The Most Lethal Aircraft In General Aviation! The Beechcraft Bonanza
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- čas přidán 18. 11. 2023
- Today, your favorite general aviation aircraft mechanic is bringing you a special video. I wanted to talk about the Beech Bonanza widely considered to be one of the most dangerous aircraft to fly. But why? I hope to lend my insight as to why I think it's earned such a reputation as always thanks for watching.
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
![Beechcraft Bonanza [what's with the V Tail? Is it Safe, is it really a Doctor Killer?]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/H-9hI2aDCkk/mqdefault.jpg)
First it is high performance in flight characteristics and early buyers were not capable of piloting it safely hence many publicized deaths of professionals like MD's & Attorneys a great deal of them in the "split tail" verison. I flew many times with my Dad (a fighter pilot) that was also a well known instructor & type rated in more than 100 aircraft throughout his flight career. He said it was one of his favorite airframes along with the Beechcraft Stager Wing, P47D & F4E of Vietnam fame where he did 3 tours. When flown well with light touch on the controls he told me this was an absolutely Beautiful plane to fly within its envelope. R.I.P Dad, it was an educational 96 years.
Even the oldest 1947 V tail turns heads no matter what airport they are at. Our family has owned our 1964 S35 since 1970 and I plan on keeping it until the day I simply cannot fly myself any longer. Hopefully at 62 years of age myself, that will be many more years down the road. Even though it's approaching it's own 60th birthday next year, it still looks and flys better than anything new on the market today.
the danger you all have been in for 53 years:)
It’s one of the oldest and most produced plane so quantity of accidents will be greater.
I am a complete layman when it comes to planes, and I'm not even a trains; planes; automobiles kind of guy. A beechcraft just happened to be featured on a video about aviation mishaps and thought to myself (regardless of the content of the video) "wow, that is a beautiful plane"
I hope you have many years more of enjoying your plane, without incident! And, I hope I get to be a passenger in one some day.
I found the secret to owning and flying my Bonanza! Fly it by following the book. I flew my prized posession to the manufactures specs and never had a problem. It was a wonderful, bird that never failed me. It was comfortable, fast and above all, safe. Thanks for your vedio.
I got a F33A as my first plane, but I had 600 hours. I didn't have any retract time, time in type or instrument rating at the time so the first year insurance was expensive. By the second year I had plenty of retract time, time in type, ABS training and some incredible Bonanza instructors, plus the instrument rating so insurance was MUCH cheaper. Being used to 172s, 182s and Pipers I found the F33A to be much more solid, stable and of course quite a bit faster. It is a great plane and I am glad I was flying it in some pretty nasty IMC as it made it easy and actually fun. They have recently gotten crazy expensive though.
I love working on and flying the V tails especially but they are all fun. In my opinion, doctors and lawyers have been Bonanza Killers! I specialized in them for 11 years exclusively.
lol harsh
"Tom Turner, a respected safety advocate in the Bonanza community, analyzed NTSB records and found that between 1962 and 2007 there were an average of about three V-tail structural failures a year, most due to VFR flight into IMC, thunderstorm encounters, and airframe icing. "
Hey man, just wanted to say thank you for these videos. Really helped me finally decide to go back to school (at 21) to middle Tennessee state university for their A&P program as well as airforce ROTC. Can not wait till August
Congratulations and good luck, thanks so much for watching
They are not as dangerous as they are made out to be. Most of the accidents have been due to pilots not being properly trained on the complexities of the type. The same applies to most GA crashes.
Bryce, great video as always. I'm working on an Bonanza Aerobat right now at work and they are awesome machines.
I'd love to have a ride in an F33C.
You NAILED IT, nice video, thanks
Well said! I owned serial# 62 two times and since, a ‘60 M model and now have a fully restored ‘55 F model. Fantastic, classic planes that are safe and dependable, properly maintained and flown. Luckily, flight training and safety awareness is much better today than in the past. It’s also great that there is so much good aviation content on CZcams and other social media that can keep people learning and up to speed.
I was flying A 36's in the late 70's into the 80's, and yes they are a nice plane to fly provided you are PROFICENT
When I win the lotto, I'll buy one. Years ago I got to fly an A36 for a while. I loved that plane.
