The Critical Flaw That Haunted Jak And Daxter
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- čas přidán 13. 06. 2021
- Once upon a time there was a series that could. Jak And Daxter. A series revered to this day. Unfortunatly, with the benfit of hindsight we can look at Jak And Daxter and see what exactly went wrong. Why is it that this series basically fell off the map after it was all said and done. In my estimation, every problem with the series can be traced back to one critical flaw. The inability to find a distinct identity.
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Remember what I said at the end of the video, feel free to disagree, but keep it civil.
Yeah i most likely disagree with mostly your point of things about Jak and Daxter trilogy but i respect your opinion . It does make since as a business perspective to change the formula to super Mario 64 style to Grand theft auto style. so far as the driving cars in Jak2 they definitely improve the driving system in the later sequels while every one say that it doesn’t know what it wanted be, it still stay true to it self and took some risk while other video games wasn’t doing it at the time and sure it have it’s flaws like the story department and the game being so short but after all it’s not as bad as people seen to make it be but at the end I’m ok with every one having different perspective or them not liking the Jak and Daxter franchise for what ever reasons.
@@GUSLOL161 Ohh, we got a sass master in the house.
@@GUSLOL161 Could you try typing that out again, this time in English!
@@TBP I agree with your points said in the video and we have a similar stance. But after your comment I was going to bait you with "pee pee poopoo brain you're wrong"
But damn... looks like some troglodyte already beat me to it ha...
Anyway keep up the good work man I really enjoy your videos!
@@kristopher4557 troglodyte is a word that not nearly enough people use.
Jak and daxter 1 is my favourite. It’s just a simple and easy game to pick up and play whereas jak 2 turned me into a man before my time
Jak 2 turned me into one pissed off 7 year old.
I never heard it described perfectly, thank you
Jak 2 turned me into a serious lore fan, as a fricking child. What kind of child likes serious lore with dark topics? Kids that played jak 2
@@skycrapty1882 you're right, Jak 2 was my first game and i don't like games ho doesn't have lore of the world, i like, no... i love hearing guards talking to each others about the metal head war, the paranoia the guards have with Jak and the resistance, some other guards ho want to kill civilians and with the tanks the civilians doesn't make other riot (which means the people are annoying with Praxis and the guards).
That kind of things add a lot charisma and expectation of the world and game's plot
@@Just-a-Merican-Girl yess it did I feel that 😂
The Precursor Legacy perfected the flow and formula of 3D collectathons in a time where no one appreciated it anymore
As someone who aged with it and had age restrictions growing up, this series is a masterpiece, and I can’t be convinced otherwise…
I agree, the series was my favorite video game as a kid and it still is to this day and I'm 22.
I strongly agree one of the best in Playstation line up
i mean we had everything growing up, madden, homerun durby, jak n daxter, gta 3. no rules on what games we could have. and i invested so many hours into all of them. i think some games just aren't for some people. and if you take a really hard look at any games from 15-20 years ago i think it would be pretty easy to pick them apart and find atleast a few things they could've done better. i personally really enjoyed jak n daxter + ratchet and clank. they were some of my absolute favorites.
this was the first thing i ever played when i was little with my dad, it will always hold a place in my heart
Same here!
The one most baffling high point for me is that Daxter, the comic relief of the duo, is actually made MORE tolerable and relevant in the later darker games which don't even have his name. He's playable, he gets more story/lore relevance, he doesn't talk QUITE as often, and since Jak has been turned into an edgelord, his light heartedness sometimes better serves as a tone balance instead of just being obnoxious. Heck the guy got his own spin off game.
It's about the only thing from the first game that made sense to develop on that they actually DID.
Jak has edgy moments but he even he still cracks jokes and smiles at times.
They developed a ton. The world actually evolved pretty naturally. The Zoomers are now mass produced in an industrial age. Those lurkers that were hardly a threat in the first game are now used a labor force with an uprising as theyre intelligent shown with Brutter. Eco is used as a power source and used to theme the ammo. Its there if you look for it.
Jak is not an edgelord.
I think the identity in the Jak series was made by the people that it attracted. Rather than having one specific genre, it meshed together a series of different ones to give the players a variety rather than "oh, I have to run through here. Now there, now here again, levels done."
It was chaotic, the time travel theories, the history of Mar, Damas possibly being Jaks father, sarcasm, explosions, flying Cars, eco, Mad Max, firepower. It gave everyone a sense of touching all different sides and styles of games people enjoyed and gave everyone the option to either stare at a sunset or go blow up some shiny headed dinosaurs in a sandstorm while finding artifacts, with a timer and everything's on fire.
I think the series was great, I do see exactly where you're coming from when it comes to identity crisis and whatnot but I think it was a beautiful series and the chaos was only the tip of the iceberg.
It’s funny I just don’t think that a game having variety means it has an identity crisis
Jak 2 was incredible. It knew what it wanted to be, it was an action game based in the universe of Jak 1. It was 80% action hero game, and 20% fantasy. Once in awhile you would go somewhere like Haven Forest or Mountain Temple where you'd be reminded that this is the same land of Jak 1, and that was such a cool feeling. It was like a post apocalyptic version of Jak 1
One of the absolutely amazing things about Jak 2 is how it's a post-apocalyptic game where you get to properly experience and fall in love with the pre-apocalypse world.
I guess you could say that this game is a Jak of all trades
The game play and style mix & mach of the games is the reason why me and other people love them. PS2 era was the last time when you could still have games like that.
And while Jak 2 is pre-teen edgy it's still hasba sokid story and Daxter is actually funny unlike in the first game.
Hey, what about Daxter's own game?!
I take 2000's edge over the 2010s "le self-referential and quirky XD" anyday.
@@NihilisticIdealist I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with you. I'm so tired of the self referential humor that plagued a lot of series during the 2010s. Case in point SONIC THE HEDGEHOG.
