Europe vs USA - Why Are Tow Ratings So Different?
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- čas přidán 8. 04. 2020
- Why does the same model "tow more" when it's sold in Europe? In a nutshell: speed limits and tongue weight. Want the detailed answer? Check this out.
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I find it frustrating that manufacturers in North America say that small cars CANNOT tow anything, even a small utility trailer for DIY projects etc.
It means that you can't sue them for putting 500 pounds of tongue weight on a car that has max tongue weigh of 150 pounds and something breaks. It means that you can't sue them when you roll your car and 3750 pound trailer with 150 pound tongue weight at 85 mph. It means that you can't sue them when you tow 3750 pounds without any sort of brakes because the car doesn't come with a electric trailer brake controller and the brakes on the car give up and you fly off a cliff in the mountains. It means that you can't sue them.
Which is ridiculous. People tow Everyhing with hatchbacks and wagons here. Including campers. If it is rrally heavy then it might be a van and incredibly rarely a pickup truck, but not some oversized abomination like f150, rather Nissan Navara or Toyota Hilux.
Yet they do it all the time in Ireland
I love your videos, but there’s a fundamental difference between “towing ratings” in Europe and the USA that really needs to be highlighted.
In most of Europe, your tow rating is part of your registration paperwork. Exceeding it can get you immediately pulled off the road and cited. It’s legally impermissible to drive in this situation.
In the USA, tow ratings are for warranty and entertainment purposes only. Exceeding them is not against the law. Axle, tire and GVWR limits are law.
The result is that a low or zero rating in the USA doesn’t significantly detract from sales. It makes no difference to your actual ability to tow. In Europe, it legally prohibits you from towing, so the numbers are much more important.
Good to know.
"Exceeding them is not against the law" I never knew that.. good to know... off to buy a boat with my 2 door wrangler!
May not be against the law in the US, but if you get into an accident while exceeding the tow rating, good luck with your insurance company.
I don’t think electric trailer brakes are normal in europe. Most trailers have mechanical overrun brakes.
I even believe that electric brakes are not even allowed in the EU.
Correct. Anything over 750kg/1600lbs has to have a mechanical/hydraulic overrun brake and a breakaway wire that automatically locks the wheels if it jumps off the hitch.
great video as always, I would like to clarify some things about towing in Europe:
- Towing a large trailer may require a different driving license: If the charging weight of the vehicle+trailer exceeds 3.5 tons (7,716 lbs) a certification is needed (B1 or B+). If it exceeds 4.25 tons (9369,6 lbs) a license type BE is needed.
- 7:00 in France, in order to drive a car with a trailer at 130km/h (81mph) on the French autoroutes, the maximum authorized charging weight of the car + the trailer combined must not exceed 3.5 tons, otherwise the speed is restricted to 90km/h (55mph), regardless if the trailer is charged or empty. That can be checked in the registration card (Carte Grise) of the car
- In Germany a car with a trailer can travel at 100km/h (62mph) if the trailer has a derogatory note issued by the TÜV stating that it has passed its inspection for use at higher speeds
- In the EU, trailers over 750kg (1,653.47lbs) must have brakes by law. If we take your example of the Volvo V90, its towing rating without brakes of 1,650lbs is under the 750kg limit by 3lbs.
Long story short: in Europe you learn to drive. In most US states it feels more like just do it (warning: may include sarcasm)
@@alphonsbretagne8468 That's better for the US. Safety isn't the be-all and end-all.
@@checkers7166 it means car companies have to be responsible for us, instead of trusting driver's to be responsible for themselves.
For 12 years (up until 2 months ago) my daily driver exceeded the 3.5 ton limit by itself (Ram 2500 crew cab diesel). The replacement is ordered and it weighs 8,500 lbs empty (F450 Crew Cab). Add in my smallest trailer which is a 30' enclosed that weighs about 3,800 lbs empty, and I am at 12,300 lbs with nothing in the truck or trailer. That's not a lot of weight, but it is still far over the limit for the Euro B1/B+ license.
The Ram didn't even know that the enclosed trailer was there when it was loaded to around 10k lbs. At 14k lbs trailer weight I was getting close to payload limited. Fixing that with the Ford.
In EU pretty much all trailers without brakes are up to 750kg. And pretty much all cars here have 750kg limit for trailers without brakes.
Also electric brakes are not as popular as mechanical brakes (as soon as trailer starts to push the vehicle trailer brakes apply).
Smaller or even medium size cars won't be permitted to tow a trailer with 750 kg total weight without brakes.
For example a CLIO 3 has a 600 and 900 kg permitted trailer weight without and with brakes.
A Megane 2 will have 650 and 1300 kg permitted trailer weight without and with brakes.
A Golf 5 will have 680 and 1500 kg permitted trailer weight.
With these cars you allowed to tow a trailer with total weight of 750 kg only if it has brakes.
Personally I have hever heard of electrical brakes used in the EU for trailers up to 3500kg (I live in the so called eastern EU though).
When I was a kid, my dad was assigned to West Germany (yes, it was that long ago) . We had a Volkswagen Bug (a real one) and my dad had to take his leave all at once every year. My mom is a professional tourist - no cathedral or castle or museum is left unvisited. So we went camping every year for 30 days. We had a trailer for the bug - it had one caster wheel and was locked to the car with two ball hitches on the back bumper. Just goes to show that Europeans can be very different when it comes to trailers. The only problem was that the small aircraft tire on the trailer seemed to go flat a lot. I remember sitting with my mom and the trailer on the side of the road south of Madrid for a day while my dad found the third replacement tire for that trip.
