2009: Gene Simmons vs. Bob Lefsetz
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- čas přidán 19. 11. 2014
- Ding! LAADEEEZ AND GENTLEEEMEN! Our Main Event Begins!
In one corner: Demon Rock Star and Dark Lord of Self-Promotion, Gene Simmons. In the other, respected music journalist and hobbit, Bob Lefsetz. This is it! The fabled rumble in the music jungle, the decade’s debate between Gene and Bob, at the Music Conference during Canadian Music Week 2009.
The big problem with picking a side is that the combatants are very much of the same cloth: both are arrogant, opinionated, alpha males. Gene’s just much taller, Bob has better hair. It’s almost a miracle they weren’t peeing circles around their chairs to mark their territory. But that’s what made the confrontation so compelling. Gene and Bob held mirrors up to each other, as each rose to the other’s bait. This is world-class wrestling, but with words and wills.
Gene virtually twirled his mustache as Bob challenged him to do more than just “shill.” “What’s your track record behind the scenes?” Bob asked. Gene, for his part, remained serenely superior, forgetting or mispronouncing Bob’s last name, asking again and again, “Who are you, exactly?” Neither one backed down. Nor should have.
Bob Lefsetz has been an entertainment business attorney, which certainly helped him navigate the shark-infested waters of the music industry. He’s best known as an industry analyst and critic, and for writing the on-line Lefsetz Letter. (lefsetz.com/) He’s not really a hobbit, they’re usually not so cranky.
Since forming the rock band Kiss with Paul Stanley in 1973, Gene Simmons has sold more than 100 million albums worldwide, had his own reality television show, and turned 3 chords and the ability to breathe fire into a media presence of significant scope. Gene continues his Adventures In Capitalism to this day.
2014 HD edit, assembled from 2009 SD line-cut. - Hudba
As far as Gene is concerned, an old saying comes to mind. “ I’d like to buy him for what he’s worth and sell him for what he thinks he’s worth.”
I'm going to have to remember that line. That's very useful.
@@ritcheymt ...I think Gene has proven the most "useful" thing for "worth" are high heels and a face full of make-up... professional lighting probably doesn't hurt either.
So, you'd buy him for pennies and end up a billionaire. It's a solid plan!
Gene has how many millions? And how much do YOU have? Who has the worth?
@@DannyRayMilligan66 there's so much wrong with your statement and it's too general to respond to. Acting like all his money is clean
2019, 10 years later from this. None was done. No acts were the next big thing, no critics were proven wrong, no cash was made. No canadian bands were shipped to stardom.
yeah...cause sadly enough it would be 100x easier and all of what gene said would probably work,if you have a pop star/rapper. he's not totally wrong, but he thinks rock bands are still the hot new shit when it ain't
@@339blackdiamond he couldn't do shit with a rap star
@@thaterasound Fo sure 😂 he can make money with dumb ass shit like air guitar string but he lost touch with the music world artistically speaking a long fucking time ago
2022, and apparently, Gene the Big Entrepreneur is still searching for that band.
Just because you sign as a band does not guarantee success. The people may not like your music. That's the risk of the business. Most rock bands that sign do not become KISS, RUSH, VH, etc.
THAT WAS GREAT! I NEEDED THAT
What you don't see is the tension in the air of this packed room of about 800 plus who's who music Industry people. The back and forth was intense. Best insult of the Night was when Gene tried to insinuate he slept with Bob's Mother. Bob kills him by returning with, "Gene my mother doesn't even know you." I was sitting beside Ash the drummer for Sarah Mclachlan and a few seats over Jake Gold Managing the Hip at the time. We kept looking at each other in disbelief of how vile it got. I was the first to talk to Gene after they walked off stage. He looked totally beat up. Maybe the only chance I had, I asked Gene if he would consider endorsing our youth studio. To quote him, "This is charity. I'm here for commerce." Friends don't meet your hero's. This one turned out to be a has been Zero, as Bob pointed out through out the night. Just an amazing night. Get to a CMX convention. Neil gets the most incredible people.
the guy insulted gene first, am i right, and i wish i stole bob lawyers money..
he sound like the dirty type more than gene, let him be your
neighbor.. the kind who might bug you in court for money, not work
should have said that she doesn't hang out with guys who wear make-up
@@jontaylor4511 That wouldn't have hit so hard.
