If you ever come into a real survival situation, just sit down and start sharpening your knife. In less than 15 minutes someone will appear and tell you how to do it right in his opinion.
One other option for stropping a scandi grind without creating a convex edge is to use a hardwood strop. As a furniture-maker, this is what I do for my chisels between sharpening them with stones. All you have to do is cut a piece of hardwood so you have a very flat portion of end grain exposed and rub stropping compound into the open pores. You then have a flat, hard, durable surface charged with the fine stropping abrasive that will not convex your edge the way a leather strop will. It works incredibly well and saves me leaving the bench to sharpen on my stones. It also save wear on my nice stones and costs virtually nothing.
@Donny p. I was also a professional hand tool woodworker, reliant on ultra sharp planes and chiselsand I echo your advice. However, I would bet a fair amount of money that @Least 90% ofthe knife fetishists reading this thread Would not be able to plane a flat surface on the end grain of a piece of hardwood. That is why I recommend MDF -. It’s flat and it’s cheap.
@@MrNetnic I’m one of the dirty fetishists you speak of. Firstly, I hope you’re having a wonderful day being a worthy blade owner unlike us fetishists who get hard for sharpening blades we never use. Secondly, can you think of any way to obtain a small piece of mdf without having to purchase an entire board? I’m not a tool guy and always feel lost in the Home Depot unless I’m staring at a shiny knife edge attached to a tool I have no understanding of. Anyway, is there anything small that’s made of mdf i could purchase that I could strop my skandi grinds on. Because if I can’t achieve a hair shaving edge then I can’t get hard. And if I can’t get hard my wife gets angry. My marriage is on the line here. So, I’m begging you to once again impart your knowledge upon me and tell me how to acquire a small piece of mdf.
@@bradlarrison191 construction site scrap bins, also the hardware store will generally cut that plank down for you, if you ask nicely ofc. but is having some excess wood ever really a bad thing? your wife apparently thinks not haha
Scandi is delicate. I have no problem with the slightly convexed edge. Stays sharp longer. And I take the stone to the blade. It's so much more controllable to me.
Your tutelage is incredible. You explained it, clearly, and in a way that helped others, saved them money, and did you no financial food aside from bolstering your credibility. You did quite well. I've now subscribed.
Mors Kochanski used a strop, Ray Mears applies a micro bevel, and furthermore, traditional Scandinavian knives were very high convex grinds. A zero grind is actually very delicate on the cutting edge, and can chip out easily.
Yup, also; Cody Lundin uses sandpaper, no stones (for more than 30 years now). On cardboard or something like that. A little convex is not bad but good. And what Kyle gets from customers, seems to be cases of completely focusing on the apex when stropping. Then you get the overly rounding effect. When keeping the whole bevel on the leather or sandpaper, it will work fine. No stones needed.
This makes a lot of sense. I just got my first scandi grind knife and the #1 reason was ease of sharpening. So I better make sure it STAYS easy to sharpen!
Aaaaand that is another reason the low end Mora's are great, you can sacrifice one or two to learning how to sharpen Scandi grinds correctly on a real Scandi grind with decent steel without ruining more expensive knives.
@Gray Au i dont think scandi sucks in general, in my opinion it is sometimes too demanding for the steel quality. For exmple, my Mora Companion came with scandi grind with a micro bevel (i dont like to call this sabre grind since the secondary bevel was only about quarter of milimeter wide). When i tried to sharpen it like a full scandi, i ended with an edge that was to thin and got bent during casual cutting task. Instead of reprofiling the whole blade or returning to the secondary bevel i went for the scandivex grind and cant comply about the edge retention now.
@@s7r49 Yeah..I've wasted countless hours trying to sharpen a "scandi" Mora, until I took a new one, put it under a microscope, and observed a distinct secondary / micro bevel. What is the point of them being sold as Scandi grinds, when they aren't scandi grinds? Literally the whole point is to have a very easy to sharpen profile that anyone can do, even out in the field.
@Ryan Boswood In my experience its all about practice. Practice and reasonable quality stones, which should be in ideal case pretty flat (no need to go crazy, but it helps for me). As far as I know, the scandi grinds are tricky in the way that while they allow you to set the sharpening angle on pretty easily, you need to take off quite a lot of material in comparison to a secondary bevel grind. This means that any minor mistake that you make gets amplified quite a lot. For example, if you tend to rock or tilt the blade on the end or beginning of each stroke, after a greater number of repetitions it might eventually round your bevel, making it slightly convex. After that, finding the correct angle to sharpen on again can be a bit difficult. If I were you, I wouldnt be really afraid of ruining cheap knives - I am not sure what you ment by "totally destroying", but unless you remove so much material that the knife isnt able to hold up, you most likely haven't done anything what somebody with some sharpening experience couldnt fix. The only reason why I would not recommed starting with expensive knives is the fact that you could damage them cosmetically, and while this is fine with cheap things, you most likely want your more valuable ones to be nice and shiny/satine/stonewash/whatever finish you like :P
Some might argue that a scadi-vex is better than a true scandi, and it was used originally, the flat scandi grind is a relatively new thing, that only came about with modern machinery in the factories of the last century or so.