This is an excellent breakdown, thanks for putting all the information in one place. One thing I will add is Ford does state that they use J2807 to calculate their tow ratings for all of their vehicles, even for the Lincoln sedans.
Thanks Alex, Please keep the educational videos flowing. Your RAV4 Hybrid towing video was a near #masterpiece.
i guess Im kind of off topic but does anyone know a good site to watch new tv shows online ?
@Jerome Lochlan flixportal :D
@Jordan Keith Thank you, I signed up and it seems to work =) I really appreciate it!!
@Jerome Lochlan Glad I could help =)
Excellent explanation Alex, keep these edu vids coming!
Wow! Thank you for this video and all the time it took to compile this information.
THANK YOU FOR THIS!
You can tow with 62 mph /100kmh in Germany too,needs just some "special" requierements for the trailer. Don´t know for the rest of Europe
love the videos. I have a 2019 Rav4 Hybrid and just recently bought an Aliner Classic camper which I decided I would be fine to tow (even though slightly over the US tow rate of the Rav 4 Hybrid) because of your videos and the information I took away from them. I am adding a transmission cooler to help but do not anticipate any issues. Thank you
Hey, I am thinking of doing the same with my ‘23. How has it worked out for you?
Could you share what transmission cooler you want with?
I love these informative videos!
I feel like when there is no discernible reason the US limit is lower, it usually means the US automakers are trying to encourage the sale of bigger *higher margin* SUV and Truck models.
this is why cars like the Equinox got downgraded in towing once the Blazer was released.
Alex, could you mention payload, towing capacity when you do the reviews even for cars? Maybe add then in a slide similar to the one you use for vehicle sizes.
In Europe any trailer with a gross weight rating over 0.75 ton must have brakes, most commonly mechanical overrun brakes are used.
Having trailer brakes when towing with a smaller vehicle makes a huge difference, stopping with a 2500lb trailer with brakes behind a vehicle with a similar tare weight is much easier than with a 1000lb trailer without brakes behind the same car.
That 0.75 ton weight limit for an unbraked trailer is regardless of the vehicle towing, even when it is a full size truck.
In some countries in Europe a top speed of 62MPH is allowed when the car/trailer combination meets certain standards, you have to get your vehicle combination certified in an approval check and you get a certificate when the test is passed.
A damper between your tongue and hitch is one of the conditions which apply, the others concerning vehicle/trailer weights, trailer tires etc.
Very clear and highly informative. Thanks. It's interesting that Subaru Outback's seem to have a much higher towing rating than most vehicles in their class. No Outback has a rating of less than 2700 pounds and the XT model has a rating of 3500 pounds. That is considerably higher than most Rav4's or Honda CRV's. Based on the information you provided in this video, I can begin to speculate on why the Outback's tow rating is so high, relatively speaking.
And Outback is pretty much one of the last station wagons that sell, it just poses well enough as SUV and isnt affected by chicken tax and other stupid issues that make all other imported wagons very expensive.
I LOVE this! Alex you are the best, period! I always figured or guessed it was more about Lawyer BUTT coverage from US Lawyers and/or the US divisions of global manufacturers. I had noticed this with several of the 33 vehicles I've personally owned in my young 50 years. ;-) Just like our 2002 EuroVan Weekender (which had the VR6). I had to get my VW hitch from Germany, because VW America would not sell it. The brochure in Germany or the UK would show the VW California towing a two (2) horse trailer.
Also in the past, one of my best friends who was the Viper & Cummins mechanic at the local Dodge dealership...he had mentioned how most manufactures put cheaper and/or "better riding" passenger tires on lots of their smaller SUV's and even "Trucks". Pretty, much most of my Tundra's (2000, 2005, and 2011) and my '97 Cummins...I would take off the stock tires and put on Michelin LTX M/S 'E' load rated tires.
My wife grew up with horses (same age as me 50 now)...Anyway, her dad was an Oregon State Trooper with a 1957 Ford 150...and they used to haul a camper and a horse trailer everywhere. I remember I used to look at that old Ford and think Mmmmm (seems that would of had to have been danger rolling down the road). So anyway, I'm not trying to promote folks ignore their ratings...and obviously there would be legal repercussions if (Lord forbid) something did happen on the road. But I still think older parents or grand parents who worked on the farm would think we are crazy now days.
Just like I've owned nine (9) SUVs and "Trucks" including our most current Honda Ridgeline. I took the Ridgeline's inferior Firestones OFF at 191 miles and put on Michelin LTX M/S (NOT E Load but more of a "Truck Type" tire)...and we've towed a Malibu Response LX Competition Ski Boat with a tandem trailer that got up to 4,500 lbs. w/Camping Gear, and it tows just fine, even close to its Max 5,000 lbs capacity. And it gets 16.4 MPG doing it too...compared to any of our past rigs ('94 Chevy Suburban w/454; '92 Ford F-150; '97 Cummins; '99 4Runner; 3 Tundra's mentioned earlier; a 2013 Tacoma TRD Sport and our 2017 Honda Ridgeline)...guess I did not included my '08 Toyota Highlander or the '07 RAV4 V6 in my thinking of the "Nine (9) SUV / Trucks. But still, this Ridgeline "feels" like it would tow as much as our 2011 Tundra Crew Max...but I've stuck to only towing under 5K...even did one run with a cargo tandem trailer (weighed at the station @ 4,900 lbs and it went up and over Mt. Hood then back down to the Willamette Valley...and got 16.1 MPG (again I hand calculate every tank at the pump on every vehicle we've ever owned).
Anyway, just LOVE watching you...you are always right on the money!!!
Thanks, that is a lot of very helpful information.
