Why Flat Bars Are BETTER Than Drop Bars For Most Cyclists (Objective Analysis)
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- It's time to analyse the differences between these two handlebar designs, covering everything from performance to frame geometry, product design to safety. 📘 The Bikepacking Bike Buyer's Guide: www.cyclingabout.com/bikepack...
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0:00 - Intro
0:51 - Reason #1
1:52 - Reason #2
2:57 - Reason #3
3:25 - Reason #4
4:04 - Reason #5
5:02 - Reason #6
6:05 - Reason #7
6:49 - Reason #8
7:13 - Reason #9
7:46 - Reason #10
8:22 - Reason #11
8:50 - Flat Bars Are Safer
9:26 - Drops Reason #1
10:20 - Drops Reason #2
10:40 - Drops Reason #2
11:07 - Why Are Drop Bars So Popular?
11:54 - Summary
CCGSTFSREDPHW8CW - Věda a technologie
I spent 8 minutes discussing the merits of flat bars, and 2.5 minutes on the merits of drop bars. That means flat bars are exactly 3.2X better than drop bars! Case closed everyone. 🔨👀
But seriously, I hope you enjoyed the analysis! 😎
As a Mtber I agree.
3.2 times? Hard to argue with that logic. Thanks!
I would discard the #2 and #3 reasons, as it is more about stem length
As for the brakes they all must be operated with one finger, disregarding flat or drops - if you need more, those are bad brakes, not handlebars
Flat bars don't offer different positions, but only variations of a single option, if you consider wrist and shoulder rotation. Drop bar dominance is even more clear, if you pick only positions when you can operate the contols
In general though this video and whole argument can be condensed to the statement that flat bars originate from and get used on mountain bikes and are connected with all corresponding tech advancements, while road bikes have not caught up, so the drops are inheretely flawed.
But personally, I find pursuit handlebars the absolute best
this video is poorly titled, you keep comparing road bikes vs mountain bikes. instead of the actual differences in the handlebars
This is my favorite channel for super bike nerd content. Love it!
"The drop bar market will flat out pay more for the same thing" Never have I been so offended by something I 100% agree with.
😂 True indeed!
James Acaster is that you?
Great video!
Most manufacturers of drop bars also make flat bars.
I tend to agree that 'flat' bars are better for more people. However, if you are on the road for more than a couple hours, they tend to become uncomfortable. That's part of the reason that road cycling enthusiasts still overwhelmingly prefer drop bars. Leaving out ergonomics in a discussion about bars was an odd decision. It's my number one criterion.
Totally agree - when I heard that exclusion I wasn't sure whether to bother continuing
Because it is extremely subjective and will very much depend on the person.
@@michaeljensen6805to claim ergonomics is a subjective thing is wrong.
@necromax13 not saying you are wrong, just genuinely confused. Ergonomic means "designed for efficiency and comfort in the working environment." Wouldn't it be the case that different body proportions, levels of flexibility, levels of strength, and other factors would result in one style of bar being ergonomic for one rider but not ergonomic for another?
@@Rivercityrides Ergonomics, as a byproduct of orthopedics, is in fact not subjective. It's science.
Something was forgotten here. Drop bars allow a "hammer" (or joystick) handling, which prevents twisting the wrist. This position is much less traumatic for the wrist and forearm over a long time, and is the reason for ergonomical vertical mouses. You can have flat bars with vertical additions, but they won't give you access to the gear shifters and brakes, meaning you can only use them on quiet roads where you ride alone. The flat bar handling, after a week of intensive computer work, adds to the wrist pain and carpal syndrom risks, especially as you add your weight on a twisted wrist.
Wasn’t totally forgotten, imho. Bar ends and bullhorns were mentioned, which mob riders and tourers (in my limited experience) have been using for years for this very reason
It wasn't forgotten, it's a matter of ergonomics, which OP said he wasn't going to cover. And anyway, 90° vertical grips are just as egonomically awkward as 90° horizontal ones. My hands don't naturally rest at either of those angles. And, since you brought up the computer mouse analogy, if the vertical grip was so much better, then joystick mice would be more popular. But they're not; they're a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the computer mouse market.
Indeed, most "ergonomic" and "gaming" mice aren't completely horizontal or completely vertical. They tend to place the hand at a slight angle relative to the surface they're on, e.g. the Microsoft Intellimouse, by far the most comfortable computer mouse I have used. That is a much more natural hand position, IMHO. If this logic held to bicycle handlebars, a slightly canted angle downward and perhaps towards the rider would be more comfortable than either a flat bar or a drop bar. (these are called "alt bars" I think? Idk, I'm not a cyclist) And that design would still be predominantly a flat bar one, just with some minor modifications.
also gear shifters come in a variety for both styles. my classic road bike with drop bars has bar-end friction shifters which let me shift several gears at once and my partner's modern flatbar commuter has push button gears which allow only one shift at a time
@VojtaHry You can click on a vertical mouse without inducing an horizontal sliding movement, I have been doing it for the past 6 years… It's not about being able or not being able to use horizontal mouses, it's about the fact that when you spend up to 10 hours a day on a computer, ergonomical flaws can't be ignored anymore. No doubt that your average Facebook mom can live with a poorly designed computer attire, for lightweight use.
@@DJstarrfish When you grab a hammer to put down a nail, you go up and down vertically, or left and right horizontally ? Which one gives you the more force for the least energy ?
It's a stretch to imagine that the most sensible/clever design would be the popular one. If that was true, we would all use Dvorak keyboards, and yet we are all still stuck the QWERTY/QWERTZ/AZERTY keyboards layouts, designed specifically to be unefficient as to avoid letters to get stuck on typewriter.
Just check at how radius-cubitus attach to the elbow… any horizontal position implies to have them twisted at the wrist end. If you keep them parallel over the length of the forearm, you end up with a vertical wrist.
