So, Why DIDN'T the Captains Use KIDO (or Anything...) Against the Sternritter? | Bleach Discussion
Vložit
- čas přidán 20. 02. 2023
- Support me on Patreon - / mrtommo2304
Beware manga spoilers in this video!
So...why didn't any of the Captains use Kido against the Sternritter in the first Quincy invasion? Or any ability outside of Bankai for that matter? In this video, we'll try to answer those questions as best we can - let's take a look!
#bleach #bankai #bleachmanga #bleachdiscussion #sternritter #aizen #bleachtybw #bleachanime #ichigobankai #yamamotovsyhwach #byakuyakuchiki
Support my new channel, MrTommoTalksGames - / @mrtommotalksgames
__________________
Welcome to my channel! If you're a Bleach fan, you're already in the right place for:
- Bleach manga videos
- Bleach discussions
- Bleach Brave Souls summons and reactions
- TYBW anime episode reviews
- Rankings
- Burn the Witch reviews and discussions
...and much more!
Get involved in the community:
Become a channel member: / @mrtommo2304
Follow me on Twitter - / mrtommo2304yt
Join our Brave Souls Guilds! Competitive - Wahrwelt23, Casual - Giftball23
Chat about Bleach on our Discord - / discord
Make sure to hit subscribe, explore the channel, and get involved in the discussion!
Subscribe animation credit - MrNumber112
For business enquiries: mrtommo2304@gmail.com - Zábava
So why didn't the Captains use Kido, or really any abilities, in the first Quincy invasion fights? What do you think of my theories, both in-universe and narrative? Let me know!
Spoiler warning
.
.
.
.
.
.
I really love your take on this arc being a "wake up call" for younger captains. One of them in particular doesn't seem satisfied with his own power and that's why I think he might become very, very strong : Tetsuzaemon
Kubo just Wanted to show us some emotion. Byakuya’s defeat,Kira’s death(?),All Shinigami’s death,Ichigo Desperately watching the deaths.
Just for curiosity, am I the only person who find the Bankai stealing method 100% bullshit? It never made sense to me, It contradicts everything that we knew before and found out after about the inner workings of a Zampakuto, and was only introduced to artificially made the Quincy invasion scarier and elevate the overall drama of the arc.
It makes way less sense that the stillsilver at the end, yet nobody complains about It. If Shikai and Bankai are two states of the same entity, how can you simply steal 70% of It and Shikai still works? Wouldn't It disrupt or even kill the entity Itself or even create a new being entirely? Does that mean that as long as 1% of your soul remains you still stand? And how can a Sternritter use the Bankai they've stolen? How they can simply bypass the Shikai that remains linked to the original owner?
It's a stupid Deus Ex Machina that brings more questions than answers, and I believe Kubo was aware of that and It's precisely why Zanka no Tachi wasn't ever brought up again, It was simpler to make the captains strong enough to defeat the Sternritter who stole their Bankai than to insist in that plot.
I think the absence of anything except Bankais is purely for plot reasons. Knowing that reshi constructs will not work is no excuse because even quincy need "some" time to decompose these things. It should also be possible to block attacks with barriers, even if the barriers get eaten in seconds, before that happens, they can at least block a projectile. It's a story after all. We may dislike logic holes but making up excuses wont close these holes. We must just accept that the story played out like that.
@@bigbangrafa8435 I honestly agree tbh. if we still run with the "blade is me" logic as canon then how can Quincies just steal a bankai which is simply the 2nd state of a shikai/a named zanpakutou? & a shikai/bankai is simply another part/manifestation of a shinigami's soul itself?
at the very least.. you'd think if you steal a bankai it goes without saying a shinigami can't do shikai either as both would be linked & thus stolen. but apparently not lol
Kubo should've included a page or two where Renji uses a small Kido technique and it gets absorbed, and then later chastised by Byakuya. Just an easy way to remind us readers that these techniques aren't being used for a reason.
Out of all Shinigami that should use Kido, you pick Renji? He sucks at kido. Momo would be a better pick, since she had already shown us her kido ability.
Renji isn't the best choice to use kido..
I would switch Renji with somone else, like maybe Soi-Fon or maybe Rukia, but otherwise I agree.
@@AgrestisAnima renji isnt the best option for kido sure but he is the best option to do something kinda hasty with not a ton of foresight due to the panic of seeing byakyua lose his stoicism
That would've been GREAT 👍
I have to admit that Byakuya and Kisuke not using kido during the whole arc even the second invasion and it not being adressed is really weird considering how much kido those 2 use.
I feel like a lot of Kisukes, kido that isn’t beam blasts would be broken down by the Quincy, like his seals.
Yeah but the Quincy can manipulate it’s kinda a hindrance
Isn't hado 90 and hado 99 stronger than a lot of captains Bankai, and is it more efficient?
@@joshshrum2764 then why didn't nanao just told them about her specialized Bakudo?
Urahara blasted Ope with a kido tho
Imagine Yamamoto saying "how are we supposed to fight them?" after Woderweiss seals his bankai.
🤣 ya that would look rather pathetic/embarrassing if Yama said that when his got sealed
lol
Imagine Yamamoto being relative to Wonderwiese. Or rather, imagine Wonderweise being nearly as strong, if not stronger than Yamamoto
Imagine comparing Yamamoto and Renji...
Yama said you just gonna get these hands now
Kido seems to usually only work if you're already at least a little stronger than your opponent. Unless you're Urahara.
I always wanted Tessai to join the final battle. Maybe the wisest person of a strong concept like Kido after Ichibei.(Ichibei broke Yhwach’s defence with Kido) During the FKT arc, when Don Konanji came, I first thought he was Tessai and I was excited.But ıt was Don Kanonji of course. During Turn back the Pendulum Arc, Tessai impressed me a lot. Unfortunately, Kubo completely forgot about this character. I hope we can see a little Filler battle in the anime (Small chance.)