They hold an edge somewhat longer. You don't need necessarily need a strop for any reason with any bevel. A strop is for honing, and polishing out the microserration as well as the steel itself, your edge will potentially last longer (if you didn't try to sharpen with a strop and make your edge atomically thin) and be prettier, not necessarily perform better. Convex is the best bevel for holding an edge, which means it is the best bevel period (but especially for bushcraft/survival)
@@SoftBreadSoftware The reason our knifes have flat bevels is to give good support while carving wood, Like the sole of a plane. Its also resonable good at general work but does not really good at standing up to abuse, traditionally axes/hatchets or perhaps sami chopping knives or sometimes a second "beater knife" were used for that, either with sligthly steeper angle "scandi" edges for carving use or convex grind for chopping use. Convex grind is better at cutting throug stuff, and as most mora knives are used on the workplace or home to cut, pry and poke around the manufacturers ship them with slightly to shallow angle grinds with the micro bevel to make them better cutters and to hold up to abuse better.
@@borjesvensson8661 Sharpened my mora to a true scandi, only to find out that it made the knife worthless by doing so. That steel with that true zero edge simply didn't hold up to *any* actual use. Light wood carving mangled the delicate edge. Wound up having to put the secondary bevel back on. Works fine now.
I just purchased a scandi grind folder, this was superbly illustrated. And therefore super appreciated to extend the life of my knife through your knowledge. Greetings from New Zealand 🙏
The Mora Companion used to come with the sabre grind, not sure if it still does, but the last one I bought had the secondary micro bevel. I got rid of the micro bevel as soon as I got it home. I have found that the skandi is my favorite blade grind for its versatility and its simplicity.
"Pure" Scandi grinds IMHO have one purpose WHITTLING. But even then as someone who whittles about an hour a day I find a scandiVex or full flatVex blend to be superior . Knife use through hundreds of hours will teach you much about grinds and which ones work best. Ruining a scandi is when a person puts it through a worksharp but basic microvexing an edge is natural. If done right it will save you steel and money.
Did it ever occur to you that a lot of people actually prefer a microbevel (a shallow convex ideally) for a general use knife (myself included)? For a woodworking only knife, a 0 degree scandi is perfect for sure, but it won't hold up well cutting much else. Try hitting a bone directly with a 0 degree bevel and see what happens. Also, there is no such thing as a true scandinavian grind (I see this misconception a lot). Most were either slightly convex or concave, historically. Being scandinavian I've used this type of knife all my life, and I've come to prefer the microbevel for the extra stability. EDIT: Basically I'm saying this is all about personal preference. There is no absolute right way of sharpening, or stropping, a knife.
Did it occur to you, maybe didn't make this video for you, no need for all the blah blah blah Then you go on to say, "for a woodworking knife, blah blah blah, well maybe he was talking to the woodworkers, hope you ego is ok by now. Oh and try using a saw on that there bone, why would you "try hitting a bone directly with a 0 degree bevel" anyway, unless you dislike safety and the knife.
@@joelbenoitthewanderingbiso4976 I think his comments was great.....what's a youtube video without opposing opinions......you dont make a youtube video and dont expect people to comment
I totally agree with Corpserated. I sharpen my Mora's on a sandpaper+sanding block backing. Then finish off with the strop. The sandpaper is on the softer backing of the sanding block. I DO want the scandivex grind. That's a good thing.
I really needed this video. I'm having this problem and couldn't work out what was happening. After watching your video I think that this is the case. Thanks
Thanks Kyle, this is exactly what I've been saying about all knives that do not have a secondary bevel at the cutting edge. To say that a Scandi grind is so easy to sharpen in the field is just NOT true. Yes you can put a sort of edge on it for a while, but, as you've said you're actually ruining your grind. What happens in most cases is that the less arduous solution is to sharpen at a steeper angle, thus changing the profile, till eventually it's mostly only useful as a doorstop it's so steep. The cynic in me says that the reason it is so widely recommended by experts is because it has to go back so often to an expert for proper sharpening. But I guess we all have to make a living. Most people who say it's easy to sharpen are people who have some considerable expertise with knives. For beginners it's a nightmare. One thing I do concede is that the Scandi grind is good for woodworking tools, as the angle is similar to that of a chisel, only double sided. For most other tasks like peeling, food prep, skinning, dressing meat etc flat and hollow grinds outperform the Scandi grind by a long way. It is most definitely NOT a solution for ALL camp tasks. For a SHTF survival situation it has serious shortcomings. Sharpening a hollow or sabre grind knife is actually quite easy, even to get a perfect edge, as there is much less probability for making a serious error, as your diagrams so clearly illustrate! Well done on that. Take away: from this it becomes clear that specific tasks around camp require specific knives, with the necessary characteristics to work effectively, and provide a pleasant experience while doing so. Yes, this means you might need more than one knife. However, if you like hacking it and expending lots of energy you can use just about anything out there and eventually the task may get done and leave you with all ten fingers and a full quota of blood inside. Thanks again.
Good video. I skipped watching this video every time it popped up because I just assumed it was about people sharpening their scandi's as if they were regular knives and adding a secondary bevel. Now I'm glad I did watch it, I've been touching up my Mora on a straight razor strop and it has given it a slight convex. From now on I'll only use the plain leather side instead of the compound side.
Good tip. I recently bought a scandi grind knife for bushcraft and am looking forward to a easier method of sharpening. I would have stropped it the way you warned not to. You saved me some frustration.
You can strop with compound directly on a flat board. The leather of the strop compresses resulting in the rounding of the apex. For a bushcraft knife you might actually want this to strengthen the edge but when I am carving (mora 106) I use compound straight onto the board and it keeps a flatter bevel.