The problem is that the Jak games weren't experimenting for the sake of experimenting or because they knew what they wanted. Innovation isn't "throwing everything at the wall until something sticks". It's building off what you already did in unique ways. Like, by your logic, shouldn't Assassin's Creed Valhalla automatically be considered innovative simply because it combines Parkour, A Witcher style RPG and combat, Stealth and sailing?
There's a saying in game development: "A game that has everything has no time for anything". The best games are those that pick 1 or 2 concepts and make those the best they can rather than implement lots of features that aren't as fleshed out.
This is actually one of the reasons cited by Naughty Dog themselves why the Jak and Daxter series never took off the same way its peers like Crash Bandicoot and Ratchet did. Because in their own words, they "threw the kitchen sink" at Jak. It had Platforming like Crash Bandicoot, but also gunplay like Ratchet, driving and racing like racing games, and an open world like GTA3 and skateboarding like Tony Hawk. Plus a ton of one off minigames. The end result was a series of games pulled in so many directions that few were satisfied. For example, if you were a fan of GTA3, you wouldn't like Jak 2 as much because the open world gameplay was limited and much of the game was platforming and linear driving missions. If you were a fan of Tony Hawk games, you wouldn't like Jak 2 as much because you had to play through a lot of platforming, driving and shooting levels to get to the skateboarding levels which were pretty short. And if you were a fan of platforming, well, only 1/3rd of your playtime in Jak 3 would be platforming. If the Jak games picked maybe 1 or 2 concepts max and built a game around them, then they'd likely be more popular. Like, Ratchet was built around platforming and shooting and it's doing great. Sly was built around platforming and stealth and it lasted longer. GTA was built on open world chaos and gunplay and loot at it. Tony Hawk went all in on Skateboarding so there's a reason why THPS 1, 2 and 3 are so fondly remembered but not the later games which added more fluff in.
@@FraserSouris Lots of text. But I think I agree.
@@FraserSouris Jak was still a platformer at its core, they just added a few new things to stay fresh
14:30 I glad you called out how naughty dog did kiara dirty throughout the trilogy in favor of ashland, who was obviously supposed to be with torn but they want that long awaited kiss to be with the hottest chicken I guess and tried to make up for it in the following game.
I love all of your typos here, especially "hottest chicken" 😂
I think Ashlyn was just Amy Hennig's preferred character of the two. Keira being the youthful girl-next-door precocious affection and Ashlyn being the mature woman who has suffered through hardship and temptation just as Jak has.
As with most things in 3 the execution let down that aspect of the story.
The reason why Kiara was left out at the end is because during the production of the third game the voice actress wasn't available. Don't remember if is was from work overload or health issues but they end deciding not giving much lines for Kiara and hook up Jak with Ashelin. I think the issue is more about lack of context on how things end like that.
The only thing I agree with from your video was when you said “Grand Theft Ottsel” lmao💀
Grand Theft Ottsel. I liked that pun too much.
"Jak 3 is repetitive" 2 minutes later "Jak 3 tries to do too much" Man make up your mind
At 19:20 when you were talking about setting trends and following trends I've noticed that Naughty Dog has always been the ones to follow trends but essentially just try to perfect them. That's not to take away from their talent and creativity with all their franchises but it's something I've noticed. Crash was essentially a 2D platformer gone 3D, Jak TPL was a 3D collectathon perfected, Jak 2 and 3 were 3D platformers and also open world, Uncharted and TLOU are really polished 3rd person shooters. Jak 2 and 3 were their only games I'd call "messy" (still love them tho) and that's probably due to switching up the series and not being consistent like their other franchises as you said.
Not to mention that TLOU capitalized on the zombie trend, which was still going strong at the time, while also doing something different. And Uncharted perfected platforming as a human character.
Honestly as a die hard fan of these games as a kid, who came back to replay them recently this was my overall takeaway as well and this vid encapsulated all the stuff I felt about my newest replay
i'd disagree with jak x if anything it was the most consistent part of the series. as vehicle segments had been a main stay as far back as the first game and is the only thing that stayed in all 3 games.
As a kid i used to be a diehard fan of Jak and Daxter franchise and after watching this video, i am placing myself in position of disagreement. In my personal opinion, i believe all the Jak and Daxter games were amazing and aged like fine wine despite it's discontinuation after the series' biggest flaw being The Lost Frontier. I remember Jak II and Jak 3 specifically pretty fondly and i believe these two were the games that basically made the sells for the series to the audience who were craving for more edgy games despite taking a intense turn by 180° after The Precursor Legacy. Jak II was also the game that made me embrace the idea of a slowly decaying Urban Industrial environment setting. It just felt...amazing.
See I vastly prefer 2 and 3 to the first game in almost every aspect but your point about the thematic shift is still very evident and makes me skeptical the games will ever see a remake no matter how much I want it just because they’d actually be incredibly jarring back to back
The tone shift is fine. The second game makes this clear from the very first cutscene and commits to it the rest of the game and all the way up to Jak X. 3 and X softened some of the extra edge Jak II had (still never had as much as people say), establishing an easily identifiable Jak. Regardless, the last three games by Naughty Dog are still tonally consistent, which translates to 3/4. And TPL's happy go luckiness is so heavily exaggerated. That game's tone isn't far off from Shadow of the Colossus. A lot of TPL is desolate, empty, and depressing. The only thing really saving the same is the fact that it has multiple colors, since to people colors are inherently positive and heartwarming. Change the game's color palette and watch people have a whole different perspective of the game.
Tbh I never saw it as a identity crisis.
Man everyone forgets about the Daxter game lol. However, one thing about J&D that that wasn’t touched on in this vid was the technical advancements that haven’t even really been replicated today. And that’s the fact that there is no loading. Jak 1 had a seamless world. Jak 2 and 3 were masked and Haven City may have been smaller compared to the cities in GTA but again, there wasn’t any loading.
And even without loading they look fantastic compared to anything of that era in open world.
That is an interesting discussion you said. I still enjoy the Jak & Daxter trilogy looking back, but you do make a great point why the series have a bit of an identity crisis back then, like how RWBY and the Sonic series have lately.