Sure, a slight angle might be better than 100% upright, but still, 100% horizontal is nonsense.
As a cyclist, I have put bullhorns on my bike, but I can't use them as much as I want because brakes are still on the flatbar. Doesn't matter for a daily commute, but swallowing 130 km in 2 days, you feel the pain growing on day 2.
Actually, in ultra-enduro races, people even go as far as putting aero bars designed for triathlon, not so much for the aero position, but simply to relax their wrists and get their weight on their forearms.
Never have i been this offended by something i 100% agree with.
Angry roadie noises
🤣
james acaster? :D
@@juschtn I mean, most of this is not really that relevant to roadies. Drop bars are still better for the most part if all you ride is road. Most of these reasons are applicable if you ride dirt but generally the steering, shifting and braking on drops is more than enough for most roads and as the guy mentioned, they're good aerodynamically too. Plus the hoods and the drops both can access the brakes which is not something offered by most of the aero flat bar designs mentioned
I really love drops, especially since it's easy to hide from the wind, but you make a compelling argument. Something to think about for sure.
I've put bar ends on the inner side and covered them in bar tape. Best of both worlds and dirt cheap.
That extra reach and hand on hoods makes drops more comfortable. There are flat bar handlebar options but they are very expensive. You can pick up drops anywhere. This channel is focused on bike packing/gravel riding there are reasons why so many people use drops. Not body is racing road races on flat bars.
My bike is an old school bike I guess Mongoose Crossways 225 I put drop bars on that written it's on every surface I could on road off road never had problem with control very responsive I use traditional rim brakes never had to use all fingers breaking just index fingers only I do not use bar tape either his argument doesn't come to anything I also have ultra low gear range on back climbing Hills as well and high gears for good acceleration
20 miles everyday commute - switched from flat to drop bars an year ago. I am fast , nimble, aero and wrist pain free since then. Not going flat anytime soon
wide flat bars get uncomfortable to hold quickly. not having to splay your arms to the side means that its easier to support yourself.
Drops are also easy on my elbows
Same. My favorite at the moment is Cinelli Largo. Most comfortable handlebar Ive ever used.
Flat bars; aching shoulders, tingling wrists, most uncomfortable, end of story.
@@miniac60 I'm all for drop bars too, but couldn't the problems you describe be resolved using a swept-back flat bar?
I grew up riding dirt bikes all over. Once I became a teen, I started to go into a tuck with standard flat bars because I started riding at speeds where aerodynamics are really significant. Once I got my first road/touring bike with dropbars I was in love. I still appreciate the use of flat bars for some things. But for my riding style, drop bars are generally better.
I’m the exact same man. First mtb I was already going into a tuck.
The reason I changed from flat to dropbars is the ability to change hands position and thus avoid hands pain. Yet no doubt all arguments you detail in favour of flat bars are highly accurate
Butterfly
I'm sticking with drop bars so I can tuck and enjoy substantially less wind resistance going down hills or into headwinds.
You make some good arguments. Objectively, I agree even, but ergonomically I find drop bars more comfortable for longer rides.
I'm glad to hear drop bars work better for you ergonomically! I personally find both to be comfortable. 💪🏼
I find drop bars to be too far forward which makes reaching the brake levers hard while being able to use the advantage of brake lever leverage only in lowest position on the drops which doesn't get used due to being too low.
@@uvwuvw-ol3fg
That just sounds like a bad set up.
@@uvwuvw-ol3fg drop bars should be considered along with your bike length..
@@uvwuvw-ol3fg maybe have a shorter stem
I'm in the market for a gravel bike and this vid was an ENORMOUS help to me. I've been riding mtb's for over 20 yrs and the thought of riding trails with drop bars kind of "tripped me out". I can't imagine bombing technical descents, rock gardens and root systems with my hands on the hoods. This video gave me the obvious solution. Flats with "old school" bar ends. I really appreciate all the data you put together for this video and look forward to more of your content. Cheers!!
Impaling hazard, be safe
My understanding is that traditional MTB barends went our of fashion because of how easily they can get caught in a branch.
@@FrostbikerOne thing that didn't help bar ends was the fact that riser bars became fashionable, and bar ends look goofy on risers. Iook at any MTB from the mid 90s and it always had straight flat bars if bar ends were fitted.
So, are you in the market for a gravel bike or an MTB? because bombing down descents of any skill level isn't the case use for GRAVEL bikes.
An mtb with alt bars does it for what you're claiming you'll be doing.
@@necromax13 I'm pretty in tune with what a gravel bike is used for and by NO MEANS am I trying to be snarky in ANY WAY at all. All I meant was descending over roots, rocks, washouts, etc., was something I felt would be somewhat sketchy on drop bars coming from 25+ yrs of straight mtbing. I plan on doing some off road bike-packing and a gravel set-up such as a Salsa Cuthroat would be a good fit for the type of riding I would be encountering. While flat bars are a good choice I also plan on doing rides on railway trails where drop bars would give me more options to cut down on hand fatigue as well as allow my back and neck angles to be in different positions along the way. "bombing descents" may have painted the wrong type of picture I have in mind, but there is no doubt there will be features more suited for mtbing than straight gravel, but... That is half the fun. I appreciate the response. Happy trails. Cheers!!
I customize all my bars with various add-on bars.
I get a few weird looks but love having all the hand position options.
Once again a great analysis! I totally agree. One thing that you miss is risk of breaking the shifters/brake is you/the bike fall down. It's very unlikely to break a shifter on a flat bar as the road shifter would have been damaged on the same fall.
I'm glad that I had flat bar for this reason when my bike fall is the middle of nowhere in africa, Bolivia or wherever it could have been impossible to find replacement.
