be sitting around somewhere. And the Hansens were like "hey, we'll go check... if you give us a ship."
"She can't be salvaged" - Picard ain't an Engineer. Plus, Geordi didn't salvage her to put her back into service, (which is likely what he meant); he wanted a museum piece.
The Dauntless was a FaaaaaaAAAAKE! So, its registry was irrelevant. We can see when an actual Starfleet experimental ship appears, the NX registry is much higher (even if they hadn't updated the hull to match the updated internal displays). Insofar as the crew not noticing, eh, it was probably one of the notes but not worth mentioning compared to the other facts on the ground.
*0:04** when you really think about it logically (or cynically if you prefer) that five year mission of StarFleet (LLC) would in reality only be two and a half years since it would take two and a half years to get to the furthest point as dictated by the mission mandate or itinerary before promptly turning around and heading back home without stopping along the way for souvenirs or shopping sprees*
Nah, the crew that are transferring to the Enterprise do so at the station closest to where the Enterprise will be assigned, as that is where the ship, and the mission, are starting from.
The borg raven thing I think how the Hansen's knew more about the borg prior to Q who was because they were talking with elurian survivors and others who had encountered the borg prior. The bog did use transwarp hubs to travel so contact would have occurred
@@funfact8660 don't forget section 31 it would also explain why future endeavours in the artic sphear remains were never explored further and unknown afterwards
Did Kirk ever say that he was born in Iowa or just that he was “from” Iowa? Because a kid born today on an overseas military base who was raised from childhood in Florida would still say that they were from Florida.
Riverside Iowa is having their annual trek fest this month and they got Chase Masterson, Leeta from DS9 will be here. June 23rd and 24th. I live in Iowa, have my whole life and have been to trek fest a few times. good stuff.
There is a comic book that came out maybe in the 80s 90s can't remember. The it takes place right after the Enterprise got refit and they're going on their next five year mission. Everybody was talking about the time they thought they were all going to die because of one mission or another. Chekov mentions the time when Khan took over the ship. Everybody looked at him in shock. One of them asked you were aboard when it happened? He replied he was just assigned to the Enterprise and he was assigned to the lower decks when it happened. It is also mentioned in another Star Trek novel that basically he was on one of the engineering decks as new officer assign to the Enterprise doing the graveyard shift.
I’m the original series, the Enterprise supposedly had a crew of over 400 people. Obviously every crew member couldn’t be in every episode. It only makes sense that Chekov was on board for a while before he became the alpha shift navigator.
MMMborg,by the Hansens, brilliant. And seeing Pulaski on screen as Ellie's voice over describes something that was never spoken of again had me Awwing - that was a bit cruel, but funny. That Co-op logo on the screen when the Borg cooperative was mentioned was on point. And Ellie does a great Checkov impression. Great editing not-Martin. I really want to see this Star Trek Cannon. Is it like the ornamental cannon from The Flashing Blade?
It was a Federation superweapon designed by a German and outfitted on Galaxy class vessels. It's known in some circles as _Pachelbel's Cannon in D_ I'll see myself out.
scotty not remembering kirks death could be attrributed to the minute degradation to his pattern in the buffer. maybe it had to do with memory pathways
4:14 - There's a simple explanation for that. Advancement in tech. When Picard stated the saucer couldn't be recovered, it was during a time where it might not have been possible. Considering the advancements made over the time after Generations, there's a good chance that not only were Starfleet able to recover the saucer from the planet, but allowed for Geordi to be able to restore the saucer back to full functionality. It's actually not quite different from modern advancements in technology within the medical field. Once upon a time, there wasn't an MRI machine (which was inspired by the tech in Star Trek as the inventor mention). Before that, X-Rays had to be used. Due to MRIs, we can get multiple images on three different planes to be able to see everything. The same is true with the automotive industry (prior to using automation, cars were built completely by hand. Now, it's half automated when it comes to certain things like welding, with hand building still being used to assemble the car, or at least it was the last time I read). So, it could be that when Picard stated that the D's saucer couldn't be salvaged, he was looking at in the timeframe in which the moment occurred, and it wasn't until years later with advancements in technology that allowed for Geordi to be able to rebuild the saucer (and the eventual scrapping of the Galaxy-class ships that allowed for him to get a star drive to replace the one destroyed from the battle). Thus leading to the D's appearance in Picard Season 3.
I assumed the Hansens heard the stories about the Borg from Zephram Cochrane. The Hansens a could’ve read reports on the “Borg” from Captain Archer and Dr. Phlox that peaked their curiosity. I always wondered where their curiosity about the Borg came from until the movie First Contact and Enterprise episode, Degeneration.
cochrane was long gone. and he never knew about the Name of that species or the cube ships. it's more likely that the hansons were part of section 31 and knew therefore about this big secret. that also explains why they had to go rogue. we all know, section 31 will even betray starfleet to get what they want. like a more military starfleet after a big battle lose
@@acmenipponair He made a speech about it then he recanted it. When captain Archer was tasked to find the scientists from the Arctic Circle he recalled Zephram Cochrane’s speech. Rewatch Enterprise Degeneration episode. Both Archer and Phlox reported their encounter with the Borg to Starfleet. Before I watched Enterprise’s Degeneration I was confused where the Hansens got their information about the Borg. It’s my opinion that they went on search for the Borg when Q drag the Enterprise, Picard’s ship, to the Borg. If you have a different perspective let me know.
"I'm *from* Iowa" does not necessarily mean *born* in Iowa. Someone born in the UK while their family is on vacation but then grows up in New York won't say "I'm from Berwick upon Tweed" unless they're an absolutely insufferably twaffle. Stretching from entry one is not a good look.
With the D project, in my head cannon Geordi got a lot of help from the other engineering miracle worker Miles O'brien to get the old girl back up and running
I just figured that doesn’t violate canon at all. Picard isn’t an engineer. He’s like “this is unsalvageable” and Geordi’s all “…, it’s gonna take a lotta duct tape, but with all due respect you don’t know what the frak you’re talking about, sir”
@Caritas Goth Karaoke its time required. Right now they are decimissioning 2 year old ships because their design is so poor and the vost to fix it is not worth it
Here’s the thing, if the Narada changed the future of the new timeline, this means the same time travel events probably didn’t happen in this timeline. This might have created a backwash going as far back as the 19th century (if Picard even exists in this timeline to travel back to Mark Twain’s time). Also, the attack on the Kelvin probably forced Winona Kirk to go into labor early. Besides, Kirk said he was “from Iowa.” If he spent his entire childhood in Iowa, he’d probably say that he was from there
Just because Chekov wasn't a Bridge Officer in season 1 doesn't mean he wasn't a member of the crew then [there are over 400 guys there that we seldom see more than once if at all]
With regards the Starfleet ships with a letter in the registry, the fake Yamato in TNG: "Where Silence Has Lease" had the registry NCC-1305-E (I think!). Whereas, when the real ship appeared later in the season, it's completely different and has no letter.
@@jdslyman I think they used to write and film episodes in different orders back then. So, they probably didn’t plan to re-use the same ship twice or at least didn’t bother checking that the registry would be kept consistent between episodes. I do know the registry’s actually mentioned in dialogue in the first episode by Riker, whereas it’s only seen on a computer screen in the second. They probably didn’t imagine, back when it was filmed, that many years later we’d have the technology to remaster the episodes and make details like that really clear to see.😂
@@jpwphoenix1701 they shot on film, so they could see it perfectly in post production. most likely they used first the 2m model for the yamato and to not have to repaint too much they only changed out the 7, 1 and D on the painted on registry number. they most likely just put disposeable stickers on the numbers. for contagious then they had to make a model of the ship anyway as they had to destroy it then with acid, so they then wrote the correct number on that dummy model
The Discovery and Picard stuff is unforgivable. Surprised that the 2024 Guinan not knowing who Picard wasn't on the list, which was blatantly stupid. There needs to be official lore keepers, or better yet... trust in the Memory Alpha wiki.
I heard that 2024 Guinan was living in a timeline that was the past of the "mirror" future. In that darker timeline, the events of "Time's Arrow" never happened so that Guinan never met Picard in the past. As for the discovery stuff, Spock didnt tell anyone about his parents or brother, so his sister wouldnt really be a big stretch. The Klingons have always changed a lot and i thought they looked cool. And honestly i thought it was nice that they added a lot of variation in skintone and made them more alien and scary. They're a mostly space dwelling species with very separate houses and clearly a lot of wild genetic variation already in the species based on the wide variety of looks we see throughout canon. Also they reference Enterprise era encounters affecting their genes and seem to be pretty advanced in genetic manipulation. I feel like they actually did an ok job with that part of things. anyways thanks for attending my Daystrom Institute lecture
Matalas said the Time's Arrow thing was intentional. And while that seemingly contradicts with the scene with Punk on the Bus, there's a really fun explanation there: Bad future or no, the whale probe would still have come to Earth, and so Kirk & Spock may still have traveled back in time to the 20th century. So it's possible they still had a run-in with Bus Punk. And it might have gone far worse than a simple nerve pinch...
The Hansen family did follow the Borg back to the Delta quadrant, which had no communication links back to Starfleet until Pathfinder was used to contact Voyager. Maybe they forgot to transmit their findings?
I was born in Germany, but I was raised in Oklahoma. When talking to people, I say I'm from Oklahoma. :D That is what I assumed Kirk's line was in the ST IV: TVH.
The "Kahn couldn't have known Chekov" thing is pretty well debunked. If one pays attention in Space Seed, one may catch that Kahn has access to the ship computer for a time. This included information about the crew and other Star Fleet personnel. Kahn has an eidetic memory. There is no reason why he couldn't have seen Chekov's profile and remembered it.
Koenig at a convention in the 1990s made a joke about having not met Khan. He said they met, when he came into sickbay with a base case of food poisoning from the food stores. He had a bad case of the bowels. He then said, 'Khan saw me grunting and said, I never forget a face'. Errkk..
Not to mention - how would the Romulans have known? Only known ship to have been assimilated. As far as the Romulan Empire (and galaxy at large) was concerned the others just disappeared or were destroyed.
