Are Dropper Posts On Road Bikes Here To Stay? | GCN Tech Show Ep. 222
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
- By winning Milan-San Remo on a bike equipped with a dropper seatpost, Matej Mohoric has got the cycling world talking about this potentially game changing innovation. Yes, we know that MTBers have been using them for years, and we too have made videos on the subject, but this feels like a turning point in road bike tech! Alex and Ollie discuss this, other hot tech and more on this week’s show…
Watch our video from last year where we made a road bike with a dropper seatposts 👉 • We Legalised The Super...
00:00 Intro
00:31 Last Week’s Polls
01:11 Dropper Seatposts
09:12 Hot Tech
17:38 Best Bike Shop in the World (*This Week)
19:18 Bike Vault
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Do you think dropper posts are here to stay on road bikes? Let us know in the comments below! 💬
This Week’s Poll:
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Do you think dropper posts are here to stay on road bikes?
Only for silly people and some pro racers.
Honestly, I have one on my gravel and MTB and love the dropper. I sort of want one on my road bike more than ever now.
Yes. We are going to see "aero bikes" with round seat posts in the next couple of years 100%. I'm willing to bet the gains from a dropper post far outweigh gains from an aerodynamic seat post, or some cheeky manufacturer is going to come up with an proprietary aero non-round dropper post.
Hang on, dropper post, big gears, fat tires, front suspension, next they will add flat bars. See where l'm going with this?
If this goes well, we get round seattube openings back and maybe an aero sleeve you can put over your round post to make it aero.
The statistic I've heard quite often is that the rider is 80% of aerodynamic drag and the bike is 20%. A bike that allows the rider to get in an aerodynamic position and still be able to pedal is going to be far more effective than sculpting the seat tube or other parts of the bike to be slightly more aerodynamic. Road bike manufacturers have been chasing the wrong horse for years so they can claim their bikes are more aerodynamic without considering the bike and rider as a complete system.
And hard to understand the GNC commentators with the Industry's aero dick in their mouths all these years.
That's because they are trying to sell their bikes. They're not fitness instructors or body sculpting physios. It's up to the individual to sift out the nonsense from the reality.
You're right! The dropper seatpost experiment Ollie did last year showed just how important aerodynamics are when riding fast!
Look at the lotus tt bike where the bike is designed with rider in mind with the graze wide forks and seat stays
I swear road bikes are always adopting mtb tech like years later.
I think that's largely because MTB is generally less constrained in terms of weight and / or form factor and for tech to make it onto road bikes, it usually takes a while before those issues are solved
It's so adorable to hear roadies debate the merits of technology that has long been proven in the mountain bike world... hydraulic disc brakes, sloping top tubes, tubeless tires with sealant, wider tires, and now dropper posts. What next? Longer lower slacker geometry?
Yeah, were MTB leads, road follows a while later.....Far too conservative and stuck in tradition.
@@_NoName... Don't be bitter. You'll learn to brake bleed and seat tubeless tires one day.
MTB engineers-the bikes go through rigorous testing in all kind of conditions constantly pushing the envelopes of a bikes capabilities year after.
Road engineers-its 2% lighter and more Aero than last year so you must sell your bike and spend $8,000 right away or you will be dropped next Saturday morning.
Dan predicted this before Ollie, you could even say he metaphorically dropped him ;)
🤣
Dan metaphorically dropped Ollie 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I've put a dropper post on my bike to make it easier to get on and off. I'm 80 yo and have had a hip replacement. For a two-wheel vehicle a lower CG does not increase cornering grip. For a car it does because tires are load sensitive meaning that each incremental increase in load gives a smaller increase in grip. In a corner a car transfers load from the inside tires to the outside tires because the CG is above ground. The outside tires don't gain as much grip as the inside tires loose. Less load transfer is why a low CG is better for a car. With only two wheels there is no lateral load transfer but there is longitudinal load transfer when accelerating or braking. Eddie Lawson told me load transfer was a big deal to learn when he began racing Indy Lights cars after he retired from Moto GP.
I wish for a dropper post at every stop light.
I love the idea of the best bike shop, but I have to admit that the execution of this segment has been underwhelming. I think you guys can do so much more with it. But thanks for highlighting great shops!
I've had a Dropper post on my Cannondale SuperX for 2 years. Love it.
Chris Horner has a convincing take on the impact of the dropper post on Mohoric’s margin of victory. He attributes much of the margin to Mohoric drafting off the camera moto and the trailing riders engaging in tactics, rather than the dropper.