Hopefully Tessai can be utilized more in the hell arc
@@gammafrost Fr. Kubo show dirty most character’s in TYBW. Hell Arc give him a chance to fix it
THIS is why I have no sympathy or respect for kubo, tessai is a kido master with reality warping powers and kubo reduces him to a damn housewife
sadly Kubo didn't gaf about Tessai in the manga after early Arrancar Arc he's pretty MIA. only in CFYOW he finally makes a cameo again chatting it up a bit with Shuuhei but that's literally it lol. I've always maintained that Kubo prob forgot about his character tbh
@@Crunchysopa52 It’s nice about Shuhei respect him as a Former Kido Commander
I’m always stunned by your ability to produce so much quality Bleach Content. I’m thrilled to see that sub number grow everyday!
Been following mrtommo for a little while now and I definitely agree. Not that I dislike the other youtubers that cover bleach, mrtommo is always on point with the content and the quality.
@@kentonplumlee4462 oh for sure. No shade to anyone, just amazed how he continues to have such high consistent quality. You’d think the man had millions of subs. Not the small (but STRONG) community he does have.
It’s amazing. Been here since before he had like 40k subs and he keeps getting better
I was disappointed in not seeing any kido halfway through the arc, but then I realized that Quincy manipulate the reishi around them to form their attacks. So really the sternritter could probably just absorb a kido the same way Kirge did to Ayon and the sands of Hueco Mundo.
YES. Good to see someone else noticed that he absorbed Ayon.... The thing most people don't see after that is the nonsense explanation for how they all get their Bankai back, which is to say we get told Hollow energy is basically poison to a Quincy....which is a pretty big contradiction....
It might even heal, and improve their strength because more reishi.
I still think it should have been shown a couple times during the fights if that's true. Without showing that indeed the quincies can absorb kidos, we're left to believe that the gotei 13 is full of idiots. And it's not like it would have taken much for Kubo to show it. He messed up here.
Literally everything in Hueco Mundo and the Soul Society is made of reishi though…Avery structure and creature. Technically they should be able to absorb everything around them.
@@t78907except for Aizen and his hado 99
Byakuya loves his Kido #4 so I was surprised we didn't see it
I don't think Kubo forgot about Kido. It was essential during the Aizen fight, and it was at least referenced during the Fullbring arc. Instead, I think the problem is that Kubo ran out of good ideas for it. Once he made a few spells he seemed to like, he mostly introduced new things to the system through incantations. Double, full, half, none, two in one, and so on. I think most of his good ability ideas went to zanpakto, so kido abilities were rare beyond a core few.
Not just ones he liked, out of the small handful of kido we actually get to see, there are a few that are just completely overpowered no matter how you look at it. The 2 biggest examples I think are Rikujokoro and Danku, both of which are extremely applicable in combat and neither of which seems to lose that much effectiveness if used without the incantation.
Rikujokoro can't miss (or at least we never see or hear of it missing) and will restrict all movement (except the mouth, basically) and Danku is a big ass shield that makes any offensive kido under 90 completely irrelevant (including both hado, as well as "directed" bakudo such as Hyapporankan or Sajo Sabaku, but probably not instant ones like Rikujokoro) .
So anybody learning Kido who didn't intend to rely primarily ON kido in combat (someone more melee focused, for instance) could in theory just focus ALL their time into learning Rikujokoro and Danku and smack the shit out of most opponents they come up against....
To be honest kido is still part of the manga, the technic of Yoruichi is kido based, not only Yoruichi, Soi Fon and Yoruichi brother they all use kido in their fight stile
Never been this early. Supreme watch again Mr Tommo. Always enjoy your vids.
That’s a damn good question. If I were them, I’d pull anything out my butt to stay alive
Always Wondered about this. I always imagined the other Quincies would use Reishi domination to absorb the Shinigami kido. Now Im probably thinking their Blut Vene would counteract it.
Didn’t Ichibei broke Yhwach’s Blut Vene with Hado?
@@mustafaozdemiroglu5853 I think so but Ichibei is Uber powerful though right?
@@mustafaozdemiroglu5853 he is on a whole different level
@@obrians-brown1307I think ıt’s About knowledge. Ichibei become a Special Threat because of his Wisdom.
His knowledge about Kido must be massive. I think Tessai can broke it too(Small chance but why not)
@@sonamngodup5708 Yeah he is
Biggest critique about Renji freakout over being unable to use bankai is... Szayel literally already did this to him already in the Hueco Mundo arc
It's a solid theory. If you wanna add to it, you can take Hitsugaya as an example for this and pre and post war Byakuya as well. I think Hitsugaya uses bankai in like almost every fight he's in. For what is suppose to be a shinigami's trump card, he's extremely quick to pull it out. Granted, he gets more and more abilities in his bankai but he spent so much time refining that instead of his shikai. On that note, look at Byakuya. After he gets his bankai stolen, he immediately goes to get a much deeper understanding of his zanpakuto and he gets a power boost so massive from that training that his new shikai is so massive that As thinks it's his bankai. They've grown extremely reliant on their trump card and it shows. Hopefully they take the lessons from this war to heart and train to understand their zanpakuto better in the future.
They do relies heavily on Bankai, and that make sense since it is their strongest arsenal.
Probably only Kido number 80 above are on par with bankai in term of power. Hakuda except Shunko most likely useless. While, Hoho isn't attacking option.
I mean based on what we see with Azien and how he took out a captain with bankai with a single sword swing and also a 33% hado 90(though the kido did take longer) we can guess that even the 90 kido are not on the same level of power since that implies a full hado 90 is only 3 times as strong as shikai where bankai is 5 to 10 times stronger(also the whole we see soifon do better with bankai than her complete shunko or even better with shikai than her incomplete shunko)
Edit - Rewatching it the hado 90 33% had the captain get back up from it in less than a minute if still bleeding and the other needed direct healing from unhohana described as emergency treatment
I've noticed this year's ago. They go into Bankai way to quickly in allot of fights especially Ichigo and Toshiro and it bothered me that the Captains didn't seem like they trained or rather like they weren't keeping up with their training at all prior to the Soul Society Arc which is why they got caught slipping
Well to be fair though, it is stated a few times through the series that Bankai is something that's hard to learn, but much much harder to master. With that in mind you have to consider that both Byakuya and especially Toshiro are relatively "young" Captains, meaning they haven't really had Bankai all that long. The Captains like Shunsui and Jushiro who've been around for hundreds of years and had a long ass time to master their Bankai, well they don't whip it out for just anybody. But the younger Captains who've had less chance to actually use Bankai in combat situations bringing it out more often, that makes sense. Training is one thing but practical combat experience with a technique is pretty much invaluable for long term improvements.
