S9 Late Game Mapping Tier List/Infographic Link (Note: Tier List has received minor adjustments since video due to improved/more accurate calculation): docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gtrXRfICS7vaB2I05qeZwnyAYHEvOQjJ_UIHkGyQyrE/edit?usp=sharing S9 Data Sheet (Check out our new quantitative analysis for s9!): docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GxCfTXnpT10qFDAlLlrbU6TAYW0uiVeafiM9FjW_mYo/edit?usp=sharing S9 Anarchy Patch Notes: docs.google.com/document/d/1-oPLkYkrEicCbPnfIFonrL8R8-mLLVtoGt6NfqUE_qE/edit#heading=h.9kegd15e6zbz DH Loot Filter (Updated for S9): github.com/DarkHumility/DHFilter/blob/main/dark.filter AKA the ADevDH filter in the Launcher!
i love that you consistently do these every season, so when i want to play i can easily see what to start off with. you're an absolute legend, thanks dark
holy shit dude you really beefed it up for S9, much appreciated, skipped the last 2 seasons after playing every season since S2 and coming back for this one. Can't wait!
DH Thank you sir, appreciate every single second you take to test and make this. I cannot start a season without your lists. Have two young children so don’t have time to test myself. Truly thank you! Good luck in S9!!!
DUde this is amazing work man! thank you so much. I never even knew about PD2 but I am absolutely going to play it now, because I have such amazing guidance with your video and work. thanks man!
I generated some data from the Top 1000 & Top 200 of the ladder (*beta) and one thing I noticed was about half the entire player base is playing Dru/Nec and the least played is Sin and Barb, with it becoming even less of the distribution of top 200 (iirc it was something like 5% for barb/sin and 23-26% for dru/nec ea). Supply & demand is going to run prices up a ton on these builds.
Love the data. Best tier list yet. Some people will see letters and colors and get mad. What can you do. I'm curious if aoe builds will just scale better as someone focuses on higher density maps. Especially with the floor raised up on density. Poison Dagger might be interesting on fort maps. Would be cool to see something like a t1 map, .5 or 1 hr build tier list. Maybe next season there will be time for something like this.
With what you've beautifully crafted, I've decided to start with inferno, never ran one before. That's a big jump, I need to go read the patch more. Gonna run one with betas last day
great vid! but it just blows my mind you tested all that but forgot to try nord's sorceress. blizz proc + cold enchant ferocity+innocence. it was doing great last season. this should do even better
Thank you DH for this brilliant work, as always! Your researches give an inspiration every season. This time I pick CA zon, your video about it really impresses. Also wanted to check out new Poison Dagger necro, but it doesn't seem to be a smooth starter. Can't wait season 9 to start! Feels like a New Year eve 😄
Great video. I would love to see Vengance get the Poison Dagger-style rework. Maybe not an infinite spread mechanic but some kind of multiple AoE proc on hit to help it out. Or just a general animation speed up.
Ah yes, just the man i was waiting for! Thanks for this, it's so useful to figure out what to roll each season, even though i always finish with the same build every past 5 seasons lol Haha, no wonder people thought feral rage would suck on wolfhowl, they don't know that at high end, it has the same attack speed as fury. So this is a brilliant change, definitely makes me want to give it a shot. Finally feels like what it should be, a cross between beardudu and wolfdudu and a sword using variant.
Assasin venom is best used on the shadow master, If you got a lvl 29 cobra and a lvl 49 Master and a lvl 49 venom master gets: a cobra synergie at 15 from cobra ( if you got 1 hard point the half of total sum counts as synergy) , Master gets 1/3 from master skill as synergy added together with any other skill synergy, this is at lvl 49 a lvl 17. This gives a total synergy at lvl 32. And then the venom is cast at lvl lvl 17 from master and a lvl 25 from venom. this is cast at lv l42 with a synergy at 32. Yes master can get synergy over 20 points. You should also spend a hard point into blade shield if you got this route. No hard point no synergy.
Honestly farming T1 maps is just as efficient as farming T3s and most builds in the game can melt T1s. The tier list is amazing of course but you shouldn't put too too much importance into a build rank on there, play what you find fun is the way to go in pd2
thanks for the vid! I was following a guide for key farming with sorc which suggested meteor for lvl into combustion. Is inferno a viable option for keys instead, given it's better now?