I'll take that one step further and say if you really watch the clip of him descending, his riding is mediocre he was erratic and he almost crashed twice. It was more of a psychological Advantage for him because he just took more risk and rode above his head but got away with it.
More Chris Horner subscribers! He’s awesome. Can’t believe he’s not a DS somewhere!
Completely agree... People keep mentioning he won because of the dropper post but in reality, his victory was mainly the result of: 1- good strategy in the the earlier part of the race (he was comfortably drafting but in a good position while other contestants were wasting energy in failed breakaways, so he was in a better shape for the final kms), 2- he took more risks in the descent (and almost crashed twice as a result - he was lucky), 3- he was able to draft from the motorbike t the end of the race (arguably good strategy again). I really believe he would probably have won even with a normal seat post. All of this to put the attention in the tech again: bike manufacturers will probably be soon selling adapters from their proprietary seat post shapes to standard round and make quite a bit of money from it...
As long as your aero seatpost is wider that 27.2mm you could easily make a shim to fit the dropper post into the aero hole in the frame. Cheap and much easier than making a telescopic aero post
Since UCI pro bikes have a -minimum- weight limit, it just means they can make the frame lighter and include a dropper post.
Exactly. They’ve been putting weights into them for years in order to get them up to the limit.
Actually, most teams struggle to get their bikes near to the limit in the age of aero disc braked bikes. Most pro bikes are well over 7kg.
@@SecwetGwiwer True for aero bikes. Perhaps the UCI aren’t holding manufacturers back after all 🙂
I love dropper posts. Everything from lowering at junctions and traffic lights, doing downhill, going onto gravil...but 27,2 options generally don't retract as much and are more expensive offering less than larger diameter mtb models.
Great video guys….. Ollies expression over the hydraulic bike was priceless 😂😂😍 also surprised ye didn’t talk about the new type brake discs Molhoric had on his winning bike 🤔
Been running a dropper on my gravel bike, which I use as a do it all bike incl for the road. I really like the increased flexibility it offers. Would recommend it to other cyclists if they feel like they'd get the benefit.
I have an idea about the dropper post. As you stated most bikes down tube on tour are oval for aero effects, but if you slide the dropper through an oval hollow seat tube and weld the static part of the dropper to the aero tube it would function as an aero dropper post.
GCN Tech: Are Dropper Posts On Road Bikes Here To Stay?
Everyone: Depends on how tight you fasten it! 🤣🤣🤣
Hahahahah! 🤣
I like it when Ollie sells that merch like a booth announcer for a television game show. And for sure we need slammed saddles like slammed stems, so bring on the droppers and let the tech improve the ride. And what's not to love about Matej being all-in on droppers, even warning his buds at the start that they follow him at their own risk. And there's no arguing with success or the big dog on the block. :)
Hello GCN, I’d love to see a video all about the new specialised allez sprint. Thanks and I love the videos👍
Love my dropper! Aside from manipulating air resistance and balance it came in handy in an emergency situation.
Dropper post makes it easier for us old guys to throw a leg over our trusty steeds . Maybe on my gravel bike, but never on my road bike .🤷🏼♂️
Works on your road bike, too. This old guy is a fan.
My question is - Mohoric really built up a lead over the chasers during the decent and the dropper post is cited as a large part of the lead he built up. But - the man also rode like a possessed demon. Could it be that the dropper post is really more hype than help and that most of his lead was due to the mental way in which he rode the decent? So 90% of the lead was due to riding and 10% due to dropper post? (Numbers just ter illustration of example)
You’re 100% right about Mohoric’s demonic riding being a big part of his success. Another valid point others have raised were his race tactics & drafting the front group really efficiently. Worth noting that Mahoric himself admitted the dropper made it easier to make corrections when flying down the descent at breakneck speeds ie enabling him to ride like the devil we saw.
Agreed, I reckon he'd of done near enough the same descent without the post. 2 seconds at the line might not have been all the post. If we're analysing everything then the 2 seconds he had spare might've been even more had he not dropped his chain accidentally and been able to power all the way through the corner.
They'll probably make aero droppers soon if there's demand. I already have a dropper on my MTB, I might put one on my road bike in the future if it's not expensive.
New CVT bike is always fun. Always wanted one with the CVT in the BB like some of those gearboxes.
But I don't like ebikes.
I can see the dropper post being popular with senior less flexible riders , enabling them to dismount easier - of course getting a round seatpost may be a problem going forward .