@Honey Babou probably not the best gambit to resort to ad hominem with gene. his real weakness was not being able to present a compelling argument for his artists, falling back on perceived status and ego only goes so far, really has no place in business.
Gene Simmons has always been arrogant and self-centered he’s all about the dollar ask his bandmates .
What would they say?
he worth $350 Million that not too bad
And you probably Poor life Jealous Skater
hes a jew
His whole personality was defined and fixed in the late seventies, as if in amber, while trying to bed insecure, 14 year old girls after stadium events.
Gene even said, "I don't know what you do, but you do it well." Gene knows he got kicked around.
And deserved it
Is this guy going to challenge Gene to pick which challis has the poison? Inconceivable!
The gentleman debating Gene looks like the "that's inconceivable!" guy from "The Princess Bride".
And SOUNDS like him many times, too.
At the end of the day, they’re both walking away with what they want. Gene walked away with his bag of money, and bob walked away with the satisfaction of taking on Gene
Just seen this is from 2009. As of 2019 : Gene hasn’t signed anyone, Canadian or not, since then. No releases on Simmons Records. No artist management.
Watch this about Gene:
czcams.com/video/7aWfPSHw2bI/video.html
JokersWild45 you have the market cornered on jealousy, 👍.
or reality.
@capitalismforme LMAO. I'm a retired L.A. City Fire Captain and EMT-I, and am doing just fine, genius. Not only that, I don't walk around all day long trying to figure out ways to screw people out of money by taking advantage of them. BTW, the last time I "served fries" was my fresjman year in high school, lol. Now what do ya got for me? Anything interesting at all?
@@billyholiday8494 Oh absolutely. I'd love to be a herpes riddled, wig wearing idiot who thinks he knows everything, and that money automatically buys respect. It doesn't. I'm 49 and have already been retired for 3 years, guy. You just worry about blowing that next customer so you can make rent.
As I watched this, I found it almost impossible not to feel a little bad for Gene who clearly got slapped around
I don't know what you do but you do it very well. Lol
Gene's "360 degree" management spiel is code for having his hand in the pocket of every conceivable revenue stream one of his bands could possibly come up with
"Gene Simmons didn't discover Van Halen, he told me about them but so did a lot of other people." Bill Aucion ( manager of kiss in the 1970s)
@joe mama You keep vomiting all of this bullshit out about Simmons and VH, but the fact is that he had ZERO to do with their success. Mo Ostin, Ted Templeman and Warner's found and broke Van Halen on their own. What did Gene have to do with that? Exactly. Rodney Bingenheimer did more for VH than Simmons. So shut up. You sound like a bigger tool than Chaim.
joe mama Truth 🙌🏻💯
In actual fact, it was Stanley that discovered Van Halen and convinced Gene to go see them the following night. As always, Gene takes full credit...the fact is if you were a part of that scene (they weren't) you knew about VH. It was literally around the corner and worldwide domination soon followed. At which point, KISS was playing disco and making gum, toothpaste, toys and basically destroying any legacy they could have had.
Go tell that to GENE... You do forget that GENE paid for their DEMO !!🤨
Gene has never broke a successful band on any label he has ran or been apart of. When he managed Liza Menelli she was way past her prime and he did nothing for her. She was more successful before she ever met Gene and and frankly he just wanted to bang her. He is just an aging Rockstar who is very successful with Kiss but alone he isnt really that successful.
Thats because kiss works every month every year. Simply no time to really make a band successful because kiss is so busy
Simmons is a smart businessman but he's an obvious schmuck
Gene wil be the first to tell you he never wanted to bang Liza. the rest ......
@@toddadams8420 Simmons is just a guy who signs the paper to put the Kiss label on everything someone will write him a check for. His manager did most of the work based on his show and even Stanley said Simmons is far more of a self promoter than a business man.