Living in Holland I am indeed used to always seeing and, as a consequence, owning flatbar touring bikes. Owning a beautiful dropbar Trek 920 has finally allowed me to comfortably ride distances between 120 and 200 KM without any lower back pain, just feeling relaxed (as far as my upper body goes, of course ;-), whereas I used to be stuck at like 100 km a day max because more would just be exhausting. No more flatbar European bikes for me!!
It sounds like you may have the same experience as myself. With most flat bars, they put my back at an odd and uncomfortable angle. I need to be very upright or stretched out over drop bars.
I hear you, I rode 100 km to the cabin yesterday on the flat bar bike because it has fenders and it might rain, there’s no place to put my damned hands except for the one. I’m much more relaxed on long rides with the drops where there’s at least 4 different positions.
@@PRH123 I just did 110km on flats and don't feel any discomfort or soreness at all. It's all just personal preference.
@@iddra1868 no arguments there!
@@iddra1868 sure, I’m not saying I felt any soreness or discomfort as such then or now, I support myself with my back, and not arms…. it for me is just more relaxed and comfortable with drops on a long distance road ride…. for an English century would prefer them… i actually have 3 types of bars on my 3 bikes, each has their strengths.. drops, straight flat (winter), and the Deviant Mini with 15 degree sweep, that I ride yesterday…
On a drop bar one can shift your hands a couple of millimeters again and again because everything is intended to be grabbed instead of just the ends of the bar.
Also I like how my wrists are oriented in the hoods and ramps positions. These are primary positions on a drop bar but optional on a flat bar.
I like the flat bars but, only with alternate handles attached to give a variety of holds.
I use wide flat bars with old school bar ends. Works a treat for me.
I agree. Flat bars today are light years advanced compared to the '80s and '90s. There is a plethora of ingenious flat bar designs on the market today.
the flat or riser bars are a treat off-road but they really suck at speed or into headwind.
@@jamesmedina2062 try this, rest your forearms on teh top of your bars and clasp your hands. You now have the TT position!
@@fegless69 I use them as "bar midles" for aero position.
As always from you a very informative video. But in the end it all comes down to personal preferences and limitations of your body. Flat bars suck when your wrists start hurting after 25 km. Drops bars suck when your neck stiffens up after 30km. Just right what you like best.
It’s unfortunate this isn’t generally something a person can know until they’ve potentially invested a lot of money into a bike.
If your neck hurts from riding with drop bars then you need a better bike fit. Likely a shorter reach and a higher stack. That specific problem is unlikely due to the bar type.
I love my long flat riser bars (taken directly from my MTB) as they are the most versatile for my riding style. Great leverage and control on technical trails, great for little trials sections and admirable performance on the road as well. Having that MTB feel on my hybrid bike is quite important for me
I've been looking at drops because I'm sick of constantly fighting air resistance. However, I had no idea the range of flat bar variations. Lots for me to consider now. Great video!
Such a great analysis. As a drop bar devotee for years who’s finally admitted how little time he actually spends in the drops as opposed to on the hoods, the one remaining plus for me is a narrower profile in traffic. Even then, my middle aged spread realistically negates much of the benefit! Drop bar bikes just always looked cooler, faster and more aspirational when I was a kid. Now, with all the fun and practical options of flat bar design available, the more grown up me sees things differently. I’m not as flexible as I once was, it’s not so much about speed these days as enjoying the ride experience and taking it all in, and I’ve learned how useful the bars can be as a storage area / cockpit for navigational aids, lights, bell etc. Massive PITA, trying to accommodate what I want on drop bars, and impairs the looks as well as their functionality and safety. None of the same problems with flats.
You can just easily cut your handlebar, there are videos on youtube on this
I am 75 years old and ride the parks mostly on paved trails. I love the high bars of the Trek Verve +2 and the short reach to them, leaving me upright in the riding position. I have had surgery on both shoulders, and I am missing the disk in the L5 vertebrae after surgery. The drop bars found mostly on the road bikes today are for those who race on pavement. The straight bars of the MTB fanatics are not for me. I won’t ever ride like that. So, the adjustable bars of the Trek Verve +2 will keep me riding. The “flat” bars would keep a bike like that unused in my garage if I owned one.
If you haven't ever piloted a recumbent, you're missing out on some serious, mile-munching comfort on two wheels. They're also very fast, faster than diamond frame bicycles.
Mtb fanatics? Wtf. Just ride whatever you want and let others enjoy their own things old dude.
Here’s something to think about with all day comfort (this is further to my other comment and not taking into account the undoubted control flats give in rough terrain). Try standing casually with you arms hanging at your sides. What is your hand position? Palm against your thigh I imagine. Now simply rotate both arms forward and bend at the elbow. Where are your hands now? Palms facing each other inward? Just the way you’d ride on the hoods of drop bars. That’s why it’s no surprise that those biomechanics mean that’s the most comfortable multi hour riding position. But as Alee said, it’s not the whole story with all the other factors you might need to consider for your journey
Biomechanics are far more complex than your resting arm pose! I'm not even going to pretend I understand it all though, so I'll leave it at that. 😂
Agreed, but there is still personal variation. I can't do straight bars, as they give me wrist and elbow problems if I use them for long duration. Being able to shift positions is best, I've tried all, but now I mostly use the old fashioned dutch (grandma-bike) handle bar for touring..
@@frederik0014 I have the same problem with straight bars. Have hand and wrist discomfort after 15 minutes so added bar ends and inner extensions on my MTB when I used it for touring. That means the arm doesn’t have to rotate inwards. It’s more natural. Changing my hand position so palm is inward rather than palm down is the only way I can ride any distance. Putting the hands on top of a straight/flat bar turns the whole arm from the shoulder and it feels impinged and I get tingles are sore arms, wrist, hands quickly like a nerve is impinged.
