This Echo Misinformation Drama is INSANE! | Wuthering Waves
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- Wuthering Waves PVP has started already, I guess. Gacha Smack is right though. lol
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@GachaSmack07's video: • Why 44111 Is Better Th...
@imtenten1010's video: • 44111 is a massive sca...
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TenTen in one of his previous videos when was talking about pulling Jiyan's weapon is not worth for Calcharo, because the dmg% on weapon is not multiplicative, which leads to lower value of this weapon, which is based on his 'feeling' that the damage did not increase too much in CBT2.
I checked the recent damage formula, and almost everything that increases damage is multiplicative with other modifiers. So TenTen is the one who spreads misinformation, and never apologized for it or corrected himself.
IDK, he is using pretty dirty tricks to become visible in the community, IMO
in short you dont need a fomula to explain how getting 44% critrate with two 4 cost is alot easier than rolling critrate on every specific echo to reach the minimum of 70% crit rate with only one 4 cost with critrate also if you have 44% mainstat critrate only tree of the echoes needs to have critrate rolls to hit 60% with bareminimum roll at 6.1% each
@@Satchiidesu yes, but with formula you can estimate and compare the outcome of your time investment.
UPD: 'Jyo's Spiral Abyss Guides' channel has video 'How Much Time Should You Spend on Artifact Farming? | Genshin Impact'
where he explains that in 2 weeks you can get ~90-95% of artifact potential for the character
@@vladys001 the low point it 49% critrate and 150% crit damage with two cc 4 cost and 100% crit rate and about 249% crit damage with my highest roll that i have on one of my echoes of 19.8% if you roll 10.5% cc and 19.8% cd or you could go with the max of 52.5% cc and 333% ish and time spent getting a decent number would be lower for the bare minimum to hit those base critical hits even if you never got any crit substats
Has anyone EVER thought that kuro did this on PURPOSE to help us to get by clearing stuff until we get the perfect set we want for these characters? Clearly they knew how hard it would be to get the elemental main stat elites lol
And they made it so anyway…?
I don't remember where I had heard this exactly. It was a small indie vtuber girl that I think said the difference between a 44111 build and a 43311 build, when they are all fully leveled, is around 2% difference for the most part. Build how you want to build! Wuthering waves actually lets you do that. The combat is good enough that you can make up with good rotations and timing, 100%-ing your characters and team comps is not totally needed. Unlike a few other notable gacha games.
It's more between 8-14% as confirmed already
Ngl, that sounds like Maygi, the little pink angel Vtuber.
@@doubled99218 Very true, but if in the case where you get the relavent dmg% types in substats (such as Res. Skill Dmg% on Jinhsi) on all 5 of your pieces, the difference DOES become very minimal, like within 5% difference iirc
It should be noted though, that if the character running 44111 has their dmg spread across their entire kit, 43311 would definitely be better
whats the saying? "if it clears... it clears!"
great breakdown of the two different perspectives. GS is definitely on point about he ease in which to hunt for the desired stat line. If you got all the money and time in the world you can chase that line via substats but as anyone who has played Genshin or any other similar game over the years knows that chasing perfect substats is a long arduous road. Great Job Hex looking forward to more of your content.
The true advantage of getting a 44111 build is that if you do ever get that 43311 echos you want, you now have a Spare good 4 for another character of that same element type. Time saved > Meta
ever? i mean yeah it can be time consuming but lets not make it any worse than it is. You'll absolutely get 3 cost echoes with the correct elemental dmg/set combo naturally as you play the game. Will you get enough of them to junk them when they roll the wrong substats? probably not for awhile, but noone said anything about building the absolute best substats in this discussion. That's a min/max situation. Getting 3 cost echoes with the correct elemental dmg & set is absolutely not a min/max thing. Its harder than getting the 4's naturally but its really not that difficult to get as some people make it out.
@Hreimdal yea, but it could potentially be months before you do. I farmed all the 3 star wolf echos today... I gained 3 gold echos I'm total off all of them on the tracker. My luck was trash. But that is why going double 4's is better early. RNG still sucks, but you can kill and obtain far more in any given day than the 3's for a specific monster.
Now if you can already do the tower with max stars, 3's are the way to go due to long term viability. But we're talking about F2P game not even out for 2 weeks. If you want that early power boost 4-4 is the way while you look for 3's.
@@mercutiodrakmord5291 Not months. Takes a few days at most to get a set of 3 cost on the correct elemental dmg/set sure if you want to min/max it and fodder if it rolls poorly then yeah it could indeed take months. But yes getting them doesn't take that long. I mean in comparison to the 4 costs it is long but relatively.
@@Hreimdal 1010 was talking about Min/Max. Why would you settle for subpar? I am talking potentially months to get the 3 star that has the main stat you want AND tuning and hitting substats you want. Unless you are also Echo farming your friends world this will take ages unless you are RNG blessed.
That's why I am pro 4-4-1-1-1. No limit to boss echo's per day which allows you the chance to get a much better 4 than a 3. All I am saying is that doing 4-4-1-1-1 is better EARLY game because it takes a lot less time investment while you can replace it later with a 3. 4-3-3-1-1 is still the "better" min/max end goal.
@@mercutiodrakmord5291 Well yes it will take a very long time to min/max, but that's no different from other similar systems in other games. I think the main point here was that you don't actually need to min/max in order for 4-3-3-1-1 to be better than 4-4-1-1-1 ofc we all "eventually" want to min/max our echo setups. But until we get that luck. You can ofc use the 4-4-1-1-1 setup if you so choose until then, but if a 4-3-3-1-1 setup is going to perform better even without having min/max substats done on it, then why bother.
I have to say both 44111 and 43311 have merit in terms of viability, I will however also say of the 3 sets mentioned by GachaSmack that can be used as 44111, I would not actively suggest Moonlit Clouds to be done this way as usually the characters that use Moonlit Clouds are of field or support and require energy Regen which 4 cost Echos do not provide, but other than that I see the point made by Gachasmack especially for Void Thunder and Sun-Sinking Eclipse and believe it is an efficient way to build up your main DPS if they are Havoc/Thunder oriented.
if you run into energy issue on your cloud users i think it's a skill issue
@@yoimiyasimping1054 it actually depends on how you wis to play to be able to make sure for instance Jiyan has Verina's buff you need to increase the energy regen on mortefi to cast his ult almost immediately after switching to him so you can switch to Jiyan as soon as possible so that he as main dps can use both verina and Mortefi buff so not skill issue just a means to make sure your damage output is optimal otherwise if you do not have energy regen and I have tried this Verina's buff will be gone by the time for instance I can cast Mortefi buff.
I play this game maximum like 2 hrs and cant afford farming for 3 cost. The 44111 works for me for now.
Crazy that there are people trying to argue, “casual players would prefer to run around the map to get the 43311”
Casual players aren’t doing /shit/ that requires this much math.
As a casual player
I'm fcking lazy to farm 😂
Oh h nah i was trying to get 3 cost echoes, and i was painful😂 i prefer farming 4 cost they are easier to farm
44111 is even worse for F2P, because the most needed yet most scare resource in the game is echo EXP. F2P players won't have the cash funded waveplate income to be able to afford wasting echo EXP and re-build all their gold echoes down the road. Crit based builds only get really good value when you're looking to start min-maxing an already fleshed out build. 433111 is way more efficient because you just need to match elemental damage main stat on the two 3 costs. You can roll crap subs, it doesn't matter. Just take them to lvl 20 and you already get way more value with zero inconsistencies.
You don't have to upgrade your echoes early game
@@mstrikerwildrift Yes, but then by that logic 44111 vs 43111 would also be a moot point. Because you're basically saying that you don't need stats early game. Then it shouldn't even matter what you equip at all. The issue of echo load out is fundamentally a question of investment.