Bullies fold when someone stands up to them.
That was fascinating. I've never seen anyone take Gene Simmons on.
@capitalismforme lol you the biggest troll of this video
Gene speaking is insufferable
Gene reminds me of Seagal.
Conversation Strangler Steven yup fat,ugly,washed up,hasn’t been relevant in years, and full of shit!
seagal could play better bass
they look like brothers. lol.
Conversation Strangler Steven that’s who it is! I was thinking it and couldn’t put my finger on it. Good old Stevie! Hahaha they could be twins and they both act douchey.
Same hairdresser (Home Depot?).
Well, Gene, this concept aged like milk
Love both of these guys. Fun stuff!
As of 2017, Simmon's darling band "Down with Webster" is no more. After some early success in Canada, the band apparently was never able to break thru in the US/World market and disbanded.
Gene Simmons reminds me of my nextdoor neighbor during elementary through high school. He, too, was a narcissist sociopath.
Or he’s just confident? A narcissist to one is a genius to another. It’s subjective.
Buenos Airies Stadium? 90,000? Half an hour? Not a word of truth....
Pure spin.
"The tour went on to gross $30,500,000 and play to over 385,000 fans in sold-out arenas from October to December 2009."
Pure lies Maxwell.
20:59 "It's forty years! Forty years! It's Inconceivable! Inconceivable!"
I am not so sure u r using that word correctly... Princess Bride LOLOLOLOL!
No wonder Ace Freehly and Peter Criss hated Gene.
Gene is detestable
Donald Trump, Steven Segal, Gene Simmons. They are all the same. Psychopathic, nutjobs.
U can tell what God thinks of money, by the people he gives it to.
Donald Trump? the same man who wanted to suspend mortgages and fund people who are out of their jobs so they can survive but Dems voted against it for this corona virus.
trump blew corona off as a non-issue and also dismantled global health teams when he got in. the WHO had to correct him on his statements as he was talking smack.
both of them have fumbled it really, they already saw what happened in china and italy. not a lot of leadership happening.
Both fights for recovering the Rock music but sadly rap - hip hop ruled the world .
Bob is right - they haven’t had a Platinum album since 1988. They’ve done well touring for decades with makeup and bombs and lights trading off their 70s success. Full credit to them for that but gene pretends they’re relevant MUSICALLY. Which blatantly isn’t true.
@J D Pavarotti sold more records than that but what the f*** man what are you stupid or dumb
Hallelujah!!
Gene is a celebrity with CREDIBILITY in the entertainment industry. Period!
As true as far as trading off his success is concerned, well the man is not 18 years old anymore but he still has a lot of support from a lot of his fans worldwide.
At least he did have a lot of success when he was younger and that's what a lot of people are jealous about. It's what I'm jealous about. I'm 55 years old and still looking for my Brighter Day.
Oh my god! You’re right! I couldn’t place him at first but you nailed it! He is a clone of the guy from Princess Bride! Hahaha.
I know who Simmons and KISS are, I never heard of this other guy. Lots of people like to hate Gene because he is a success. The people bashing him are nobodies.
Gene would rob your publishing in a second
So I just Googled Simmons Records and if the information is correct as of 2020 the label has released a total of seven albums. Not quite the track record that Gene was look for I'm sure.
That was almost ten years ago and since then Gene made absolutely nothing happen in accordance with his grand promotional plan. We can therefore say that Lefsetz was thoroughly right and Gene was thoroughly wrong.
Every time a star or a producer has told me I've gotta check this artist out, the act has gone exactly nowhere, and you dont even see them in the $2 bin at Kmart in 5 years time..
@Johnny Cade KISS can't fill an arena anymore. They normally stick to festivals that already have audience. However, every festival I've been to, the KISS performance will have quadruple the attendance. But, that could be because a festival ticket is 1/4th the price of a standard KISS arena ticket.
SmithCommaBenjamin hahaha thanks for the 😂, KISS tour is doing fine thank you
Down With Webster signed with Universal and was forgotten shortly afterwards.
