Fire Alarm Installation in London | Thomas Nagy
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- čas přidán 22. 11. 2018
- A fire alarm system installation in a central London building: I take you through a walk around and explain factors for pricing.
There is a specific fire alarm setup we have to stick to here but I deliberately haven’t given all the details here otherwise it will get too confusing for everyone watching. Keeping it super simple.
Here are the specs:
* Panel to be sited by the front door
* Smoke detection on each level
* Break glass on the exit to each flat and by front door
* Emergency lighting on each level and outside front door (1 lux min)
* Emergency escape signage to be fitted
* Heat detector inside every flat (must be able to be discriminated from general alarm)
* Sounder in each flat to be 75db at bed head
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#firealarmsystem #pricing
A few battery operated smoke detectors and a couple of rolls of glow in the dark tape should do the trick.
That made me laugh more that it should have
Remember to take the batteries out so they don't keep going off.
Lar Ada-Koski what grade of system have they specified or are they leaving that to you.
You forgot the cigarettes to test them
We put in wireless heat detector/sounder units (Zerio Plus) to get the sounders close enough to get adequate dB levels at the bed head without running cables through privately owned flats. We also put in the tiny LED emergency downlighters leaving the existing fancy luminaires in place.
If it's London, £10k...anywhere else, a grand.
I like the brass light fittings and it seems a shame to remove them.
I usually work on a fixed price per point with a fire alarm. So in this case I’ve got it to about 10 points, with smokes and call points plus a panel and sounder bases. Based on that the alarm would be roughly £1800. Not London weighted mind you.
A two wire fire alarm systems nice and easy for this size installation. Smoke heads and sounders work off the same radial circuit. Not many fp runs to pull in. Not too expensive either. Addressable systems are best but depends on how much the client wants too spend. If your maintaining the emergency lighting after the installation I recommend getting the fittings that work off a remote so you can just walk round and put all the fittings into test with a click of a button. Nice and easy little earner 👍.
Client should have a Fire Risk assesment for the building, that would recommend minimum Fire Alarm system required and Emetgency Lighting
Addressable one loop panel, probably fire class as they're open protocol and you can get the program online, then just wire a ring in and out of each flat and give each room it's own zone and point description. And sounders can sit on the loop so no need for an independent sounder circuit.
Great video Thomas enjoy all your videos
Keep up great videos 👍🏻
Why not use an EMS Firecell? A lot less effort as no cabling other than mains supplied Panel and RCCs, does require more maintenance in the long run.
Hey Thomas, twinflex pro is good. I would also recommend a Kentech panel or notifier. Notifier is literally a good system and has lots of great features. You can even get detectors what detect carbon monoxide and sound the alarms to evacuate the building. Or a gent vigilon would work well.
Twin flex pro system / self testing maintained emergency lights plus illuminate stair wells👍🏻👍🏻
Kentec or advanced Apollo fire system which each flat/communial floor having its own zone, in a vandal resistant box to stop silencing/disablement. With call point at each door
With it being 4 flats spread over 4 floors (basement,ground,first,second floor) should it not be covered by part 6 also?
The method to calculating the price for this is thinking of a figure, opening the front door and multiply said figure by the amount of seagulls you see.
Why dont they use pir sensors in communal areas instead of push buttons(in general)??
I usually fit ctek panels with apollo accessories. For the lights I think round led bulkhead with emergency and microwave sensor would be best. Im in Birmingham and I would say about £2200
Thanks for all your videos. Can the emergency lights be connected directly to the fire panel, to come on when its siren does off.
Fit a FireCell wireless system. All wireless multizone system just right for flats.
Addressable system all day long, don't forget call points in the escape routes. We do the maintenance in lots of places with conventional systems and the amount of call out charges for us to go and reset the panel slowly piles up as no one ever knows who sets it off.
As for the lights, we normally blank the switches and fit disco fittings with sensors and battery packs.
64hr x your hourly rate + materials + 20% = 1 million
TOM have a look at alarm sense kit, its alot easier to install sounders/smokes/mcp's all on zones. no running extra sounder cables
Do you really need to install detectors from the panel inside the flats? Usually, I install a grade A (LD2) system on communal areas and a grade D system if not already in place at each flat.