@@sillysmy nice strawman. Not leveling up isn't the same as not using stats.
The reason why some people would like to use the 441111 since it's "easier" to get. It is a quick way to get some stats into you characters without having to invest too much time into grinding echoes. Like a quick fix until you have the time to actually grind for your build.
Once you hit UL 40 then you should start grinding for better echoes and actually trying to level them up.
@@mstrikerwildrift I'm not sure how you think that constitutes a strawman fallacy. Are you not even able to make the logical connection? The reason why you even equip echoes at all is to gain stats. Not leveling up echoes barely gives you any stats at all. You look like you're here trying to win some CZcams reply battle without exercising actual logic.
So what, are you suggesting to go around with unleveled echoes? That's 4.4% crit, 8.8% crit damage, and no substats from a 44111 set. Which basically doesn't do anything. At that point, you may as well just slap on 11111 or any random mix of echoes to complete a set, as it doesn't really matter. The whole reason whey this topic is under contention at all is precisely because it's a matter of investment. Everyone uses placeholder echoes early on, including lots of blues and purples, but no one's really investing into them. That's not what is being debated.
You there on strawman island talking about unleveled echoes. Please don't try to cite logical fallacies when you can't even exercise basic logic.
@@sillysmy you typed all that and yet you still can't even understand basic logic. You don't level up echoes until you reach UL 40. What's so hard to understand about that? Do you need a chart with pictures or something?
You claim that that's not the point being argued but you can ask the 44111 users and they will tell you that it is relatively suboptimal and are just using it for early game. The base stats from the echoes are more than enough to get you to UL 40 and to argue otherwise would only show that you do not know what you are saying.
But alas, you keep missing the point and keep arguing against a strawman of your own making. Maybe you'll get it someday kid. Keep at it.
SmackDaddy's point went over 1010's head so hard that it caused him to lose all his hairlines. LUL
Brruhhh
But it didn't. 1010 isnt native English speaker so he didnt speak perfectly clearly. 1010's point is that EVEN WITHOUT the 5pc set bonus AT ALL, 43311 STILL performs better than 44111. So unless you literally haven't gotten two correct element rank3s ON ANY SET, 53311 is still better.
So, then it comes down to which is more efficient? Running just bosses and tiny enemies all day? Or intermingling that with running *any* elites (not just herons/flautists/whatever)? I'd say it depends on the character.
The gap between these sets shrinks if the character has a lot of inherents or passives that give dmg%. Like Havoc Rover, for instance, has 12% Havoc Dmg inherently, and gets another 20% in Dark Surge. So for him, yeah I might could see an argument being made for 44111.
But for most characters the gap is so wide that 53311 with no 5pc bonus is better than 44111 with full 5pc bonus. And on those, I don't know if I'd commit to spending hours on something I know to be suboptimal. But that's just me ig.
@@benjamink2398 1010's own graph shows that 44111 5set (black) does better than 43311 no set (orange) and is not that behind to just the same with 43311 2pc/2pc (blue). Where did you get that 43311 no set does better than 44111 5pc? Also, a 15% damage diff isn't something a significant portion of the community would spend probably over 10x more effort than to just settle with a suboptimal build, while SLOWLY building towards the optimal 43311 if they have the energy and time to spend
@@longgalans I said no 5pc bonus lmao. If you would have had 44111 5pc, you automatically have 2pc even if you swap in two entirely off-set 3stars. And 53311 2pc outdoes 44111 5pc, unless you can guarantee *very* high uptime on the 5pc bonus which you usually can't.
And *again* with the 10x time investment talking point. I don't think it is. Again, we're comparing farming *two bosses for two alternate crit main stats* versus *a single boss for a single crit mainstat* and *literally any two elites on any set with just the right element* . I'm not so sure the former is easier.
@@benjamink2398 i recommend you watching Maygi video about this she show a graph about this the result is not that much different.
Because of how hard to farm 3 cost echoes
I just try to get 3 cost echoes in the tacet field
I actually get most of my 3 cost echoes in the tacet fields than me roaming around then getting the worst stats ever.
So my strategy is to use 44111, level my cost 1 to level 20. Why 20? Because 21-25 needs a lot of exp and if i get a good 3 cost echo, I'll use the 1 cost echo that has a bad substat and feed it to the 3 cost exho. Also tacet fields need 60 waveplates and it gives so little echo exp, so every exp counts.
This video is such a hard watch. From the first moment she has been blinded by her ignorance and predisposition. TenTen explained it perfectly fine, why 43311 is better not just when you are min-maxing, but when you are trying to save time and resources as well, but all these react videos are just people being ignorant and outing themselves for not listening or understanding what he is saying, it's wild.
He overcomplicated his explanation, that is his own fault. It took me watching his explanation 4 times in order to understand. Stop getting into the BS calculus and min max spreadsheet and simplify it. That's where Smack did it better than Tenten.
Initially I believed Tenten was simply ignoring the issue of efficiency and tackling this argument from a damage perspective only. It was just recently that I finally understood what he was trying to convey, and it wasnt because he stated it.
@@JahazielArias That is a fair point for sure, people forget about how what they are competent at is not trivial for others. I agree with you, he should have made his explanation simpler, he also didn't have a clear script to follow, which made it more confusing for people who didn't understand his explanation the first time. But that doesn't change the fact that Hex didn't listen to him at all
His second video was way better at explaining it in a simple way, but he made a mistake there as well where he didn't use the Havoc / electro sets. The math checks out with those too and he could have proven that 43311 is better against those sets too, but he missed that opportunity sadly (maybe he didn't have the pieces or wanted to show that he can leave off 1 piece and still compete, not sure)
@@mythsardan Well I think Hex just did not understand his actual point since he failed to make it come across clearly.
What I'm doing instead of taking information from content creators and just following it blindly is doing my own testing. Running my DPS with 44111 5 piece sets, with 43311 2 piece sets and seeing which of those 2 provides me the better dps. Because yes if we can ignore the set for the 3 cost and only focus on making sure its the right main stat element, then that reduces the annoying grind of trying to match the set with the right main stat element as well.
@@JahazielArias You cannot say that she didn't understand his points, when she paused the video 16 seconds in to correct what TenTen was saying. She just didn't care, it is what it is. She had her opinion formed before she watched the video.
I have tried to use my own 44111 5 set vs a 43311 2 set, it feels roughly the same to me, but I haven't had enough time to practice the fights perfectly to have a close enough comparison. Also my 4 costs did end up being disgustingly good, both with double crit rolls, while my 3 stars are just average. It did take a lot more time to farm those 4 costs than it took to just level up a random 3 cost with the right element.
@@mythsardan Well the reason I said what I said about Hex was because I was her when I first watched the video. I will admit I am biased because I like Gacha Smack as a CC, and I felt that Tenten's video was your typical sub-tweet level BS so I came into the video with a rather closed mind, that changed after watching it a few times.
Also, I am currently on the same boat as you with the echo setup test. My 43311 2 piece actually feels kind of worse but like yourself my 4 cost also rolled disgustingly well with double crit substats, attack % and res liberation dmg so its to be expected
I had both 44111 and 43311 havoc sets as f2p with 3 days of echo building total across both. While 44111 had way better crit value, 43311 with havoc/atk cleared tower stages faster.
Hex you do this a lot where you decide that you disagree or agree with a video before you watch it and then you make assumptions about what they are saying instead of actually listening to what they are saying.
Tenten is saying that using two 3 cost elem echos that are offset with no substats is better than 44111. Most casual people will probably have two elem echos of most elements that are offset.
Gachasmack is using the 44111 because he didn't get crit stats on his substat rolls for his onset three costs, which everyone got two malleable 3 cost echos from the Illusive realm.