@@coeusdarksoul2855 Romulan arrogance is also one of their defining traits, so I could see them perpetuating the narrative of "No Romulan has ever been assimilated successfully" despite evidence to the contrary.
The working theory bout Chekov in Space Seed was he was in the Washroom when Khan was making his plans. Chekov flushed the toilet, Khan heardthe flush, and it interrupted his chain of thought, thus Khan's big plan didn't go quite as well.
I think at some point, they mentioned that because of temporal incursions and time travel and all of those things that the original crew did that the effects of the Romulan ship, going back in time, could also have effects in the past before it arrived. Pretty good hand waving IMHO.
Q Who - Q: The Borg is the ultimate user. They're unlike any threat your federation has ever faced. They're not interested in political conquest, wealth, or power as you know it. They're simply interested in your ship, its technology. They've identified it as something they can consume. Best of Both Worlds Part 1: Lt. Cmdr Elizabeth Shelby: I thought they weren't interested in human life forms. Only our technology. Capt. Picard: That priority seems to have changed.
They had a canon issue all within TNG. The first season blatantly states that the Romulans had just vanished and noone had seen or interacted with them in a century. Then the Enteprise-C just happens to prevent a war by helping the Klingons against a Romulan attack only two decades prior.
2 Things: 1. 'From' ain't the same thing as 'Born', IMDB> Dr. Gillian Taylor: Don't tell me! You're from outer space. Kirk: No, I'm from Iowa. I only work in outer space. 2, Khan, when in Sick Bay in 'Space Seed" had access to the records on board. Maybe that's where he saw the face of our Favorite Russian.
Pretty sure Kirk didn't say he was 'born in' Iowa in Voyage Home, but that he was 'from' Iowa. Gillian says something like, "Don't tell me: you're from outer space", and Kirk replies, "No, I'm from Iowa. I only work in outer space." I'm working from memory though, and it has been a while since I saw it. But it was one of my favourite lines in a film full of cracking good lines. 😏
Ya know, I think I can answer the Borg one. Section 31. They captured the Borg tech from "Regeneration." 7s parents, one or both, were a member of section 31. Section 31 has existed as long as the Federation Charter has been a thing, but certainly would have been around as we know them since Archer's days. So section 31 would have intercepted this super advance tech to keep it out of unreliable hands. So, when the time to test on live Borg came, they'd send an agent.
4.2K Thumbs Up + Mine! 👍 You're welcome! Thanks! 😊 Notes: I noticed that you left out recasting and that's a good thing! 👍 So many people freaked out about how "Saavik" went from looking like Kirstie Alley to looking like Robin Curtis, and no one seemed to notice! They were probably used to how daytime dramas used to deal with cast changes by having a plot about the need for cosmetic reconstruction surgery. Eventually they went with an announcer saying "The role of _____ is now being played by _____ due to illness." Now they just send characters away long enough yo make the transition easier. But not everyone forgets! The topic is a bit ironic considering that before the original series got the digital remastering process treatment, that we viewers had to contend with a shape-shifting "Starship Enterprise" in most episodes, if not in every episode, because of the excessive usage of stock footage! 😳 🖖
I always heard that it was that in the original timeline the NX Enterprise didn't exist but after First Encountersit became a ripple in time, which led to it's being created, why there were borg on earth in that timeline, and that led to the creation of Discovery so they're ripples that have changed small aspects of history.
Also Zephram Cochrane heard the name of the ship from the future is named Enterprise. Maybe he had the name in his notes they found after he disappeared and named the ship after tribute to him.
The Platonians, Apollo and Flint the Immortal would have all had an opportunity to interact on earth at the time of Plato. A good idea for a story and it would all be canon.
I am a huge Trek fan...like since the original in re-runs and then TNG, DS9, Voyager (though I felt it was starting to go dry then)...and I gave Enterprise 2 1/3 Seasons but after "Extinction", I felt Trek was dead...even if I went back and watched a few good Enterprise episodes sense then...I know others may think "whatever man" but Discovery is just not my canon...I actually respect "Enterprise" more now than before...it has grown on me...and yes, I love Strange New Worlds and Picard Season 3...but we do need a "Legacy" series that carries on Picard Season 3.
Keep in mind, it's just a show. We cant go too hog wild on canon. It's fun, but we cannot police it so bad. But if I were a canon lawyer . . . 1. Kirk said he is *from* Iowa, not born. 2. Borg in Enterprise were a temporal anomaly. In the timeline that exists in Q Who?, no borg had been to earth. 3. Please refer to the CFB Trenton restoration of the Halifax Bomber. Shot down in WW2, Found underwater in 1990. It took 20 years to restore with hundreds of volunteers, but in 2010 it was issued a certificate of air worthiness. Anything can be restored if an effort is made. They just simply could not make it more than a "classic car". You hit the nail on the head with that one. 4. Warp 5? Touche. Assume they simply changed the dynamics of their warp matrix slightly enough to resolve the issue. 5. NX-01a? Fair, but it should be noted that NX01 was only the first Warp 5 ship, people had been warping for a century. I figure if Riker can get Tripps death wrong (we all say), Voyager crew can forget about Jonathan Archers registry number. These people are hired to lead . . . Not read. 6. Enterprise: I think Picard is referring to the two from his Yesterdays Enterprise 7. Romulans: fair 8. Klingon and klingonese: different strokes for different folks, Klingons had many planets and colonies and I assume not all Klingons went smooth. They are known for messing with genetic engineering, they might have been really bad at it. 9. Chekov: I assume Chekov was on the enterprise, just working in the armory. 10. Relics . . . I always chocked it up to allegory. Kirk would have been VERY old if he had not skipped 78 years. But again! Let's have some dang fun!!
Generations was supposed to have Kirk, Spock, and Mccoy. Leonard Nimoy and Deforest Kelley both declined to appear, saying it was poorly written and "those lines could be given to anyone". Nimoy in particular said his lines were "not Spock-like" and he didn't want a glorified cameo. So they went through the rest of the cast to see if anyone was willing to do it, and got Doohan and Koenig, forgetting that Scotty seemingly thought Kirk might still be alive when he was revived in Relics.
The easiest explanation for the klingon "issue" is one that seems to have never considered: the klingon empire is an /empire/. It cound have different cultures that dominate at different times. Since it's a /space/ empire it could even have different species be dominant. Rome was like that. As Rome conquered places those people /became/ romans. They may have been ethnically gaulish, celtish, or greek but they were also roman. It'd make the klingons a super interseting foil for the federation. Anybody from any species can rise to power but klingons do it through force of arms while the federation do it by consent. In this paradigm, the leaders (or at least the crews of ships near the federation) during TOS could have actually been humans from "prewarp" colonies that joined the Empire (for various reasons)
Chekov and Khan recall having met each other. Although Chekov was not a bridge officer when Khan came on the Enterprise in Space Seed (1967), it should be remembered that when Khan first took over Enterprise, he started with the engineering deck. Chekov was engineering ensign at the time, and mounted resistance against Khan, according to the movie's novelization.
The stress of the situation, the impacts of the temporal field, etc. could have triggered labor early which is why Kirk was born when he was. Chances are, her labor could have continued for a few days or even weeks and he could have been born in Iowa. She was even surprised when she called and said the baby was coming...wasn't exactly planned. The Hansons were considered super eccentric and probably weren't taken seriously by Starfleet, they knew about the borg but not extensive information which is why they were doing their crazy strategy to find them and were lost and assimilated by the borg. Starfleet was not interested in the borg, the borg were not interested in humans until the involvement of Q which spiraled things early.
1: "I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space." He never said he was born in Iowa. You could have grown up there and just remember being from there having his childhood there, so that's where he says he's from. The hospital I was born in is in a different town than the town I'm actually from. 2: In Star Trek 8, the enterprise-e follows the Borg back in time, creating the Annika Hansen paradox. 3: advancement of future technology could very well have rendered Captain Picard's previous statement about salvaging the Enterprise d moot. 4: also with the rapid advancement of future, they may have found a solution to the Warp problem behind the scenes. 5: What? 6: I'll give u that one. 7: romulans in the alpha quadrant probably didn't know about assimilated romulans in the Delta quadrant, and the Borg that attacked the romulans in next-gen may have destroyed the romulans because they resisted assimilation too hard. 8, 9, & 10: U right, u right. 4 out of 10 ain't bad 🤭🙄🫡
Koenig had a funny take on that point. Let's look at it from a few angles, though. PC? I'll hold that thought for if we get a comment thread going. Consistent continuity? That's scarcely an issue at all! Given Khan's super-brain, it's not hard to imagine him accessing the full crew roster with personnel portraits and memorizing every name in the hundreds-strong complement! Figure everyone thinks of that. Even the Nitpicker's Guide affirms that this isn't really an issue. Koenig's funny take? He's been quoted speculating that Khan had to use the head and the Enterprise has just one. He was first in line forever until the man before him was finally finished, and he never forgot that it was Chekov.
He says he's from Iowa, not that he was born there. That's an important distinction to make because lots of people grew up in places that are different from that of their birth. I myself would say I'm from North Carolina even though I was born in Florida, because I did not actually live a significant portion of my life in Florida.