EXACTLY !!! If I really wanted to strop, I would use compound, or the slurry off an 8000 grit stone, on a piece of MDF. As far as I am concerned, the ultimate Scandi grind is the ultimate fragile edge. You are not taking your knife into the wilderness to make a fine furniture, Or to cut pieces of paper FFS. A knife that you take camping with you is a relatively crude tool That needs a combination of reasonable sharpness and reliable edge strength.
Sanding belts and leather strops will form slight convex bevels, even working on a wet stone by hand will tend to convex as the wrist flexes. A fixed angle jig would form a flat edge. Thick blades over 1/8th" tend not to perform well with a Scandinavian grind as the edge angle is too severe. My family bloodlines came from Sami of Inari and some old blades I have seen are all convex edged (both on 'leuku' and 'puukko' sized blades). I have heard from people who have researched this topic that mechanized mass production resulted in what we believe is the flat grind profile 'Scandi' we see today. Thanks for opening up this discussion :)
I sharpen all my Mora's on sandpaper and keep them sharp by stropping. The sanding blocks with spring clips have the somewhat soft backing. Perfect for sharpening a scandi grind knife to convex it slightly.. No stones needed. And the scandivex is best. A slight convex grind. Makes the edge tougher, but still very sharp.
Thank you, that explains why my blade edges seem to be dulling on 1/8 inch tanned leather cowhide with polishing compound, but I get a great polish using compound on thin suede like leather (from an old welding glove) stapled to a piece of wood. I'm applying to much pressure when stropping and the 1/8" leather has give to it where i'm rolling into the edge and eating it away as to where the thin leather has the hard wood backing to support my blade edge as i polish it. Eye opening O_O
Funny, i stumbled across this video at 2 am and it just solved my recent knife predicament. I made a new strop out of some scrap veg. tan and i stropped my mora 511. I thought it would be shaving sharp but it couldn't even cut paper! I thought my angle was too steep and i goof'd up but this video just answered that question.
Okay. Scandi - use a flat stone. Now I know what I keep doing wrong. Please tell me how do sharpen AND MAINTAIN a sabre grind. Excellent and to the point video.
It becomes a scandivex. [2] And it may performs even better, hold an edge better, less chips. I like it. Although, I try not to raise the angle not to convex to much. Last time on stones, I've modifeid my Mora, reduced the angle, raised the bevel line and stroped. So it seems like a tommy pukko. Bites much deeper in wood and the convex edge reduces the chiping issue. I like it. Still make great feathers.
A very good reason why I do my stropping on a pine board (no leather) with compound directly on the wood. And when it begins to deform, it’s kindling! Obviously, it needs to be a perfectly clear board with straight grain.
For my user scandi's I actually want that small secondary convex edge. They even call it a scandivex. So I strop them before even taking them out in the field. A true scandi is way to weak for serious carving most of all some harder woods. The edge will roll on you. I tested a true factory scandi knife in Colombia and the first piece of hardwood I tried to cut the edge had a visible roll. So what you say is correct but who wants a true scandi knife for actual work in the field?
@@declanthiele No. Just a full scandi makes the edge to weak. To thin no matter the temper or steel. It all depends on the angle of the scandi of course. After some stropping these blades can withstand batoning even. So if it's just cutting fruits and vegetables (soft materials) keep that super thin edge. If you also want to do some woodwork give it a strop depending on the angle of the scandi.
Thank you very much for this video, it's very very helpful. I had a hunch of this proven theory about using strops with compound that can round off the edge because the grind is not lying completely flat on the surface of the sharpening tool. does this also apply to slightly convexed scandi grinds? Is there a video for secondary V Edge sharpening?
Scandi its really hard to maintain perfectly flat because the stone wears out and then getting it back perfectly sharp becomes almost impossible. I have a mora that gave me a lot of grief until i put it on the work sharp and convert it into convex. It worked best on 15 degrees angle and now the knife is really sharp and you can easily refine the edge on a strop.
Well apparently I put a saber grind on my mora still cuts well tho , maybe I will invest the time to make it a scandi again anyway thanks for the video
So the sabre bevel is the micro edge you were removing from your Mora video right? You were sharpening and honing a scandi bevel back onto it and then you polished the entire grind to a mirror polish....it was exciting.
With my scandi ground carving knives I'll strop them in between sharpening with compound but I use a very flat, glass backed kangaroo leather strop which reduces the convexing problem a lot. I also don't use much downward pressure, just enough to hold the knife in place. And when I notice that not working well anymore I sharpen them on metal diamond plate sharpener. Honestly scandi ground knives are a quite a bit more work when it comes to maintenance but if you need the capabilities you can't beat them.
Really enjoyed this and love the new episode format! I think this will be a great series. I'm not so focused on sharpening techniques and I know others aren't as well so this will offer a really nice service for those of us that need to learn more about how to sharpen and maintain our edges! Good job! P.S. how's the leg?👍👍👍
The first time I did a zero grind on my scandi knife, it was scary sharp. But the edge didn't last. I enjoyed using it but I took some chips and rolls. Now I can't be bothered taking even more steel and time to fix that. So I keep factory microbevel edge on the scandi.
i hear people using secondary grind/edge/bevel interchangeably with micro grind/edge/bevel, but here's how I like to make the distinction. On saber grinds, you can clearly see the "secondary" bevel, it's certainly nowhere near as long as the primary, but you can clearly see that edge. Whereas for scandi, I do sharpen (since it typically doesn't need reprofiling, on higher grit stones) them to scandi zero, but raise them ever so slightly for a micro edge on finer/finishing stone. These micro edges are visually not as prominent as the secondary edge on a saber grind. Of course another thing to point out is that the primary bevel on saber is a lot shallower than the angle of a scandi knife. Anyway, long story short, I like having micro bevels on scandi knives; I feel you get over 90% of the cutting performance (if not more) and a lot tougher edge. I also love sabers too though; one can never have too many knives (unless you ask my wife....)