@@darkhumility4915 thanks for answering! Am about to respec, so thinking carefully. Would you say combust is too worse than inferno? The one thing that puts me off a bit is the inferno playstyle of just hanging while holding right button...
It's actually really annoying how sorc is just always the best, and it's not even close. Makes it feel bad to play other classes because it's just not as efficient.
Hey bro im gonna play lightning sorc for the first time and probably stop in act2 a couple of days to farm runes. But now i wonder if its possible to use nova all the way through acts or if you would recommend another skill? Thanks for your hard work as always😊
Not sure what you mean with this act2 stuff but I ran nova from day one last season. Not recommended for hardcore but softcore is fine. It is a unique and fun play style, very tense. Get used to farming trash items for gold so you can resurrect your merc over and over. Once you get your resists and FCR sorted with a mang song in your hands the build absolutely launches into space and that felt good, like I continually gained power through the season. For softcore I would say sticking to your guns rather than doing whatever is S++ for leveling then switching when you have gear is the more rewarding way to play, psychologically. Just feels more like a journey. I say if you feel inclined, then do it.
check the data sheet! The calculation now takes into account true density increase not just the % on the maps themselves, this led to about 20 small readjustments.
I'm playing HC and I hesitate to make a 2-H sacrifice or a 2-H physical charge. On your tierlist, sacrifice is not recommended for HC, is it because I would have a really hard time to survive by changing his gear? Sacrifice looks way more fun to play though.
@@darkhumility4915 Thank you, would you say that one or the other is playable from the start (lvl 1) or do you have to go holy bolt first to get some gear?
How exactly do is use that kill count command? /kill count says its reserved for admins, which would be a shame if only a limited number of people can access this info
this is a problem with every build or rather a great number of them. But you usually dont want to loot tons of stuff anyways so this tends to be negligible :)
thats about right but its d2 u can create allmost every build and get +1 to tier if u put enough effort to it. for example u rate bear maul c tier. but i rate it to ~s tier if u go ursa purgatory tomb reaver etc all eth ~50kphys dmg. same goes for multi bowa
I have a QUESTION... - that’s why BERSERK carries TWO ONE-HANDED axes in his hands, but ASSASSIN doesn’t... - THAT IS, he cannot TAKE IN BOTH HANDS, that is, one FLYING KNIFE IN THE LEFT HAND AND ONE FLYING KNIFE IN THE RAIN HAND. why is HE a NINJA... (after all, there are many videos on CZcams where PEOPLE who know how to quickly HIT a target with both hands, that is, in both the left and right hands there is a Blade that can hit the target with great speed.) - a game that is no longer young and I understand that such MECHANICS was ORIGINALLY... (like the one that allowed Others to Use TELEKINESIS on weapons 33/33 times or FIREBALL 40/40... now it was not noticed by me, although I saw it a couple of days ago just to WARM UP before the NEW toy SERAPH: In the Darkness on Steam, it seems to be also DIABLO 2 but in a new Wrapper, but in it you need something to buy or sell, you have to pay 50 bucks) - But I’m not talking about that. For example, I have a License and I wanted to run through a couple of ACTS and remember how it is... and then I was distracted for a short time - and I didn’t have time to pick up a LOT OF THINGS I NEEDED... (after all, Americans love to rummage through other people's things, BUYING various ABANDONED CONTAINERS and FIND SOMETHING VALUABLE THERE... - so that's what I'm talking about... I was distracted and I didn't have time to pick up a lot of my things that could be NETWORKED and A LOT COULD BE THERE MY RUNE STONES and... but THEY WERE MISSING... and there could have been something VALUABLE FOR ME, and many PEOPLE JUST FLY AWAY WITHOUT TAKING A LOT OF VALUABLE THINGS... - he’s probably level 99 and I’m level 25 and he doesn’t need them, but FOR ME THESE ARE VERY VALUABLE THINGS) ...)