Exactly so. When I first mentioned my dropper on a road bike threat, I was laughed at. But then I'm not 25, either and I value not falling on my behind on a dismount.
CVT - that's what an infinite number of gears options is usually called. My mum's got one in her Nissan...
Those are chain or belt driven though. Hydraulics is a new spin ... so to speak
👍👍👍 and 👏👏👏 for Ollie eventually pronouncing Milano - Saremo right! love from 🇮🇹!
If you're a geezer like me; and your hips don't have that swing thang any more, a dropper letting you lower your seat for when you dismount without falling on your behind is a godsend. Trust me. I know. It works. First on my hybrid; and now on my Domane.
I see shims being designed to allow round seat posts with aero frames on the mountain stages and then remove the shim to use the aero post.
i think that 2nd last bike (single speed gold chain) should of been a bell drop since Ollie was speechless.
Guys, that Factor VAM should have been a bell drop. The best I've seen on the vault in a long time.
Come on mates, dropper seat post is more flash than fire. Chris Horner well pointed out that besides the extreme risks Mohoric took and the areo advantage of the six motos in front of him easily accounts for the time difference
Maybe, the field tests regarding tucked positions are pretty definitive though. Even in my own riding when going downhill I accelerate much faster when tucked than in a normal riding position.
@@sadlfjasdfacv Tucked positions are faster and all the riders were tucked. The claim is that the time gap came directly from the dropper post. I disagree and think the gap was the result of a more aggressive line and the aero advantage of having 6 motos in front of him
The Oyo bike as mentioned before is a type of CVT (continuously variable transmission). I would also assume that the wheel hub would likely run like a torque converter in an automatic transmission car. Great zero maintenance concept.
Droppers are great. My wife's custom Rodriguez gravel bike was designed around a 90mm dropper. Road bikes have the least need for them, but who doesn't like a ripping decent?
Finally people get the advantages of dropper posts. When you regard the fact that some people claim that they have no place on gravle bikes.
Crank Brothers just released a carbon dropper seat post. It is still round, but if you can make a carbon dropper, it is just a matter of time (and will) to make it non-round. I think that after banning supertuck, dropper seatposts were inevitable. Considering the low weight of the modern bikes and the weight limit of 6,8 kg, cutting another ~200 gr here and there to accomodate dropper seems to be the way of the future.
Hydro system could technically allow you a reverse gear lookout fixies :D
That Peterspycher's bike is a pure ubernice/belldropper! :)
I am going to buy dropper post. I have it on my mountain bike and love it.
Can you offset the weight against some of the other components and stay at or close to the minimum, are some of the "aero" stems not compatible with a round replacement ?
Off topic. What I'd like to know, is how the guys managed to get the "Supernice" bell, away from Manon. We've all seen how protective she is of that bell. 😅
Isn't there a comfort issue? I always thought a dropper post would be nice on my gravel bike for safely descending tricky trails. But shied away because I like the flex of my carbon seatpost, I think it helps dampening vibrations? Or do you think that's not relevant, compared to the soft tires?
I've still got a 2004 Spesh M5 SWorks Alum road bike. 16.3 lb.
It's still red-hot.
prediction - aero droppers, and yes - I use a dropper on my all road/gravel bike and it makes a noticeable difference.
question - Do you know how his dropper was wired? The one he used is cable actuated and he's running an electronic groups. Also didn't notice any cable running into his frame.
his team had it customized so that it could be run wireless
This just came to mind. Alternative universe. Mohoric hits the wall when he first jumps away. He and his bike bounce back into the road resulting in crashing out a few of the group behind. the use of the dropper post will be blamed for encouraging risky behavior. Then banned. remember spinacis?
Olly is wrong about a low centre of gravity being more stable on a bike. Balancing a bike is similar to balancing a stick on your finger, both are unstable and will fall if you don’t do anything to prevent it. Having said that, a long stick is easier to balance than a short one, the same is true with bikes, low rider recumbents are trickier to balance than a penny farthing. All these systems are unstable, a high centre of gravity just slows things down and makes it easier.
I'm looking for a race oriented bike- the Allez sprint looks like a good deal. I live in new york which is historically pretty rough riding (especially after a hard winter). Do you think it's worth it to go with an AL bike or should I save my pennies and just get a tarmac?
They are using these in the Cape Epic on MTB this year . If it improves safety and performance i am all for it .... progress . Let the riders choose to use or not use .
Somehow your studio is brighter? New lighting I assume… plus subscription definitely pays more than just bills!