Richard Collins who flew the V tail Bonanza as a young charter pilot and later ones as well talked about his opinion on the Bonanza in regard to safety, he said he thought they were safe but in IFR they would roll into a graveyard spiral more easily than the average plane if the pilot was not a good instrument pilot. Any airplane that is has low drag will build speed very fast if in a dive so one needs to be a good pilot to safely fly them. I don't think the Bonanza is worse than any other clean aircraft in regard to safety but many pilots who bought them were less than highly proficient, look at the Piper Malibu, FAA grounded them at one point trying to understand why they were auguring in so often. Many times it was simple pilot didn't put the pitot heat on in ice, didn't end well.
I’m not a pilot yet. I’ve been wanting to do it for a while and I’ve been going over some initial research into training, safety, and fundamental skills. And so far it seems that it’s a lot like firearm safety (though more complex). If you follow the rules, are conscious of what you’re doing, and don’t push yourself beyond your limits, you should be fine.
With the exception of a poorly manufactured or damaged firearm rapidly disassembling itself, the only accidents I’ve seen were purely due to recklessness on someone’s part. It’s usually the shooter, but on one occasion it was a State Police instructor allowing a trainee on the range who clearly wasn’t comfortable enough with firearms to be in the program. The instructor was fired after the incident, which thankfully only ended in some blood to clean up and a painful recovery for the poor guy who shot himself in the leg while holstering. 🙄
Well, the real reason why they were dangerous in the old days of flying is because they were so fast they would rip the v- tail off. Dr's are the only ones that could afford them that's why they were called V-tail Dr killers. After many deaths there was a mod to help prevent that from happening. They were fast and many couldn't show them down on landing... it had its issues but more true is the pilots that were flying them shouldn't have been in them. Great plane.
This is exactly right. The "Doctor killer" thing is backwards. Doctors were Bonanza killers.
100%! I think some time during the 1980s Beech introduced a kit to strengthen the V-tail. Afterwards ripped off tails were not a problem anymore.
Very much enjoyed this upload. I have always felt many of the crashes in question were, using the terminology of the Army Aviation Accident Board, pilot error. Way, way back when I began, I listened to War 2 AAC pilots complain about some aircraft. But in the end, they would concede that training and time were the answer.
This video definitely grabbed my attention. I think the phenomena has continued with other high performance/complex aircraft. I've seen well heeled individuals turn Cirrus and Piper 300s, etc., into airplane parts donors. Anyway, great video!
I'm planning another similar video for the cirrus. There is a flight school near me that has turned a few of them into parts aircraft.
@@brycebuildsit I bet!!! They seem to be everywhere, and I've been contemplating trying to find a nice g2 or g3 myself. I do think about the leap from a 172 to a Cirrus. Looking forward to seeing that video. Keep up the good work!
I've owned 3 B35 Bonanza's, bought my first one at 22 years old with 120 hrs total time, which I did after selling my first plane a 1969 Cessna 150M, which I bought after 25 hrs of time. That being said, 2800hrs+, a BS from ERAU in Pro Aero and Engineering, and nearly 30 years of aircraft ownership later, my thoughts, Maintenace has always been the number one culprit, then over confidence, then stupidity. Now it's not Dr. and Lawyers smoking themselves, its youtube "influencers", get a lot of money, buy a plane and think they are invincible. Just saying. Nice Video.
I love your candor. My dad was a great pilot who had many thousands of hours in the pilots seat. Navy and civilian. I really get what you said about pilot competency and the aircraft.
A funny story will illustrate. During the Korean war, the US Navy brought back many pilots who flew prop driven aircraft. But then the were flying jets. The Grumman F9F Panther was much faster and harder to fly. Dad was often commissioned by the squadron commander to go find a pilot who had lost his way over Mexico on a training run. Why? It was more airplane than the pilot could handle. Fast, and you had to be on your toes to fly it competently. Maybe a bit like the Bonanza?
Aviation prices??? Glad I got out of aviation in the 80’s when I was paying $40.00 an hour for an instructor and a 152.
2009 I was paying 115 an hour a 150 and the instructor. It seems to have doubled since then.
Job people seldom can afford good stuff. Business owners do.