My opinions on these plotholes. 10. Kelvin Timeline was already different before Nero, and the Narada showed up. 9. The High-up Members of Starfleet knew about the Borg but not enough to know how much of a threat they are until Q flinged the Enterprise-D into the Delta Quadrant or the farthest part of the Beta Quadrant. 8. Starfleet did think it was worth fixing it up like they say in the video. And they wanted to launch the Enterprise-E. Geordi really wanted to rebuild the Enterprise-D and he did. Even though it took a few decades. 7. Either the ruptures repaired themselves or Q or a Q decided to fix the problem for them. 6. The crew of Voyager saw a faster way to get home and overlooked the NX-01 part since they were in the Delta Quadrant for about four or five years at that point. That or no one on Voyager studied on Captain Archer's Enterprise. 5. NX-01 Enterprise was part of United Earth Starfleet before the Federation was created but it still an Enterprise so they should have said seven Enterprises in Tribbles and Tribblations. 4. Bad writing. I can't think of an explanation for this. 3. Also bad writing because Alex Kurtzmans is an idiot. Although I have one idea why the Klingons look like Klingorcs. Some Klingons tried to undo the effects of the Augment Virus did to them in Enterprise after they were cured by Dr. Phlox but their attempts were less than successful. However this would only help to a small degree because for a few reasons like why are all the Heads of the Klingon Houses are Klingorcs and recently in Season 2 of Strange New Worlds the Klingons they meet are the correct looking ones in Enterprise and also after Star Trek the Motion Picture. (This one can be explained that these Klingons are from colonies or planets that were not affected by the virus since in Enterprise, they said that the virus spread to some of their planets in the region of a space not all the Klingon planets. This however brings up another thing as in the Original series the Klingons that Kirk and Federation meet during this time look like the human looking ones that are descended from Klingons who contracted the virus. They don't meet the correct looking ones until around the time of Star Trek the Motion Picture. So how is it that they never met the correct looking Klingons during the Original Series?) 2. Like they said in the video, maybe Chekov was on the Enterprise when Khan Noonien-Singh showed in the lower decks, and they must have passed each other in the hallways. I remember something like this in another video, I think they said it was in a Star Trek book but I'm not sure. 1. Scotty not remembering what happened to Kirk on the Enterprise-B could because of him being stuck in the transporter buffer for over 70 years and also old age. Or maybe he though and hoped that Kirk somehow survived. Edit: In a Star Trek novel, Scotty finds out what happened to Kirk after the event of Picard and Kirk stopping Soran in Star Trek Generation and was happy that Kirk was alive and sad when Kirk died for real. He did some time travel stuff to prevent Kirk from being stuck in the Nexus but this turned out disastrous as without Kirk's help, Picard failed to stop Soran which leads to the death of everyone on thw Enterprise-D and the inhabitantsof the star system that they were in, and the Borg assimilated Earth like in the First Contact movie since the there was no Picard or Enterprise to stop them again. There were other bad things that happened but I can't remember them all but the point is that it was very bad timeline. Scotty realized his mistake and undid the problem by letting events play out as is. There is a series of novels that takes place after Star Trek Generations but this one involves the Romulans and the Borg working together and they revive Kirk to use him as some sort of weapon against the Federation and to kill Picard. This was prevented with Admiral McCoy and Doctor Bashir help in removing the Borg implants in Kirk's body and Spock using a Mind Meld to remove the any Romulan brainwashing in Kirk's mind. Kirk is happy to be reunited with old friends and becomes somewhat friends with Picard and he apparently encounters his Mirror Universe counterpart who tries to kill him. And Kirk end up in a relationship with a women named Teilani who is a genetically engineered Romulan/Klingon hybrid and has a son with her. So in these stories Kirk slept with a Romulan and Klingon in one go. However these novels are beta-canon or non-canon but I like to think most of the novels are taking place in different parallel universes and a some are taking place in the prime timeline. It just makes it easier that way. Even though it is kind of a cheap and overused thing to do.
Since constant time travel shenanigans have been established across multiple series, I feel like that gives a blanket explanation for all the canon irregularities.
Explaining the new Trek is simple. Science fiction allows for alternate rimelines. Everything after the first JJ movie could be happening in "the universe next door", and doesn't have to line up exactly with pre-2009 Trek.
Considering the previously Enterprise named ships - the rec room scene only shows one out of two and soon three US Navy Aircraft carriers named Enterprise. So I am okay with leaving out a few Starfleet ships with that name.
Recent Canon-errors. At least 4 episodes of season 1 of strange new worlds feature T-Pring. She is fairly well known to several of Pike's crew and specifically known by Nurse Chapel. She would not be surprised when Spock got the message from her from Vulcan in TOS Amok Time. Relics, RIker and LaForge are of course impressed at Scotty's improvisation of storing himself and the other guy in a transporter buffer. However, Dr M'Benga was doing that aboard Enterprise for most of season 1, and Number 1 ordered a direct power coupling to the sick bay emergency transporter to facilitate it. Therefore this tactic should have been well documented in NC-1701's maintenance logs and been a known tactic by the time NCC-1701D rolled around
I think that the explanation for Khan knowing Chekov despite him not being seen on camera in TOS can be that Chekov was simply off duty or sick when Khan took over the Enterprise. Also I go with the transporter temporarily screwing with Scotty's memory for thinking Kirk was still alive is a good explanation. And yes Section 31 did know about the Borg, but why send a family of three, including an eight year old girl?
In Aerospace we have a term: Beyond Economical to Repair (BER). It doesn't mean that it can't be repaired but that it would cost way too much to repair the item, so not worth the effort. I have actually repaired a few BER items that were declared BER because several components were obsolete and a re-design would have been necessary to accept the replacement components. On my own time, I found a few used components at surplus houses and repaired the BER items. In the end, the customer accepted the used components and gladly paid for the repairs. I would bet that the 1701-D's saucer section was declared "BER" by the assessment team and Jordi did exactly what I did.
Of the various ways to reconcile the Scotty thing, guess I'm partial to the explanation in the novel The Return. Consider anyone who would tell you Elvis lived past '77. Suppose one such person believes it despite being present at the time of death. Per the novel, that's pretty much Scotty's outlook on Kirk.
if I was entering a StarFleet federation ship after so many years, the last thing ill probably see (after the location of the toilets) is what registry number it is. Tuvok however should have noticed
Kirk was born in space in the Kelvin timeline because the stress of the situation sent his mother into early labor. If it wasn't for the arrival of the Narada, the USS Kelvin probably would have returned to Earth in time for him to be born planetside. The appearance of the temporal wormhole is what caused the timelines to split, which preceded Jim's birth.
Thank you! Yes, the temporal wormhole and the arrival of a Romulan ship from several centuries in the relative future and this ship then causing the destruction of Vulcan and near extinction of the Vulcan species, not to mention Spock Prime also coming into the new timelien branch and meeting his younger self is what created a different timeline! I don't know why people get so bizarrely hung up on Kirk's birth (shouldnt the fact his father died too early have far more impact on young Kirk?) that they seem to think if they spin a way to explain Kirk's birth in space away they can "prove" the Kelvinverse is not a different timeline? Huh?
That's always what I assumed happened. It's interesting to think that Kelvin Kirk is older than Prime Kirk. At last in terms of their birthdays.
Kirk's Bday: March 22, 2233
Alternate Reality Kirk's Bday: January 4, 2233
They paid homage to this recently in Strange New Worlds when in an alternate timeline Kirk was born on the USS Iowa
@@Trueflights That was one of those "almost right" timeline changes. Instead of being born "in Iowa" he was born "on the Iowa."
My thoughts on Scotty forgetting Kirk was dead. Kirk’s body was never found at the time of the Enterprise B incident. Perhaps Scotty never gave up hope that Jim Kirk was just missing and would somehow return.
No, he was just scrambled from being in the transporter for so long.
@@emsleywyatt3400 That and also all the alcohol. Its been a while since I've seen this episode but I believe there was a line about him being upset about the future only having synthol.
@@emsleywyatt3400 how does transporter even work? does it kill the original and create a copy? can it clone people? can it be used as a weapon to take apart other spaceships? can it replicate objects? They don't seem to explain any of it. So much for science fiction.
@@CoolGobyFish They do explain it. The transporter deconstructs objects at a subatomic level and analyzes how they go together storing the pattern in a data buffer. The ship has pads on the hull that beam the deconstructed particle data to a point where it is then reconstructed. This is why transporters can't beam through shields and get less effective when certain things are in the way. There is definitely an argument to be made that its killing the original and creating a copy, which is why people like Pulaski and Bones probably don't trust it. And it can definitely be used as a weapon or to make copies, as we've seen both things happen in Star Trek on screen. The ability of a transporter to deconstruct, store, and reconstruct something is limited by its power and buffer size, which is why they have industrial transporters for larger objects. So, it's unlikely they could pick apart a ship since the buffer would be filled and the energy needed would be too high, though with a big enough buffer it would be possible to transport a whole ship (this has also been done on screen).
@@QuintusAntonious They are most definitely kill the original since new atoms are used to reconstruct them. With this tech you can create an entire army of Picards or Kirks.
you forgot about Spot. Data's cat was male, called "he" and "him" up until "Force of Nature", the fist time they say she, and has kittens in "Genesis" (it's hard to even remember this episode...). BUT... in the final season of Picard, when Data is giving his memories to Lore, Data clearly says "he". And yes, I have a cat named Spot
The simple answer is that Data had more than one cat and named all of them Spot.
@@garyhall2770 Spiner's headcanon is that there were actually 3,500 cats on the _D_ and Data calls them all Spot.
Anyone else wish there was a crossover with this cat's decendants & Cat from Red Dwarf😁 I know, they are going overboard now, but I'd like to see that!
@@garyhall2770Or he was really bad at telling animal gender, so used "he" and "she" interchangeably.
It's not all that surprising that Spock never mentioned Burnham. Spock didn't even bother telling anyone that one of the most well known, influential and well-respected Federation ambassadors was his father until he was standing right in front of him being greeted by Kirk in "Journey to Babel". Spock also never revealed his relation to Sybok until AFTER Kirk and co were captured by him.
To be fair, if my brother founded a cult built on the belief that God was on the other side of the galaxy waiting on an Uber, I wouldn't bring him up much either.
Plus they specifically were making an effort to hide her existence.
Why would Spock not mention his Space Jesus Mary Sue half sister?
My only doubt is if Burnham is the half sister of Rey "Mary Sue" Palpatine.
I feel like everyone brings this up just to attack Discovery without remembering how much Spock has already done it in the past
@@ignaciomoreno9655 There was a specific reason they had to erase her from all public records and never mention her. If you didn't see the ending I won't say why - but it was very direct and extreme that telling anyone about her would endanger her and the crew of that whole ship.