I agree with you. I also microbevel my scans is because a true Scandinavian edge on my Finnish puukkos and I see the edge literally flexing while working on harder woods. I know that puukkos are meant to whittle softer woods though. But where I live we have harder woods as well. A week Scandi edge is not practical for me.
Well said bro. Even my blacksmith drives me crazy by putting on a convex edge with his belts, and when I want to put on a decent V edge (scandi) I need to sharpen around 3-4 days - each day, at least 2 x 3 hours on my stones which is absolutely a stone and time killing, useless piece of unnecessary work. I hate it.
Found this video just in time,I thought if I kept on top of things with the strop it would be better for the blade but I see now how that is not right,mine was starting to convex after only a few strops.
Fully agree that stropping (especially if done improperly) will ruin a Scandi grind. A ceramic rod or a rod system (like Lansky Turn Box or Spyderco Sharpmaker) is a relatively easy way to maintain true Scandi grinds .
Ure right....... I get a bit carried away with my Bark River stropping compound. works find for my convex grinds but perhaps not advisable for scandis. Since I use a polishing stone anyway I guess the compound strop (12K) is pointless
I've seen a lot of scandi's like this over the years. I always knew it as a scandi vex. It is a fairly common thing being that a lot of people just touch up edges in the field with something small like a dc4 and a small strop rather than taking the time to run it over the stone when they get home. On another note I always use a loaded strop on a scandi but only when it comes off the stone or ceramic. Anyways , that's my 2 cents worth. Thanks for another very informative video none the less and cheers till the next one!
thanks Chad! Yes, I should have thrown in the word scandivex, but most of these knives don't come from the factory with a vexed edge. most have a single bevel. If people don't mind the changes in edge geometry and sharpening style, it isn't a problem! I'm simply stating a recurring trend that I see! :-)
Weiderfan , mora use a micro bevel on all their knives because a true scandi is just to weak. A scandivex is not ruining your knife its improving it tenfold.
Derek Davies Exactly, I love my Garbergs micro bevel, I wasn't sure if I was gonna remove it or not but once I used it I clearly felt the difference much better.
Yes they do. They put a micro bevel on the scandi. Do your homework, i have with my own eyes received a mora from the factory and looked at the edge under magnification. What i saw was a secondary bevel. A clear secondary grind. You are full of it sorry.
![Repairing the worst MORA BUSHCRAFT I have ever seen! - [WATERSTONE SHARPENING]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cuZHrq-zQ4Y/mqdefault.jpg)
![Repairing the worst MORA BUSHCRAFT I have ever seen! - [WATERSTONE SHARPENING]](/img/tr.png)
If you ever come into a real survival situation, just sit down and start sharpening your knife.
In less than 15 minutes someone will appear and tell you how to do it right in his opinion.
This also works for cooking animals.
Underrated comment
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😂😂😂
🤣😂🤣🇧🇷
One other option for stropping a scandi grind without creating a convex edge is to use a hardwood strop. As a furniture-maker, this is what I do for my chisels between sharpening them with stones. All you have to do is cut a piece of hardwood so you have a very flat portion of end grain exposed and rub stropping compound into the open pores. You then have a flat, hard, durable surface charged with the fine stropping abrasive that will not convex your edge the way a leather strop will. It works incredibly well and saves me leaving the bench to sharpen on my stones. It also save wear on my nice stones and costs virtually nothing.
@Donny p. I was also a professional hand tool woodworker, reliant on ultra sharp planes and chiselsand I echo your advice. However, I would bet a fair amount of money that @Least 90% ofthe knife fetishists reading this thread Would not be able to plane a flat surface on the end grain of a piece of hardwood. That is why I recommend MDF -. It’s flat and it’s cheap.
@@MrNetnic I’m one of the dirty fetishists you speak of. Firstly, I hope you’re having a wonderful day being a worthy blade owner unlike us fetishists who get hard for sharpening blades we never use. Secondly, can you think of any way to obtain a small piece of mdf without having to purchase an entire board? I’m not a tool guy and always feel lost in the Home Depot unless I’m staring at a shiny knife edge attached to a tool I have no understanding of. Anyway, is there anything small that’s made of mdf i could purchase that I could strop my skandi grinds on. Because if I can’t achieve a hair shaving edge then I can’t get hard. And if I can’t get hard my wife gets angry. My marriage is on the line here. So, I’m begging you to once again impart your knowledge upon me and tell me how to acquire a small piece of mdf.
@@bradlarrison191 construction site scrap bins, also the hardware store will generally cut that plank down for you, if you ask nicely ofc. but is having some excess wood ever really a bad thing? your wife apparently thinks not haha
Using the white board makes a great video. You explain things well with the illustrations.
Thanks so much! I appreciate that :-)
Scandi is delicate. I have no problem with the slightly convexed edge. Stays sharp longer. And I take the stone to the blade. It's so much more controllable to me.