But I do have to give credit as during the PS2 era I also got to get into other series like Sly Cooper, Ratchet & Clank & Kingdom Hearts as I know what series they want to be. Plus Jak & Daxter did have it's DNA in Spyro: A Hero's Tail & Crash Twinsanity.
@Games Yeah and with RWBY Vol 7 & 8, it is trying to be a mix up of a Star Wars Prequel & Injustice
Sonic is mostly fine. It's the padding (which apparently stems from financial reasons) and lazy use of classic Sonic that's the issue.
@@windy3935 Okay then.
@@windy3935 The modern Sonic games very much lack identity
@@trajectory7235 Only a couple of them, and even then it's a mixture of other issues that makes it seem like its identity issues.
The precursor legacy is still one of my favorite games to this day. Even as a kid I always felt that the jump from the first to second game was extremely unnatural, to me it never really felt like the games went together cohesively to make a trilogy. I often wonder what the Jak games would be like if they didn't pull a massive time skip into the future.
It feels like Jak 2 tried so hard to be edgy that they would intentionally misspell it as "edjy" to show of its own edjiness. It was pretty evident in the characters' names, such as Torn, Krew, Kor, Praxis, Razer, etc.
In a perfect world, this is what I’d do with the franchise:
- A new rebooted trilogy of games that all follow the ideas and gameplay of the first game
- A sequel trilogy which follows the gameplay of Jak 2 and 3
6 games in total. This way we get the best of both worlds, new games similar to the first which can really focus in on the 3D platformer elements while also developing Jak 2 and 3 into a more fleshed out trilogy
That way they could transition into the style of the later games more gradually.
Fuck yourself if you want a reboot.
There are a lot of problems with that idea in 2022.
Firstly, The Jak games haven't sold very well. Committing to 6 more games when the franchise is lucky to have 1 major success in a market that has moved on is risky in the best condition. Even if Trilogy 1 is a success, you have no guarantee that its audience will be interested in Trilogy 2. Like, look at Assassin's Creed. It recently shifted to a Witcher inspired RPG form and many of its previous audience dislike that. Call of Duty had a string of futuristic games from 2012-2017 and many disliked them so much that COD went back to a Boots on the Ground Model. So when you establish a franchise as like a Mario 64 inspired Collectathon and then after 3 games, pivot to a story heavy GTA meets Tony Hawk Meets Ratchet meets Mario hybrid, you will likely turn some of those earlier fans off.
Secondly, even if you go with the 2 trilogy approach, you'll likely split the fanbase even further. Currently, it's split between Jak 1 and Jak 2/3 fans. If you make the first trilogy focused on Jak 1, you alienate Jak 2/3 fans that have been waiting for their game.
Thirdly, devloping a trilogy itself is also not feasible because of how intensive and difficult game development is now. As an example, Santa Monica recently announced that their plan for a new God of War trilogy starting with God of War 2018 is now a 2 game series just so the story could be finished in a reasonable amount of time since each game takes 5+ years to make now. Ubisoft used to make a new Assasin's Creed game a year and now have to push it to 1 every 3-4 years after Unity's terrible launch. Even assuming a 3 year cycle per Jak game and that nothing goes wrong during that time, it means that trilogy 1 will span an entire console lifespan and it will take 18 years for all 6 games to come out. And that's the best case. It's more likely that enforcing a trilogy means each game gets less time and resources than if each game was more standalone.
And fourthly, how do you make 2 more games for each style of Jak game? Jak 1's style is already considered retro with Indie games replicating it. So how do you make a trilogy of Jak 1 games while making each game iterate and improve on what came before in 2022? In something like Mario's case, they accomplished it by having pretty big gaps in between their games and giving each new 3D mario a new gimmick like Water in Sunshine, Planets in Galaxy and Cappy in Oddyessy. And even then, it helps that it was Mario branding the games so they would have sold well regardless of their quality. And Jak2/3 are filled with so many conflicting design deciesions that making a trilogy from them means either continuing with the Kitchen Sink, in which case, the games continue not having an identiy, or you double down on a few ideas like the GTA style gameplay, in whuch case, you remove that excessive vaerity many Jak 2/3 fans like, and you have to compete with GTA directly.
Personally, I think Jak should remain dormant. There's nothing it really brings to 2022 that makes it unqiue and worth playing over other games. If I want to play a fun collecathon platformer, there's Mario. If I want to play any number of good shooters, they're there. If I want to play a racing game or Skateboaridng game, those are covered as well. Why play a Jak game with a mediocre execution of all these ideas when I could play indivudal games that flesh out all these systems?
But if Jak must come back, my only suggestion is to lean into that craziness with a reboot. Make it an early 2000s style throwback. That way, the janky gameplay is framed as "an endearing aspect of an earlier area" rather than janky gameplay. Though it would also be better to try focusing on just platforming and GTA style gameplay at most to get that focused gameplay.
@@FraserSouris you're right it would be extremely difficult to reboot the jak franchise if not impossible to do this. But let's say hypothetically The Jak games gets an reboot, i would say it has to be developed by an team as passionate and talented as Insomniac Games.
Imo I think Insomniac Games might be the only ones to "revive" the jak games but who knows
@@hypernel1798 It wouldnt even be hard nowadays to make a clone of the games with some changes. If i was less lazy and hated technical problems less I would take time to learn to dev solely for purpose of making a sims clone and jak and daxter clone. Sims in particular I find bewildering in same way as Battlefield. Both are severely mistreated unique games but dont have high quality copycat games being made.
With this video I finally realize why I like Jak and Daxter so much. Specifically Jak 3. You explain how much of a melting pot it is by being a 3rd person shooter, a racer, a platformer, a combat racer and a skateboarding game. Because Jak was one of my first game series ever it's melting pot behavior allowed me to hone in on the genres of games that I like. After Jak 3 I went on to play Ratchet and Clank, GTA, NFS, Burnout, Destruction Derby Arenas, Twisted Metal, Crash, Prince of Persia and Tony Hawk. The Jak and Daxter series allowed me to figure out a bunch of different that I would like and for it's discovery I love the games. They were my first experience with these different genres and if I never played them I never would have had the itch to scratch to play all of these types of things again.