I would do smoke and mcp on each landing, smoke in each flat/mcp optional by the entry door/and replace existing lights with normal 2D maintained ones. Also I'd go for a "Kentec Syncro" panel. Makes life a lot easier.
Two men 3 days, using a CTEC conventional. Price for call points on exit route aswell as is standard in regs.
Use sounder bases for the smoke detectors meaning every flat has an sounder to pass a desabell test. Standard bulk heads lights above each staircase change the two by the door for intergrated lights. Nice little job
its decibel.
About tree fiddy.
Alf Hammond I nearly woke my wife laughing at that. :) nice one
Unsure on the pricing part but i'd be installing Apollo devices and an Advanced MxPro4 Fire Panel, should take 2 men around 3 days including the commissioning
Hi tom, a great product I use is by kosnic, it’s an dome emergency light with microwave sensor, you can adjust lux, sensitivity, time and if it goes back to dim. Find they work really well in the setup you have just looked at. Fire alarm I usually go for is the zeta infinity ID2, used to fit the fike twin flex pro, but for the same price you can have a completely addressable system, very handy with flats so people can read the panel and identify exactly which head as activated as you can write a description, which I find cuts down on people just silencing the alarm👍🏻 Also side note down where I am the fire brigade prefer the alarm in the flat to be a heat alarm to cut down on false activation due to cooking etc
Mark, you are the only person to identify smoke detectors and the nuisance cooking alarm or more commonly known as "burnt toast" alarm. In communal situations or motel units, I use a system which has a local alarm with local isolate before it reaches true "fire" levels, which then generates a general evac alarm status. Available with Ampac, Wormald, Guardian and many other systems. Peace of mind and prevents tenants from trying to defeat an alarm system.
It would be good if u put an c tec fire alarms in
I would just tell the owner a number. If he gets happy, tell him I was joking and upping. If he has more of a panic, tell him I’m joking and lowering.
You funny guy, fully loaded with jokes :)
If I was the owner I'd tell you to fuck off. I never deal with smart arses.
👌
Emergency escape routes including stairs require 1 lux on the centre line.Please see BS 5266 and BS EN 1838
Just curious, im doing lvl 2 electrical installation at college how oftern do u use metal trunking, conduit? As i find it a pain in the ass to bend and thread
Only ever fitted two twinflex systems. Nothing but trouble compared to conventional. Been back to replace detector heads times and one of the panels. Only about 5 years old.
4 days work for a spark and a mate £2k, circa 10 alarms £300, circa 6 emergency microwave fittings at £65, around £250 for cable, containment & sundries. Takes off the top of my head price to just shy of £3k before VAT. Anything lower you're kidding yourself on - would love to know what your price is!
I just did a similar job, the materials were £1100 and It took 6 days so I would say £3000 +VAT would be spot on. Your spot on
To be honest, id fit an apollo or hochiki system in there. Heard the systems are easy to wire and very flexible
Fit a c-tec xfp panel, Apollo xp95 devices, and the c-tec hush buttons in the flats
C-tec Alarm-sense panel with Apollo AS detectors, MCP's and Base Sounders
Noticed the house number was that Baker St.? If so how is Holmes and Watson??
I way prefer this type of video rather than the professional style :)
Thomas just be aware of new reg for fixing fire alarm containment fire rated fixings systems are required to stop cables falling down from ceilings and snagging emergency services they have attributed the deaths of Two firemen who became caught up in cables that were in plastic trunking. They have now dealt with this problem in 18th edition regs that start in January 2019, worth a read beforehand as it may affect cost.cheers .ps video quality and sound is great for what you are doing or will you want to be Mr Director
It needed fire rated fixings anyway as per ammendment 3 of the 17th edition as its a means of escape
They dealt with it in the last amendment of the 17th edition. Regulation 521.10.202 covers it, in the 18th edition it's Regulation 521.11.201. Under the the 17th, it's escape routes only (which applies in this scenario). Under the 18th it's the entire installation.