As for some of the other Bankai users who haven't really been around since Jesus was a wee lad either (unlike the big 3, Yama, Chojiro, etc...) but don't go using theirs all the time, a lot of that probably comes down to something between preferred combat style as well as some of their Bankai being highly niche and not necessarily practical for all scenarios (Unlike Byakuya and Toshiro, for instance, who's Bankai can be used in basically any combat scenario they come up against). Examples would be Kisuke, who's Bankai is kinda niche but who also prefers tactics/guile with heavy use of kido when fighting. Komamura, who's Bankai is really unsuited to anything other than just smashing the shit out of everything around you including possibly harming an ally...it's a bloody giant after all...
Well I could be reading into something that's not there and entirely wrong, but that's kind of my take on why some Captains (especially younger ones) seem to be quicker to pop off with their Bankai than others...
I would point out most of the current captains are young as hell like this for most divisions is like the 3rd captain in 300 years(and most of them have less than 100 years as captain) and we know that one of the main captains has improved it over 1000 years and if we assume he got his Bankai before chojorou he would have had it for close to 1000 years without fully mastering it any one power and only manifesting like two or even just 1 power of it in that time in weaker forms
we do see Kisuke use kido to take down a sternritter though he needed them to drop their blut Vein for him to do so and it didn't kill them and he is one of the stronger captains and most skilled at kido
for Bankai it like 10 years to get it and another 10 years to master the basic starting power you get so you can handle the massive power increase(and before that you should not use your bankai in battle)
the older captains are just more skilled. more powerful and so can afford to hold back their ace because their normal fighting or Playtime as Unohana called it is basically on the level that other captains would need bankai to have a hope in hell of matching if they could at all
I have another theory about why kido is scarcely used, not only in this arc but bleach in general. Narratively, it’s more interesting for each character to exhibit unique powers and abilities than for everyone to be using similar kido arts. Funnily enough, the period where kido is used the most is when Aizen becomes so overpowered with his shikai that the only way to make any fight with him interesting is for him to primarily attack with kido
Also, kido was never really explained, so any really convenient ability would be bs. And didn't reallt fit as its own power system without being broken or to weak. There are probably other reasons but this are some of the first i could think of
Yeah I mostly agree these explanations, it was a clumsy story beat but it has enough circumstantial infomation to make sense of it.
One aspect of it that I go back to is that the process of bankai stealing is somewhat traumatic to the soul itself the mere shock of losing bankai in that fashion would undermine any skillful action in the moment,it's like having a limb ripped out.
Again it makes Tessai's absence all the more glaring because if Nanao can do what she did then he should be able to do that to the nth degree
kubo kinda forgot kido existed lol
Kido was effectively forgotten about. Would've been really cool to see it used more often, especially since besides strength with their sword it would have been a great way to demonstrate the difference in overall strength from a pool of techniques that aren't exclusively locked to a single character as in the case with zanpaktou
I can understand and accept how the manga couldn't explain how the Quincy were a big threat during this invasion but it's disappointing they didn't show it in the anime.
I agree I wanted the at least first episode completely explain the war and get a true original fight sequence of the og Gotei and the Quincys however. We are not done and kubo has a tendency to show past events before the big battle . Ss arc rukia and renjis relationship tousen and komamura etc. Hurco mundo ichigos fear of his hollow rukias relationship with her former lieutenant. Ftk arc all the back stories af the arrancar and the aizens past etc. So to those who where a little disappointed like me at first . Just have some patience and faith. I was disappointed at first too but then remembered kubos track at back story in anime compared to manga. Also it is possible urahara's use of kido to bind aizen might have an effect on all kinds of kido since they are literally binding a god like being . Just food for thought.
While I feel like mentioning kido being ineffective against enemies who can take reishi freely at best or empower them as its absorbed at worst, even with an inner monologue from a captain or Kisuke, would have gone a long way to help people understand why kido wasn't used, but I innately understand that using kido was going to be a bad idea against the Quincy. I expected it to be demonstrated as a reminder with them casually absorbing Byakurai or a seal of some sort to grow stronger but when that didn't happen, I figured it was simply implied. As to why they didn't use their other techniques like shunpo to get in for more damaging physical attacks, I figured any such damage would be effortlessly nullified by their Blut Vene.
Due to this, I hadn't even considered it odd until I saw the title of this video, so figured I should watch it just in case you knew something I didn't with your comparatively colossal knowledge of the Bleach universe. Needless to say, I agree with your ultimate conclusion that this circumstance served several purposes to advance the story.
The anime NEEDS to address this somehow following the first invasion, since then they'll have time to prepare..
FINALLY!!!!!!!!!! Someone has talked about it. Thank you Tommo.
Omg this is a subject I’ve wanted a video on for so long! Before I watch this though, I’m sure it has something to do with the fact that the Quincy can absorb reiatsu so anything reiatu related would be meaningless. Anyways, I’m excited about this video so tysm 🙌🏼
You shared my thoughts exactly. Especially about the younger captains just using Bankai right away. I always thought it was weird how quick they went to it. When it’s supposed to be last resort. One more trick up there sleeve. Which showed how “green” they actually are.
I disagree out of opponents the younger captains fight who was below bankai level when seen the captains getting bodied in shikai. Hell even shunsui was getting his ass kicked what chance did soi fon have .
In that regard, I also wished to see the Quincies Equivalent of Kido called 'Ginto' or other 'Kirchelied'- Spells in Action by the Quincies as well.
Kido is valuable because it has a ton of utility, but pertaining to Sternritters , they didn’t need utility they needed to kill quick and efficiently. Bankai is the best utility when end goal is to murder.
I always wondered about this, but yeah your explanation does seem to make pretty good sense actually.