I'd have no need for a dropper post, I'm not trying to beat someone down a descent. Plus, they remind me of those suspension seatposts with the big, cushy, saddle perched on top. I'll go for sleek and slower. 😉
That’s funny, when I got my first road bike last year I asked about a drop seat post and was laughed at 😂
They laugh at you because they are a bunch of idiots
Don't ask. Just do. If the dropper worked for you on another bike, it'll work for you on your road bike.
Check out Doddy on GMBN Tech presenting crankbrothers Highline 11 full carbon dropper. If that come in 27.2 and e.g. 80 mm drop!! (weight 490 grams for 170mm of drop and a diameter of 31.6mm.
Also MTB's with non-round seatpost and dropper option:
BMC Fourstroke: oval shaped seat post w/dropper build into the frame
BMC Twostroke: D-shaped seat post where you can install a shim to fit a 27.2 dropper and internal routing.
Imagine if road brands put R&D after dropper!
Example droppers 27.2 mm:
Fox Transfer SL, 327 g for Factory 27,2 mm dropper w/ 50 mm travel, two position (up or down), no hydraulics but spring
DT swiss upside down carbon (partly?)
Crankbrothers Highline XC/Gravel 27.2 Dropper - 60mm - Short, 369 g (hydraulic cartridge)
Crankbrothers Highline 11 full carbon dropper (coming), (weighs 490 grams for 170mm of drop and a diameter of 31.6mm, imagine weight of a 27.2 w/80 mm drop!!)
PRO Discover Dropper Post 27,2/70 mm, 415 g.
One correction regarding droppers - it's not the same reason an F1 car has a low centre of gravity. On a bike, the (vertical) COG position has negligible effect on grip and maximum speed when in a turn. What it does do is make it easier to turn the bike in and out of corners, as the moment of inertia about the COG is lower. A better comparison would be a MotoGP bike.
The aerodynamic area reduction in lowering the torso outweighs an airfoil section seatpost.
When the riders are descending at greater than equilibrium velocity, having a lower C-G makes a more stable vehicle.
Alex, That was a great line about the wet lube!
I want an ejector seat next on my race bike!
I was thinking about to get it on my bike since I start cycling last year but seat tube isn't round
Ollie, where is all your hair? Loved your pandemic hair cut!
#askgcntech Hi folks. I’ve got a wheel-on smart trainer and when I’m using Zwift I often have my wahoo head unit recording too. I’ve noticed that Zwift and the head unit report very different power numbers. I do have a single-sided power meter on my bike but I’m pretty sure the head unit isn’t receiving data from that while I’m Zwifting. What’s the reason for this discrepancy and is there’s away to fix it/check it’s not my crank power meter? Thanks :)
Considering the UCI weight limit is 6.8kg lightweight bikes which would otherwise need weight added to comply I see more cyclists adopting dropper seatposts.
So are we going to see new lower frames specifically designed for dropper posts so it can match the super tuck and it won't take much for a frame manufacturer to make an aero dropper.
Cannondale Rxxx frames from the late 90's - early 2000's were the sexiest aluminum frames ever - you couldn't find a weld on those frames. They were so clean. I refuse to let Specialized get any props for making a clean aluminum frame, regardless of how light it may be.
Coppi had the right idea back in the 50`s then !!
2 inches low is better than 1/4" too high all day .
Pretty soon you will see sloping top tubes so that you can put a taller dropper in.
They already do this on mountain bikes....
Your opinion as per dropper seatpost taking off is just that, your opinion. If the pros want it, the manufactures WILL produce it, aero and light droppers.
What's the aero difference between an aero and round seat post?
Ollie's GCN plus pitch was cheesy as hell and made me want to look at subscribing haha
Cannondale Super Six Evo has a round post too.
They snubbed that red BMC, should have been a super nice. That grime was just a reflection of the red chainstay :'(
Did anyone notice Ollie's comment on Conor Dunne's IG picture?? He really commented "🌈 🦄 💩" I love these guys lmao
Dropper post or periscope, time to see Ollie and the aquabike ... again?
Does the weight of the dropper seatpost really matter considering the UCI 6.8kg rule?
This! They could easily cut 200g somewhere else with little trouble.
@@chicagoan Or add weight to get up to the minimum weight. Very easy for top end bikes to come up short of the outdated 6.8 Kg minimum. Instead of adding lead weights, add something useful.
@@newttella1043 yessir! Useful weight, why not?
Bigger riders with aero bikes and discs are far from limit.
