1872 Beyond Batteries For Home Energy Storage
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- čas přidán 19. 03. 2023
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I saw the video length and was enthralled. I couldn't wait to hear the dissertation on today's topic! I made some hot chocolate and got cozy then started in on the lecture. Holy moly was I surprised when about 5 minutes into the video RMS said adios!!
Do consider a 50 minute lecture sometime on whatever topic is really bringing the passion for you 😅❤
Yes Lucas i did the same🤣🤣but a coffee not chocolate
@@1963knight Correct
I cant wait to hear his explanation tee hee
I wonder how long the upload time was.
Here the same with cofe
i thought that 36:14 couldnt be surpassed but then came 51:16, wow!
LOL :D Five minutes of video, and then 45 minutes to think about what I've learned. ... Brilliant!
"Personal Study" time
The last 45 mins were my path to enlightenment, I've been practicing mindfulness for 7 years, and in all that time I've never come close, but those 45mins really did the trick, thanks Robert.
For all us Patrons with additional access, best 51mins ever, looking forward to part two.
Hey Robert - were you exploring dark matter from 5:56 onward?
I was hoping for a secret track🙃
I found the secret table on types of energy storage in the last 20 seconds.........like a end scene in a marvel movie, at least the 5 minutes of Robert were worth my time
Snap 😂😂
51:03 👍
I liked the video starting at 5:56. The Amish Christmas lights were awesome.
Hi Rob. CZcams offers basic editing tools that will let you cut the video to the proper length even after uploading and marking public
Another great video, though somewhat understated after the 6min mark 😉
I barely have the time to keep up with all your content but yet here you are creating it. You're a true champion of the energy mission. Thank you for all you do!
As an engineer, I really appreciate your explanations of, and adherence to, fundamental principles of economics, manufacturing, and, of course, physics. Great stuff! 👍
Actually, I'm a laser-communications engineer, but this is my lunch hour. 😁
I like how my deep freezer, which is attached to my home made solar store's thermal energy. My solar hot water heater too.
I thought it was like one of those Marvel movies where you'd come back with a teaser for the next video but no. I watched the whole dang thing expectantly 🤣🤣 Thanks sir, great information as usual.
I settled in and kept watching hoping there was more.
Rob is just testing to see if people will watch longer videos. I personally enjoyed every minute.
I'm not sure if your aware but there is about 40 minutes of blank video after you stop speaking
When you forget to change your out mark on the timeline
@@BillHallProductions been there done that one!
I love the idea of an in-depth video on home battery options.
The blackout simulator at the end of the video was an effective way to emphasize the utility of having power storage at the home level 😏
😂😹🤣👍🍻
At 5:56... and now for something completely different :)
I'd settled in for something monumental being 51 min. Well something monumental was shown in the 5 minute video. Always interesting when it comes to storage of power. Thanks NW ga.
Yes I am using old fashioned lead acid battery's for my evolving off grid home & am constantly looking for different solutions & it's nice to see you pointing out the difference + & - for various energy storage systems.
Ever make "Crystal Cell", frpm Epson Salt, + salt substitute Copper and Magnesium, low amp voltage but sealed and in parallel they can Slow feed "Lasersaber" channel where I saw this, my DIY, stll 1.4V .20Amp 6 years on shelf. Never built a Cluster, but intend to, hook it to capacitor (Smooth current)to charge controller side by side with PV . Trickle through the nighttime, carry through cloudy days. Just a thought, Cheer's to Getting off Grid. PV, Wind, Rain(YT Vid, RainGutter water 3-Dprinted, Pelton turbine) and river Hydro.
Electricity from Air videos on YT, also worthwhile low current built that lasts for Decade's, 4 Capacitor 4 Diode, Antenna and Earth ground, 1.5Vper circuit, same old, Series=Volt, parallel =Amp, $2.50 per unit, dozen YT vid's. I built few, they work. Bendini SSG, also DIY circuit for you to consider..See "myth busters lie" vid YT. Good luck on the QUEST FOR 0-Point.