My dad had two Bonanzas….a straight 35.. and @ 59 K35…we flew Bonanzas from 68 to 90… never had a problem with the aircraft themselves….just minor avionics…those planes were bullet proof…I still have the original paddle prop from the 47 Bo…oh..and by the way..my dad was a doctor…🤣🤣.
The Market Prices on these are still very expensive with the standard Avionics on some models and they have been available to purchase as of the older ones they still hold their value. . At no damage history.
Maybe it is because the early V tail planes had ADs on structural failure.
Beech 23 series are said to be comfortable and handle well but they are slower. Maybe Beech was trying to tell us something about training.
Anything to say about the IO-346 engine? Can it be swapped with an IO-360?
I am only not a fan of the 346 because they were not produced for a long time, so parts are hard to get. The 320 and 360 have been made for so long that you can still get everything and cheap. I'm sure someone has an STC to put a 360 on a 23, and tbh it might be worth it for the cost savings and extra power.
In the 60s, you probably trained in a Cessna 150. The major problem was the loose nut behind the controls - in other words, pilot error.
They've been flying since the late 40's.. Plenty of time (DECADES) to rack up fatalities. It's not inherently dangerous. Only big issue I know of when the V tails were shedding their tails in heavy turbulence, but that issue has been fixed.
Well said
Doctors killed Bonanzas. Now Cirrus are killing techies. It is the attitude not the airplane as you have said. I have had my F35 for 30 years. It is the easiest retractable gear plane I have ever flown. I have time in the C172RG, 177RG, 182RG, 210, 17-30, PA28R,32R and M20 also for comparison.
JRAviation's Cirrus has been grounded for ten months because the stupid parachute needs a repack every ten years. Waiting on parts, $28k price tag. Cirrus is now Chinese owned (great customer disservice). I would rather get a Diamond.
@@minnesnowtan9970 unfortunately this is an issue across GA. Parts and the Labor to install them have shortages all over the place.
I think now between insurances and flight training we're doing a better job or progressing pilot skill at a safe rate. Also we have only about half as many GA pilots as we did 30 years ago so we are left with the most dedicated half.
Bonanzas have a third jacking point mid fuselage, takes a threaded insert. Much more stable than a tail weight
They do indeed, but I was using the owners Jack's and tail weight. All mine are at another airport an hour away, and I just didn't want to make the drive. Plus, they are set up for a 210 right now, so I'd have to break them down.
Before one blames an aircraft for being lethal, one must investigate every accident it ever had and determine whether it was the fault of the aircraft or the pilot.
That is the theory why so many crashed, same applies to Cirrus. When Cirrus first came out they were a VAST improvement over the older, metal aircraft. Many crashed in Cirrus too, many of the same crowd in fact, doctors, lawyers those with low time and not much experience. The fix was a different pilot population. And Cirrus addressed the issue by putting together the best training in the industry for new owners. Bonanzas got old and the new owners were guys that were not doctors and lawyers, they were retired airline pilots and others with a lot less cash to put into an aircraft. So they got them cheaper as used planes. Plus the V-tail had a fix. Not everyone is crippled by going from a slow trainer aircraft to a high performance aircraft. I went from a light sport aircraft as my training plane to a Cirrus SR22T. That was 8 years ago. My next (and last) aircraft will be a Velocity XL5, even higher performance.
One of my owners has a velocity XL and absolutely loves it. His is naturally aspirated, but it will still cruise at 225kts
@@brycebuildsit Impressive. I have not flown it yet. I hope in January for the pickup.
Headroom? We have a 182 and in the Bonanza I hit my head just sitting !
In a Bonanza or Baron, there are several things that can cause a headroom problem. Year model, model seats installed, how much and what type of cushioning is used in both the seat bottom and back, and lastly the size of the person sitting in the seat. Most of the more than a 100 Bonanza's and Baron's I've sat in with this problem could be attibuted to far too much cheap foam cusioning in the seat bottom and back. Another factor can be the positioning of the seat. Too far forward and you will have a problem because of the shape of the upper fuselage in that area. Moving the seat back, as well as adjusting the pedals back, can help.
The Beech is a great plane; nothing crashes more than the little plastic Cirrus
I'm actually planning a video for the cirrus there is a flight school close to me that has woded up 3 of them.