Your tutelage is incredible. You explained it, clearly, and in a way that helped others, saved them money, and did you no financial food aside from bolstering your credibility. You did quite well.
I've now subscribed.
This is the best video I have seen so far explaining these two different grinds
Mors Kochanski used a strop, Ray Mears applies a micro bevel, and furthermore, traditional Scandinavian knives were very high convex grinds. A zero grind is actually very delicate on the cutting edge, and can chip out easily.
Yup, also; Cody Lundin uses sandpaper, no stones (for more than 30 years now).
On cardboard or something like that.
A little convex is not bad but good.
And what Kyle gets from customers, seems to be cases of completely focusing on the apex when stropping.
Then you get the overly rounding effect.
When keeping the whole bevel on the leather or sandpaper, it will work fine.
No stones needed.
This makes a lot of sense. I just got my first scandi grind knife and the #1 reason was ease of sharpening. So I better make sure it STAYS easy to sharpen!
Thank you very much for the info! The over-convexing has always been an issue with my scandi grind knives.
Aaaaand that is another reason the low end Mora's are great, you can sacrifice one or two to learning how to sharpen Scandi grinds correctly on a real Scandi grind with decent steel without ruining more expensive knives.
absolutely!
@Gray Au i dont think scandi sucks in general, in my opinion it is sometimes too demanding for the steel quality. For exmple, my Mora Companion came with scandi grind with a micro bevel (i dont like to call this sabre grind since the secondary bevel was only about quarter of milimeter wide). When i tried to sharpen it like a full scandi, i ended with an edge that was to thin and got bent during casual cutting task. Instead of reprofiling the whole blade or returning to the secondary bevel i went for the scandivex grind and cant comply about the edge retention now.
@@s7r49 Yeah..I've wasted countless hours trying to sharpen a "scandi" Mora, until I took a new one, put it under a microscope, and observed a distinct secondary / micro bevel. What is the point of them being sold as Scandi grinds, when they aren't scandi grinds? Literally the whole point is to have a very easy to sharpen profile that anyone can do, even out in the field.
Amen to that
@Ryan Boswood In my experience its all about practice. Practice and reasonable quality stones, which should be in ideal case pretty flat (no need to go crazy, but it helps for me).
As far as I know, the scandi grinds are tricky in the way that while they allow you to set the sharpening angle on pretty easily, you need to take off quite a lot of material in comparison to a secondary bevel grind. This means that any minor mistake that you make gets amplified quite a lot. For example, if you tend to rock or tilt the blade on the end or beginning of each stroke, after a greater number of repetitions it might eventually round your bevel, making it slightly convex. After that, finding the correct angle to sharpen on again can be a bit difficult.
If I were you, I wouldnt be really afraid of ruining cheap knives - I am not sure what you ment by "totally destroying", but unless you remove so much material that the knife isnt able to hold up, you most likely haven't done anything what somebody with some sharpening experience couldnt fix. The only reason why I would not recommed starting with expensive knives is the fact that you could damage them cosmetically, and while this is fine with cheap things, you most likely want your more valuable ones to be nice and shiny/satine/stonewash/whatever finish you like :P
Very good explanation as to why scandis can get ruined. Thanks for sharing!
Great simplified lesson for an amateur as myself. Thank you and Merry Christmas. 🎄
Some might argue that a scadi-vex is better than a true scandi, and it was used originally, the flat scandi grind is a relatively new thing, that only came about with modern machinery in the factories of the last century or so.
I've heard that Scandivex is the absolute best edge you can have on a bushcraft knife so thats why they strop with compounds.
They hold an edge somewhat longer. You don't need necessarily need a strop for any reason with any bevel. A strop is for honing, and polishing out the microserration as well as the steel itself, your edge will potentially last longer (if you didn't try to sharpen with a strop and make your edge atomically thin) and be prettier, not necessarily perform better.
Convex is the best bevel for holding an edge, which means it is the best bevel period (but especially for bushcraft/survival)
@@SoftBreadSoftware The reason our knifes have flat bevels is to give good support while carving wood, Like the sole of a plane. Its also resonable good at general work but does not really good at standing up to abuse, traditionally axes/hatchets or perhaps sami chopping knives or sometimes a second "beater knife" were used for that, either with sligthly steeper angle "scandi" edges for carving use or convex grind for chopping use. Convex grind is better at cutting throug stuff, and as most mora knives are used on the workplace or home to cut, pry and poke around the manufacturers ship them with slightly to shallow angle grinds with the micro bevel to make them better cutters and to hold up to abuse better.
@@borjesvensson8661 Sharpened my mora to a true scandi, only to find out that it made the knife worthless by doing so. That steel with that true zero edge simply didn't hold up to *any* actual use. Light wood carving mangled the delicate edge.
Wound up having to put the secondary bevel back on. Works fine now.
good info on how to prevent damage on scandi grinds, but you also helped me with some insight on how to get a good convex grind as well! thank you!
Excellent video. I used to have this problem off and on till I figured out what you've explained very nicely with the diagrams.
I just purchased a scandi grind folder, this was superbly illustrated. And therefore super appreciated to extend the life of my knife through your knowledge. Greetings from New Zealand 🙏
Thanks for the tip, I have been stropping my blades, but I'm going to try your advice out and see what difference it makes.
The Mora Companion used to come with the sabre grind, not sure if it still does, but the last one I bought had the secondary micro bevel. I got rid of the micro bevel as soon as I got it home. I have found that the skandi is my favorite blade grind for its versatility and its simplicity.