This seems to be a trend in general, back in the early days every Dev tried to copy GTA, a generation later every game tried to copy COD, nowadays trend is copying Fortnite or Brs in general.
I was a big fan of TPL, I played it as a kid, and I've beaten it countless times. It's really the atmosphere and the art that get me. Strangely Asian inspired culture, spooky alien looking temples, monsters... really a one of a kind feel that they never got back. Honestly, I agree with you 100% and share your experiences. I could never finish 2. It was too hard when I was young, and now that I'm older I just find it disappointing as I compare it to TPL. I refuse to play 3 until I beat 2, and racing until I beat 3. I did get TLF for my PSP, and to be honest I kinda liked it. It was very technically limited given the PSP's hardware, but it was honestly fun to play. Haven't beaten it yet, but I don't think there are any huge turns for the worst part way though.
The first game is s one of my favorite games of all time. I miss that open world collect-a-thin feel.
I liked Jak 2 for combining platforming and GTA style gameplay
but.... it was the only thing like GTA my parents would let me have at the time which may have made me like it more than i would otherwise have!
Could you go further into detail on why you consider The Lost Frontier to be one of the best in the series?
Because of how much fun it is
Jak 2 had a more fun open world than any AC or Far Cry so far. I'd rather go back to the same bar/building to get my quests than visit 2 million unimportant, blah areas with thousands of markers showing loot that only has value to the biggest nerds.
I don't necessarily think its a sin the none of the games in the trilogy are really comparable to the others. You make a good point about the ideas and concepts being all over the place causing a lack of focus, but as someone who grew up on these games I don't think it made the games all too bad. I don't think its bad that they chose to innovate rather than iterate, I kinda see the whole series like a triple jump in the Olympics if that makes any sense.
I actually disagree with a lot of your issues with the games tbh. Like, a large amount. lol
Ill just say I definitely agree Keira was done super dirty and Jak 2's checkpoints made me wanna unalive so much.
I also replay The Precursor Legacy like... nearly monthly lol
For the life of me I cant really find the words to describe WHY I disagree. Like to me after recently replaying Jak 3 I didnt feel that tonal whiplash nor did I feel like the game lacked focus. I guess those minigames felt like lil breaks from the usual format.
I really liked your viewpoints, great video. I think that a lot of what I liked about the series was nostalgia, I played these three games on release day and they were really fun, but at the same time I was definitely disappointed with how everything changed in Jak 2 like you said. Jak 2 and 3 still had good lore, characters and story. If I had to sum it up, each Jak game is good, but the series as a whole is very inconsistent. Some of it was in their control, some may not have been, but it was definitely worth playing through. For me I'd say Crash ≈ Jak > Uncharted >>> Last of Us
I love the Jak games with Jak 3 being my favorite.
But I'm impressed they made a good GTA like game within 2 years. When it plays well and is fun. When a series takes a more dramatic and edgy turn the results are normally disastrous.
But Naughty Dog made it work. As a kid, I was like 10 when Jak 2 came out and thought that was the most badass thing I've seen.
Playing though it does have it's flaws. That being said I think the mixture Jak of all trades gameplay is why it's hard to do a true sequel.
The Trilogy story wrapped up perfectly. Also it's would be harder for a studio to do an open world GTA type game since the open world market is saturated.
Like compare to Ratchet and Clank and even Crash Bandicoot. Like both are more linear games with a defined gameplay formula. Thier stories are more open ended so both series can go indefinitely. Why both series have so many games.
"i kind of dont like jak and daxter much"
me: aight imma head out
I honestly think these games were all good and I love them to death but hey that's my opinion I just wish they made a new Jak 4 and everything you said that could be better they can fix it with the new console capabilities also I love your channel bro you talk about stuff that everyone ignores in games and I respect that (ohh heads up for your Rift apart video You might be abit right about Ratchet being sidelined)
Ohh and I hated the Mini Games in Jak 2/3 I just try forget they exist just play the story for the shooting and combat and Jak's cool voice aha
I don't think a Jak 4 with new tech would have fixed the series since tech doesn't fix a messy design
@@FraserSouris I believe the same way, hell it should of had " What if scenario " sequels.. Mainly being subversions of taking the idea of " what if we continued the platforming focus and story? " A story that tells a different time line as, since there is time traveling it would be able to accept this is a different timeline and build an equally as appealing work there. One main follow up, one side series follow up. Like like Persona and the Shin Megumi Tensei series where it starts off as a spinoff, but branches into a series with its OWN DESIGN AND LORE.
@@FraserSouris ok hater
Jak and Daxter needs a reboot
Agreed
I would really like to see a sequel from 1 but with the same tone and gameplay mechanics (expanded obviously), it would be interesting...
A very intersting take coming from a guy who knows the stories but has yet to playa my game. I have a friend who is a huge Jak fan but I see a series without consistency. I am curious about that PSP game Daxter nobody has ever talked about it so I don’t know if it’s a hidden gem or the equivalent to Size Matters
I liked Size Matters on the PSP lmao
I quite like Jak and Daxter, such a shame it never got a sequel.
I still go back and play the trilogy at 30 years old, my personal favorite duo from the early 2000’s. Those 8 year old kids are a prime example of young people thinking they’re older than they are, also despite kids playing GTA it’s still made for mature audiences (not 8 year olds).
I loved jak 2 lol. I remember being a kid a d thinking that tone shift was the coolest unexpected thing ever
Just asking for no reason but TBP wouldnt happen to have also done a starfoxathon and classic mega man series review a few years bacK?
You're asking the wrong questions. TBP didn't do those things. Besides, TBP isn't my name. That's just the channel. Call me Tac or Kris.
Right so did tac happen to do a mega man series and crash series a few years ago I tend to binge?