Gachasmacks video is about farming the crit and crit dmg 4 cost echos for good substat rolls, he says this in the video. There would be no point in talking about it if he was just talking about getting two 4 costs, one with crit and the other with crit dmg because this would only take an hour or two and then you would be back to farming for 3 cost echos since thats the only thing do right now. This is more wasteful of resources than just using the first two offset elem echos you get for each element regardless of substats.
Also the only thing to do in the game right now is to do your dallies and farm echos, so I don't see the point in this whole conversation.
xcept farming the 4cost echo's use 0 resources. You do not need to 'claim' the boss rewards to drop the echo, thus you use absolutely nothing but the 20-30seconds it takes to kill the boss.
I have a question, will you, in good conscient, telling free to play players, who have limited time and resource, to invest in a 43311 off set, in order to get a 10% damage increase, knowing that their investment will be wasted in the future when they finaly get their full set? when they can simply invest in the 44111, and can reuse every single piece for another character after they get their full set?
You have a good point.
but as f2p, I'll stick with my 44111, thanks.
If you look at tenten graphs, 44111 5 set perform way better than 43311 no set. 43311 only becomes better than 44111 if you have 2/2 set on. I dont know why tenten argued against his own graphs, when it shows that building elemental dmg bonus off set is worse if you dont have the right set.
@@Boredeos me neither. he trying to make a point that 43311 is always better, despite his own graph disagree with him. I think he believed that the f2p players will be ok because of the free echo we were given, but that is not enough. you have 3 character in a team. and what about the other team? you need at least 2 team for the tower. and what about players who want to gear up their other character? farming for 43311 foer everyone is crazy time consuming. just not realistic. when people too focuse on the math and the theory crafting, they forgot about reality sometime
This is super easy to understand. I really don't get why there's so much drama about it.
4,3,3,1,1 all on set is the best by a huge margin.
4,3,3,1,1, with the 3 cost elemental damage echoes from other sets does the next highest damage.
4,4,1,1,1 all on set is third best.
Obviously everyone wants to get everything on set, but that involves a ton of luck getting the elemental damage bonus matching the set bonus.
But... while you're farming for those, you also end up with a ton of elemental damage bonuses for other sets.
So it's actually easier to farm a couple of off-set pieces than it is to keep farming for 2x crit 4 cost echoes.
When you eventually do farm the right elemental damage bonuses for the right sets, just swap them in for the off-set echoes.
Oh, and farming for 3 cost echoes is just as easy for F2P as it is for whales. Look up the mobs that drop the right pieces in the databank. Click to search for them on the map... go farm a bunch of them. Rinse and Repeat.
TLDR: Farming for 4,3,3,1,1 is more efficient and always gives you better damage. Just use off-set pieces until you farm up your full set.
Crit has a cap, and food buffs will do if you aren't lucky with echo drops. If we are talking about saving time. Farming 4 cost echos you have a one minute respawn timer. So just play the game however you enjoy it.
Rule of playing game : have fun.
THIS
True but what smack is basically trying to teach is, how to help those f2p players that doesn't have time to really grind, because life. Personally, as much as how good 1010's reco is, I don't have time follow that.
@@Kraugelll yup, and i use 44111 because i only have 3-4 hours to playing games everyday lol.
Apparently some people can't enjoy games unless they approach it like a professional job.
All Smack was trying to say 44111 is easier to farm, and once you're able to get the right pieces for 43311. You then switch to 43311. It sure did go right over tentens head.
the difference is between 5-15%. which is maybe 3-4 rolls
however something that no one mentions that the moment you get one decent elemental piece on any set then 4/3/3/1/1 becomes simply better in any scenario.
Except Smack is wrong. You can't tell me you don't have ONE 3-cost piece of your character's element of ANY set. And one ele.dmg is probably better than two 4-costs.
And second, switching from 44111 to 43311 means you wasted ressources on pieces that are now obsolete: that's a stupid thing to do at this stage of the game because of scarcity.
@@billmurray7676 i mean you dont need to upgrade it higher than to 10 early game, so scarcity doesnt matter much on early pieces if you dont go past lvl 10 on the echo
@@xlightninghawk6360 If you don't go higher than 10, then you might as well use 3-cost purples with ele.dmg.
People are rushing gold pieces and substats way too fast anyway.
@@billmurray7676 i mean you use whatever gives you dmg increase, but ppl be burning resources way too early and then have nothing for later on, so its not worth upgrading higher than 10 early unless its all great stats you need
overall efficiency that ive roughly calculated on farming 44111 than 43311 over a long period of time (around a year or two) , this will result in effeciency achieved by an account of:
44111 = 6.22/10
43311 = 5.6/10
With 44111 achieving roughly 10-20% more gain in efficiency, DESPITE if down the road u want to upgrade to 43311 for better damage since theory crafting speaking it is the better combination.
But since the current gain from cutting the massive lost of 44111 farm resource and time efficiency gain is very significant in the early game, later down the line it actually somewhat impact the overall efficiency aswell. As ive clarified earlier, DESPITE if down the line u want to change to 43311 which ive been listening to some theory crafter saying that this is a massive issue, but they couldn't be more wrong.
Tldr;
As a both casual WuWa player and math lover i have conclude that going 44111 isnt a waste of time rather everyone should be doing it if u love ur time and wanna do other productive things with it
19:43 nah, you're correctt here, Violet-Feathered Heron first line of description on the Echo Hunting list is "This enemy has higher RES to Electro damage."
I am F2P, from what I can tell is that 44111 and 43311 is just at the end of the day a "which is more time efficient" 44111, will always be time efficient just cause 4 cost farming is easier than 3 cost farming. getting that main stat you want is worse on 3 cost compared to 1 cost and 4 cost.
resource efficient for either of them just wont exist i will be honest its basically the same since both will effectively just drain you of resources since its just rng for sub stats you want. its a horrible waste though when you switch from 44111>43311 or vice versa though since you just throw out 2 echos and best case is you put those on a different character instead of scraping them.
for me personally at the end of the day, I use 43311. I switched from 44111>43311 cause i was able to craft both of my 3 cost, but those resources i wasted on the 4/1 cost i switched kind of hurt for sure.
So basically, 43311 is best damage no contest...but, before you get to that you can use 44111 so you can tackle the current content coz its easier to build than RNG unit 3 stats
Exactly. chat is being dumb for repeating that 43311 is better than 44111 when Gacha Smack's vid is about f2p and efficiency at the current state of the game. No one was disputing that 43311 is the best set for all characters, its just that 44111 is easier to get, can last a long time and you can replace them piece by piece as you get better ones over time. I'm f2p and running 43311 with both the desired element bonus on Jiyan but my substats are meh. My Rover and Yinlin are both running 44111 and clearing content fine. Is it the best ? Hell nah but is it clearing content without too much issues ? Hell yes.
Also 43311 is just 15% increase
@@Sinononon casuals get 2 free malleable echos , that is enough . if you want to build more than 1 char at this stage ? you're not a casual , you are just lazy to grind . settling 44111 just bcz you are lazy would mean more resource sink with tuners and exp trying to fish for great subs.
i got 2 accs UL 38/39 , both run 43311 with meh subs . its working out just fine 12/30 15/30 tower both f2p . i dont have everyone built , heck my 38 cleared 12/30 with just havoc set danjin.