“I never lie when I got sand in my shoes, commodore” is my favorite Jordie laforge quote, I’m glad he got the rank of commodore one day
The rank of Commodore is technically only during wartime. It is basically a “senior” captain ( 06 ) who never got promoted to admiral.
I’m hoping he is around if Legacy makes and he also give the ship a lot more fire power
@@guardianofthebrick6491 refit into the 3 nacelle Enterprise D from All Good Things lol
Is "Jordie" anyway related to Geordi LaForge?
@@johnkim163 because how we do things now is exactly how they’ll be done in 400 years, right? I think it’s funny when people want to criticize Star Fleet for not being exactly like today’s militaries. It’s a made-up story, they can have different rules if they want to.
The El-Aurian refugees coming to Earth in the 23rd century undoubtedly brought knowledge of the Borg, I just assumed Starfleet felt the Borg were to remote in the Delta Quadrant to be a threat and back shelved the Borg. But the Hansen's probably thought it was more interesting than Starfleet did.
The thinking at SFHQ was probably something more along the lines of:
A hostile species capable of wiping out a warp-capable civilization? Sure.
One that could challenge Starfleet fresh off the victory in the war with the Klingons? Surely not. Especially since these traumatized refugees were "undoubtedly" overstating the threat posed. Until Q introduced the Enterprise-D to the Borg, Starfleet was convinced that they were technological peers, with superior capability, to anyone near them. That's why they shifted to fewer, larger ships with greater patrol/exploration regions.
I think it's a case of both the El-Laurians and a certain mission from Enterprise's second season(which shows Cochrane had knowledge of them after Lily returned)
true and latestly at that moment starfleet intelligence must have put one and one together. but they weren't allowed to go public with it to not disturb the timeline. only certified researchers (like the hansons) knew about it. but the hansons didn't wanted to wait until picard finds the borh officialky, so they went against section 31 and made their rogue attempt to find the borg.
It's also possible Starfleet just thought they were a cultural boogeyman or the El-Aurians were misunderstanding something else while the Hansen's were the equivalent of 24th century Bigfoot hunters.
That is the canon explanation, yeah. Starfleet had heard about the Borg from El-Aurians and other species, but had no solid data. The Hansens got the green light and funding from the Federation Council on Exobiology to try to find and study the Borg, but of course never returned with the information they gathered.
So when Q threw the Enterprise D's crew into an encounter with them, it was the first official and recorded encounter Starfleet had with the Borg.
There's obviously First Contact and the "Regeneration" episode from Enterprise to consider, but the only records from that time were Zephram Cochrane's drunken ranting, and Archer's crew didn't know what they were encountering.
Regarding Scotty and his thinking that Kirk came to rescue him in the Enterprise - I always loved a line from one of William Shatner's post-Generations novels which was said, I think, by Counselor Troi to Spock which explained it which was something along the lines of - "It wasn't what he knew, it was what he hoped". Now I don't personally consider those novels canon but it is still a valid and quite touching idea I think.
I think the explanation of degradation works
I never assumed that Scotty was being literal. He didn't assume that Kirk came to get him in the original Enterprise - he was just being hyperbolic. It was never a problem for me.
Of course the true reason is that Relics aired something like a decade before Generations hit movie theaters
@@vic5015 a decade? lol you must be a zoomer
Generations came out 2 years after relics. and at first it was planned that spock and mccoy would be next to kirk in the startup, but kelley was already too ill for filming and nimoy didn't wanted to just have this one scene. so kirk was accomondated by scott and chekov (takei and kirk would have never done it together, they hate each other, and nicchols didn't wanted to do movies anymore)
It never really concerned me. Kirk was famous for suddenly pulling victory from defeat. I think Mr. Scott assuming Kirk's death was suddenly revealed to be a ruse and him returning home victorious again after apparantly dying was equal parts wishful thinking and habit. He'd need assurances before coming to the conclusion that Jim Kirk's luck had finally run out.
My own head cannon is that the Kelvin was headed back to earth so that its first officer's son would be born in Iowa, but the ship got redirected because of the Narada.
The attack could have also cause pre-mature labor as well.
When I tell people "Im from X-city." it is because I grew up there. The fact I was born in Y-city, is ignored by me as I have no memory or attachment to it. I think we can understand Kirk's comment in this light.
@@6XGate I thought that's exactly how it was explained.
@@6XGate that’s what I came here to say.
I’m guessing they were at a loss for a 10th item and knew that 9 wouldn’t do.
“Let’s give the nerds plenty to gripe about…”
Me: “You rang?”
Yeah, but that's an alternate timeline, so both can be true.
My favorite trek fan theory is that all the episodes are holosuite reenactments based on the accounts of crew members. This is often why we hear them recording logs. Because of this, all canon discrepancies are due to misspoken or misremembered details of the logs or different levels of detail resolution on the holosuite program of the reenactment. Some episodes are from bootleg holosuite dealers and dont even recount real events (episodes you hate are no longer canon if it feels better that way).
Ooh, I like this! Headcanon accepted.
Or, and hear me out here, it is multiple TV shows & movies made over multiple decades by multiple people with various degrees of talent and dedication. I know, crazy theory but there it is.
This sounds like the literary Agent Hypothesis. I suppose we have "These Are The Voyages" to thank for that.
@@willstikken5619Sure, but we are looking for an in-universe explanation.
Thank you Ellie! As my uncle used to say: "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story". Great countdown and awesome presentation as always! Love you guys! 😊
My lawyer friend says the same thing.
James Kirks mother just told Jim he was born in Iowa. That incident was deemed TOP SECRET obviously.
The Borg changes were explained between First Contact and Enterprise. They sent a message in the 22nd century to the Delta Quadrant allowing earlier incursions and Seven's parents to investigate.
They would have also heard about them from the El Aurians who got saved by the Enterprise B fleeing from them which was released before the VOY episode was released
We never heard of Spock having *any* siblings until it was convenient for him to have a brother for Star Trek V Final Frontier. So having Burnham be his sister wasn’t too big of a deal.
Spock was always secretive. Watch the TOS episode where his parents are introduced.
Spock did say in ST5 that he had a sister named Michael.
@@sethnapolitano396 There were no sisters at all mentioned in Star Trek 5
@@Caidoe_Esthov Spock did mention a sister named Michael in one of the movies.
@@sethnapolitano396 That didn't happen. You can find transcripts of all of the Star Trek movies online.
Trek has always had a very flexible attitude to canon.
With all the time travel though, I reckon inconsistencies from episode to episode is built right into the premise.
I mean, who's to say the Romulans or Klingons aren't changing things all the time? Who's to say we see all the time travel shenanigans anyway? We may only see the times it gets put rights. What about all the other ships having time adventures? Maybe they're not as good as setting everything back on track again.
For the bit where Kirk wasn't born in Iowa any more, we don't even need that. Enterprise was set before TOS, but apparently had technology that didn't exist yet in TOS. TOS, The Journey Home, TNG, Voyager and Picard (that I remember off the top of my head) all had time travel to 20th/21st century Earth. TNG even had time travel to 19th century, and one of the time travel storylines involved a 20th century business person exploiting technology from a future time-travel craft. There's plenty of reason within Star Trek stories themselves to believe there were many timelines in play from the 19th or 20th century onwards, and it presumably wouldn't take that much for Kirks mum to give birth on a starship vs. in Iowa. With appologies to those who believe in fate, if we assume chaos theory applies in the Star Trek universe, it would be surprising any of the major Star Trek characters were even born in most timelines - there's more than enough time for tiny differences to have led to different generations living different lives, having different children etc. For example if the flap of a butterflies wings can affect the path of a storm some time later, the arrival of time-travelling humanoids who just by breathing have a greater effect on the atmosphere would certainly have changed all the major world weather events (while leaving the overall climate unchanged), which would have affected where millions of people go and when, who they meet, who they talk to and what conversations they get inspired by, and yada yada - and that's within the first few years after the time travellers came and went.
Still, Star Trek has only observed a few timelines - it can easily be picking and choosing from infinite timeline options due to the feedback effects of past changes affecting the future and then affecting how the past was changed. And this is a great excuse for Strange New Worlds to not treat cannon as dogma.
@@stevehorne5536
A lot of words you got there.
...
And I enjoyed reading it all. Seems like you and I are of a similar mind, friend.
@@AndrewD8Red Why write one word when a thousand will do?
@@stevehorne5536
Too right, mate.
I always blame it on Q.
Who knows what Q, or any of the other Q's, did before Q first appeared on TNG.
Any of the Q could've been making changes to the universe and that's how/why it changed.
It's also a convenient excuse to not have to follow canon. And why ENT had technology TOS didn't.
In defense of number 10, maybe Kirk's mom didn't give birth in space in the og timeline and the romulans going back made her give birth early, it may be a stretch but it makes as much scense as it making the enterprise go from looking like a play pen, to an apple store
Yeah, but they literally built a statue in his hometown...
@@Lordoftheapes79 Premature labor caused by stress and (potentially) the Kelvin being delayed from returning to Earth due to an astronomical anomaly are perfectly reasonable consequences of the divergent timeline.
@@griffinsummoner I actually hinted this being the case in the season finale of strange new worlds' first season. As Kirk talks to Pike in that episode he mentions his dad being on the Kelvin before, and then it fades out ashe mentions Tarsus.
@@griffinsummoner that's all well and good, but they people that paid to have the statue built too commemorate "the future birthplace of James T. Kirk" were a bit insulted by their attempt to rewrite the history. It's easy to see it that way now, because they went back to the original timeline, but back then they were actually trying to completely restart the franchise. Needless to say, that didn't go over well.
We shouldn't put too much weight on what Kirk said in Star Trek IV. After all: He was talking to a woman 200 years from his past, trying to get her help him with his mission all while not revealing too much about the future. In this context his best bet was to keep things as simple and believable as possible - even if that meant being less than accurate. With that in mind, the line from "Voyage home" doesn't contradict the idea that James T. Kirk was born on the USS Kelvin, grew up there with his mother while his father was still serving in Starfleet and eventually followed in his father's footsteps.
