TERRIFYING Close Call: Emirates 777 Nearly Crashes on Takeoff in Dubai
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 28. 06. 2024
- 3rd March, 2022:
Update:
The preliminary report for this incident has now been released. Here are some excerpts:
The Commander stated that during cockpit preparation, she noticed that the altitude selector was set to 0000 feet and she selected it to 4,000 feet, which was also verified by the flight data recorder. The selection of 4,000 feet on the altitude selector was in accordance with the planned standard instrument departure (SID) of SENPA 2F1.
The Commander stated that after lift-off, and during climb, she followed the flight director command. However, the Aircraft rate of climb reached to a maximum of approximately 800 feet per minute. The flight crew were not able to adhere to published climb gradient of the SID due to the shallow climb.
In light of this, the following correction applies to the video:
- The crew did in fact notice that the ALT window was set at 0000, and they fixed this.
However, the hypothesis in the video that the pilot flying blindly followed the flight director was correct.
Hopefully the final report will examine the underlying causes for these errors.
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Update 1: A number of commenters on this video who are 777 pilots, or who know 777 pilots, have said that it is more likely that the correct altitude HAD been set on the autopilot before takeoff, but that the flight directors had been turned on before this altitude was set, meaning that the autopilot was still in âAltitude Holdâ mode, at airport elevation.
In other words, the Autopilot/Flight Directors thought that the pilots wanted it to fly at 0 feet, even though the pilots had set the correct altitude (4000 feet) on the autopilot panel. This is because the pilots had turned on the flight director BEFORE changing the altitude from 0ft to 4000ft, rather than after.
This is a known quirk of the 777 autopilot, and it is possible that for whatever reason, the pilots were not aware of this on that night.
If true, this still does not explain the behaviour of the aircraft on takeoff. Takeoffs are performed manually, and there is no known reason as of yet, that the pilots would lift off so late, or fly so low once they had lifted off.
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How did an Emirates Boeing 777 carrying up to 354 people nearly crash just after takeoff from Dubai International Airport just before Christmas in 2021?
Full details of the incident have yet to emerge, but early reports, as well as a NOTAM (Notice to Airmen) from Emirates, suggests that an over-dependence on automation by the pilots may be the culprit.
This video uses publicly available sources as of 30th December 2021 to recreate what may have taken place. Disclaimer: This video is not a definitive account of what happened. More details will emerge in the coming weeks, which may show that events transpired differently. If this is the case, the video will be updated to reflect this new understanding of events.
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All music licensed through Epidemic Sound
Pictures:
AF 447:
Hansueli Krapf This file was uploaded with Commonist., CC BY-SA 4.0 creativecommons.org/licenses/..., via Wikimedia Commons
Asiana 214:
NTSB, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
Emirates 521 Final Report:
www.gcaa.gov.ae/en/ePublicati...
Sources:
avherald.com/h?article=4f24b2d7
www.pprune.org/rumours-news/6...
onemileatatime.com/news/emira...
00:00 Intro
01:28 Takeoff
02:31 Immediate Aftermath
02:48 NOTAM
05:40 Automation Dependency
09:08 Looking forward - ZĂĄbava
I've been flying the A-380 for the last 10 years. But I experienced something similar on the B-777 years ago while taking off from SFO. MCP settings were correctly set. But when I hit the TOGA switches for takeoff, the vertical mode went to ALT instead of TO/GA. The FD pitch bar dropped to below the horizon. The aircraft was already rolling and after a quick scan to check that there were no other faults, I decided to continue the takeoff and reverted to basic flying. The FMAs eventually reverted to normal during the climb out and the rest of the flight was uneventful. A post flight investigation conducted by Boeing found an anomaly in the system.
Maybe there is an issue with b777
seems like boeings like to kiss the ground
@@MrYousufgilani My friend in another airline experienced something similar on a B747. Could be a Boeing issue.
@@l.n963 dark joke
@@l.n963 đđđđ
Any pilot that blindly follows the autopilot commands when he can clearly see outside that things arenât right, should be fired as that is incompetence of a nearly criminal level.
But; first, to fire his bosses which r paying low wages.
The same should happen to people who write useless comments like yours without having aby clue of what did really happen!
Jealous of pilots making good money? Hahaha
@@peter58peter I'm reasonably sure pilots at Emirates are paid pretty handsomely...
@@pistolready9874 Please enlighten us oh superior one.
As a 30k hour (retired) airline pilot, Iâm totally stunned by this incident. I have always believed that it is absolutely critical to continue to exercise hand flying skills, and avoid total dependency on automation.
As a Machinist (45 years) retired I see the same thing in CNC machining! It was done before computers but can no longer be done without them, what changed?
@@giovii2 So you know exactly what happened do you? So close to a total disaster, yet onwards they flew.
There are a lot of experts stunned by this event. The results of the investigation will be very interesting indeed.
(I have heard some VERY interesting information about what went on with one of the crew members involved but canât confirm the source or the accuracy, so wonât spread what may or may not be correct information.)
@@giovii2 Dear Giovanni, hand flying skills are indeed needed for everyone who operates any airborne vehicle đ
@@hedonzx822 absolutely agree. All Iâm saying is letâs wait for the investigation and not base judgment based on video speculation.
@@giovii2 thatâs also correct đđ»I fly regularly my Piper Super Cub, not much automation to handle đ
"The pilot monitoring was doing a bad job of monitoring...but he was doing a good job of not flying." Oof.
That was harsh but true
He was watching porn on takeoff
Heh, my archery guy shows up in odd places.
Use less autopilot and use common sense u have to get sleep before flying a plane no drinking be alert listen to the aircontrolers and dont second guess anything sad things happen we have to do more to make sure the crew the planes are on board of everthng u have the reaponsibilfy to land this plane to its destination the best u can
@@cynthiadavid5282 autopilot shouldn't be used below 500 ft altitude or during takeoff esp in clear weather, but yea this just looks like the pilots aren't skilled manually
Having flown out of Dubai often as a pilot, I think I have a good guess why they suddenly started climbing as normal. About 15 seconds after take-off youâre instructed to change radio frequency (from tower to departure). More often than not youâll receive a new (higher) cleared altitude at that point in time. I guess that that woke them up, having to change that 0 on the altitude selector to whatever they were cleared to.
@@daftvader4218 I think piloipilot81 might be right. The report quotes the female pilot, saying she "followed the flight director." after takeoff. Why she buzzed the buildings, rather than use common sense and pull up, only she can answer.
ive taken this flight a few times.
Is she still employed?
@@MK-jq8owdamn đ
@@user-mp9rd4hg8b She has a modicum of an excuse, she was focused on her instruments, there is a never ending debate about why didn't she notice that the flight director bar wasn't above 10 degrees.