@@rightlanehog3151 Thanks for the kind words Right Lane...all encouragement is acceptable and appreciated at this organization! :-) Hope it helps other, too. Continued Blessings!
I haven't seen an electric Trailer brake here in Europe ever. This technology is unknown here. We got mechanical override brakes for everything that havier than 1500 lbs, sometimes on special equipt tow SUVs you can find the same hitch that is used for Semi and the same a pneumatic brake system.
But again, electric brakes and Trailer brake controllers are unknown here in central Europe.
In some cases (depends on the weight of the trailer, the weight of the Vehicle the brakes, tires and shock-absorbers of the trailer) you can ask in Germany for a legal speed limit of 62mph for this Trailer (and have a sign at the end of the Trailer to show it (100) )
I have personally been overtaken by normal Sedans like BMW 5 Series pulling a small 1500 lbs Trailer with more than 130 mph on the clock on the Autobahn.... most likely because the driver was used to drive 130 and just has forgotten after some time the existence of his Trailer. ....
Mechanical override brakes are known as surge brakes in North America. For the most part, they're terrible. They surge and upset lighter tow vehicles. They're fine for very light, infrequent towers, but electric brakes work much better. They're not that complicated to have installed either. I don't know why they would be "unknown", or why you'd have to jump to pneumatic brakes which are totally overkill.
Actually there is trailer stability systems mostly on caravans. I had it on mine when i had one 5years ago. Its like ABS system.
@@GameOver556 You are right, there are retrofit solutions by Al-KO and LEAS using the mechanical springs as the power source from the mechanical override brakes and of cause, the Vehicle's ESP is programmed to recognize a trailer and react to stabilize the trailer. but still no electric brakes, no brake controller here in europe. (and 90% of all accidents with trailers because of to little or no load on the hitchball)
Thanx for sharing this.. could you do a video and explain why car headlight regs are different here vs other countries. what we have and what they get maybe. Thank you.
Because America is left in the dark ages...
Great video. Nice lamp. I learned a lot, and that’s why I watch.
Coincidentally, the Statue of Liberty is missing HER lamp. ;-)
-- BR
I wish I’d seen your video two years ago when I bought my RAV4 Adventure. I wanted to do some camping with a trailer, but I simply could not find any straight forward information about what kinds of limits I should be looking at for both trailer weight and tongue weight, or anything else that’s required. Toyota’s manual for the Adventure was no help, and trailer salesmen were of little assistance either. In the end, I’d still like to purchase a camper. The other thing missing from any information I looked at was speed limits for pulling a camper. Thank you so much for providing this. The Adventure has a towing limit of 3500 lbs, and I wanted a camper of no more than 1500 or 1600 lbs. Can you list some references for how I should purchase a camper based on the safety recommendations you’ve given here?
Most rv axles are rated to 63mph. Check this before you tow!
These videos are better than the car reviews.
I mean, with current situation, its difficult to review cars
Hello Alex, Could you advise how the tow rating of the Sequoia has reduced over years. I thought it was always per this specification.
Lol speaking of golfs ...
With that in mind ...I use the euro guide lines and specs for my vehicles..
Otherwise my gsw can't tow a thing .. according to my local dealer .
Yet in Europe my wagon can tow close to 4k lbs ..
My suggestion is to use common sense .. drive like a semi truck .. keep big following distance , pre trip your vehicle and trailer.
Drive like a grandma.
And above all .. don't exceed your vehicles curb weight without trailer brakes .
There's the problem of insurance if you exceed your rating and get into an accident.
Europe has different trailers when it comes to hook-ups and brakes. In this case, “different” means better.
Stay off the highways.
@@afcgeo882 speed limit while towing is 50-60 miles/h in europe so there is no need to have massive tongue weights to stabilise a trailer at high speeds. surge brakes on trailers so no need to have electric trailer brakes and controllers for them including the wiring. mk VII golf variant has max tongue weight of 150 pounds. In europe that allows for max tow weight of 3750 pounds because no one is going to drive 75 mph with that combination. In america someone will either put 500 pounds of tongue weight on a golf and break something or have the max 150 pounds of tongue weight on a 3750 pound trailer and roll the combination at 85 mph when it starts to sway or tow 3750 pounds without any sort of trailer brakes and fly off a cliff in the mountains when the brakes on the car give up AND then sue the car manufacturer. So they get told that you can't tow anything so you can't sue us when you do something stupid. Also pick-ups have bigger profit margins so win-win.
Why do decibel ratings vary for interior noise levels between AoA and other reviwers?
As always excellent video and explanations. There is one thing that's not really true though and that is, that they don't have a similar J2807 standard. The European ratings are with and without trailer breaks and are listed with a max 10-12% grade for the breaked rating at least in super regulated German ;-). This is likely true for all of Europe, since they have these values printed in the European vehicle registration cards that apply to all countries.
Hi Alex, so if I have a 2019 Rav4 hybrid and a 1750 pound trailer (maybe 1900 with stuff inside) and a class 2 hitch, I would be ok? I’ve been told I need to change vehicles like the Highlander…
In Germany it's standard 80 but you can increase it to 100 km/h. But great video, thanks.
Thanks for this! I thought it was all transmission and brakes
Thank you! I'm considering a RAV4 (and possibly a Hybrid) for towing a 1700 lb trailer. So the Hybrid, Adventure, and TRD will work for me. Liking your videos very much! I appreciate the details you provide!
Have you watched his RAV4 Hybrid towing video?
@@rightlanehog3151 Absolutely. Twice actually! 😁
@@JonLabbe There;s another coming up, a "towing torture test"
@@AAutoBuyersGuide Amazing! Thank you so much!