I've been observing most of your testing process and I love your content, but here's what I think is wrong: You're testing many builds on the Blood moon map, but how many people would be able to spam this map given that it's Mal each? You tested a few lightning builds in lightning immune maps - Phlegethon. You tested physical builds in Blood Moon and Throne of insanity maps when there's better choices for them - Sanatorium and Phlegethon. You compared kills per minute on builds that didn't do Blood moon map to builds that did given there's huge difference in the maps' base density. Generally, I think Blood moon is the worst choice for testing given its limited availability, high price and much higher base density. No hard feelings! I hope my feedback improves future testing and looking forward to more of your content
Bro you got to give the man some slack he tested like 50 builds in 3 days, it's just to get a feel for what's can clear quickly. Obviously some builds are suited for maps with tight halls instead of open spaces, we know that, so let the man cook or make your own content
He tested every build on two or more tier 3 maps. He wanted to see how the builds performed on their best maps and then averaged the results from their best two. He stated many times that he didn't want to solely use blood moon because of its limited availability due to popularity. He's been transparent about the methods and constraints and has simply based this tier list on the results he got.
Almost every build tier was constructed using the average of their 2 best maps, so blood moon is a good indicator but definitely not the sole determinant and never was for any build tiered. Phelgethon has lightning immunes, but very sparse and many lightning builds absolutely shred there. That's what i found with testing. Throne of Insanity is usually more dense than Phlegethon, so it depends on the physical build but while i dont have the data, I did test multiple builds in more than 2 maps. The data was discarded though due to not being in the top 2. Blood Moon, if not a best map for certain builds, does usually disadvantage them somewhat but that's just because that map is so good. So long as Blood Moon has the same drop rate as other maps and is a map, Blood Moon must always at least have relevance for testing! Good points and question!
In an experiment you have to control something to measure a variable, in this case he's controlling the map to measure the effectiveness of the build. Without controlling the map he'd subject the experiment to a lot more variability. Maybe the poison immune maps are way easier than the fire immune maps, etc. Plus he did test many of the builds in different maps, Bloodmoon was just the constant. The method is not perfect but it is about as well as you could hope given the resources available to test.
Why are you putting WoF as the strongest Sin starter? It's just 100% wrong, WoF is weak early and struggle with all content including cows and was arguably nerfed this patch.
S9 Late Game Mapping Tier List/Infographic Link (Note: Tier List has received minor adjustments since video due to improved/more accurate calculation):
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gtrXRfICS7vaB2I05qeZwnyAYHEvOQjJ_UIHkGyQyrE/edit?usp=sharing
S9 Data Sheet (Check out our new quantitative analysis for s9!):
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GxCfTXnpT10qFDAlLlrbU6TAYW0uiVeafiM9FjW_mYo/edit?usp=sharing
S9 Anarchy Patch Notes:
docs.google.com/document/d/1-oPLkYkrEicCbPnfIFonrL8R8-mLLVtoGt6NfqUE_qE/edit#heading=h.9kegd15e6zbz
DH Loot Filter (Updated for S9):
github.com/DarkHumility/DHFilter/blob/main/dark.filter
AKA the ADevDH filter in the Launcher!
i love that you consistently do these every season, so when i want to play i can easily see what to start off with. you're an absolute legend, thanks dark
bless you for your hard work dark i look forward to this tier list every single season
For a little bit, i was thinking that you won't made the s9 tier list and now when i saw it, i am very happy, good job man 💪
holy shit dude you really beefed it up for S9, much appreciated, skipped the last 2 seasons after playing every season since S2 and coming back for this one. Can't wait!
I am loving this in depth science you guys are digging into for Diablo 2 🧑🔬 So excited about S9, see you all there!
The only video i wanna see before pd2 season start, keep it up DH!
Sick work again, mate! Cheers and looking forward to s9!
Appreciate all the hard work putting this list together. Thank you, and happy season 9!
great job man! The whole community loves these!
DH Thank you sir, appreciate every single second you take to test and make this. I cannot start a season without your lists. Have two young children so don’t have time to test myself. Truly thank you! Good luck in S9!!!
DUde this is amazing work man! thank you so much. I never even knew about PD2 but I am absolutely going to play it now, because I have such amazing guidance with your video and work. thanks man!
I need to give you my big thanks for the infos! What a professional data!
The DH tier list video/spreadsheet to D2 is like a Mathil cosplay is to PoE. Every season we all tune in for it!
Love the teir lists! Thank you for all you hard work and dedication. good luck this season brother!!!