But two years ago I built a new touring bike based on a Lynskey titanium gravel frame and use Pro medium flare drop bars. Problem solved. I’ll use the tops sometimes for change of position but on the hoods I’m good for 6+hrs.
@@Cyclingabout I just know what works for me I guess and my Physio (who is a serious cyclist) took me through it and looked at the function of my arm. Hold your arms out in front with palms inward (like on hoods) then turn them palm down flat (like on tops or flat bar). That turns the whole arm from the shoulder and for me and many others that gives an impinged feeling. Everything gets tight in the arms, nerves feel impinged and the arm from the hand up fatigues and starts tingling quickly. I’ve got friends with the same issue.
I’ll use tops or flat bar a bit but just for a position change, but moving to bar ends, inner extensions or hoods gives immediate relief. I’ve known this for yrs and assumed it was the sane for everyone which is why so many interesting touring bar shapes have been developed.
Here's another one: do a push up. What is your natural hand position then? As you can see, it's not that simple.
I swapped out the drop bars on my e-gravel bike for one of your designed handlebar and couldn't be happier. The main reason for the handlebar change was with the drop bar I suffered from numbness in my thumbs and next two fingers on longer rides. Using your flat bar has eliminated 90% of the numbness.
Bars might have been too far forward, causing your weight to shift more into your hands.
Great video! I've noticed when I'm on a road/ gravel tour I generally stay in the same position on the bike. Flared drop bars and careful attention to seat and shorts used are paramount for me. On an off road tour I'm standing more, sliding forward and back on the seat more and using much more body English in general. My seat matters less and flat bars give me WAY more control on rough singletrack and tech terrain in general. They both win!
Great concept, very well explained. It's something I have been wondering for a long time. I own a road bike with dropbars (of course), and most of the time I ride on the horns. Then I also have a "pseudo" gravel bike, a hybrid/urban bike to which I changed the wheels to 40mm wide gravel tyres, and ergon horns on the flatbars. I almost never miss the dropbars even when I ride fast on flat and wide tracks. On the other side, whenever I ride in just slightly complicated tracks, I am glad I have flats instead of drops.
I said "pseudo" but I see there are some brands that sell gravel bikes with flatbars, such as the pricey specialized diverge EVO. I feel proud to see that the "copied" me ;)
Enjoyed watching. Not with you on steel frames, but with you on most things. Of course, attitude and skills matter most over the choice of bike, to be safe and have fun. That gets forgotten a lot of the time. Keep up the great vids, hope you have a nice evening.
In the Netherlands they sell a lot of fitness and hybrid bikes with flat bars to beginners. It's all based on the misunderstanding that's more comfortable.
But a very large mayority will come back to the bikeshop within two years for a "proper" bike with drop handlebars. Stories vary but they have wrist or shoulder propblems or they can't keep up with the others on road bikes.
In the Netherlands there is always wind and the drop handlebar is far superior for that.
Ironically drop bars are great for urban area's to ride in between cars (and for parking the bike next to others on the bike rack) and where wind is a large factor. I've commuted on both, however being more upright on a flat or alt-bar is better for visibility. You can be comfortable with either bar, but this usually means you're more upright in either case. Being upright is never aero. It's totally possible to bend your elbows and get low with either bar.
@@SurpriseMeJT
the best thing people can do for visibility is to use actually appropriate clothing, lights and reflectors. A lot of roadbikers, especially, seem to have some kind of vanity related to that which i never quite understood.
I have a drop bar road bike and hybrid bike with front suspention and flat bars. Each has its cons and pros and I enjoy them both. However for windy conditions road bike is a winner.
Looking to buy my first bike and stumbled across this video. Very informative, thankyou!
Tried out a drop bar gravel bike recently on some fairly loose gravel. When I got up some speed and saw some loose stuff coming up I started wishing I could reach for my flat bars!
Another significant point is that flat bars cause the rider to tense their arms and shoulders, gripping the grips, putting their weight on the arms rather than supporting it with the back, and this transmits more road shocks to the body and is more tiring over long distances. The elbows also flare out, which as you mentioned creates more wind resistance. I have a road bike with drop bars, a winter bike with a flat bar, and a city bike with a flat 15 degrees sweep. Each has its strengths and applications, nonetheless I feel the most relaxed with the drop bars. That being said am eager to try flats with a sweep of 30-45 degrees to see if a relaxed posture is possible with them. As you noted there are a lot of choices out there, but interestingly they are almost never OEM on a new bike, only an aftermarket replacement.
I do a lot of urban commuting with the occasional weekend riding trip.
For my situation, I found that typical flat bars make side mirror strikes more likely when weaving through traffic and fewer hand positions made longer trips a bit more uncomfortable.
All said, I enjoyed the video.
Yeah, I find flat bars are easier on my back but harder on by wrists, because I'm stuck with only one hand position.
You missed one point, descending in the drops on tarmac offers far more stability in fast corners. I’ve a flat bar bike and two drop bar bikes and on a local descent I cannot take the corner at remotely the same speed on the flat bar bike. I’ve also tested swapping the wheels over and the result is the same. On the flat bar bike I tend to drift across the road. Other than that I agree 100% with what you said. 👍
the drop bar position let's you lean your weight on the inside of the turn, directly on top of CG, it's very stable, flat bars will go all over the place.
10:15 I did exactly this with my bar ends that were originally placed at the ends. It not only improved handling significantly and is more practical (not getting stuck at other parked bikes and getting the bike more easily into a car) it also gave me two additional grip positions: Firstly, the more aerodynamic and ergonomic grip that is mentioned in this video, that should only be used in open spaces where you can predict that you don't need sudden braking as you cant reach the break levers in this grip. And secondly, a hybrid grip where you grab the end bar with thumb and index finger and the other fingers still grip the flat bar. It gives you a more ergonomic alternative to the regular flat bar grip while still being able to reach the break levers. Only shifting might be a bit awkward and probably takes a bit longer, but on longer constant speed sections this is only a minor inconvenience. I recommend to give this a try
Spirgrips give you that hybrid hand position where your index and middle finger hold the "horns" while you can still reach your brake levers with the ring and pinky. You can't do a power emergency brake, but for daily feathering of the brakes it works fine. Haven't tried innerbarends yet.