Perhaps if we get a hell arc, this will be rectified and we will see more kido used, and get to see the former Kido Corps Captain Tessai in action as well.
Please do a seperate video on kido spells cuz as you said,they are very much underutilized and i would like to see more kido spells in the fights
Beautiful explanation ❤️
Your videos butter my biscuits thank you
Buttered your biscuits ???? 😅
Not only kido, they suddenly forgot how to use shunpo/flash step... Not even hakuda is used in the battle...
Shunko is combination of Kido and Hakuda. It's used against BG9 and Askin, and it didn't work
@@dislikegiver5280To be fair, Askin’s deathdealing was hax bullshit and he can heal himself. BG9 was an armored robot and apparently already knew about Shunko and how to disable it. So they both got set up to fail by Kubo because he needed to punch this narrative that bankai is the only way to win so he could artificially raise the tension of the arc. This effectively made almost all VC useless as well.
Maybe the used some Kido techniques but Kubo didn't let us see it. Or as the captains could tell the level of their strength by their spiritual pressure, how strong they were, plus they need to gauge the skill levels too, like how quick they are or strong they are.
Don’t forget that the Quincy’s have been watching and studying the soul reapers for years and according to the novels all the Quincys with the those special gloves that can used their holy forms can all use sklaverei.
There's also a larger narrative link happening regarding Shinigami and their relationships to their Zanpakuto--a journey that both Renji and Ichigo need to go on but also one that we see echoed across captains of all ages. Zaraki discovers the nature of his own; Unohana reveals hers in a way that mirrors her true nature; Chojiro's is tragically lost; Yamamoto's burns with one last pyre, etc. etc. Just as the Yhwach and the Quincy challenge the bonds the Shinigami fight with, this sets up an angle for all of our characters to discover something new in those bonds and move forward with the final arc. It's a clever bit of tying the main character's journey to a larger crisis and, yeah, there is something lost by insisting on this flawed reliance on Zanpakuto, flawed relationships are entirely what the first invasion is about.
I never understood why the Quincy never even attempted to steal other captains' Bankai again. Even when multiple captains would still use it in the second invasion, before the hollow pills were used, it's almost like they forgot they could do that.
maybe they only had a limited number of those bankai stealing things. And when the Sternritter used them up and got it stolen back most of them were killed off pretty quickly. I don't think they had time to react and not enough Sternritter were left, that were strong enough to steal a capitains Bankai.
@@AgrestisAnima I mean, I think it would be pretty lazy writing to say they just ran out of the devices that could steal them.
@@donaldhughes6146 most of them stop used Bankai went the initial plan go wrong and some of them dont could use because had massive drawbacks.
By the time of the second invasion, Urahara has invented the Hollow Pillows so stealth Bankais is stupid
How would they attempt that? It's not something they control. They fight the captains, and if the captains live long enough to become desperate enough to use bankai, the Quincy will steal them. Besides, we only see a couple fights before Urahara shows up. Main ones being Shinji/Komamura vs Bambi, Omeada/Soi-Fon vs Bg9 and Toshiro/Rangiku vs Bazz-B and Cang Du.
they probably only had 13 + 1 for Ichigo. Even Rey Mysterio says that he thought only Captains had Bankai... also you have to think about the Sternritters that are left. If there are more Bankai's to steal then they'll have to choose wisely & even then you have to keep in mind if they'll be strong enough to steal them
Kido might just be one of my favorite concepts / abilities from any IP. SO. MUCH. POTENTIAL.
Huh I actually didn't realized that till it was mentioned here!!
Prolly because of how Quincies deal with their Spiritual Pressure of their surroundings of sort, plus of how some are near Godlike they are too...
Also unless you're by the likes of Aizen and Ichibe level, even you're a Captain level it probably not gonna work idk... 😅
To me, it was a matter of Quincies being able to manipulate riatsu really well, to the point it would be like throwing a snowball at them. Granted, it has been a few years since I read the manga, but that was what I always thought.
I just had this same conversation with my brother because he finally finishing bleach.
Best Bleach Channel
I would have loved to seen more kido used throughout the series 💯💯
I think Kubo just forgot or didn't care, since it wasn't "as cool" as sword fighting and bankai.
I can think of at least one easy way to hand-wave an in-universe explanation he could have used.
We know that the Wandenreich overlays the soul society, so one way to handwave this issue away would be to say that this overlaying disrupts the reishi balance or somesuch and thus kido either can't be used or is much weaker than usually. Just have a single person try to use kido, see it not working and then pass the message on to everyone else.
And if you want to undo it later, just have Kurosuchi science up some countermeasure for the later fights.
If Kubo really did make a meta-commentary it's rather ironic. After all it was Kubo himself who initially created bankai as really rare and "only few Shinigami ever gain this ability" and all that... only for pretty much every single named Shinigami to have a bankai not too long after... yeah, really rare and special... and then HE who wrote the story that way critizices that very state he created? oO
To me the over-use of bankai was always a problem the moment it reared it's head. By having them whipped out in nearly every fight any of the captains were in, bankai became just another normal technique like any other and lost that feeling of being special. So that the bankai are stolen and the captains have to use other abilities to fight was something I was very much in favour of... but it did feel rather lazily forced into the story with a minimum of shacky explanation. And to make matters worse the captains then don't really fight without bankai later, but instead they find a way to get the bankai back and they all defeat their opponents with the retrieved bankai anyway, rendering the whole exercise rather moot anyway.
While I think it’s great you were able to come up with logical reasons for the lack of using different abilities it is clear to me the reason is Plot Induced Stupidity or PIS which was needed for the heightened tension of this arc.
This begins with Yamamoto. Yamamoto states he believes his bankai can’t be stolen as they don’t know how it works since he never showed it before. This makes little sense given his VC wouldn’t have shown it before given he got it and never used it again. His VC would have had to do exactly what Yamamoto did which was explain it to them. His VC wouldn’t have known it could be taken but Yamamoto states that’s how he believes it is yet explains it anyway. An argument can be made that he thought once he defeats their leader they will all surrender or run away. But it’s just as likely they would steal his bankai take him out and destroy soul society just for revenge. What happened was even worse.