I generated some data from the Top 1000 & Top 200 of the ladder (*beta) and one thing I noticed was about half the entire player base is playing Dru/Nec and the least played is Sin and Barb, with it becoming even less of the distribution of top 200 (iirc it was something like 5% for barb/sin and 23-26% for dru/nec ea). Supply & demand is going to run prices up a ton on these builds.
oh always! And of course whatever the streamers play makes demand!
Thanks for the hard work on the tier list DH
You are the best !
He shows up every season and delivers. Please don't ever go out to get milk and never come back dad.
Great job on this! :) If you could post some of the testing footage from the cold/fire arrow that would be awesome!
I just did!
Love the data. Best tier list yet. Some people will see letters and colors and get mad. What can you do.
I'm curious if aoe builds will just scale better as someone focuses on higher density maps. Especially with the floor raised up on density. Poison Dagger might be interesting on fort maps.
Would be cool to see something like a t1 map, .5 or 1 hr build tier list. Maybe next season there will be time for something like this.
poison strike/dagger actually works by feeding off density now so probably not that one via fortify. But yeah i can only ever test so much :D.
With what you've beautifully crafted, I've decided to start with inferno, never ran one before. That's a big jump, I need to go read the patch more. Gonna run one with betas last day
I am commenting on this video. Praise the algorithm.
Commenting on the comment
My alarm is set for 5:55 hours before work... perfect :)
great vid! but it just blows my mind you tested all that but forgot to try nord's sorceress. blizz proc + cold enchant ferocity+innocence. it was doing great last season. this should do even better
Thank you DH for this brilliant work, as always! Your researches give an inspiration every season. This time I pick CA zon, your video about it really impresses. Also wanted to check out new Poison Dagger necro, but it doesn't seem to be a smooth starter. Can't wait season 9 to start! Feels like a New Year eve 😄
Great video. I would love to see Vengance get the Poison Dagger-style rework. Maybe not an infinite spread mechanic but some kind of multiple AoE proc on hit to help it out. Or just a general animation speed up.
Ah yes, just the man i was waiting for! Thanks for this, it's so useful to figure out what to roll each season, even though i always finish with the same build every past 5 seasons lol
Haha, no wonder people thought feral rage would suck on wolfhowl, they don't know that at high end, it has the same attack speed as fury. So this is a brilliant change, definitely makes me want to give it a shot. Finally feels like what it should be, a cross between beardudu and wolfdudu and a sword using variant.
time to get new inspiration!
A TIER LIST I CAN TRUST~~~~~~
Like and comment even though I haven’t played PD2 in a few seasons. Great job DH!
thanks g. appreciate the work you put into these lists. good luck in the season!
the legend! your work is appreciated
WOF hydra and meteor are top 3 dclone killers ive done them all every season with budget gear very safe and very strong
Smite test strikes again! Awesome job!
ah yes it definitely strikes!
today is the day boys, ty DH!
Assasin venom is best used on the shadow master, If you got a lvl 29 cobra and a lvl 49 Master and a lvl 49 venom master gets: a cobra synergie at 15 from cobra ( if you got 1 hard point the half of total sum counts as synergy) , Master gets 1/3 from master skill as synergy added together with any other skill synergy, this is at lvl 49 a lvl 17. This gives a total synergy at lvl 32. And then the venom is cast at lvl lvl 17 from master and a lvl 25 from venom. this is cast at lv l42 with a synergy at 32. Yes master can get synergy over 20 points. You should also spend a hard point into blade shield if you got this route. No hard point no synergy.
Honestly farming T1 maps is just as efficient as farming T3s and most builds in the game can melt T1s. The tier list is amazing of course but you shouldn't put too too much importance into a build rank on there, play what you find fun is the way to go in pd2
How is immolation arrow as a starter? It had a good review for bossing but don’t know how it fairs in other manners
Summons are really hard to play in Dclone because they target the turrets
Can i start with arctic blast druid through like normal+nm, and then go fire?
LETS GO!
thanks for the vid!
I was following a guide for key farming with sorc which suggested meteor for lvl into combustion.
Is inferno a viable option for keys instead, given it's better now?
of course!
@@darkhumility4915 thanks for answering! Am about to respec, so thinking carefully. Would you say combust is too worse than inferno? The one thing that puts me off a bit is the inferno playstyle of just hanging while holding right button...