Kahn was given computer access to the Enterprise's specs In sick bay in The Space Seed & could've recognized Chekov from looking through the crew manifest.
The Enterprise couldn't be practically salvaged to be returned to the fleet, as in return to duty. What Geordi did was over decades, and as mentioned in the 3rd season of Picard, the Enterprise-D was "outdated" by the current Starfleet metrics.
As to the "NX-01A", well, the registry in "Enterprise" was for the United Earth ship.
As to the line of Scotty saying that Jim Kirk pulled the Enterprise out of mothballs, the actual line was, "I bet Jim Kirk himself hauled the old girl out of mothballs. . ."
It's obviously a whimsical statement, as Scotty can clearly see that some time has passed since he stepped into the transporter. Nonetheless, there have been several occasions where Kirk was presumed dead, but miraculously came back from death in Scotty's time.
The Federation literally redesigned their ships to fix the sub space problem. I didn't think I was that knowledgeable in Trek but I thought what culture would know more than me.
About that Warp 5 speed limit I always explained its absence as misinterpretation of the research data. Initially everybody thought warp drive damages all subspace, but in reallity it may have only damaged the subspace in that specific region (for reasons unknown)
well, they said for movie 8, that starfleet has found new geometries to counter the rippling effects. it seems as if they then didn't needed the tilting nacelles anymore
@@acmenipponair I think that was some background information from the writers. Always sounded like a bad excuse to me. But as long as it isn't said on screen it is not canon and we can make up our own solution. 😁
In Voyager, Janeway hinted the "warp damages subspace thing" was just a ruse to hide the existence of Omega particles.
This reminds me of an answer Babylon 5 creator J. Michael Strasczynski once gave when he was asked how fast ships on that show travel in hyperspace: "They move at the speed of plot."
yes, warp speed is an acronym for we are running plot speed. can be warp 2 or 9 and you sometimes need a week to the next planet or get from the neutral zone to earth in 2h
I think Geordi heard the log entry and thought: “”Hold my synthale”, to that entry.
Although never mentioned by name, weren't the Borg encountered by Captain Archer in Enterprise? I seem to recall that he ascertained they were heading to the Delta quadrant. So it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to think that starfleet knows of a strange bio/mechanical species that has a connection to the Delta quadrant
The Kirk one I figure he was raised in Iowa plenty of people in the military are born in what ever base where ever their parents happen to be but it doesn’t preclude them still being from wherever they are ultimately raised. At least that’s what I figure happened
"I'm from Iowa. I was only born in outer space." 😜
I figured kirk would have been born on earth, the stress of the attack may have induced early labor
I seem to recall from VOY "Dark Frontier" that Starfleet had heard whispered rumors of a race called "the Borg" and an admiral hired the Hansens to research it, kind of like in Babylon 5 Earthforce had heard rumors of the Minbari but had never encountered them until they went looking for them, leading to an equally disastrous first contact. The difference between the two was that had someone else made contact with the Minbari it might not have led to a massive war, whereas the Borg are automatically everyone's enemy (unless they decide you're not distinctive enough to bother with).
I dunno, Sheridan wasn't happy with the situation on the Prometheus. He knew it could lead to disaster and he was right.
For the whispers, you also have Guinan's people who fled to the Federation and, probably brought stories of the Borg with them. The Federation just didn't know what the Borg were or where they existed other than in the direction of the El Aurian homeworld.
The Hansens were chasing rumors there...
Yeah, they very clearly say that they were chasing rumors, and as they got closer they learned more definitive facts. We are also seeing them after they have been studying the Borg for a whole, and are doing so similarly to how Jane Goodall studied chimps in the wild. It is entirely conceivable that they didn't send any updates or data home, believing they would be able to write some award winning papers about their discoveries once they got back, and not wanting anyone else to scoop their work.
And once they followed through the transwarp tunnel, they were out of communication range, any way.
This doesn't feel like breaking Canon at all.
@@AndrewD8Red to be fair, the Minbari kinnda brought it on themselves. I'd have to go back and watch that movie again, but I'm fairly certain that the Minbari ship the Prometheus encountered not only had their gun ports open right at the start(syupid thing to do in any encounter), and had their stealth systems activated(again, stupid thing to do). The Promethius, when it couldn't tell if the weapons were activated or not because of the Minbari stealth system, responded by opening fire.
@@GBRyker61 It had worked for a thousand years. It was still a mistake but also most other races were properly deferential. Also it seems it was JMS major stab that Starfleet and Trek were ultimately right. You do first contact, you don't fire first. The ship you are entrusted with, your crew who trusts you with their lives, their loved ones who hope you bring them home safe, none of it matters relative to the mission.
In Enterprise, Dr. Phlox has a tribble and mentions that they breed very rapidly. But in Short Treks, Edward alters tribbles to be born pregnant because they breed very slowly, limiting their use as a food source.
Yeah, but Short Treks are quasicannon.
@@Lordoftheapes79 But fully awesome, in particular with the Edward episode.
I like to think that since Enterprise was affected by the temporal cold war, any canon discrepancies could be due to time travel. Let's be honest, rapid breeding tribbles spread so quickly that it's no surprise that one of them would somehow end up catching a ride with a time agent.
Define Phlox's "very rapidly" vis a vis Edward's food source "very slowly"- they might be the same, just with different point of view. That's my HC.
@@treyabraham515 The Trek version of "A wizard did it!"
Khan was reviewing the ships records while in sickbay, he could have seen Chekhov’s profile and remembered his face. Also Chekhov could have been on leave when space seed occurred, and heard about the Botney Bay when he returned.
In ST4, Kirk didn't say he was BORN in Iowa. He said he was FROM Iowa.
But that was in respond to "You are from outer space", implying he is born and raised in Iowa but only works in outer space. If they intend him to be born in Outer Space, he should have respond with "yeah but I was raised in Iowa.
For the Dauntless, the thing that makes nothing to do with the normal naming scheme is that it's a NX prototype ship. Expiramental ships seem to use the lettering for major iterations of the design prior to the transition to the standard designs for the ship. Meaning that there is, probably, a Protostar with the A or B letter on it after the first one disappeared on its mission there.
Also, there are other examples of ships with the same name and different registries that don't have a letter assigned to them such as the Defiant (The one lost in TOS and discovered by the mirror universe has a registry and Siskos ship has a different registry but the same name and no letter)
My problem is that we know what the NX-01 was not the lettering because frankly MOST ships have had other ship names without any letter added. It was to the credit of the Enterprise crew that they earned what seemed to be a singular honor that no other crew had earned (and frankly feel they've gotten a little generous in modern Trek with handing out). Just would be crazy for a ship to be labeled NX-01-A Dauntless and not more be made of it's naming than that in light of Ent. Obviously didn't exist when the episode featured but it is a little wild they went with that for Enterprise...could have easily named it NX-17 and called it a day. Humans got to the moon on Apollo 11 launched on a Saturn 5. Not exactly some kind of terrible shame that the Enterprise wasn't the very first prototype ship of Starfleet of even her intended class.
The same name different registry is a normal process, both in modern navies and in Start Trek. The reuse of a registry number with a letter designation is the exception and is supposed to be fairly rare denoting a particularly storied history or notable contribution.
No problem with NX prefix,but more apropriate number will look better. Like NX78550 for example
If we're going to get technical, as most of us Trekkies do, at no point did Kirk ever say he was "born" in Iowa.
Yeah! I don't claim to know that much about Trek, but I'm pretty sure the line was "No, I'm *from* Iowa, I only work in outer space."
@@ACtheLegend It was in a book that Roddenberry wrote. It's never been stated onscreen though. Being "from" Iowa doesn't have to mean he was born there - just raised.
absolutely true. we don't know where he was born. most likely his mother settled down with him and his younger brother in iowa and he saw his father in the original timeline on shore visits
It’s just people looking for stuff to complain about in the JJ movies
@@mrcritical6751 That does seem to be a popular pasttime.
The Voyager episode "Flashback" established that Tuvok's very first Starfleet posting was aboard the USS Excelsior under the command of Captain Hikaru Sulu. The episode revolves around Tuvok's experiences during the events of The Undiscovered Country. Yet, in the film, we never see Tuvok, despite the fact that he told Janeway that he was aboard for Khitomer battle.
Yet we do see him on the Excelsior-class Enterprise B!
@@GSBarlev While Tim Russ is in that scene, he is not playing Tuvok.
@@SeekOutWisdom Or he was doing under cover work even then. In the case of the Enterprise B, pretending to be something other than a Vulcan.
Edit: Or is Tuvok really of another race and only pretending to be Vulcan?
I think the bigger issue is the death of Dimitri Valtane before the Khitomer battle, despite him being seen alive at the end of the movie. Aldo, there's the condensing of the movie's events into two days rather than the two months stated in the movie. I guess Tuvok is an unreliable narrator.
That whole episode reeks of, "Well, I suppose we should do something to mark the 30th", compared to the love and attention to detail of DS9's 'Trials and Tribble-ations'.
With number 9, the Borg, it makes perfect sense. The Enterprise-E destroys a sphere above Earth in the past resulting in Starfleet's first Borg encounter directly on Earth during the Enterprise show era. A little timeline mess never hurt anyone!
nope not at all🤣
#5: Aside from the rec deck images of past Enterprises, the first-season TNG conference room featured gold-painted relief sculptures of the Enterprise aircraft carrier and Enterprise starships A-D. Again, no NX-01.
yes but that can be explained by the fact that its a display of the nc(c)s. not nx. also they already missed out the older enterprise aircrafr carrier from wwii
Also, don't forget that the Scotty error is only due to the bad management of Generations. Scotty's lines in Generations were actually intended for Spock but Leonard Nimoy refused to return. Had Spock been in the movie, the canon would have been fine. It is also why Chekov turned people into nurses and headed for sickbay as his lines were written for McCoy, but again DeForest Kelly also said no to the movie.
kelly is excused for being too ill in 1994 already and Spock didn't wanted to do it without mccoy. takei and kirk hate each other and nichols had retired from film making. so koenig had to take some time off from being bester in b5 for his last pavel chekov impression (in picard he speaks the grandson) and doohan supported him
One theory I read said that Scotty had seen Kirk cheat death so many times, that he didn't assume that the Enterprise B incident had REALLY killed Kirk no matter what the official record said. And as it turned out, he was RIGHT. Scotty's only mistake was assuming that Kirk made it back to life before he did.