James Daly nothing new about that mate... most people been doing that for years
Fire resistant fixings have been required on fire alarm systems for decades as a means of maintaining the integrity of fire rated cabling when subjected to fire.
4k for the lot .
Microwave polo ELs with a nice little EDA system in and out in a morning
Do not start any works before checking Ze and Zs values from the landlord consumer unit and that needs 30 ma rcd protection to all new circuits?
Is it not smokes in communal areas & minimum 1x heat in each apt + sounder in bedrooms
5 days 1 guy
Def twinflex pro
All in trunking
Are you adding a independent detector in each flat as well as the communal detectors?
Sensor lights one on each floor plus extra in entrance and a emergancy light for the outside of the door
1 break glass in entrance and one in basement flat
Labour + materials 1800
5 days? And Twinflex. Wow.
About 4-4.5k , single loop analogue addressable, non maintained em lights and assume that flats have existing pt.6 protection and HD with sounder bases ion lobby of each one.
What's the usual daily rate In London for trades..!
Standard loop system with heat detectors within the hallway of each apartment , and smokes on each communal landing , surface mt2 trunking throughout using safe D30 clips within the trunking to clip the cable inside the trunking , emergency lighting , hopefully wired in 3 plate so you have the feeds at each light , would swapnthe existing pendants to micowave sensor amenity emergency lights that dim down to 10% so only lights that need activating upon entry are switches on , NVC lighting have a good range ,blank of the existing light switches , would say £3.5k - 4K , your probably going to have trouble gaining access to each property to install the heat detectors so allow for additional visits , and it looks like west London region so parking charges daily !! Also carry out a ECR on existing lighting if you are to re-use
2x guys 4x days would leave existing fitting and provide none maintained
led fitting s with key switch
Fire alarm
would provide twin flex pro 8 zone panel so flat s could be on there own zone with external indicator above front door and zone diagram £1400 plus vat
What system are you fitting? Zoned or addressable
About 2 weeks work to get in in nice and neat
What did you quote for installation Tom ????
Ems fire cell
Ems will even pre program it if required and it's then addressable system and each flat can have it's own zone
The video quality was fine! Is it not permitted in the UK to use separate emergency lights? Seems a shame to get rid of those cool old hanging lights.
Dave O you can use separate ones, just quicker/easier to replace fittings.
Apollo Xp95 equipment and a Kentec Syncro As
Are you BAFE? Im looking at getting this added to my company.
As I’m always too nervous installing fire alarm systems always had the notion that you had to be certified in the relevant field.
Did you plan it your self or working off an design?
Cheers
Has a fire risk assessment been done by a 3rd party? If so what category system have they advised? Normally just cover escape routes with afd + mcps. 65db throughout and 75 at bed heads. Install fire cell wireless system compliant to EN54-25. Swap lights for emergency fittings. I’d price job at 5k for 5 days work.
Thomas says 'it's up to you what system you want to do'.
Then he says 'got to put detectors in each flat'.
Usually each flat is 60min fire zone. Each flat would have a smoke/heat alarm system (mains interlinked). Then a 3 storey building (basement flat is not part of this communal area) would have mains interlinked smokes in the communal area, (Not fire panel) ,additionally a smoke venting system to a top floor window.
Don't forget you need an emergency light on the outside of the fire exit to comply with BS 5266.
sorry i didnt realise the pc brigade were here so fast.
when i say 'it's up to you what system you want to do' - i mean brand, its your call; everyone uses a brand they like.
They want a panel system, not just interlinked alarms, their words not mine - its in the fire survey.
Bang in a 6 to 8 zone panel ! 1 zone per flat (set to heat) A zone for smoke detectors with sounder bases in the communal areas ! A zone for call points at each escape route ! Presence detector Emg drum lights (link out time lag switches ) also remember to fit photo cell emg at front door and or other exit minimum 1 lumin. Remember that that landlords cu needs to have a spare way for the new fire panel supply. Approx price all in for this stand alone install is £4000. If multiple sites to be done ... then reduce to £3600 and get some help in .