Short & concise. Excellent!
Thanks. Nice to know that strops are better WITHOUT compounds. Really makes things easier...
"Pure" Scandi grinds IMHO have one
purpose WHITTLING.
But even then as someone who whittles about an hour a day I find a scandiVex or full flatVex blend to be superior .
Knife use through hundreds of hours will teach you much about grinds and which ones work best.
Ruining a scandi is when a person puts it through a worksharp but basic microvexing an edge is natural. If done right it will save you steel and money.
Excellent illustration! I said out loud to myself: good guy... He definitely knows what he's talking about!!!
Did it ever occur to you that a lot of people actually prefer a microbevel (a shallow convex ideally) for a general use knife (myself included)?
For a woodworking only knife, a 0 degree scandi is perfect for sure, but it won't hold up well cutting much else. Try hitting a bone directly with a 0 degree bevel and see what happens.
Also, there is no such thing as a true scandinavian grind (I see this misconception a lot). Most were either slightly convex or concave, historically. Being scandinavian I've used this type of knife all my life, and I've come to prefer the microbevel for the extra stability.
EDIT: Basically I'm saying this is all about personal preference. There is no absolute right way of sharpening, or stropping, a knife.
exactly if you touch anything hard like bone with the edge of a zero flat grind scandi it will roll or chip. Micro convex edge will resist this
Did it occur to you, maybe didn't make this video for you, no need for all the blah blah blah
Then you go on to say, "for a woodworking knife, blah blah blah, well maybe he was talking to the woodworkers, hope you ego is ok by now.
Oh and try using a saw on that there bone,
why would you "try hitting a bone directly with a 0 degree bevel" anyway, unless you dislike safety and the knife.
@@joelbenoitthewanderingbiso4976 I think his comments was great.....what's a youtube video without opposing opinions......you dont make a youtube video and dont expect people to comment
I totally agree with Corpserated.
I sharpen my Mora's on a sandpaper+sanding block backing. Then finish off with the strop.
The sandpaper is on the softer backing of the sanding block.
I DO want the scandivex grind. That's a good thing.
I really needed this video. I'm having this problem and couldn't work out what was happening. After watching your video I think that this is the case.
Thanks
Awesome review! Extremely helpful!
Never owned a Scandi knife and had no idea about this. thanks for the info bro!
my pleasure Kev!
Thanks Kyle, this is exactly what I've been saying about all knives that do not have a secondary bevel at the cutting edge. To say that a Scandi grind is so easy to sharpen in the field is just NOT true. Yes you can put a sort of edge on it for a while, but, as you've said you're actually ruining your grind. What happens in most cases is that the less arduous solution is to sharpen at a steeper angle, thus changing the profile, till eventually it's mostly only useful as a doorstop it's so steep. The cynic in me says that the reason it is so widely recommended by experts is because it has to go back so often to an expert for proper sharpening. But I guess we all have to make a living. Most people who say it's easy to sharpen are people who have some considerable expertise with knives. For beginners it's a nightmare. One thing I do concede is that the Scandi grind is good for woodworking tools, as the angle is similar to that of a chisel, only double sided. For most other tasks like peeling, food prep, skinning, dressing meat etc flat and hollow grinds outperform the Scandi grind by a long way. It is most definitely NOT a solution for ALL camp tasks. For a SHTF survival situation it has serious shortcomings. Sharpening a hollow or sabre grind knife is actually quite easy, even to get a perfect edge, as there is much less probability for making a serious error, as your diagrams so clearly illustrate! Well done on that. Take away: from this it becomes clear that specific tasks around camp require specific knives, with the necessary characteristics to work effectively, and provide a pleasant experience while doing so. Yes, this means you might need more than one knife. However, if you like hacking it and expending lots of energy you can use just about anything out there and eventually the task may get done and leave you with all ten fingers and a full quota of blood inside. Thanks again.
@@beowulf_of_wall_st S
A hollow grind doesn't have a "flat".
@@beowulf_of_wall_st Of course not, and I never intimated that it was.
Great video, answered a question I’d had for a long time. I’d seen that but couldn’t work out why it was happening. I’ll stick with the stone.
Good video. I skipped watching this video every time it popped up because I just assumed it was about people sharpening their scandi's as if they were regular knives and adding a secondary bevel. Now I'm glad I did watch it, I've been touching up my Mora on a straight razor strop and it has given it a slight convex. From now on I'll only use the plain leather side instead of the compound side.
Good tip. I recently bought a scandi grind knife for bushcraft and am looking forward to a easier method of sharpening. I would have stropped it the way you warned not to. You saved me some frustration.
Thanks YJ!
Thanks for that. Good on you.
Awesome for the tip getting my first scandi bushcraft knife .
Good for some of us to know and good for others to have the reminder. Thanks!
a lot of times a reminder is all that's needed!
good stuff Kyle,
You can strop with compound directly on a flat board. The leather of the strop compresses resulting in the rounding of the apex. For a bushcraft knife you might actually want this to strengthen the edge but when I am carving (mora 106) I use compound straight onto the board and it keeps a flatter bevel.
EXACTLY !!! If I really wanted to strop, I would use compound, or the slurry off an 8000 grit stone, on a piece of MDF. As far as I am concerned, the ultimate Scandi grind is the ultimate fragile edge. You are not taking your knife into the wilderness to make a fine furniture, Or to cut pieces of paper FFS. A knife that you take camping with you is a relatively crude tool That needs a combination of reasonable sharpness and reliable edge strength.
good tip, thank you
Thank you! Great video!