@@AAutoBuyersGuide Will there be a tasteful sprinkling of incidental music like there was in the last one?
Alex, where to get the same watch as on the table?
That flower lamp should have its own chair.
No VW Golf can tow 5000lbs in EU. Maximum tow rating for the current Golfs is 2000kg(Alltrack) and that’s braked because every trailer over 750kg has to have brakes.
Also electric brakes in EU aren’t common at all, if not outlawed in some states.
Germany also has 62mph. But like in Denmark you have to get a approval and your trailer is Going for vehicle inspektion every 2years to keep the 62 mph. I have a Hyundai ioniq plug-in with tow hitch and approval for 750kg with brakes. Not possible in the US. Difference is mine has upgraded brakes and cooling from factory.
Btw in most European countries you have to have a upgraded drivers license with additional training if your car and trailer weighs more than 3500kg.
Europe takes driving more seriously than the USA and Canada.
@@rightlanehog3151 not sure About that
Very informative video and greatly explanations. Side note: where did you get the clock on your desk? It's really cool
If I drove a RAV4 hybrid
What about importing a car from the US that has lower tow cap there? Will I be able to tow the American or European towing capacity? (since it will have an American VIN)
I think this video is showing that the vehicles are basically the same, but the official tow capacity of the area varies by the environment you are driving in (EU with more trailers with breaks, lower speed limits, etc = you can safely tow larger loads). I'd assume you just look up the EU tow capacity of your vehicle model
@@sjoyce4824 here in Germany what's written in the vehicles papers is what's important. One can maybe get it officially rewritten but just looking up and towing the capacity of the EU model would be illegal.
In the US, fees also have a lot to do with towing limits. Every truck has a GVWR that dictates its hauling and towing capabilities to some degree. Just as an example, every 3/4 ton truck in this country is classed at 10,000 GVWR for titling, registration, and classification fee reasons. As we know there are so many different configurations of 3/4 ton trucks yet they all get slammed into the same category. For this reason, their payload and towing figures will always be dictated as such because they don't want any of their 3/4 ton trucks exceeding that 10K figure and getting pushed into a higher bracket of fees and expenses. On the plus side I think this system keeps us more conservative with what we tow and probably keeps us much safer.
This is more of a different topic since this class of truck isn't really sold to the "average Joe" in Europe.
That's different in each state also. No extra fees where I live.
@@AAutoBuyersGuide but you can compare the Nissan Frontier (we get it as "Navara") and the Ford Ranger (you gett it severely watered down).
The tow rating of the 2001 Jeep Cherokee is 5,000 pounds in the US!
4,993.47 pounds is the UK rating converted from KG! So the allowable legal rating is actually slightly higher in the US for the jeep of that year!!
Payload is important for towing. Why is there no standard method for calculating payload (e.g. GVWR - curb weight)? My Durango RT has a different figure on the vehicle sticker (1200 lbs)
Yes in the US that's how it works. GVWR - your specific vehicle curb weight. Which is why even vehicles of the same model have different payload capacities, because each one can be had with different options and do not weigh the same. If you want to know the exact amount of payload you have left, as far as the manufactured ratings go. just go to a truck stop with a cat scale and weigh it. Then take your GVRW - that weight.
The Toyota hybrids have a handicap when backing up a grade when compared to conventional transmission drivelines. The hybrids cannot use engine torque at all in reverse. All reverse torque is provided by MG2 and MG3 (for the AWD variants). Anytime the internal combustion engine is running, it can only apply forward torque to the driveline, thus all reverse motion is driven by the electric motor(s). This severely limits its power in backing up a slope and may be one reason Toyota limits their hybrids to much lower towing weights.
The EU stds are less restrictive vehicle-wise but more restrictive speed-wise and trailer-wise, which seems to allow greater versatility from std road cars. If you're an occasional light-duty tower, not needing to buy a second vehicle or bigger vehicle than you otherwise need is a plus. However if you live in the US or Canada, your stuck buying bigger regardless of how often you actually tow. Safer, yes. Wasteful, perhaps.
At 11:41 Alex says the Volvo V90 T6 AWD has a towing capacity of only 2000 pounds. I am interested in that specific car (2017) and I came here looking for an explanation of the low max tongue weight. The Volvo website says that car is rated for a braked trailer towing capacity of 3968 pounds and tongue weight of 242 pounds. I don't know where Alex got 2000 pounds. However, to me, a maximum 242 pounds of tongue weight means a maximum of 2420 pounds of trailer. www.volvocars.com/en-eg/support/manuals/v90/2017/specifications/dimensions-and-weights/towing-capacity-and-towball-load
I have been pulling a 4x6 utility trailer on my 2008 Mazda 3, Manual 2.0l, going 65mph (1500 lb and 200 lb tongue weight) to pull my motorcycle, dirt, large pieces of wood or insulation and gravel on occasions. I live in the Appalachian mountains and can feel the weight when going over a pass.
To this day, I still own the car, and never had driving nor transmission issues due to the trailer. I enjoy my 33 MPG (mostly Highway) when using the car (vs a pick up truck or SUV), but the MPG goes down to 25 MPG when using the trailer.
I am now looking for a replacement for my Mazda, and my next car better be able to accept a trailer hitch, as I still have my trailer to use.
As many have noted, there are fewer and fewer cars these days officially rated to tow at all. I do some towing with my manual 05 Pontiac Vibe though I live in a flatter part of the world. If I was willing to give up the manual transmission, I would probably go for the RAV4 Hybrid as my top choice for high mpg with decent tow capacity.