No, Tac did not. But once again you're not asking the right questions. If you're asking "have I ever gone by a different handle" then the answer is yes. But that's a past that's dead and buried.
@@TBP ah ok gotcha glad to see ur still going strong tho
It's funny. I remember GTA 3 being a thing and I thought it was one of the worst games I ever played bc of the core gameplay mechanics it had. A lot of the gameplay mechanic issues you explained with these games I felt gta 3 had. I honestly didn't start liking gta until gta 4. I mean gta vice city and gta san andreas were decent games too, but had their issues. The jak games to me were cool and I liked the change each game had. There was a lot of charcter development with jak and dexter. The games were all unique in their own ways. I'll agree that jak 2 felt really messy with some of the game mechanics and 2 and 3 had some missions that felt super annoying to do and could've been left out. Tho they were good games with good story overall. I think all 3 games are in desperate need of a remake tho.
I can see that, but for me Jak 2 and Jak 3 fixed many of the issues GTA 3 had like its so clunky autoaim system that makes everything feels like a rail shooter, i even prefer GTA 2 gameplay because of that.
There are still others that bothers me though, especially in Jak 2, where the driving is so narrow and the vehicles are even more weaker than GTA 3.
Does a game *need* to have only one antagonist? Only one enemy faction that opposes the playable character(s)? That's a bit too far to judge jak 3 for how many villains it has. Why bother talking about 3's multiple antagonists when 1 and 2 did relatively similar acts of curtain pulling..?
So you completely missed the point I was trying to make. A game can have multiple villains. One of my favorite games is Infamous 2, that game has a couple of antagonists. What Jak 3's problem is, it sets one character up for the entire game as the main antagonist, only to have him chumped out suddenly. All for the sake of a comedy moment that didn't work for me. It's not a matter of multiple villains, it's a matter of properly paying off what you set up. It would be like if The Beast in Infamous 2 was chumped out three missions before the end, and the final boss was just some guy.
Hey TBP, I've seen quite a few of your videos now (not sure how'd I prove it) but I absolutely loved your twisted metal black video. Now I'm not sure if you mean to go all in on certain points to get an audience to engage or not but it worked for me. I am not some one who likes to voice themselves on the internet but did so here. I have always been on the edge of deciding to subscribe to your channel and became really close with the Twisted Metal Black video. That video took me to when you were a kid playing the game that you got from your brother; it was like experiencing it first hand and that's what I'm usually chasing when looking for things to watch on youtube. Now that doesn't mean everyone on youtube should make positive portals. But when a decision is made to criticize media and some of the points feel off then fans of the media are disconnected. I don't discount you playing the series recently and forming the opinion you did. I believe negative content inherently has a handicap. There is another youtuber who made a video on the jack and daxter series (breadsword) that gave me the experience as watching your twisted metal video. His video is in the opposite spectrum from this one but there are points in there that show the series was thematically cohesive. I think an amazing video would be somewhere between yours and his. Hope you have a good one TBP. I'm going to continue to stick around and wait for the next video you make to give me the same high as the Twisted Metal.
ps. did you play Wild 9 back in the day? It feels like you've been playing all the games I did as a kid.
Coincidentally I actually just bought Wild 9 on a whim a couple months back. I only played a bit of it but I do want to find time to beat at one of these days.
I think my biggest problem with Jak II was Erol. From the very beginning of the game he just hates Jak, there's no explanation why, and there isn't a given reason until he shows up at Keira's zoomer garage with a love triangle.
He was winning races, he was "stealing" Kira from Erol, he was considered hope for the city and he clearly hated that, and to round it all out he was in the underground, enemy to the krimson guard.
For any fans of the Jak and Daxter games, there is currently a fan made Jak and Daxter 4 fan game being worked on. By a team of volunteer devs and fans under the name of Fallen Legacy Games.
I believe that the only way this story can truly move forward is for them to find/rebuild the Time Machine. Go back in time to when we opened the rift gate and the metal heads raided earth. Take the guns out introduce new weapons and uses for eco all while somehow maintaining the movement and tight platforming of the first three games.
A full blown reboot would definitely alienate a lot of fans, but it's the only way to bring the series back.
Too bad Naughty Dog doesn't make video games anymore.
@@freshboy3968 They still make video games, just more of what people want in the modern era, which is Western games. Same with Insomniac Games (aside from the "Ratchet & Clank" series) and Sucker Punch Productions. Unless a miracle happens with video game adaptations that are becoming more of a thing in PlayStation Productions, they aren't returning to cartoony games.
If you mean cartoony and arcade-like games ("Crash Bandicoot", "Spyro", and "Rocket: Robot on Wheels"; even "Ape Escape" from Japan Studio) in the fifth generation, then yeah, those days are pretty much over. Even Nintendo ditched the Lives system with "Super Mario Odyssey" and "Kirby and the Forgotten Land". Games are focusing more on story now. Heck, even after the OG PS era, Sony slowly transitioned to games that focus on story ("Jak and Daxter" with its identity crisis, "Ratchet & Clank", "Sly Cooper", et cetera) in the PS2 era. Not necessarily a bad thing for the newer generation, but the older generations are becoming less and less relevant within time.
Indie games seem to be the alternative for cartoony and arcade-like games, though that's often rare these days.
Jak II missions is easy, but the checkpoint system is kinda hard, if u fail u have to do everything again.
I think for first players isnt easy though. Im consider good at videogames and my first time was a bad time. Now i find it easy, like Dark Souls players that completed it tons of times would find also easy.
This series made me a gamer when I was 9... I would buy a remake, a reboot, a sequel, anything!