As for the other three pilots, can I ask which direction they were facing?
I have 50 yrs of solid flying in my hands. My last job was as a commander of a 747-800.
I have denounced the loss of flying skills over and over because of airline policies to focus on FOQA programs that blame pilots for small flight deviations during approach and take-off whilst hand flying. Management wants perfect stable approaches that only automation can provide.
Whilst I agree it is a necessity particularly in busy airspace and airports, there are occasions where pilots want to handfly their aircraft but they are scared to do so for the fear of job action if they make even small mistakes. Furthermore, simulators are used mostly to check pilots standards required by the aeronautical administrations and cessions are a boaring repeat over and over of similar exercises ( I know : I have been subjected to hundreds of them over the span of my career ). Rarely is the pilot allowed to learn some hand flying skills as simulator time is rationed to the strict minimum compatible with the required standards. This phenomenon has unfortunately fostered a generation of flight deck managers barely able to handfly their aircraft. This could be fixed easily with regular and non penalizing training on cheaper but highly sophisticated synthetic vision simulators build only for hand flying.
Can you explain why the plane didnât take off itself at a certain speed. Why wait for 400kmh. If rotate is at 270 then I would have thought it would have at some point lifted itself into the air?
@@colinashby3775 As if they forgot the flaps on takeoff, but the plane would have warned about this. Or were they so focused on the flight director that they ignored critical alarms as well?
@@johnpekkala6941 I personally think that 2 years of COVID has stopped then brain from functioning because they were out of practice. Wondering if other airlines are saying the same?
Mind you there were enough cargo flights happening.
Well said. You hit the nail on the head
I am never getting on a plane again, thank you for posting this john. i have suspected exactly what you have said for years especially after the air france disaster. i ve always thought that corporate greed is erroding safety in the air. i dont want to get on a plane where the pilots manual flying skills are not up to the job unfortunately this scenario is more common place now than ever.
Great analysis đ Hope that we'll see more details about that incident...
Thank you, Denys! I really enjoy your videos, by the way.
@@GreenDotAviation Many thanks! Stay Awesome!
I've watched a lot of these air crash analysis videos over the years, and your format is my favorite so far. I love how you present the information in a straightforward manner without dramatization, as well as the visuals. Narration is great too
Amen!
Holy moly, how can this basic pre-flight check list item be missed by not one, or two but potentially 4 pilots. This is truly scary.
Absolutely spot onâŠ..Iâve flown for 19 years and seen this issue many timesâŠ..especially with younger pilots who lack hands on manual flying experienceâŠâŠa minimum hours policy of hand flying should be made mandatory on every flight, say for example 20%âŠâŠ.I know of an 18 hour flight on a B777 BA flight where the crew actually flew the plane for 12 minutes!âŠ..incredibly, this is not uncommon
That is crazy! For people who donât think or know much about aviation, they have no clue how little âsomeâ pilots actually do.
I was on a flight with a lady who thought they hand fly the entire time. I laughed and said nah, they havenât been hand flying since we took off.
@@davidc4615 exactly
12 is actually MORE than they usually hand fly it. It's usually takeoff to 500-1000 ft. and anywhere from 2500-500 feet on the landing. Probably about 7 minutes total.
@@DaveDepilot-KFRG you get my point though.?
That is true. In my company, First Officers rarely get to hand fly the aircraft as the flight safety is so stringent with the FOQA exceeding the limits, hence the captains who are STOL cleared donât give flying to their juniors as they are accountable for any incident however minor it maybe. Over the years it has become a habit, rather fear of some FOs who hesitate to hand fly i.e takeoffs and landings, even when given the chance, as they donât have the confidence in them. Basically the captains fly with FOQA in their thoughts. Not a safe or proactive culture here....
Assumptions on my part: going through the pre flight checklist covers the altitude control. Not going through the checklist is the underlying issue, not the previous pilots resetting the altitude.
Exactly. Pilots arriving / mechanics working on the ground, etc. should theoretically be able to leave the aircraft in whatever configuration, and it shouldn't matter because of pre-flight checklists.
I'm stunned at their decision not to return to Dubai and continue on to DC, and I'm also more than a bit curious about the decision to fly the aircraft back to Dubai on schedule before a thorough inspection.
Thatâs true.
czcams.com/video/bsSKt5mN3a4/video.html
Good info from an experienced pilot explaining the same in detail
he is assuming they did not, maybe they did and there was a malfunction
Assumption on my part would be that this is incorrect and that would be quite a strange item on that particular checklist. Typically you will recieve your intitial climb altitude as part of your IFR clearance. This can easily happen after you run the preflight checks, although I really don't know the typical procedures on a 777. Before you recieve that clearance, there is little point in doing anything to the altitude selector because what for? Literally the only altitude you've been allowed to be at at that point is actually, indeed, zero.
WellâŠ.itâs not entirely correct that we Europeans are not flying manually. In SAS, where I work as a captain, it has always been encouraged to make visual and manual approaches when we can and traffic allows, even at night if we wish. Also itâs up to the pilot to hand fly departures as he/she fells for. The same goes for a number of European airlines like Finnair, LH and KLM. Take careâŠ.đđ
Yes, I was probably a bit heavy-handed on that bit. From what Iâve heard, itâs very operator-dependant. Thanks for the comment.
I thought after rotate, the whole point is to pull on the yoke and achieve positive climb rate and gear up. So strange that they kept flying so low for so long before realizing that they need to go flying.
Also amazed that they continued after going off the end of the runway.
I was completely unaware of this incident. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Truly shocking mis-management of the departure by the crew!!
This was the first video of yours I watched. Your delivery is straight to the point and factual. Subscribed.
As a retired corporate pilot I can tell you we see this kind of problem more and more. There seems to be a disconnect with the new training system with pilots and their automation. Pilots no longer spend enough time flying manually and getting that seat of your pants experience, so they can understand how an aircraft should be flying compared to how it is flying. This will eventually lead to the elimination of pilots altogether. It's sad to say, but eventually the public will begin to trust automation more than pilots, and computers will do all the flying.
Which is dangerous!
I came across your videos and absolutely love them. Compared to air crash investigation series from Nat Geo you give a more informative descriptions of events which I can tell, come from a real pilot. The close call cases are for me just as interesting as the crashes. There has been a series of very interesting cases in the last couple of years and so I am keen to learn on those recent events. Great voice, images and narrative. 10/10 thank you!!