Your on about emergency lighting built in which requires a permanent feed probably only a switchwire at those old ceiling roses so first of a full lighting rewire required.aico detection through out jobs a good un
Link out the switch wires, fittings are now permanent live
Around 2500 - 4500?
What system did you end up putting in
Just replace existing light fittings with robus led emg bulkheads .. you’ll need a call point at the main exit and a sounder probably on the 1st floor ..i would just use white FP and just clip it surface .. 1 man. 4 days
Hey Tom#1
Does UK code require CO detection as well on each level?
Only in rooms containing a fuel burning appliance ie boiler
I would put an esp fire alarm system in, because they’re easy for small properties and that building doesn’t look massive so ye
What about call points?
Are you finding landlords are fitting better fire protection systems now following on from Grenfell? Not sure what the legal requirements are on systems, I guess they have to have them in HMOs etc.
C H depends on how many floors and or rooms the property has
C H , I’ve found building control to be harsher these days.
Had a few jobs now where they’ve had to have sprinkler systems installed on ground floors because they’re open plan.
I believe for HMO’s it’s hard wired interlinked smoke alarms with battery backup in every inhabitable room, hallways and heat in kitchen and fire doors too.
i would of probarbly install a conventional 8 zone panel but not use all the zones up, so one zone for the entrance hall/ ground floor area and another zone for the first and second floor. then one zone for 1 flat then another zone for the next flat then the next flat then another zone for the last flat so it will be six zones all together. i would also install manual call points encase someone discovers a fire so they can activate it before one of the smoke detector triggers so there will be a call point by the entrance door and at the bottom of every stairway for added protection so you dont have to wait for a activation of a smoke detector encase of a fire. I would most probarbly charge around £300-£400 but depends on the size of the building and weather the panel is addressable or conventional and the cost of petrol and the milage to the building so it might be more or less.
Hello I recently hired a electrician while I was away was caught smoking weed while on the job andv stunk is there a reg saying u can't do this
break glass ? sounders ?
Bypass all the switches and fit motion activated emergency maintained lights fittings. Fit Aico's Ei650RF RadioLINK+ Battery Optical Alarm, 10 year lithium battery and connects wirelessly with all other paired alarms. No trunking, quick and easy.
Doesn't normally comply with local council doing it that way they like pannel
Alvin Ashman that’s not a. Fire alarm system that’s smoke alarms it needs to be a panel for the communal areas I reckon
Yup. Easiest way no trunking. Depends whether client requires a fire panel with zoning or not though
Sounds interesting you got a link to these?
Cann't put them in buildings with 3 floors. Need to be a two floor to put a LD2 system.
I'm surprised that the flats only have one smoke detector. Are they flats with a kitchen, living room, bedroom and hall or are they bedsits. Or are flats in London are so small that one smoke detector is enough. Cannot understand why some are working on 8 man days then quoting £1200 - £2000. I would have expected circa £3500 inc. V.A.T.
Nice video !
£3573.68 All in the lot! I’d run the hoover around the gaff too!
Had carpet fitters in where I'm working a few days ago. They didn't have a hoover so they got clever and went looking, found a Dyson somewhere else in the building, but couldn't figure out how to use it. "You any idea how this thing works mate?" is what he asked me.
You'd be well worth paying £3573.68 if you did indeed hoover up the gaff afterwards as it's now a specialist trade.
Gaff??
I'd get rid of the Columbus switches and hanging lights and fit maintained led bulkhead type fittings with microwave sensors, I'd say altogether 4 days for 2 blokes
Ems fire cell I would go for as easy install reliable flexable and long battery life and also adressable
a copy of bs5839 is £100 to start , then calling your insurance most likely go up,
have to factor things like this. it maybe worth calling a firm in to design as most go on a risk assessment and i wouldnt like signing my name to designing stuff like fire alarms some offer to commission it at the end
I love Fike. Only install Fike pro or Quad net
whatever happened with the new recruit? Did I miss something?
Why are London prices higher?