@@rokkabrave True. Not all players have the luxury to farm hours for that bs of a roll from Elites. The damage increase isnt even worth it rn if you can clear content with trash substats but reliable damage. Tenten's vid disregarded the whole point of Smack's vid and just went all meta spreadsheet that no one was even disputing. Theorycrafters, man... they really need to get out of their bubble sometimes
Edit: Maygi did a better explanation regarding this by using Encore as an example. The character's multipliers (liberation, skill, etc) also apply in the formula. Its not even 15%, it was 10% with no subtats and 4% with mid roll crit roll & crit dmg
@@richiexandersin2864 yeah so how can Calcharo and Yinlin share that while being on the same team? ahahahahaha
Here’s my take: anything that dances or taunts is more amusing content. Now, don’t question why I don’t make a lot of DPS checks 🤣
44111 is hands down the best way to go for first set of gear, you only need crit rate for the mainstat on the 4 costs and atk% on the 1 costs then level to w,e level you think is fine just on the 4 costs and you'll be good for most of the content and if your lacking you level it up more.
Just getting the 2 crit rate mains on purple echoes will give you so much dmg from being able to make use of the 150 crit dmg you start with. As of now i dont know if you can fuse purple turners into gold tuners so if they cant then that isnt being wasted as soon as you unlock gold echoes you wont give a shit about purple tuners and you only lose 25% exp when you feed them so do you early game 43311 users think 25% exp loss from leveling purple 4 cost crit rate main stat and maybe even the 3 1 costs purple atk% echoes with 5pc set is more of a waste then the amount of time itll take on average to even get the 43311 main stat and set?
IMO 25% lose of exp is well worth the days to get the right mainstat and set for a 43311 loadout to get to the end game faster and then farm for a good/great 43311 set for when more content comes, but from start of the game 44111 is way easier as you just need the crit rate to use the crit dmg and thats all.
Smack's analysis:
44111 is good for casual/midgame.
Easier to farm, and allows for wiggle room in substats.
43311 is "endgame" efficient
Double element boost or ele%/ER% for power boosts to take down tower bosses with heavily curtailed substats.
44111 only works for havoc/thunder right now, 1.1 and Jue (gonna be glacio? Aero?) Will provide an additional 44111 element set
I was actually thinking Jue will be Spectro. Was there a leak on his element?
44111 saves me from spending eight hours a day farming 3-cost elites for a 1/64 chance of rolling the right element in the right set and also the even further RNG of them being a 5-star. 43311 (with a full set) is like a 15% increase over 44111 (full set), with a hundred times the farming effort. I'll happily take my suboptimal build over having a stress-induced heart attack trying to earn the favor of RNGesus.
His point absolutely took into account time efficiency.
Let's say you ran around the world farming elites for, say, three different characters (your main three for your best team). Now let's say you get a correct element bonus on the entirely wrong set, twice. CONGRATS! You have just beat out the 44111.
His point is that 43311 with NO 5PC BONUS (just 2pc) is better than 44111 with FULL 5PC BONUS. So, is it *really* more efficient to try to land *two alternate crit mains* from the two bosses? Or is it more efficient to try to land *one crit main* from *one boss* and then *two correct element% from LITERALLY ANY ELITE ON ANY SET* ? Idk but to me, the latter sounds just as - if not more - easy.
Argument is there is not enough resources to level echoes up and you suggest to level echo that will go 100% to thrash later on.
@@dalkflamemastel4542 And? So will your worse 4* and your worst 1*..... They'll all be fodder at 70% xp back when you get better.... obviously....
I’m just so confused so hard…
@@benjamink2398no they wont cause u can put the extra 4 and 1 on another new char that comes out for example chalcharo--> yinlin...
Also ur just objectively wrong look at tentens graph it literally says 44111 (black) is better than 43311 2peice (blue)... so it literally is better to farm 44111 as it's more time efficient and only loses about 10% dmg overall to full on set 43311
btw all this is before the fact that farming 43311 is 60 times harder than 44111 just to get the right main stats... without taking into account the weight if any for the probability of each stats to roll on main stats...
The way I see it:
44111 is great for starting a character out, before you've started farming for your 43311 set
We're still in the early game, so if you don't have a crit weapon, you could use 44111 to raise your crit rate until you get one.
However, once you have high enough crit, the boost from elemental damage that comes with 43311 would surpass the 44111. But who am I to say~?
The two types of sets are probably close enough in damage that it really doesn't matter in the end unless you're super optimizing.
Lets set this straight, and simplify it.
Gacha Smack is saying go 44111 because its easier to farm, because there are less stats that you can get, making it easier to get the main stat you want.
TenTen, argues 43311 is better almost all the time no matter the situation, as long as you get the element damage bonus you need. This includes even if you DON'T GET the set bonus, which is far easier to get, than the same element on the same set.
Those are the key points here. Don't throw away any element bonus early game, it can and will be useful until you get the same set and element on one. Which you can get from events/and adversity guaranteed.
Go watch TenTens follow up video if you want to see this in action.
"TenTen, argues 43311 is better almost all the time no matter the situation" that is actually proved wrong in his own video by the graph he presented. If you look at the graph, you'll see that 43311 is only noticeably better when you have 5 piece bonus and marginally better when 2 piece 2 piece. All the other configurations are worse.
@@baron7562 It's actually the other way around, doing some napkin spreadsheet math with the damage calculation formula of wuthering waves. 4-3-3-1-1 5 pc bonus' are marginally better vs 4-4-1-1-1 because the DMG% is being brought up from basically what is 10% to 40%. (keep in mind this is only possible on 2 sets Electro and Havoc for 5pc DMG% bonus) around 5-9% difference in damage in favor of 43311.
2pc-2pc makes the difference much greater, because there is only 10% DMG% that you are getting. 10-13% damage difference in favor of 43311.
0pc (Rainbow) Setup makes this much more significant too. Because you're getting 0 DMG% besides from MAYBE your substats. 15%-20% damage difference in favor of 43311.
@@baron7562 why would you even use a mismatch 3 cost? The pain of farming 3 cost echos isnt getting a mainstat to match the set bonus; it's getting a match and then getting good sub-rolls on it. Getting a match by itself isnt the hardest to do if you only have to do it once, and even if you're overly busy to do that, you can just get them from event rewards.
So arguing that 44111 is better than a mismatched 3 cost without set bonus is silly at best.
@@baron7562 People keep saying this comment over and over again. I guess it was said by someone reacting to the video who was clearly clueless and didn't pay attention. TenTen explained that if you are farming 44111 for the 5 set bonus, you will have the 2 set for your 43311 as one of the 4s and one of the 1s can be brought over. Therefore if you think about it, there is no way you would go for 43311 without the 2 set. Which would mean that it is almost always better than 44111.
If someone would make the argument that they don't have it and would need to go and farm your 2 set. That would mean they couldn't use 44111 either, so that's just a stupid argument.
@@TeamTheAces I wasnt commenting on what you should or should not do. I was simply trying to point out the misunderstanding people got from that video even though his own graphs say otherwise
Bruh I been playing hella casually. Literally just hit DB15 yesterday. And within 3-4 HOURS of farming (split between yesterday and today) I have 2 Cr Thundering Mephis, 2 Cd Tempest Mephis, and 2 Crownless 1 Cr 1 Cd. The fact that TenTen couldn’t wrap his head around the point of how QUICKLY u can get a solid build started is what makes this method so good is insane 😂
it is SO MUCH more Efficient in terms of Time spent for Results, to Farm multiple 4 Cost Echos With GARUNTEED progression with Crit Rate/Dmg, compared to Farming 3 Cost Echos with a CHANCE a low chance at that to get the Right Elemental Dmg Bonus with the Right Set Effect, you COULD go an entire DAY with no results which means no Progression. Also if we Were Arguing Strictly Numbers wise, the reason why having 2 of the 3 Cost echos does more dmg is becuase you do 60% more dmg REGARDLESS if you crit where as with Building 2 of the 4 Cost Echos you would need 100% Crit rate in order to have Equal amounts of Comparable Dmg increase from Crit Dmg.
You can just farm whatever you want. But if you don't want to change your echo soon because of substats then 43311 is your best option. Because even if you got the worst substat of 3-cost elite it will still give you at least 30% damage boost which is huge and you can still use it for a long time with no huge difference with the good substats one.