Rob, You gave us 5 minutes of speach and over 50 minutes to think about it ; )
Love Billy Bob Thornton. When I was little, he hosted a tv show that presented old corny monster films around Halloween time. Fond memories.
I did not know that.
I used to live in a thermal battery.
It was one of a beautiful old line of miners terrace houses that I was renting in Bristol. The single skin stone walls were getting on for 30" thick, and would soak up heat all summer long, then release it as the temperature started dropping. Even during snowy winter periods, as long as you got a blazing fire going for a couple of hours each evening it would top up the heat stored in the internal walls, and stop it feeling cold till mid way through the following evening.
Loved that house, but it was in a REALLY crappy part of the city. I chose to hand back the keys the SECOND time my car got stolen from outside in 6 months. :(
This video really gives me the time I need to think on the subject.
I had an idea of combining a gravity battery and a spring battery where you have a concrete weight that you lift to store energy, but additionally, you have a spring pushing down on that concrete weight so that lifting the concrete weight takes much more energy. I'm not quite sure what the lifting mechanism or energy recovery mechanism would look like though.
Simpler to use a bigger, heavier, weight (Tungsten is pricey but...), or just use a really, really big spring! Adding a spring to a weight doubles the complexity and so reduces the efficiency and reliability. Good old KISS!
I still like your blade wall😊
You mentioned energy storage. In 1976 or 1977, can't remember now, we in the Plasma and Laser Lab at the University of Florida built a self balancing flywheel, ~2 meters in diameter made out of a 550 lb parachute cord with a braided sheath of the same cord. We got it up to 30,000 rpm in atmosphere. The unit massed ~50 kilograms.
Lots of energy stored here.
your idea at the 10 minute mark about sonic oscillators linked to reactor power switches got me thinking!
Clever Robert..uploads a 13 minute video with 7 minutes of blank screen....that's one way to trick CZcams ad revenue 10 minute requirement.
16:22 😂😂 if only I'd thought it that years ago I'd still new married!
“Some people call it a slingblade “ have you seen the emergency battery they make for sailors, it is a cooler set up as battery that you fill with salt water and it gives enough power to run your radio to call for help.
Wow tell us more.
@JohnO6498
I'm fairly certain that Robert has made a Video about That One!!
I'm sorry I can't remember the number of this video, though!!
Namasté 🙏
Andrea and Critters. ...XxX....
@@russellm7530 well you go to the search engine of your choice and type in your request.
I think it's the same battery they use for sonobouys
Robert, wonderful perspective, you are a legend. Heat storage... wind turbines... the little grey cells are whirring!
Great video practical advice
Interesting, thanks! 👏
I found myself staring at a blank space for ages but was then rewarded right at the end with a slide for my effort. lol
Hands up those who cheated and FF to the end? 👋
I'm not sad but after seeing the video length I couldn't wait to get started.
Funny i watched all 51 minutes, very informative
Thanks for the great information and insights! As Audio is considered to account for about 60% of the audience experience, might I suggest a few meters of cable and a unidirectional desk microphone or lapel microphone connected to your video recording device to improve the listening experience of your audience?
Moving demand around in time is often just as valuable as moving supply around in time. Getting ourselves and our industry to do activities when power is available is a big shift, but that's why economics is the science of human behavior.
"CZcams video length for battery storage" 😂
Was very much looking forward to a long form video... can't win em all... lol. Love your channel btw... been with you for quite a while. You should consider a deep dive long format video on occasion. ❤
After a brief search it seems that Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion (OTEC) has been ignored or passively censored on this channel. It deserves full consideration.
I guess I will just sit here and contemplate the meaning of life as the timer runs out. Pondering the possibilities for lunch.
Great explanation, as always!
I’m making some drawings,
& doing some math,
about a solar powered sand battery for in my living room,
for next Winter.
It may take some experimental research!