I have only 1 question, that needs no automation or anything. When the aircraft reached Vr, WHY THEY DIDN'T PITCH UP? Like who the hell waits for the FD to pitch up before you rotate?????? Aren't you supposed to rotate and maintain a max of (i forgot) 15 degree nose up attitude? Like seriously they were waiting for the FD to guide them to rotate even though Vr went by, V2 went by, airspeed 200+, what the hell????? Like anyone at first would think it was a hydraulic failure for flight controls or something due to which they couldn't rotate, but seriously, after seeing the analysis, if this is actually the case, not just the pilots should be fired, their licence should be revoked because 3 captain and 1 FO or 2 Captains and 2 FO needs to go back to Day 1 of flight training - Familiarization Flight.
Excellent analysis. As an emirates pilot I can only say your comments are 100pc spot on
Many thanks!
As an Emirates pilot youâll know that what Green Dot reports as what happens isnât true.
Excellent video and only just found your channel so looking forward to more!
It might be possible to understand this event if the weather had been obscured, but in this case the view through the windshield should have made it obvious that something was wrong. Other clues should have been the time taken to reach V1, Vr and V2 and the consequent pitch changes (which didn't happen). I'd imagine the sound of the gear on the runway was odd, too.
A lot of the local pilots are trained in the simulator for the big planes and go straight in to flying these, without ever getting any decent flying experience and working their way up from small to big planes. It's probably cheaper to do this, when training and recruiting but you can now see the devastating effect it can have.
@A Aaa sorry, I'm not taking aim at local pilots but more so the way Emirates, as well as other middle east airlines, view their staff and training. Of all those 100 previous crashes, how many are completely down to pilots not following training?
You are indeed a rare gem on CZcams, this is excellent!
Thank you kindly!
Your format and presentation is the best I've seen in air accident investigation
Thatâs great, thank you!
Excellent review and presentation of this recent near disaster. There is ZERO excuse for how this crew acted during this takeoff. Unbelievable is the word that comes to mind.
I just can't imagine how the call for v1 rotate didn't trigger a reaction from the PIC? very odd
Should be V1, rotate
Itâs worth watching a series of training videos, for American Airlines, from about 1995, available on CZcams, called âchildren of the magenta- the automation paradoxâ. They are presented by a very engaging educator and airman of great experience; Captain Warren Vanderburgh(RIP). He talked about this very matter and how over-reliance on automation and under reliance on âlooking out the window (head down)â was plugging aircraft into terrain all over the world, with alarming frequency.
I've seen those! Am a big fan, he was a great educator.
Saw those like 800 times. A great series. Prob the best I have seen here on you tube, there is another great one about the making of 777 its a five documentary series also from nineties but its also wonderful to watch.
Thanks for sharingđ
Those changed the course of my whole career and made me a safer pilot I think. When I hear "cleared the visual" my action item is then: Autopilot OFF.
Folks think about it: Have you ever seen an aviation crash scenario video like this? A professionally done video with cogent and more than plausible explanations only a few days after the incident?
This guy should have a million subscribers. Thereâs no other aviation channel that does this an in addition also sheds new light on incidents we think we entirely understand after watching all the other channels.
Living in DUBAI this is absolutely brilliant yet chilling at the same time - subbed immediately đđđ
Your theory works for why they flew level at low altitude after takeoff but as a pilot with thousands of hours on big jets,theres no explanation for why they didn't raise the nose at Vr.
Every takeoff is manual and the procedure is to immediately input enough back pressure at Vr to raise the nose at 3° per second until the flight director becomes usable.Its instinctual to raise the nose at Vr,to not do it is inexplicable unless they were dicking around!
Hopefully there's a proper investigation into this which makes publicly available the reason that the rotation didn't occur as normal. Right now there is no known reason that this happened.
Youâre absolutely right, theyâre docking around đ€Łâïž
Thatâs what I was thinking, reaching rotation speed mandates pitching the nose up.
exactly, I don't think automation was the reason especially that continuing the flight instead of returning immedietely indicates for me that the crew maybe wanted to overwrite the CVR
@@GreenDotAviation There won't be any public investigation into this or the ones in the past, its Dubai, it will be covered up and the staff removed, the lid will be kept very tight on this one. DXB & Emirates hate bad publicity with a passion. Clearly they were dicking around, if they had returned, it would've been a full investigation there & then, retuning three days later, with the CVR being overwritten. Imagine Emirates asking for an investigation in the USA, when the 777 landed đ big cover up looming.
Your Videos are more informative and accurate than any other Aviation Channel. And I watch a lot of Aviation Channels. Well done your knowledge and accuratecy is of the highest level.
Great video. You touched on an interesting topic. Pilots, where they come from, the level automation they use.
I am a Pilot from Canada and I currently fly the B787. You spoke about how American pilots will hand fly more, than pilots in other parts of the world. I want to expand on that thought.
In North America, Canada in particular, we live in a country that covers a large geographical area. But, with much fewer people than in lets say Europe or most of Asia. Because of this we have many remote communities that are only accessible by plane and in winter, Ice roads, if they are lucky. What this does is it creates a need for smaller airplanes and pilots to operate them. Typically, in Canada a new pilot will start their carrer flying these planes. (King air's, PC-12, Navajo etc.) After having been a flight instructor or having flown float planes. They fly into dirt strips/ice strips, IFR and really gain experience and learn how to properly handle a plane. From there they will move up to a larger turbo prop i.e Beech 1900, Dash8, HS748 so on. (Or if they are really lucky a Metro Liner, which the ones I have been in have no autopilot.) From there, if they are lucky, they will then proceed to fly narrow body jets, with a few thousand hours of experience.
Outside of North America, this isn't always the case. In most countries you have pilots who have graduated with 200 hours learning to fly an B737 or A320 or sometimes bigger. They never really have a chance to "fly" a plane. When you step foot into these planes the auto pilot is on most of the time. The reason being, work load management. So they never in their careers really ever get to learn to fly a plane. They fly from ILS to ILS using autopilot and relying on simulator practice to get them any type of real stick time.
This is why, I think you see more North American pilots shutting the Auto pilot, maybe the auto thrust off, more than other pilots around the world. Its experience.
Now, dont get me wrong. I'm not saying anyone is better than anyone else. There is something to be said about a pilot who has never flown anything but larger aircraft and has had less of a chance to build "bad habits". But it's interesting you brought that up.
You are mistaken on one point : if the selected altitude was zero and the flight director was to indicate the correct pitch to maintain that altitude, it would have read above zero degrees. In level flight it would have pitched up to a value corresponding to the angle of attack. Initial pitch on my aircraft at takeoff is 18*. On approach, pitch is around six degrees up with the aircraft going downhill on a negative 3 * glide slope . This crew was probably looking at a pitch of around 6* up while hugging the ground. No doubt a number of alarms/ terrain warnings must have been blaring, adding to confusion. Flying at 3 am makes matters worse with âmental viscosityâ / startle effect in full swing.Usually flight director bars pitch up to the single engine pitch while on the ground. At V2, your takeoff safety speed is designed to allow proper climb out gradient. With that speed achieved and no engine failure detected, pitch is increased to maintain airspeed. Hope I didnât bore you to death.