But with the 4-cost overlord if your substats is junk then you're screwed, you need to re-farm it and waste exp echo because 22% crit rate of 150% crit damage means you only got 11% of damage boost.
Moreover you must know 1-cost common only provide 18%atk boost while another 3-cost elite gives another 30% damage boost. To be honest most dps base atk stat only 50% of the total atk stat, so your 18% atk boost actually only equal to 9% damage boost because atk% only calculated based on base atk not total atk while damage% boost is calculated based on your total atk.
So what he said about efficientcy is mostly correct. For early game especially for f2p player you should do that and ignore whatever substats you get. You should search for best substats when all the lv max domain already unlocked and gives you more reward, it's much more efficient. 😇😇😇
43311 is really doable, you got the new event and illusive realm, both of those are rewards sweepable with all trial characters so you can build 2 dps for your 2 teams and then use 44111 for subdps and support, so you can finish adversity and holo, i'm just gonna be real, people are making this game seem to be hard than it should be, this game is a baby compared to when i played games like baldurs gate, dark souls elden ring and stuff, where it took me so much time to actually learn all of the things, exploration, secrets and stuff.
The way Tenten explained it was a simple calculus problem of “non optimizatiion” too lol. All he had to say was with crit you want 1:2 ratio for the echoes to function efficiently, that said I’m not familiar with the final main stat amount so maybe they are lower at max level (essentially 30% crit rate n 60% crit dmg is equal to 30% dmg bonus) but otherwise it really isn’t complicated at all and the way he explained was far too elaborate and one sided lol
The main reason I hate 3 cost Echo farming is that the Elemental type can roll completely different elements as a main stat, which seems just fucking cruel, considering I can’t imagine a single scenario where you’d want 2 element bonuses on ONE character.
Maybe dual elemental characters will become a normal thing in the future, like they kind of are in Punishing Gray Raven with Void/Dark split damage on one of the characters that came out on CN server recently. Whatever the case, it’s fucking annoying getting split damage type echoes when all our characters now are mono element.
In which dimension is getting substats this early on easier than getting the right element for the right set?
Echo experience is hard to get, might as well just spend it on the best set instead of fishing for substats for a worse set.
people forget that Echo Exp is very hard to farm right now to go for 44111 and then swap to 43311 later for every character means a massive loss on an Echo exp and credit. and that is not OK with F2P.
Yes, you can take 44 costs from one character to 2 but that means you either have an extra 4 costs because you have to build every character anyway or your character didn't have completed echo sets.
for example, build 6 characters for Tower if you just waste your time farming for 44111 for most of the characters let said you are lucky so you have 2 characters as 43311(one form farming and one form Illusive realm).
Those 4 characters who have 44111 will end up wasting Excho exp to level up 8 3 costs Echo with like 4 extra 4 costs and 4 extra 1 costs.
which may or may not help the account in the long run because they are F2P. Having an extra Excho set of Excho for a character with elements you already built will be useless for a very long time.
let's not talk about how long it will take them to swap from 44111 to 43311. for F2P they better just fuck the meta or stop playing than recover from that.
I personally feel it is borderline impossible to a 3 with the appropriate primary bonus, not even considering the sub bonuses. I killed every wolf, tambourinist and roseshroom looks for 1 eclipse with havoc damage, I got every damage bonus except havoc. Eclipse only boosts HAvoc, so having an Eclipse with Fusion damage is literally pointless. Inversely, I have like 12 elites from the fusion set with fusion damage, so Chixia, Encore and Morti are fine.
Saw Tectons reaction towards that meta graph for how 433 was better, but he saw the graph tell a different story to where 433 isn't actually better. I'm still early in this game so I don't have max lvl things, but if I have the chance to select something for early game that works till late game. I would go for the 44111.
Bro mentioned that 43311 has better “substats” than 44111 when ALL substats are RANDOM. The only guaranteed stats you get are from main stats that you can see when you get em without the need to level them up. PLUS! Aside from the low chances of getting the right element bonus dmg from the 3cost, getting the right substats will decrease the already low chance of getting the correct main and sub stats needed for the 3cost AND not to mention that you need 2 of em. So not only you need to spend hours and hours of time and hundreds of resources to get the “perfect” 3cost hes talking about, you also need to do it TWICE! and if thats not bad time and resource management then idk what is.
44111 or 43311 doesn't matter if your out of credits! That my problem! I have so much good shIt but no money to level the shIt with!!!!!!!!
Resources don't mean anything, it's the time you want to spend on farming echoes what make the difference. a f2p has the same chances to get elites with the right set and dmg bonus so what matters its the time you have to farm. a whale has more materials to level up echos but that applys the same for 4 3 3 1 1 and 4 4 1 1 1
Difference between ftp and a whale is most ftp are still spending stamina building and prepping characters, grinding 50% world mobs for echo chances. While whales, who have been max refreshing, have been grinding 80% mobs at ul40 and spending stamina on tacet fields to get even better 3cost echo chances.
Tacet fields are the best way to get not only materials, but also on set 3costs. Yeah, both can farm co-op "infinitely" but whales are going to have a much easier time filling out their echos. Eventually we'll all be farming tacet fields and getting an 80% gold drop chance on world mobs, but whales have been there for days now while spending more stamina per day than a ftp. So even if the ftp started tacet fields at the same time, the whale just has way more stamina per day which gives them better chances to get drops.
Don't mean anything? it's literally the thing that is holding me back, I get two levels out of my echo every two days. That is too slow considering all of the characters an echo slots you need to fill.
Who the heck cares about having more echoes? When Yu can't raise them
took me 2 hours getting the right 4 cost echo for yinlin/Calcharo, was way faster farming 3 cost echos
@@bloody4558 those are 2 different things, if you can't raise 3 cost echoes you can't raise 4 echoes as well, and that means that going for 4 3 3 1 1 or 4 4 1 1 1 has nothing to do with resources just the time you'll need to farm echoes
@@bloody4558 It holds you back the same if you are going for 43311 or 44111 so resources don't matter for this specific matter
thanks for showing me this video, i have seen the light
I only farm two 1 cost echoes and one 4 cost echo since those are really easy to farm like what was already said, now If I do get all the nice rolls of crit and crit damage on all of those 3 I can just choose two of the 3 cost echoes with the right main stat from the echo selector we get from the events like Illusive realm and alloy smelt. Now if the substats of those are screwed then so be it, losing 6-12% crit and 12-20% crit damage by not getting a min-max 3 cost echo can easily be cancelled by getting crit rate buff foods and 60% element damage bonus which is way more damage
Considering you need 3 well built teams for Tower after the tutorial section, 4/4/1/1/1 definitely pays for itself faster getting you a couple more of the rewards earlier. Got some pretty good results from the first reset while others were probably still struggling to get their perfect Ele Dmg% builds running on their secondary teams.
while watching this I got a damn nice Dreamless for my rover and I turned into a lil kid with how damn excited I got
Guys if you wanna clear the content, please dont waste your time running 43311.
Getting an onset 3 is so damn hard. You'd have to scour the map daily to get it done.
4s are super easy to get a good mainstat and substats. 1s as well. This CAN make the difference.
Its a cost-time trade off.
As a f2p casual player. Im running 43311. Running 44111 early game. 60% elemental damage is super hard to pass. Tuning echoes 5 at a time that’s how i save my resources. I always stop at the 3rd tuning. So far i have 2 elemental echoes that have double crit stat. Don’t start on those 1 Cost echoes cause it’s easy to find and easy to burn your resources. Im taking it slow. 💪
To be honest, my experience so far with gearing up characters is waaaay better in this game than in HSR. 4-3-3-1-1 on Calcharo, Jiyan and H. Rover. Ans got another spicy 60% CR, 200% Cdmg set on Taoqi. 1 elite on def and the other on havoc damage. And may still roll more cdmg as that's with lv 20 echoes
On some characters you want to run 44111 anyways because they have Dmg% elsewhere in their own character-kit and you easily hit diminishing returns. Jinhsi is such an example - She definitely benefits more from high Crit%/CritDMG numbers (and a full spectro set) rather than more Spectro% because it's already included in her kit.
tl;dr I wouldn't generalize it; both options are BiS on different characters.