Then the captains we see get their bankai stolen in particular Byakuya and Soi Fon are even worse given their extensive abilities not using bankai. To think Yamamoto VC having his bankai sealed and then defeated means Byakuya forgot he was knocked out by Ichigo in the soul society arc with one hand effortlessly. There is no reason to believe Bankai is needed. Even if it is Renji offers his which makes more sense to have sealed as Byakuya is stronger than Renji. Why have the stronger person get weaker? Soi Fon was similar as her shikai takes people out with two hits and she shows a technique in soul society arc that increases her strength on top of her incredible speed. Maybe Hitsugaya and the other captain rush to use bankai even though Mayori is studying the Quincy abilities.
I hadn't thought much about the captains jumping straight to Bankai, but I have wondered why Byakuya didn't have Renji use his (much weaker) Bankai first, to see what would happen.
Here is the reasoning:
Gotei 13 thought the Sternritters _sealed_ Bankai. Not stolen, but sealed as in when a Captain is finished fighting and seals his Zanpakuto. Effectively merely preventing them from using Bankai. Like when Szayelaporro sealed Renji's Bankai in his special room.
The Sternritter had already "sealed" a Vice Captain's Bankai before. Byakuya maybe figured sealing a Captain's Bankai could be a different interaction. In any case, they had nothing to lose by trying. On the contrary: they might be able to see and figure out a way to stop the seals. Of course, the Sternritters didn't seal Bankai.
@@olo703 The funny thing is though, about Chojiro, is that he’s arguably stronger than most captains are (we never get to see that, but it’s implied). They should’ve known that every captain that wasn’t Yamamoto were at risk of having it stolen after his was taken (the vizards also weren’t at risk thanks to them being part hollow, but the Gotei didn’t know about that at the time).
@@yaboi2500 Chojiro was stronger than every known Captain not named Yamamoto or Unohana at one point, but not in the present. He basically took a vow of no participation in battles after he helped beat Yhwach. A millenia of rust build-up; compare it to the century of rust that Yoruichi had: went from Aizen level to Soi Fon level. Which explains why Ichigo could dispatch Chojiro so effortlessly.
About to watch the video, but I wonder if we have the same idea: using attacks composed of nearly pure reishi -- kidou -- is probably a non-starter against quincy.
I think Renji getting flustered is not as bad as it seems. His shikai couldn't get through AsNodt's blut. If he can't use his bankai, and his shikai is ineffective what was he supposed to do?
I have always theorycrafted a shikai and banzai which whole power is enhancing kido. Never fully settled on the design and mechanics but thought it would be a neat direction.
A mixture of preconceptions and hubris. They had been used to dealing with disorganized and arrogant Hollows, the Quincies charged out of the gate with tactics used by the by the allies in Desert Storm. Samurai tactics vs modern overwhelming ones with added power stealing is a disaster waiting to happen.
tbf the Quincies were greatly arrogant too lol but for sure, actually prepared & organized
As I rewatched from episode 1, I guess it hinted there how a kido won't work on quincies.
Remember when Rukia used a kido on Ichigo to bind him? I don't think its just because of his spiritual power itself, but also him being a quincy as well.
I guess you're right that the younger captains use their bankai earlier fights but I think Kubo chose these 4 because we already know their bankai. I mean imagine seeing Kyoraku or Ukitake's bankai for the first time just to have it stolen before we even know what it does. That would be a bummer. So they were kinda the only option with Mayuri being in the lab. But I'm not complaining, it's always nice to see Senbonzakura Kageyoshi even if used by the enemy.
I always thought of kido as a way to add and augment to your skill set for most shinigami, rather than a focus for all but very few.
I always loved seeing kido used in Bleach it's pretty much Onmyoudo.
I wonder why kyoraku didn't have Orihime or Kiske heal his eye before the final fights after the 1st wave.
Also seems like a lost opportunity that Kiske didn't fight in the final fight and use his bankai to boost Ichigo's physical abilities to the absolute maximum he could.
Quincies absorb reishi, so throwing around Kido spells would probably be useless against them. That and their strengthened Blut would probably render it ineffective.
The hollow powers, kido and great characters. There is alot i wish was added.
This is compounded by the fact where you have a captain class character like Youroichi who is like fuck a zanpaktou get these hands lol. Which in turn makes Soi Fon who hates her bankai already twice as bad since she has such an affixation and admiration for her you would think she would try to be like her idol.
One of my favorite fights that involve Kido was actually filler with Byakuaya vs Kouga Kuchiki at the end of the rebellion arc. Their chorography between swordplay and hurling kido and countering each other's kido was beautiful.
Ep 7's info card, the one that was explaining blut, there was a good piece of info there. But y'know... viz.. It turns out, that depending on the individual, The increase in defensive capabilities by blut is comparable to bankai, 5 to 10 times. So even if Hado would cause damage, the shinigami actually need to use bankai to have enough AP. It's even clearer in the anime, when byakuya used his shikai but blut negged it
Still tho, it should've been explicitly explained in the anime or at least the characters attempting to use it but finding out it was futile instead of forgetting the existence of the kido spells
@@j19l8r4 Kubo just forgot to explain I guess
I figured it be like using a fire type move on a Pokémon with Flash Fire. Just powering them up to screw you over
@mrtommo2304 why are the tybw anime fights so fast paced compared to OG bleach anime fights?
I think basically everything comes down to the lack of intel.
When the shinigami fought the Arrancar in Hueco Mundo or the Karakura Town, they knew the enemy's power structure (Espada, Fraccion...), about Arrancar's main powers (Hierro, Resurrection, Sonido...) because there were multiple clashes between the shinigami and the Arrancar. Plus the shinigami spend their careers fighting hollows.
However the shinigami had no such advantage agains the Sternritter. The Quincy are something from the past that is only skimmed over in the academy so the shinigami had no idea about their abilities. They also came out of nowhere and all this is compounded by the Medailon which stole the bankai which drove the - especially the younger - captains and officers into panic.
Another factor is that the younger shinigami like Toshiro, Byakuya or Komamura use bankai in basically every fight.