I don't know how this guy can say he doesn't like Jak 1-3...... deranged lol XD
If Jak 3’s gameplay was in the sequel it wouldn’t have been so polarized. There was way way better, eco powers and melee in the 3rd game like the first.
huh, Precursor Legacy was one of my first videogames (mustve been 3-4 years old), loved the whole series growing up
But I'm about to be 23 now & agree with most of these points. Playing through Jak 2 & 3 nowadays makes it easier to be more critical of standout questionable things, like the angst meter being cranked up to oblivion (& daxter's constant relentless horny moments are definitely interesting)
levels focusing on combat but only a select few enemies are tough, while Jak 2's checkpoint system just seems broken
Gunplay is slightly awkward in 2 but they somewhat overcompensated in 3 by adding comedically stronger guns, on top of the crazy amount of light+dark powers you therefore rarely ever need (light jak Flight is underwhelming and required for a total of maybe 30 seconds, dark Invisibility feels meaningless, etc.)
Flying back & forth between ends of the cities / desert also gets sleepy after a while
Platforming never seems to reach far beyond double jumps, big trampoline jumps & pole swinging (but I do like some of the Jetboard grinds/ platforming)
& the story is a rollercoaster of things happening but seems under-baked in cohesion, like 3's antagonists, or just not enough time given to get attached to characters, or plot holes like Ashelin's authority, or Keira's character slowly evaporating, or Jak going from "this city is worth fighting for" to "they can rot for all I care" just to instantly switch again (but seriously, Cyber Errol is such a dork of a trilogy final boss)
When you realize how drastically they curved directions for Jak 2, it's not hard to imagine the amount of fresh different stuff they could've added to make a sort of "Precursor Legacy 2" instead of the Jak 2 we currently have, expanding on the interconnected world, eco powers, parkour, platforming, puzzles etc. Maybe even getting away with a slightly darker tone, just without Jak himself being so '2000s emo rock edge'. I still like the trilogy but its missed potential definitely hurts
edit: damn this vid made some people very salty.
"Let's be civil here people,"
Me: Sadly puts the pitch fork down
When do you think you’ll do a review on Rift Apart?
Look at the community section on his channel. He makes a statement regarding it
Gameplay wise, sure, 2 and 3 are messy. But there was no mention of how compelling and original the story felt for Jak 2. The story telling, though childish at times, was brilliantly done. I've found myself just watching the cutscences for recreation recently, that's how I ended up on the Jak & Daxter side of CZcams.
I got my hands on J&D 1 when I was 13 and I loved it and I will admit J&D 2 felt different from 1 but I still loved it and to be honest I like it more than 1 and this is not nostalgia talking since I replayed the games a little while ago and still had fun. This is my favorite series ND has made.
TBP, could you make a video on the original Ratchet and Clank PS2 games?
You know as much issue as I see with these games upon retrospect, I still have a lot of respect for the balls it took to just take their kid friendly adventure platformer and just nosedive it into the "mature audience" pool and worked out what they had for story and such around that singular idea. Absolute gamble but I suppose it passed for a lot of people.
it still has the best character animations till this day IMO
Jak 2 was one of the first games I EVER played and I have so much nostalgia for it
Jak 2 was amazing and Jak 3 rounded it out. I think their gamble worked, I’m glad these games exist as a sort of crossover genre, but yeah, it wasn’t going to last. Would be interesting to see it be revived now though, since people seem sick of gritty hyper realistic “me too” games
I have a lot of fond memories with the Jak and Daxter series, I didn't really get bored with any of them, frustrated for sure, but I enjoyed them. I'm actually replaying jak 3 currently
the Jak and Daxter series is one of the few series that actually needs a reboot.
take the story of a village boy collecting artifacts that ends up in bad situation where he has to save the world and deals with dark themes over the course of multiple games with a coherent and connected plot
I love this trilogy to pieces. It's underrated for It's technically quality and every title has something to offer. But it had to be the series that bridged the old and the new. Compared to Ratchet and Clank, which was a series that was still cartoony but with more mature jokes and slowly became more dramatic. Jak and Daxter went from a lovable 2D platformer, to a dark and dramatic action flick. Not exactly a smooth transition regardless of the high quality.
THANK YOU I always felt like I was the only one who thought The Last Frontier wasn't that bad, hell, I found it more fun than 2 in some aspects because the colored Eco powers from the first game actually came back and they aren't useless like the dark Jak from 2 and 3, I like all games and I remember playing them in order growing up, but unlike ratchet and clank, I've never really came back to 2 and 3 while I kept going back to the first game multiple times. Last year I replayed all games in order and I remember finding 2 extremely frustrating, not bad, but just very annoying in some parts. The 3rd game was fine most of the time but I despised how the cars handled in that game, you can't control them decently because they will fly and lose handling at every little sand dune you drive on. However I really really enjoyed TLF because while the story wasn't that great and dark daxter is incredibly stupid, it doesn't really harm the core gameplay, I loved flying around completing the missions in the different hubs, I liked the colored Eco powerups and the level design as well, it wasn't perfect but it wasn't that travesty of a game everyone make it out to be and I believe because people just played the PS2 port wich is incredibly awful compared to the PSP original.
Bottom of the line, yeah I loved J&D and I enjoyed playing the games but I always found some aspects of them that really didn't made me want to go back to them unlike the R&C or Sly games and I think it's because I've never liked GTA in the first place and I'll never will.
That is a fair assessment, for me I disliked TLF because of how the game PLAYED. Story was dumb, we ain't gonna argue that (though good on Keira getting character again!) Dark Daxter is an idea they should have scrapped entirely (maybe focus on improving game feel? Like some games played different due to PSP and later conversion to PS2 but Head-On kind of shows how that is an invalid arguement when it comes down to actually making the game play feel good to play). Like yes, I LOVE the Eco Powers becoming a thing again and while guns weren't as solid as, say, Jak 3 (where that gunplay was arguably at it's best) it wasn't so much of a dealbreaker though how the game played felt far too STIFF. Like it legit feels like your jump isn't as good as it could be, your roll not as solid, etc. It is the same problem I had with Size Matters but not as egregious as that game.
could you argue that Naughty Dog started following the trend of games that are trying to be like movies?
The funny thing is that had Naughty Dog not gone with the direction that they did with Jak & Daxter, then Uncharted wouldn't have perfected platforming as a human character.