Not to rely on, but to lessen the hydro bill.
They’re through the roof lately,
& the extra insulation I put up in the attic,
isn’t really saving as much as we thought!
I knew about them, but got inspiration,
from your video on the subject!
Thank-you for sharing
Keep your smiles on!
What I can tell you is. You must find the particle size you would need. Must look at what kind of sand they use in the big scale sand batteries.
Been thinking about using a few 18-24" sat dishes, to heat something, maybe oil that is circulating inside a about 8, 55 gal drums, with 40 gal drums inside, with wood blocks with holes inside, to prevent thermal conduction, with blocked around the sides also, with the small drum passing through the larger drums lid, weld the lids to both drums. Then pull a vacuum on the internal space using the vacuum as insulation. Repeat on all 8, put about 100' of steel tubing, about 1/4" Diameter, in each drum. Using a 12" x 24" plate made from 1" tubing zigzagging, in a insulated box with one glass side, with a black ceramic coating on the tubing, circulate the fluid through the plate slowly, and back in a closed loop, with the barrels filled with a dust like sand and the tubing, heat the oil to a near it's limit , maybe use water, under 10 bar pressure it should prevent boiling, and heating well beyond 212°F use a a heat exchanger to use the heat, point is , use the sun to heat the sand gto 300°F maybe closer to 400°F also using the heat exchanger, a wood fire can also charge the system! It may only be to 250°F but should make heating over night and then some easy, especially if the lid insulation covers are vacuum insulated like the drums, it should prevent 90-95% heat drum leaking especially if the whole thing is in a 1" foam insulated box, maybe start with a single barrel, see how efficient it is, maybe a single barrel could be heated. From the top, after inversion, directly heating the sand, to possibly 800°f at the hottest, and around 300at the coldest, the sun could possibly melt the outer layer , about 24"-30" diamond Glass to allow thd sun to heat the sand, maybe place a steel lid version directly on a wood stove, allowing the sand to be heated to the temperature of the stovetop, 400°F + , (possibly) with the water being under high pressure, it coukf. De possible, 120-150 psi,. There should be no boiling, if a carcan run at 250°f at 18psi or less, running 120+/- psi it should be capable of remaining Stable at 350°f+
Here I am rambling again!!:sorry!! 😕
Apparently Porsche have made a renewables-only factory that creates hydrocarbons. Yep, petrol!
Now that's an energy store I can get on board with :D
good video Robert
Ooh, Robert! You got us good!! 😂😂
Quite a long video... I like the chart at 51:04.
Lmao i didn't see that chart
That everlasting (with Maintenance)Zinc-bromide battery build was a brilliant lesson.£300 for a 25 kg of the electrolyte, how much power could a 25 kg sack worth hold with a reasonably good build , your good experienced estimate would give good encouragement ?
I recall a movie or series with Andy Griffiths as a junk yard proprietor and he builds a spaceship from all the repurposed technology.
I see that the video was 50+ minutes long and was ready for a great episode! However I think silent night is a little boring mate 😂 but I wonder how long people actually watched for until they realised lol 😆
I love the idea of flow batteries. Gravity batteries not as much.
A whole house (10*10*10 meters, to be optimistic) filed with water would store 2.7kWh for each meter it was lifted, so for home storage it is not as feasible. If you have the land on the other hand, it is probably super cheap in the end.
Robert talking about films along with being the creative genius that he is made me think about a film called October sky, love that film.
So there's a concept of energy storage where they pump air into huge bags in the ocean then the weight of the water is used to force the air back out when the energy is required, obviously a type of gravity storage but I wonder if a buoyancy type storage has been tried?