You forgot in the classic series episode "Where No Man Has Gone Before", Spock was playing Tridimensional chess with Kirk and was grinning and almost laughing. And later in the episode "The Menagerie" which was re-edited from the unaired pilot "The Cage", Spock and Pike encounter a strange blue leaf plant that sings when the wind blows on its leaves. Spock and Pike hold the plants leaves and Spock breaks out with a huge SMILE. Emotions? Huh?
Kirk was born in Iowa / The (Kelvin) Timeline diverged only when the Narada showed up:
Even assuming the Kelvin wasn't diverted to investigate the anomaly (which HAD appeared prior to the Narada, and AFAIK we don't have a canon answer to how much before), stress has been known to induce labor- and I think we can agree the situation with the Narada was stressful for those (originally) on the Kelvin. If Winona was in labor before the attack, methinks Captain Robau would've let (if not insisted) George be by her side instead of on the bridge to sniff around a spatial anomaly. (Then why was she in sickbay? Dude, you think the Federation doesn't have prenatal care?)
The question would be, does Kirk have the same birthdate in both timelines?
Now, with the Hansens and the Borg- do we think those El-Aurian refugees didn't mention those weird cyborg things that decimated their civilization? Its possible Starfleet considered it somewhat bunk as they'd never see anything like that, and considered their ramblings some form of PTSD or the like. But it'd be weird if they were debriefed, and even if the information wasn't considered absolute, that it'd be sitting around somewhere. And the Hansens were like "hey, we'll go check... if you give us a ship."
"She can't be salvaged" - Picard ain't an Engineer. Plus, Geordi didn't salvage her to put her back into service, (which is likely what he meant); he wanted a museum piece.
The Dauntless was a FaaaaaaAAAAKE! So, its registry was irrelevant. We can see when an actual Starfleet experimental ship appears, the NX registry is much higher (even if they hadn't updated the hull to match the updated internal displays). Insofar as the crew not noticing, eh, it was probably one of the notes but not worth mentioning compared to the other facts on the ground.
"PIcard got the Romulans wrong" - yeah, film at eleven with that one...
"Discovery for the Klingons wrong" - airs right after the Picard exposé.
*0:04** when you really think about it logically (or cynically if you prefer) that five year mission of StarFleet (LLC) would in reality only be two and a half years since it would take two and a half years to get to the furthest point as dictated by the mission mandate or itinerary before promptly turning around and heading back home without stopping along the way for souvenirs or shopping sprees*
Nah, the crew that are transferring to the Enterprise do so at the station closest to where the Enterprise will be assigned, as that is where the ship, and the mission, are starting from.
The borg raven thing I think how the Hansen's knew more about the borg prior to Q who was because they were talking with elurian survivors and others who had encountered the borg prior. The bog did use transwarp hubs to travel so contact would have occurred
@@funfact8660 don't forget section 31 it would also explain why future endeavours in the artic sphear remains were never explored further and unknown afterwards
Spock never mentioned his parents, half brother, or sister until they appeared on screen. The guy just doesn't talk about family.
Did Kirk ever say that he was born in Iowa or just that he was “from” Iowa? Because a kid born today on an overseas military base who was raised from childhood in Florida would still say that they were from Florida.
had the same thought
Would that kid still say Florida if asked directly if they were from the country they were literally born in? Or if they were from a military base?
Riverside Iowa is having their annual trek fest this month and they got Chase Masterson, Leeta from DS9 will be here. June 23rd and 24th. I live in Iowa, have my whole life and have been to trek fest a few times. good stuff.
There is a comic book that came out maybe in the 80s 90s can't remember. The it takes place right after the Enterprise got refit and they're going on their next five year mission. Everybody was talking about the time they thought they were all going to die because of one mission or another. Chekov mentions the time when Khan took over the ship. Everybody looked at him in shock. One of them asked you were aboard when it happened? He replied he was just assigned to the Enterprise and he was assigned to the lower decks when it happened. It is also mentioned in another Star Trek novel that basically he was on one of the engineering decks as new officer assign to the Enterprise doing the graveyard shift.
Exactly. Kahn never met him onscreen, but probably memorized the crew manifest.
I’m the original series, the Enterprise supposedly had a crew of over 400 people. Obviously every crew member couldn’t be in every episode. It only makes sense that Chekov was on board for a while before he became the alpha shift navigator.
MMMborg,by the Hansens, brilliant.
And seeing Pulaski on screen as Ellie's voice over describes something that was never spoken of again had me Awwing - that was a bit cruel, but funny.
That Co-op logo on the screen when the Borg cooperative was mentioned was on point.
And Ellie does a great Checkov impression.
Great editing not-Martin.
I really want to see this Star Trek Cannon.
Is it like the ornamental cannon from The Flashing Blade?
It was a Federation superweapon designed by a German and outfitted on Galaxy class vessels.
It's known in some circles as _Pachelbel's Cannon in D_
I'll see myself out.
scotty not remembering kirks death could be attrributed to the minute degradation to his pattern in the buffer. maybe it had to do with memory pathways
4:14 - There's a simple explanation for that. Advancement in tech. When Picard stated the saucer couldn't be recovered, it was during a time where it might not have been possible. Considering the advancements made over the time after Generations, there's a good chance that not only were Starfleet able to recover the saucer from the planet, but allowed for Geordi to be able to restore the saucer back to full functionality. It's actually not quite different from modern advancements in technology within the medical field. Once upon a time, there wasn't an MRI machine (which was inspired by the tech in Star Trek as the inventor mention). Before that, X-Rays had to be used. Due to MRIs, we can get multiple images on three different planes to be able to see everything.
The same is true with the automotive industry (prior to using automation, cars were built completely by hand. Now, it's half automated when it comes to certain things like welding, with hand building still being used to assemble the car, or at least it was the last time I read). So, it could be that when Picard stated that the D's saucer couldn't be salvaged, he was looking at in the timeframe in which the moment occurred, and it wasn't until years later with advancements in technology that allowed for Geordi to be able to rebuild the saucer (and the eventual scrapping of the Galaxy-class ships that allowed for him to get a star drive to replace the one destroyed from the battle). Thus leading to the D's appearance in Picard Season 3.
I assumed the Hansens heard the stories about the Borg from Zephram Cochrane. The Hansens a could’ve read reports on the “Borg” from Captain Archer and Dr. Phlox that peaked their curiosity. I always wondered where their curiosity about the Borg came from until the movie First Contact and Enterprise episode, Degeneration.
cochrane was long gone. and he never knew about the Name of that species or the cube ships. it's more likely that the hansons were part of section 31 and knew therefore about this big secret. that also explains why they had to go rogue. we all know, section 31 will even betray starfleet to get what they want. like a more military starfleet after a big battle lose
@@acmenipponair
He made a speech about it then he recanted it. When captain Archer was tasked to find the scientists from the Arctic Circle he recalled Zephram Cochrane’s speech. Rewatch Enterprise Degeneration episode. Both Archer and Phlox reported their encounter with the Borg to Starfleet. Before I watched Enterprise’s Degeneration I was confused where the Hansens got their information about the Borg. It’s my opinion that they went on search for the Borg when Q drag the Enterprise, Picard’s ship, to the Borg. If you have a different perspective let me know.
"I'm *from* Iowa" does not necessarily mean *born* in Iowa. Someone born in the UK while their family is on vacation but then grows up in New York won't say "I'm from Berwick upon Tweed" unless they're an absolutely insufferably twaffle.
Stretching from entry one is not a good look.
With the D project, in my head cannon Geordi got a lot of help from the other engineering miracle worker Miles O'brien to get the old girl back up and running
Hey, if Tom Paris can build a runabout (in a cave! With a box of scraps!) in a weekend, then Geordie can assemble a Galaxy class in twenty years.
I just figured that doesn’t violate canon at all. Picard isn’t an engineer. He’s like “this is unsalvageable” and Geordi’s all “…, it’s gonna take a lotta duct tape, but with all due respect you don’t know what the frak you’re talking about, sir”
@Caritas Goth Karaoke its time required. Right now they are decimissioning 2 year old ships because their design is so poor and the vost to fix it is not worth it
Here’s the thing, if the Narada changed the future of the new timeline, this means the same time travel events probably didn’t happen in this timeline. This might have created a backwash going as far back as the 19th century (if Picard even exists in this timeline to travel back to Mark Twain’s time).
Also, the attack on the Kelvin probably forced Winona Kirk to go into labor early. Besides, Kirk said he was “from Iowa.” If he spent his entire childhood in Iowa, he’d probably say that he was from there
Just because Chekov wasn't a Bridge Officer in season 1 doesn't mean he wasn't a member of the crew then [there are over 400 guys there that we seldom see more than once if at all]
With regards the Starfleet ships with a letter in the registry, the fake Yamato in TNG: "Where Silence Has Lease" had the registry NCC-1305-E (I think!). Whereas, when the real ship appeared later in the season, it's completely different and has no letter.
@@jdslyman I think they used to write and film episodes in different orders back then. So, they probably didn’t plan to re-use the same ship twice or at least didn’t bother checking that the registry would be kept consistent between episodes. I do know the registry’s actually mentioned in dialogue in the first episode by Riker, whereas it’s only seen on a computer screen in the second. They probably didn’t imagine, back when it was filmed, that many years later we’d have the technology to remaster the episodes and make details like that really clear to see.😂
Because mike okuda made a major mistake
@@jpwphoenix1701 they shot on film, so they could see it perfectly in post production. most likely they used first the 2m model for the yamato and to not have to repaint too much they only changed out the 7, 1 and D on the painted on registry number. they most likely just put disposeable stickers on the numbers. for contagious then they had to make a model of the ship anyway as they had to destroy it then with acid, so they then wrote the correct number on that dummy model
What about in DS9, I think it's the first season, Sisko references his dad in the past tense like he's dead, and then he shows up later in Homefront.