Great job!
Can you make a quick video on the Mages + Ele Revives build?
How big of a change is the next hit always miss bug fix? Always the best work
it is a decent change! Lot less clunkiness!
what happened since cold and fire arrow moved to A+?
recalculation using better formula. Slightly improved and now its as accurate as it can get.
Great job per usual, kind of boring though Sorc are ALWAYS on top
well sorc got some buffs for quality of life, and sorc is just fast. It moves fast and that's all there is to it!
It's actually really annoying how sorc is just always the best, and it's not even close. Makes it feel bad to play other classes because it's just not as efficient.
Thanks a lot 🎉❤
Degen army member here,
Where's the Light Radius build?
oh im sure its coming...season 20 or something
DH is the man!
Hey bro im gonna play lightning sorc for the first time and probably stop in act2 a couple of days to farm runes. But now i wonder if its possible to use nova all the way through acts or if you would recommend another skill? Thanks for your hard work as always😊
You can but you need to get up and close and personal with the monsters. The biggest challenge will be survivability.
Not sure what you mean with this act2 stuff but I ran nova from day one last season. Not recommended for hardcore but softcore is fine. It is a unique and fun play style, very tense. Get used to farming trash items for gold so you can resurrect your merc over and over. Once you get your resists and FCR sorted with a mang song in your hands the build absolutely launches into space and that felt good, like I continually gained power through the season. For softcore I would say sticking to your guns rather than doing whatever is S++ for leveling then switching when you have gear is the more rewarding way to play, psychologically. Just feels more like a journey. I say if you feel inclined, then do it.
nice work
cold/fire arrow went form S- to A+. what happened?
check the data sheet! The calculation now takes into account true density increase not just the % on the maps themselves, this led to about 20 small readjustments.
Nice bro, gj, insaine work. Just one more thing... Why I cant play single player atm? ☺️ Tnx, peace
disabled for season launch tomorrow
Thanks ☺️
Thank you!
I'm playing HC and I hesitate to make a 2-H sacrifice or a 2-H physical charge. On your tierlist, sacrifice is not recommended for HC, is it because I would have a really hard time to survive by changing his gear? Sacrifice looks way more fun to play though.
oh you 100% can by changing some gear! Forgot to change that on the list actually! Ty!
@@darkhumility4915 Thank you, would you say that one or the other is playable from the start (lvl 1) or do you have to go holy bolt first to get some gear?
Any opinion on Blood Golem now that their open wounds gets proc'd by thorns aura?
How exactly do is use that kill count command? /kill count says its reserved for admins, which would be a shame if only a limited number of people can access this info
Much appreciated dh
where should i farm as sorc hc start
depends on the element! Arcane and boss farming always good!
hey what u think is better for early farming frozen orb or Ice Barrage ?
both are solid! Ice barrage is big though!
The problem i have with your poison builds is not factoring in having to run back through the map to loot
this is a problem with every build or rather a great number of them. But you usually dont want to loot tons of stuff anyways so this tends to be negligible :)
What would you say is the fastest/easiest to GRush with in 8 player game
THANKS!
hy man, how do you install your item/loot filter ?
ADevDH in launcher!
@@darkhumility4915 thx
Fucking bless you buddy. You tha Bible.
thats about right but its d2 u can create allmost every build and get +1 to tier if u put enough effort to it. for example u rate bear maul c tier. but i rate it to ~s tier if u go ursa purgatory tomb reaver etc all eth ~50kphys dmg. same goes for multi bowa
well its about monster kills but yeah. Mobility is really important when it comes to what ends up killing monsters fast!
The best around
What is the command to show monster kills per minute
People! Please subscribe to this man
magemancer is good for s9?
B Rank is solid! Great build!
Wow i thought druid summoner would rank higher i guess not
map speed isn't really its forte. As a starter in LOD content and uber kill and group mapper it is amazing though!
I have a QUESTION...
- that’s why BERSERK carries TWO ONE-HANDED axes in his hands, but ASSASSIN doesn’t...
- THAT IS, he cannot TAKE IN BOTH HANDS, that is, one FLYING KNIFE IN THE LEFT HAND AND ONE FLYING KNIFE IN THE RAIN HAND. why is HE a NINJA... (after all, there are many videos on CZcams where PEOPLE who know how to quickly HIT a target with both hands,
that is, in both the left and right hands there is a Blade that can hit the target with great speed.)
