Want To Ride Faster Off Road? You Should Know This
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- čas přidán 25. 10. 2023
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After more than 40 years cycling road bikes, I started to develop neck pain two years ago. I bought a RedShift Shockstop Stem and Seatpost last year and the pain went away. I’ve tried to get back to the non Redshift Shocksptop system this year but the neck pain came back fast. The Redshift Shockstop System is now my permanent setup on my bike and I love it !
So glad to hear you say this. Some of us mechanics tried to get the roadies on wider tires for 15 years and were looked at like we had 3 heads.
I added a redshift stem to my new Canondale Topstone and the difference was incredible. I also treated myself to a bike fit at my local Speciailzed shop which has made a massive difference to my whole ride. I’m 71 and I need all the help I can get but I’m now really enjoying my riding and knee pain, neck pain, numb left hand have all gone.
Thinking about the days (many years ago) of riding 22mm tubulars at 120+ PSI on chipseal roads. So much more comfortable on 30mm tires. I also appreciate having 34x36 gearing. My next splurge may be a suspension stem.
There are two claims here: rider fatigue is reduced when vibrations are reduced, and cycling at the same power output is faster when vibrations are reduced.
That rider fatigue is reduced seems that it ought to be obvious. The less your muscles need to counter-act vibrations, and the less impact your body absorbs, the longer you can sustain an effort.
The next claim is less obvious, but I'll attempt an explanation. Imagine cycling on cobbles using solid rubber tires on the stiffest frame you can get. Let's pretend rider fatigue is not an issue. The bike and your body will be bouncing around from the impact with every cobble. A large portion of the power you're producing is unproductive power; it is being used to shift your mass directions other than forward. That is a loss of efficiency because your mass does not have dampening to keep it going in the desired direction. Contrast this to using low pressure tires and a suspension system, and the greater portion of your mass will have a straight path forward.
Very well explained, thanks for the tldr👍
The redshift stem is a game changer.
I was time trailling back in 2000 onwards and remember riding a due carriageway and hitting a rough section of road. I could see my speed drop while putting in the same effort. I thought then there was something wrong with having tyres pumped up to 120 psi but as alwayscwe trust the industry and here we are changing it now to reduce vibration. I'm amazed it never got picked up years ago.
I have the Cannondale Topstone carbon with the kingpin suspension. It took a little getting used to, but I love it now
There is a place on my commute where the road surface changes from a rough road surface with little bits of gravel in it to a smooth tarmac and the difference is unreal. As soon as I hit that smooth surface I feel like I'm not even trying anymore.
Tragically it's only about 500 meters long on a 17 km commute.
Since I got my Gravel bike with big tires and suspension, I’ve been enjoying cycling a lot more again. I feel like it’s just as fast as my aero road bike but I feel at lot less fatigue and pain after the ride.
I got a new gravelbike yesterday and the first ride today was so good. I ride without a head unit and without navigation though. I am not that fast with it but it was super enjoyable and the 2,25" tires are perfect for the rainy weather
Every single tiny bump in the road is energy lost due to your bike having to "climb" that bump. One might think it's inconsequential but when talking about hundreds of such bumps in close proximity, they can add up quite fast. In visual (or geometric) terms, it's the difference between going from point A to point B in a straight line vs. zig-zag.
Or from a different perspective, it's the difference between riding a velodrome with hard and smooth tyres vs. knobby MTB tyres. This time, the bumps are on your tyres.
Another example of even smaller microscopic imperfections having a huge impact is computer heatsinks. Neither the heatsink's surface, nor your processor are absolutely perfectly smooth. So you add thermal paste in order to increase the surface area that heat can be transferred through.
Microscopic imperfections add up fast and matter more than we can possibly imagine.
But back to cycling.
So this is where the lower pressure comes in. With lower pressure, the tyre can deform and keep going straight rather than constantly keep climbing those bumps. And rolling resistance is the next point. With lower rolling resistance, you won't lose momentum to deforming your tyre. Think how much energy it takes to squeeze a balloon vs. a can. The same applies with tyres. Which is why if you're going to ride lower pressure tyres, then you'd better make sure you get some proper ones with low rolling resistance, otherwise that hard casing is going to just slow you down and you're better off keeping them well pumped.
The issue of vibration is dead on. It's true of audio equipment, Race Cars, etc. The aero scam is not a big gain for all the $$$. The issue of vibration is major. The depth on the issue with tires on road bikes is not over; it's only beginning. This is a major overdue topic.
They're going in circles on this topic. Basically the more mass that is not vibrating on the bike, the less inertia you're losing, the faster you're going. It's common sense. In contrast, imagine you're riding on buttery smooth tarmac and you're jumping on your bike, you're going to slow down.
Cannondale Slate, is the gravel bike with lefty suspension (before they released the Topstone)
I'm just glad that the rest of the cycling world is finally starting to catch up on Jan Heine of Rene Herse (and Compass before that). It might mean that at some point we'll have more supple tires at more reasonable price points.
I totally agree with this, especially for bikes targeting rough surfaces (like gravel bikes) or long distances.