Hilarious after show of the black cat in a coalmine !!!! Jokes aside, Thanks for the tip about the Astronaut Farmer, not seen that and sounds like its worth a watch :)
great vid i think from all the looking and number crunching (not necessarily building) i have done over the years for home generation and storage using cost ,ease ,safety, space, flexibility as factors the sand battery is the most effective solution especially if every property dedicated a couple square meters to it. They can be both slow and fast charged as well as discharged using relatively basic principles
In times of emergencies (floods, earthquakes, storms, fires etc) they would be more resilient and useful forms of storage i would imagine of course for such an idea to ever become a reality commerce must be put in its place , if only society could develop a non commercial NEED based structure and leave WANTS for the commercial arm of society
51:03 looks nice sums up of the lecture
was the 45 minutes of blank screen for contemplation?
Keeping us in the dark for a while there Robert!
Right at the end, does the chart omit hot sand thermal storage, or is that included in ceramic thermal storage?
add the ice battery for hot areas,as well as refrigerator with fase change material so they stay cold overnight without external energy.
Who else skipped to the end to see if there was a secret video.
As near as I can tell, jellyrolling a battery or supercap is good for minimizing x, y, AND z dimensions... it's therefore good for minimizing retail shelf space and fitting into limited spaces such as EV chassis....and it's good for reducing evaporative area / conserving electrolyte....but for home storage, the first two of those 3 are N/A and if tightly stacked, the 3rd is N/A as well to keep it simple by just building out planar form factor cells, keeping the cell voltage under the electrolysis threshold for the selected electrolyte, & sealing each cell. It is still painstaking to build enough cells to truly support a building's energy needs but jellyrolling is an unnecessary complication. There is also an argument I suppose that jellyrolling reduces the cell's I/O resistance but even that has a solution in the planar format by tailoring the footprint and thickness of the electrode to the cell output power. But yeah, agree completely that breaking through conventional boundary conditions is a necessary part of process to create practical and useful solutions.
Rob, upcycle advice sought. A local cable installer often throws out new and used coax cable with a ground connected to it and I can't help myself but collect it. But I don't know what I can use it for. Do you have any recommendations
Try making lemon batteries but leave them on the tree
I'm currently knocking myself out trying it. (sodium Iron phosphate batteries) I'll get back to you if I remember to =D
Redox flow battery. Every home should have one
I have not thought about that film for a long time. Going to find it for movie night.
Edit:
I always thought that movie was a latter day Salvage 1 with Andy Griffith.
good vid.
Question. With a sand battery could you run a Stirling engine from one of these? Obviously you would need an appropriate heat sink but it would be one one to solve the intermittency problem, surely
Which is best for home storage of those you mentioned?
Great
"And that's brilliant, when you think that some 60% of our energy use is for space and water heating."
And that right there is why I am about to embark upon a Rocket Stove necked through a gas water heater, a pump, and a small car radiator with integral fan for inside the Caravan. That way I can heat far more safely than if I have a fire inside the trailer.
😂there was a slide at the end😊
I believe you have touched on a subject we are all considering but don’t have enough knowledge to make a decision how we are going to store the power. A wind generator,particularly in my area is something I am currently constructing but still cannot confidently decide on a cost effective and reliable battery. Gelion is a zinc-bromide battery in Australia, but not available yet to consumers. The question is do I wait for the release, or purchase something else as our electricity here is very costly and an increase over 30% forecast.
50:00
I was Expecting a " Day in the Life" Beatles joke about here...
Somewhat like a gravity battery: pulling objects which normally float deeper and deeper under water.
He's left the camera running again 😂😂😂
how about the nickel iron battery chemistry for stationary energy storage. you must have experimented with them at some point
Human do something over and over again:
Robert: it's physically impossible!
Ross from Friends: it's physically impossible!
What would happen if you mixed sand/graphine and used it specifically as a heat energy store ?
Thanks for your thoughts, although it did get a little Zen like towards the end 😅
Who ever said you had to roll it up? They won't work in linear planes?
Would be much leaner to stack... if they worked that way.
Yay!🎉
Im thinking about adding a sand battery, with my home build. Fun part getting the electric out. thermal or maybe a recycled steam engine, Hmmm. Ohh, steam punk, that could be cool.