Biggest issue currently that not all sets can be completed that way.
I don’t even care about the subject, hex is hilarious. I find myself actually laughing out loud when I watch her content.
"Here is my nice, fuel efficient, car that I'm suggesting to others..."
"A ha, your argument is invalid, look at this jet plane."
if this explanation was simple i wonder what his complex explanation video would look like.
To be fair, the video doesn't reference Gachasmack at all in name, so I think it's a little disingenuous to say hes specifically responding to what he said. Its possible hes responding to seeing others spread around the idea that they are equivalent to one another.
yeah it's been going around since beta even before gachasmack published a video about it.
1. Why not make the video before Smack then?
2. TenTen’s title references Smack’s title.
@hexjuice Ah, I see. I didn't realize TenTen's video title referenced his. Otherwise, I'd say it's possible Gachasmacks video may have just got more people talking about it overall.
@@ianp5367 it's still wrong to call it misinformation. just different opinions.
@@hexjuice It was because at the time there was a lot of misinformation about people that (mistakenly) thought that 4-4-1-1-1 was in fact equal or better which ofc is not the case. I don't think he put out the video in response to Gacha Smacks video, just the timing happened to be that they both came out around the same time. Nothing he said in his video is wrong, and i think he actually did explain why 4-3-3-1-1 is the superior choice in an easy to understand way.
Of course we can all agree that 4-4-1-1-1 is much easier to get right now which yes he didn't really address, but it wasn't the point of his video either. The point of his video was to prove that the information floating around about 4-4-1-1-1 being just as good or even better than 4-3-3-1-1 was in fact wrong.
To be fair, "casual" player will just "auto equip" regardless 44111 or 43311. In fact, you're not a casual player if you watch or search how to build the character.
So, it's pointless to make these argument since those casual player just don't care.
casual players will search for the right builds, they just dont care why those are the right builds and they most certainly do not care about a 15% dmg increase that takes probably over 10x the time and effort to farm
@@longgalans As I said, "casual player" don't search for builds in the first place.
The moment they spend their time looking up these guide, they're no longer casual.
That's the reason why most game don't really care about the voice of their players since these casual are eating up everything and keep pay/playing games.
People look for this Info? Been building 43311 since when I unlocked the bosses for the 4 echoes
@user-lj6jh9pz8o It takes 10 seconds to search for a build my guy. Having a template for builds that you can replicate with other characters without effort is the goal of casuals. This argument is so dumb to be honest, and I don't know why people keep parroting it. Searching for a build template doesn't make you a 15-hours a day sweat.
bro just don't understand and make his own point kekw. It's not like casual don't want to spend their time to search it. They just don't care in general.
Anyway, seems like you have your own definition of "casual" player then I guess I don't have to need to waste my time to explain this anymore.
Why you keep hating on innocent spreadsheets? Also the mathematical tool mainly used in those spreadsheets is analysis, not algebra.. Algebra has never hurt any gacha player!
Let's be honest, the only piece of math that is actually hurting gacha players is probability 😅 (which btw, is also a part of analysis).
Also just realized, did ten just say he was doing the math 1 for 1 and shoved aside the crit damage value you start with? It really feels like he said that in the beginning
what i heard is 44 is better early to get a nice crit value. once u get good crit rolls on echos 433 is just better. im using 44 until i get in my echo grind
Use the best available to you right now and upgrade later when you can afford it.
Just like in real life.
Here's the misinformation: Farming for the 44111 is not easier than farming for 43311, because 43311 is better even if you are running 2pc 2pc, vs 44111 5pc.
And if you're telling me farming for double elemental dmg 3-cost echoes off-set is harder than farming for double 5-star 4-cost echoes with crit main stat, on-set, then I can't help you.
Lol you for real? You can farm bosses infinitely. Just teleport between bosses and farm as much as you want. Meanwhile 3costs only respawn after server reset and you need to run around the map. So ya farming 2 4cost with crit main stats is braindead easy.
@@bigfootisreal_ bosses take longer to kill, and they have to be from the right set, so yeah, it's just equally as hard as farming 2pc 2pc. Mobs are not infinite, but you can farm 3 different sets (ATK, Energy and Corresponding Elemental DMG), each set has 2-3 different elites, they are pretty much enough for your casual daily farming.
Unless you want to farm 6-8 hours a day then sure, 44 is easier.
@@YumiSumire Don't know what you're talking about. If you're leveled up you can easily kill a boss in 20sec. Then teleport to next 3 bosses and cycle back to the first. You don't have to walk an inch and kill 4 bosses in 2min. FYI bosses has an echo pity of 1, so if you don't get an echo drop from the boss then the next boss will drop an echo guaranteed so you get at least 2 echo every 2min. You are basically spawn killing the boss. I have dozens of crit pieces from bosses and they're so easy to farm that I'll just recycle them if more than 1 substat is bad.
On the otherhand 3cost has a pity of 4, so if three 3cost enemies didn't drop an echo then the next one is guaranteed. Running around the map looking for 3cost and have a 4 pity you're left with a terrible probability for getting anything good in the time spent.
And for Havoc dreamless is even easier to farm as you just spam the first stage over and over again.
@@bigfootisreal_ That's true, but, if you're farming 3-cost echoes for 2pc 2pc, you're not just farming for 1 DPS, you are farming for multiple DPSes (ATK and Energy set) and even for your supports (Energy set).
You would also be farming for 1-cost echoes aswell.
Plus, if you build your characters half-decent, they can kill the mobs in 3 seconds.
So, yeah, you are gaining more than just 1 set for 1 (or 2) characters.
@@YumiSumire You're ignoring the probability though. The chances of you getting anything good especially below UL40 is abysmally low. If you spent 1hr farming 4piece like I mentioned you'll get 5-10 crit rate main stats echoes on average. The 3 costs and 1 cost you can barely aim to get the piece you want. You'd be just running around hoping to get something good which imo is inefficient. Better to farm those side by side when you're doing exploration instead rather than when you're building characters. Your main dps is the one that needs stats. The supports can even run even blue or purple wouldn't matter that much.
You all be overthinking about 44111 or 43311, I’m just over here overthinking about whether I should farm Tacet field for echos materials. (Resources are scarce)
Sigh, I have a lvl 70 Havoc rover, 2pc/2pc, 44111, 75/245, doing between 30-40k ULT damage, no food buff. I’m happy, so do whatever makes you happy.
Don’t lose brain cells trying to prove a point in a gacha game.
just for your info, elemental dmg bonus is much more a significant increase of your damage than your crit values. the way he said "this is the early game, we're not gonna get into the nerdy shit" is weird when all he cares about from the beginning is merely a crit values on his chars. 30% elemental dmg boost means your character gain 30% raw dmg boost since this game has no infusion kinda thing, every character atk with their respective element. meanwhile crit on the other hand, you need an actual decent and balanced crit values to actually get a benefit from it. and i think this is not something that people should think too hard about. for example, there's a reason why furina and kazuha are ones of the most broken support in genshin, because both are buffing dmg bonus, not crit.
and i'd rather have 2pc dmg + 2pc atk than 44111 bs
@@neppity5887 but both events are giving out free 2 malleable echoes which you can pick the mainstat. And also, crit isnt all that matters in early game anyway. But i can see your point. The fact that its harder to obtain the cost 3 elemental dmg piece in the right set is very real even for hardcore players. Not even gonna talk about the subs, just purely mainstat. The thing is you can also get the other dmg bonus stats from the cost 3 subs like liberation dmg bonus etc for your said chars, so even if the crit value of it is dogwater, the dmg increase you'll get still very significant compared to the 44111 build as you calculated approximately 15% more dmg
@@neppity5887 and 15% more dmg is not a thing you should sleeping on over some giga crit ratio especially on early game
Damage bonus does not stack linearly, multiple sources of damage bonus exist from substats to other characters. This is why Crit is viable.