If Isane gets any extra scenes or content, I’d love to see her do another cool kido attack or technique. We haven’t seen her use kido since the soul society arc, despite her being a kido master.
hmm I would say she's got kaido mastery, which is Kido woven for healing purposes only obvs, but not a kido master in general. but sure her trying some hados or bakudous I'm down for lol. now Momo was confirmed kido master by Toushirou & Hisagi + Renji have said as much too in 13 blades + cfyow dialog
@@Crunchysopa52 She can do other kido aside from healing. She tracked Aizen with her kido and also used the mass communication technique(I forget what it’s called) to tell everyone about Aizen’s betrayal.
There’s also a few examples of her using attack-type kido in the filler arcs(not canon but still).
I’m pretty sure Isane was also confirmed to be a kido master, although it was probably in a data book if I remember correctly.
@@CaptainKotetsu nah she was never called a kido master I've read all the databooks & novels, they're not something I ignore.
yes she used bakudou 58 & 73 before which you're referring to but that alone doesn't make you a kido master all of a sudden lol. even Rangiku uses the latter/Tentei Kura in 1st invasion which is the megaphone-like communication kido
& Tousen used tentei Kura before in arrancar Arc too. & sure while it's cool she did use some in filler that's pretty irrelevant here especially considering how Kubo wasn't even involved with the og anime
@@Crunchysopa52 Fair. I stand corrected. But She’s still one of the most kido proficient lieutenants.
@@CaptainKotetsu ya, even I could give her that. & her kaido ability/skills alone are objective proof of having kido proficiency even if it's not for combat
This is definitely my biggest criticism to Bleach as a whole. Kido is a very effective combat form as shown earlier in the series, yet it gets used less and less as the series progressed. My favorite fights in the series are where they incorporated Kido into the battle to either defeat the opponent or get some sort of edge.
Indeed. Each time the quincies are shown to break down and absorb energy they are shown to be only standing still or walking. It never seemed like an ability that could be used while actively engaged.
Fights as a whole get less and less creative as the series goes on. All these unique special powers but everything just ends up being slugfests but with sword slashes
Because bleach power system works like that. Kido literally can't hurt serious enemies unless it is created specifically against them, like Ise's barrier or special kido that Urahara made against Aizen
(Before i watch the video) I’m guessing Kubo wanted everything to happen so fast and prove that these new enemies were serious business, he skipped the Kido in favor of using the bankai being shown as useless/ ineffective since Bankai is supposed to be vastly superior. And personally even though it’s not stated, I’d say the off screen fights contain kido attacks and Blut Vene caused it ineffective
Yeah i just think it would bounce off those points.
Poor writing. Plain and simple. Only this channel, the best of Kibo’s apologist, could conjure up any explanation.
@@MugenTJ Bro stop mr tommo is a goat, plus he’s the only bleach channel i follow since tekking isn’t fully one now.
@@joshshrum2764 I enjoy this channel very much as well. But sometimes the bad writing is too obvious to defend. Why not just call it out as such. If I recall correctly, Kido was always conveniently used when Kubo doesn’t want the character to use swords. Some strong opponents were out right taken down by Kido. This is a case Kubo neglected part of his world building in favor of lazily advancing the plot or simply forgot about such ability. Either way it’s not a good look. In my opinion , Kido was very arbitrary in the world of bleach . I could never figure out the limits or extent one can use it. It should never been introduced in the first place. If it must be there at least keep it consistent and simple. Then Kubo can write it into the story better.
I also found it weird how reishi absorption and the puppet technique were only used in the first battle where Ichigo fought that Quincy in Hueco Mundo. They were never used again and never presented an obstacle. Nor did they really explain how to overcome blut vene, which is something they seemed to be gearing up to (Instead I guess the main characters just became stronger). Basically each enemy just had their own special ability, and didn't seem to rely on any actual quincy techniques (some didn't even really use bows).
NGL by the time I got to this arc I'd forgotten about kido
I think maybe it's also partially the fact the quincy are better at ranged combat anyway. So switching from melee to ranged combat would put the shinigami at an even bigger disadvantage. Of course, some strategic use of different spells could've still worked well, but unfortunately that's usually saved for characters like Urahara and Hachi
I always thought since kido is reishi, using it against the race known to control reishi would be kinda stupid
I feel like near the end of Yamamoto’s life, he could’ve used the last of his strength to cast Hado 90 on Ywach. It wouldn’t kill him, but unless he has regenerative powers it would definitely deal a lot of damage, and who knows might’ve given Ichigo a big advantage
Maybe he was oom(out of mana) he did just use a 4 phase bankai to wreck llyod( or was it royd?) 's day after running over from another intense fight
If he did that he would've destroyed half of the Seireitei.
In Fake Karakura it didn't matter if he blew the whole place up.
@@lordgod9958 true but that spell is a sacrificial spell. If he going to go out, might as well do it with a bang
@@gabrielcastejon7914 most of the Seireiti was already destroyed during the invasion. what’s the harm of causing a little bit more
@@anirule6833 difference between 'destroyed' and 'atomized' :p
Whilst i get that they are young and somewhat inexperienced over most other captains....i still found it strange that Byakuya of all people wouldn't at least try 1 kido spell and that Soi-fon who normally hates her bankai would use it as her first plan of action when shikai doesn't work.... she's also skilled in kido and, shunpo and let's not forget her main weapon, Shunko.......she didn't even try any of these and she went with the bankai which she hates using unless it's a last resort....i mean...if he used the bankai to get them to steal it knowing they could only fire it a couple times and she'd deffo dodge then resorted to shunko and her other techniques, it'll even make more sense and i really would have rated her more....but......alas.....kubo doesn't seem to care much for Soi-Fon🤣🤣
I think another big thing to consider, especially in the context of bleach, is line mileage. Adding Kido, even if its not that much of a flashy ability, is more lines on the page that need to be drawn. All those lines take time to draw and while this is something that usually comes up more in animation rather than in manga, bleach has extremely detailed and interestingly designed characters with a lot of unique aspects to their design to set them apart. Adding Kido, in conjunction to the already very flashy and line heavy parts of the 1000 blood war arc, would add a LOT more lines that need to be drawn. Kubo has always been one to lean into the heavy designs, I think the fact that he draws fashion on his spare time, and the inclusion of so many transformations, and the inclusion of bankai AT ALL, in the series, shows that he really takes pride in the amount of effort he puts into them, but the way he draws kido has an extra effort included, especially in the colored versions (which i realize were likely not done by him personally) and the amount of extra effect a lot of them add, with the exception of say the Kin part of Bakudo 99 Bankin, a lot of extra shit to draw, extra props or chains or boxes or lines that come out of the character and trying to work a scene around them is likely extremely hard to do. I mean just think about how annoying it must have been to simply draw Hado 99 Goryutenmetsu one time. Hado 91 Senju Koten Taiho too, or Hado 88 Hiryu Gekizoku Shinten Raiho. Every edge is jagged, that means those must have taken ages to get right. I think you're right, the quincy absorbing reishi is an established trait they have and its the sensible answer, but i think him being sick of trying to draw them under any other circumstance, when he already has to deal with all the sternwritter's powers having similar looking effects, its understandable he wouldnt want to.