And a sneaky chart there hiding at the end of the video
Well, thought I would check up on you Rob, so I asked ChatGPT AI what he thought of your talk:
QUESTION:
I heard this old codger give this talk on battery technology. Is he right or has he lost his marbles, and should he be 'put out to pasture'?:
Batteries, batteries and supercapacitors. Now I've worked in this industry developing batteries and supercapacitors for, I don't know 30 years or something like that. So I get asked an awful lot about how to make a battery super capacitor. Now in their essence, they're actually very simple. It's little more than sticking a copper nail on a zinc nail and a lemon and you'll have enough energy to run a clock. The basic battery is stunningly simple with only five components or a piece of cake to put together. That's never the issue. The issue is if you do that, you won't get a lot of power. You need a lot of them. And I don't mean a lot in terms of a couple of 100 I mean a lot in terms of 1000s of them. Now you have to make that that's challenging because although people are awesome, lots and lots of things. One thing they're not awesome at is doing the same job time and time again. So take this it's a 500 Farad super capacitor, which is not a lot of energy. In there is about four and a half meters of aluminium foil, coated both sides with a bit of carbon and rolled up tank. If you think four and a half meters isn't that much gunk in a strip of Bekoff file from your kitchen cupboards on row four and a half meters. We're trying to roll it up again. Five will get you 10. You either go offline or you make it wrinkly and you just don't roll it. rolling it back up is challenging when it's four and a half meters. Because you could get a machine to do it constantly. But a battery rolling machine will begin at something like 20 to 25,000 pounds to buy one. That's to make one of these because there's an energy store you're going to need a couple of 1000 of these. So you tried doing that time and time again, that it's going to be for a human being physically impossible to do that repetitious tax, you're going to need to buy some machinery or create some machinery in order to do it. So in the world of the batteries, you are the astronaut founder and you have that kind of dedication, then yeah, you're gonna be able to make your own batteries for home storage, expect to spend five to 10 years and somewhere in the region of 100 to 200,000 pounds, and you'll be able to create a battery bank for your house. No worries at all perfectly doable. Anybody who has that qualities is going to be able to do it and you're going to be able to invent new batteries but most people and I hear most people I'm talking about 95 to 99% of people are not going to do that they're going to set off quite happily thinking they can do it. Give it a go make a mess and just go down to the store and buy a battery because the terminal and battery safety pins per unit and then an 18 650 is four pounds per unit essentially expensive per unit. But once you've struggled with this not very much now if you don't believe any of what I've said, this is not an issue for me knock yourself out and go and try it come back in five years time and we'll have a cup of tea and not give you a biscuit commiseration and you're going to have an awful job doing that. Now that seems like a death knell for home storage, but it isn't. One is I'm calling your attention to the fact that when you think of a battery, do not rush to the default condition of this being a battery or batteries and energy store of which it is is one example. It's one way of storing energy. But there are just so many ways of storing energy. The first one that comes to mind is the finished standard battery was in the news recently. It's basically just a big old pile of sand and a thermos. They're heated up when they've got the energy generation and then they'll take the heat out later and that's brilliant when you think that something like 60% of our energy requirement is in space and water heating, the amount we're used to things like lights and electronics is piffling in comparison. There's also gravity batteries and gravity batteries are a huge area that include pumped hydro, the same stuff that we did with the sand wheel and even just dropping rocks down the shaft. There's a building in India where the entire building is powered overnight by for lift shafts which weights in them. Then of course, we've got flywheels which has been actively researched and compressed air or compressed gas whether it's compressed by a compressor or by the pressure of seawater. Then there is a really good alternative electrochemical battery that's very rarely explored in that the low battery all of these work really well in home storage because space is until limitation because in cars space is a limitation to pretty much no good for them. But at their home storage when you don't have that same limitation. There's just a huge range of alternatives for you to explore.