The Bonanza is an all time favorite. Bad pilots been wadding them up for decades. My Cirrus is a fine plane as well. When I’m flying the kids, the one extra tool in my bag makes a difference.
But it's such a handsome plane! How can this be?
The Bonanza is a fine airplane. But you can't treat it like a Caravan. I think some owners over many years have bought an airplane with increased capability and performance and flown it as if it were they as pilots that had increased capability. As a result they exceeded their own performance envelopes--more willing to enter IMC, etc. It also has a tricky gear retract control that can be lethal on go-arounds if the pilot doesn't plan for the eventuality on every approach. And given the slickness of the Bonanza, go-arounds are always a possibility.
A girl with few hours has just killed herself and father flying a just bought Debonair. I will never understand why people believe to be better pilot then they are and pretend to fly too fast and complex aircafts without the flying skill they deserve. What a shame....
You commented at 4:25 about flying in "severe weather like thunderstorms...." That doesn't make the Bonanza any more lethal than any other type, it makes the pilot an idiot and his judgment questionable. I'm not a pilot but I have flown a lot in GA aircraft with others who are, and most of that time was in a V35 Bonanza. Its performance is head and shoulders above the other planes I've been in (C172, C182, PA30, PA18, PA28) except for the King Air, which is a whole 'nuther animal. It behooves the pilot to work his way into a high performance airplane and develop his skills. Any airplane can be lethal otherwise. AOPA statistics show that the aircraft itself is no more dangerous than others in its class, and the majority of Bonanza crashes are attributable to pilot error.
I think Bryce's meaning was that doctors and lawyers being the typical egotists they can be, think because they have the money and the best single engine airplane made, they can go anywhere in any weather because they are experts at everything. That's also been my experience during my 55+ years in the business.
@@s35bonanzapilot84 Yeah, I get that, but end game is nobody, regardless of means, can let their ego overrule their training and common sense and live through it, regardless of what kind of plane they fly. As for doctors: I was a RN for 37 years, so yeah, once you board their ego, there's not much room in the cabin for anything else.
The Bonanza is an issue only if you are a Doctor. And, by the way, the biggest issue is wing loading. Bonanza…20.2 lbs/sq ft, 172…13.8 lb/sq ft. If you get slow and pull, the Bonanza will flip over on you in an instant.
I agree with everything in the video but would like to expand on why I think the Bonanza is so well known as a doctor killer. Doctors generally learn to fly at a later age than the general population because of the amount of training they do to become practicing doctors. The typical pilot starts earlier and works their way up from simple training aircraft to the Bonanza in increments. The typical doctor starts later and, as was discussed, has the bucks to buy a Bonanza when they get their license. The danger is compounded by the fact that some doctors, though certainly not the ones reading this, are poor students and don't take training well. They become used to being the ultimate authority in their professional life and are quite sure they know more than their twenty-something CFI. Was I was training all the CFIs were, of course, anxious to rack up as many hours as possible. When a certain doctor showed up on the school schedule the flight instructors suddenly became scarce. When I got my first flight physical the examing doctor, a local orthopedist, asked if I wanted to see a picture of his plane which, of course, I did. He showed me a picture of a Bonanza, snapped in half, and resting in a tree.
I was asked by a potential airplane partner, "What plane if you could have anything?" I was shocked at the speed that F33 exploded out of my mouth.
I have V-tail time, so I know a little about it, and don't want the V tail.
I don't know that a lack of skill is the biggest problem. It is cramming that much arrogance into such a small plane doesn't leave room for any rule following notions.
The owner of this one loves it, performance is top notch, and it's comfortable. The only annoyance is C.G. unfortunately he's going to be putting up for sale due to a family medical reason.
It was called the doctor killer for a reason.
I added this comment before I watched the video, by the way.
I do the same thing all the time. It was still a good comment, though. Most of the time when I do it I ask a question they answer in the video lol
@brycebuildsit It was also a good video. That's why I watched it, and gave it a thumbs up.
I've never figured out why pilots are so slow to engage the autopilot.
I can save you A$$
I've got a simple wings leveling autopilot in my 1975 C172 and I REALLY like to have that option, it works..