@@rightlanehog3151 very good choice on the RAV4 hybrid.
@@asterixky That's the reason I hassled Alex for months to put a tow hitch on his long term RAV4 Hybrid. He said he has another RAV4 towing video coming shortly . I thought the first one he did on RAV4 Hybrid towing was excellent. BTW you can now buy a RAV4 Hybrid make in Kentucky which is not too far away from you.
Alex, I like your alien cocon-like table lamp.
Hmm.... I've never seen a trailer with electric brakes. We have those with the mechanical brake. When you brake, the connection pushes on a rod which then activate the shoe brakes using fluid. But it is mechanical. And I don't think many actually stick to those limits. Most cars are towing 2000kg (4400 pound) caravans at 120km/h (75mph). These will be things like the Ford Kuga, Peugeot 3008, VW Tiguan and even Jettas and Corollas etc. But then they are all only diesel. Petrol ones don't have enough torque.
In North America that's known as a surge brake. I've heard of them, but I've only seen one once, so they're not very common. There are also hydraulic systems, but when it comes to trailers with brakes, electric brakes are found on the vast majority of trailers pulled by half ton pickups and smaller vehicles.
@@AlaskaErik Interesting. I didn't actually know that's what it was called. But have never seen an electric brake. We pull a 3300 pound 3 sleeper caravan and it has that brake. I noticed that as long as the weight is mostly in the front part of the caravan, it is very stable. We use a 2 litre diesel Peugeot 3008 (front wheel drive) or a 2 litre diesel C Class (rear wheel drive) to tow it. On both we get about 24mpg towing at about 72mph.
I've seen ads for electric trailer brakes in every car magazine I've read.
We are desperately looking for more information on the real life power of a 20-21 Hybrid Highlander for towing a small travel trailer. ( dry weight 1900) With the 4 cylinder and lower HP than the last generation 6 cylinder hybrid we wonder about power. We trust the 3500 towing capacity would be sufficient in general, but could we still drive 55+ mph uphill on the highway (for example) Is it fair to compare it to your Rav4 test driving up to sierra summit (where we live)? Or does the much increased weight of highlander mean that we might be dragging uphill. We travel in the mountainous west a lot.
We appreciate your work so much. Thank you.
I am planning on towing the same weight trailer with my Lexus hybrid, which has 3,500lb capacity. I had the same worries. I joined a Facebook group for my car and saw a lot of people regularly tow with theirs, one in mountainous Norway with even heavier trailer. It seems that as long as you are mindful and not overdoing it, it should be fine. We were looking into maybe getting a highlander hybrid as our next car in a few years. Did you find any other info on this?
I have chaos with Tea as well, my phone fell in tea already twice, because i make big cup to drive every morning...not...not that it is relevant to tow ratings though
"...the damn test..." lol
What about a 2012 civic sedan pulling a small harbor freight trailer
loaded with a CRF 450 Honda dirt bike?
I think there may have been a mistake around the 2:50 mark about parking brake hold. That it would be using the actual parking brake instead of the parking prawl. It would simply break holding much more than the vehicle itself on a hill. Especially on a truck holding 10k+ on a hill. Or it seems that way to me, but do correct me if I’m wrong though.
And what about payload capacity? US version have lower allowable payload (pass.+lugg.) than EU version.
Could be the drivetrain difference since us version have "bigger" engine, hence more weight and lower payload if same platform
In Austria we can tow with 62mp/h.
Hi Alex, very informative video. Not sure if it's down in the comments, but I've always wondered why the Tesla Model 3 (weighing in at over 1840 kg) only has a Braked towing limit of 1000kg. Compared to my BMW 435D (weighing in at 1760kg) having a limit of 2000kg, but I stick under 85%, so I tow a 1450kg caravan. Would love to tow my braked caravan with a model 3, but alas, 1000kg limit won't allow. Interesting how you say that car manufacturers rate towing for different countries, even though it's the same vehicle. Wonder if Tesla could re-certify the model 3 for europe, and have it tow up to 1500kg?
Towing limit is not all about safety but about drivetrain as well.
I think tesla does not want to risk to be responsible to a lot of warranty battery replacements.
@@poormansdiycorner that was a while ago. 😀 I’ve got an i4 now. 1600kg limit. Sorted. 👍
Tow ratings in the US were higher about 21 years ago. For example the 2001 jeep Cherokee has a tow rating of 5,000 pounds. The same sized jeep now would have a tow rating of about 3500 pounds.
The tow rating standard (SAE 2807) wasn't around 21 years ago. Manufacturers started adopting it in the 2010s.
Does this explain the relatively low tow ratings of minivans in comparison to similar crossovers? i.e. The sienna at 3500 pounds and the highlander at 5,000 pounds despite both vehicles having the same engine and residing on the same camry platform.
That has more to do with payload, suspension, cooling and curb weight differences. Suspension accounts for a great deal.
@@AAutoBuyersGuide Ah, ok. Suspension, I somewhat understand, but how are the sienna's and highlander's suspension set up differently? Also, I would expect more curb weight to be better than less as is the case with heavier pick up trucks, so does the sienna being heavier hurt or help its tow rating?
Thanks
@@darienmiller1032 My guess is that Sienna's suspension is set up differently to reduce the impact on passenger-space in the Sienna.
Looks like Ausralia is verry conservative when it comes to towing especially ball downward weights.
Thank you! Mine can tow 3,500lbs and I'll be towing 3,000lbs around western mountainous US while living out of the trailer for a year. I was worried about destroying my car, but spoke with some Europeans who tow more that than. I think if I am mindful and not speeding then I'll be okay. Thank you for the clarification!