Byakuya being absolutely clueless against his own bankai is insulting considering a mere human named Tsukishima demonstrated to him how to counter his bankai a few months prior.
I think Kubo had rendered Kido so utterly useless, so often, and assigned power levels to Kido via numbers, it would have been underwhelming and/or created plot holes for his story. He would have had to create more unknown/forbidden Kido to the point that it wouldn't feel special or 'forbidden' The Sternritter were obviously stronger than the Espada, and Kido was majorly ineffective of them most of the time, or at the most stalled for time. If Kubo had demonstrated anything other than Bankai being very effective in end-game fights after the first arc, he probably would have had characters use it.
I have to say that it muat have been a plan to use Bankai early considering Soi Fon doesn't like to use hers so much so almost no one had seen it before, and even Byakuya because he has a Vice Captain with one so he is in a unique position. Toshiro and Komamura always use theirs soI guess it works and there are other captains with more powerful ones.
Byakuya probably didn't use Kido because he could tell that As was strong enough that just shikai wouldn't be a winning fight for him, so he used Bankai thinking it was a seal Renji could break. Then once his bankai was stolen, he had lost his cool, and once he got tagged by one of As Nodt's fear spikes, he had already lost and couldn't think straight anymore. And the other ones we don't see their fights.
😅I feel like it was just forgotten about till Aizen came up
I think it was a combo of Bankai is 5 to 10 times stronger than what they do normally(that massive increase is a downside and why it takes so long to get good with bankai) and kido is not that much stronger than their normal attacks( like we see with Azien his normal sword swing and a 33% have about the same effect(though the kido takes more than double the time and the one the kido is used on can get somewhat up on their own power) on two weaker captains), As well as a combo of the sheer shock of losing a bit of their soul something that has been with them for multiple decades(like for any per owner having just lost your pet is a big thing and it takes weeks if not longer before you are fully right not the few minutes they have)
add in the whole thing brought up in the zaraki fight way back and working with your zanpakuto is better than working on your own(or to be exact working with yourself is better than working against yourself) and so for most people the most effective thing is to use your Shikai and bankai they will be your most effective things
though a big reason why Renji would Panic is he saw that Byakuya sword swing that is almost 100% stronger than anything but his bankai did absolutely nothing(this 100% was the case just a question if it still was)
not they know this but in soifon case we see how BG9 kind of crub stomps her Improved Shunko and her bankai does more which does fit the whole ace in the hole ideal of what a bankai is
It is a good point, Hitsugaya, Komamora and Renji in particular use bankai almost immediately in all of there fights. They heavily rely upon it. But still, someone like Byakuya and Soyfon not even attempting it before bankai was frustrating to me for sure. Those two used that before bankai in all of there other fights until this one.
I always interpreted it as them all basically thinking along similar lines, and basically coming up with the same plan on the fly.
As for Kido, I just figured that they tried it in the earlier conflicts with the Quincy, and it either didn't work well, or backfired.
That's puee Heacanon,
you cant expect us all to think of tat
I never even thought 'The first War is Excuse for all the Plot Holes'
Also, may i remind you that Ichibei literally uses Kido of EACH Type
againt Yuha, the Quincy-GOD
@@slevinchannel7589 Yes? & I don't? This was me spit-balling, why would I make similar decisions?
Squad Zero plays by their own rules. See Ichibei casually counter-bullshitting an attack by Yhwach's Blut.
We see Yhwach dissipate one of Ichigo's Getsuga Tenshou in their first fight, and it leaves his arm scathed/burned. It may be that Ichibei just flat out overpowers even Yhwach's ability to manipulate Reishi in the middle of a fight. The spell takes effect before he can grasp & redirect it's constituent particles.
This might also tie into Spirit Ribbons being an advanced Shinigami Techinque, but a basic Quincy Technique. A Shinigami is capable of retaining control of Kidou in the face of a hostile Quincy, but they need proportionally more skill than the Quincy to do so.
Yhwach isn't a God, he just has a God Complex. Also, the Shinigami aren't Quincy, so he's not their God anyway.
And you can only sort of argue that he's a God once he absorbs what he can of the Soul King. I'm pretty sure there's a moment afterwards that he thinks to himself that if he makes a single mistake, Ichigo *will* kill him. Everyone else, he can play with.
its probably due to the Quincies absorbing reishi in the atmosphere, so theoretically, they can absorb Kido spells since they are entirely made out of reishi for them to absorb.
i never thought about this holy fuck
My thought was always that the Captains could get a read on just how powerful the Sternritter were, and therefore knew that even with their entire arsenal, they would NEED the 10x multiplier (basically what in-universe they see as the power buff) from using their Bankai to keep up.
Additionally, considering EVERYTHING is made of Reishi in the Soul Society, and Quinces have control over it, they probably knew that ending the fight as fast as possible was the best way to win, making the Bankai multiplier even more essential.
And thus without it, it not only through them for a loop and upedned the assumed main strategy, but also caused severe pyschological damage as part of their own soul was absorbed, stolen and dominated by the Quincy medallions when their Bankai was stolen.