I have been flying for 20 years and following accidents for that long. Bonanzas are incredibly well built aircraft and they have a much higher accident rate that I can explain. I know that it is not on my next airplane list no matter what. Part of the problem could be that 90% of them have big bore Continental engines and they are not aging well, so to speak...
The reason for the rate of accidents lies with the people that fly them. The Doctor killer is one bought by those with an inflated ego and will not listen to anybody and certainly will not think they cannot cope. A bit like they are at work.
Interesting to see this video after the accident of the youtube girl.. so sad.
I made the video about a month before that accident happened. I've lost too many friends to aircraft accidents. It is the worst thing to hear that someone lost their life in our hobby.
@@brycebuildsit yes and it wasn't her fault, FAA need to re check some CFI's parameters and with more reason on this critical airplanes.
@@brycebuildsit You said it well in this video. 'easy to fall behind the aircraft', that lady was often behind this aircraft in her videos. Its so sad that nobody ever told her she wasn't anywhere ready for it. RIP.
Think of how many doctors there would be if there were no Bonanza 's dentist would buy A Money.
At least you did not visit the most lethal 'restaurant' (mcdonalds?) in the world.
I think Taco Bell might be worse. At least it feels that way after more than 1 taco
Let's not forget that a lot Doctors back in the Day were heavy drinkers. 😮
Glug Glug Glug Burp! Whats dat u say sonny?
12 hrs from bottle to throttle…..🤣🤣.
Guys with more money than talents is the problem.
Some of my best customers had more money than brains.
I just got the same Be F33 A with all new avionics, engine and new 3 bladed Prop. But everything you say is not true when I compare it to my Mooney 201 which I had for 35 years. Try for instance fly out of a 2000 ft Runway with 4 People and luggage an full fuel. No way with the Bonanza. I did it for 35 years with my M201J. Also the Be 33 has very limited room and view in front with the 2 Steering wheels. You have a hard time to see all the instruments and switches. Big difference to the Mooney.What is more striking is the speed and Fuel flow with the IO470. With 150 kts. and 14 Gal. average fuel, the Mooney used only 8,5 Gal. Big difference when Avgas is around 12 $ a gallon where i live. The only advantage for me is that my wife can get easier into the Beech. By the way i did fly my Mooney twice across the atlantic.
I didn't do a good job elaborating, I agree with you. What I was eluding to is that the money also carries 4 people but is faster with less fuel burn. So why do people choose the Bonanza, and the answer is exactly what you said much more power and much more comfortable, especially out of high altitude airports. Thank you for your insight and have a happy holidays.
😮😮
Lancair may be more deserving of that title
You got me there
Your step son looks like your older brother
He can definitely grow a better beard then I can.
Low wing or no wing !!
Doctor Killers
Isnt this the guy that reviews fast food?
Whomst me? Or someone else. I've never reviewed fast food just ate entirely too much of it.
@@brycebuildsit you look like reviewbrah youtuber
Wish I had the viewership numbers he does I could afford my own aircraft
@@brycebuildsit one day you may. 🤩😃
the V tail bonanza is a high performance slippery single engine complex aircraft.......nobody should be flying an airplane like that unless they have an instrument rating and 500 hours total time PIC
Agree 100%
*reads this after learning to fly in a v tail bonanza as a student pilot and just crossing 500 hours total time with 450 of those hours being complex high performance.* 🫣
I disagree with you in the fact about the plane being so lethal.... I believe the biggest problem is that people want the plane because it is a "BONANZA" and they are not ready for the plane... Others just get complacent and let the plane get a head of them... I would never in anyway blame the plane.. I blame the pilots and the Training on the planes. Have been in many Bonanza's and never near a crash or incident, because the ones that my friends have, they are well maintained, and the pilots are very experienced. This plane is not for a Low Time Pilot, and it gets a bad reputation because of Bad Pilots not wanting to take the blame. I have the Beech C24R Sierra and it is a very nice and comfortable plane (and has a 2" wider cabin than the Bonanza, but not nearly as fast... But it uses a lot less gas as well.