Thanks for this, very interesting. This seems to be the emerging consensus about the flight director issue. Can you think of a reason that the FD was blindly obeyed throughout the takeoff? A few things that come to mind: 1) Fatigue, 2) fear of breaking EK SOPs and the airline being alerted to deviation from FD commands, 3) Fear that the aircraft was incapable (perhaps due to weight or power issues) of achieving a climb greater than that commanded by the FD.
@@GreenDotAviation ââŠFear of breaking EK SOPs â and consequent reporting of FD deviations wouldâve likely been a significant factor for control rigor mortis, this, apart from âmental viscosityâ at 3:00 AM, considering there were 4 pilots in the cockpit with terrain warning accompaniments. The punitive reporting Stasi culture prevalent in such airlines can be really insidious.
@@GreenDotAviation I think we can safely eliminate Option 1 because there were 4 pilots in the cockpit, fatigue could have been a factor on one of the pilots but almost impossible on all. Option 3 can be considered however its basic aviation knowledge to know that V2 is a safety speed that allows proper climb with a specific degree pitch, V2 speed was also probably passed/ announced before they even left the end of the runway (threshold) and also before their takeoff considering they they were 200+ knots on the ground, which means they knew that with their current speed they are very able to continue climb. Therefore option 2 ( fear of breaking EK SOPs) was probably the biggest factor in this almost fatal mistake especially with how strict EK is with its pilots following the SOP. Thats what I think
@Lady Tottington maybe do some research before commenting something stupid. A B77W wing span is 212ft, pretty sure a first grader would know that 212 feet is more than 75 feet đ
Shouldn't the setting of the initial climb target altitude (as delivered by the Clearance) be a part of the mandatory cockpit preparation procedures? I'm a simpilot and I've NEVER began a flight without asking for the (virtual) clearance and setting the initial altitude accordingly......how it's possible this may happen in a real flight?
It's a blessing in disguise. Now all airlines can take serious action on what could be a disaster if the crash happened. The good thing is no body was injured or killed and the plane sustained very minor damage. Its a very big lesson for everyone in the airline industry to get there crap together to avoid any future disaster.
As a veteran pilot of 37 years experience with now defunct Trans World Airlines I was shocked to see how much reliance on the auto-flight systems was being taught when I was forced to "downgrade" to the 757/767 after TWA parked all its L-1011s and 747s in the late 1990s. What came as a shock to me was the total reliance of most of the co-pilots on the autopilot. They would turn it on when the gear came up on takeoff, and either turn it off at minimums for landing or indeed allow the aircraft to "auto-land" itself. The Airbus Industries concept of "Pilot Proofing" their aircraft has allowed that concept to even be pushed by Boeing, with the 747-Max series. The recent fatal crashes at Lion Air and Ethiopian Airlines were completely avoidable if their crews had simply disconnected the auto flight system, turned off the electric stabilizer trim and hand flown the aircraft to a safe landing. Unfortunately they didn't have confidence in their "Stick and Rudder" skills to do so. Sophisticated aircraft being operated by computer programers rather than pilots will kill many people in the future if these problems aren't addressed, and quickly.
Unfortunately, you have a point . The more complex is one thing the easier is to break down at any moment in time .
Haven't had a guy put the autopilot on below 10k.. some take it all the way to altitude.. many click the autopilot off base leg or downwind on visuals... not on the bus but enjoying the boeing..
With all due respect Captain, I believe your arguments in regard to the 737 MAX crashes are only partially true. In the case of the Ethiopian crash, the crew did disconnect the electric stabilizer trim, however it did not succeed as the trim wheels cannot be moved in severe mis-trim conditions combined with a high airspeed. As the pilots pulled on the yoke to raise the nose, the aerodynamic forces on the tail's elevator would create an opposing force on the stabilizer trim jackscrew that would prevent the pilots from moving the trim wheel by hand. Pilots are not trained anymore on how to fix this jammed trim issue (as the system is so reliable nowadays) so they had no way to know. I think automation is positive and has improved aviation safety, however it is also true that pilots now have to be trained in both automation and manual flying which I guess doubles the amount of training they need to have. So when automation fails, they sometimes don't have the ability to hand fly to safety.
@@Jojos25 You are right that in a completely mistrimmed situation the forces might be too high on the trim wheel to do anything. But that situation could've been avoided completely had they identified the issue sooner and took control of their aircraft. An aircraft which was still perfectly flying until the situation got worse and worse without them intervening.
@@pilotmax I'm no expert here but even after disconnecting the system it would still trim down so they re engaged it and then it was all over...
Wow. If your analysis is accurate, itâs tremendously concerning that pilots can be this complacent.
Not so much complacent, as trained to use the automatic functions at the expense of manual flying
I have taken that flight before... Scary that it came so close to a crash!
A very well produced video, professional and concise. Raising some serious questions about the Emirates safety culture. I'm shocked this isn't all over the news.
If anything, after this, Emirates is even safer than ever.
czcams.com/video/bsSKt5mN3a4/video.html well explained by an experienced pilot.
My new favourite channel on youtube subscribed!
Sweet, welcome!
Thank you for thr clear presentation and explanation. Loved it!
Thank you CZcams algorithms for suggesting this. Love your channel and look forward to future releases.
More on the way âïž
@@GreenDotAviation cant wait â€ïž
Flight Radar24 has reported this incident. According to Flightradar24, one datapoint taken from the tracking data taken at 1.7 nautical miles from the end of the runway showed that the 777 was at 175 feet & 262 knots over Deira neighborhood. Flightradar24 goes on to say that a similar departure to Washington two days later was tracked at an altitude of 1550 feet over the same point. Really scary.
Still, there is a massive difference between flying at 75 feet (as reported in this video) vs 175 feet altitude.
@@vondahe The extra 100 ft was probably the difference between hitting the buildings and flying over them. But still, 175 ft is dangerously close to the ground. For comparison, the wingspan of the 777-300 ER is more than 200 ft.
Big difference in 1550 and 175 feet mate
@@vinithradhakrishnan8969 175 feet is around 40 meters which is basically nothing
It is mainly speculation at this stage, but I'd be interested to know if they "owned up" to this error or not. If not they frankly deserve to be dismissed (whether they were or not), but if they did and admitted their error/misjudgement then it should be taken as a good opportunity to ensure this can never happen again and move on with the correct extra training. Time will tell...
I agree. This was a symptom of a much larger issue, and as such, I donât necessarily think they should automatically be dismissed. Dismissing pilots on the spot who make mistakes, even egregious ones, is a good way to make other pilots hide their mistakes until they canât anymore.