With regards to drop bars being better for urban riding they are better for weaving between vehicles due to the reduced width in general. They also encourage a more aggressive riding style. However your riding position makes it difficult to have good all round vision reducing your safety. In a more upright position you can see better and feel more relaxed (I know some riders don't want to feel relaxed, LOL)
There's also options for less wide flat handlebars for those who regularly weave between traffic. Personally I prefer flat bars for everything except competitive speed cycling.
Personally I don't see any difference looking side to side with either bar or under a shoulder to look back on a drop vs looking over it on my drop bar bike. Actually If I think about it I think I'm am more aware in a lower position because my head is angled down and thus requires a smaller turn to either side to see behind. But also understand, if associating an upright stance with awareness, a drop bar bike rider can get just as upright as a flat bar rider by getting on the hoods or bar tops. Granted, looking around in general will always be an issue for people with neck flexibility issues and if that's the case they will probably prefer the less "aggressive", more heavily-seated position their flat bar offers.
In a flat bar you are way more agile, which makes it better for urban bikes since you need to do aggressive turns between vehicles, trees, people etc. in a drop bar you are slower turning the bike and you have less agility. Drop bars are great for the road only, going just in one single line, to rest for your wrists and have more aerodynamics. But if you want versatility, a flat bar is better
Always very sensible videos. Excellent work!
Such a good video! I've ridden drops since I was 13 so that's just what "a bicycle" is to me now, but my wife hasn't ridden since she was a teenager and wants to start. I know what I like, but don't want to impart my biases on a more or less blank sheet at the expense of her enjoyment, this video is great for helping us choose a first proper bike for her!
As Alee said, they’re both good in different situations. If I’m on pavement and aiming to go fast for a little while, it’s drops all the way. But if I’m doing a longer ride, like a tour, possibly on rougher terrain, I’m using a flat bar bike.
Drop bars offer more stability at high speeds in my experience as riding on the drops allow you to lower your centre of gravity quite a bit. They're also more comfortable because your hands have more positions to change to (and this talking about normal flat bars found in 80% of bikes) and, when on the hoods, they have a more natural position.
As someone who rides both mountain bikes and road bikes I could not disagree more about drops being better at high speed. I find drops very twitchy compared to non drop bars.
@@garyboyle695 I have personally had bad experiences with flat bars and descending at high speeds, precisely because of the centre on gravity being higher. However, riding with my hands on the drops and descending at 60km/h feels far safer than a flat bar as I am able to pull the brakes safely without fearing flying over the handle bars. That's my experience, obviously, and perhaps you have a different configuration on your bikes.
@@AlexanderTanned I think another factor is no matter how steep the grade, the upright and wide posture on flat bar makes you like a kite in the air and your top speed maxes out so that makes it safer in a way. Of course suspension and fatter tires on my mountain bike with slicks also make descents pretty damn safe. Drops feel more exciting because you feel the road more and your top speed is higher. You are more of an arrow than a kite! Plus your 100 PSI narrow tires do roll much faster.
Drop bars have three. In the hoods drops and near the stem.
Flats have three. regular, bar ends, close to stem. THEN unlike drops you can attach TT bars or bar end/cow bars, back handles like some tourers etc. You potentially have 5 or more psoitions on a flat bar and can even add DROP attachments to gain them.
@@AlexanderTanned As you say it must be how we set our bikes up, I always use a much shorter stem with a flat bar which moves the weight backwards and gives you more control.
Love the inserted footage. You do the kind of "mountain biking" that I like.
fantastic video, your channel keeps getting better :)
I cycled long distances touring years ago and my flat bar bikes were my first and best choice for unpredictable tropical climates roads and terrains in the country which I have lived in.
I will add that with the wider grip the pectoral muscles are in the middle of their range while on drops you are maxing their flexion. So, I think thats another reason why riding for hours at a more upright position with flats is more comfortable for long duration riding
@@jamesmedina2062 thanks..it will be great I think..
Within the first minute you discount ergonomics, but thats literally the whole point.
He did say that’s subjective, he was talking about this objectively.
@@michaelb9664 ergonomics go far beyond comfort and as a science in itself has defined objective measures
@@feedbackzaloop but both flat bars and drop bars are ergonomic. The preferences regarding comfort or the overall positioning of levers and shifters between both types of bar are personal and subjective.
@@michaelb9664
Yeah, depends on what you need really. I find that flat bars give more brake control and maneuverability over terrain. drop bars are worse in both those aspects but triumph in terms of comfort in touring and endurance.
@@michaelb9664 here I'm not saying that one is more ergonomic over another, as I personally don't know for myself, and find it questionable how you can make such short, simple, definitive statement.
Point is, one can analyse the handlebar designs with regards to ergonomics _objectively_ and if it takes a scientific approach, this might be the best if not the only YT channel to perform this.
What I can predict though, is that variations within the types make variation between types insignificant.
I was already sold on flats, but this pushed me further into that camp! Thanks for the video!
Excellent summary.
Experienced MTB rider who has enjoyed winter gravel biking for miles but never entirely comfortable riding drops. This video has convinced me to convert to a flat bar.
Thanks/Ride on!
I rode with both, flat bar and drop bar and for me the drop bar is clearly the winner. It's much more comfortable for longer rides but I agree with the harder breaking in bumpy terrain. But I think when you ride on bumpy and steep terrain more often it's not a question of the handle bar any longer but a question of what bike you should use in general. A mountain bike (which comes with flat bar anyways) is the better choice then instead of using a gravel bike or something similar.