Ah, the forked tail Doctor killer. ;)
DOCTOR TERMINATOR
Wrong. Bonanza is not the "best performing aircraft," it isn't "stable," and it isn't "forgiving." Too much can go horribly wrong to list in a CZcams comment, so I'll limit myself. 1/ Fuel management involves switching between 3-5 tanks at specific points in the flight. Drain the aux tank at the wrong time and center of gravity will be thrown off. Each tank has quite a bit of unusable fuel and the chance of a fuel starvation crash due to "unporting" is increased significantly if the plane is ascending, descending, or banking. 2/ Bonanzas are notoriously unstable in IMC. Many crashes have occurred when a pilot in IMC didn't watch the instruments like a hawk, since the plane is prone to "spiral divergence" that can result in an unrecoverable death spiral. That's enough examples. The plane was design for speed and that's all it does well. But I'll say "Good PR job, Beechcraft" for blaming all these design flaws on the pilots.
If you watch the video again, you'll notice I said in the 50's and 60's when it was produced, it was one of the best, not "the best." Also, I said it's reasonably stable. My point is that the aircraft is not any more dangerous than most others of the time. However, because it was a status symbol, pilots who had lots of money went out and bought despite not having the skills for it yet. Our modern-day equivalent would be a cirrus (in my opinion). The video is not meant to praise the Bonanza or make it sound like the best aircraft ever made that title goes to the Saratoga (again in my opinion) I only wish to share my thoughts on how it earned a reputation as a doctor killer. Thank you for your comment and have a happy holidays.
@@brycebuildsit My personal airplane is a 1948 Navion, which was the same weight and had the same engine as the contemporary Bonanza. Unfortunately Navion didn't sell as well as Bonanza and eventually went out of business because it wasn't as fast. Yet the Navion is infinitely more stable and forgiving and performs better on virtually all measures except speed. I agree that the Cirrus SR20 and SR22 are the modern-day doctor killers. Like Bonanza they are designed with low drag and low lift so they are very fast but dangerous for GA pilots, especially in the landing pattern. That's why the FAA required a full-aircraft parachute for certification.
There is a Navion at one of the local airports I do work at. It's been sitting under the hail shed for 4 years. Breaks my hart, I quite like them.
@@brycebuildsit Is that abandoned Navion in Texas? If so it might be the orphan featured on a "Just Plane Silly" CZcams episode. That plane is at a point where it might not be worth the owner's money to bring it back to flight worthiness. I bought my Navion after it had been abandoned in a hangar for 5 years. Gaskets and seals were leaking all over and all the mechanical parts with rubber elements (carburetor, engine-mounted fuel pump, etc.) had to be overhauled or replaced. Pricey repairs, but worth it!
Your comments about the fuel system are only applicable to 1960 M models and earlier with standard tanks.
Glide factor like a potato
A whole sack of em, still better then a cirrus though
Yeah, the C-210 is better
I'm partial to the 206 since you don't have to deal with the gear.
Dangerous pilots not airplanes
The V tail was known as the Doctor Killer ....
If you spent as much time and money on your pilot training and aviation education as you did on your tattoos, I might consider actually flying below FL 180 on the same day and in the same state in which you are flying.
I wear my passion on my right arm. You unfortunately wear your ignorance. I am an A&P and IA, and I've been a maintainer for 10 years. My tattoos cost less than 10 hours of flight time. I will make no assumptions about you, but I will caution you to live as you call others too.
29 seconds, 👎👎 you REALLY decide to record and INCLUDE a food stop?
🤣🤣 it's my video. I will record and include whatever I want.
Title is clickbait, but doctors were bonanza killers, and it's not "widely considered ... dangerous" in the slightest.
Definitely not click bait. In my opinion, clickbait is when the title has nothing to do with the video. Is the thumbnail grabbing your attention, of course? It has to, or nobody would watch any of my videos. Also, I agree doctors are bonanza killers. The aircraft is labeled a doctor killer, a reputation it most certainly does not deserve.
worst paint job ever
just looking at the livery alone k1llz me from boredom
Just dumb…
Please shave. You can't grow a mustache.
I can grow an incredible mustache and do every November.
Ridiculous title.
I only made it 34 seconds into ur bad video before I turned it off. Total click bait title and no interest whatsoever in watching u order food. BORING!!!!!!!
Cry harder