ANSWER:
Based on the information provided, the old codger seems to have a good understanding of battery technology and the challenges involved in developing and producing batteries and supercapacitors. He explains that while the basic principle of a battery is simple, creating a powerful and efficient battery requires thousands of components that must be manufactured consistently, which is challenging. He suggests that creating batteries for home storage is possible but would require a significant investment of time and money, and that there are many alternative methods of storing energy that should be explored as well. Overall, the old codger's talk seems informative and reasonable.
QUESTION:
So you are saying that he has not lost his marbles and he should not be put out to pasture yet?
ANSWER:
Based on the information presented in the text, it seems like the old codger in question has a wealth of experience in the battery industry and is providing valuable insights into the challenges of creating batteries and supercapacitors. While his perspective may be daunting for those looking to create their own batteries at home, he does suggest that there are many alternative energy storage options available. Therefore, it would not be fair to say that he has lost his marbles or should be put out to pasture.
QUESTION:
Oh ok. Well I shall tell him what you said. He will be pleased to know.
ANSWER:
I'm glad I could be of help. If you have any more questions or concerns, feel free to ask!
😜😜
Great content Rob, as always.
Thank you 😃
hey wow 51 minutes. and then i watch it is only 5 minutes and the last 46 minutes is black screen.
how about making hydrogen fuel cells from the electricity produced by a generator? could store the hydrogen in a air tank or something like that.
Go to @51:01
A demonstration of zero point energy.
There was a secret message when a certain Beatles' LP was played backwards .
Never Store Hydrogen Gas. Store Water and Crack it/separate it, on Demand. My first DIY Hydrogen cell, I had excess gas that ignited, only a Pint volume small PSI, Shook the Building injured my hand and Ear's.
The Shock wave from Hydrogen ignition is severe danger. Just speaking from Experience, on demand Gas, from Stored Electricity.
Sound can crack water, Piezoelectric speaker, done in Japan., works more efficient (20%) than Standard Electrolysis . Just a thought.
Which of these have the highest energy density, and or lowest cost per kWh? Nice to have the alternatives, but if the energy density is too low, or the cost too high, then they might be nothing more than research interests!
I like the idea of home energy storage say for small home generation. But havent found the cost effective solution yet. For my own pv project a simple grid tie inverter (£100 600w) to offset home baseline electric consumption seems most cost effective with additional solenoid switch in with a current switch on mains to ensure not exporting back to grid. (Cheap Limiter function.) May need batteries for smooth buffer for generators with non smooth voltage peaks (wind turbine etc) then use 12v battery with inverter.
Charge controller.
Seen the whole video.
I still like the gravity battery best. Here's why.
I'm not sure but I assume:
You get out of it what you put into it, other batteries have some losses of energy.
The "charge " can be held forever.
The discharge curve is flat.
I like this idea too. Unfortunately there are mechanical and electromagnetic losses when raising and lowering. It appears to require the least knowledge to put it all together. I though of a concrete dwelling as the weight with a lift shaft to get you in and out of the house. Cables would lift and lower the house as power is available or needed.
there is also using electricity to split water into hydrogen and oxygen (store the hydrogen in tanks of course). i think its only like 30% efficient, but hydrogen can be stored very long.
Why not combine a sand like heat storage battery with a gravity battery? Storing 2 types of energy with one substance. What we would need to know is the lowest possible cost of combined BTU and per Pound/KG/Ton material. Both systems should be material agnostic so cost per heat storage and weight are the only criteria needed for evaluation.
❤
I think the 50 mins. of black screen is an energy store.
Yeah he's trolling us we'll find out how it works next video 😂
I've noticed that the supposed aluminum 'batteries' are actually a generator that consumes the metal as a fuel instead.
Starting at the 6h minute, the video shows you what life would be like without working batteries or power source?
I couldn't watch all the way to the end... Sorry! LOL 🤣🤣
IMO the zinc bromide is the easiest mid energy density battery to multi replicate at home.
What was with almost 50 minutes of black screen?