I feel like the other guy should be replaced with that dude from "The Princess Bride". "Never go against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line!!"
Darius Pour ×m
It's uncanny lol!
This guys voice is very similar to the voice of Benny, Top cats best friend from the animated television show. 😂😂😂
Well there's a cartoon I haven't thought about in many many many years
And the T-Rex from Toy Story
I actually enjoyed both Gene and Bob in this hahaha
The music business has to be one of the toughest businesses in the world. I think Gene is trying to make a sincere effort at trying to help new artists. But it's not an easy thing to do. But at least he's trying to help someone. And if he should make a profit from it, why not? Like the group Ratt says, "Nobody Rides For Free. "
Very interesting as it's now 11yrs ago this exchange took place. The petty comments from Gene were fine at first, it's his intro on stage & part of his shtick but in continuing with it just came off as petty. There were multiple opportunities for Gene to explain his position but he stuck to a very bland and generic business model/opportunity.
And since this video Gene has never had a single successful act. Still he continues to sell trinkets from his act which has not sold any albums since the early 80s. Gene is essentially the used car salesman of the music industry.
And before, since and now you've made how many millions? Very strange seeing someone who comments about the success of others while having done nothing they have. You type. That's why you're here and Simmons isn't.
@@davidaston5773 Yes because I can only point this out unless I have made millions? What a stupid comment. How pathetic.
Kiss albums all went platinum through 1990 had a big hit called Forever. Kiss lasted alot longer than most bands they just were not as big after the 70's hey day. But still longer than Matchbox 20 and the Goo goo dolls bands that were big in 90's and really died off. They are totally in nostalgia mode now but so is Aerosmith Stones and Paul McCartney. He does sound really silly here though I agree.
Which one is in costume?
Lol
That was awesome. Gene OWNED for the first 15 minutes. Bob, in the end, was right and more in-touch with the current music landscape.
Wrong. Go to the facts and Gene has been right all the time, both onstage and offstage.
Gene had this "little white man midget" the whole time.
Gene Simmons is a legend in his own mind!
Yet 75 thousand people came to this video to get inside his mind
@@mikeraz594 are you presuming to speak for 75,000 people? I just came here for a good laugh. Gene always delivers!
@@antiangelofmusic I'm just politely making the point that Gene is successful and chances are, you are just a loser.
@@mikeraz594 75K ppl came to see Bob wipe the floor with Genes wig
Look at all these Weisenheimers complaining,,, WOW !! How sad can your life be,,,, Gene is the BRANDING MASTER,,... And what are these complainers.. EXACTLY that.. Complainers....😴😴
So much smug in one place...
you mean gene's hair right?
I would rather be bald , than have that steel wool hair that Simmons has.
Brillo pad head ass..
Rather be the demon 👿
Your jealous of gene like the bald guy 👴 lmao
Gene has such a positive passion for life. He knows what it means to struggle and to overcome the odds. He's got a great attitude for life and I wish him nothing but good things.
Damned right!
He's a douche
@@shawna4309
I'm sure he is. Some of these celebrities have such huge egos. He's very proud of the fact that he didn't drink or do drugs. But he probably slept with half the women in the US. I think because he has an ethnic background (he might be an immigrant or at least first generation) he's very proud. But he's also very arrogant as well.
@asteinmann
I agree with you a thousand percent. Especially the fact that he's charitable and cordial. Everybody wants to put the man down. If he doesn't represent the American dream, I don't know who does.
Gene has a terrible attitude. Bert keischer has a good story about him
At 8 minutes and this band is going to sign a contract that.. well yeah basically 95% of any money you make you never going to see.. and we're going to make sure we own you for the rest of your life
I have always hated the two bit sunglasses routine. Your the same dork or cool person with or without the glasses.
Time was not kind to Marty McFly..
Lee's Boots and that's kind of funny I'm not too sure which one you're talking about. LoL ✌👽
Oh I forgot about down with Webster. I remember when they weren't such huge stars.
Geez, that Bob guy made an idiot of himself, LOL!