@jmurray01 - the REAL problem, of what probably happened in this flight, and has already been PROVEN in several previous accidents and incidents, is the fact that this airline and other airlines put a higher priority on automation, instead of training the pilots to fly the plane... THAT is probably, what led-up to this incident that could easily have been one of the worst aircraft accidents, in the history of aviation... Leave the control of the planes to the Pilots... When they level-off at the cruising altitude that they were assigned to fly, then engage the auto-flight system....
Actually in aviation pilots are actively encouraged to "own up" to everything including things they would otherwise get away with without the worry of reprisals. Accepting pilots are human and learning from mistakes is a key part of safety.
There is a system that detects performance of the jet on modern planes and notifies the airline if the plane does anything extreme. If they didn't own up to the wonky take off Emirates would know either way.
Watch this experienced pilot saying about this incident, well explained czcams.com/video/bsSKt5mN3a4/video.html
Bang on! Subscribed.
Your analysis is spot on. Who is flying the plane? Automation dependence could be addressed by requiring pilots of these big machines to fly general aviation aircraft regularly in VFR.
Even GA acts in ifr...
Pilots shud learn how to fly in imc without the FD
Alas, more and more airlines are restricting the amount of manual handling their pilots can do on the line.
This should strictly be made as a rule like how they fly sim sessions every 6 months. They should be given a C152 to fly all the CPL maneuvers within at least PPL standards so they at least remember how to fly.
@@casilasgoaler of no use. An hour in a simulator flying these manoeuvres in the aircraft they actually fly would be more valuable. A 152 handles nothing like an A350.
@@peteconrad2077 well yeah then better that, whatever is more helpful
2:05 "75 feet is less than the wingspan of a 777". Incredible understatement. The wingspan of the 777 is over 210 feet.
Well he wasnt wrong that it was less than its wingspan
Relying on automation 99% of the time is the equivalent of us not remembering phone numbers anymore because of our âsmartâ phones
This is a bit of a worry, I am only a PPL holder, I had a similar experience myself many years ago when I was embarrassed enough to avoid weighing my three Lady passengers for the scenic flight in a C172. I cleared the fence at the end of the short runway by inches I thought it best to keep the aircraft level at about 40 feet AGL until I had enough speed to attempt a normal climb out. MTOW i has since been something that Iâve paid a lot more attention to. An interesting aside is that one of my friends who is an Airline pilot, neither likes flying or being a passenger in any of the aircraft we use our club because all of them require manual flying as most of the aircraft are not equipped with the sort of technology you would find in most commercial aircraft I need a feature of club competition flying involves a section during which the pilot is charged on his ability to fly a circuit with out reference to the instruments on the panel at all.
Were all 3 of those lady passengers... erm, overweight? :|
If the ankles are big that day I weigh . I donât see the point of being a pilot who doesnât like to hand fly. I like to hand fly especially on take off and approach. Only time I donât like It is during busy arrivals like going into the tristate area around New York âŠ
@@ChristomirRackov It doesn't take heavy people to overweigh a 172. It has been a long time since I flew one, but if memory is correct, with full fuel, the payload to reach max take off weight is only about 500-550, for passengers and baggage. So a man of 180, would leave 350-370 for 3 adult females. I've never taken 4 adults in a 172 or a cherokee, it's too much. Max is 3 adults, or 2 adults and 1-2 kids.
@@ljthirtyfiver So how do you land if you don't hand fly the approach into NY? Does your Flight Sim have auto land?
@@DaveDepilot-KFRG look closely at my comment again Iâll hand fly the approach but not such busy arrivals, let the auto pilot get that.
Emirates had a similar incident in Melbourne Australia in 2009, an A340 went long and took out structures at the end of the runway
Most of their pilots are good so when these things happen it should be a wake up call to do better. Both happened at night so I do wonder if things like this are more likely at night hence why I prefer day flights despite statics being in favour of night flights for less turbulence. They were ranked 6 or 7th in last yearâs 10 safest by Australiaâs safety rating called Airline ratings and I wonder what their rank will be this year
That was different. They punched in the incorrect takeoff weight.
@@mattjc1021 yes they did, when I watched that video it occured to me how easy it may be to make that mistake. For example enter 220 tonnes rather than 320. Kind a scary..
You animation is excellent, congratulations to you Sir. I just watched a replay of this flight on FR24, I am speechless, still on the ground at the End Safety Area, yes ZERO altitude!
Must have cleared the perimeter fence by maybe 20 feet? Have departed Dubai RW30R on a 777/300 many times, at that point the aircraft is usually about 400 feet. Its unthinkable
that 4 highly trained flight crew did not notice the lack of rotation as the aircraft was eating up the runway like a starved hungry puppy!
Like every incident, we must wait for the final report, its usually a combination of issues that allow these things to happen.
@@pistolready9874 Read my final few words ~Like every incident, we must wait for the final report, its usually a combination of issues that allow these things to happen~
Thank you to Microsoft for deciding to update the Flight Simulator for the next decade. We will see many more high quality animations because of this.
Automation is there to keep us safe. But it's not 'autonomous'.. Still requires the basics of common sense flight training as a wrapper over the automation.
I think airline pilots should be put flying simple craft once a month to keep them in touch with the essence of first-principles aviation..
And as others have said here in the comments, if the autopilot is configured wrongly, it should sound alarms.
Cheers for the vid đ
well explained by an experienced pilot czcams.com/video/bsSKt5mN3a4/video.html
Great content, much love from Johannesburg, South Africa đżđŠ.
How could they not see the highrises and notice they werenât climbing properly? I donât even think they were looking out the windows. If their excuse was â the computer did it â why didnât they go back to the airport instead of flying thousands of miles to Washington DC? This is pilot(s) error and theyâre blatantly covering their assâs by blaming their incompetence on a technology issue. What about ATC? Couldnât they see something was wrong? Wether it be by sight or radar? Youâre right, if they slammed into a skyscraper it couldâve been not only the worst crash this century, but the worst crash of all time.
Interesting the comparison between long haul vs short haul. For several years the close I lived in had 2 BA pilots living in it and we all knew each other fairly well. One was doing mainly UK > various European cities and the other mostly very long haul China, etc. The short haul guy said he'd given up long haul some years back for both family reasons he had kids the other did not and because he got more actual hands on flying with several short flights each time.
Indeed. Many long haul pilots (I was one) struggle to even keep current on 3 takeoffs and landings every 90 days. When the few takeoff and landings have to be shared by 4 pilots, they donât go very far!
Shame they could not rotate sometimes. I know different aircraft are used but if the pilots are current in 2 types they would get the best of both worlds
Outstanding narrating. Very interesting. well done!
With your analysis, you just got a subscriber.