These are very correct tips. Thank you from the other side of the ocean!
Thanks for the great vid. I notice a lot of people not lapping their stone either
Thanks for pointing that out, and everyone thx for the good info in the comments!
most clear video ever. Ty
Sanding belts and leather strops will form slight convex bevels, even working on a wet stone by hand will tend to convex as the wrist flexes. A fixed angle jig would form a flat edge. Thick blades over 1/8th" tend not to perform well with a Scandinavian grind as the edge angle is too severe. My family bloodlines came from Sami of Inari and some old blades I have seen are all convex edged (both on 'leuku' and 'puukko' sized blades). I have heard from people who have researched this topic that mechanized mass production resulted in what we believe is the flat grind profile 'Scandi' we see today. Thanks for opening up this discussion :)
I sharpen all my Mora's on sandpaper and keep them sharp by stropping. The sanding blocks with spring clips have the somewhat soft backing. Perfect for sharpening a scandi grind knife to convex it slightly..
No stones needed. And the scandivex is best.
A slight convex grind.
Makes the edge tougher, but still very sharp.
Thank you, that explains why my blade edges seem to be dulling on 1/8 inch tanned leather cowhide with polishing compound, but I get a great polish using compound on thin suede like leather (from an old welding glove) stapled to a piece of wood. I'm applying to much pressure when stropping and the 1/8" leather has give to it where i'm rolling into the edge and eating it away as to where the thin leather has the hard wood backing to support my blade edge as i polish it. Eye opening O_O
Glad you're progressing in your techniques my friend! Thanks for watching!
Just got a Helle Skala Folder. Scandi secondary grind, but with a micro-bevel on the primary!
Great vid mate. Cheers
Funny, i stumbled across this video at 2 am and it just solved my recent knife predicament. I made a new strop out of some scrap veg. tan and i stropped my mora 511. I thought it would be shaving sharp but it couldn't even cut paper! I thought my angle was too steep and i goof'd up but this video just answered that question.
I prefer a zero convex. But my scandis are always on ceramic stones. Great vid man.
Excellent info, presented wonderfully.
Well good deal, I have been taking all of my blades to a true or mostly true scandi grind.
Seems easier to maintain the edge also.
Okay. Scandi - use a flat stone. Now I know what I keep doing wrong.
Please tell me how do sharpen AND MAINTAIN a sabre grind.
Excellent and to the point video.
Thanks for showing us and take care.
It becomes a scandivex. [2]
And it may performs even better, hold an edge better, less chips. I like it.
Although, I try not to raise the angle not to convex to much.
Last time on stones, I've modifeid my Mora, reduced the angle, raised the bevel line and stroped. So it seems like a tommy pukko. Bites much deeper in wood and the convex edge reduces the chiping issue. I like it. Still make great feathers.
Well explained! Quite clear.
Thank you so much for the info, really helps.
Thanks, Weiderfan!!
A very good reason why I do my stropping on a pine board (no leather) with compound directly on the wood. And when it begins to deform, it’s kindling! Obviously, it needs to be a perfectly clear board with straight grain.
Amazing! I was waiting someone do this video long time ago! No one know how much my scandi knives are suffering! Loll!
Thanks bro!
haha glad you enjoyed it my friend!
For my user scandi's I actually want that small secondary convex edge. They even call it a scandivex. So I strop them before even taking them out in the field.
A true scandi is way to weak for serious carving most of all some harder woods. The edge will roll on you.
I tested a true factory scandi knife in Colombia and the first piece of hardwood I tried to cut the edge had a visible roll.
So what you say is correct but who wants a true scandi knife for actual work in the field?
Sounds like the temper is too soft on those blades
@@declanthiele No. Just a full scandi makes the edge to weak. To thin no matter the temper or steel. It all depends on the angle of the scandi of course. After some stropping these blades can withstand batoning even. So if it's just cutting fruits and vegetables (soft materials) keep that super thin edge. If you also want to do some woodwork give it a strop depending on the angle of the scandi.
Excellent job Sir! A lot of good info there👍
thanks woodswalker! I appreciate it!
I just use the back of my belt. Works great. After batoning a 1075 Condor Bushlore, that's all I need to do to hone the edge.
Thank you very much for this video, it's very very helpful. I had a hunch of this proven theory about using strops with compound that can round off the edge because the grind is not lying completely flat on the surface of the sharpening tool. does this also apply to slightly convexed scandi grinds? Is there a video for secondary V Edge sharpening?
Makes sense to me! Time to be more careful on the leather.
thanks for watching!
Amazing information! Much appreciated / many thanks
Scandi its really hard to maintain perfectly flat because the stone wears out and then getting it back perfectly sharp becomes almost impossible. I have a mora that gave me a lot of grief until i put it on the work sharp and convert it into convex. It worked best on 15 degrees angle and now the knife is really sharp and you can easily refine the edge on a strop.
Another excellent video...Thx
Thanks for this video!
Excellent advice!
Great point and explanation . Thanks
thanks Rusty!
That was very informative. Thank you for the video.
A lot of knives advertised with a scandi grind come with a secondary bevel though, even from Mora.
Well apparently I put a saber grind on my mora still cuts well tho , maybe I will invest the time to make it a scandi again anyway thanks for the video
Thanks for the sharing! This was very instructive
Thanks Ortzi!