20:13 Gene Simmons just lost the argument right here
Gene is at loss of words he is reaching for anything he can grab and losing
Gene Simmons: So much arrogance, so little talent.
Exactly! He's not overly talented in bass.
Yea that's why he's sold over 100 million albums dumbass.
@Andy Salter no he's not. I have heard little kids do better jingles than him.
@@billycain9890 it's called greed and reselling compilations over and over and over to dumb gullible fucks like you. money aint everything. just like money cant take care of the current bullshit going on...
@@mcqueenx75 Fuck off you little punk pussy talking shit from your Mom's computer
"Now kiss and make up." ;) Classic..
Gene Simmons claims to be a business man, but he's not! He has little impact on the Kiss Merch development but he claims to be the Mastermind, listen to Paul Stanley!
Joe from Germany
Joey Goebbels?
by the way bobs last statement was more rockstar then anything else on that stage
Albums/Vinyl Are Still The Best!!
I don't know this Bob but honestly he made a lot of valid points.
Gene Simmons= #HasbeenRocker
The Kurt comment was in bad taste.
gene's ad hominems are pretty weak, he was definitely on the back foot at times
Especially since Kurt was heavily influenced by Kiss, he probably would have been sad to hear it.
Never seen anything like this before.
Every single word Lefsetz has said has come to fruition. It’s borderline frightening how much of what he said relates to success in today’s world.
Gene loves to tout his business acumen and knowledge. But this debate proves that he really had no sense of how the landscape was going to change.
Simmons Records would still exist if Gene walked away and realized Bob was on to something, and that he was telling him what the new business model needed to be.
He should have taken the advice.
Gene Simmons destroyed this fool
If I signed to major label I would demand 1.5 million as an investment from the label. If it doesn't work out? hey! no harm no foul.
Gene is debates like that annoying street fighter player who just mashes the same button: Ad-hominim, Ad-hominim, Ad-hominim, Ad-hominim, Ad-hominim, Ad-hominim.
Gene is all about lining his pockets. we're 7 years on and I've heard nothing from Simmons Records or this Webster band. So time itself has proven Bob correct. Also when Gene was cornered he went to jokes and worse mom jokes. He's the best self hype man in the business.
Seems to be that competitive shows like American Idol choose, groom and supply songs for the latest Acts. Then like a freak accident came Justin Beiber..by posting his talent online. We need to be shocked a new way ! I feel the same excitement from Kiss that I felt for Barnum and Baily. A Bold Show You can cut loose , absorb and Have a Blast ! Thanx Kiss !!
Great!!
How'd that Simmon's Records work out for you, Gene?
Not sure U2 was from Belfast. But, if they weren't from Belfast, I guess the next great rock band won't be coming from Canada.
Your description is false - KISS hasn’t sold anywhere near 100 million albums. Youre repeating Gene and Paul’s invented PR hype. Check the RIAA stats (40-50 mil max, being generous) and international stats (5-10 mil max, being REALLY generous). Nowhere near 100 mil. Numbers don’t lie.
Kiss merchandise... An idea. A Gene Simmons toilet brush doll.
This jag off looks like the lil guy trying to start a war from the princess bride. “Inconceivable!”
Gene hair looks like Darth Vader helmet
Gene Simmons is a cliché of Gene Simmons
Gene got his ass handed to him, without question. If Gene was such a successful businessman, what happened to Tongue Magazine? Simmons Records? The big ditch KISS dug themselves into via horrific tax shelters in the '70s?
This Bob guy is awesome
Gene tried to shake his hand in the beginning. lol
Gene Simmons says I discovered Van Halen... he's quick what are such as Shalom artist
I was waiting for Gene to say "I know you are but what am I?" Dude is acting like a child. A child who knows how to capitalize, but a child nonetheless.
no gene right, and i think that would have been the right comment ..i would have
if you saw the original email exchange gene was even worse, couldn't handle that this guy had the audacity to have an opinion, went straight for the ad hominems and played the rock star card. 0 debating skills, called the guy a poopy head.