10:21 - A roadie Phil in the wild, haha! 😂 Nice find, Alee!
(and for me both: drop bars on the gravel bike and flat bars on the MTB)
Thanks for the comprehensive discussion of the "two" options. I purchased a Merida Speeder 400 flat bar road bike, with 38c tyres fitted. I'm an older (63 in a few weeks) distance runner (any thing from 5km to ultramarathons, although the longer distances are my preference), although I was a cyclist as a teenager and rode with two friends who went on to have pro cycling careers. I was quite ill during 2021 so purchased my bike to stay fit and ride with my 21 yo son on his long runs. The first thing I noticed was significant pain behind both tumbs, so I fitted a pair of tear-drop shaped bar ends and some bar extensions, mounted inboard. These enabled me to grip the bars by hooking my tumbs around the bar extensions rather than under the bar end themselves. This does improve comfort, but I don't feel like I have the same control, especially on rougher surfaces. Given I live in regional Victoria, I'm not sure who to talk to about bar options, what advice can you offer in this regard, particularly as I am considering doing some touring on this or an upgraded bike this year. I do love your content, although your rides intimidate me these days.
I was in the same boat with you. The flat bar's grip just don't have the same level of ergonomics as drop bar. it's due to the nature position of the hands. You might look into the drop bar extension for flat bar or put bull horn or change into drop bar.
SO helpful. and thorough. Thank you
This is easily the best content of its kind. Both here on CZcams and on your web pages. Your thoroughness, attention to detail, and professional presentation are all very much appreciated. Thank you. JP
Wow, thank you! I'm always aiming to be the most thorough on every topic I cover, and I'm really glad to see there's actually demand for it too.
Outstanding analysis, yet again..
Simply the best vlog about cycling in general
I purchased a gravel bike frame design for drops but proudly built it with flat bar and love it
Great analysis, as always. I do agree with most points, but I do find one relevant aspect that was not covered: riding out of the saddle will almost always be more efficient with dropbars because of the more upright position, as a consequence of geometry and distance between handling points. Also, its easier to pull the bars with the upper part of the body with hands facing inside. To get a similar advantage on a flatbar setup will require a much less slacked geo and a really narrow bar with lots of backsweep.
Completely agree on the poor ergonomics of riding out of the saddle with a flat bar. One option is adding innerbarends/spirgrips to your flat bar to approximate the hand position of riding on the hoods of a dropbar.
Drop bars are just way more fun for me
Because you can tuck in & bomb a hill?
Thank you, thank you, thank you, I now know I'm not crazy. I kept scratching my head trying to figure out why everybody was so excited about drop bars on a gravel bike. It makes no sense to me, and if I was trying to be more aerodynamic oh, I wouldn't be on gravel I'd be on my road bike. I feel so much better now, thank you again!
I've tried various flat bars on my touring bikes, tandems and even triplet with tandem trailer. I have always come back to drops, other than for full-on mountain biking (although I did have drops on my Orange P7 for a while). One of the reasons is that the additions necessary to flat bars in order to gain multiple hand positions move your hands away from the brakes. With a drop bar you can cover the brakes from the hoods or the bend of the drop, and if you are on the tops or the extreme end of the drops, you can move your hands back to the brakes with little effort and no body movement. With a lot of the flat bar designs, the extra hand positions are in front of the brakes and often necessitate a distinct body movement to get back to the brakes. I never really felt comfortable, especially on the tandem or triplet, with my hands in those positions, away from the brakes.
A great big wide bar was great on the triplet & tandem trailer combo though. The boys used to swing wildly from side to side, making steering a challenge sometimes.
This is a point I've overlooked! You can technically have control of your brakes from three different positions on drop bars provided you use cross/inline brake levers. I'll add it to the written version on my website, thanks.
I'll take wide bars on my tandem any day, however. My upper body feels noticeably less fatigued after I fit flat bars to my touring tandem!
I can ride on a drop bar bike in comfort for the full day but my arms and hands are literally in agony on a flat bar after 15 minutes. It is that dramatically bad for flat bar for me. It’s the hand position, way the shoulder is turned in on flat bar rather then out for drop bar hoods. Biomechanics? But as you suggest, the flat bar can be drastically improved by adding inner grips or other options to open the shoulders and give a different position to palms down. I then spend all day on those inner grips with my hand and arm in the open position, occasionally going flat when I need more control.
Bar ends are ok for that too but opens the shoulders too wide if the bars are wide. Drop bars have 3 positions built in and flat bars do need additions to make them acceptable. I’ve done multi day all day riding on both flat and drop and for me personally I’ll go with drop bars. Each to their own.
Adding inner grips to a flat bar drastically reduces safety, compared to riding in the hoods on a drop bar, because you cannot easily reach your breaks.
But that's when you enters all the options of "flatbars"
It is a bit weird going back to flat bars after getting used to drops.
When riding my CX bike (I don't have a road bike) and not in an immediate situation where I might need to brake, I am almost always on the tops. I am only in the drops when really sprinting. I have the least amount of pressure point discomfort on the tops. But, I road mountain bikes until I was 30 before I got my first drop bar bike so I could extend my racing season from MTB to CX. I think a lot of what is "comfortable" has to do with what you are used to. I'm most comfortable on the tops, which is basically a tighter flat bar position.
Too wide by default but you can always trim. I used to have some Ergons.. whatever the longest ones are and I cut down my city bike's handlebars to the shortest possible width to handle the Ergons, have mounting space for lights, and my levers.. wish I had measured it before it was stolen but never thought to.. it was still fairly wide relative to drop bars but I'd guess somewhere in the 650mm area which with the right stem length wasn't bad on the shoulders. I had the primary grip, the outer elbow, the main part of the bar end, and a nice 4th position where I could lay my arms on the main grip body and latch onto the end of the barend. I could ride that setup all day and could even get somewhat aero with that last position. It wasn't nearly as confidence inspiring for a climb though and I feel way more secure in the hooks for a fast curvy decent... I definitely prefer drop bars, granted I spend most of my time in the hoods anyway.