- a game that is no longer young and I understand that such MECHANICS was ORIGINALLY... (like the one that allowed Others to Use TELEKINESIS on weapons 33/33 times or FIREBALL 40/40... now it was not noticed by me,
although I saw it a couple of days ago just to WARM UP before the NEW toy SERAPH: In the Darkness on Steam, it seems to be also DIABLO 2 but in a new Wrapper, but in it you need something to buy or sell, you have to pay 50 bucks)
- But I’m not talking about that. For example, I have a License and I wanted to run through a couple of ACTS and remember how it is...
and then I was distracted for a short time - and I didn’t have time to pick up a LOT OF THINGS I NEEDED...
(after all, Americans love to rummage through other people's things, BUYING various ABANDONED CONTAINERS and FIND SOMETHING VALUABLE THERE... - so that's what I'm talking about... I was distracted and I didn't have time to pick up a lot of my things that could be NETWORKED and A LOT COULD BE THERE MY RUNE STONES and...
but THEY WERE MISSING... and there could have been something VALUABLE FOR ME, and many PEOPLE JUST FLY AWAY WITHOUT TAKING A LOT OF VALUABLE THINGS...
- he’s probably level 99 and I’m level 25 and he doesn’t need them, but FOR ME THESE ARE VERY VALUABLE THINGS) ...)
LETS FUCKIN GOOOOO
I've been observing most of your testing process and I love your content, but here's what I think is wrong:
You're testing many builds on the Blood moon map, but how many people would be able to spam this map given that it's Mal each?
You tested a few lightning builds in lightning immune maps - Phlegethon.
You tested physical builds in Blood Moon and Throne of insanity maps when there's better choices for them - Sanatorium and Phlegethon.
You compared kills per minute on builds that didn't do Blood moon map to builds that did given there's huge difference in the maps' base density.
Generally, I think Blood moon is the worst choice for testing given its limited availability, high price and much higher base density.
No hard feelings! I hope my feedback improves future testing and looking forward to more of your content
Bro you got to give the man some slack he tested like 50 builds in 3 days, it's just to get a feel for what's can clear quickly. Obviously some builds are suited for maps with tight halls instead of open spaces, we know that, so let the man cook or make your own content
@@projekt84 I am only trying to give constructive criticism as I love getting some myself so this is my way of showing that I care.
He tested every build on two or more tier 3 maps. He wanted to see how the builds performed on their best maps and then averaged the results from their best two. He stated many times that he didn't want to solely use blood moon because of its limited availability due to popularity. He's been transparent about the methods and constraints and has simply based this tier list on the results he got.
Almost every build tier was constructed using the average of their 2 best maps, so blood moon is a good indicator but definitely not the sole determinant and never was for any build tiered. Phelgethon has lightning immunes, but very sparse and many lightning builds absolutely shred there. That's what i found with testing. Throne of Insanity is usually more dense than Phlegethon, so it depends on the physical build but while i dont have the data, I did test multiple builds in more than 2 maps. The data was discarded though due to not being in the top 2. Blood Moon, if not a best map for certain builds, does usually disadvantage them somewhat but that's just because that map is so good. So long as Blood Moon has the same drop rate as other maps and is a map, Blood Moon must always at least have relevance for testing! Good points and question!
In an experiment you have to control something to measure a variable, in this case he's controlling the map to measure the effectiveness of the build. Without controlling the map he'd subject the experiment to a lot more variability. Maybe the poison immune maps are way easier than the fire immune maps, etc. Plus he did test many of the builds in different maps, Bloodmoon was just the constant. The method is not perfect but it is about as well as you could hope given the resources available to test.
6h help
GGGGGGGGs
Not first!
NHAM begone
3rd
Why are you putting WoF as the strongest Sin starter? It's just 100% wrong, WoF is weak early and struggle with all content including cows and was arguably nerfed this patch.
I had no problems whatsoever. Skill issue?
def skill issue
@@ChRicke-rt9hy Everything "works" in pd2 but sin has atleast 5 build that are stronger starters then WoF.
@@McKennasFeverDream ok
Never had a problem starting WoF sin