Your point in the the first 7 mins can explained by the factors you mentioned, as well as compounded with the demise of Sega'a console division and Nintendo's misguided actions during the GC/Wii /Wii U eras that caused them and inturn collectathon platformers, to fall out of relevance.
Jak and Daxter just needed a sequel in that fantasy aesthetic before going edgy.
I’ve seen a lot of people compare Jak with Rtachet in this sense of identity crisis and stuff and I can see why, however both of them in my opinion did do stuff way better than each other Ratchet was more consistent while Jak had it’s story end with a payoff
I always confused Rachet and Clank with Jak and Daxter and vice-versa but I always known about Rachet and Clank but only known of Jak and Daxter in passing.
The earth being flat in Lost Frontier was contradictory. The third game clearly established that space exists and that the planet has a center.
i wish there was an interquel that takes place during and after the events of the first game, but....i'm not sure if it would work.
I agree the first game is the best one. I didn't like the fact that they're tryna capitalise on GTA's success by making a bland and repetitive sandbox game with Jak II. Jak 3 I actually thought was alright but I understand where you're coming from because the game does feel like a mini-game collection with way too many gimmicks.
It's a no brainer why games like Ratchet and God of War sold so well because they knew what they wanted to be.
Even after the Jak series Naughty Dog still focus on hopping on the biggest trends rather than tryna to bring something interesting to the table. Gears of War was pretty popular during the late 2000s so Naughty Dog decided to make their own cover based shooter similar to Gears with Uncharted.
And now they're a company known that makes movie like games.
Even if Jak 2 and 3 they are like GTA "clones", for me they surprassed it.
I’m pretty sure Gears of War and Uncharted were in development at the same time even if Gears released first
Is it stupid to think I played 2 first, back in 2004/5, then 3 in 2007, and only got a copy of 1 in 2011 at a gamestop. All without viable internet access to know what the other games were.
I prefer the later 2 games over the first but I see your point.
I think a reboot would be the best option but it's still a gamble.Reboots are anything goes and the developers can't serve every faction of the fandom. They are gonna pick and choose what they want and leave the rest.
Instead of the GTA direction, I think legend of Zelda would've been a good model. Each new game has a land to explore and new problems to overcome.
Ironically Sonic Boom would've been better off as a Jak and Daxter reboot. Maybe just get those guys to come in and do it? They could use a win after Sega screwed them over.
An FF7R style remake could work but that overlaps with a reboot to me.
The Lost Frontier has similar problems to Thieves in Time but I think the Lost Frontier's issues are easier to fix.
Can't wait for a Jak 4 if it ever comes out. Lost my shit when I found out there was a precursor orb game on the app store
Maybe its nostalgia talking but I can go back and play the series and enjoy it 9/10.
Admittedly, I don't think I actually like PL as much as I do 2 and 3 which probably might be because I played those first and only got around to the original game the year before last. I can acknowledge that it is a beautifully designed game and it really is impressive at what they were able to achieve but much like Mario Galaxy, I can't really get into it the same way I can get into other games of the genre and the tighter focus in the sequels, plus the harder difficulty just make them more appealing to me (moreso in Jak 2's case than Jak 3).
I do feel kind of bad saying that though since I really don't agree with them just changing up the series to follow trends instead of sticking with their guns and I hate the fact that fans of the first game lost what could've potentially been another great collectathon series to play.
This is a good critique without being offensive, a hard thing to do. And these are my favorite games, but i can hear what your saying and it makes sense. Growing up with these games though has cemented them in my memory as something awesome and i always felt bewildered by how radically they changed things from game to game.
Here's thing about the serious this is the 2nd game is the game that got heavily censored by Japan apparently they got so shocked by the tone change they felt the need to censor it despite the tone being somewhat tame.
I was 10 when Jak 2-3 come out. I was one of those kids playing GTA (trying just drive when my parent look at the TV). And even with that age, I remember think about the inconsistency of the 2 and 3 games. I was just a kid but still remember to ask "wtf now is just Jak in the title". Of course nobody cares, they were hyped about the dark Jak and the weapons. I know some people love that kind of changes, but for me where a no sense at the moment, even I was 10.
Also I think is importan to value the relationship with Inmsoniac. Both were super close (guess why both Racket and Jak have a little friend). But clearly in the first game of each franquise, one was more tied to the past while the other trully understood better what have to do. Naughty Dog tried to compesate that in the following games. They decided not to be outdated at any cost. Even paying the coherence of the franquise as price.
Identity crisis!?!?! That's why I liked it!
I like 1 and 3. I think 2 is TOO DIFFICULT.
I really hate the “DO THE MISSION NOW TIL YOU SUCCEED” mantra of J2 and 3. The first game was so open.. how could they destroy the saga like that?
>Didn't even review Daxter but would review the other PSP title "The lost frontier"
Ok
Well A, this is not a review, and B, I was playing the PS2 version of The Lost Frontier, I don't own a PSP nor do I own Daxter.
I disagree with nearly everything, but I will agree on the aiming not being the best and you explained why perfectly. I also agree in Jak 2 you die way too easily and it was a very frustrating game at times, but I loved it still. I get that it was kinda insane that they switched from Jak 1 original style to the GTA one, but imo it worked.
Yea, criticism wise you were kinda spot on but for what it introduced for the time it came out truly did make for a great series and still is personally a must play.The boss fights of the second game were really memorable for me.
idk I think Jak 2 is transparently inspired by GTA, but I think combining and open ended 3D platformer with a proper sandbox is a really interesting concept, and the game has great voice acting and animation. Jak 3 loses me but I still hold that Jak 2 is a fun mess and not a bad sequel to the first game despite the complete overhaul.
Aw. No mention of the Daxter PSP spin-off
This is the opinion of someone who wants consistency whereas most Jak and Daxter fans love creativity which is what the series mainly is creativity like he said 10 games in one and it all fits perfectly and we get this amazing story with a fandom that still crying for Jak 4 20 years later. I don't agree with this guy because he's consistent and not creative
Unironically for a series that used to be called a "GTA clone" back when open world was still in it's "Doom era," it remains the one platformer that's essentially GTA on crack. There's not a single other game that's basically a GTA platformer. Such a combination was a bold choice then, and it's a bold choice now. It satisfies a niche most studios would not really dare dabble into these days.