Finally... thank you!
It does help a lot! Thanx mate :)
Thanks for the advice
Man I need to see this video. I literally am the guy you've described ruining the blade. Thanks for this
Great vid bud. Now only if i could get my angles right...
So the sabre bevel is the micro edge you were removing from your Mora video right? You were sharpening and honing a scandi bevel back onto it and then you polished the entire grind to a mirror polish....it was exciting.
Very good video. Learned a few things. Thanks.
Good video with diagram. I would show a short example of the blade sharpened on a whetstone or diamond plate though to avoid the problem altogether.
With my scandi ground carving knives I'll strop them in between sharpening with compound but I use a very flat, glass backed kangaroo leather strop which reduces the convexing problem a lot. I also don't use much downward pressure, just enough to hold the knife in place. And when I notice that not working well anymore I sharpen them on metal diamond plate sharpener. Honestly scandi ground knives are a quite a bit more work when it comes to maintenance but if you need the capabilities you can't beat them.
Really enjoyed this and love the new episode format! I think this will be a great series. I'm not so focused on sharpening techniques and I know others aren't as well so this will offer a really nice service for those of us that need to learn more about how to sharpen and maintain our edges! Good job! P.S. how's the leg?👍👍👍
Thanks PG! I'll continue with some of this stuff for sure! leg is doing well! Coming along!
Really glad to hear it bud!
Great Vid... A+
Awesome. Thank you
The first time I did a zero grind on my scandi knife, it was scary sharp. But the edge didn't last. I enjoyed using it but I took some chips and rolls. Now I can't be bothered taking even more steel and time to fix that. So I keep factory microbevel edge on the scandi.
i hear people using secondary grind/edge/bevel interchangeably with micro grind/edge/bevel, but here's how I like to make the distinction. On saber grinds, you can clearly see the "secondary" bevel, it's certainly nowhere near as long as the primary, but you can clearly see that edge. Whereas for scandi, I do sharpen (since it typically doesn't need reprofiling, on higher grit stones) them to scandi zero, but raise them ever so slightly for a micro edge on finer/finishing stone. These micro edges are visually not as prominent as the secondary edge on a saber grind. Of course another thing to point out is that the primary bevel on saber is a lot shallower than the angle of a scandi knife. Anyway, long story short, I like having micro bevels on scandi knives; I feel you get over 90% of the cutting performance (if not more) and a lot tougher edge. I also love sabers too though; one can never have too many knives (unless you ask my wife....)
I agree with you. I also microbevel my scans is because a true Scandinavian edge on my Finnish puukkos and I see the edge literally flexing while working on harder woods. I know that puukkos are meant to whittle softer woods though. But where I live we have harder woods as well.
A week Scandi edge is not practical for me.
This is why I never use a strop. I have a 3/32x2x4 inch hardened steel plate for honing the edge.
Thank you for taking the myth out of knife sharpening and presenting clear facts. This channel has helped me tremendously.
Thank you sir this was very informative 😊
Well said bro. Even my blacksmith drives me crazy by putting on a convex edge with his belts, and when I want to put on a decent V edge (scandi) I need to sharpen around 3-4 days - each day, at least 2 x 3 hours on my stones which is absolutely a stone and time killing, useless piece of unnecessary work. I hate it.
What do you think about something like an MDF strop loaded with compound? Shouldn't convex the edge at all, but still polishes the bevel.
Found this video just in time,I thought if I kept on top of things with the strop it would be better for the blade but I see now how that is not right,mine was starting to convex after only a few strops.
Yea it can happen quickly!
Fully agree that stropping (especially if done improperly) will ruin a Scandi grind. A ceramic rod or a rod system (like Lansky Turn Box or Spyderco Sharpmaker) is a relatively easy way to maintain true Scandi grinds .
excellent vid sir
hi there! great explanation.what are the best grits to sharpen the knife? just for bushcraft and utilitarian purposes, not aesthetics
Ure right....... I get a bit carried away with my Bark River stropping compound. works find for my convex grinds but perhaps not advisable for scandis.
Since I use a polishing stone anyway I guess the compound strop (12K) is pointless
Stop winging the grinding is doing the work!! And it doesn't take a ton of time either!!
I've seen a lot of scandi's like this over the years. I always knew it as a scandi vex. It is a fairly common thing being that a lot of people just touch up edges in the field with something small like a dc4 and a small strop rather than taking the time to run it over the stone when they get home. On another note I always use a loaded strop on a scandi but only when it comes off the stone or ceramic. Anyways , that's my 2 cents worth. Thanks for another very informative video none the less and cheers till the next one!
thanks Chad! Yes, I should have thrown in the word scandivex, but most of these knives don't come from the factory with a vexed edge. most have a single bevel. If people don't mind the changes in edge geometry and sharpening style, it isn't a problem! I'm simply stating a recurring trend that I see! :-)
No doubt bud. I was just saying.
Weiderfan , mora use a micro bevel on all their knives because a true scandi is just to weak. A scandivex is not ruining your knife its improving it tenfold.
Derek Davies Exactly, I love my Garbergs micro bevel, I wasn't sure if I was gonna remove it or not but once I used it I clearly felt the difference much better.
Yes they do. They put a micro bevel on the scandi. Do your homework, i have with my own eyes received a mora from the factory and looked at the edge under magnification. What i saw was a secondary bevel. A clear secondary grind. You are full of it sorry.
Makes sense to me. Thanks