The Discovery and Picard stuff is unforgivable. Surprised that the 2024 Guinan not knowing who Picard wasn't on the list, which was blatantly stupid. There needs to be official lore keepers, or better yet... trust in the Memory Alpha wiki.
I heard that 2024 Guinan was living in a timeline that was the past of the "mirror" future. In that darker timeline, the events of "Time's Arrow" never happened so that Guinan never met Picard in the past. As for the discovery stuff, Spock didnt tell anyone about his parents or brother, so his sister wouldnt really be a big stretch. The Klingons have always changed a lot and i thought they looked cool. And honestly i thought it was nice that they added a lot of variation in skintone and made them more alien and scary. They're a mostly space dwelling species with very separate houses and clearly a lot of wild genetic variation already in the species based on the wide variety of looks we see throughout canon. Also they reference Enterprise era encounters affecting their genes and seem to be pretty advanced in genetic manipulation. I feel like they actually did an ok job with that part of things. anyways thanks for attending my Daystrom Institute lecture
Matalas said the Time's Arrow thing was intentional. And while that seemingly contradicts with the scene with Punk on the Bus, there's a really fun explanation there:
Bad future or no, the whale probe would still have come to Earth, and so Kirk & Spock may still have traveled back in time to the 20th century. So it's possible they still had a run-in with Bus Punk. And it might have gone far worse than a simple nerve pinch...
The Hansen family did follow the Borg back to the Delta quadrant, which had no communication links back to Starfleet until Pathfinder was used to contact Voyager. Maybe they forgot to transmit their findings?
I believe Kirk was born in space but grew up in Iowa. Just like I say that I'm from Hyde - where I grew up - but I was born in Ashton 😂
I was born in Germany, but I was raised in Oklahoma. When talking to people, I say I'm from Oklahoma. :D That is what I assumed Kirk's line was in the ST IV: TVH.
The "Kahn couldn't have known Chekov" thing is pretty well debunked. If one pays attention in Space Seed, one may catch that Kahn has access to the ship computer for a time. This included information about the crew and other Star Fleet personnel. Kahn has an eidetic memory. There is no reason why he couldn't have seen Chekov's profile and remembered it.
And when did Chekhov join the Enterprise? He could have been working on another deck.
Kahn could have bumped into in a hallway.
Koenig at a convention in the 1990s made a joke about having not met Khan. He said they met, when he came into sickbay with a base case of food poisoning from the food stores. He had a bad case of the bowels. He then said, 'Khan saw me grunting and said, I never forget a face'. Errkk..
#4: none of the previously assimilated Romulans had experienced The Admonition.
Not to mention - how would the Romulans have known? Only known ship to have been assimilated. As far as the Romulan Empire (and galaxy at large) was concerned the others just disappeared or were destroyed.
@@coeusdarksoul2855 Romulan arrogance is also one of their defining traits, so I could see them perpetuating the narrative of "No Romulan has ever been assimilated successfully" despite evidence to the contrary.
The working theory bout Chekov in Space Seed was he was in the Washroom when Khan was making his plans. Chekov flushed the toilet, Khan heardthe flush, and it interrupted his chain of thought, thus Khan's big plan didn't go quite as well.
I think at some point, they mentioned that because of temporal incursions and time travel and all of those things that the original crew did that the effects of the Romulan ship, going back in time, could also have effects in the past before it arrived. Pretty good hand waving IMHO.
Schrödinger's canon
Q Who - Q: The Borg is the ultimate user. They're unlike any threat your federation has ever faced. They're not interested in political conquest, wealth, or power as you know it. They're simply interested in your ship, its technology. They've identified it as something they can consume.
Best of Both Worlds Part 1: Lt. Cmdr Elizabeth Shelby: I thought they weren't interested in human life forms. Only our technology.
Capt. Picard: That priority seems to have changed.
Kirk definatly went where no man had gone before plenty of times, though in later years Trip gave him a run for his money
& yes I know Trip came first in the timeline but Enterprises wasn't even though of back then
2:03: "Oh, I am sorry, Doctor. Were we having fun?"
They had a canon issue all within TNG. The first season blatantly states that the Romulans had just vanished and noone had seen or interacted with them in a century. Then the Enteprise-C just happens to prevent a war by helping the Klingons against a Romulan attack only two decades prior.
2 Things: 1. 'From' ain't the same thing as 'Born', IMDB> Dr. Gillian Taylor: Don't tell me! You're from outer space.
Kirk: No, I'm from Iowa. I only work in outer space.
2, Khan, when in Sick Bay in 'Space Seed" had access to the records on board. Maybe that's where he saw the face of our Favorite Russian.
With the whole temporal department, all “canon” problems are solved 😂
Pretty sure Kirk didn't say he was 'born in' Iowa in Voyage Home, but that he was 'from' Iowa. Gillian says something like, "Don't tell me: you're from outer space", and Kirk replies, "No, I'm from Iowa. I only work in outer space." I'm working from memory though, and it has been a while since I saw it. But it was one of my favourite lines in a film full of cracking good lines. 😏
Ya know, I think I can answer the Borg one.
Section 31. They captured the Borg tech from "Regeneration." 7s parents, one or both, were a member of section 31. Section 31 has existed as long as the Federation Charter has been a thing, but certainly would have been around as we know them since Archer's days. So section 31 would have intercepted this super advance tech to keep it out of unreliable hands.
So, when the time to test on live Borg came, they'd send an agent.
Interesting point, and because secrecy they send "civiist" but they got too far
Maybe the klingon baldness was more to do with them being at war with eachother than anything.
And tbf according to ds9's crossover with TOS klingons "looked different" back then.
4.2K Thumbs Up + Mine! 👍 You're welcome! Thanks! 😊
Notes: I noticed that you left out recasting and that's a good thing! 👍 So many people freaked out about how "Saavik" went from looking like Kirstie Alley to looking like Robin Curtis, and no one seemed to notice! They were probably used to how daytime dramas used to deal with cast changes by having a plot about the need for cosmetic reconstruction surgery. Eventually they went with an announcer saying "The role of _____ is now being played by _____ due to illness." Now they just send characters away long enough yo make the transition easier. But not everyone forgets!
The topic is a bit ironic considering that before the original series got the digital remastering process treatment, that we viewers had to contend with a shape-shifting "Starship Enterprise" in most episodes, if not in every episode, because of the excessive usage of stock footage! 😳
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I always heard that it was that in the original timeline the NX Enterprise didn't exist but after First Encountersit became a ripple in time, which led to it's being created, why there were borg on earth in that timeline, and that led to the creation of Discovery so they're ripples that have changed small aspects of history.
Also Zephram Cochrane heard the name of the ship from the future is named Enterprise. Maybe he had the name in his notes they found after he disappeared and named the ship after tribute to him.
The Platonians, Apollo and Flint the Immortal would have all had an opportunity to interact on earth at the time of Plato.
A good idea for a story and it would all be canon.
I am a huge Trek fan...like since the original in re-runs and then TNG, DS9, Voyager (though I felt it was starting to go dry then)...and I gave Enterprise 2 1/3 Seasons but after "Extinction", I felt Trek was dead...even if I went back and watched a few good Enterprise episodes sense then...I know others may think "whatever man" but Discovery is just not my canon...I actually respect "Enterprise" more now than before...it has grown on me...and yes, I love Strange New Worlds and Picard Season 3...but we do need a "Legacy" series that carries on Picard Season 3.
Canon can never get in the way.
Canon IS the way.
Consistency is quality.
The best way to avoid canon problems is to tell a new story in a new different time in history and with new characters.
Keep in mind, it's just a show. We cant go too hog wild on canon. It's fun, but we cannot police it so bad.
But if I were a canon lawyer . . .
1. Kirk said he is *from* Iowa, not born.
2. Borg in Enterprise were a temporal anomaly. In the timeline that exists in Q Who?, no borg had been to earth.
3. Please refer to the CFB Trenton restoration of the Halifax Bomber. Shot down in WW2, Found underwater in 1990. It took 20 years to restore with hundreds of volunteers, but in 2010 it was issued a certificate of air worthiness. Anything can be restored if an effort is made. They just simply could not make it more than a "classic car". You hit the nail on the head with that one.
4. Warp 5? Touche. Assume they simply changed the dynamics of their warp matrix slightly enough to resolve the issue.
5. NX-01a? Fair, but it should be noted that NX01 was only the first Warp 5 ship, people had been warping for a century. I figure if Riker can get Tripps death wrong (we all say), Voyager crew can forget about Jonathan Archers registry number. These people are hired to lead . . . Not read.
6. Enterprise: I think Picard is referring to the two from his Yesterdays Enterprise
7. Romulans: fair
8. Klingon and klingonese: different strokes for different folks, Klingons had many planets and colonies and I assume not all Klingons went smooth. They are known for messing with genetic engineering, they might have been really bad at it.
9. Chekov: I assume Chekov was on the enterprise, just working in the armory.
10. Relics . . . I always chocked it up to allegory. Kirk would have been VERY old if he had not skipped 78 years.
But again! Let's have some dang fun!!
Ellie Littlechild's voice and pacing is outstanding! Didn't need the Closed Captioning this time. Thank you! 🖖
Generations was supposed to have Kirk, Spock, and Mccoy. Leonard Nimoy and Deforest Kelley both declined to appear, saying it was poorly written and "those lines could be given to anyone". Nimoy in particular said his lines were "not Spock-like" and he didn't want a glorified cameo. So they went through the rest of the cast to see if anyone was willing to do it, and got Doohan and Koenig, forgetting that Scotty seemingly thought Kirk might still be alive when he was revived in Relics.
The easiest explanation for the klingon "issue" is one that seems to have never considered: the klingon empire is an /empire/. It cound have different cultures that dominate at different times. Since it's a /space/ empire it could even have different species be dominant.
Rome was like that. As Rome conquered places those people /became/ romans. They may have been ethnically gaulish, celtish, or greek but they were also roman.