What’s wrong what’s going 55 mph, saving fuel & just generally taking your time?
I only clicked on the video because of the Touareg in the thumbnail lol.
I figured our manufacturers in the USA just want to sell bigger gas guzzlers or it was draconian regulations. Just came back from Ireland. Was blown away watching little vw's pull these big trailers.
Yeah... Explain the 2000lb tow rating on the Cherokee Trailhawk 2.4 versus the 4500lb tow rating on the V6 when the old XJ was rated at 5000lbs and realistically is less powerful (due to gearing) than the 2.4 Cherokee Trailhawk.
Same springs same transmission , same cooler , same frame etc.... The ONLY difference really is the engine. Same brakes , same tires etc.
Same thing... I wouldn't blink towing a little over 2000lbs with it.
On top: Misleading info in video due to not understanding required trailer braking system requirements in European markets...
Commenting on things from video that i have opinions on (European perspective):
1. Parking tab/clip on P mode: That is not mean to be load bearing for use in parking situations. Parking brake is the only brake you are supposed to use when parking.
2. Lot of unnecessary information; In Europe we have completely separate driver's license class & training for license to tow over 750kg. In there you are trained & tested on proper loading, weight balancing and operating of the trailer.
3. Trailer tower drive the limit or slower? Yeah, that's absolutely untrue. Some drive the limit and most drive faster.
4. Trailers in general are very different in USA which affects the tongue weight & issues cause by them. Here in Europe trailer of over 750kg HAVE TO HAVE BRAKES. Most of them are done with simple push bar which engages brakes when trailer starts to push at the car. Having brakes on the trailer itself greatly reduces issues cause by the heavy trailer trying to push the car and it also negates the sway effect reasonably well if driver is awake.
5. ^^^^ Just to point that out again! +750kg trailers HAVE BRAKES IN EUROPE. Completely misleading info in video!
Very few people in North America that have automatic transmissions use the parking brake unless they have a heavy trailer attached, and quite a few don't even in that situation.
A 750kg trailer would be considered to be extremely light weight here in the US. A large toy hauler may weigh 25,000 lbs/11,000+ kg when fully loaded.
The type of brake that you described is usually limited to smaller trailers, and is actually outlawed in some jurisdictions (Washington DC for example). Since each state sets their own rules the requirements lack any kind of consistency. You do only have to comply with equipment regulations for the state that your vehicle is tagged/registered in. Usually any trailer over 3,000 lb GVWR will have brakes on every wheel and a 7 pin connector that ties in the tow vehicle's brake controller.
Any chance you will do some kind of wine channel?
I have thought about it, but it never got off the ground...
@@AAutoBuyersGuide I'd love to see it! I'm definitely a wine person. There's something that I'd love to know your opinion on- I agree that Mazdas would do better with a different transmission, but what do you imagine would be best? An 8-speed, 9-speed, or 10-speed?
Imagine Alex drunk...
@@hogzilla1171 Parteh!
A breaked trailer should actually be able to help improve the breaking of a vehicle!
My cx3 says no towing at all, but in Canada you can tow 2000 pounds, it makes no sense.
How about talking about family-oriented trucks? ;-)
I've seen someone tow a uhaul with a mustang...
I worked at a gas station that rented U-hauls 40 years ago, Pintos were pulling trailers with bumper mounted temporary hitch.
Why's that noteworthy?
D Tay I’ve seen someone towing with a Chevy Sonic. That thing is tiny. Granted the trailer was also tiny but still that doesn’t inspire confidence
@@AkioWasRight you don't think that's a tad bit strange?
@@dtay8913 Not at all. I've seen people tow U-Haul trailers with Corvettes and Priuses. U-Haul has a wide range of trailers for all types of vehicles.
Do manufacturers have to right to say you voided your warranty if you exceed the tow rating even by a hair?
How would they know?
If they can prove that the damage was caused by exceed the rating, yes, but how do they do that?
@@nukewiller4083 they test to cars in production to see what tow loads will damage the car, and if they see that type of damage, they will already know how far you can have exceed the tongue rating before causing said damage.
Wow... super interesting. I wonder if weather also has to do with the tow ratings. Most of Europe is cooler than most of the USA. I can't think of an equivalent to Death Valley, for example... or Texas for that matter. Interesting that it appears that culture plays a role. Also interesting that you mentioned towing speed limits. Does Europe POST their speed limits?
While driving in Washington, I was towing a trailer and travelling in the HOV lane. I got pulled over. The officer told me that towing a trailer is not allowed in the HOV lane. He mentioned that I was going over the speed limit (coming down a hill... but still) and that especially when I'm towing a trailer, I should keep to the limit (which is 70)
He gave me an HOV violation ticket and let me off the hook for the speed, but I didn't know that there is also a 60MPH speed limit (I don't live in Washington). We were also towing a small 1000lb trailer with a 5000lb tow capacity vehicle, so it wasn't overweight.
Additionally, culturally speaking... I was told that in the US, if the weight limit is 3500 lbs for the vehicle, we'll typically think nothing of just going over and not worrying about it... or not accounting for the load IN the trailer... whereas Europeans are (generally) more conservative and strict about not going OVER the weight limit.
Because diesel. You can get diesel on cars like a CX5 or smaller cars even. A C Class or Toyota Corolla with a 2 litre diesel engine tows most caravans just fine.