In Europe I know that Tuifly is very very keen to keep their pilot skills up to date. Lots of hand flying.. This is a very sane policy compared to the larger carriers where it is policy to switch of the autopilot at short final.
i'm surprised that there is no warning system for unusually low flying after takeoff / unusually low autopilot altitude settings. if the radar altimeter detects altitude that is let's say less than 3x the wingspan of the aircraft after leaving the airport boundaries it could sound a "CLIMBRATE" or "CLIMB" warning. additionally it could also be triggered if the radio altimeter detects strong fluctoations in altitude such as when flying low over buildings. would be an easy fix to implement
there may have been. refer to the caveat "all the information on this incident is not yet available"
Or a pilot actually does their job, as it has always been and should still be, fly the plane. As in your hands and feet do the controlling and your brain decides what needs to be done.
Instead of following what is essentially a general recipy for a flight.
There must have been multiple alarms going off.
The callout would be âTOO LOW TERRAINâ, assuming EGPWS Mode 4C was triggered.
EGPWS activation should be on the FDR. Since, by continuing the flight, the CVR was overwritten.
I guess it also depends on the current configuration (flap setting and gear)and the attitude of the aircraft (negative,neutral,positive)âŠetc
Wow! keep it up! I like your analyzing skills! I am happy that it was 'just' a close call. if in case, it would had collided with the buildings, it would have been a lot more worse! Thanks, I learned something new today.
Thanks! Iâm glad :)
Would this problem affect the V1,rotate calls? surely if the aircraft was at take off speed and these calls were made then take off should have happened as normal?
Exactly. Hopefully a full investigation will reveal what happened with the v speed callouts.
As somebody with no aviation experience at all can anybody tell me why these pilots didn't manually ascend when they knew they were at a low altitude barely over apartments and tower blocks? This seems quite basic to me. I'm guessing they thought the plane's auto systems were keeping them at a safe height?
Takeoffs are always performed manually. An autopilot cannot take off and is only switched on after reaching certain altitude. The pilots always enter the entire flight plan into the computer before they even start the engines. It would be very weird if they didn't but even if they didn't, it wouldn't affect the takeoff nor the initial part of the flight. It looks more like they tried to take off with retracted flaps, or incorrect thrust set etc.
@@nevim007 incorrect configuration is quite impossible due to warnings, and with the ground speed they had , no flaps takeoff is totally possible in my opinion
@@corentindockx If you look at it that way, any plane crash is quite impossible due to all the safety measures and redundancies but somehow, they still happen. I just wanted to say that I don't buy into the explanation in the video.
@nevim so it's not possible to take off a plane with auto pilot?
@@safaritigress4539 indeed. By the push of a button, the throttle will advance to calculated thrust setting required, but the rotation is made manually by the pilot flying
My understanding is that the MCP altitude WAS set to 4000 for take-off. However preceding crew set the MCP to 0000 after landing while "dressing" the cockpit. (completely non-standard and illogical in my opinion) When flight directors are switched on with MCP set to airfield elevation the pitch FMA engages in ALT and not TOGA. Would be very difficult to pick up as its a green FMA and without specifically looking for it would be hard to detect. Following the flight directors blindly after take-off is another argument all together. Automation dependance I would say which is all too common in modern day cockpits.
This appears to have been the case, yes. See the update at the start of the video description.
The departure altitude is part of the departure briefing and to be checked. Why would it reset to 0 if it was correctly set to 4000? Clearly a f..up by the crew. A mistake that can happen - but not rotating at VR just shows they were not qualified. All given the timeline of the video is correct.
@@thorsteng.8954 "Preceding crew set the MCP to 0000" Most airlines I've heard of have checklista for cold and dark to set the MCP ALT to 10000
Regardless of any previous crew MCP inputs the new crew will perform a complete new setup which includes verifying the HDG and ALT windows in the MCP and once ATC clearance is received this will be done again by setting the takeoff runway heading and the SID altitude, settings that will reflect in BOTH PFDs. How the crew failed to perform these tasks or to see and understand the information displayed is beyond my comprehension and this scares me a lot.
Exactly right. My last employer had an SOP of running the Mode Control Panel Altitude Select to field elevation after glide path intercept on approaches. At 1,000 feet the MCP is reset to the missed approach altitude. If this is forgotten and/or the landing crew "tidies up" the altitude select, this sets up the next crew for this very situation each and every subsequent takeoff.
Well explained! Hope to see detailed report from GCAA.
Really nice to hang out here knowing I have a flight on a 777 taking off from DXB months from now đđŒ
Doesn't matter if your flying visual or instrument, as long as you're using your brain. I'm astonished that those 4 pilots got their jobs there.
As far as I know, the MCP alt is always set before pushback even . Thatâs what I was taught in flight training . Itâs probably a lapse due to not flying as often I guess . Happy landings lads
Thatâs a good point - not setting the MCP alt could also be a result of the pilots being out of practice. Nonetheless, blindly following the FD has to be something bigger.
How could they manage to not pull up after v1, rotate...
This incident is mindboggling
@@murugurthy absolutely agree.
Correct. MCP altitude is usually set to the initial climb altitude assigned or the first limiting altitude on the SID.
Simply leaving four zeros on the altitude window does not give A/P an altitude to acquire after activation. Very disturbing that this sort of thing could occur with 4 crew members onboard.
@@farayidarlingtonchaparadza20 nice mkoma đ
Great content as always! Could you please slow down your narration a bit?
In the video, the lateral and vertical portions on the FMA are blank with the A/T indicating HOLD while the FD indicates on and the INBOARD DSPL selector in EICAS while the onboard display isnât indicating EICAS. Is this accurate as it relates to the incident aircraft? If the FD was on, how are the vertical and lateral FMA regions blank yet the vertical and lateral command bars are visible? Although interesting and perhaps titillating, some inaccuracies in the video raises some questions.
This is freaking worrying me ! Knowing that most pilots rely on automation is wild and makes me not want to become a flight attendant. Also knowing this younger generation and the reliance on tech and most of them not being trained to hand fly is absolutely scary as shit. Iâm supposed be heading to a flight attendant training for a major airline and watching this video is bringing a lot of fear around knowing how pilots are being trained. Help any advice would be helpful. Also, are regional pilots trained to rely on automation then hand piloting?
Thank you for making this video and I just subscribed to your channel and I love anything aviation.
Youâre tripping. Flying on an airplane is exponentially safer than driving a car, stop fear mongering.
Still, the plane computers should be intelligent enough to not to fly at zero altitude. Especially at take off configuration.
They are, the analysis is incorrect at this point
@@spfh84 Analysis is correct if I just listen to what is told. They did not engage AP, they flew manually what the flight director was showing them. Which was a non flight path / rate of climb with 0 altitude setting.