Drop bars do not suit urban areas at all, as urban riding requires the handling and breaking reflexes of mountain biking......unless you mean commuting under 20km/hrs. I specifically ride either a Dutch upright or a hard tail in the city.....one slows me down, the other gives me a fighting chance to react at speed.
I don't have that problem riding a fixed gear bike with drop bars and track geometry. The handling is super responsive with it but it also depends on your bike geometry.
I was hit by a car on my road bike about 2 years ago now. I did hit the brakes but they didn’t do much and aren’t that easy to grab quickly. I really feel like on my old specialized rockhopper I would’ve braked sooner and harder and avoided the crash.
This! I gained almost BMX skills when commuting for 3 months in a row through the city centre, residential areas, subburbs, etc. The curbs, the pot holes, start-stop pace, on and off the sidwalks, all to avoid car lanes as much a as possible. Drop bars are risky for that settings. Gravel trip outside the city is another story.
Great analysis but if the longer wheelbase offers the benefit of better stability [TRUE! no argument there] then the alternative benefit is the dexterity offered from a shorter wheelbase. That toe overlap you've cited is actually a benefit in this regard.
I'm a drop bar guy with a bike that currently has flats. The algorithm knew I was struggling with my desire to make the switch. Thank you for this epic piece of bike knowledge.
I have bikes with both options and ride them equally, I use the drop position very seldom staying in the hoods mostly but I will admit my average speed is slightly better with the drop bars that keep me in a more agro position.
Shorter flat bars in urban settings for braking power and the lower speed stop and go nature of urban riding lends itself to a less tucked position.
Buildings often provide wind protection you are not going to get in the open.
Very useful video! Been considering switching from drop handlebars, to a different system, for some time, now. Thank you!
You make a compelling argument. I ride both styles, and enjoy them both equally. The drops on my Awol are super comfy, and I have a hard time picturing it with flat bars. My Sirrus X is great with flat bars, but I almost need more options for hand placement than standard flat bar. Thanks for the vid...I've got a lot to think about now...
If you apply a weighting factor to each of the arguments, going faster and looking cooler are going to high on the list. For me included.
Yeah, going faster for same effort, going at the same speed for less effort, and being able to fit through narrower spaces (like congested traffic!) are, in my experience the most important factors for the majority of people, who might be commuting or cycling for fun in cities and suburban areas. Bikepacking is more of a specialised niche area with its own needs.
The other problem for me with drop bars back when I had a road bike was that I was too stiff in my neck and struggled to keep my head up on long rides to see where I was going. And yes, the older brands definitely cling on to drop bars for touring bikes. They even use old style levers in some cases.
that has more to do with the height of the bars than the shape of the bars. If you are bent over flat bars, and there are mountain bikes with aggressive riding positions, you'll still get a sore neck.
@@jonathanho4272 Yeah. I tried a Brompton with the flat S type bar and that felt extreme for me. But in general, road bikes are far harder to find something more relaxed and comfortable for me.
Great analysis. Thank you.
Excellent as usual! Hmmm, up til now I'd never given flat bars a second thought --- now I'm no so sure...
This video made my day
This kinda seems to me to be more of a riding terrain rather than bar type comparison. Primarily paved road riding (drop bars) vs every other type of terrain (flat bars)
Well this is the second objective analysis video of yours that has been suggested to me that I have watched. At this point my only option left is to subscribe because this is some genuinely fantastic content. As someone who is looking to purchase an expensive E-Bike in the near future to get back into biking, this is the type of deep analysis I need to help me determine what bike best suits my needs. Thanks!
Super informative. Thankyou
Another excellent and informative video, Alee. I agree 100% with what you said. I don't know if it's some sort of cycle snobbery, Emperor's New Clothes, or what, but there are several current standards that I can't understand. So many bikes sold don't fit the needs of an average cyclist - from geometry to gearing to dropped handlebars. I used to love ripping up the road on my Colnago Super Mexico years ago, but for anything off-road, dropped bars just feel so inappropriate.
I've been using SQ Lab inner barends (which I notice featured a couple of times in your video), and find they are great for assuming the same position as being in the hoods on dropped bars. Good enough to achieve a more streamlined position for long, flat, tarmac sections.
Thank you for mentioning the name of those barends, I was trying to figure that out.. I like the angle of them and think they might work better with a swept back bar vs other barends I've tried. I really like a barend position which is either neutral or slightly pointing inboard which is easy to get on standard flatbars but not on the swept back type. There's the GC-1 Ergon grips that Alee suggests with his namesake handlebars but that doesn't give me a barend, which I'd want inboard of the grips anyway for that "riding in the hoods" feel.
inner barends is one of the silliest word constructions ive seen yet.
Lets just call them horns, something which is not at the end of a bar cannot be called barend.
@@Exgrmbl maybe when you've designed and patented a unique ergonomic component and are selling them internationally, you can give your invention a more sensible name. 😉
@@davidrowe8747
fair enough. I guess it really is not any sillier than clipless pedals which you clip into.
yeah, yeah, but for any ride of serious length (say 10 hours+) I ride drops and maybe even tri bars as aero savings over such time/distance can really add up and I have multiple hand positions to choose from (including the "flatbar" at the top)
thank you for good comparison. it is very informative. I've been thinking to change my flat bar with drop one, but now I've changed my mind )))
Excellent and objective analysis! Thank you!
I have drop bars on my road and touring bike and a flat bar on my mountain bike.