I think it’s partially due to time constraints on Kubo, partially to show how overwhelmed the Captains were during the first fights, and partially due to the Captains featured. Of the four, only Byakuya has been shown to use kido regularly. Byakuya, at least, can be excused with already being affected by The Fear.
If they had shown Hisagi’s first battle, maybe have him using kido in a losing effort before being saved by Yamamoto, that might have made sense.
OMG.......This been on my mind for a very long time. I would say lazy writing because byakuya used kido just about every fight he had.
With Renji specifically, he dose use Bankai a lot, I think almost every fight after Byakuya he uses it, but he already had a scenario against the Espada when he could not use his Bankai and he improvised a strategy that almost killed his opponent, so I do feel disappointed he did not have more faith in himself then.
I think I vaguely remember Yumichika trying to use Kido against Giselle (?) and a zombified Hitsugaya, and Ikkaku stopping him midway, with him saying Kido won't work but gets cut midway by Zombie Hitsugaya
Can we get a power level tier list for all captain level characters? So obviously no one like Hinamori
I don't think the captains communicated with each other. I think they just happened to reach the same conclusion at the same time. Mostly it's unfortunate that none of the four were visords, because we never do find out if they could absorb their bankai or not.
Feel like we needed a dedicated kido captain. Sure we had tessai and hachi, but they were side characters to the side characters of shinji and urahara. Would be nice to see the full array of kido spells and how spells are even made to begin with.
That would have been great, I wanted ichigo to learn a few kido spells at least, and also I feel like we missed out on a captain that mastered kido constantly beefing with kenpachi who thinks the idea of flashy fancy spells and powers is a waste of time
Aizen. You're talking about Aizen, the guy who literally does nothing other than kido and kyouka suigetsu for the entire series.
@@dontmisunderstand6041 No no, the guy does one spell 2 times, sits in a chair for most the series, and does kyoka suigetsu
@@EmeraldDragoon Yes. Kido and kyouka. Being fair, he does more than just black coffin, he also uses danku. Doesn't change the fact that, lore wise, the thing he actually excels at is kido. He was the captain that's good at kido, that's his thing. We can even see this a bit with his Lieutenant Momo, who is also quite skilled with kido.
@@dontmisunderstand6041 Aizens thing is that he is exceptionally great at everything. That was the whole reason he went down the path he did according to Ichigo, the guy was just leagues above at everything. And yet we dont think of him when it comes to speed, swordsmanship or martial arts. So clearly theres some kind of line, and when the side characters sidekick, hachi, does kido more than you, you just aint the kido guy, regardless of how strong the worldbuilding says you are.
I think it comes down the aizen Said "battles are just a battle of raushi" (when soon shikai doesn't kill) maybe they so were to strong for it to be effective.
Excuse the auto correct and spelling lol
Do you think it would have been better if he showed all the soul reapers looking tired like they were fighting these enemies for a while and then had to use bankai in the fight. As if we joined them when they have been fighting for a while.
As for the Kido, I believe the main reason is due to Quincy's domination over Reishi, though not explicitly stated towards us in this arc. For the lack of an attempt to use any other means of fighting. I think we can attribute that to a lack of real fighting experience. As said the Soul Society has become complacent due to all the peace and the only ones with real battle experience would be Yamamoto, Unohana, and Zaraki, as he was in the slums fighting for his life for a while. Shunsui and Ukitake are very old and experienced and students of Yamamoto who had the experience so I believe their approach is understandable. Byakuya, Komamura, Soi Fon, and Toshiro especially, were all inducted into their captain roles after Turn Back the Pendulum, the last time the Soul Society had any sort of crisis. You could count the Arrancar Arc, but honestly, the captains were never really in danger against their opponents with the exception of Soi Fon vs Barragan, but the stakes of that "war" were far lower than this one, meaning it didn't provide proper experience even if the characters did use other means during that arc to fight. Thus, causing the reaction they did have once their bankai, their trump card if you will, was stolen. They didn't have the proper mindset to calmly approach the fight by different means, causing them to bumble like idiots.
Yeah, Kido would've at least helped a bit in the initial invasion. And speed techniques would be quite useful to avoid fatal attacks from the Sternritter.
Edit: I forgor that bakudo is probably just fuel for the quincies if they got the chance, but other Kido attacks I think could work
Kido would have done nothing against blut vene if shikai did nothing , especially that komamura who has high physical strength did nothing against bambieta.
@@naboume466 Mhm
So to review, it went like this?
Yamamoto: Double team the enemy. But only if you want to. Also don't feel like you need to spread that around.
Also Yamamoto: dies to a super effective double team...
I feel like the only ones that would work are the self body enhancement ones. I don't remember their names but I Remember them mentioned
Oh yeah! That is true, no kido no hado even the Vizards didn’t use their masks. Could have given them the spotlight instead of hollowfying Hitsugaya
Imagine Aizen just shredding the whole 1rst invasion right at the gates with full on Black Coffin and then being like "Alright, I'm done lads, remove a couple more seals at lest, you assholes!".
The only exception to this theory is Aizen because the insane amount of reiatsu he has and mastery over kido that just lets him get away with using it because he no longer has a physical zanpakuto anymore and can use Kyoka Suigetsu get someone under it’s power just by looking at him. Sure hado 99 didn’t work against Yhwach but that could have at least worked against the sternritter. I don’t see them getting around hado 90 from this version of Aizen compared to when he fought Ichigo.
My question was, why didn’t the captains/members with hollowfication pose more of a threat? Seeing as hollows are basically poison to Quincies. I feel it was a missed plot point that was vital but essentially overlooked.
The kido corps Professors were banished from Soul Society with Urahara. It is understandable that emphasis on Kido training dwindled after this.
Quilge Opie was able to absorb Inoue's santen shield easily. The santen shield is similar to the Kido spell of Danku. By relation this means that normal kido spells should be useless and captain level shinigami should know this.
This is also not the first or second time that yhe shinigami and quincy are at war so this must have been documented. Making it clear that normal kido spells are useless against Quincy.