I can agree on some things I can disagree on many. But the stand out being Precursor Legacy bland? now thats kinda harsh. the statement ignores the unique setting, the feel of the movement and gameplay, And the intriguing mystery behind the precursors. Yeah the sequel threw out all identity. but that's why 3 tried to blend things back together with a few issues here and there. Overall okay video and I can agree to disagree here
I said "maybe a bit bland"
The implication being that while I don't think this, I could see someone drawing this conclusion. Because that was once my opinion on it before I replayed it and actually found it to be a very enjoyable game.
Never have I ever felt the stabbing pain of the double edged sword that is freedom of speech like I did watching this video. I would pay any amount of money to have this video taken down so that this poison doesn't get to anyone else's ears.
Exaggeration much?
Dont get me wrong, Jak and Daxter is a masterpiece in my eyes and I disagree with a lot of what he said.
But in the end of the day that's how he sees it and feels towards it.
Isn't it a bit disrespectful to throw out a man's opinions and hard work making a video on a topic he feels strongly towards just because you disagree?
Bruh even Naughty Dog themselves have agreed with that statement.
This is actually one of the reasons cited by Naughty Dog themselves why the Jak and Daxter series never took off the same way its peers like Crash Bandicoot and Ratchet did. Because in their own words, they "threw the kitchen sink" at Jak. It had Platforming like Crash Bandicoot, but also gunplay like Ratchet, driving and racing like racing games, and an open world like GTA3 and skateboarding like Tony Hawk. Plus a ton of one off minigames. The end result was a series of games pulled in so many directions that few were satisfied. For example, if you were a fan of GTA3, you wouldn't like Jak 2 as much because the open world gameplay was limited and much of the game was platforming and linear driving missions. If you were a fan of Tony Hawk games, you wouldn't like Jak 2 as much because you had to play through a lot of platforming, driving and shooting levels to get to the skateboarding levels which were pretty short. And if you were a fan of platforming, well, only 1/3rd of your playtime in Jak 3 would be platforming. If the Jak games picked maybe 1 or 2 concepts max and built a game around them, then they'd likely be more popular. Like, Ratchet was built around platforming and shooting and it's doing great. Sly was built around platforming and stealth and it lasted longer. GTA was built on open world chaos and gunplay and loot at it. Tony Hawk went all in on Skateboarding so there's a reason why THPS 1, 2 and 3 are so fondly remembered but not the later games which added more fluff in.
I'm a diehard fan of this trilogy since infancy but the points he made are all valid and respectable. It's a good video and made me realise crucial things about the games.
@@FraserSouris stop fucking spamming
@@aliceinwonderland4395 I recommend TinyKin, It's a 3d platformer inspired by Ratchet and Jak.
I'd hardly call Errol, the rival character who shows up a fair amount in Jak 2, as a minor character in Jak 2. But good job misrepresenting him.
Jak and Daxter are like, the only Naughty Dog games I haven't played. I tried the first one way back in 2014 and even though I grew up on collectathons I just couldn't get into it. I've been meaning to give the sequels a try but this video does have me worried for them - I thought the Sly Cooper sequels felt like they had two little focus and you're telling me Jak 3 has less focus than those? :P
Great video essay, you're really well spoken about all of your points here to the point that I could understand your frustrations without actually having played Jaks II and 3.
I'm surprised you didn't talk about the Daxter games
i loved this series. going and playing it now is so weird, its so much different than what i remember
Jak and Daxter is a series i absolutely love and will always cherish it to the very one. If a reboot does ever come out I hope it combines elements from all original games. At least the main trilogy anyway. It’s pretty obvious that there was a lot of behind that scenes drama going on but there’s no denying it still worked so well. Who else agrees?
He mentioned kiera getting booted but didnt mention the voice actor changing, I think that had a part in why she wasnt as in it as she was in 1 and 2. Then she was a big player in x as well. Which kind of wraps up their story, (havent played the lost frontier though so god knows about that)
I'll always love the Jak series. It was one of if not the first game series I played growing up, and it will always have a special place in my heart. Not to say your reasoning aren't valid, the franchise did have its issues.
If the series ever does get remade, I'm not sure how I'd change The Precursor Legacy, but for Jak 2 I had an idea. That idea being to keep Eco powers a key gameplay function.
So obviously as the story goes, Jak loses his Eco channeling abilities after being injected with Dark Eco, and we all remember how little impact Dark Jak had on gameplay outside of certain moments where using him is recommended unless you want to deal with the level (water slums). So if a reboot were to keep that story aspect of Jak being pumped with Dark Eco, then instead of giving him guns, make it so he learns to harness the Dark Eco in him to create certain gameplay effects similar to the first game. He could use it to move faster like Blue Eco, or fire Dark blasts like Yellow Eco, and his Ult mode could be like using Red Eco, where he hits everything like a truck and one shots them. Dark Jak was so underutilized in the gameplay of the Jak 2 and 3, and though I'm no game designer, this is how I would like to to see it be more included. It would also work to constantly remind the player that yes, this is the same universe with the same Jak who can channel Eco, because you're constantly seeing it being used by him to fight and maneuver around like the first game.
That's just my take on it.
jake and daxter is my favorite game in fact I'll go as far as to say I want to buy the rights so I can redo the whole story after 1. even more of a thing my favorite story option is keep the time travel but you get teleported into a "nicer part" of Haven city and you slowly learn the whole place is corrupt then you taken in you also get to play some of daxter saving jak. but keep most of two just give it purpose I loved three but gotta scrap it my new story is the robot dude still but gal and maya show up like they said they would or you learn another way to go home after the robot but gal and maya escaped when you get back. idk but I love these games with a fiery passion