I hear what you are saying on some of the advantages of flat bars over drop bars, but personally I prefer the drop bars for 2 reasons: better in windy conditions and I don't get numbness in my hands, which I do with flat bars.
I've talked shit about flat bars forever.. can't believe you managed to change my mind.
Wow, you hit on basically every factor I'm considering in a bike I'm designing which will be designed around a unique bar design. Thanks for getting these ideas out there.
So, did you ever get to finishing up your design?
@@necromax13 I've tried dealing with a number of different companies both for the custom frame and the handlebars. I have to admit that it is such an overwhelming thing to manage between the money, the engineering and the quality control that I'm trying to use my industry connections to convince a brand I like and trust to do something with my designs.
Great video. Kinda makes me want to build a hardtail with aero bars for an all road tourer
As allways it really depends on what type of riding you do. Personally most of the flatbar pros don't really effect me and I much preffer the handpositioning on dropbars. Though I gotta say I only switched 3 years ago and prior to that I allways had flatbars.
It's great to see how much variation we get nowadays in both types of bars.
Agreed. A lot of the points in this video cover cycling on rough terrain & unpaved roads, where drop bars do not fare well. In this scenario, you'll usually be cycling in an upright position. Flat bars will be more suitable.
For road bicycles that will be used on paved tracks, roads, high speeds, with fewer expected stops at traffic lights, pedestrian crossings & stop signs... drop bars fare better.
Really interesting video, and I agree for touring and bike adventures I would always prefer a bike with flat bars. Separate gear and brake controls are a lot easier to source or repair than one complete integrated shifter should it get trashed in transit or after an accident. Prolonged down hill braking on rough terrain with a heavy load is more sympathetic on the hands and wrists. Having raced, time trialed on the road and also undertaken off road endurance and touring I'd opt for flat bars on a touring/ adventure bike any day of the week. Beats me why manufactures produce mtb based/ adventure bikes and then put drop bars on them with integrated cables !!!!
I always had flat bars, but I got a drop bar ~year ago.
I like to use my flat bar bike in the mountain, but that chill I have while im riding my drop bar is priceless.
I ride an mtb mainly on city roads so have 600mm flat bars with bar ends, great control, not too wide and a variation of hand positions so perfect for me.
I think its a stretch to call those loopy swept back Jones bars "flat bars". Those really belong in a third category.
Alt bars.
They are just Dutch 'bird wing' bars. With an extra top part and therefore a hole in the middle. Nothing special about them here in the land of windmills.
It’s funny how things come around. Looking at an old Schwinn cruiser from the 70’s or any other of a thousand examples in the past, they had what we would call now flat bars with a high sweep of 30 or more degrees. For riding relaxed in the city, instead of in a death grip on a mountain bar with your elbows sticking out.
They might not be "flat", but none really are. They use flat bar components which I think puts them in the flat bar category
I would just add that when you aren’t in a race, flat bars with more upright position offer more natural air ventilation which is very important riding bicycle in summer. Also flat bar with a slight back-sweep offers the most ergonomic hand position. In a city flat bar more upright position offers better visibility over traffic, and enables rider to perform sudden manoeuvres which in a city riding means more safety. Flat bars hands down is a winner.
Thanks for the video , I've noticed your bar has no rise ,but it does bring the bar closer to you I'm wondering if this is enough to stop neck ache , I'm anxious to rise a bar too much as this will put too much weight on my saddle ,& after having a prostate operation I've been told to put more weight on my hands & feet ,I was using a raised Jones loop bar , any advice would be welcome .
Informative video, but conflicts with my own personal experiences based on over 50 years in the saddle which includes many centuries and competing as Class III-IV in my much younger days. I've found flats okay for short rides, but prefer the varied positions offered by drops. I don't do off-road, so factor that in. Ride what works for you and enjoy your ride!
Drop bars are the best for racing in a smooth road. Flat bars are the best for mountain bikes, long travels and all terrain especially gravel roads.
Can you please make a Video about pros and cons of Tubeless Tires
What a great video. I wish I found it earlier, but the title is misleading. It should be "Why flatbar bikes are better...". There is so much good info on deciding between a flatbar bike and a drop-down bike.
There's one more point:
Flat bars offer more ground clearance! 😉
Yes but on the other side they are normally far wider, had a few flat bar riders complaining of clearance issues in access gates and single lane bike bridges
FINALLY!!! A flat bar review I can agree 💯
Your knowledge and unique view on cycling are absolutely marvelous! I'm starting to recognize the view in the background. Don't tell me thats your back yard?!
I really much like my bar end shifters. They allow you to use regular touring gears, are more robust and cheaper. Also you can then use special levers for v-brakes then.
Personally I prefer riding with flat bars. Having spent 47yrs riding with all types of bars I just have more fun with flats. Each to their own though, and I can definitely see the advantages and appeal of drops too.
Riding in dirt with drop bars feels like running in high heels.
I can do it, but it always feels awkward.
Flat bars are like trail running shoes, they do everything decently well.
@@marcalvarez4890 thanks for the laugh, we used to joke roadies are gay.
@@andrewnorris5415 Well i don't know if it matters one way or another, but i am gay!
Lol.
Really great video, a lot of the reasons I’d thought about too. As for her reason drops are more popular, I think it’s really that people want to look cool, not like a newb.
In my neck of the woods, cool is flat bars.
I totally agree. I myself bought a drop bar gravel bike and the primary consideration was that I didn't want a flat bar for my upgrade. It worked well too, but you're totally right - there would be other people that think like I did and never even considered flat bars on merits.
Hi,I’m interested in riding the Europeandivide in 2022,would a BMC alps challenge 01 be okay?Or should I buy a more purpose built bike?
Interesting clip. I'm riding a 2009 Long Haul Trucker and I'm interested in changing out the stock drop bar to a flat bar. What's your favourite bar?