Dhul-Qarnayn and the Christian Syriac Legend of Alexander - Dr. Tommaso Tesei
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- čas přidán 19. 03. 2022
- Tommaso Tesei is an Associate Professor of Religious Studies at Duke Kunshan University. Before joining DKU he was a Patricia Crone member at the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, and a Polonsky research fellow at the Van Leer Jerusalem Institute in Jerusalem. His academic interests mostly center on the emergence of the Islamic movement and faith tradition, and on the consequential establishment of new religious and political authorities in the context of the late antiquity of the Near East. His forthcoming monograph, entitled the Syriac Legend of Alexander’s Gate (under contract with Oxford University Press), examines a branch of apocalyptic traditions which are fundamental to understand the social and political setting from which the early Islamic community emerged and in which it shaped its identity.
References
The prophecy of Ḏū-l-Qarnayn (Q 18:83-102) and the Origins of the Qurʾānic Corpus
www.academia.edu/.../_The_pro....
Academia.Edu page
dku-cn.academia.edu/TommasoTesei
Books on Amazon
www.amazon.co.uk/Books-Tommas....
Van Bladel 2008 The Alexander Legend in the Qur'an 18:83-102
www.academia.edu/.../van_Blad.... - Zábava
This was absolutely amazing!
why ?
Excellent interviews
Keep it up 💯
What a great interview! I was most fascinated to hear how Tommaso's views are moving towards an earlier sixth C Neshana, and his wrestling with whether it may have included the water of life element found in the metrical homily and whether the DQ pericope reflects his reconstructed sixth C Neshana or the 7th redaction. When he mentions that the Neshana author removed existing elements (as well as combined them), I'm guessing this relates to his paper on 18:60-65 where he theorizes that it omits a failed attempt by Alexander to reach paradise beyong the edge of the world. Can't wait to learn more about Tommaso's book and future work on the subject and see what influence it has.
I meant to say it's in his other paper on 18:83-103 (both fascinating papers and available on academia edu)
Hello my friend! Thanks for this interview and it is wonderful stumbling upon your channel. Also are you an ibadi, I see that is in your twitter bio (just curious but cool!)
Yes I am! but more in theology and their trajectory in history. fiqh is another story
Wow.. that was very informative.
Also interview Thomas Alexander who has done extensive research on Syriac Christian lectionaries origins of Quran..
Oh my goodness! Your 🎙 sounds wonderful! You really bought a new one?
New laptop. Thanks for all your help though. You gave me the idea to do this from all of our talks.
@@skepsislamica Nice setup and drip too
Peace be upon Alexander Dhul Qarnayn, the monotheist conqueror chosen by Allah.
“After the death of Darius, Alexander [the Great] annexed the empire of Darius to his own kingdom, and ruled Iraq, Asia Minor, al-Rum, Syria, and Egypt. Following the death of Darius, he reviewed his army; it is said that he found the army to consist of 1,400,000 men; of these 800,000 were of his own force, and 600,000 were from the (old) force of Darius. It is reported that on the day he ascended the throne (as king of Persia) he said, "ALLAH granted us triumph over Darius and granted us the opposite of Darius's threats.” Alexander destroyed the cities, fortresses, and fire temples of the Persians. He slew their priests, and he burned their books and the archives of Darius. Appointing some of his aides as governors over the empire of Darius, he marched on toward India where he slew its king and conquered its capital.”
[Al-Tabari’s Tarikh, The Account of Darius [Dara] the Elder and His Son Darius the Younger. How He Perished, and the Account of Alexander (Dhu-l-Qarnayn), p. 94].
Allah is not real, sweetie
Yes, Mashallah!!! Our pious bisexual conquerer!!!
@@kyliereed200Conjecture
dhu al qarnain = Cornelius = Germanicus (Heli, Mathan) = Imran khan
He's very handsome 😍
Haha
When was this Syriac Romance of Alexander composed? 635AD?
It drew on material and ideas which existed before that according to Tommaso, in the full interview
@@skepsislamica when was the Huqoq 'alexander' mosaic (YT)
composed ? it is depicting dhul Qarnain on his road to damascus !