Ok that’s interesting
I would put wall mounted bulk heads with running men. Covers most bs and en then. Change of direction, change of elevations, illuminatin callpoints and illuminating signage. As long as they can be mounted at 2.2m. Probably 2 days to fit lights and 1 day to run the cable but i guess its occupied so i guess you will have to do a floor at a time not hinder the occupants. Would have to put multiple callpoints in as you have to be able to reach one every 20m so one at the top and one at the bottom by the final exit maybe? Could just but a wireless fire alarm system in as well no floor boards need to be taken up. Depends on what way the joists run. 220 a day Labour 3 days install plus 1 test and commission. Maybe totaling some where between 2.5k and 3k all in + vat. Would need to do an intrusive survey first to check out joists. I hate joists.
Apollo protocol for the system
Considering it’s London you’re working in id try my luck and say £6k
I would replace the light fixtures, also replace the light switches with PIR sensor switches, 7 or 8 smoke/co detectors, honeywell IFP-50 panel, fire alarm pull handles for each floor, 18/2 and 18/4 cable, distress strobe light at the front door and with labor I would say $3,000 to $5,000.
Or
Replace the lighting, strobe light outside the door, PIR sensor light switches, two wireless glass breaks, 7 to 8 wireless smokes, a Honeywell Vista 15p panel, LTE-XV, GSM module, 6160RF Keypad $2,500.
I would also try and upsale for access control with a camera at the front door.
Keep the shitty video quality! I personally like the old style Nagy videos.
ctect or hayes panel with alarmsense optical combined sounder strobes, call point each landing including ground floor hall.
if the flats already have their own smoke detection then no need to install detection in the flats, maybe install a sounder combined beacon just within each flat.
wired system probably £3500 wireless triple it.
then fike panels are crap, take it from someone who works on fire day in day out.
feel free to ask me any questions by private message.
I think the best system to fit would be a gent vigilon With voice as to provent confusing tenants.
Personally I would fit a wireless fire alarm system (smoke detectors and call points) and by pass the switches and then you can fit emergency lights with built in microwave sensors. You'd only need to lift up minimal floor boards, as I'm guessing it's an active staircase? 2-3 days work, £3115.18 I would charge.
That's including vat of course 😅
50 Euro per hour or 400 per day, 5 days 1 man 1 apprentice(27.50)per hour) + materials @ 50% mark up exclusive of vat. I'd use 50x50 white trunking fixed in the corners for speed if it's allowed. And in terms of emergency lighting id just use standard maintained and non maintained bulkheads
Speaking of fire alarms. Is it ok to store stuff in the staircase in UK? I see the top flat has quite a lot of stuff outside their apartment.
Funnily enough it’s not allowed - but nobody seems to listen to it 🙄
A Gent or Wireless
Gent vig, best detection, gorgeous compared to shtiflex pro
Or if you can get the gent24 plexus systems, great wireless, also can add to a vig
Those emergency lights require to be maintained as it’s a walkway
What about the giveawayyy???
Needs to have a fire risk assessment to ascertain a adequate system for the appropriate cover
its just had one. I just havent bothered reading out all the gumph here otherwise itll get too complicated ;-)
£4K and about 2-3 days easy enough done a hmo with 13 smokes and 4 call points in 1 day just two people on the job all wired Apollo system.
For this place as it’s not stripped back I would go with wireless firearm system and the drum lights you say normally are not that bright
Price wise your Ok, wireless ban g on.
I’d charge them whatever the price for the system is, and if they would like to have a conventional I would do a Kentec Sigma on AlarmSense and if they want addressable I would do either Apollo or Hochiki on an Advanced panel or a Protec 6100 if it was a small building or 6300 if it was a bigger building
Maybe an Apollo xp95 with base sounders. Or a gent vigulon system. The gent could be a bit cheaper but the gent has multisensors so the vigilpn could do the job
Personally I would take the total amount of the price to get the equipment (including tools but at a really cost due to wear and tearing), and then get that total price of them and get 30% of it and add it on to the total price and that will give you the grand total price. So in short, everything bought and add 30% of the original cost. (30% is profit gained)
I think it is fair.
I'm guessing you've never ran a business before?
You can come and do all my jobs if you're happy to work for the cost of materials + 30%.
So you don’t charge labour then? Just 30% of the materials.
£2,800 ..how far out ?.