That really has little impact on this. When VW diesels were widely available you saw the same differences
@@AAutoBuyersGuide Interesting. But diesel is soooo nice. It really transforms a car. The previous generation Corolla for example. They generally have very outdated naturally aspirated 1.8 or 2 litre engines. And at higher altitudes it's just so ordinary. But with the 2 litre turbo diesel wow. The torque makes it feel like a whole different car and even segment since it pulls with urge. And modern diesels are so clean. I hope they make a big comeback. None of the hybrid complexity while still getting excellent economy (even when towing), torque and huge range. My uncle is still getting 56mpg in their older diesel Corolla. I get 46mpg in my E350 Bluetec. Nothing can beat a diesel. I think it's simply the best way to propel a vehicle.
@@SDav21 I agree with most of your points, but a modern diesel is anything but simple. No plugs, true, but required emissions equipment has forced engineers to design very complex systems to meet standards, from EGRs to NOX filters. It’s not your dad’s diesel, in more waysnthan one.
Max tow rating is the most useless, meaningless and irrelevant number there is when it comes to towing. It is a bragging rights number, and nothing more. Try towing something right at that weight limit and you'll be exceeding the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating, the tongue weight limit and payload capacity. When someone tells me their vehicle can tow X amount of pounds and they quote the max tow rating, I immediately know I'm dealing with someone who is clueless about towing.
Would you rather recommend a CX-5 or Subaru Outback? I plan to tow 3500 pounds max
Actually the reason is.. they forgot to convert from lb to kg, and kept the same number.. 1750lbs ... 1750 kgs
With a 5,000lbs tounge weight rating on a heavy duty truck I should be able to tow a semi trailer in Europe, right?
NIAtoolkit You could pull quite a bit.
You could tow like 150,000lbs.
Git yerself a 15 axle heavy haul rig and pull it with your F350 dually. 😀
This is all interesting but really what it comes down to is: North America is more litigious than the EU. This is not a technical problem.
My vehicles are never going to take that damn test!!
RAV4 Hybrid battery can get drained under extended continuous loads, while towing. Could the lower towing capacity just be based on its smaller engine?
Since the electric motors wouldn't be able to contribute in those extreme situations.
Did you see Alex's RAV4 Hybrid towing video?
Thx... But why did he ignore that factor in this post?
@@nc3826 I don't know but he talked about it a lot in the other video.
@@rightlanehog3151 I know I watched after you mentioned... and he basically stated what I was talking about... so thx...but it's just strange he left it out here...
I think in Europe the overall weight also a limiting factor.
Yes, that has to do with the weight limit on the driver's license. A normal car driver's license allows people to drive vehicles of up to 3.5 tons, and that applies to car-trailer combos as well. So tow vehicle plus trailer (fully loaded) may only weight 3.5t at most. If you want to drive a vehicle that exceeds that or tow a trailer that would make the combination exceed that, you need to add a special trailer license to your driver's license. But since most people don't need that and driving lessons are expensive (at least in Germany - and you HAVE to take driving lessons, you can't have your dad or whoever teach you), that is not very common.
Incidentally, that 3.5 t weight limit is also the reason why almost all of the European RVs are so tiny - since most people only have a regular license, RV manufacturers make RVs that are lighter than those 3.5t. That being said, a lot of the RVs already have a curb weight that is not far off those 3.5t (perhaps only a couple hundred pounds or so), so if you actually load them up and put a family in there, they are over that gross weight limit and therefore technically not legal to drive. It's quite ridiculous.
If you're referring to GCVWR (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating), that's also applicable to towing in the US.
I wonder if the low tongue weight in Europe is linked to common towing with FWD vehicles...
A high tongue weight tends to lift up the front end, reducing traction and steerage. In a FWD vehicle that produces an extra constraint of reduced pull.
No. High tongue weight is needed to stabilise trailers at high speeds. In europe max towing speeds are usually in the 50-60 mph range by law. 15% tongue weight is needed to keep americans from rolling over their tow vehicle-trailer combinations at 85 mph because the trailer started to sway.
@@blegi1245 Then just drove 65 mph & don’t make sudden corrections with the steering wheel! Also don’t slam on the brakes. Unless you have a breaked trailer
Is it likely America politics try to promote larger vehicle sales of SUV & trucks? And or the caravans getting so big in US? People have been using regular cars for ages in Europe but caravans are much more practical size as well.
Imagine thinking that eurpeans only tow with v90 and golfs...
Another possible explanation for the difference in trailer tow ratings may be lane discipline. Europeans generally know to drive in the rightmost lane for cruising (or the leftmost lane in the UK). Far too many of my fellow Americans do not seem to know that, compromising safety. Case in point: look at the inset video of the RAV4 pulling a trailer.
Well done, you caught Alex.
In this ..case.. it was passing test, watch the actual video. Also watch some speed tests on autobahn, you'll see some cases in point before you talk down on other nations, after all we are all same humans with built in arrogance
@@tallll70, that was an awfully long bit of passing. Also, please explain what you mean by, "talk down on other nations," and the "arrogance" to which you refer.
The passing was longer on the original video actually, but the video does not show many things to judge the whole situation, it does not show driver's speed, the speed limit, not even that driver is maybe in flow of obviously consistent faster lane which is maybe already going little over speed limit in passing process Then again, driver was trying to perform pass test and there was possibly no one behind...With talking down i meant the condescending way to address all, when I spoke of arrogance I meant that all countries have people who will do sometimes arrogant things, actually I think that we all have some arrogant levels, then there are many reasons why it is manifesting..... Look no hard feelings, of course I see so many people sitting in the left lane almost like they want to block others, but in the US I see also plenty moving away just like they do on the Autobahn
Before clicking, I just assumed the European version was diesel.
It’s all about the Benjamin’s. We can sell bigger trucks that burn way more gasoline, $$$ thats all.