Six bands already did this. Envy, Kobra Paige, Lotus, and a few others who may have been at the wrong spot? Bickering in the lineups etc... Enduring these ton gues etc..
I give gene credit because he will actually stay and debate or argue, his fragile partner mr. Stanley would've run off the stage crying after 3 minutes
I've never heard of anyone named "Jane Simmons"
Why am I watching two old Jews roast each other? Lol
1st minute......awkward!!! Look up ( Bad experience with Gene Simmons, Bert Kreischer, Joe Rogan.)Gene thinks way too much about himself, humility goes along way!!
Neither Gene nor Paul have any humility, it's not in their DNA. Although, between the two of them I think Paul is much worse. I've heard way too many stories about that guy and most every one coincides with the next. If you haven't yet seen Paul's interview with Joe Rogan it's definitely worth a look. Most conceited, self centered guy, besides Gene, I've seen interviewed in a very long time.
hear Anthony Cumias Gene Simmons story...dude is a straight up creep
@@jamesthomison4356 thanks I will
@@shannongeorgiapeach76 there's a 4 and a half hour video of ant going off on gene but the initial story is in the first part
@@jamesthomison4356 ok I'm going to pull it up tonight. 😀
I'm not a big fan of Gene but I really hate music critics… Most of them can't play or sing and continually give bad reviews on new bands that have become huge worldwide.... eg The Rolling Stones, Black Sabbath, Gun's n Roses and many many more
Yup! Zeppelin TOO
I'm not sure if it was Gene or someone else who said, a long time ago, music critics like Elvis Costello because the look like him. This guy looks worse. More like the Sicilian from Princess Bride.
When will he pass, with the rest of his peers?
Every time Gene goes against someone with intellect, he loses.
Gene Simmons is not a likable guy. His whole “schtick” is unattractive. How he carries himself, his phony hair, sunglasses, outfit, etc..
Gene Simmons didn't discover Van Halen, what the fuck is he talking about? Van Halen was around before Kiss.
What is Wallace Shawn doing debating Gene Simmons?
his voice really sounds like kevin spacey
Pick your team any way you want. Some can see this and say that Gene is more successful and had the better comebacks, but Bob is more in touch with the American Musical Fabric than Gene. Bob has helped me gain a better insight into the business. He’s knowledgeable and dead-on with his predictions. I’m on Team Bob.
Unfortunately things r still old school in some ways n since Bob comes off like the schmuck in HS who got his ass kicked everyday it's hard to give his intelligence a chance style still wins first impressions n Bob has none. In any other case sad but in this case Bob is hard to root for.
reality shows don't work for a rock band, it makes them seem prefabricated and lame. just like raw meat overexposure can ruin you.
Paul is the boss of kiss runs everything
“ I have no idea what you do”.... to a lawyer..... who are actually the real people who make money in the music business without doing any hard work. Gene is out of his league here
People constantly bash Gene for wanting to work for more money for himself. But I would bet that 100% of everyone condemning him do the exact same thing! If you go to work, you aren't earning that paycheck for you and your neighbors, it's for you! Your family, your home, your stuff! And you are more than happy to get that raise or that promotion, because it's more money for you! The only difference in Gene Simmons and all of us is that he has made a lot more! And he has worked for it way harder than most of us. Why hate him? Jealousy. The same reason this Bob guy is on here arguing with Gene, he is a Jealous lowlife with a big mouth. If people want to hate someone, hate the people that are getting part of the check that all of us work for! Gene has failed a few times over the years, but he has tried many things, and succeeded at more than all of us. Just like his song says.. living well is the best revenge.
This video is from 2009, and people on here criticize Gene because his Simmons Records failed. So what, he is still GLOBALLY famous! Where is Bob? I have never heard of him in ever, I only watched this video because of Gene! Bob was just someone trying to ride on Gene's fame. Not as much money, not as much success, not as much sex, not as much fame! Of course Bob and most of the people commenting on here hate Gene. But everyone of us wish we on the same level. Gene, NEVER STOP ROCKIN'!!!!
NOBODY NOTICES THIS IS PAUL STANLEY NOT GENE SIMMONS?