If you run the actual math the difference is very marginal.
even with the math of GPA 4.0, the max stats possible in 44111 vs 43311 build, the difference is only 1%.... literally its within margin of error... why are people bothering with this....
if you want an actual spreadsheeter info on this just watch Maygi they have a short video explaining it.
Coming late to the discussion but getting 2 3's with the right element is not a big issue. If you are about early early game then 2 3's with the wrong set are still better than a 4 and a 1 with correct set (ignoring substats altogether).....and i think this is exactly the point of the second guys argument. Why farm 2 4's early and use them when they do less dmg than 3 3's wich are insanely easy to obtain (via rerolling for example - i had a trillion rerolls when i hit that level 20 databank) and you get them along the way anyways while doing tacet farming. You might even get the correct set+element while doing the "normal tacet farming". So the 2nd guy is 100% correct when he says do not use 2 4's thinking its better when they do always less than 2 3's no matter the set bonus. And yes this is early early early early game as soon as you can put in 4/3/3/1/1 just do it and you dont have to do any math you will do always more than 4/4/1/1/1 unless your 2nd 4 and 3rd 1 are godrolls - but if they are just use them on your 2nd character and have fun.
So a lil less text:
- get lv 20 databank - reroll all green/blue/purple that you got from early/later tacet + exploring the world and killing stuff - get many many 3's = no extra time spent farming while still being stronger than a 4/4/1/1/1 no matter the sub stats or set
- farming 4's over and over and waiting their respawn until you get 2 with crit = spent extra time farming = using 4/4/1/1/1 at this point is already a bad choice - there is no "early game farming gold" as you have to level your databank as well to make it even efficient to farm 4's
The point flew over blud's head like a 747. Really gives the impression that he either didn't watch gacha's video or has severe adhd and needs someone to jingle keys at him to keep his attention focused longer than 20 seconds.
4 33 11 mathematically its aways better even if not on set . 60 % damage bonus its better than full set bonus and 22 % cv .on top of that if you have even few decent rolls the charts will be much better. On top of that in Wuwa you have 30% cv food buffs for 30 mins . That you can use with the same 3 pieces from 44111. So you have 60 cv without any crit rolls cmon stop the min max boring theory.. 43311 it will be better in any scenario.
tenten's own graph shows 44111 5pc (black) is better than 43311 no set (orange) and isnt far behind or competes evenly with 43311 2pc/2pc (blue) at certain conditions so where did you get this info?
@@longgalans you can't compare other People graphs mate so your own . The only way 44111 is better than than 43311 if second set have 0 tunes. Because you already have 35 % crit rate from base and food and 22 % from 4 piece . That his whole lie he used 30 % crit rate food. To look like his stats are better than 43311 .
@@BloodyVeel So you're missing the point as well it seems. Smacks video was NOT about 44111 being mathematically better than 44111, it was about time investment vs effort argument.
Your claim that you cant compare other people's graphs? You realize that's just part of providing evidence to back up your claims right? So because Tenten is the one making the argument, he has to provide evidence. 43311 is not always better even if its off set, that is just a blatant lie and you are not providing any evidence to prove otherwise. When you're making these sorts of mathematical claims you never include outside buffs to the numbers, that should be a given.
If we follow Tenten's video who has provided evidence, the no set 43311 is outperformed by the 5 piece 44111 build which is only marginally worse than a 2 piece 43311.
The main issue I'm having with the 44111 build is that... my 4 cost rarely ever roll Crit Rate it's usually Crit Damage. Which is nice but if you have like 300% Crit damage but no Crit rate then... WHAT IS THE POINT?
Like seriously out of all my 4 cost Echoes that I've farmed I have about 11+ Crit Damage and like 3 or 4 Crit Rate the rest are main stats you don't want on a 4 cost
I would prefer 44111 simply because there aren't a lot crit weapon options. Some of said crit weapon options are either on the permanent weapon banner or the battle pass. The 43311 spread sheeters are usually people who go for the BiS kits (Best in Slot weapons and set pieces).
The former says here's a leeway grind, and the latter is saying throw sets out the window and go for the numbers that give you the biggest outcomes in the most intricate and RnG grinding method.
Both are valid in their own right, but one isn't telling the grueling tale of how far they had to go to get the end results. They're just telling everyone that they are just as capable of getting there as them, even though the path is random and the one teaching them is insanely lucky.
I'm not min maxing at all, I just look for a full set and hope for decent stats. The second video happens when you think you are smarter than everyone and don't pay attention to nuance.
Imo 44111 is early build. 43311 is the most optimal but 3 are hard to get. 3 in fall in element dmg, atk, hp, and def. Even if u get the element u wanted you then have to hope to get the substat good. It’s harder to get then 1 and 4 cos 1 is only hp, def, and atk, and 4 is easier to farm
Yeah 3 cost echos take too much time to farm it makes my gf mad for not spending time with her lol cause she can’t enjoy me just sitting next to her I’ve got to be conversing 😢
I'm behind GachaSmack on this one. Tenten approached this argument as if the game has been out for a year and everyone has a crapload of elemental damage echoes to spare, not to mention resources (credits and echo exp) to level said echoes. I already tried the somewhat "efficient'" way of echo farming by abusing it's pity system, but still the rolls on each piece still relies heavily on RNG. And with how expensive it is to get an echo to lvl20, let alone lvl25, I'm still sticking to the easier way of building which is 44111. I'll deal with that 43311 bullshit when my account is half a year old.
4,4,1,1,1 is great because it is very easy to build. Every Hoyo player knows how important elemental damage is, but as it stands. You can farm 4* super easy compared to 3*
Those freakin' 3 costs are are so f*cking limited. It's so hard to get. I completely agree with Gacha Smack. And I feel sorry for TenTen coz he is like that weird nerdy kid that doesn't understand reality normal ppl are living in.
I'm gonna record my echo farming, I get that on set 3 cost with the correct damage isn't common but either I'm extremely lucky or I get at least one every day and people are exagerating
It's definitely very difficult/annoying to obtain but people like hex who say "people don't want to play 16 hours a day" are WAYYYY over exaggerating... If someone grinded for 16 hours they wouldn't need to grind again for a while, they could build most of their characters with that alone.
My Encore is running 65.8/182 and currently 55% fusion damage. After farming for a set for Sanhua, I've knew it was insane luck that will take a long time to grind on natural drop rolls. 44111 is so much easier to farm for characters for the time investment. It makes them very strong, very quickly. Most of all they will keep up with the world level and the bosses/enemies in the tower earlier.
well the best spreadsheeter in the gacha genre is a CC called Maygii. She spreadsheeted 44111 and 43311. basically the math works out like this.
-at low levels with mediocre rolls, 43311 is on average 10% better. its actually better then 44111 at lower levels with mediocre stat rolls.
-at high levels with high constellations or great weapons, the difference between 44111 and 43311 almost vanish. so this argument is actually completely backwards. this dude you're reacting to said it himself he hasn't done the math yet.
Maygii called this argument "feelscraft", not "theorycraft"
Maygii's main point was the argument was pointless. the stronger your rolls get (for the echos) and the higher level and more constellations the more the difference vanishes, and depending on the character they might even flip. she was only objecting to the "common sense" that 44111 was better for f2p and low levels. and I think she proved her point, that it was actually 43311 which was better at lower levels.