Resulting on a director "bar" stuck at horizon.
@@VYR1985 A real pilot would have flown an a/c attitude regardless of the erratic F/D bars indications. This is the only reason why he is sitting there. A computer operator instead would only do what the computer tells him to do. This is the big difference ... and problem. Today pilot training is designed to form computer operators due to the high commercial pressure.
Do you use MS Flight aim to recreate some of the scene?
Would having the wrong setting on the auto-pilot have affected the V1, Rotate call-outs? I would be surprised if so. Of all the possible consequences of the slavish following of the automation, I'd have thought this one would be rather unlikely. I hope we get a proper investigation with published report, despite where this occurred.
Totally agree. It seems odd to me that pilots would have been looking to the FD for reference during takeoff, rather than being promoted by the call outs. Something doesnât really add up, but hopefully the full details will become clear soon.
What commercial pilot would wait until 200 kt s to rotate, ridiculous, even if the V speeds were missing or even not called out! WTF
I have been wondering the same thing
There are several B777 takeoff videos on CZcams.
In all of these, there's an automated V1 call, but the "rotate" call is made by the Pilot Monitoring.
Since they decided to continue the flight there is no CVR for this takeoff.
V1 is automated. Rotate is called by the pm.. but the speed bug is there..
I hope Emirates and other airlines that are very dependent on automation take note of this serious incident. I have flown Emirates a number of times but all the fancy interiors and great food and service take a back seat to safety. I hope Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum and Mr Tim Clark
have these issues on top place of their agendas!
The Sheikh does not give a flying fornication about the lives of the sheep. đ
So thats why they have a nearly clean record after flying over 36 years.
@@shrm1238 huh? Didn''t they just crash a triple 7 about 5 yrs ago during a blotched go-around?
You couldn't be further from the truth; if this happened on an airline in the US, you wouldn't be anywhere near as shocked. The mere fact that everyone here is scared about the safety at Emirates just goes to show that they are safer than other airlines where this sort of thing wouldn't raise an eyebrow. Plus, safety not being a priority on Emirates? What about the extensive technical support they've got from the engine manufacturers for their engines?
@@buckmurdock2500 no one on board died..and it wasnt even anyones fault..go watch the mentour pilots video on it..
When you get your clearance you automatically input the initial cleared to altitude in the altitude window since most times you turn on AP just after takeoff, and if you hand fly it, it's a convenient reminder where you need to level off if you haven't been cleared before reaching it. This was as dumb a mistake as I have seen. And why in the hell would they continue flying so low if they are carrying 100 extra knots of speed. They could easily put the nose up to 20-25* and climbed out quickly and bled off some of that excess speed because there may be speed restrictions that low. And with 4 pilots looking on, I would love to hear what was being said in the cockpit. Where they quiet like nothing is abnormal happening or is somebody speaking up/asking as to what is happening?
ATC is there as well to warn you if needed. Let's just wait for the report to have a better understanding and don't be judgemental
yes they should be flying at least to 1000 feet before using the autopilot and they should set the altitude clearance given by atc before taking off look it a fake story to me
Forget autopilot and Alt settings, none of the four pilots even SAW that they were flying over rooftops in a brightly lit city like Dubai ? Even a bus driver at the controls would have instinctively pulled up while observing the scene out of the cockpit window. Incredible ! With regard to the US I think it boils down ultimately to the rich legacy of aviation in that country. Almost all the major airlines there have begun with piston motor DC3s, and there is a deeply ingrained philosophy of man over machine, which still pervades even in this so-called high-tech era.
I totally agree
"Even a bus driver at the controls would have instinctively pulled up"
Exactly. Which is why I believe that there is a lot more to this incident than what we know so far.
Only a full investigation will tell us if the answer is really as simple as "pilot incompetence".
maybe they thought something was wrong and were worried about stalling if pulling up.
@@noiserrr I tend to agree...
For some odd reason, they flew the departure at quite a nose-down position with a very low angle of departure... Now - my question:
During the take-off run, usually once VR is reached (or within 200km/h after VR), the plane becomes "unstable" on the runway...as if the nose is being pushed up from the ground, due to the lift being generated under the wings.
These pilots were speeding along at about 2x VR Speed, without the plane giving indication of "wanting to leave the ground" due to lift being created...or let me rather say, the lack thereof.
The only thing I can think of, which might be responsible for something like this...weight.
I won't be surprised (at the end) if an overweight take-off might be partially responsible.
@@deonellis8577 yeah that would make sense. either overweight or cg limits way off. because like you say, the fact that the plane made no indication of lift at that speed on the runway is quite odd.
4:01 I believe if the FD is turned on (normally during cockpit preparation) with the MCP altitude set to field elevation, the AFDS would remain in altitude hold mode even after the altitude is changed on the MCP after receiving clearance.
Yes. From friends in the 777 thatâs my understanding.
Yes, this possibility has been mentioned by others here. Will update the vid description to include this.
If this was the case pushing TOGA switch would not result in TO power
Can this not be check-listed to correct state? If it is a well known issue the immediate mitigation has to be a check-list item.
@@tonyshield5368 on most types itâs checked in the briefing and the pre-departure instrument check.
Nothing to add previous comments... I have flown 777âs for many years, but this??? No CRM what so ever. Automation dependance and a Total lack of SA.
I only have a PPL and 100 hours of experience but I know that you pull at Vr and push when the plane stalls. I have learned at the first cours. If you are not blind you should see bright buildings at less than 100 feet below you. This situation hurts me as "pilot" and passenger. Excellent video and analysis.
Our SOP's says to insert the initial dep altitude after receiving the departure clearance and of course to talk about it and make sure it's set during the departure briefing, that's a clear breach in the SOP unless they've got something different, also, during the take off phase, are we not supposed to scan "inside- outside " until rotation?!
I have no idea about flying the planes but doesn't there normally include some kind of altitude transition to be set for the autopilot?
Very interesting analysis.
Was wondering:what is the point of setting a zero altitude for a flight? It s a pretty useless but very dangerous option proposed by the plane manufacturer?.
I believe that 0 is the minimum altitude that can be set. Allowing altitudes that low is useful when flying to very low altitude airports, sometimes even below sea level. In this case, the plane may be flying at these very low altitudes. In fact, some approaches may even require setting a altitude somewhere between 0 and 500. Even if the minimum were raised to 1000 for example, this situation could still occur when the altitude is set at a level below the airport (such as an airport at 2000 ft), as is the case in most airports (most airports are hundreds or thousands of feet above sea level). Changing the capabilities of the altitude dial is not the solution to controlled flight into terrain, as terrain (tall mountains for example) may occur at very high altitudes. The logic of the autopilot and flight directors might need to be changed, or some other solution could be implemented.