I have an 08 Jeep GC and it has a 7200lb tow rating (4x4 hemi) but only 1120lbs +/- 10 of payload, so 300 in passengers, 70 in cargo and 720 in tongue will cap you right off. Newer ones thankfully have closer to 1400lbs in payload but for the older ones its an issue. The Chevy Traverse and all the C1XX platform vehicles from GM have ridiculously high payloads, all in 2000-2100lb range, so you can haul a family and their rated 4000-5000lbs with ease provided the 3.6 can actually handle 11000lbs GCWR. Last thing is if you're towing over 1500lbs and going over 65 you should have your license revoked because at that point its just dangerous. 75mph over 65mph is a 15% speed increase, and with that 15% time saved (9 minutes per hour) your fuel economy will be down 30-50% and your vehicles total stability will be drastically lower. No one will be upset with you for driving slow with a trailer, everyone will be if you lose control and cause a major accident and hurt people and block traffic.
Edit: The Rav4 hybrid likely has different wheels/tires as well as different suspension and the extra weight of the battery and rear electric motor probably eat into the tongue weight. The vehicle is capable of 3500lbs in the standard AWD in north america.
You shouldn't chastise people across the board for towing over 1500lbs at speed limits without knowing what tow vehicle they're using.
I can pull 30k with my dually all day long at 70mph because it was built for it.
1500lbs isn't really anything for most vehicles. 5000lbs isn't really anything for most half ton pickups. 10,000lbs isn't really anything for most 3/4 ton pickups. You gotta get heavier than that before it's really even felt behind you, let alone a hazard.
A factor you didn't touch on is lane discipline. In Europe, people are considerably more likely to keep right except when passing. Towing, or just driving. North America has the pick a lane, any lane approach. This often includes minivans in the centre lane going slower than the flow of traffic.
Traffic flows much smoother and safer when better lane choices are made.
Agreed.
People drive on the left in Europe.
@@zachsheffee8458 No, we do not. At least not universally.
Left hand drive traffic in Europe is only in the UK.
Haven't watched the whole video yet... is the answer lawyers?
No.
@@AAutoBuyersGuide Great video and explanation of the subject. thank you
It kind of is though in a roundabout way. Lol.
In Africa if your car can pull it, you tow it. Also we can ride a pick up truck at the back without seatbelts. There are no rubbish ratings and silly laws. We are freeeee!
🤣
Haha the CC on this are butchered
I think all pick-ups should be required to be factory wired for trailer lighting and brakes. Trucks are one of the most durable goods and very likely in its lifecyle to be used for trailering. Factory installed standardized, no manufature having a proprietary system, would add utility and safety for everone on the road.
Most Chevy and Fords are equipped, my wife's Traverse only needs a pigtail that connects to the trailer wiring and addition of a few fuses to the fuse block under the hood. But as you said, it is not standard, it would be nice to just buy the pigtail that could work on any make and model.
Using 6 to 8% tongue weight is sufficient at low speeds! 55 mph is the max speed you should be pulling a trailer at!
6 to 8% tongue weight is not enough to put the combination in a sufficiently damped condition. You will probably get away with it at 55 mph, but the fact is that you are prone to constructive interference and oscillation. That's not a problem when towing a log splitter with a truck, but towing a 20,000 lb trailer with an 8,000 lb truck can be a different situation entirely. 10% tongue weight is a minimum and 12 to 15% is preferred for conventional towing. These percentages should be higher for bed mounted hitches.
Alex! You asked for suggestions, so how about this? You sometimes do a video with one of the other CZcams channel guys. How about doing one with Scotty Kilmer? ☺️
Steve Printy, oh, brother.
Alex would need to a have restraining order filed afterwards.
I wonder how hard it would be to import a euro caravan/camper to the US.
If it's 25+ years old, not too difficult; otherwise it isn't happening.
Stephen Jeffcoat Damn so it would be part of the 25 year import law too.
Probably not hard if you wanted to partially kit it.
Why is that toyota tower a left lane hogger? Get on the right lane!! FFS america, learn 2 Europe and drive on the right
It makes zero sense that models sharing exactly the same platform, engine and transmission get completely different tow ratings depending on the bodystyle in the US.
There could still be cooling differences. For instance, the Subaru Outback has a bigger transmission cooler than the Legacy.
And what vehicle is that?
I believe it's marketing and weird cultural factors. Planning to tow with my sedan and people are calling me suicidal.
Tow slowly...
@@AAutoBuyersGuide absolutely!
What sedan? I guess it depends. If there is weight closer to the front it shouldn't result in much sway.
I was told it was because of emissions
Jim Bo It isn’t, at all.
So.....basically it is marketing and nothing to do with capability? That makes perfect sense.
Yes. They want to sell higher profit margin vehicles. Pickups are light in the rear end and are not good tow vehicles unless you use a fifth wheel.
Safety and speed limits.
@@AAutoBuyersGuide Safety maybe. What you see in EU is basically smaller car/truck than in US doing "almost" the same job. You guys love your big truck and I do get it, but not all the world can afford 18-20 mpg vehicles. In other hand, most of the mid to heavy haulage is done by contractor truck not by yourself.
I think it’s more about different standards applied in Europe vs the U.S. The standards in Europe allow you to tow heavier trailers, but you must drive much slower, 49 - 55 max, for safety reasons. For the U.S. stricter standards come into play, which make vehicle manufacturers legally responsible to avoid law suits from loss of life and property.
Kevin Peffley The minimum speed on the interstate is around 45 mph. Most small SUVs can easily tow 2 tons at 45 mph.