FML I'm not having this discussion again with him and 4 other creators. All I'll tell you. It depends on circumstances and character building, any DPS character will want to have a 43311 BUILD overall but say for a Hyper HEALER like Baizhi for example. Having a Rejuvenating glow set 44111 with the 4's being healing bonus and with mainstat focus on HP for the 1's while trying to get some energy regen as a substat and so forth... Its based off of circumstance with the characters you're playing... But if we talk about OVERALL DPS/DMG You lose over 33% DPS over all. Crit rate and Crit DMG don't matter currently. Unless you build it in a character who has a HIGH BASE CRIT RATE. ugh I'm having a headache. I'm sorry if this seems aggressive but I'm just trying to clarify in a way that it's simple for people whose brain stopped functioning from playing GENSHIN IMPACT and HSR for too dayum long.
What I'm trying to say is making build actually goes way way way deeper then you think we just don't have access to everything yet, but as of right now we have make due with what we currently have.
Never understood going Meta...
I'm more of the use whatever you have kind of person...
I’m 😅 Corrupted. It’s because of HexJuices live Reaction to Yinlin pulls when she started singing then the dog joined in howling when Yinlin was pulled. That I ended up watching already three videos in less than 24 hours and now this one.
Worst part is I avoid vtubers ;-; but your content is entertaining damn Ty doggo and yinlin. Specially since idk who to trust information wise in WuWa my first gatcha.
I use 4/4/1/1/1 on calcharo because his crit would be nonexistent without the double crit rate 4/4 main stats. I have 4/3/3/1/1 on yinlin because I was stupid lucky with her pull and her weapon pull, while also being lucky enough to have a 3/3 with electro, and her weapon give crit rate.
You what you can make do with, calm down with the fine tuned min-max meta echo set ups. If you just make due with what you have, and shoot for what is realistic within that realm of possibilities, you just might surprise yourself. Fine tuning stats can come later when you build up your resources to focus on it. Don't hold yourself to whatever spreadsheet/CC says until you can realistically shoot for those numbers if min-max is your endgame.... and pray to RNG to be kind.
To be fair he was only talking about dmg yeah 44111 is better for just farming but if you do want more dmg 43311 is better
Yeah literally no one is contesting that 43311 does more damage, its just that 50% or more of the community doesnt care about 15% dmg increase for probably 10x the time and effort needed for that which completely went over tenten's head
@@longgalans yeah but watching his video i felt he more talked to the people that do care the people that do care about the little numbers but thats how i understood the video at least
@@meawmere6618 its more like this build will deal less damage, but good enough that it clears content for immensely less effort and time needed to farm
@@longgalans yeah its just more efficient to farm that right now
If you disagree with someone online because you have different opinions, present your opinion in a respectful way and not label the other's as "misinformation". There's always a way to have a debate online and not start any drama.
To note when building echos on your characters.. because of the way crit is weighted in this game, the ratio you want is 1:2 -100%. So if you have 250 crit damage, optimsl would be 75 crit rate. 200 crit damage, 50 crit rate :)
My Jiyan has 58.5% crit rate and 250.5% crit damage using 43311 and im f2p using aero set and double aero damage echos.
One thing to note, using 2 offset echos with the correct damage bonus is stronger than any amount of crit you would get from double 4s on set, as ele bonus and crit damage is weighted the same, youre losing a constant 60%, damage bonus for basically nothing😂
I do have a valid counterpoint to Gatcha smack though. And the counterpoint is that the substata on elemental pieces don't matter. Much like in Genshin Impact. The substats on elemenral pieces can be safely ignores infavor of the substats elsewhere, because it's not that one piece that will make or break a build. Of course, ensuring a solid crit chance and crit damage setup ealy on helps, but tha coes at he cost of solid atk values as well.
Crit substats hate me so much that I’m tempted to just run 444 lmao.
Hexjuice this felt like yapping tbh f2p players who have a life will benefit waay more from 4-3-3-1 with 2 peice sets than a 5 peice 4-4-1-1-1 set
It's like everyone who bashes Gachasmack's point are just ignoring the first 4 mins of he's video.
They hyperfocus on the min-max part and the dmg values. It's ridiculous.
thank you hex for making this video cause when i watched teccy i just blanked out lmao
Whale here with his 2 cents. Don't farm any in-game RNG until everything else is more or less maxed out. I have everyone unlocked and sitting between levels 50 and 70. Havoc Rover and Sanhua run 43311 full sets _only_ because I got lucky with the sub rolls. Everyone else is sitting on 44111 full set or 43311 2/2 pieces. The headache of getting a 3 cost echo in the first place, of the correct set, with the right stat, and decent subs isn't worth it at this point. You'll get them all eventually, and you'll have a spare 4 cost echo to throw onto whomever you want when you do.
Farming echoes this early on is a waste. Everything is scaled under the assumption that the majority of the players suck at the game and have half built characters anyway. Slap on a "good enough" set and carry on with the things that matter. Character levels, weapons, and skills will carry over. Echoes will get replaced with the shiny new BiS in a few patches. Worst case scenario, you'll have a decent 4 cost piece for whichever new "must pull" character comes out for that element.
The only time this doesn't apply is if there's some increased drop rate/amount thing going on. If they ever have a 100% echo drop rate event, I'm cleaning the map.
The difference between theory crafters and the "meta is everything" guys is that theory crafters will find out what's the best possible option, and list perfectly serviceable (and more realistic) alternatives. That's why any decent build recommendation has some easily obtainable f2p option as the baseline with everything else being "% of X" from that baseline.
Also, there is nothing in this game currently that requires a minmaxed build as long as you don't suck at the game. I'm pretty sure I already said it in the wall of text above, but the game is currently scaled to an inexperienced and undergeared playerbase. I'm not farming echoes because I have better things to spend my time on in game; ascension materials, talent materials, exp items, and currency. Having a larger roster of decently built characters is better than having one really big hammer.
Most importantly, just have fun. If you just want to run around, play the game, and explore the world, then do it. If you enjoy farming to get the absolutely best build you can, go for it. It's just a game. Enjoy it how you want, and let others enjoy it how they want.
I believe he also didn't say anything about GachaSmack's theory, he just said some people thought that 44111 was better so, he was trying to correct this. Unless i missed something, he isn't trying to invalidate GachaSmack as you're saying.
TLDR basically for more than 60 times the effort in farming 43311 set... you have the potential to be 1%-5% more powerful than the 44111 build.... so who is actually right... think for yourselves.... that 60 times is before the substats rolls.... and at max potential dmg with substats rolls, the difference with a maxed out 44111 build and a 43311 build is only 1%....
I feel 44111 is ok if you’re in the middle of grinding two sets of the same element. My Yinlin has 44111 rn cause I haven’t found decent 3 star electro dmg echos for days. Once I find 4 decent ones, I can eventually find one more 1 star and then split them into two 43311s, the other set for Calcharo.
Farming 3cost before UL40 is a wate of time. And majority of the players haven't reached UL40. So 44111 is the way to go for now. People can work towards 43311 after 40.
I feel like if you want the best dps 43311 is the way but your flashy numbers will be lower until you get better subs. The 44111 is funner for people who want to see more crits and doesn't matter about the dps but just want to have fun.
Imagine bein so smart u use calculus to prove somebody wrong but to dumb to kno the point he was making
44111 is good at early and stockpile some resources for the 43311 the elemental damage boost is really strong to pass up for now I'm stacking my EXP and tuners purple exp is now 400 and gold is 100 blue is 400 and my 5star tuner is just 300 I rolled for 6 off my characters and I'll just roll with that stats for now even if they're DEF and HP on my DPS character