It'd make the klingons a super interseting foil for the federation. Anybody from any species can rise to power but klingons do it through force of arms while the federation do it by consent.
In this paradigm, the leaders (or at least the crews of ships near the federation) during TOS could have actually been humans from "prewarp" colonies that joined the Empire (for various reasons)
I recall a friend one time proposing that there was interbreeding with different peoples in the empire.
I think I read that the 1980s Star Trek novel The Final Reflection was a big influence on Star Trek Discovery Klingons.
Chekov and Khan recall having met each other. Although Chekov was not a bridge officer when Khan came on the Enterprise in Space Seed (1967), it should be remembered that when Khan first took over Enterprise, he started with the engineering deck. Chekov was engineering ensign at the time, and mounted resistance against Khan, according to the movie's novelization.
Could it be argued that any ship christened with the "NX" Prefix could be an experimental ship rather than an official starship
NX is always experimental iirc
The stress of the situation, the impacts of the temporal field, etc. could have triggered labor early which is why Kirk was born when he was. Chances are, her labor could have continued for a few days or even weeks and he could have been born in Iowa. She was even surprised when she called and said the baby was coming...wasn't exactly planned.
The Hansons were considered super eccentric and probably weren't taken seriously by Starfleet, they knew about the borg but not extensive information which is why they were doing their crazy strategy to find them and were lost and assimilated by the borg. Starfleet was not interested in the borg, the borg were not interested in humans until the involvement of Q which spiraled things early.
1: "I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space." He never said he was born in Iowa. You could have grown up there and just remember being from there having his childhood there, so that's where he says he's from. The hospital I was born in is in a different town than the town I'm actually from.
2: In Star Trek 8, the enterprise-e follows the Borg back in time, creating the Annika Hansen paradox.
3: advancement of future technology could very well have rendered Captain Picard's previous statement about salvaging the Enterprise d moot.
4: also with the rapid advancement of future, they may have found a solution to the Warp problem behind the scenes.
5: What?
6: I'll give u that one.
7: romulans in the alpha quadrant probably didn't know about assimilated romulans in the Delta quadrant, and the Borg that attacked the romulans in next-gen may have destroyed the romulans because they resisted assimilation too hard.
8, 9, & 10: U right, u right. 4 out of 10 ain't bad 🤭🙄🫡
Koenig had a funny take on that point. Let's look at it from a few angles, though.
PC? I'll hold that thought for if we get a comment thread going.
Consistent continuity? That's scarcely an issue at all! Given Khan's super-brain, it's not hard to imagine him accessing the full crew roster with personnel portraits and memorizing every name in the hundreds-strong complement!
Figure everyone thinks of that. Even the Nitpicker's Guide affirms that this isn't really an issue.
Koenig's funny take? He's been quoted speculating that Khan had to use the head and the Enterprise has just one. He was first in line forever until the man before him was finally finished, and he never forgot that it was Chekov.
He says he's from Iowa, not that he was born there. That's an important distinction to make because lots of people grew up in places that are different from that of their birth. I myself would say I'm from North Carolina even though I was born in Florida, because I did not actually live a significant portion of my life in Florida.
Consistency is quality.
I can't get my head around Guinan not recognising Picard in S2 of Picard, even though they met in Time's Arrow.
I assume it was because the altered future made Time's Arrow not happen at all.
Someone once said that the best way to deal with temporal paradoxes is to just ignore them. I agree and I just enjoy the ride.
My opinions on these plotholes.
10. Kelvin Timeline was already different before Nero, and the Narada showed up.
9. The High-up Members of Starfleet knew about the Borg but not enough to know how much of a threat they are until Q flinged the Enterprise-D into the Delta Quadrant or the farthest part of the Beta Quadrant.
8. Starfleet did think it was worth fixing it up like they say in the video. And they wanted to launch the Enterprise-E. Geordi really wanted to rebuild the Enterprise-D and he did. Even though it took a few decades.
7. Either the ruptures repaired themselves or Q or a Q decided to fix the problem for them.
6. The crew of Voyager saw a faster way to get home and overlooked the NX-01 part since they were in the Delta Quadrant for about four or five years at that point. That or no one on Voyager studied on Captain Archer's Enterprise.
5. NX-01 Enterprise was part of United Earth Starfleet before the Federation was created but it still an Enterprise so they should have said seven Enterprises in Tribbles and Tribblations.
4. Bad writing. I can't think of an explanation for this.
3. Also bad writing because Alex Kurtzmans is an idiot. Although I have one idea why the Klingons look like Klingorcs. Some Klingons tried to undo the effects of the Augment Virus did to them in Enterprise after they were cured by Dr. Phlox but their attempts were less than successful. However this would only help to a small degree because for a few reasons like why are all the Heads of the Klingon Houses are Klingorcs and recently in Season 2 of Strange New Worlds the Klingons they meet are the correct looking ones in Enterprise and also after Star Trek the Motion Picture. (This one can be explained that these Klingons are from colonies or planets that were not affected by the virus since in Enterprise, they said that the virus spread to some of their planets in the region of a space not all the Klingon planets. This however brings up another thing as in the Original series the Klingons that Kirk and Federation meet during this time look like the human looking ones that are descended from Klingons who contracted the virus. They don't meet the correct looking ones until around the time of Star Trek the Motion Picture. So how is it that they never met the correct looking Klingons during the Original Series?)
2. Like they said in the video, maybe Chekov was on the Enterprise when Khan Noonien-Singh showed in the lower decks, and they must have passed each other in the hallways. I remember something like this in another video, I think they said it was in a Star Trek book but I'm not sure.
1. Scotty not remembering what happened to Kirk on the Enterprise-B could because of him being stuck in the transporter buffer for over 70 years and also old age. Or maybe he though and hoped that Kirk somehow survived.
Edit: In a Star Trek novel, Scotty finds out what happened to Kirk after the event of Picard and Kirk stopping Soran in Star Trek Generation and was happy that Kirk was alive and sad when Kirk died for real. He did some time travel stuff to prevent Kirk from being stuck in the Nexus but this turned out disastrous as without Kirk's help, Picard failed to stop Soran which leads to the death of everyone on thw Enterprise-D and the inhabitantsof the star system that they were in, and the Borg assimilated Earth like in the First Contact movie since the there was no Picard or Enterprise to stop them again. There were other bad things that happened but I can't remember them all but the point is that it was very bad timeline. Scotty realized his mistake and undid the problem by letting events play out as is.
There is a series of novels that takes place after Star Trek Generations but this one involves the Romulans and the Borg working together and they revive Kirk to use him as some sort of weapon against the Federation and to kill Picard. This was prevented with Admiral McCoy and Doctor Bashir help in removing the Borg implants in Kirk's body and Spock using a Mind Meld to remove the any Romulan brainwashing in Kirk's mind. Kirk is happy to be reunited with old friends and becomes somewhat friends with Picard and he apparently encounters his Mirror Universe counterpart who tries to kill him. And Kirk end up in a relationship with a women named Teilani who is a genetically engineered Romulan/Klingon hybrid and has a son with her. So in these stories Kirk slept with a Romulan and Klingon in one go. However these novels are beta-canon or non-canon but I like to think most of the novels are taking place in different parallel universes and a some are taking place in the prime timeline. It just makes it easier that way. Even though it is kind of a cheap and overused thing to do.
I can't wait until strange new worlds has an episode with TOS, TNG and Discovery, Klingons sharing in some bloodwine together 😂
Since constant time travel shenanigans have been established across multiple series, I feel like that gives a blanket explanation for all the canon irregularities.
A TBD Kirk's line where he says he met Pike when the latter was promoted to "Fleet Captain."
Explaining the new Trek is simple. Science fiction allows for alternate rimelines. Everything after the first JJ movie could be happening in "the universe next door", and doesn't have to line up exactly with pre-2009 Trek.
Considering the previously Enterprise named ships - the rec room scene only shows one out of two and soon three US Navy Aircraft carriers named Enterprise. So I am okay with leaving out a few Starfleet ships with that name.
Recent Canon-errors. At least 4 episodes of season 1 of strange new worlds feature T-Pring. She is fairly well known to several of Pike's crew and specifically known by Nurse Chapel. She would not be surprised when Spock got the message from her from Vulcan in TOS Amok Time. Relics, RIker and LaForge are of course impressed at Scotty's improvisation of storing himself and the other guy in a transporter buffer. However, Dr M'Benga was doing that aboard Enterprise for most of season 1, and Number 1 ordered a direct power coupling to the sick bay emergency transporter to facilitate it. Therefore this tactic should have been well documented in NC-1701's maintenance logs and been a known tactic by the time NCC-1701D rolled around
It wasn't everything before the destruction of the Kelvin. It was everything before the Nerada arrived. Which was before that.
I think that the explanation for Khan knowing Chekov despite him not being seen on camera in TOS can be that Chekov was simply off duty or sick when Khan took over the Enterprise.
Also I go with the transporter temporarily screwing with Scotty's memory for thinking Kirk was still alive is a good explanation.
And yes Section 31 did know about the Borg, but why send a family of three, including an eight year old girl?
In Aerospace we have a term: Beyond Economical to Repair (BER). It doesn't mean that it can't be repaired but that it would cost way too much to repair the item, so not worth the effort. I have actually repaired a few BER items that were declared BER because several components were obsolete and a re-design would have been necessary to accept the replacement components. On my own time, I found a few used components at surplus houses and repaired the BER items. In the end, the customer accepted the used components and gladly paid for the repairs.
I would bet that the 1701-D's saucer section was declared "BER" by the assessment team and Jordi did exactly what I did.
Of the various ways to reconcile the Scotty thing, guess I'm partial to the explanation in the novel The Return. Consider anyone who would tell you Elvis lived past '77. Suppose one such person believes it despite being present at the time of death. Per the novel, that's pretty much Scotty's outlook on Kirk.
if I was entering a StarFleet federation ship after so many years, the last thing ill probably see (after the location of the toilets) is what registry number it is. Tuvok however should have noticed