I bought a new Topstone earlier this year and run it with 45mm tyres and a redshift stem and it’s given me a huge upgrade to both speed and confidence off road compared to my previous gravel bike. It’s both more fun and genuinely faster on rough surfaces than a more conventional gravel bike without suspension features and smaller tyres.
two points:
1. vibrations that aren't dissipated by the bike are dissipated by the rider (shakes you around, and you need to exert your energy to damp it and turn that kinetic energy into heat) = you spend more watts absorbing and dissipating the vibration instead of going forward
2. on rough surfaces, some of your power is going into moving the bike up and down over the rough surface instead of forward. A compliant bike mitigates this because the largest mass that needs to be moved over the rough surface is the rider, so suspending the rider improves efficiency
3. the pros don't need to worry about vibration so much. Think cobbles - at higher speeds, a rider will dance over the tops of the cobbles, falling fall less into the cracks between than a slower rider, and thus needs to spend less energy to drive their mass up and over the next cobble. You see this in pro marathoning as well - runners with higher cadence will see less torso bob than runners with lower cadence, which means more of their power is driving them forward and less is driving them up and down. Source: czcams.com/video/JCCmuPsfzmY/video.html
It’s really simple. Rough surfaces bounce you up. Every jolt up is essentially a braking action because you aren’t going as much forward as if it was smooth.
GT Grade floating stays, Salsa VRS
I first realized this skateboarding
soft wheels are faster on a rough surface. hard wheels are faster on a smooth surface. you just gotta get the right setup for what you are riding.
It's extremely noticeable on a skateboard.
I do wish that road riders would try mountain bikes some times, and vice versa. With the trend towards gravel, road riders think they are discovering new stuff with softer tyres and some form of suspension, and that it can actually be faster..! And mountain bikers scrambling their brains that smaller tyres and no suspension can be faster. Gravel is this middleground, and stuff from either end can work. I've recently done some big miles with a suspension seat post on a rigid bike. Where I don't need a dropper, I really want a suspension post. It was magic.
The roads around where I am are ok but not smooth at all. Rough bitumen and many imperfections. I recently replaced my Canyon Ultimate (25mm 95PSI tyres) with a Canyon Endurace (VCLS seatpost 30mm front 32mm rear 75PSI tyres). I expected it to feel more comfortable, but maybe sluggish with the fat tyres but that hasn’t been the case. I slammed the stem, so this effective Stack height is the same as the old bike. But the main thing is that my times around my regular 50 km route, are exactly the same, but it feels way more effortless. It just feels easier that encourages me to push harder on some of the rough bitumen. It doesn’t have to be off road for there to be benefits
On the other hand, there’s reasons why top velodrome riders are running those latex silk tyres at 200psi. Super smooth surfaces that we don’t get in the real world
The thing with wider tires = faster that people fail to understand us just basic physics. Wider tires run on lower pressures, which means that your body is vibrating less. Whenever your body is being rattled up and down, the energy to do that has to come from somewhere, there's no free energy! It comes from your legs doing the work. Your forward momentum which was generated by the watts that you're pushing through your cranks is now translated into this up and down movement, so it's lost, it's wasted.
It's always so funny when people swear by their 23mm tires with 12bar in them. I've met this guy the other day who was showing his triathlon bike with 23mm tires and saying how uncomfortable it is. I told him: go 28mm, you'll be more comfortable AND faster. But no, the tire has to be as hard as rock 🤯
I have a modern steel bike that I'm running with 32c tires and that is the smoothest ride I have on the road. It feels sluggish upon acceleration but I can keep speed like I do my carbon bikes. Now I have a carbon race bike that I'm running with 28c tires and one with 26c and although both feel faster, there is a bit more chatter in the ride, yet I'm maintaining the same speeds on all bikes. However, the carbon bikes do seem a little more efficient overall.
look up Rene herse's data they have been collecting for year regarding tires and going faster on rougher terrain. they are years ahead of this conversation.
I put CeeGees pads on my tri bike and went faster for longer. So cushy! And Vaast makes magnesium frames - they absorb vibration like crazy and are super light and strong. Love mine.
So lauf sieglait is? or is their lack of suspension damping make it useless?
Didn’t spesh say comfortable is faster? I think when they launched the new Roubaix
The Diverge is Specialized gravel bike. They are trying to position the Crux as a cyclocross/gravel bike and eliminating the Diverge.
"i've always found going long hard" that's what she said!
cannondale synapse???
so who would really benefit from vibration loss upgrades? commuters usually have comfy set ups, crit racers go faster than pro's, ppl on group rides arent out there to set records and all ride together, so maybe a person who races in a gran fondo?
I wouldn't want to ride a road bike set up to race the TdF in the same way I wouldn't want to ride a MTB set up to race DH.
Lots of people like me ride a DH bike in the bike park but not set up for racing, their suspension is set up to only come alive at race speed!
Many pro DH racers don't even ride a DH bike that much off-season and I wouldn't be surprised if TdF riders also have a more comfortable set-up for training etc.
get a mountain bike !!
You just made the argument to ride an XC mtb off road not a gravel bike.
Flo cycling is doing this with their wheels, so you can’t say nobody is doing it.