One more goody for realy old guys, one can lower the saddle hieght to get the leg over, for mounting and dismounting...no more old wooly shorts getting snagged...pete berry
Now that I got the "who predicted the use of a dropper post" off my chest...the Tech question is whether or not manufacturers of dropper posts will partner with bike manufacturers and make dropper posts that are designed for a particular model/non-round seat post design?
Soooo I need to manufacture an areo dropper post. Got it.
Sorry Ollie but Dan predicted dropper posts in the peloton in a vid a few years before you...
Dropper post - additional 250 grams.
Disc brakes - additional 300 grams.
They can make bikes way below the uci limit. So the dropper post should not be a problem.
Closed loop hydraulic drive.
Burgh Island sea tractor.
Any news or rumors about the release of new Canyon Ultimate??? I'm going crazy for waiting
If you listen closely enough, you can hear the nose whistle when Ollie breathes in. I thought it was me when I first heard it😂
Maybe you need a checklist board in the background so not to miss out on some of these polls & other things.
So honestly its a question of will produce not round drop seat posts. And i say yes.
Im surprised it took so long for someone to use a dropper. So many of the pros are terrible descenders, at least with respect to technique... The dropper helps a ton in this scenario.
We need to go the f back to rim brake for road racing
The bike exchange guys looking at the dropper post craze from atop their horrid giant ISP frames: "Well, we're screwed"
rim brake + round tubes + no 6.8kg limit = HAPPY WORLD
No, Ollie. You need to think bigger. This is not going to be just about Fox selling a few more dropper posts this season. No, this is the birth of the "Specialized San Remo": an aero bike with dropper post with integrated control in the shifters! They were able to sell us on the benefits of Future Shock and other integrated suspension gear on behalf of Roubaix's cobbles. Do you think that the big brands are going to waste a chance like this to sell us YET another bike?
And one more thing: Mahoric was using Continental Grand Prix 5000S TUBELESS tires... in 28mm width! On the SPRINTER's monument!!! So now we can officially also say goodbye to 25mm tires in the pro peloton. About bloody time...
Aero droppers arent that much harder than round ones. NBD. Its a little more of a challenge but not by much.
Dropper, yes please.
Ollie you should hit the 1000 watts easy now you have had long enough to train for it, good luck 🏋🚴
Disappointed that Alex didn't call up the best bike shop in the world again! 😂
He's still too embarrassed from last time!
@@gcntech hahahahaha true
Why not do some GCN does science? How much faster is a descent with seat post at minimum vs standard… then we could start considering if they’re worth it?
Depends on the reliability of the tech. Don't want to deal with a malfunctioning drop post in mid-ride, or really in general.
don’t worry about that - as with most ‘new’ road tech, it’s gone through at least a 10 year de-bugging period on mtb.
I wish I could get one for my Gravel bike!
What do you mean you wish? There are both internal and external dropper post available.
@@rider65 Giant D-post
hydraulic discs, tubeless, dropper posts……just need to fix those curly-wurly bars now.
yeah baby yeah
I am sure with the technology of the present day somebody will make and aero seat post dropper
This is my first road czcams.com/users/postUgkxMesz3KOGEmwmvyKQfLfrRSUXLFzfVHZA and I have taken it out a handful of times and so far it is exceeding all of my expectations. I didn’t want to break the bank on a first bike and the herd is a great option for getting a fast bike with reliable components. I plan on riding this bike for many years to come. Thank you Sava!
Any particular kind of cake Alex? 🎂🧁🥮
There’s no clever valve system. A single 1-way is all.
A hydraulic motor is (in simple terms) exactly the same as a pump.
The most simple example would be a hydraulic brake with a lever piston surface are of 1.
The calliper piston has a surface area of 2.
This gives you a 2:1 hydraulic advantage.
Look up “excavator variable hydraulic pump” to see how this system will work, but essentially:
I expect at the crank end (due to size) there will be a group of 6-8 pistons driven by a rotating disc you can adjust the angle of anywhere between , let’s say 0-45deg. (Rear fixed at 45deg.)
At 0deg, the pistons will move 0% of their stroke, you’re effectively in neutral.
At 45deg, they will travel 100% of their stroke, giving you 100% power.
Now combine this with the surface areas of pistons, and you have infinite options between n:1.
Hope this makes sense.
Here’s a nerdy video that may explain it better or worse than me, but with animation.
czcams.com/video/Mj1GB61cI74/video.html
Ollie, while discussing the hydraulic drivetrain, you had a face of a person who hasn't seen a peristaltic pump before. This is not an easy thing to believe considering your extensive scientific background 😛