Terron makes a point that the majority of classical scholars believe Dhul Qarnayn to have been Alexander...this is not what i found it seems to be a split decision with many of the classcial scholars outright denying it. Mujahid and Imam Ali both dont mention anything but make comments on it.
I should have said a considerable amout. I know some have put forth the idea that it could be referring to an ancient Yemeni King who I believe is Karabil Watar.
It's really hard to say. The scholars of Tafsir have varying opinions on him, especially when they give dates of the Yemeni king predating the time of Alexander. Scholars have also said, applying the context of those asking the Prophet that the matter of Dhul Qarnayn should not be obvious or a known story, or else the answer would not require any Prophetic response and could be answered by anybody. Ibn Ishaq simply quotes various opinions from others, and ultimately says Allah knows best.
@@shak28100 I believe the Yemeni King theory should be thrown I the window. I know the Yemeni King the mufassirs are talking about (Karabil Watar) and it ain't him.
@@skepsislamica if Jews are asking the Prophet about Dhul Qarnayn, its common sense that it should be someone who is known and respected by jews. If you read Cyrus in Hebrew in the Torah, you can hear out the similarity to "Dhul Qarnayn". Cyrus is highly respected and his life had similarities to the life of Moses in the Qur'an. So I don't see why it should not be Cyrus which makes more sense due to the context of the verses (sabab al nuzul).
@@skepsislamica czcams.com/video/SkbVuAKUAYY/video.html
Very interesting, Mr. Poole I wonder how you don't see this as a theological problem for you. I have seen some Muatazilites say that it doesn't matter if it historically true as long as it is theologically true. Is that your view?
Also I was hoping for someone to go into the reasons for why the Quran influencing the Syriac legend is not likely as the dating is in question for the Alexander romance in Syriac.
I don't have an answer for you at the moment, but I hope the conversation continues on this subject because I'm very much interested in the topic and we can come to the best conclusion possible. Thanks watching and I appreciate your feedback.
@@skepsislamica In a similar boat as you. When I heard of the Musa and Khidr (as) story's similarities with other stories, it confused me a little but in that case I believe the parallels only occur in the tafsir that later identify these stories together and originally there is no connection. I am not as familiar with the Syriac Alexander romance so I haven't come to any conclusion personally on this one but definitely very interesting stuff.
Or maybe the Syriac Alexander legend is copying the Quran... for those that aren't aware the Alexander legend in its current form is from an 18th century manuscript! That is eleven centuries after the Qur'an. Some generously give this work a very early date of around the year 630 after hijra and even with this date the chapter of the calf which includes the story predates the Alexander legend by eight years since the chapter was revealed before the migration to Medina.
Note: The Orthodox opinion isn't that he's Alexander the Great! from the early days of Islam scholars have differed in regards to the identity of the dhul Qarnan and the most Orthodox opinion is that he wasn't Alexander!
See Farid Response's "Abdullah Sameer: Alexander is Dhu Al-Qarnayn"
czcams.com/video/taW1dn5Bn0k/video.html
Don’t be stupid, Aramaic is the language which Arabic derives from. They stole everything from the Aramean people, muhammad that pedophile took our Bible and perverted it into his own satanic needs and made others spread it to for their own gain. Imagine someone tempting you with lots of sex with virgins, alcohol, money and gold and then says you will get all of this in heaven if you do as I say, is that from God or from Satan?
Well, every evidence points to the fact that the Quran version is derived from the Alexander legends.
@@hans471 This is just assumption and conjecture on the part of Oreniatlists who want to disprove the Quran, dressed up as "objective academic research".
Not only the 18th century manuscripts have suffered interpolations regarding Alexander's journey to China by the admission of scholars which opens the gate for a possible influence from the Quran through interpolation and embellishments on the Syriac Romance.
Also the Syriac Romance mentions the Khazars invasion of 627 CE .... How is it possible that a "6th century" book mention a historical event that happened a century after ?
WESTERN ACADEMICS LADS
Alexander the Great is Dhul Qarnayn yo
drusus germanicus II
Watch: Farid responds
Did he come with something new?
@@skepsislamicahe provided a refutation to this
@@Notreallyhereanymore dhul Qarnain = germanicus (minor)
= andrew the elder = James the Just = Santiago
Farid responds with childrens noise 😂😂