The point would be to alert the pilots that the altitude hasnât been set. The default is 10000 if the jet is powered down and on. Personally I just left it on the missed approach altitude and walked away.
Hi guys. Thanks for you comments. I read it. But i still find it awkward. I guess there r multiple pros. For example, it might prevent stalling. Yet, i find it disturbing. To prevent you from hauling at the very beginning is a bit nonsensical.
@@arnaud.lancelot I don't know the logic behind setting zero other than cleaning up the altitude window? The whole incident seems strange to me. I never use the flight director for my rotation and setting my pitch. I apply back pressure until the nose raises and then holds the pressure. I cross-check the speed and wait till the tread arrow stops. I'm aiming for V2 to V2 +10. I don't follow the flight director until the speed bug has reset off V2 to the speed I'm currently flying.
this is actually insane
As a novice, I wonder how such a basic error as forgetting to reset the altitude in autopilot can become so dangerous. I have learnt that aircraft safety systems are always redundant. Can't an elementary level electronic switch disable the autopilot totally once the plane touches down?
The pilots were probably tired. The industry needs to look at minimum rest time.
Does the takeoff checklist require the autopilot altitude setting be changed to something other than 0?
Some tried this in a 777 full motion sim a few days ago with altitude in the MCP set to 0000 to see if we could recreate it.
On the take off roll the FMAs read THR TOGA TOGA as usual.
We rotated to 14 degrees. The flight director was giving appropriate pitch demand during rotation and until just after lift off.
FMAs changed to THR LNAV ALT just after it got airborne.
The autopilot was engaged at 100' AGL, Normally it would be at 200 feet minimum but we were interested to see if automatics would make it worse.
With ALT engaged we would have expected the flight director demands to give a descent and take the plane down towards 0000. However it didn't.
After Alt capture It lowered the nose to about 5 degrees pitch up. This resulted in rapid acceleration and approached flap limiting speeds. However the flaps retracted just in time so THR remained constant.
During acceleration to flap up speed the plane climbed at about 300 feet per minute and reached 1100 feet and stayed there and did not descend or climb. It just stayed at 1100 feet in Alt Capture despite the 0000 in the MCP window.
So interesting and slightly different to what I would have expected. This was done at max landing weight so would have been much lighter than the EK experience.
Very interesting. From your experience, do you think the climb would have been slower, and the initial altitude lower, if the plane had been closer to MTOW?
Required 2nd segment climb gradient is 2.4%, it can't be lesser than that at Max performance weight with one engine inop for a twin engine aircraft. Min acceleration altitude is 400' above aerodrome. Climb reduces but never zero to accelerate and cleanup. There appears exorbitant lift-off speeds. Improve climb take-offs are higher speeds than field length limits; yet lesser than tyre rotation speeds.
Ought to be something else on this.
from your experience, why do you think the pilot flying did not rotate at VR?
@@amoskasera7642 Yes, seems like the case.
Totally agree. In my companyâs 777 fleet, the pitch mode has always locked to âTOGAâ pitch despite the MCP ALT is set to 00000 before/after FD switches are ON. I think only EKâs 777 fleet have outdated AFDS system.
Great report and analysis.
Now, to make sure my Comm Device is set to never make a reservation or accept a crossover flight prior to final destination, on this carrier. The obvious lack of mental capabilities of the flight operators, (not about to reward with the title of Pilot) is most unsettling and increases the desire of Self Preservation, ensuring more professionally piloted carriers are utilized.
As an A320 FO i usually do 2 full manual and A/Trhrust off full approaches in a month at least, to keep my scanning and skills sharp, i always suggest it if the weather is good and the cockpit load is light.
Does the Boeing FD actually command a pitch up attitude at Vr? Regardless of MCP altitude?
I live in Deira and sometimes fear that the Airplanes taking off near us could potentially fail, and its very crowded here, this video shows it's highly possible that it could happen
Just move out! Emirates is not safe to fly anymore
@@Chainbreak2023 why
Not sure what the CVR recording time on the EK 777 is - if the standard 2 hours then it would be overwritten. There are Regulation changes proposing revising this to 25 hours (from 2024 for new aircraft under FAA jurisdiction - Europe had a date of 2021 but not sure if there is a retrofit requirement). Would be valuable in this event although the round trip time might have overwritten.
Perhaps this is why they continued on to WashingtonâŠ
@@GreenDotAviation Certainly hope not! That would just compound the issue; they may have been unaware of any damage to the aircraft so decided to proceed but interesting to find out if they raised a safety report at the destination.
@@GreenDotAviation another wild guess I would say, SOP requires PIC (Pilot in Command) to protect CVR data from erasing
Its unusual to me, in this day and age, that they cant implement tech into these aircraft capable of stacking 15-20 hrs worth of recording. Hell, a relatively inexpensive thumb drive for a laptop could easily handle several times that with high bitrate sampling. I can almost guarantee that crew decided to fly their route instead of returning to the airport precisely for that reason. Its happened before, and on flights where the aircraft had sustained actual damage
@@GreenDotAviation Was thinking the same thing
Yes this is a big problem even in the states. For example Colgan Air in 2009 where the crew pulled the controls up & aggravated a stall condition plus retracted their ice over flaps. Stall & spun. It's getting serious out here
Colgan wasnât caused by automation though. It was severe pilot fatigue.
@@celderian their reliance on automation is what I believe kept them from making the right choices in the moment. Rest was a factor as well
Good video and analysis
It would be helpful if you could revisit this incident in a month from now, I would be interested to see if anything official transpired. Before something catastrophic happens.
Bloody hell, this really is terrifying. Those of us who trust airline pilots who - let's face it, if we die they probably die too - hope they have the knowledge and skill to over-ride a faulty computer.
oh wow when you said "pilots become more of manager of systems rather a pilot flying machines..." scared me a bit.
I have heard on another video that you are only supposed to follow the flight directors after takeoff after making sure you're properly airborne. Now this would make it a very bad mistake if an experienced crew didn't know that.
Anyone can be trained to push buttons . Real pilots should be able to actually fly the plane .
The only time I experienced a departure where the pilot drove the plane down the runway well past the normal rotation speed was flying out of Karachi heading to Mumbai on I believe indian airlines flight. That set the tone for the rest of the flight. The approach route into Mumbai was the worst piloting I have ever experienced. There was no reason for the plane to have been flown like the pilot wanted to simulate a roller coaster. The landing was the harshest I ever experienced for a daylight calm air arrival. It was worse than a mid-west commuter prop flight landing at night in a thunderstorm
trust me were fine here
The visuals really helped clarify the incident particularly the 0 Altitude setting.
What happened to âinstrument checkâ during take off briefing? Or altitude setting during ATC clearance by delivery or take off clearance? Sigh